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Value Add Podcast - From Zero to 9-Figure Portfolios! 🚀💎
Unlock the anatomy of success in real estate!
Welcome to Value Add Podcast - where we break down the ingredients needed to build real estate empires. This isn't just a podcast - it's your roadmap from scarcity mindset to abundance mindset!
🔥 What we do here:
• Unlock secrets of buying buildings with no money out of pocket
• Study the psychology of success and mental blocks
• Break down real cases from bankruptcy to financial freedom
• Learn to turn distressed assets into money-making machines
• Build passive income through value-add strategies
💰 Our guests are:
Former teachers who built 8-figure portfolios in 5 years
Young entrepreneurs running $100M+ portfolios by age 36
Artist-developers creating unique spaces that command premium rents
Investors who went from bankruptcy to luxury flipping
Mentors and coaches changing lives through real estate
Host: Rafik Moore - the guy who runs 5M+ sq ft of commercial real estate
🎯 For those who want to:
✅ Quit their salary job and jump into real estate
✅ Scale their business to the next level
✅ Invest in continuous growth and education
✅ Become a bankable asset for investors
✅ Build generational wealth
We believe: If you can find a deal that makes money - we'll find the capital! Because the hardest thing to find is the asset that generates profit, not the money.
Hit that subscribe button and start your journey to financial freedom right now!
many artists are starving I sweat paint colors like no one's business I was old and tired and needed everything what year was it that was 2007 the world was rolling apart I had no idea what I was doing you're going to lose a deal I said that's fine tell me about the failures yeah haven't had any no no fail at all every building we touch we leave better than we found I can't be the lowcost provider what do what have I got I've just got cheap space right so what buying it with no money out of pocket that's an art that I subscribe to and I love that
[Music] game welcome to Value ad investing podcast my name is rafic Moore and we here have uh Peter Remish the CEO of First and first on our podcast here today value ad investing podcast is about is a podcast on real estate investing into value ad deals we'll have guests here that invest in real estate or um help us in investing in real estate this podcast will feature a lot of CEOs of companies like ours and many other people in the industry who will bring their different experience and uh outlook on value ad investing which happens to be a really good uh uh uh industry to really make money in real estate so welcome to the show uh thanks for coming uh of course yeah Rafi great to see you you happy to be here so um Peter is a very well-known developer in um in Minneapolis and uh he's been in the industry for what 20 30 years now uh not quite that long yeah more like uh about 15 what's unique about Peter's expertise is actually brings a artistic flare to his buildings all of his buildings look so amazing they stand so differently from the rest can you tell us about your strategy yeah my strategy is I not unlike you I'm looking for opportunity in the industry identify old warehouses buildings that were built maybe in the Victorian era 100 years ago or so that have been fallen out of their original intention they're probably built for manufacturing or some similar type of use and they have been either ignored or forgotten or converted into storage uh kind of a low-level use those are the properties I find intriguing from a value standpoint and also from a potential revision standpoint being able to buy those buildings take them and uh sort of scramble the the deck if you will and be able to really present them to the community in a way that looks completely different from where I started and the process is is very involved um I take basically a raw shell and then I started applying my my vision and my um attributes that I put Infuse into a building by uh trying to get the right tenant mix the right balance I kind of curate my tenants very selectively and then I put a lot of thought and a lot of time and and resources into creating a look and a feel in the common areas and creating a vibe in the building so when you when you're in a first and first building it kind of stands alone from the rest of the of the inventory that's out there in the marketplace we have a very unique approach in terms of our design and Aesthetics uh so when you walk in there I'm it's really about a physiological response that's what I'm trying to get to I'm trying to get you to have a reaction when you walk into the building so you walk reaction yeah when you feel something like there's something that's going off in your neurotransmitters where you're saying to yourself you may not know what it is you may not know even what you're feeling but you're feeling something and you want to be there your your curiosity is sort of it's Uncorked and you're feeling like wow this is amazing hopefully uh I want to explore I want to spend time here I want to see what this is all about um there'll be a lot of things on the wall that you may or may not understand there are you know works of art um that are engaging intriguing provocative and and just overall uh will will sort of trigger some sensory activation of your sensors rather in your brain that will keep you feeling like this this is an interesting thing what I'm experiencing and you will pay 20% more than anybody else for the same square footage or maybe double that's that's maybe um that is part of the uh the process of just trying to build an environment that is uniquely its own en environment and one that really resonates with you as an entrepreneur that might want to land there and least space but one that is feel gives you the opportunity to really express yourself as an individual and creates an environment that's sticky for your your staff your employees they want to be there they feel it's something that they respond to hopefully in a positive manner and really gives them an opportunity to feel welcomed and I guess an environment that they they don't want to leave they want to be there what's very interesting about your approach and I've worked with a lot of artists unfortunately many artists are starving you know why yeah because they only use the right brain which is uh artistic brain and they don't really utilize the left brain which is really mathematical logical sense and when they go on their Limb and if it most of the artists except for Picasso were so poor broke and so you are you kind of combine both the hustle of being an amazing entrepreneur with the artistic expression that makes your building so amazing that's what I found fascinating about your approach and I'm definitely learning a lot as I you know we do little similar properties our properties not as um amazing as yours but that I'm going to be taking a lot of notes and hopefully you can collaborate in the future yeah no that'd be exciting for sure no I appreciate that uh we work really very hard at trying to create this this balance if you will of Aesthetics and um whatever you want to describe it as an atmosphere or or vibrations that you feel when you walk into the space um it's not something that we take lightly we don't just throw things up on the wall and hope it all kind of works together I sweat paint colors like no one's business I will repaint a room or a wall or a common area four to five different times if I have to before I finally get to the you know the place where I feel it is the right match I have you know I've been in the art world my entire life I have a lot of relationships with artists galleries um you know museums I've served on many boards I do understand the art world and I know that the by creating that balance by creating that energy and that that uh environment that is successful it's really at that point about transformation about you walking into a space and being able to be feeling transformed from where you once were and that is a bigger topic a bigger um curiosity um you know some people call it Transcendence some people call it transformation but it's real and if most if if more developers understood it they would pay attention to it I think we would live in Barcelona if they did perhaps yeah have you been yeah I have yeah I love
it so uh question why first and first um first and for I uh about 12 13 years ago I bought a building right on the corner First Avenue in First Street and uh it's a building formerly uh housed Arya The Event Center which I owned and operated and I just felt uh first and first resonated it seemed to be almost a a spiritual calling if you will like yeah like this this seems to be the right fit it just came to me one day and I thought why not and we um used a very talented uh design firm to come up with a logo group called fellow based here in Minneapolis highly recommend them and um that's how we got started with first and first so um when did you start your business and um what inspired you to focus on Industrial I mean you could have been an apartment guy you could have been an office guy I guess why why warehouses yeah I mean I've had a little bit of apartment uh uh inventory in my portfolio a little bit of of off maybe actually quite a bit of office sold a bunch of that about six or seven years ago but it wasn't so much of a feeling of inspiration it was a feeling of lack of inspiration where I was looking around in the marketplace you know I've traveled to numerous markets uh many you know super cities throughout the world and I would react or or be inspired by what I was seeing in the marketplace buildings that really had an interesting energy about them when they were very focused on delivering something aesthetically something very purposeful and beautiful into those buildings and I couldn't find much of that in this market in Minneapolis and I I thought to myself you know why don't I just I'll start by buying one in Northeast Minneapolis in the arts district and landed on one uh over on the corner of Van Beren Street in 14th Street it's about 42,000 square feet uh old Warehouse former owner had a business in there and he had sold the bu business was now selling the building so was old and tired and needed everything what year was it that was 2007 oh perfect timing yeah the world is rolling APS right it was yeah exactly I'm sure I overpaid for it in hindsight but anyway that was my launch into uh what what I'm doing now in terms of uh yeah Urban um adaptive reuse fairly recent less than ESS than 20 years ago yeah so it was a interesting chapter I had no idea what I was doing I didn't understand the I I I didn't know what a cap rate was I didn't know what rentable usable was I didn't really understand any of that but I did know what I wanted I did have my my sites on creating an environment or creating a building that was going to be uniquely suited to the to the marketplace and um struggled to get through the building or get the renovation completed but did finally was able to uh complete it and delivered it to the market oh gosh 2000 I think it was around late 2008 horrible timing couldn't have been worse everything was falling apart had some success with leasing it got through 2008 n and 10 and then was able to kind of get on stable ground and started to look at other opportunities within the marketpl the first project as you well know Rafi I'm sure is the most difficult one I mean it's your learning curve the one you're going to pay your dues on and as you progress in the industry and move forward with different projects and add more to your yeah you get more efficient you understand how things are are done in in a cost effective manner you start to develop relationships with your favored contractors and be able to you know work with them so it it just yeah gets a little easier so as you you've obviously been been very successful and you''ve uh uh transferred multiple properties when Peter Remish looks at at a historic building what are the things that attract you outside of local spaces yeah to it what will make your buy or no buy decision for those of us who are you know selling properties Brokers or wholesalers and whatever what excites you and and why I love buildings that have got great historical bones to them I mean we don't build buildings like we built them 100 years ago I mean just the the architectural features the the the grand spaces the incredible volume um just these architectural nuances that have been kind of lost to modern-day technology and and building efficiencies warehouses today look very different than what they look like 100 years ago right exactly those are the ones that I find inspiring um and and really intriguing and the ones that really sort of get me excited about what I'm able to do with them in terms of Reinventing them and presenting them in in a different way what gets you excited on these projects the vision the capital the the finished product you know I think is really I think it's for me it's about transformation I'm really interested in that topic whether it's a human being whether it's a building whether it's an idea but the idea of taking something that has been either forgotten or neglected and has just sort of been left for dead and being able to reinvent that in a completely different way to to take the context or the the feel of that building and then to represent it have go through the go through the spend the time and energy resources to go and recreate it and then present that to the neighborhood the community the world in a different manner when it's when it's um when you're finished to me is very exciting I don't get me wrong economic return is really important I borrow a lot of money from Banks and they want to know that it's going to be paid back as I completely understand but what's equally exciting is is really the psychic dividends being able to have people really light up and and get excited about the space that they're in for me is really fulfilling one of the biggest challenges I faced in my lack of in my artistic approach or so desire to be artistic is The Balancing Act between Aesthetics and the fundamental numbers because obviously you have a warehouse building you got a limited bud yeah 20 bucks a foot well anything artistic is so expensive right and going through buildings well this is where my question is how do you balance the functionality and the Aesthetics in what's your approach um you know it's not a a a formula that I work through or I I don't have like prescribed budgets to say I'm going to spend you know $100,000 on different art installations in the building it's more guttural or more intuitive where I just feel like if this is the right thing to do for the building I always say do the right thing for the property for the building whatever that means in terms of the Improvement for the building and I found that almost always reaching or stretching or or or or spending the money to Eng Engage The Artist or to have the the installation completed or installed in into the building almost all I can't think of a circumstance where that didn't pay off I can't think of that where I thought to myself oh I shouldn't have spend $50,000 on doing that that was a waste of money uh it didn't work out or the response wasn't there almost always I can only think of like wow that really exceeded my expectations on what that was going to deliver in terms of the response and why people want to land there and look it's all about you can boil it all down to math right I mean but you're a developer you understand math very well right you have so much money to spend you buy a building at a basis you have so much money to spend to improve that building you can't overspend because the building doesn't work right so what you're doing is you're competing against the marketplace everybody's doing the same thing is a commodity right what how is your building in any way different than his building MH maybe it maybe it is maybe it is the only thing you can gym maybe it's got a podcast Studio maybe I mean those are important amentities obviously what I my Approach is a little bit different I try to create culture an advanced culture I want to be someone who's pushing culture forward because culture creates community and when you create great Community you now have an ecosystem and an ecosystem wants their own like-minded people in it it's like a club think of it as a club in you way not that it's exclusive it's very inclusive creatives want more creatives in their Club so if I create the right environment where I've gone out and established taken a building that was forgotten and built an environment that now is resonating with them and is is supportive of the art support of what they're up to and I'm not just speaking it I'm doing it I'm putting on the walls I'm embracing artistic ideas and culture what more could they be asking for they want to be there and they're going to be there because they can't probably find that anywhere else anywhere
else so 17 years ago you decide to do this and you absolutely kill it question number one have you had any challenges and obst stacles that cause you a lot of pain and had you kind of failed in this cuz it sounds like you're killing it and every projects you've touched have been amazing so have you have any failures and then I also want to back it up with a different question but uh tell me about the failures yeah I haven't had any no no failures at all was like too many to count too many to count no of course yes constant I I call them affordable failures all right um you're still standing yes exactly the name of the game right yes what's the biggest failure boy to to to datee you know we've run into environmental issues on a property that all of a sudden you know out of nowhere we the the contractor comes up with something and it's a half million dollar environmental issue that's got to be paid for and we've already been through the process we're in mid-construction so we've got to move forward it's got to be dealt with it's got to be handled we have to write the check to pay for it um we've had construction things not go the right way uh we've had contractors I'm sorry dealing with old buildings right exactly things that you know it's uh I don't know what um something structurally that had to be dealt with or uh roofs are a constant thing that we have to deal with exactly there's just always something there's just it never ends there's constant struggles it's really to me more of a of a a practice of just you know absorbing the issue dealing with it finding the right people to take care of the issue and then moving forward and keeping your eye on the Target or the goal of what where I'm trying to get to cuz if if you're of you know not of the mental mindset to take this on and deal with the unexpected issues which are going to come up I wouldn't encourage anybody to do it because it's there's nothing nothing goes in a straight line in this industry it's really complicated very challenging but also incredibly exciting and dynamic and fun and again there's to me nothing better than seeing something that was completely forgotten or just you know doesn't show up on anyone's radar and being able to transform that bring it to the community and not only does it just benefit me as a as the building owner or the tenants but it it starts to really generate green shoots of opportunity for the neighborhood you start to build something and all of a sudden you've got a building now that is you know offloading these these these Community into the neighboring spaces and that's how things get started in and that's how neighborhoods get started and take get traction and all of a sudden they become the next Brooklyn the failures in my opinion have been kind of defining my path and and uh and and many many times I felt like maybe I'm in the wrong path maybe I'm the wrong industry but I also realized that the way we deal with failure determines our level of flight and the harder the failures we Face the tougher we get and um I almost feel like the higher we SAR as individuals as entrepreneurs as Business Leaders and so um when you talk about all your deals going smoothly I'm like there got to be some kind of an issue deal I don't think I've ever had one that went like particularly smoothly I mean but no property has completely failed like I I've sold two properties last year one of them you tore it 1701 yeah uh I lost 250 Grand on that not and I was mentally exhausted from that property it was appraise of 3.5 million I sold it for 2.5 cuz I was just tired of it I was like forget it no you get fatigued you're like you don't want to have to revisit that I understand I was like I don't want to deal with it's too small there's a lot of bigger stuff going on and I might take a little haircut but it's just taxing and I couldn't refinance it I couldn't get my money out and with the sale I lost $250 but the million dollars I got out of it I was able to redeploy elsewhere and whatever I think that was the right right choice for you yeah so uh I guess I'm not the only one not at all so um so 17 years ago you were what 45 4 that yeah and uh out of nowhere you launch yourself into a Comm commercial real estate career who is pet Peter Remish before first and first and how did you come up with all this artistic uh uh experience yeah I think um the Arts is just has been something that's been kind of a a a passion in my life centered in my life for a long time I think most of us grew up as a kid making art and doing you know expressing oursel ourselves creatively and then probably ran into someone as an adult uh at the time that they were a child who said oh you're not that great at that you shouldn't do that and they sort of reset our our thinking or Engineering in our brains to say okay let's focus on on objectives goals and efficiencies and and productivity as opposed to creativity creativity yeah andm I I don't separate those two I think they go hand in hand I think that uh creating a renovating a project to me is as much of an artistic uh Endeavor as it is a a business Endeavor or a a goal or an objective to a place to get to I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it or if I didn't have fun in the process along the way um I I could I would never take on a project that was just a straight I don't know um a boring strip center not to be critical of the category I'm sure they're amazing but I love those there's no artistic expression there's not not that there couldn't be not that there couldn't be and somebody will figure that out but I think you know look if you look at Society you look at our our you know the way we were raised in last couple of generations it's all been about produ ity and efficiency and you look at the office building that was built Office Buildings spaces rather excuse me that were built in the 60s and 70s and ' 80s and '90s it's unbelievable it's unconscionable it's a disaster what were they thinking really you got to stick these people these Cube Farms give them a computer and let them go to work and suffer every day of their lives that is unbelievable to think look back on that now that's gone today that's no longer a a practice in in modern day office environments or culture but I think that thank God that that has evolved to a point now where people are able to go to environment most people maybe not all obviously but people are able to go to an office environment and really feel immersed in something that can activate their brain and activate their creativity which is much more of a solution orientation or solution driven U method for for solving problems as opposed to just being regimented in this space where you've got really no physical space to operate in collaboration isn't really encouraged and you are just stuck in what you do that to me was um again a product of the post-industrial uh Revolution and we wanted workers to just gr it out 20 years prior to you starting commercial real estate yeah that's basically take you from 25 to 45 yeah what does Peter Remish do on a daily basis and how did it get you ready for a real estate career um before so I um my senior year in college I had the idea of starting a billboard company and I put together the concept wrote the plan for doing that had no money no real idea how I was going to do this but um was able to just scrape together a little bit of money from a sympathetic grandmother who felt sorry for me I think and I was I got started I had a friend who owned a a very small machine shop in St Paul and I would use his machine shop in the evenings and fabricate these Billo components to be able to build a sign I physically go out there at a little pickup truck go out there dig the hole round up a couple of buddies and we'd physically install build the the sign the billboard in the put the pole in there and put the uh apparatus on it and raised a sign face up and it was like Stone Age level of construction but it got done and then you sold it and U yeah I would rent it out yes exactly so I I started very super super modestly super slowly I was a 23 years old at the time uh built that up uh went through I had a there's a the dominant dominant billboard company in the marketplace at that time was a company called nly Outdoor Advertising they were the largest privately owned billboard company in the world happened to be headquartered here in Minneapolis I got involved there were some things that they were doing some nefarious activities they were trying to do to put me out of business so they were competition very much so yeah I got involved in a crazy uh law suit against them suing them for antitrust and torous interference which went on for about four years so it felt I got my law degree during the process we ended up litigating or or working our way to litigation I should say and about a week before trial we settled the case and um the pager yeah I uh they awarded me about 150 of their Billboards and paid my legal fees you actually took over 150 Billboards from them nice congratulations worked out that made you you were 23 at the time or was I was 2 was started um I let me think about this I was 20 25 when it started and I think by the time it I was wrapped up I was 29 wow so four-year battle and 150 Billboards that's a huge win for 25-year old kid worked out didn't feel like it at the time because it was so I don't know if you've ever been in litigation or not but there's nothing fun enjoyable about it it's and that that said I feel like I got my law degree going through the process it was very very difficult uh they had obviously a monster Law Firm on their side they money didn't matter you proved that they were doing some yeah we worked out it worked out really well and in my favor and once I got out un you know uncoiled from that litigation I was able to focus on on really running my business and I spent about the next 10 years identifying small Market billboard companies throughout the Midwest I bought about 10 or so uh companies I would clean them up bring them in modern day technology to the operations many of them hadn't really you built this company and then you exited the company do you uh uh are you at Liberty to disclose how much you sold the company for before you got into real estate it was it was uh it was a nice deal was eight figures um you can let your mind for well here's the thing when we so everybody knows you in town right yeah we have to add some numbers and you don't have to answer those questions but the the um success of our Enterprise everybody likes to story of like numbers and whatever so I I might ask you what is the size of portfolio like you know 300,000 feet what is the size monetary size of your portfolio you can just say you know 100 million or whatever those numbers will like on a national level cuz here you're a celebrity but nobody knows do in let's say Iowa or in Ohio and stuff so and you don't have to answer them but you say it sold 20 years ago who cares I sold the company for 10 million yeah whatever and then I took that $10 million and I have $100 million portfolio whatever that is that kind of adds them no understand no it's logical absolutely yeah so how much did you sell your company for I did I sold it uh in July of 1999 it was about 12 million $12 million awesome congratulations and of course you took the proceeds and then you got into real estate and that's how real estate in uh started if you are what's the size of your portfolio today square footage wise square footage wise I think we're around um 800,000 800,000 square feet that's pretty sizable how many buildings is it oh gosh I'd have to run the math um I'm going to say probably around 12 12 buildings oh that's big buildings yeah and uh I mean I probably have an idea what the value of the for our viewers what do you think if you were to sell everything today and of course your properties will generate a lot of Revenue what kind of a price can you take if you hold sold the entire portfolio you know I'd call my friend Rafi and say Rafi what is it worth honestly I 800,000 would got to be at least 100 million but probably more because you got such amazing properties honestly don't know I don't really you know you don't you don't think that way just art not really beautiful yeah I have so much to learn from you I'm so excited after I met with you at your building I thought a lot about who you are and how you impact real estate I think as we're sitting here today in 2025 and uh we're experiencing the biggest even though it's quiet nobody talks about it biggest Fallout of the real estate market a lot of these buildings are just corpses dead carcasses uh that are use not used there's one right here it's a beautiful glass building but it's in foreclosure yeah now we cannot pay the kind of basis they're asking yeah for these properties and 100 bucks 200 bucks a foot but if we were able to pick it up for 30 to 50 bucks and apply your magic to it I think there is a business model Brewing I think you can totally reshape the the makeup of these buildings what do you think about that no question yeah that's an opportunity for sure I don't know what building your referencing but I mean uh yeah absolutely there's look people are people right and they live and work in their communities and many of them still go to the an office space to do what they do every day most of my projects are based in the urban core but there's no reason why they wouldn't work in a Suburban Corp or anywhere for that matter people want to be around other people and they want to have an environment that they that resonates with them that they respond to you know lower that basis of that of that building that you acquire gives you more opportunity to go in there and really really make the transformation that it probably needs overpaying for something or buying something at retail you're you're kind of stuck you can't really do much with it unless you can move the leases up and and really write new leases at new numbers which is really difficult to do I think outside of the price you got to draw them in with what you got going on you know what I mean which is a a lure and and and community and cult yeah one of the ideas that I have which we're going to explore is to create Community event spaces out of these towers we have 110,000 ft tower under contract it's a 10 story or 11 Story Tower beautiful Victorian building in St Louis nice um $2.7 million purchase price nice and it's zoned live work which is uh basically our fallback if we fail in converting Office into better like a community office just convert into housing yeah but two stories on the main floor used to be Bank yeah uh you got ceilings that are 20ft marble all over it's absolutely spectacular but the older is 80 years old and he's not going to spend any money and he's selling it at a 10 cap to us at this so I would be very very curious as to how you would re analyze that building and put it back together but there's buildings like that all over no there are absolutely they're all over America yeah yeah they have fallen out of their intended use and they've either been yell held in a sort of a interim use of just low rent cheap space uh an owner that doesn't really care or doesn't really understand the market and what he would need to he or she would need to do to to Really bring the market of that building up so you it that build oftentimes that building really needs to leave that owner's hands for anything to happen because they're under capitalized they're tired and they are at a different basis so for them they're not in the constructive creating Spirit they're in the defense I want to get as much money as possible get out of here yeah I don't blame them look as a seller I would want the most I can get for a building too but I think it's it's a different mindset completely it's a mind set it's not like oh I'll just start to create this and do this you have to really take your thinking and apply it in a completely unconventional manner many of them came from a generation where that conventional thinking got them to where it it where where they got to but now it doesn't work anymore MH one thing that I also noticed about your approach is uh as opposed to just being a landlord like we are you also put put businesses in these buildings you've done uh event spaces yes you now have a most successful pickle Bow Court in Midwest congratulations and what other businesses have you done that occupied your own buildings yeah I mean those have been the two higher profile ones like lucky shots pickle ball and Arya The Event Center um starting a new one in a building in St Paul the old James J Hill Library we're going to be opening an event center in there yet this year if there's an opportunity that I feel that I can get my arms around and really take on the opportunity and and and deliver something to the market that's going to be better than anything else that I can find on the market I'm going to do it if I can't do that I'm not going to do it I don't want to be second fiddle to anyone I don't want to be like the The Event Center that you'd call because you have a limited budget I want to be the Event Center that you go to because damn this is the most fantastic Event Center on the planet or at least in the midwest I want to be there I don't care what it cost see that's that's a beautiful see one thing that is different between the your approach our approach we are all about value approach so everything we do is geared towards capturing that Walmart customer yeah and for me it's always been well it's a safe bet and when the market tanks I'm not the highest guy in town I'll be able to survive y but it kind of gives me a whole different perspective because I'll always have to charge less because I don't have that artistic and uh mindset really yeah and so uh thank you for that I'm I'm definitely evolving hanging out with you to to really become a better better Real Estate developer this is two street right back at you awesome thank you another question I have is you have this beautiful project at 155 Central Avenue just picked it up uh what is it 75,000 ft about 78,000 78,000 $5.1 million for it the guy before you took a bath on it they put bought it for 7 and half million yeah I think the group of out of group out of Chicago yeah what are you plans for that building and how do you see that building evolve over the over the what you told me was so exciting I I I don't know if you can talk to how you going to re reposition that property yeah we closed on that just about a month ago and we're looking to now reinvent the building and bring in it was purpose-built as a I don't know if you saw the van go uh experience I read that with my wife yeah it was nice I enjoyed it yeah tall ceilings everything yeah exactly so it was purpose built for the space inside was purpose built for that exhibition and they left about I think a year and a half two years ago or so I would like to move a business into that space that has some some sort of an entertainment concept maybe it's immersive experience maybe it's a music component maybe it's a hybrid of of both where you've got a room that would be uh you know live music concerts um FNB component there'd be a a restaurant of sorts uh the immersive thing could be another piece of it that works co-joined with the other one so you've got music and immersive and if you want to do both you can do that a social space for events parties corporate Etc I think the building is just perfectly built for that and that's kind of the path I'm on right now and engaging with a bunch of different people and different ideas along those lines do you think it's going to be like AR uh Arya 2.0 uh you know Arya was so uniquely um specific and and beautiful and one of a kind very underp parked this one is not underp parked yes exactly that said um you know I think some of the same sort of uh energy could be there uh but it's just a very very different building got it yeah you're not that old but I'm going to ask the question about Legacy yeah okay what Legacy do you hope to leave with or through first and first yeah um yeah good question I honestly don't spend a lot of time thinking about it it's really more about to me advancing culture really being a person that really dedicated his time through his practice to be able to move ideas forward and when I say culture I don't mean exclusively the S I mean I I I look at artists in a wide ranging bandwidth I think a a great chef is an artist I think a great bartender is an artist I think uh writers are artists I think great real estate investor is an artist 100% warhall Andy warhall said making money is is the highest form of Art and I don't disagree with that yeah um so being engaged in projects with people that sort of share these sentiments and and have this sort of a a mindset is something that I find incredibly stimulating and and enjoyable awesome so you want to leave a legacy of see my statement is everything every building we touch we leave better than we found yeah your statement is going to be more advanced every building that Peter touches and why don't you finish that statement um every building that we touch we want if there's one word that would describe our projects it would be transformation transformation yeah and if you look at you know not to get too deep into it but if you look at somebody who goes under a spiritual transformation or a a transformation of um just who they are as a person maybe they were a broken individual and they you know didn't believe in themsel and they had struggled to get their life together and they finally were able however they did it to come out on the other side of that and really be somebody that is a productive member of society and building a career path that is exciting and who knows fill in the blanks for whatever you want to whatever attributes you'd want to apply that I think that's really um kind of the reason why we're here on this planet is to be able to help each other out a little bit and to be able to take something that isn't functioning and bring it into a new environment a new light and and watch it watch it Thrive mhm awesome
beautiful so outside of work outside of creating beautiful spaces who is Andy what are your three passions that you spend time reading traveling I mean uh yeah all the above I love reading love traveling the Arts are a big part of my life I serve on the been on the board of the Walker Art Center here based in Minneapolis for about 17 or 18 years I'm very involved over there have a lot of relationships with people in the Arts uh in the in the industry globally not just locally so I I spend a good deal of time looking at art thinking about art many of my ideas come from the art world I'm able to find you know just a studio visit or a a conversation with a artist friend sometimes will just unlock something in my head to be able to oh my gosh I hadn't thought about that way I'm going to try this or I'm going to do this so yeah those are I'm never lacking for things to do or or people to talk to or places to go I wish I could get to experience more of the things I want to do but you know I got a pretty full busy life and um it's just I I'm very grateful for it what is the book that you've read in the past three to five years that had a most transformational impact on you your brain on Art your brain on Art who's by Susan maximan and Ivy Ross collaboration two of them yeah um I'd love to go see them speak somewhere I need to find out where that's going to happen um they're pretty active on the circuit but um yeah they have taken the neurosciences of Art and really distilled it in a language that people like myself couldn't understand highly encourage you to read it or anybody out there interested in that topic but it really talks about creativity and how much creativity has been swept aside and we have now just moved into a culture that doesn't really embrace it or endorse it and how much that you know they talk about how we as human beings were we are looked at as thinking beings learning to feel when we really are feeling beings learning to think I see that's right that's very I think those attributes which are available and accessible to all of us are so critical and I think what I've done in building my portfolio is just apply some of those I didn't learn about the book till about 6 months ago so I just I have a copy of it I'm into reading it right now but I think it's it's just a very important I'll call it a guide book and and they've taken this data and they've taken like real life examples of how this really is transformative interesting yeah very definitely going to read that book and i' I I've got look I've got Hardline example I sold a portfolio of of buildings um about 2017 2018 pre- pandemic and um CB did the underwriting on the portfolio and they went they had their analyst go through we had hundreds of leases that all had to be analyzed you know the drill you've been through it numerous times and I remember meeting with them and they had the spread sheet of all the leases and they said well there's a problem and I said oh these what's the problem and they said well the ti uh analysis is it must be off I said what do you mean what what do you mean must be off tenant improvements TI yeah tenant Improvement allowance and they said well it it's an average of $22.15 a foot and I said oh that's that's that's more than I wanted to spend but that's accurate and were like what are you talking about doesn't reflect how it looks what are you they like what are you talking how could it be 215 a foot and I said that's what we've spent on TI allowances and they were just dumbfound at how we could get there without having to spend the money on tenant Improvement allowances but what it wasn't told in that story was we didn't abide by that or Subs I was new to the industry I didn't really even understand what a t was why would I write a check why would pay you $100,000 to come to my building and you're going to spend it on your that's industry Works and's got to get paid these commissions exactly exactly so we just never participated in it and what we did do though was focus on building a unique ecosystem that draw people in really resonated with potential tenants and they said oh my God I don't care if they don't get T I want to be here right I want to sit here yeah and case after case after case of Brokers that would come in show our buildings I remember one specific speically at velia Tower a big 220,000 square of a building we did over on um right off of Interstate 94 in vandelia we had a foundation that was moving in there and the broker toured us through and we were chatting and they said okay well the ti allowance was I think they were the range was like $60 to $70 a foot and I just said well we're not doing that and then he said well you're going lose a deal I said well that's fine we'll we you know we we'll move on right well they came in anyway the tenant did they signed the lease they wanted to be there they paid they pay so you got that emotional response like we're not going anywhere forget it we'll spend 40 bucks ourselves and it's really okay so why did they do that why do you think they did that because they you you grabbed their emotion because you got them excited about being there so to me it's all about identity as a human being like your identity my identity like the green sweater you're wearing you didn't just grab that off the shelf you thought about how you want to present today right okay so your identity is an important thing to you and as it is to me as it is to these guys and the identity of a tenant that might be looking to land in their building is very important to them they want to be seen in a particular fashion a particular manner like putting a item of clothing on sort of right yes yeah and what that means to the entrepreneur who's going to sign that lease is okay how am I going to create an environment where my employeers are going to want to come here and stay here they're going to feel welcomed and comfortable and this is a cool spot amazing energy I love the amenities I love the coffee shops I love the brewery I love the co- tenants all these guy down the hall he's super cool I love him that is all based on identity and everybody has it conventional landlords have forgotten what that even means they just because they focused on mathematics focused on maths a race to the bottom we'll give you this we'll buy your lease we'll give you $120 fo competing with a bunch of other buildings that are similar exactly can't win at that game I can't play it because I'll lose every time I can't be the lowcost provider what do what have I got I've just got cheap space right so what I want you to feel something I want you to come here and go holy [ __ ] can I say that um this is amazing I don't even know what I'm experiencing here but this I love this I don't think about art but I love this I'm not an artist but I really love to out here that's the reaction I experience when I came to your building I was like what is this right I could I couldn't like Marvel at like and everything was put together so amazingly it was I I felt like I was in the Alice and the Wonderland you were show right you were right no I mean like all of this is is our stage sets right every bit of it this is a stage set that we're sitting in like you create an environment and it either works well or it works not so well and the ones that work well have this thing that you and I can't describe right but it's a pull I think that could be a solution to our big uh office problem yeah so uh fascinating I'm definitely taking a lot of mental notes um what's the best piece of advice you've received in your real estate career oh boy don't overpay don't overpay yeah because we get as an artist I'm sure you more than me get excited about the building where it could happen oh yeah it's easy to spend money right you got get I me look anybody can spend money lots of and look the the support the around you I'm not knocking Architects or or uh designers whatever but it's easy spending somebody else's money and it's fun it's enjoyable I am incredibly diligent and and I I try to make every dollar do the work of 10 I really do I try to get things done as efficiently as possible uh because it it it I don't care what your budget is you're going over it it's going to cost more than you think if you had an opportunity to meet yourself 20 years ago just sold the company got a lot of money and about to launch himself in a real estate career what advice would you give that person that your you uh that guy what advice give them yeah I would say um I me the core fundamentals of some of which we've already discussed I would say keep those very close to you don't lose sight of that but buy everything that you think makes sense and whether it's partnering or various forms of Finance or whatever just buy what you can and try to figure it out as quickly as possible and don't get intimidated by market Cycles or were too scared at the time it sounds like yeah I mean who knows right I mean it's just I mean I it wasn't occurring to me 20 years ago I should be out buying commercial buildings it kind of came to me after that but I think that if you buy judiciously if you buy if you don't overpay and that could be a moving Target sometimes you will probably have a higher chance well you will have a higher chance of success and you're probably going to be just fine my goal when I'm looking at identifying a property any property anywhere my goal is to buy that property for the price of zero right that's my goal how is that possible that's my goal I've never gotten there but that's my goal all right so got as little basically pay as little as possible absolutely see our whole Paradigm is to buy as much real estate POS as possible without putting any money out of our pocket yeah but use the power of time value of money principle to work to our advantage sure so here's an example uh the guy wants $2 million for a property uh that is worth 1.8 million well how you buy how do you buy a property for $2 million when it's appraised for 1.8 million and make any money yeah and uh we actually closed on the transaction and made $700,000 profit and all as a result of us creating a situation where the seller carried 900 ,000 against a different property at 3% interest only for 10 years wow and when you use that uh and we bought this property in 2019 we then go turn around and sold it to a owner user seller financed it yeah so we seller finance bought it seller finance sold it an owner user is old that he doesn't care about economics he just wants to use it for his business for 2.7 million uh so uh we use a lot of that yeah so for me buying it for zero sounds impossible unless City will just give it to you but buying it with no money out of pocket and creating a situation where it positively cash flows yeah that's an art that I subscribe to and I love that game yeah when I I'm I'm being fous when I say buy for zero I don't expect anybody to sell their building for zero but that it just sort of clears the air in terms of what you know like I'm just not a person that's going to overpay for anything it's not in me it's I'm not hardwired that way I've seen people do it and they've had success doing it and again what seems like they're overpaying for in 5 years looks like a steal so I I think that the there are people smarter than I am that are able to do that and and come out of it just fine so uh yeah advice to yourself is not to be scared and just to buy property as long as Mak sense and not worry about the big picture issues that makes sense is there a quote that resonates with you and kind of a big part of of of your identity oh boy oh gosh and if you don't as we I don't have to do it but if you think about the quote one thing that was fascinating about my meeting you for the first time we talked about a lot of deep psychology talked about philosophy cuz I'm a philosopher and I think about like got internal state of our conscious and subconscious mind and controlling the animal within yeah so uh I've really liked our deep conversation and we never connected again for I don't know a year or something yeah that was your fault yeah it's my fault buying too many buildings flying too around too much but anyhow so the quote any kind of a quote that comes to you and if it comes to you you can tell me later well Peter thank you very much for coming it was fascinating to share this podcast with you and get some questions immensely I really admire your approach to real estate I think you're definitely Maverick in the industry and if there's anything I can do to learn I I my main thing is to find a way to add value yeah because if your artistic ISM artistic expression will rub off on me and then it will rub off on all of our properties I think outside of just you know dollars and sense I think the Fulfillment piece will be so much better yeah and um I take pride in the properties we own I yes you know I I I I and so for for me uh what you're doing is just next level of Excellence I think that if I'm in the levels of if I play in the level of Excellence or try to be you are at the level of Genius which is a step above excellence and uh to me when I met you when I saw what you're doing I was like this is just next level of this Jumanji right and I have a feeling monetizing on your art with the buildings that we can have but also bringing your talent into the United States Market outside of Minnesota yeah I would be love I'd love to sign up and fly around and and and and be my sort of a partner on these properties we're working on no thank you for that no very kind of you by the way that's very flattering I mean from bottom my my heart no I appreciate it really do thank you so much um it's first of all just awesome to get to know you too over the last year so um and I really admire what you're up to I mean you're really just taking you're biting off big chunks of Life by uh taking these buildings down and and taking these Pro look I know firsthand this none of this is easy like it's a real grind to be able to you know buy something get under control close on it and then the work starts from there so I do really have a ton of respect for what you're doing and what you're creating you know I just feel like you know there's there's a lot tons of symmetries here and tons of of common ground that we sh and I think that there's all kinds of potential out there to do things in a way that really haven't been done before in a broader sense I mean there might be somebody doing it in a certain Market orever but I feel like you know what you saw when you toured lucky shots I mean that was something that I did you know and had a lot of fun creating and building it and and curating it and designing it and there's there's no pickle ball club in the world that looks like that today nowhere anywhere and what people may not understand is it has nothing to do with pickle ball yes absolutely it has everything to do with people and the expression and and the feeling yes and so and I like I said selfishly uh we were working on two pickle ball courts and we were just kind of struggling with attendance yeah and um without getting a commitment from you I went ahead and cancelled both yeah and I'd love to invite for you to come in and uh maybe create or partner or maybe franchise that at those definely so I will basically get an airplane and fly out there and I would love for you to kind of see both the spaces and I think pickle ball court in those two properties and Lakewood too I think will be a beautiful venue for that I think that'll be an amazing opportunity for us to collaborate yeah awesome wow thank you thank you thank you for coming of course really had a a pleasure having you and very inspired by you and um for those of you if you want to learn more about Peter his um company is called First and first you can find it on Instagram uh it is first and first on Instagram and uh also DM me for any questions you might have love to answer them and uh give you any kind of feedback I guess I'll see you in the next episode thank you very much thank you yeah