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Taking the Hire Road is a podcast dedicated to providing tips to help manage the driver recruiting process while addressing the ongoing challenges related to the driver shortage and driver retention. Hosted by Jeremy Reymer, Founder and CEO of DriverReach, this bimonthly podcast shines a light on the challenges that carriers are facing and aims to help companies hire quality drivers with greater efficiency.
Jeremy Reymer [00:00:07]:
Welcome to Taking the Hire Road, a special show dedicated to the trucking industry, primarily around the confluence of recruiting, retention and compliance. In the fifth year as the host of the show, I bring over two decades of industry experience, both on the carrier side as well as the vendor side. Throughout the year, I interview industry experts and thought leaders who bring their insight to the driver life cycle as we discuss the industry's greatest challenges. I always appreciate your feedback, good or bad. Don't forget to leave a rating and a review. I'd also like to thank and highlight the show's valuable sponsors. Their dedication and commitment to the industry and to this show is greatly appreciated. If you're interested in being a sponsor of the show or joining me for an interview, please email jeremy@takingthehireroad.com. On this episode, I'm joined by a well-known and respected industry leader in recruiting and marketing who also happens to be a great friend and engaged industry advocate, Shelley Dellinger, Vice President of Recruiting and Marketing for Cargo Transporters.
Jeremy Reymer [00:01:02]:
Thank you so much for joining me, Shelley.
Shelley Dellinger [00:01:04]:
Yeah, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me, Jeremy.
Jeremy Reymer [00:01:08]:
Well, I'm glad for you to be here and I'd love to hear about your background and talk about what led you to the trucking industry. I'd also like to learn more about Cargo Transporters in general, especially since you're so engaged in the industry. We can dig into the value of being so involved and engaged as you and Cargo Transporters are. And then for the meat of the conversation, I'd love to dig into the challenges that carriers face. Some of it is self induced when it comes to just recruiting and retaining drivers. And then lastly, we'll answer a question submitted by a listener in our industry health segment sponsored by Project 61. Does that work for you?
Shelley Dellinger [00:01:44]:
Works for me. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Reymer [00:01:46]:
All right. Well, I don't want to ask you for a book recommendation. Well, I do. I. I do, but I'm not going to ask you yet. I'm going to do that at the end of our conversation, but please be thinking about a book that you'd like to highlight, one or more that's been impactful to you. So I'm just planting that seed now. Now I say this a lot of times when I talk to folks that have been in the industry, especially if they're in like, they've been in it for generations and stuff like that, but most of us found our way into trucking, you know, really one or two ways.
Jeremy Reymer [00:02:11]:
We either stumble into it like, like me or, or were born into it or, you know, were raised up into it. But for you, let's just talk, you know, about your background, your journey into the industry. How did you get into trucking?
Shelley Dellinger [00:02:23]:
Pretty much happenstance. I was working for a waist hauler company and it's now known as Republic Working. I started, I think it was a friend's recommendation and I started as a receptionist and moved up pretty quickly to their dispatching department. And when I left I was over the recycling division. So we were having trucks come in and pick up loads of cardboard and some of the other things that had been collected. So Dennis, at that point, my brother, there was an opening at Cargo and at the time, Tony Pope, who was founder of pretty much Cargo Transporters, he's been a mentor to many, many people here. He really wanted family involved and other people's family involved in the company. So if you had a family member, they were welcome to join the company.
Shelley Dellinger [00:03:26]:
And so that's how I got my start into Cargo Transporters. And it began in logistics, so I was there for probably 10 years.
Jeremy Reymer [00:03:36]:
Is that long enough?
Shelley Dellinger [00:03:39]:
I liken it to live TV because you don't get a second chance to make a decision on taking a load. Not taking a load. You have to make a decision. When you call the shipper and they have a 3:00 and a 7:00, you get one chance to make a decision on what the pickup time is. So the pace of that is addicting. You come in and you check off all these boxes and you feel good about the day and there's not all these lingering things that go on. Obviously you have osnds and things like that, but the pace of that, that is why I think people come back to trucking. It's this cliche, but once you get trucking in your blood, I think it always is there.
Jeremy Reymer [00:04:23]:
If you get into the industry and you embrace embraces you right back. It's something that you. You build relationships over the years, especially that last a lifetime. And I was going to say in early 2024, I interviewed Sean Brown, who's VP of Safety with Cargo Transporters. Great conversation. So for those who may not have tuned in for that conversation, definitely search that. You may be the first time that I have interviewed multiple people from the same company. But I think part of the reason for that, my interest, not only because I've known you for years and that you have always been engaged in active, especially in the recruiting and marketing side of the company and of the industry, but Cargo Transporters has consistently Been an active leader in the industry.
Jeremy Reymer [00:05:07]:
And you mentioned your brother, who is the president and CEO. Correct. Can you share a little bit about, just for the audience, maybe who, those who, who aren't as familiar with Cargo Transporters, a little bit about the company, kind of. And for those who aren't familiar with it?
Shelley Dellinger [00:05:22]:
Well, going back to the family, and I know a lot of people that is overused with the family. We're family. We are a team, though. We are a team. And at cargo, when we're in meetings, when we're discussing policy or benefits or anything, it really comes down to safety and how does this impact the driver or the employee. But being engaged is something that we're taught. We are encouraged to join local charities, local nonprofits, and to give back to our community. So we're active in the Chamber United Way, some of those things.
Shelley Dellinger [00:06:04]:
So it's not just the industry, it's giving back to the community, too. And anytime that we can participate and anything in the community, we try to give people, you know, the STEM projects that are the STEM programs that the county has, we're always there, always active with touch of trucks, going out to elementary schools, middle schools, all of that, just to not brand cargo, but to show some of these younger minds that, wow, we're here and we've been here and we'll be here when you. You get to a point in your life where you want to make a career or decide on a career.
Jeremy Reymer [00:06:51]:
Just a good shepherd of the community. And you're not only involved at the national level with ATA, with TCA, for example, but like you said, you're. You're heavily involved in a state, at the local level. And at the state level, from an association standpoint, the North Carolina Trucking Association, you are the incoming Chair for the NCTA's Women in Trucking Summit. How important is that to you? Obviously, being a woman in the industry, being supportive, knowing that there's such a disparity between men and women, how important is that, that the industry continue to, you know, empower women and do more, to bring more diversity into the industry?
Shelley Dellinger [00:07:28]:
Oh, it's very important. And not. It's just the right thing to do to engage women in a seat at the table? I think we do pretty good at cargo. Our chief legal counsel, our VP of HR, our controller, VP of recruiting, are all females. We do have a female in operations. We have, you know, half of our safety departments females. They all have their CDS certifications. There's a lot of females, and I think we do. We are able to provide a different type of perspective on decisions, maybe a little bit more creativity to some of the solutions, and just offer another perspective altogether.
Jeremy Reymer [00:08:19]:
As you've probably seen, and I know Attri has provided this data point which is relevant, right, that women in every statistical category are safer than men. Now I'm talking clearly about drivers in that perspective. But I think to your point, getting more diversity is a huge opportunity for us.
Shelley Dellinger [00:08:37]:
We have a contest that runs concurrent with March Madness, and it's Cargo's Lytx Score Challenge. You know, this has kind of been out there, but as a driver is pitted, they're seated and they're pitted against another driver. And we have our brackets and this is our fourth year. But out of the three previous years, two of the winners have been female. So it's based on your Lytx Score points. You know, I think right now we're about 10% female at Cargo Transporters as far as our drivers. And it's probably even less than, percentage wise, even less than that, that the females actually join in and say, yes, I want to do this, so.
Jeremy Reymer [00:09:22]:
Yeah, well that's great. And that's again, you support the statistic that ATRI has shared. Now if we can get into your role specifically and just discuss some of the things that, that you're passionate about. You're the VP of Recruiting and Marketing. It's an important role for any trucking company. Granted, the past two and a half or plus years anyway has been certainly been challenging, but the demand for safe, qualified drivers is always a priority. You and I have spoken before about just this vicious cycle, right, where, where carriers, intentionally or not, often feed driver behavior that carriers end up complaining about. Let's talk about that behavior and then like what carriers are doing to exacerbate it.
Shelley Dellinger [00:10:01]:
Our turnover is in the low 40%, so we're not 90% or anything like that. But we have so many times we will have a driver to ghost us after they're hired. Ghost us, or they'll go 24 hour no contact with us and eventually, you know, we'll find the truck has been cleaned out, but we have no feedback from the driver. And often I'm, I'm wondering, like, why don't they come to us and let us know either first of all up front, like, you know, so we can be aware of what the problem is and try to help them fix it or do whatever we can in that situation. But like, why are our drivers not giving notice? And I think oftentimes I've heard, you know, the horror stories from other Drivers that are coming to us where they're saying, I gave my notice and they kept me out, they wouldn't let me come home. They, they sent me to the west coast and they didn't have anything. You know, they're looping him around the United States and not getting him back, so he can't actually get out of the truck. Or they just leave him sitting somewhere, leave him her sitting somewhere, and they don't have a way home and they're waiting on a dispatch and they seem to be forgotten.
Shelley Dellinger [00:11:21]:
And I think some of those things that happen are the reason why we get these 24 hour, no contact, and we try to identify people that are not happy. You know, we've used the surveys in the past and they, they're pretty spot on. When you have an unhappy driver, when we get a verification of employment, we reach out to the driver, ask the questions, and hopefully we're able to either let them know we know that there's an issue, try to correct the problem, the issue, and sometimes it's just beyond our control. They want a local drive, local, local position, and we don't have that to offer where they live.
Jeremy Reymer [00:12:04]:
You're only at 40%. That's great from an industry standpoint. But I think you're also acknowledging, though, that like, we can do better still, right?
Shelley Dellinger [00:12:15]:
Yeah. And we try, we try to save these people we work with. We try to save every driver that we have an opportunity and try to work with them. A lot of times drivers will really feel like they have no way. If they have a sick child, a sick parent, or a death, they feel like they have to leave the company and not just take a break. You have the opportunity or the ability to take a break from driving and come back, we're going to save your position here. We want to work with you through those times. When we have the opportunity to speak to a driver that we have received a vre, we ask the questions and also let them know that, hey, when you find something, just give us a notice.
Shelley Dellinger [00:13:02]:
You know, we'll work with you through that process. You know, sometimes we're all guilty of that, but there are companies out there that really do try to prevent the driver from leaving on a good note.
Jeremy Reymer [00:13:15]:
I think this goes without saying that just open communication solves a world of problems. When the driver knows that from the onset, like onboarding, even pre, you know, hire, they understand what they're getting into. They're getting into a company that has a culture that says, look, this is a partnership. We need to be Able to work together. We need to be able to communicate with each other. And if there are things that are going to cause you to be stressed about work or might have to make some adjustments because of some of the things that you mentioned, whether it's child or parents or something, we're going to be flexible. We're human. This is life.
Jeremy Reymer [00:13:47]:
If you can convey that. And sometimes you have to beat that drum a lot because they forget. Because most people, by the way, Shelly, aren't like that. Or even if they are, they don't let you know that they're like that and they don't articulate that. Well, I was going to say, like, what are some of the things that carriers can do to break that vicious cycle? I think that's one of them, right? Just good, open lines of communication is helpful. You can only control what you can control.
Jeremy Reymer [00:14:12]:
You can't control how all the other carriers out there that they've interacted with over the years have behaved. That has, you know, so they have this chip on their shoulder. Sometimes it's tough. Anything else that comes to mind about things that carriers can do maybe to help break that, that cycle?
Shelley Dellinger [00:14:31]:
I just think it does come down to communication. And. But the other thing is, I do think the companies really need to know what is going on with the relationship between the fleet managers and the drivers to. Does that fleet manager know their drivers? Can they tell you anything about that driver other than what he likes to run? I think that's important that so many of our newer fleet leaders or fleet managers, dispatchers, need some help with some of the softer skills. And I'm not saying that as a negative. I think we all have to learn those. But we forget that some of these younger people that we've hired, they need some help along the way.
Jeremy Reymer [00:15:17]:
Training, right? Training, coaching.
Jeremy Reymer [00:15:20]:
Yeah.
Jeremy Reymer [00:15:21]:
Retraining. Sometimes it's all of us. All of us as people. People management.
Shelley Dellinger [00:15:25]:
Exactly. And that's why you read and that's why you talk to people. So you can be better tomorrow than you are today.
Jeremy Reymer [00:15:33]:
It's important for the driver to know that you care and know you care. Or certainly it's more obvious that you care when you engage with them and you get to know them in a way that is not just driver659. And this may be a good segue to the next segment, which is the industry health segment, which is sponsored by Project 61. This is where a question is submitted by one of our listeners in the audience. And so the question is, what are some best practices for fleets to embrace their driver's health and, and promote wellness. Any thoughts from your perspective?
Shelley Dellinger [00:16:09]:
We have tried and we've tried to embrace that. We have two workout rooms here at Cargo Transporters. We have a walking trail. We encourage our drivers to get out and breathe some fresh air. Just to get out of the truck, limber up, do all those things. We have exercises on their driver app. We have a driver app and giving them some tools in their toolbox to stay healthy and just move. And I think with our drivers, they've always been isolated and I think we understand that a little more today than we did five years ago, how they may feel isolated from human contact or human communication.
Shelley Dellinger [00:16:59]:
So I think getting out and walking and doing more of that, I think would prevent some of the isolation they feel inside the truck. Just to walk around the truck stop or the rest area and pet the dogs and say hello and enjoy. You know, the 5 minutes, 10 minutes or the 30 minute break that you have. You know, we encourage our drivers to do that.
Jeremy Reymer [00:17:23]:
I've not been to your operation, but having a, even a walking trailer, I think that's really cool. I didn't know about the app, but that's great too because again, it helps you to stay in front of them more and maybe keep encouraging them to, to be active, to move, to engage. Because it is such a tough job, such a sedentary lifestyle job that you know, any chance they have, they have to be so intentional with movement. I think that's just, that's just really important. And I know Cargo Transporters has always been a, again, very active and engaged in the industry. Safety, recruiting, compliance, all of those things, you are a leader in that regard. So hopefully there's some, some good nuggets of wisdom here. But you know, if people can imitate some of the things that, that you're doing and some of the things that you're talking about, I think that the industry is going to be better for it.
Shelley Dellinger [00:18:13]:
We were excited to learn that we were nominated or had been designated an elite fleet, that you had earned that certification. And so I'm excited to see the results later and see what the other companies are doing. And maybe there's something that we aren't, that we could add. And you know, it's just a way to get better. And I think as an industry, we really do a good job of getting better. You have to, if you don't get better, you're not competitive and then you don't have the talent that you need to move the freight.
Jeremy Reymer [00:18:50]:
Well, and one thing that I can say about all those who, who I am familiar with, who are designated in elite fleet or one of the other, the greatest fleets to drive for, best fleets to drive for. One commonality amongst all of them is that they care. That's a basic common denominator and it's really important. So before we wrap up, hopefully you've had a chance to consider a book to refer. What's a specific book or books that have been impactful to you that you can share with the audience?
Shelley Dellinger [00:19:16]:
Last year I wanted to read the Bible, and I read the Bible and I studied the Bible all last year. And so that took a lot of my time. And this year too, I've even started redoing, you know, the. The study Bible that I did last year because there was so much I just couldn't retain. But recently we're both at a conference with North Carolina TruckingAassociation, the Women in Trucking Summit in Asheville, and Dr. Gina Anderson was there and we all were given the book, Thrive. And I've started reading that I think all of us had felt at some point the anxiety, maybe hopelessness. And so I'm excited to read on in that. I don't know if your listeners know Gina Anderson.
Jeremy Reymer [00:20:04]:
I had read it before the event, so I had her sign the copy there. It was so great to hear her presentation. And I. I've known her for a long time. So what's even better is once you read that book, when it's somebody that you know, it makes it that much more special and impactful. So. So I'm glad that you mentioned that book as well. Talking about the Bible, I mean, two pretty significant, you know, Old Testament especially, you know, much more dense than the New Testament, but still, that's a lot to read and absorb. And so, I think that's something that you don't read that once through and say, okay, next book. I mean, you always go back to different parts. It's like looking in the mirror sometimes. And that's really good. From a spiritual perspective, it helps us be better.
Shelley Dellinger [00:20:48]:
It does, it does.
Jeremy Reymer [00:20:49]:
So I'm glad you, you mentioned that one as well. Shelley, thank you so much for joining me. I was thinking about this, I think close to a decade almost, or pretty close. You've always been present, always engaged. Super grateful for your friendship and I look forward to seeing you at some more upcoming industry events.
Shelley Dellinger [00:21:04]:
Okay, well, thank you for having me.
Jeremy Reymer [00:21:06]:
And thank you for Taking the Hire Road with me. Once again, special thanks to the sponsors of this show. We really appreciate you. If you're interested in being a sponsor or joining me for an interview, please email jeremy@takingthehireroad.com. Until next time, thank you for Taking the Hire Road.