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The OG3 discuss high SCC and LPC issues in the bulk tank using the real-world example of the UMN dairy in Morris at the WCROC. Thank you for listening!
Hosted by members of the University of Minnesota Extension Beef and Dairy Teams, The Moos Room discusses relevant topics to help beef and dairy producers be more successful. The information is evidence-based and presented as an informal conversation between the hosts and guests.
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Joe: Welcome to The Moos Room, everybody. We have found Emily, most importantly. The OG3 is back together. This is not a true crime podcast.
Emily: I am here and I am fully alive.
Joe: Fully alive.
Emily: Yes.
Joe: Emily mentioned that she did tell both of us where she was going to be and actually told me twice. It's all on me, I guess. I completely forgot that she was going to be at FarmFest doing important stuff down there, but we're happy that you're alive then.
Emily: Yes, I'm happy I'm alive too, actually. I was sad to miss last week, but FarmFest was a blast. A lot of fun this year. Ran into quite a few people who said they listened to The Moos Room, so that was exciting. It was a little hot, but it was a good time this year.
Joe: Quite hot, from what I hear. Planning to go next year. Planning to try to go every year from now on. It sounds like a great time down there. Hopefully, it'll be a little cooler next year.
Emily: Fingers crossed. Mark your calendars. August 1st through the 3rd, 2023.
Joe: 2023. All right. Very important update. Brad, is your cow dry yet or are you still milking?
Bradley: She is dry and she's going to be a dry cow being shown at the Stevens County Fair this week. Actually, tomorrow, Friday. There's actually three dry cows at our county fair. It's crazy. Three dry cows and three milking cows, and the rest are heifers.
Joe: Oh, wow. Well, I hear that that county fair has a pretty cool parlor, to be honest, is what I hear from-
Bradley: We have the best parlor of any county fair in the state. It is a, what is it, Emily?
Emily: It is a three-stall rapid exit. I hate to say it, but I have to agree, it is the nicest milking parlor I have seen at any county fair. It is beautiful, but Bradley is a little too proud of it.
[laughter]
Joe: That's okay.
Bradley: Definitely.
Joe: Well, they can milk all three at once and get them out of there real quick. Good deal. All right. Well, today no guest today. We're just the three of us. We needed some time to reconnect just the three of us without a guest interfering with our dialogue and our banter, and making fun of Bradley, mostly.
Emily: Also thinking as it of like my welcome back party. Thinking of it as my welcome back party. There we go.
Joe: Yes, and we did check on Emily that day. We made sure.
Emily: I did not have my phone on my person at the time of the podcast, so when I did retrieve it, once again, several texts, missed calls. They are worried about me. That was good. At least it just wasn't crickets and they're like, "Emily's not here."
Joe: No, we care. We care.
Emily: Thank you.
Joe: Today, we're talking, revisiting a topic that we covered before, but want to delve into a little more specifics on what's going on at the Morris Dairy with Brad. Brad had a field day just on Tuesday this week, or August 9th, the organic field day at the WCROC. Heard from a lot of people that there's some mastitis issues and some somatic cell issues. Brad, you've been maybe struggling with those yourself at the dairy. Give us an overview of what's going on.
Bradley: Yes, we've been struggling once again, and Emily knows my frustration with somatic cell counts, especially in our dairy. She's helped me before in years past, try and get things under control. Well, maybe she'll have to make a trip out again. It's an odd year, really wet spring. We got lots of rain storms and then all of a sudden, it dries.
We had lots of mud in April and May, and then it really hasn't rained much in the last few months, but somatic cell counts have been high. I've talked to other farmers and their counts have been high too, and struggling to get it under control. We see ups and downs in our herd. Two weeks ago, I thought I had it under control, especially in the organic herd, and now, it's not under control again. It's crazy ups and downs every which way.
Emily: Bradley, quick question. Of the farmers that have talked to you, are most of them organic or conventional grazing?
Bradley: Yes, the ones that I talked to at my field day, most of them were organic. A couple conventional grazers were there. It's been a struggle in the grazing world. I don't know if it has been in the conventional world, but for our two herds here, it was, yes, crazy. I'm pretty open and honest. Our somatic cell count was- [chuckles] some cases it was over 400,000.
I looked at the organics one day, we had 500,000. Then I got it down to 238 about two weeks ago, and now it's spiked again to 430. It's just a never-ending battle. The conventional herd was spiked up to about 400,000 and it's been riding at about 160, 170,000 now. I kind of got it under control in the conventional herd, but the organic herd, I'm struggling.
Emily: Brad, have you noticed, is this kind of, you have a couple key suspect cows and once they're gone that helps, or is everything up across the board for everyone, or most everyone?
Joe: Well, it was high on some cows and then we did some testing, individual somatic cell testing, a few more and put those cows in a bucket so it wasn't going in the line. Then we had it under control. Then, well myself and interns were going to test again in a couple days to see if there's any culprits causing the issue again. I don't know, somebody's causing a problem. It could be just one cow and that's the problem that we just don't know about. We have been doing some extra somatic cell count testing just so we can see what's going on and try and figure out what's happening.
Joe: Is that your first step usually, Bradley, is to look and try to find these problem cows or chronic? Is that where you go first usually?
Bradley: Yes, usually it's finding the chronic cows, seeing what's happening there, withholding their milk from the tank and see if it's actually those and we do some additional testing. We're actually doing some bulk tank testing as well, which some people do. That's told us there's some staph species in the bulk tank and there's coliforms were maybe on a little bit higher end, but it's nothing to be alarmed at. It's one that we should watch.
We've been doing a few individual cow cultures last week, and so they went off to the D-Lab in St. Paul to figure out what the cultures were on those cows. I can pretty much tell you what those are going to come back as. It's typically the mastitis bug, or the one that we come back on a culture is called staph chromogens. That's wreaked havoc in this herd for a while. We don't really have much staph aureus. I got that under control a long time ago. And we have pretty low levels of staph aureus, even in the bulk tank cultures.
Joe: Yes, usually that's my first thing that I look at every time is chronic cows or cows that-- because it can only be a few cows that cause a lot of problems and keep your somatic cell riding high for the tank. Then yes, I start with the bulk tank culture just to get an overview and give us a baseline and see if we're improving in any area. I like those two starts. Culturing, especially if you have cows that test high repeatedly, I think is a really good idea just to see if they're lurking and hiding from you and rollercoastering up and down. It's frustrating, really frustrating, especially when it can be just one or two cows that are causing such a big problem for the whole dairy, basically.
Bradley: It's a problem for us, especially in the organic world, and I shouldn't say that somatic cell count, we should let it slide, but in the organic world, there's large deductions for somatic cell count. Then there's programs at least for organic value that you go on and you have to correct the problem, do additional testing to make sure that you're getting your somatic cell count low. I just don't like filling out all that paperwork, so I'd rather not have to do it, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to do it this time. We've been doing some extra testing to try and be ahead of the paperwork game that I know is coming.
Somatic cell countdown, I think for every dairy farmer, it's sometimes you just don't have a clue where it's coming from. I've been spinning my head for three, four weeks now trying to figure out what's going on. It's not one thing that says, yes, that's the cause. That's the problem with somatic cell count.
Emily: As you said too, it is more challenging in the organic herd to manage. Your management tools are a lot different. Maybe can you just give a quick reminder, I know we've talked about this, but what tools do you have in your toolbox to manage mastitis or high somatic cell count with the organic herd?
Bradley: Well, we withhold the milk. That's probably number one, so it doesn't go into the tank. We also use some ointments on the udder to help reduce swelling so the cow can maybe fight off the infection herself. You can do frequent stripping of the infected quarter. Sometimes that's difficult.
Frankly, I'm to the point now where I know there's some chronic cows and after some testing we're going to do next week, it might be time to cull some cows that are maybe three tests or so above a certain threshold. or it might be time to cull those cows. That's unfortunate. I don't like to do that but it has to be done. Otherwise, that just perpetuates in the herd and it can spread to other cows. It's probably better to cull them.
Although, I have been working on a new pilot study I did last week with our conventional herd looking at a new treatment. It's corn germ oil in our cows to see- its non-antibiotic. You give it every milking for eight milkings to see if it can help reduce chronic cows and infected cows and stuff. I'm working with- it's a company out of Italy to see if we can find something that maybe can help cows with mastitis or clinical mastitis or high chronic cell counts and not have to use drugs.
That's kind of what we've been working on there too. Maybe there'll be some promising things there. I hope so. We'll definitely see what happens, but we're doing testing in those cows too.
Joe: Well, it's always good to try to find some more tools, especially for organic farmers. Hopefully, that pans out and it does show some efficacy. One of the things I wanted to ask you, Brad, is how you guys look at cows on a day-to-day or week to week or a month to month basis, are you waiting for a spike in somatic cell on the bulk tank to tell you that you need to go look, or are you monitoring on a more regular basis?
Bradley: Well, I do monitor the bulk tank test results every time it comes back to see, and that might give an indication that there's something going on and I maybe need to do some other investigation in cows. We DHI test once a month, but that's one day where we can get the somatic cell count. I do use that and that's a benchmark of maybe those are the cows. Some of you know we have technology here, so we can look at milk conductivity of cows every milking to see if there's some spike in clinical mastitis or somatic cell count based on the conductivity. We use all of those tools to help. If I relied on just one, I probably wouldn't be able to figure it out. I try to use every available tool to figure it out.
There's some new tools I saw at World Dairy Expo that can do cow side somatic cell counts and other things. I just haven't tried any of those. I've thought about it, but you never know where it might go into the future. If we could tell somatic cell count on the fly right where we're milking, that would be wonderful. There are some tests that do it. I don't know how accurate they are, but that's where I think we need to go.
I can figure it out today, by the time I get a bulk tank test back, it's four days later and culture reports take a long time. By the time you have a problem, well, you're a week into it, it can get out of hand really fast.
Joe: That's what I usually see is, usually, you can keep up with it on a day-to-day or week-to-week basis and keep an eye on somatic cell count on a monthly basis but man, sometimes that feels like a long time to wait, especially when you're dealing with a problem a week after test day and you're trying to get it figured out now because you want to be ahead of the problem.
Cow cell tests would be great. Honestly, records are such an overwhelming thing that takes a lot of time. Most of the time, that's a good starting point. Just go look at the last six months of tests a identify the cows right away that you need to test because they're not hard to pick out. Usually, they've been testing consistently over 200,000 for a somatic cell or they have spikes up and down, and they might be clean in one test and then they're up again. Usually, those cows have a historical problem and you can find them pretty quickly.
Unfortunately, a lot of times, those cows have stuck around for a reason because they're high producing or they have sentimental value, maybe a show cow slipped into the herd, things like that. There's lots of reasons to keep cows, but sometimes you got to make that tough decision and they got to go.
Bradley: I'm guilty of that. No doubt about it. It's like, "Man, this cow is milking 80 pounds or 90 pounds, but she's chronic and oh, I don't know, can I cull her? I'll keep her around. Hopefully, she'll clear up or we'll use antibiotics to see." It just doesn't work. It doesn't work.
Joe: No. If they've got a history like that, it's very rare that you can get them to come around. If you really want to try, you got a culture and use those results to decide what you're going to do next. Then you have to have a plan for if it doesn't work and if it doesn't work, they got to go because yes, they're high producing, but then they're also a higher percentage of the tank, which makes your somatic cell count worse. Lots of reasons for that high-producing chronic cow to go.
Emily: Yes, she's probably not making you much money with how high the cell count is. It can be hard. I know it can be hard. The high producers, the pets, it's hard to let them go.
Bradley: People don't think it's real world. Well, it's definitely real world here. No doubt about it.
Joe: One of the things I wanted to get into, and Brad and I somewhat discussed earlier this week is we have other markers for milk cleanliness, somatic cell being one thing we look at, and there's other things that give you premiums or help you with your milk check. Brad, have you been struggling with some of these other markers as well?
Bradley: Yes. LPC, that's been the one that we've been fighting with lately. We got sematic cell count issues, but we also got an LPC sometimes it rears its ugly head and then I get that under control and then the next day it's back up again. That's a tough one. I thought I had it. It was high and then I got it down low and now I looked again and it's like, "Oh man, now it's back up to where it was before."
I think I know the issue with it, and there's some management things that we probably have to take care of from that standpoint to get that back under control or where it should be. We will, but it's not easy. Definitely not easy. That one is a big one.
I will be honest, it's really we're running out of hot water at certain times. Some days the pipeline is getting cleaned with water that's not very hot and it's not taking care of it. At least that's what I suspect. That's what I suspect.
Joe: That's a tricky one. Probably my least favorite question that I get from dairy farmers is what do I do about my high LPC? So everyone's on the same page, that's a lab pasteurized count. Basically, it's an estimate of how much bacteria in your milk that can survive pasteurization. Usually, that is not connected to mastitis or bacteria from the cow because those bacteria cannot survive pasteurization, usually.
What we're worried about is usually a milking systems issue, like Brad was saying, a cleaning problem. My number one go-to is hot water, like Brad said. What's going on with hot water? Is your water hot enough, first of all, is the number one thing to check. I think we all are very aware and for whatever reason, if you're not, if you haven't been in a milk house, you need to be careful with the hot water in there. It is crazy hot and it's supposed to be, and it's for a good reason. That's one of the things I check right away.
It's a really frustrating thing to get a handle on, but it can be really, really frustrating and it can be a really small problem that's really, really hard to spot, like a crack in your vacuum line or very, very hairline crack in your milk line. Things that you just have to check the entire system to figure out, oil rings, elbows, places where things can grow and have some issues. It's mostly a cleaning process issue, but man, is that frustrating thing to get a handle on. It does affect your milk check quite a bit.
Emily: Just a brief sidebar on the hot water. Yes, it's very, very hot. Your tank should have a warning sticker on it that the water is hot. If it has worn out, I recommend that you get another one on there because as soon as Joe brought that up, I had a flashback and I vividly remember the label on ours in our milk house on my farm growing up. That sticker was very effective because I was afraid of the water heater, which was probably good. Just had to throw that in there as a reminder, especially if you have kids on your farm, if those warning stickers are wearing away or peeling off, get those replaced. I had to throw some safety in.
Joe: That's fair. Like I said, if you're unaware of how hot the water is and you just turn the hot water on to wash your hands or something in a milk house, you're going to be very surprised when you put your hands in that water. Just something to be aware of for sure.
Bradley: We need the employees to utilize the hot water more efficiently. The problem is, is that once they get done milking, then we're trying to wash the system, the milk truck might be there washing a bulk tank. They're trying to wash down the parlor with hot water. We're just using a whole bunch of hot water at one time and it just runs out. We probably need another hot water heater to make it work. That's the problem. Brad has some management issues, so I need to figure out.
Emily: Brad, you mean you're not the perfect manager?
Bradley: No, I am not the perfect manager.
Emily: Bradley exposed.
Bradley: chuckles] Definitely not.
Joe: Exposed. Unfortunately, it's one of the last places I look when we talk about somatic cell count or LPC issues is people because most of the time your employees are doing an excellent job and they've been doing it for a long time, but it is something that you need to check.
All these things that we've talked about before on this podcast and with Emily when we're talking about timing, the milking procedure, and getting all of that stuff right when we're talking how we're prepping and just making sure that it's all going smoothly is a big deal and it can affect your somatic cell. There's a lot of other things to check first, and then you can check that later when we've eliminated the big things like our chronic cows and issues there that are causing the problem.
Bradley: We'll definitely keep you updated on what happens and if Brad can actually figure this out really fast because I need it needs to. I got to get it under control soon, like yesterday.
Joe: Yes. just a glimpse into the fact that the dairy at Morris, while it's a University dairy, we do operate in the real world. We have real-world problems and can't always solve them immediately. We'll keep you guys updated. Emily, wrap us up. You're back. I'm so excited that I don't have to wrap today.
Emily: Yes, yes, since I am back and I am in fact alive and okay. If you have questions, comments, or scathing rebuttals about today's episode, you can email those to the moosroom@umn.edu.
Joe: That's T-H-E-MO-O-S-R-O-O-M @umn.edu.
Emily: If you have a question of your own that you'd like us to answer on a future episode of the Moos Room, you can call and leave us a voicemail at 612-624-3610. You can find us on Twitter @UMNMoosRoom and @UMNFarmSafety. You can find Bradley on Instagram @UMNWROCdairy, and you can learn more about what we're up to in extension by visiting our website, extension.umn.edu. That's all, folks.
Joe: Bye.
Emily: Bye.
Bradley: Bye.
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[00:23:44] [END OF AUDIO]
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