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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to grazing grass
podcast, episode 140.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: you will
not be successful as a, as a grazer, if
you can't learn to have an appreciation
and understanding for the, the nutritional
value of quality grazed forage and
what it can do for the performance of
an animal in a relatively economic way
you have to develop that confidence.
Cal: You're listening to the
grazing grass, podcast, sharing
information and stories of
grass-based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's show.
We have Ted Miller.
of Delta dairy.
It's located in Louisiana.
Uh, just a side note on Louisiana.
My wife and I say it differently.
And now I'm confused about which
way is the correct way, because
we've talked about it so much.
So we're going with Louisiana.
At least I am for now.
Anyway, Ted has a fairly
large grass-based dairy.
In the lower Mississippi Delta.
Very interesting.
We talk about their move from
Pennsylvania to Louisiana.
We talk about how they're
daring managing for ages.
Et cetera.
It's a really good episode
for the overgrazing section.
We dive into virtual callers.
We've talked a lot about virtual
fence callers on past episodes.
Here's the dairy that's using them.
They started using them last spring.
And they're using Halter brand,
which is a little bit different.
We've talked about Vence brand
and I think No Fence brand.
But Halter is a, another brand, that
Ted's using in Louisiana and he talks
about how good or how bad it's working.
You'll have to listen and find out.
On the bonus segment for grazing grass
insiders, we talk about planting cool
season annuals, how he's doing it.
And how's that working for him and
why he chose while he's planting.
Like I said before a good
episode, I really enjoyed it.
As you all know, I'm a fan
of grass-based dairies.
So I'm always excited to talk to them.
And I think there's something in here
for a beef producer, sheep producer,
goat producer and if you're a dairy,
obviously you want to stick around.
So I think you'd need to catch it.
Uh, before we get to Ted though,
10 seconds about my farm.
I think I told you last week or the week
before I have a Spanish buck for sale.
Shockingly, no one has called to buy him.
Um, just in case you didn't
catch those episodes.
I have a Spanish buck for sale.
He's a really good buck.
I'm really happy with his kids.
And recently he's learned a new trick.
He can get out of whatever
fence I put him in.
So if you would like to have like a.
A trick Spanish goat, Spanish buck,
get out whatever opinion you want.
I've got one for him.
Um, I'm holding on to him, uh,
just until the next auction.
And I'll take him over there.
I did find me another buck I'm
on breed them to a BOR buck
this year and see how that goes.
See if I can put a little bit more.
With a little bit more meat on those kids.
And if you're unfamiliar, I have
some Spanish doughs and recently.
I purchased some fainting goats.
So we're going to see
how those crosses go.
And see if I like them.
I've wanted fainting
goats since I was a kid.
And I found opportunity, price was right.
And I purchased just a
handful just to try out.
I am a little surprised by their stature.
I knew they were small,
but they're pretty small.
Um, really thick though.
So.
We'll see how it goes.
I, in fact, was looking
at a buck to go with them.
But when I looked at the
buck, I was not a fan of him.
So I bought the does.
And then I was able to find a
Boer buck that I really liked.
So I've got those set
up or I've got them out.
Um, I won't be putting the buck with
the does till closer to December.
So I can have those late April kids.
Uh, 10 seconds about the podcast.
If you're not part of the grazing grass
community on Facebook, I suggest you
joined and you can just go Facebook, do
a search for Grazing Grass Community.
Should pop up.
It's a very positive community, uh, for
people wondering about grazing grass.
Different Grazie method.
Tools you use.
Marketing, et cetera, it's available.
And I have to say it's a
really good group of people.
Very positive.
One thing I do not see, there is the
bickering I see in a lot of other
groups and we're going to do our
best to keep it that way, because
I want this to be a positive place.
For you to ask your questions and get
answers from people doing it as well as
have other discussions along that line.
So if you're currently a member
of the grazing grass community.
Thank you.
Thank you for keeping it
a positive learning space.
And if you're not there.
I suggest you join.
Uh, great conversation happens there.
Enough of that.
Let's talk to Ted.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Ted, we want to
welcome you to the grazing grass podcast.
We're excited.
You're here today.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Thank you.
Glad to be here.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444:
Ted to get started.
Can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and your operation?
I'm
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Sure.
My name is Ted Miller.
I'm married to my wife, Melissa.
We have four basically grown children.
They range in age from 23 down to 18,
and we're located in northeast Louisiana,
about 50 miles west of the Mississippi
River and about 70 miles south of the
Arkansas border on the right on the center
of the lower Mississippi River Delta.
We've been here
for For 15 years moved, moved
our dairy down here in 2009.
We're dairying in central Pennsylvania
for about 7 years prior to that, and
a smaller grass based dairy up there.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: To just
get started with that, why get you
interested in a grass based dairy?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Okay
to back up a little bit farther my wife
and I started in, in full time farming
in in 2000, we purchased a small farm
in central, central Pennsylvania
that was it was actually a, a a
bankrupt hog farm is what it was.
I was in the hog business before that.
I worked for for an integrator
there in Pennsylvania.
So I was familiar with that industry.
And we had the opportunity to
purchase this farm in 2000.
We didn't didn't have the equity we
needed to do that, but through FSA real
estate loans and just an opportunity
to kind of convince the lender we might
have an opportunity to help them out
with their situation, we were blessed
in being able to purchase the farm.
So we started we renovated the,
the hog facilities there and we
started Contract finishing pigs for
a, for a local integration company.
They're in Pennsylvania.
They were marketed at
Hatfield Quality Meats and
Southeastern PA.
So that was kind of my background
growing up in central Pennsylvania.
I didn't come from a dairy, but I
worked in high school for for, for
dairymen in the area and was familiar
with the industry as it looked there.
And, and enjoyed that as As the rest
of, you know, had a, had a really had a
passion for all elements of agriculture,
but was aware of the dairy business.
Didn't really see myself probably in
that industry at that time but after
we get started there, I continue to
work for the integrator and we finished
pigs on the side and we had about 120
acres of pretty, pretty rugged land.
They're not great row crop ground,
but good pasture ground and
wondered, you know, how can we
utilize this land a little better?
And ironically, in my travels for work,
I traveled past a farm in a neighboring
county that was set up by the American
Farmland Trust as a demonstration farm
for a New Zealand grass based dairy
model.
Very interesting.
It was, it was odd to me as I drove past
this place and their were Holstein cows
out grazing in a very small building with
a bulk tank sticking out the end of it.
So I thought, That looks like dairy,
but it doesn't look like dairy.
So I had, you know, I was, I was, my,
my curiosity was kind of spiked and
I, I stopped and talked to the got to
talk to the, to the tenants there who
actually was some, who was related to some
folks I knew from kind of my hometowns.
We made some connection there, but ended
up being a family that, that was served as
quite a mentor role for me as we kind of
journeyed off into this grass-based dairy.
So I, I looked at that farm and
thought, you know, we could do
that here on a smaller scale.
So maybe we could milk a few cows
on a seasonal grass based dairy.
I wouldn't have to work away.
I could stay on the farm full
time, that type of thing.
So we, we did that in 2003.
We started milking 60 cows, 60
crossbred cows, in a little retrofitted
Swing 12 parlor we put in a building
that existed there on the farm.
And we started off into the dairy business
along with the, with the hog finishing.
And we quickly saw that the, that the,
the grass based dairy seemed to have
a lot more growth potential didn't,
you know, didn't have the depreciation
attached to it that the hog finishing did.
You know, so we thought, you know, we can
really grow this but we can't do it here.
And the same person I mentioned who served
as a mentor for me contacted him about
his thoughts on how I might go about
growing or relocating in Pennsylvania.
And he said that really, if you want
to get serious about growing, you
probably need to move out of state.
And he told me about an individual,
Charlie Opitz, who was, was a retired
dairyman who sold out of his portion
of his family dairy enterprise and
was looking to put a larger scale
model together down here in Louisiana
on some land that he had acquired.
Kind of, kind of to model that
New Zealand type production
model here in the States.
So as my, as my wife looked over my
shoulder and read that email that day,
she said, you can move me anywhere you
want to in Pennsylvania, but you're
never going to take me to Louisiana.
And she's been a Louisiana
resident for 15 years now.
So interesting how things transpire,
but In, in 2007, 8, 9, in that range,
we were we, we considered, you know,
we looked at the options of selling our
farm up there and moving down here and,
and really it was the, the providential
hand of the Lord allowed those things to
happen and we were, we're able to kind
of move forward with that, our farm sold.
Sold easily.
We did well with that and we're able to,
to, to move down here and, and we
started just on cropland here in the
Delta and you had to build a parlor,
convert to pasture establish some
irrigation, those types of things.
I mean, there was nothing here, no
fencing, no laneways, no nothing.
So it was quite a journey for
several years following that, just
putting the infrastructure into.
To put a model together here.
But now, to make a long story short,
we're here we're milking around 600
head on about 1200 acres fenced,
about 700 acres of that's irrigated.
Opitz and his wife have since sold
out of their, their portion of
the partnership we had formed, and
it's just my wife and I now and our
family that continues to operate.
Delta dairy.
Sure.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Now
I'm going to ask a real, I don't
know about a simple question.
I'm trying to think about my
listeners and they may not be familiar
with a New Zealand style dairy.
So when you say in Pennsylvania,
there's this New Zealand style and
then that's what you were trying to do.
what makes it New Zealand style?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Yeah.
It's going to be a dairy production
model that, that does not resemble real
closely the typical production model
here in North America, where you would
have whether it be a freestyle setup
or maybe even a dry lot setup in the
Southwest high levels of production.
A lot of You know, high levels of feeding
cows housed, manure handled, those types
of things which would be the typical
dairy production model here in the States.
New Zealand is, is quite the opposite.
Of course, they're a
maritime climate over there.
Beautiful pasture land.
They're able to grow cool season
forages pretty much year round.
So their forage quality is very high.
So they take advantage of that with,
with dairy production largely, along
with other ruminant production, but
they there's a lot of dairies over
there that are grass based and, and
that would be a dairy that the cows
derive the majority of their, their
forage intake needs from grazed pasture.
In many cases, they they calve seasonally
so their whole herd calves at one time
of the year, usually, usually their
spring and then they would, their
lactation curve would follow the, the,
the growth and quality curve of the, of
the cool season forages for the year.
And then is that.
becomes less than they would
dry off for a couple months and
start the whole cycle over again.
We don't have some of the
advantages they have in, in climate.
But I would argue that maybe this is
one of the areas that's maybe as closely
aligned with that as anywhere in the U.
S.
Aside from extreme temperatures,
especially on the high side.
We're a lot hotter than they
get over, over there, but.
With the ability here at our
latitude, we can grow grass 10 months
of the year, graze at 12 months
and then having some, some fairly
shallow water available, plentiful
water available here in the Delta.
We can irrigate these pastures,
so our, our, our forage production
potential is, is pretty high.
Which helps, but then the other
side of that is, you know, like I
mentioned, they, they don't have to
deal with high temperatures and we
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: for
a good portion of the year where you
know, we're over 90 degrees really, you
know, conditions that aren't extremely
conducive for, or very well conducive
for a, for a lactating dairy cow.
So, We actually calve in the fall.
We, we're just coming through as
we're speaking here in October.
We're, we're just finishing
up our calving season.
So we start, we calve in late
September, early October, and
then we milk through until until.
Late July, and then we'll dry off
for the months of August and early
September, which is the which is the
least friendly time of year here because
it's extremely hot and forage quality
is very poor and those types of things.
So, so grass based, seasonal production,
cows outside, minimal housing.
Minimal feed handling virtually no
manure handling much lower production
we're going to get half the production
or maybe less than what a, what a
confinement Holstein cow is going
to produce here in North America,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah,
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: you know,
so, so that, that's, that's kind of a,
a description of the differences of what
the New Zealand model would look like
compared to, to, the North American model.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: and you went
to September October calving to avoid
that hot humid weather as well as
take advantage of cool season forages.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
That's right.
Yeah, really, you know, the thing
about the South, we can, we can
produce a lot of forage and a big
chunk of that is like dry cow feed.
You know, we, so we
produce a lot of
mediocre forage.
It's interesting dynamic especially
when you're dealing with something
that demands higher quality.
So we really need to target that, you
know, and try to get, get those winter
annual forages that we can plant here
over our, over our warm season perennials
and take advantage of those cooler
temperatures you know, breeding cows
when it's nice and cool in December here,
all those things that, that working with
mother nature, not against her, that's for
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
When you, you moved from PA to
Louisiana, that's a, a big change.
Did you go, did you take your cows
from Pennsylvania down, or did you sell
everything in Pennsylvania, go down
to Louisiana, and then, I guess you,
I may have answered my own question,
you didn't move cows down, you didn't
have a barn when you moved down there.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
That's a really good question.
We, we actually did, did move our cows
down.
We, we, we sold, we moved
our cows and machinery.
Okay.
And would have sold our real estate
and and of course our fixed assets
up there but everything else did come
down and and that's that was a chore.
I'd probably only want to do one time
We were very we're very blessed in that.
I forget how many How many loads of
cattle ended up being with Youngstalk
and we moved about 100 milking down.
So it was
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
100 milking plus, plus supporting
Youngstalk and we're very blessed.
We didn't even have a, a single
animal, even carry a leg off a trailer.
So we were very thankful that
that went as well as it did.
Don't think I'd want to try it again and,
and, and hope for those same results.
But it was interesting.
We, we moved them down
in September, which.
Is an interesting month down here
because it can be very late summer, hot
type weather.
Or less likely, but can be.
Moving into kind of a fall you
know, a fall, more seasonal type,
more comfortable weather that
particular year in 2009, September
was, it was exceptionally cool here.
So,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh,
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
it really worked out nice.
It was kind of very little
transition for the cows.
But then, of course, as time went by,
I think the genetics have definitely.
You know, as genetics do, they
sort themselves out and you know,
the ones that can acclimate to
the warmer climate do better.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: So, so you
were able to move those cows down when
they were dry before they were in milk.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
Actually, we spring calved that year.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh,
oh, okay.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
as you bring this up.
I guess I tried to bury some
of the stuff in my mind so I
wouldn't have to think of it.
But, but yeah, we, we,
we spring calved in 2009.
So we had a, we had a herd of cows.
It was about About halfway
through lactation or, or more
probably try two thirds stale.
So they came down and then prior
to that, 2008, we, we purchased
a bunch of open heifers out in
New York state, Holstein, Jersey.
They were kind of some by products of
some of the, the larger dairies up there
were breeding their heifers, Jersey.
So, so we had a two way
cross we had available.
We could purchase these as open
animals, brought them down.
And bred them the winter of 08, 09, and
then they were set to calve in that fall.
So
here we are in September of 09 with
a half stale herd, heifers calving,
facility, you know, never quite ready.
You know how that goes.
And that's a, that's a fall.
We don't need to need to repeat anytime
soon, but we're, we're, we're, we made it.
We're here to talk about it.
So we're
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Yeah,
well, that's, that's great.
So, we, we dairied with my grandparents.
And then we, or my dad put in his own
dairy two miles away from my grandparents.
And of course, we were milking year round.
So.
We moved those cows down as soon
as we finished one morning milking.
We separate them off,
hauled them down two miles.
And then we evening milk
down here and it was a mess.
So, and we were going two miles,
so I can only imagine the logistics
and how it all worked out to
move them across the country.
So.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
Yeah, it was interesting.
Yeah.
But, you know, cattle were.
Cattle are resilient.
It's, it's
amazing how you take a,
take a crossbred cow.
She's a pretty, pretty, hardy girl.
And you know, they, they, they took
it well, but it there's definitely
a few wrinkles and it takes a
little time to smooth them all
out, but they all do eventually.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Well,
you mentioned crossbred there,
and you mentioned you'd purchased
some Jersey hosting cows.
What kind of breeds are you going for?
What kind of bulls are you using to
get cows to excel in your system?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Yeah.
It's, it's, it's an
interesting story in itself.
When we got started back in 2003 in
Pennsylvania, when we first started in
the dairy business, we, we you know,
we had those Holstein Jersey type.
Animals that were pretty available
when you love crossbreds and
you want to keep crossbreeding.
But how do you do it?
That's the big question.
How
do you do it in a way that makes sense?
You know, so we really didn't
know what we were doing.
So we, we actually for probably, well,
every year we were up there, we would
take and we set up all of our March
calvers, which would be like our first
30 day calvers in our calving season.
And we set them up like
a precinct off sync.
And did a
timed AI, and then we just put some
cleanup bulls in a few days later.
So we're able to utilize some AI
without it extending, you know, real
far into June and stuff like that.
So as far as genetics, we didn't
know what we wanted to do.
So we just, we just start, we just
picked a breed and we just bred
with a different breed every year.
Like we, we use New
Zealand Frisian, we use.
Swedish Red, Montbeliard Brown Swiss New
Zealand Jersey, really noth everything
we could find that wasn't North American
is, is kind of what we, what we did.
So, then we come down here and we switch
to a fall seasonal calving schedule, so
we'll be breeding everything in December.
Well, this is an area
where there's no dairy.
So there's no AI support
work or anything like,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh,
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
and it's December and there's more
important things to do, like go deer
hunting and all that kind of stuff.
So you can't find any help to breed cows.
So we're like, what are we going to do?
Well, we just, we figured we would we got
our hands on some crossbred bulls and we
just bull breed till we figure this out.
Well, that was 15 years
ago and we're still.
Just bull breed and everything.
So we, we actually been, we've been
completely closed for about 10 years.
So we've took it, take all that genetic
diversity that we kind of put together
hodgepodge, and that was our herd.
And then we've just selected bulls.
out of there from cow lines that we like.
Try to be as diverse as
we can with those lines.
And we've just we've just
used a composite, internally
produced, crossbred bull.
They do a great job getting cows
bred quickly and we like what we're,
We like what we're working with.
So, these are all things that the, that
the industry kind of shuns, but, you
know, it's just, it's just what we do.
You know, and I'm, and I'm not saying it's
right or wrong not here to, to, you know,
to make kind of some kind of statement,
but it, it has worked well for us.
And we're real pleased with
what we're, what we're seeing.
So it's, it's pretty simple breeding.
Pretty simple.
We just put the bulls in Montbeliard.
Yeah.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: doesn't
mean it may work for someone else.
It may not work, but it's working
for you, which so as you, you closed
your herd about 10 years ago, and you
look at your herd, can you see some
of those different breed influences
carrying out that may be more prevalent,
prevalent now that's worked better?
Or is it?
Meshed and merged into its own
type more, and you couldn't really
say, Oh, that's from the Swedish
red we add, or the Montbell,
Montbellaire, I'm not saying that.
Yes,
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Yeah.
Yeah, it's interesting.
You know, you'd, you'd, you'd love to
think that, you know, we're going to have
this perfectly aligned composite cross
that's, you know, evenly distributed
across all these great breeds.
And we, we both know
that that doesn't work
that way.
But it, it, it does kind of to a point.
But it is interesting.
Yeah.
Some of the.
For example our larger cattle
seem to leave a little quicker.
our
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: our brown
Swiss Montbeliard, those that were heavily
influenced that way for whatever reason.
It wasn't something that we
manipulated or anything like that.
It does seem like we've, we've
kind of, settled into a little
shorter, stouter, thicker type.
Animal maybe a little bit more
Friesian type animal maybe that
stature and a little thicker like
that you know, that seems to, and I'm
guessing that's climate that probably
drives what stays you know, so our,
our, our typical cows now gonna be
probably a thousand pounds when she
calves and maybe Maybe 1150, you
know, that, that dry off something
like that.
So it's kind of a medium sized cow, but
there is some, there, there's plenty
of diversity and, and unpredictability,
I guess you'd say that goes with, you
know, that many breeds represented, you
do, you do, you'll have a calf that's
like, that looks like a purebred Jersey.
Where'd that come from?
We
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
know, for years, but you know, so
it's, I guess it's kinda, we, we're
taking the genetic approach of
really just kind of letting stuff.
Do what it's going to do and
what's going to thrive here thrive.
And hopefully that's a, that's
an animal that you know, that's,
that's acceptable for us.
And so far that seems to be the case.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: I this terms
not gonna be correct or anything, but I
like to think of as you're doubling down
on your cows I know people talk about
you know, you can take three generation
of bulls and just completely change your
cow herd Well, what if your cow herd,
and this is more towards beef people,
what if your cow herd is what you like?
Double down on your cows, keep your own
bulls, and then you're, you're expanding
the influence of genetics of your best
cows in your herd, and keeping that in.
Because you may not want to change
your herd in three generations.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Oh yeah.
That, yeah, that's such
an accurate statement.
That's absolutely a lot of our philosophy.
You know, we, we want to see, you
know, we want to take those traits.
of the cows that are at the
middle of that bell shaped curve.
We don't want, you know,
we're not breeding for milk.
We're not, you know,
we have a minimum that we, we would,
we would tolerate as far as production.
We're not breeding for
the top end of milk.
We're not, we're not really breeding
for the top end of anything.
We want those ones that
are thriving the best here,
you know, and then that even
brings into the discussion
you know, like epigenetics and
what effect the climate has on genetic
expression, which I've found to be.
Absolutely intriguing.
The same, the same genetics up north.
mature and behave differently down
here than what they did up there.
Which just blew my mind.
A couple of examples of that would be
you know, we would always de bud our
calves up there at about eight weeks old.
And, and we came down here and started
calving and in these conditions especially
the last trimester of gestation, it's.
You know, 95 degrees every
day.
Whether that's the impact, whether
that's the, the, the, the, the factor
that's affecting or not, I don't know.
But these calves now we have to,
we have to be out there around 12
weeks before we can even feel a bud
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
Just really yeah, I found it to be
incredibly interesting and then the
other end of that is on our replacement
heifers You know, we would always breed
it, you know 15 months or something
like that up there and you know, Kevin
it around two years and here these
animals They they hold good flesh.
They look fine.
They just look so immature Way
too immature to breed at that age.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: we
actually had, it took us a few years to
kind of come on board with this, but we
actually have switched to a, we breed at
two years old and cab at three years old.
Again, just something the industry
would not tolerate at all.
But it's just, What happens to work here
and again, is that, is that some, some
sort of epigenetic expression based on,
you know, what the climate does, you
know, impact, how it impacts the cow?
I don't know, but we're just trying
to observe these things and take
note of them and, and, and follow
them rather than try to bend them to
conform what we want to do, you know.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh yes,
and I would assume you're growing
your heifers out on forage only,
so that's going to reduce that
growth rate somewhat, depending on
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Basically.
Yeah.
A
lot of grazing.
You know, one thing about the Southern
forage model is there's some real
flat spots in forage quality for
anything like a young heifer or a
lactating cow and fall is a, is a real
tough time as far as forage quality.
So we will keep our, our calves
will be on free choice grain.
The first, Winter, then they'll go
on all forage at about six months old.
And then we actually bring those
yearlings we actually put them back
on cell feeders for a few months
that first fall when they're, when
they're one year old, because it
seems to be a very susceptible time.
For them as far as holding condition
on very low quality forage.
In fact, one thing that's
really interesting is we run our
yearlings with our two year olds.
Both are open groups so we will graze
them together through the summer.
And then as you're moving into late
summer and fall and forage quality
really falls apart, those two year
olds just stay butterball slick and the
yearlings really start going backwards.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Yeah.
Oh,
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: maybe
I'm, I'm guessing just maybe rumen size,
you know, the, the bigger heifer could,
can, can take more low quality forage in
and, and, and, and metabolize that in the,
in the younger heifer can, I'm guessing
but again, we don't, we, we can't answer
exactly why, but we sure have observed it.
And we're going to try to
react to it appropriately
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
negative effect.
You know,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: I'd love
to talk more about the cows, but
let's transition just a little
bit and talk about your forages.
What you're grazing, I know
you moved down there in 09.
Yes, and 09 what did it look like for
forage base that you were starting from?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: as
far as the forage base, we were, we
were starting from there was nothing
here because it was row crop land.
And we were converting row
crop land to, to pasture.
That was a journey in itself because we
thought that you know, if you're familiar
with the South, warm season perennials
are kind of king, Bermuda grass,
Bahia grass, those types of things.
And typically you're going to
overseed with, with rye grass or, or
a small grain for a window of higher
quality forage in the wintertime.
But, you know, we thought here
in North Louisiana, surely.
We can get fescue to grow because
if we can get a cool season
perennial to grow this far south
That's the holy grail right now You
have you have that quality and you
have a perennial form and we we tried
that for Ten years, but eight years
anyway, probably trying to get fescue.
How are we gonna keep fescue here?
You plant it that looks great for like
two years and then it it just Falls apart.
It
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: can't
seem to handle the length of time of, of
hot, humid weather, hot, humid nights.
The summer is just too
long and hard on it.
But boy, we tried.
We spent a lot of money, a lot of time,
but we, we gave up on that when we
realized that we couldn't make it work.
So we went to, to an improved
hybrid Bermuda as our warm season
perennial base across the whole farm.
Russell Bermuda is
actually what we're using.
And And then we, we we overseed with
broadcast ryegrass and drilled oats
on about about two thirds of the
acreage for, for winter grazing, winter
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
bring the quality in.
We can grow clover here.
Clover is a big component.
Really you know, especially as you,
as you, as your window of high quality
forage goes away at either end, you
have that clover quality or that clover
component in there and you can carry
that quality out several more weeks.
Especially in the late spring.
So we're, we welcome that and we try
to enhance that as much as we can
through seed setting and, and things.
In fact, we got several years
ago, we actually got in the, in
the honeybee business as well.
We could just to try to
pollinate our clover better.
So we have and.
Like, like dairy farmers do if,
if milking 20 cows is fun, you
know, 200 is going to be a blast.
So, you know, we can't have two beehives.
We have, we have a couple hundred now
and they're off the farm and stuff.
But they are, I think our objective,
original objective was to, to see
more honeybees in the pastures.
We've definitely accomplished that.
And I think it's had a huge
positive impact on our, on our
clover seed setting capability.
So.
that that's something
we're really happy with.
It doesn't cost
money, you know, to want to, you want
to try to you know, Initiate that
as much as you can as far as that
self seeding of the, of the legume.
So we're not, we're not actually buying
any clover seed right now to overseed.
We're, we're just relying on on
on the self seeding of the plants
that are out there and then the
cows, they do a great job of moving
those, those hard seeds around when
you, you know, with, with aggressive
rotational grazing and things like that.
So, yeah, that's, that's pretty
much the, The basics of what
our forage program looks like.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: and then Well,
first off before we move off the forage.
Are you planting any warm
season annuals in there?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Yeah,
it's interesting you ask that question.
We're, we're not, and it, it
is, it is a climate that you
know, sort of Sudan would be, does
great here.
Crabgrass, those types of things.
It's, it's interesting in the South,
at least this far South, where you have
water anywhere you're irrigating, those.
The warm season is long enough
that the, that the crabgrass and
some millets and even Johnson grass
tends to really come on its own.
So
we've, we're, we're really
really try to leverage that
volunteer summer annual grasses
you know, that, that are, you
know, largely considered weeds in
some circles, but is, is, is very
digestible forage, especially.
In the warm season.
So we try to leverage
that as much as we can.
We, we we, we definitely want to
see those forages coming and the
water, the water helps bring them.
So we try to promote
that as much as we can.
And, and that's definitely in June
and early July, as we're getting
toward the end of lactation, those
are, those are definitely you can make
more milk on summer annuals than we
can Bermuda grass that time of year.
More digestible.
No
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah
with your your forages and your grazing.
How are you managing your cows
and Where they're grazing?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Yeah.
Without having a map up to show you which
would make it a little bit easier, but to
kind of describe our main dairy platform,
we would have our milking center is right
in the middle of Of about 1000 acre block.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, okay.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: and then
on either side of of the milk milking
center that milking parlor we have we
have 2 of our larger pivot center pivots.
1 is a 300 acre pivot on the east side.
And a 200 acre pivot on the West side.
So 2 big circles.
With the milk parlor right in the
center and then we would move out and
we could, you know, we have those have
those fields pretty much divided up
kind of pie shape type configuration
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: we could,
we had a, our cow lane went around.
There was a circle on under each pivot
and off of that circle lane, we could.
We could hit whatever paddocks we
wanted to and works, works pretty well.
We, we typically have have not
done a lot of polywire subdivision.
We kind of set the paddock sizes to
what our milking herd was going to be.
And then we, we basically
managed residuals with leader
follower groups or, or heifer
groups bull group, those types of things.
And it worked pretty well.
It wasn't, Wasn't optimal with grass
utilization, but it was it, it, it got
the job done as far as basically getting
the residuals we were looking for.
Now I say all that in the last, in
the last year, last spring, to be
exact, we, we we put virtual fence
collars on our cows, which has
really been a game changer for us.
We we took out a lot of our cross fences
and have much bigger paddocks now that
we just You know, we can break those
cows virtually you know, into whatever
paddock sizes we, we want them to be.
So that, that's kind of how we're we're
managing the cows now, but we are, we're
able to rotate more aggressively take
residuals down to the, to the levels we
want to, more so than we could before.
But but yeah, to, to, to answer your
question simply would be we want
to, we want to rotate, you know,
we're, we're rotationally grazing.
You know, as aggressively as we can
moving cattle as often as we can.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: You
know, to, to try to try to get that
fastest regrowth that we can get and
again, without, without going in and
taking that second bite, you know, in
that grass before it's able to, to, to
regrow, you know, basically basically,
we're trying to mimic the Buffalo herd.
We want to keep the cows moving.
We want to have maximum pressure
for the shortest duration period
of time, and then the longest
rest possible before we come back.
Seems to be not only the, the best from
a, from a forage utilization standpoint
for, for cow performance, but also, you
know, from a soil health standpoint too.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: One thing
we didn't talk about earlier.
How many times a day are you milking?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
We are milking twice.
Yeah, we, we we, we, we start out
with twice a day when we calve and
then we actually do the last 60 days.
60 to 80 days, the lactation, we,
we have been the past several years
moving to a to a modified like a three
and two type schedule where we'll
milk once, once one
day, twice the next day.
And it's, that's worked really
well because we don't seem
to lose much production from
what we would have been at.
You know, somatic cell still stays
in line more so than it seems like
it did when we tried just going
cold turkey to like once a day.
Okay.
You know, and it, and allows us to
manage manage our labor a little bit more
efficiently and those types of things.
So we've really enjoyed
that, that modified schedule
the last quarter of lactation.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Well, let's
go ahead and jump back to your fencing
just a little bit I want to get
that in there about milking Schedule
because I just wasn't sure about it
I'd assume twice a day, but I see
I follow a guy on YouTube that does
once a day milking, which I think is
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Yeah.
Yeah.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Go ahead.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Now I
was just going to say it is, it's very
you know, and we've, we're drawn to,
to more of the less frequent milking.
It seems like, you know, You know,
certain times of the year, as we
start to warm up, you know, somatic
cell can be more of a challenge.
So we're trying to, you know,
manage against that, making
sure that stays in line.
But, but yeah, that's, that kind of
goes with the, with the grazing mindset.
We can, we can, we can utilize grass
more be able to be more labor efficient
you know, and still get a level of
milk production that's acceptable.
I think our margin in this type of models.
Better with, in some cases,
less frequent milking.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah,
well, let's transition to the
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cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: And we we
just talked a little bit about it was
your virtual fence collars So I think
you said you started that Last spring.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
That's correct.
Yeah.
This past April of 2024 is when we
what, when we call it our first cows
and a little bit of, a little bit
of background on that whole journey.
About two years ago, I reached out to a
New Zealand company by the name of Halter.
They were, they were a young virtual
fence company at that time, just
been in business for a few years.
Kind of, that's where kind of
everybody's been in that space.
You know, it's been pretty new
that since that's come out.
And I read about them in the
New Zealand dairy exporter and,
and thought, I'll reach out and
see if I can talk to somebody.
I'm sure it's not available in the
States, but it'd be cool to talk to them.
So, Started, started talking
with an individual from there.
And as it turned out, they
aspired to come to the States.
They weren't here yet, but they, they
aspired to bring their collars over
here at some point in the future.
So, you know, we started talking
about what that would look like
here and all those types of things.
So again, to make a long story short,
it was two years of that really year
and a half of them kind of getting
to a point where they could launch
over here that worked out good.
It kind of gave us an
opportunity to really.
Digest that whole thing and say, okay,
what's this maybe going to look like here?
Is this something that's
going to fit for us?
You know, it was nice to be able to
kind of take that slow and methodical.
Still being an unknown, you don't
know, but you at least you can
think about a little longer, you
know, so as, as they, when they were
ready this spring, we were ready.
So, so they, we, we set up the
infrastructure here, which is
just 2, 2 towers on the farm to
communicate with the callers, their
solar power that both the callers.
And the towers are solar powered
and and the towers make their own
wifi as far as their communication
with the, with the caller.
So it's, it's pretty independent of, you
know, you don't need wifi across the farm
or something like anything like that.
They do rely on us.
I think it's a cell signal maybe
that, that lets them do that.
But But yeah, these are, these are
solar powered collar that allow you to
virtually break and control the cattle
as far as anywhere you could, could
polywire cattle, you can, you know, with
your phone, you can just draw the breaks
and, and hold the cattle virtually.
They also will virtually shift
the cattle from paddock to the
milking parlor or from paddock to
paddock, which is a great feature.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: the,
and it's a, it's a, watching the
cows adapt to this has been really,
Really just an amazing experience.
And I, I guess I need to give the cows
credit for being a lot smarter now
than what I always thought they were.
But but they actually, there's
a, there's a series of prompts
that they get through tone.
Vibration, pulsing vibration and, and
in, in an extreme situation of shock
that, that initiate the cattle to, to
move a certain direction and you'll take
them out a certain gate and it'll take
them to the milking parlor, which is,
which is pretty cool because, you know,
you can set up what time you want to
start milking and then you would, you
would schedule your shift accordingly
so that those cattle would shift and
be at the parlor waiting for you.
When it's time to milk, which is a,
which is a nice feature for sure.
A labor saver.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Right,
because always when we dairied, you
know, someone came down a half hour
to an hour, if it's summer, before
milking time to get the cows in.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
that's right.
That's right.
Yep.
Yeah.
So either, you know, that guy's getting
less sleep than everybody else is.
Or in our cases, sometimes our
guys are and we're thankful for it.
They're, they're pretty
aggressive and want to be here.
So I try to explain to them that I'm
going to go over earlier, get the cows.
You guys come over certain time.
Well, I go over, then they go over.
So then, you know, you know what that is.
That's.
A couple guys waiting around
at the parlor that you're
paying to do nothing for a while.
So,
so it, it has really made that,
that whole thing more efficient.
And then alongside that, they are
they're a full activity collar.
They're, they're monitoring
rumination, grazing time, resting
heat detection, those types of things.
That's a really cool thing.
We, we've never used
activity collars before.
So it's the data that
we can get from that.
It is very helpful.
And then, you know, with, with,
with coming out of New Zealand,
you know, they're so, they're so
in tune with grass utilization.
They're so good at it over
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
their, land is so high price.
It's limited resource that they are
really good at, at, at residuals and,
and, and utilizing every resource.
Every kilogram for, for the, for their,
in their situation, every kg of dry
matter, they can, they can get over there.
So this thing is a whole grass management
tool to like, when you, when you would
set up, when you would draw a break for
the cattle, it would, it'll, it'll tell
you exactly how much area each cow has.
And now over there, they're actually
using satellite imagery to give
them pre grazing cover estimates.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: You, you
would, the app has a feature where you
would take pictures of the residual when
you leave the field and it calculates how
much residual you have and then how much
you utilize, how much you fed each cow.
So as far as it's, it's
taken our management.
You know, it's cranked it up from where
we used to be as far as understanding,
you know, grass utilization.
So that's kind of cool.
And I'm not even using all that stuff.
It's not geared quite right for here yet.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: trying
to load a lot of residual pictures and.
You know, through the algorithms and
stuff, get those, get those a little more
accurate than what they are right now.
But but it is definitely more, I guess
I say all that to say, it's definitely
more than just a virtual boundary tool,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: a, it's
a whole forage utilization tool which
it's I've found to be pretty powerful.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Well, I hadn't
even thought about that to be honest
Ted You know, I was thinking of it as
sure you do some activity monitoring
maybe catch a cow and heat or If a cow's
starting to feel bad, you noticed that
earlier, but mainly just as a boundary.
I hadn't even thought about, with that
defined boundary, you can do all kinds
of calculations on that because you know
exactly where they were, how long they
were, and if you're, you're using that
for all that, that, that gives you a lot
of potential data at your fingertips.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
It really does.
Yeah.
And it has and continues to
educate me and, and, and grow.
You know, my ability as a,
as a grazer or grass manager.
So that's exciting.
You know, that it can do
those types of things.
And the other, the other thing is,
you know, like, you know, we all know,
you know, especially if we're dairy
grazers, we tend to, you know, we know
those, those frequent moves for cattle.
You can increase your forage
utilization, intake, and
those types of things, but, but, then
there's the, you know, there's the
point where, you know, where does it
become impractical to move a poly wire,
you know, three, four times a day,
whatever, or more whereas if the
poly wire or the breaking requires
no labor now, you know, the sky's the
limit on that, you know, so we can, we
can set, you know, we can set those
cattle to shift, you know, To new grass,
you know, as many times as we'd want,
as we want to across the course of a
graze during the day or at night or
whatever, and then still shift them to
the parlor then when it's time to milk.
So it's, it's that that's been,
that that's been a big deal for us
to be, just to be able to, cause we
weren't big polywire users, just.
For whatever reason, this
wasn't really part of our model.
But, but now we're really embracing,
you know, the, the multiple, you
know, shifts through the course of
the graze, which is just exciting.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: and I
know you're, you're working with a
large number of cows, so it gives
you some flexibility there on size.
How small of an area can those fence,
those virtual fence callers get cows
down to without it being a problem?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
Yeah, that's, that's a good question.
It, it allows you like on our, you
know, on the app, on my phone, I
can, I can draw that real small.
And I think the.
the.
the buffering might be like, if,
if you, you know, wherever the
virtual line on the app is there may
be a meteor or two on either side
or, you know, that, that that, that
there's a little fluctuation of
where those, those cows actually stop
grazing, but it is pretty interesting,
you know, when you're, when you, when
you're grazing through some pretty
tall grass or some, you know, more
cover there, you draw that line.
It's a pretty well defined
line out through the
grass where they, where they stop at but
yeah, I mean, you could, you could take
that down to, you know, I'm trying to
think we put some small groups of cattle
on just a, just a real tiny little area.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: You know,
or if you, if you want to, if you want to
fence out a little like a, like a ditch
or a sinkhole or something, you don't
want the cattle to be near, you know,
a tree, you could draw around a tree
that they, you know, anything like that.
It's, it's, it's, it's pretty detailed.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
That's interesting.
How did you get your cows used to
the collars and get that going?
Was it a lot of transition to
get them there or did the cows
take to it pretty naturally?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Yeah.
It was, it was actually a
pretty, pretty easy process.
It was There were, there
were two farms in the U.
S.
that were launching when we launched
us and one other and they were
putting them on some stockers
up in Oregon at the same time.
So, fortunately, which is not normally
the case when a, when a herd would
start up, but we had we had a, a person
from Halter who was here on the ground.
So he actually helped us collar,
and then he was here to help walk
us through the, the training, which
was, you know, which was great to
see his perspective and kind of
have him take your hand on that.
But but yeah, really, as far
as the virtual boundary, they
start respecting, or they're
respecting that in 48 to 96 hours.
I mean,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: much.
I mean, what we would do is
we went out the first evening.
In fact, we collared cows, took us
a day and a half to collar the milk
and herd, and we were exhausted.
And Peter, he said, Oh, we're
going to be done in time.
We can train cows this evening.
Oh, the last thing I want to
do is train cows this evening.
So we, we go out and
And it's pretty simple.
We just, we took a paddock, we took a
poly wire, split the paddock in half, and
then we drew the virtual boundary about
10 meters in front of the poly wire.
So, so the cow had the opportunity
to, to visually approach the poly
wire and then experience the collar.
As, as she hit that virtual
boundary before she got to it.
So there was kind of a
connection made there.
And it was, you know, it was amazing.
The next morning we went out and you
could see, it was a little more jagged,
but you could see a line 10 meters ahead
of the polywire that like, well, these
girls are, you know, they're, they're
experiencing the collar before they're
grazing up to the fence you know, so we,
we did that for, for three or four days.
And then we, then we removed the poly
wire and, and you know, and watched
them and you can, you can, the other
thing that's pretty cool was, you
know, they, the cows show up on your
phone as little color coded dots,
depending on which, what mob they're in.
So you can see everything happening
in real time, you know, and you can
see if they're in the break or out
of the break and, and yeah, within a
couple of days that, that was down.
And then the, the the virtual shifting
takes them a little bit longer You
know, the virtual boundary is the cows.
Okay, I do something negative.
I, I break the rules, so to speak, and I
experienced negative things, you know, I
crossed the line and I, whereas virtual
shifting is, okay, I'm prompted to do
this positive thing, you know, an example,
walking toward the milking parlor.
And when I don't do that.
I'm experiencing negative prompts.
And then when I step into that and, and
do what I'm supposed to, they go away.
So it's, it's almost like, you know,
it's the, the training's kind of reversed
for the cow from the virtual boundary.
So that took a little longer that
took probably 10 days, maybe.
But it wasn't, wasn't bad.
You know, what we would do is we would
just we would initiate the shift on the
app to shift the cows to par and at the
same time, we would go out with a four
wheeler and do what we normally would do.
So the cows are experiencing this
prompt and seeing what they're used to.
You know, we open the gate and we do
the thing, you know, and, and they would
then, then they tie the two together
and then Then we would delay how long it
would take for us to get, you know, we
would we would start the shift And then
we'd maybe show up five minutes later
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh,
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: if they
weren't starting to, you know, starting
to come in and just kept backing that
off to what, till they didn't need
the prompting of what they saw in us
to know that the shift was happening
and and, and, and now they, you know,
it's almost now, well, they react more
now to that than they do the, the four
wheeler used to be, you know, you drive
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: you
know, And it's not shifting time.
And they think it is just because
of the four wheeler showed
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, right.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: you know,
now they don't act that way anymore.
Cause they have associated, you know,
the collar and the tones with the,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: which, which
is nice because I can remember going
out early to do something and I have
a couple of cows show up at the barn.
I'm like, you'll go back out.
It's not time
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
right, right.
You're like, you didn't read the script.
This isn't right.
You know,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was out there doing something else.
Couldn't you tell?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
that's exactly right.
Yep.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Now, are you only
using the collars on your milking herd?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: We we're
using them on the milking herd and we
also Collard are our breeding age heifer
group because they would be grazing the,
the, the main dairy grazing platform.
Our, our goal was to everything that
was going to spend time on the main
platform, I figured would need to be.
Collard so that, you know, so we
could remove fences like we wanted
to, and really, you know, allow
all the groups to do that now.
And, and we, we, we call
it our heifers as well.
The only group.
We've not collared yet is our bulls.
They've had, they've done limited
work with that over there because
there's a lot more AI and a lot less.
Bull
herds, like you'd say, I mean, we,
we, we run a, you know, we have a
hundred bulls from our most mature
down through to our smallest one.
So, I mean, they don't do that over there.
So it really wasn't applicable.
But that was one of my hangups when
we were talking, you know, initially I
said, I'm going to need to call these
bulls and they said, I don't, I don't
know if you can, and I said, well,
I mean, we, we might need to try, so
we're actually going to do some, some
trial work with that this fall, we're
going to, we're going to call it.
And I think maybe.
We might have to put collars
on a little bit more snugly you
know, a little tighter and, and it
may mean more frequent adjusting.
So we may have to modify our, our
handling facilities to do that.
If we, in fact, need to do that, you
know, I'm not sure at this point.
That's, that's all a big blank slate.
We're
not sure how that's going to go.
It'd be great to collar them if
and if they'll hold collars It'd
be just because of the group is
so much nicer to manage as a as a
collared group You know,
you can do things with them.
You can't do otherwise, but
there's some question marks there.
So we're going to kind of
work through that this here
a little another month or so.
We're going to start experimenting
You With that and see how it goes.
But yeah, all the, all the female
groups from, you know, from from say
two years and up or, or definitely call.
Yep.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
Do you, are you having to
adjust those collars very often?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: You know,
we, we don't you know, it was interesting.
We, you know, the youngest ones
we call her were our heifers
when we first got started
and I was, was asking them about that.
And they found that over there,
you know, if you're, if you're
calling them at like breeding age.
Yeah.
It's, it's, I, it's amazing, I guess,
how much the, the, the neck does not grow
substantially in proportion to the body,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
from what they said, and I said,
well, you know, well, makes sense.
So, but has, has been the case
we, we, when we call her the cows.
We, you know, they have, they have
settings on the, on the, on the
buckles, you know, so it's easy to
kind of tell where you're at when
you're, when you're fastening it.
They, they gave a recommended size
that they use over there and we
started putting them on with that.
That's going to be a little too loose
or a little too tight, I'm afraid.
So we're gonna, we kind of
erred to the bigger side.
Well, we had a few collars come off
probably not many, maybe a half dozen.
And it did seem like, I think, We went
back to kind of their recommendation on
those, you know, on their cows over there.
And that's pretty close
to, I think, where we are.
So when we collared our heifers, we
were, we aired a little more that way.
Kind of a, a little, not a, not a tight
fit, but a little more snugly fit.
And we haven't had any of them come
off and, and we haven't had to.
We haven't had to adjust them yet either.
So, you know, we're monitoring
that you know, but at this point,
we've not had to do any adjusting.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
Interesting.
Well, I find the, the virtual
fencing Virtual fence.
Very interesting.
I'd love for it to get to a price point.
I could afford it, but I, I
do find it very interesting.
I think it's being such a young industry,
it's going to mature or grow so rapidly.
It's going to be really interesting.
See where it goes and where
the price ends up and stuff.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
I think it's you know, the little bit
that we've handled it, I feel pretty
safe to say it's, it's definitely
one of the most powerful tools
we've had hit the grazing industry.
In my career for sure.
You know, and I, and I think all
the, those things that you, that
you just said there, I think, yeah,
it's, I think there's, that, that
maturing process is probably gonna
happen pretty rapidly, I think.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh yeah.
Let's, let's shift
gears just a little bit.
We've talked about what you're
doing, what's happened in the past.
Where do you see the
future going for you all?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
Yeah, that's a, yeah, that's,
that's a good question too.
We, you know, we, and this is
something that, that we, that we
think about and talk about is,
you know, especially in this.
In this area, we find ourselves in,
in the area of grazing, grazing dairy.
First of all, you know, grazing and
dairying seems to be pretty common.
Uncoupling a little more
than what they used to be.
I, I, I don't like that fact, but it seems
like it's true to a certain degree.
It's, it's hard to, to take a 600
cow grazing herd and make it a
3000 cow grazing herd, which is
what the, the industry is doing,
you know, the, the consolidation
and the herd size increases.
And it's, that's an
impossibility with this model.
You know, we're, you know,
We're limited at where we are.
You know, we're tied to the land base.
That's going to dictate,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: you
know, our herd size, and we're not
going to change our model just to
bring in more cows and work harder
and all those types of things.
So, you know, that's all great, but
you look at the economics of where
dairy's gone, you know, a lot of
dairy's economic model is expansion.
That's, you know,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah, it
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: So, so
how do we, you know, how do we maintain
a competitive cost of production with
an ever, ever increasingly consolidating
industry where, you know, those fixed
costs continue to be driven lower and
lower and we've, you know, purposely
handicapped ourselves from that.
How do we stay competitive?
Cause we want to, we
want to stay competitive.
We want to, we want to
continue to operate this level.
We like the family structure.
We, we do, we do we do three to four
outside employees as well, but we
still like that, that structure.
So I don't know, we're, we're,
you know, we've looked at, you
know, different types of markets.
We're just, we're just
on the commodity market.
We're competing with, you know, All
the milk out of Texas and all that
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: we're,
there's nothing special about our
product from a marketing standpoint.
Even though maybe there should be you
know, we've looked at, you know, they're
a two's getting bigger over here.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Yeah, it
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: is.
that you know, we, it
wouldn't be a big jump for us.
To, I think if we started started
testing all of our replacement bulls
we're keeping, I think in a few
years, it wouldn't take too long to
be a two that could be a potential.
We've looked at we've
looked at value adding here.
You know, we don't have immediate plans
to do that, but we sure have explored it.
There's
no, there's, there's less than
50 dairies left in the state.
There's, there's no dairies within
120 miles of our place and either any
direction.
So everybody, there's a lot of interest
and we know where the consumer is today.
Right.
I mean, they're really interested
in where their food comes from.
And, you know, so we say, well,
are we missing something here?
You know, I mean, what would it
take for us to, you know, market a
pasteurized milk product, ice cream,
you know, tour people on the farm.
You know, all those types of things.
We're.
We're open to that.
We want to, you know, I think before
any of those steps would be taken,
I think you know, it has to be done
in a, in a business, you know, very
business savvy, well researched.
methodical way, but you know, our, our
family is to a point where our kids are,
are out of the house you know, are kind of
in that college phase and getting out and
maybe wanting to, you know, to be part of
the business here, but that's obviously
that's not going to be milking more cows.
So.
You know,
are all those things a possibility?
They sure are.
If none of them come to fruition, can
we continue to, excuse me, ship, you
know, commodity milk at this scale,
long term and stay competitive?
Maybe.
I mean, I'm not saying we can't.
I, I, I hate to, I would hate to
write that off and say, ah, well,
you know, you just have to get
bigger or you, you gotta get, I
don't think that's necessarily true.
You know, so.
I said all that to not answer your
question probably very well at
all, But I will say it's something
that we think about all the time.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I just know when I look at
the commodity market on milk.
I'm just shocked by how little
it's changed from when we were
shipping milk 30 years ago.
So yeah, figuring that out.
Ted, it's time we moved to our famous four
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cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: There's same four
questions we ask of all of our guests.
And our first question, what
is your favorite grazing grass
related book or resource?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: That's a
that's a that's a pretty easy question.
I wish it was I wish I could say I
read books all the time I really wish
I read a lot more books than I do
and I know there's some great Books
on this topic that I know I could
benefit from, but I will have to
say because you've added publication
to that list and not just books.
Graze magazine was
probably been the most
most influential for me.
I subscribed to that before we, probably
before we bought our first cow and
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, yes.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Over the
years, you know, reading what producers
talk about, what's worked, what hasn't
really have a lot of respect for Joel
McNair and his philosophy and, and you
know, what, you know, what his vision
for, for grazing, even specifically
grazing dairy has been over the years.
And just can't, can't say
enough about that publication.
Of course, it's changed hands now, and
I think it's in very good hands now as
well.
But that's one that, that's when
I recommend anybody who's who's
looking to get into the business or,
or isn't currently subscribed to.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Yeah.
Graze is an excellent resource there.
Yes.
Our second question, what's
your favorite tool for the farm?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Well,
that's probably changed over the years.
You know, as we've, Been able to
grow some and, and get a little
more efficient on some of our, and
I hate to say machinery because we
try to run away from machinery, even
though we have machinery.
But as, as we've grown over the years,
we're several years ago, we got a
swather for cutting our hay, which
has really streamlined that process.
But that's, that maybe was my favorite
tool before we started collaring cows.
And I got to say the collars are just.
That's going to be a, that'd
be a tough one to live without.
So they'd be our favorite
tool at this point.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Oh, Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so very exciting times because
that's a recent introduction.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: Yeah,
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Yeah.
Thirdly, what would you tell
someone just getting started?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453: I'd
probably tell them a couple of things.
And, and when you, when you
think of someone in that context,
you're just getting started.
I know what that, I remember that
really well, because this is not, this
is not an environment I grew up in.
And I, I remember stepping out
into this and what that felt like.
And I would, I would take as I would
get time away from my day job, I'd,
I'd run off to pasture walks or, or
Grazing workshops and things like that.
And I remember one time I was at a grazing
workshop and the guy that stood up and
talked, I don't remember what the topic
was, but there was like a dry erase board
or something there and he stood up, didn't
say anything, he just wrote the words.
Confidence in grass and underlined it.
And I thought that's kind of odd.
And then he talked from there and he
said, you will not be successful as
a, as a grazer, if you can't learn to
have an appreciation and understanding
for the, the nutritional value of
quality grazed forage and what it
can do for the performance of an
animal in a relatively economic way
you have to develop that confidence.
It's not just.
You know, let the cows out before they
come back in for the rest of their feed.
You know, it's,
they're, you know, they're
out there for a purpose.
So you have to, you have to really develop
a faith, maybe along with, maybe that's a
better way of, you know, of putting it in.
So that would be something I would
just because it stuck in my mind,
I would, I would, would be some
advice for, for a young person.
And the other thing I would
say is mentorship is probably
the best thing you can do.
I have been, I've spent a lot
of time with guys that are.
Way older than enough to be my dad.
And I have learned a lot
from those guys, guys,
that have, have experienced.
ups and downs in the
business before I was born.
And those, those, those types of
folks have they have some real value.
And I think that anyone who would
be venturing off into this would
do well to, to to identify and
hook up with a good, good mentor.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: Yeah,
two excellent pieces of advice
there for someone getting started.
And lastly, Ted, where can
others find out more about you?
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
Well, I'm actually myself
not on social media at all.
Or dairy is you can, you can
look up Delta Dairy on Facebook.
We don't have a website at this point.
Like I said, we're not, you know, we
would, we're talking about doing that
type of thing possibly, you know, if we're
going to become more of a direct marketer
type thing, but you can find us there.
And I have an email, I guess I could give
you that to put in the, in the notes.
Any kind of personal contact information,
phone number, email, and be glad to
respond to anyone who'd like to reach out.
But I'm a little bit old
school in some of that stuff.
My wife's on social media, but I'm not.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444: I know
when I was I had a listener reach
out and say, hey contact Ted.
He'd be a great guest on the podcast.
So I went to try and find out
more information about you.
And I found there's not
a whole lot out there,
but I did find on the.
Louisiana Grazing Land Coalition.
They have a video about your dairy
that was made a few years ago,
which I thought was really good
and gave me more information.
So there's a place for
more information as well.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
I'm glad you brought that up.
I forgot about that.
Yeah, that would be a.
That would be a great place for sure.
You could check that out.
It's on
YouTube.
cal_1_10-17-2024_100444:
Well, Ted, we appreciate you
coming on and sharing today.
Really enjoyed the conversation.
Wonderful.
ted-miller_1_10-17-2024_100453:
for having me on.
I really enjoyed the conversation.
Always like to talk about this
kind of stuff and had a great time.
Thanks for the invite.
Cal: I really hope you
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I know I did.
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