Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Away We Go We Go follows the journey of Sophie & Jordan Epton, an American couple who moved to France with their 10-month old twins, and the crazy adventure that follows. We dive deep into what it's really like moving and living abroad as expats, interview others who have taken the road less traveled, provide travel tips, discuss how you can do hard things to change your own life, and everything in between.
riverside_hugh_raw_audio_sophie_epton_s_stud_0289_clean
===
[00:00:00]
Speaker: [00:01:00] So I'm sitting here with the incredible Susanna and Hugh from Shei, and I felt like from the first time that I talked on the phone with you that we immediately clicked, I love your energy, [00:02:00] I love your story so much. It's an incredible story of how you moved from Australia all the way to France and started this new life.
And I just don't even wanna waste one more second. Let's get into it. I wanna learn all about it. Welcome to the podcast you two
Speaker 2: so lovely. And we feel the same. Yeah. It's so nice to meet you and yeah, I think we all do have a bit in common when we make a big move like this, so it's fun to share our war stories.
Speaker: Uh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So tell me first, let's go back in time a little bit and talk to me about your first travels to Provence and when did it really stop being a vacation place for you and starting to feel like home. What was that shift for you guys?
Speaker 3: Well, we first came here about 15 years ago, and this was for a friend's wedding, which was in mid-June.
And you can imagine, in Provence at that time of the year, oh yes, everything is rose colored. And for us, we just fell in love with the whole area immediately. And, uh, it was a, [00:03:00] it was a, and uh, yes. Um, so with that, we very quickly organized another holiday back here, but, you know, between Australia and Provence, you pretty much couldn't get two spots further away on the planet.
So it's true, just a weekend getaway is not really something you can do, you know, ongoing. So yeah. So very quickly became just an idea for us to actually move here. We were in our mid thirties and
Speaker 2: early thirties. Come on.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So with that, we. We thought, well, we could try to just come here for holidays or we could actually just pick up and move here and see what happens. And that's what we did.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In a real session. Amazing. You know, house hunting and you do all of that online, armchair kind of house hunting, and then Yeah, when it started to really feel like home, I guess, you know, it's, it's such a whirlwind.
You move your whole life. There's just a mess everywhere. We were up to our eyeballs renovating, we had no kitchen floor for a while. You just feel like [00:04:00] time just is passing really, really quickly. But I think when you start to feel that there's memories being etched deeper and deeper as time goes by.
You have the four seasons and you start to see these things that happen every year and that familiar Yes. Familiarity that comes back year after year really makes you feel at home.
You know, you see these little signs, whether it's, the first almond blossom, which is happening now or the wild grape high sense that are blue when they pop up, you know their bulb. Yes. So they up under foot, they smell so good. And I remember our first year picking little bouquets of them and having in the bathroom and I just can't, you know, I see a flower and I stick my nose in it.
I can't help myself. So, you know that's a huge thing for me actually in the wildflowers. And then there's also the village events. Every year we have F Deza and we have Fat de La music, and it's just these. These regular things that as the seasons go on and you look forward to these things, it's just becomes more indelible, you know?
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 3: And I think as well, the first year everything is a new experience but when it becomes really nice [00:05:00] is when it becomes a tradition and, you know mm-hmm. Um, coming up. We know that in the next couple of weeks, asparagus is going to start hitting the markets. Yes.
We're looking forward to our first meal with asparagus and
Speaker 2: strawberries from Carpenter. Yes,
Speaker: that's right. That's right. I love it. So I wanna talk to you a little bit more about the home buying process, because when we first talked on the phone, you told me this kind of wild story about how you bought your house in four days.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: In Provan. So tell me a little bit more about that and what drove that decision.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we had an idea to look for a house and by the time we had planned our European holiday, we realized we only had actually given ourselves four days in Provence to actually look for and find a house.
And we've done all the research online and everything, but it's just not the same as when you get here
Speaker 5: mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: And I think the first couple of days, we saw houses that nothing really clicked, [00:06:00] and we weren't that sure that anything was actually going to happen.
But then a real estate agent had asked us, you know, if you really want to be part of a community, you need to move to a small village. And here is a house in a small village. And we came and we saw it. We thought. Uh, this is for us. And with that, we were really fortunate because another buyer had tried to buy the house, but unfortunately their finances hadn't come through, so Oh wow.
The paperwork was already, so that was a bit of a stroke of luck for us. Yeah. And truly
Speaker 2: the house, we were at the T's office and we signed it
Speaker: just Wow.
Speaker 3: Now
Speaker: you do not hear that very often.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I remember thinking the whole thing happened so quickly, and then we came out and I think we had an appar in the square, and we just had a moment of, what have we actually done here?
Speaker 2: I think we bought it. Or are we least
Speaker 3: I think we signed a 70 page contract in French, and by that stage, French was not existent, so we [00:07:00] thought, what have we actually done here? But no, I think, the way the buying process works, you know, the no tiers, as long as you have a good no tear, they do really look out for your interests.
They do protect you and things like that.
Speaker 2: And you can either share with the seller or you can have your own to represent you. But we shared with the seller, you know, it was, it was a simple transaction. You would know this of course, but just in case your listeners don't understand the process, you have two contracts.
So you have the Co-pro, which you sign first, and then you have the Act, sale Act, Devon, which is several months after. And that's sort of your settlement, which was what we would call when you get the keys. So, right. We had that, we really needed that time between those two contracts because we were moving our whole lives, quitting our jobs, telling our families like,
Speaker: yes, yes,
Speaker 2: it was a loss.
So that, that time, between really helps and there's a sort of cooling off period as well. So if you think, oh my goodness. We've made a mistake. You can re make. Yeah, it's quite a, it's, we didn't find it stressful at all, but we were probably a bit numbed by Rose and just rose colored glasses and being completely seduced by Provence.
So, [00:08:00]
Speaker: no, I love that story because it is, it's wild. I think a lot of people have a lot more ups and downs when they're buying, but it's really, I love the story how it just, you found it and it was meant to be, and I think it all just worked out. I do feel like real estate is fate. I've always said that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: So when you first arrived though, in 2015, talk me through this too, because you didn't really have a fixed plan. So what did you think life was going to look like for you at that time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we didn't really have a preconceived idea of day to day, but we just had a long list of stuff we wanted to do on the house for sure.
Mm-hmm. Which is so sadly quite long. Just knowing okay, we don't have to go to the supermarket anymore, like in Australia, we can go to the Marshe and Right. It's these little lifestyle things that are so simple but make such a huge difference on the way you pass your time.
One of us will say, I'm going down to the Ry to get a baguette. And you think, okay, well you might be back in five minutes, you might be back in an hour. It just depends who you bump into, run into straight on the way. So [00:09:00] that's just really nice. You, it's very organic.
Speaker 3: But in order for us to move to France as well, we did have to quit our perfectly good jobs back in Australia.
Mm-hmm. And we didn't have to leave our home in Australia. And I think a lot of friends and family were saying, well, if you're doing that, what is your plan? And we honestly said, we don't have a plan. We're just going to see what happens. And that was a pretty hard concept for a lot of people to grasp.
I
Speaker: know.
Speaker 3: And we did have one wise friend of ours who she was actually the mother of the wedding that we originally came to Provence to see. And she just said, you are young. What's the worst that can happen? You know, if you end up needing to have to sell the house and move back to Australia and beg for your own jobs back, will we just do that?
And I think that was really, really, that
Speaker: was very liberated. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And, so we just thought, we're going to come here, we're gonna take a year sabbatical, and we're just going to experience lifestyle in Provence, and then we'll get on with our lives one way or another. So,
Speaker: yeah.
Yeah,
Speaker 3: yeah.
Speaker: So then, what was this [00:10:00] moment where you're like. Okay. Actually this isn't really going to be temporary. This is going to be like fully our lives. What changed for you?
Speaker 2: I think there was one kind of pivotal moment, a couple of years in, it was New Year's Day and we were with friends watching a movie at the cinema.
It was a packed theater and the film was called Lag Deve. So that's the Taste of Wonder with VII ra, who I love, and the film, the opening scene is set in our village and it just showcases Provence, like you're flipping through the most beautiful photography book on Provence. It's just the truth. Yes. And the story is so charming and enchanting and all of that.
And the film ended, the lights come on, and I was hysterical. Travelling sobbing, snotty mess. And I was like, don't make her sleep. I don't wanna go. At that point it wasn't really hard, you know, we weren't succeeding, we were, it, our business wasn't profitable. Like what are we doing? You know, life was kind of [00:11:00] easy in Australia, but that just made us, yeah, it was just this moment of, yeah, so it's Virginia.
Virginia, he's fault that we're still here. And she gave us that push to, to just persevere. Yeah,
Speaker: that I love it. So also too, I think it's really funny because when I talk to people, especially when I go back to the states and like, oh, your life in France and like, I think they just envisioned me strolling around a market 24 7 stopping at a cafe and drinking wine, which is what you do on vacation.
But obviously it's different when you are having real life. 'cause also you guys, we all moved here still having to work and make a living. We're not retired. And so I think there's a lot of surprises that can maybe come along the way when you first are here more as residents and not visitors.
What did you guys really find when you first moved here?
Speaker 3: We've definitely had two very different experiences because of the first year we're here was really settling in, renovating our house, really living lives kind of like tourists typically would, or people with [00:12:00] holiday houses who are not necessarily working in the area.
And
Speaker: yeah.
Speaker 3: And that was a nice way of getting to know people in our village and getting to learn about all the great local spots in the surrounding area. But it wasn't until we started a business. That's suddenly when friends realized, oh, you guys are serious about living here.
Oh yeah, let's start sharing our network. Let's start helping you out. We're gonna introduce you to some potential people who you might be able to work with. Because of our business, suddenly we had an entirely different experience in France.
Speaker 2: Every winter there's a big design show which goes with Maize on an object in Paris and it's called Deco Off. And it's really about, wall coverings fabric and all of that. And it's a beautiful event in Paris on both sides of the river.
And it brings a lot of designers from all over the world and a lot of American designers. And when we were there, we met a couple who were tasked with renovating the hotel, Chateau De Grand Luce, in the Lu. Oh wow. Oh wow.
Speaker: I
Speaker 2: know
Speaker: exactly where that [00:13:00] is. That's
Speaker 2: amazing. That's amazing. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this was, a good five plus years ago, I guess.
Anyway, we hit it off with these designers, and we are still friends. And they wanted us to supply the antiques. So we went antiquing together and we sourced for them. It was just a mix of everything over several years. And amazing. That was that such a privilege because we weren't buying a ticket to go visit a chateau like you would if you were a tourist.
We were literally invited to stay in the chateau. She wanted us to see how it felt. So she's like, you can imagine what chandelier I'm looking for in this bedroom, or what kind of entry table we need. I want marble and gilded and what styles they were really trying to search for.
So that was such an amazing project to be part of. And you look back and you think, oh my gosh, if I had thought that this little business could have put us in a position to be working on a project like that, as well as meeting these superbly kind people, you would just do it all again despite how hard it is.
So,
Speaker: yes, it's true. It's like the more that you integrate yourself, the more [00:14:00] that world just opens up. I love that story. What do you think overall are, you know, 'cause ob obviously there's good and there's maybe the not so good parts or the realities of running a business in France.
What would you say are your favorite things and maybe your not so favorite things about running a business in France?
Speaker 3: Sure. I think definitely we've opted for a very bespoke niche career here. Selling Fran French antiques internationally , is not the same as working in a big corporate company back in Australia.
But I think for that, our everyday life could be visiting suppliers who marble repair and restoration specialist or gild specialist or bronze work specialists. And so you're going to these artisans homes where they do the most intricate work and. That's our day job is going and understanding what they do and finding out how and why they are the bested in their craft.
And that to me is so much more interesting than some of the old suppliers I would have to deal with in my older career. Yeah. Which were [00:15:00] much more tradition, which were much more sort of, I guess, mainstreaming commercial. Yeah. So definitely things like that. But
Speaker 2: the actual nuts and bolts of starting a business, you know, it's really hard to rock up to an accountant and say, we've got this business idea.
There are multiple statutes of businesses depending on what size you are. And of course they look at you and say, every moron from Australia or America comes to France and thinks they can set flog antiques overseas and they'll get it right. We've seen this a million times, you guys are gonna fail.
So they say you just start as an auto entrepreneur and they put you on this teeny tiny statute and then as you evolve you have to keep changing because you don't know it's gonna work from the start. So we have done a lot of paperwork acrobatics, having to change our business as we've grown.
Wow. But no one was gonna ever take that punt on you to say, let's go for an SARL, from day one. No, nobody would in their right mind. 'cause they just have no, you've got no track record.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right. So that's probably a tricky thing. And then a lot of people, especially French people, really discourage you from hiring.
So we were trying to just do [00:16:00] everything ourselves, which, that really sucks because, you're trying to run a business of passion. Yes. I don't wanna be talking to US customs at three in the morning for a package. I wanna be finding the stuff in the package.
These kind of things. Of course you then learn how to run every aspect of your business, but we just had to hire, we were killing ourselves doing everything, the two of us. So. I think getting over that and all of the SAF and social security and there is a huge expense that comes with hiring people, but it's worth every penny.
So, yeah.
Speaker 3: So I think on that as well, definitely the French laws and rules and regulations about running a business are fundamentally different from what they are in Australia. And I imagine also different from what they're in the in the us. Very much so. A big learning curve. Trying to understand how and why they're all different, but I think, definitely the best advice would be to find the best possible French accountant you can.
Mm-hmm. We're on our third accountant now who is incredible. And the
Speaker 4: Sylvan.
Speaker 3: Shout out for [00:17:00] Sylvan
The first two accountants, I don't think they, they didn't really treat us that seriously and they difference between a good accountant and a bad accountant can have such a huge impact on the time and energy you spend administering your business. Plus also \ the taxes you pay or the benefits you receive.
That is a huge difference that can make or break a business. So, find a great accountant and if you're not happy with your current accountant, swap to someone else
Speaker 2: And interview them like they're working for you. Really, because when you decide to change, I dunno if you've been through this, but you have to basically divorce your accountant, so the current accountant has to release you, not
Speaker: Yeah, that sounds scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The current guy, or current guy or has to release you, you and the new one has to accept you and they hand over your files and there needs to be a, like a complete agreement in unison. So it's really stressful and Wow. It's much better to get across that the first time. That
Speaker: sounds, that sounds so French.
That sounds so French, like, oh my gosh. No, really good advice though, because the thing is everyone asks [00:18:00] me, like, how do you move there? And there's really only a couple ways to do it. And to me. Being an entrepreneur, if you have that in you is one of the, like I say, easier quote unquote, but to actually get there because French people do want you to get integrated into their system more and it's an easier way even though it's a lot of work, but it just depends on if people are willing to put in that work to obviously create that life.
But to me it's a great way to go. So, I love too talking about the beginnings of your business because you started out of your garage. So tell me more about what those early days looks like with Shou in your garage.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. When we first came up with the idea, we spoke to a friend who's a dentist, and of course as being a dentist, she knows everyone because, everyone is her patient.
Right. And she said, I speak to this guy. He's a local antique dealer. So we've sort of got our first introductions to other antique dealers in the area. And,
Speaker 2: beyond the people we knew from already finishing our house, we were starting to get [00:19:00] serious about this. We're like, okay
Speaker 3: We really gave ourselves about a month to get everything up and running and, um, wow. Yeah.
Speaker: That's
Speaker 3: crazy. Probably. That
Speaker: is crazy.
Speaker 3: But I also think because we hadn't really thought about how we're going to, earn an income. So an obvious option would've been to move some, move away somewhere else and get a regular job.
But we thought, no, we're gonna stay here. We're gonna try and launch this business. We've only got a very limited time to get this up and running, so let's just go for it. And in hindsight, we've probably launched a little bit too early, but it's probably better too early than too late because you just have to start somewhere
Speaker 2: If you don't look back and cringe, you haven't learned anything.
So there's a lot of cringe. And
Speaker 3: I remember we, I think we had 50 antique items that we put onto our online store and we launched our online store and we told all our family and friends about it and we didn't really have a network of clients or, anything like that. And I remember seeing the statistics and the first day we had a hundred visitors on our website and we thought, it's only [00:20:00] up from here.
Speaker: Yeah. And
Speaker 3: the next day we had two visitors and uh,
Speaker: Aw.
Speaker 3: Sort of where from now. And, but for us making the business work was absolutely vital for us to be able to remain living here. And that's what we wanted. Yeah. So we just went on with it and
Speaker 2: yeah, that's the mechanism to be able to live here.
Speaker 3: And so we just pushed on, we -kept finding better antiques, finding better ways of doing things like our photography, trying to learn about, all about packaging from scratch and things like that.
And of course you make all your mistakes in the early days, um mm-hmm. So,
Speaker 2: but they're expensive to make and you learn fast.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: And you don't make them again. Yes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if you
Speaker: fail fast and move forward,
Speaker 2: you know? Exactly.
Speaker 3: But I think with persistence, we started operating from our house, so we converted our garage into our mini logistics hub and
Speaker 2: delete it
Speaker 3: and things like that.
But, it would be so cold in winter that the masking tape wouldn't [00:21:00] work or the packaging tape wouldn't speak.
Speaker 2: The glue would just freeze and you couldn't fill a carton. Like, okay, we're gonna have to bring all this inside by the fire.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh my, my gosh. So,
Speaker 2: yes, it was
Speaker 3: actually one funny thing was, we were really trying to prove to our customers that we really were here in Provence.
And so we thought, well, why not photograph the inventory that we have in Provence? So we were taking Louis mirrors out into vineyards. And Oh, that's cool. We were photographing the mirrors in the vineyards and the
Speaker 2: farmers, other ERs are like, you go, Australians are, so
Speaker 3: other people pack by going, what you, what is this mirror doing out in the middle of a paddock?
And uh, like
Speaker 2: says Jolene, you have to, reflection of the mirror is so important,
Speaker 3: but I think we had a, we had an armi in front of a fountain in the square, and uh, and everyone in the square is just like, what are these people doing? So, uh,
Speaker 2: and yeah, you cannot photograph every item for three hours a piece, otherwise [00:22:00] you'll never go.
So, yeah.
Speaker 3: But we just had to try everything and we worked out what things were
Speaker: so. Just hearing this and hearing about how inspiring your story is and what you've created. I can't wait for people who don't know about you to discover you, but what advice would you give to someone dreaming of starting a business in France?
Speaker 2: Yeah. . It's really about what do you want your life to be like? And then what business is gonna compliment that? Mm-hmm. And so you don't sabotage, you don't wanna kill the dream. And you probably need to accept that. Well, for our, in our situation, you know, you're not gonna be earning a city salary.
So that's a huge thing it's a big, tough pill to swallow. There are things like that, it's entirely different.
Speaker 3: And I think as well, you do have to accept that the way of doing business here in France is fundamentally different and mm-hmm.
If we came here and said well, that's the way we did things in Australia, so we're gonna do things like this here, you're going to be pushing things uphill. And particularly around the [00:23:00] administration side of things. I remember we started our business and on day one we received a tax bill.
And of course, their natural reaction was to say, why you, we are a poor, new little business. Why be getting
Speaker 2: we, we this hold one thing,
Speaker 3: we haven't sold one bill. Why are we getting a tax bill? And now my initial instinct was to say, I just wanna opt out. I don't want to participate in the French system.
I just wanna get on with my business and stand alone and be independent. And we will either succeed or fail on our own back. But that is the wrong approach in France. You need to accept that you are part of the system. You do need to contribute to the system, but you also get a whole bunch of benefits.
And it's about learning how to unlock all of those benefits in France. And that's different for every industry and every different type of business activity. But I would definitely say that if you're setting up a business in France, be in France, be part of the system, and
embrace
Speaker 3: it. Find out what, uh, help you can do.
Absolutely. And one of the things that we have [00:24:00] by us being part of the system, you know, we're in part of a small village which has a marere and then 12 neighboring villages, all sort of team up together to create a cooperative. So there are 12 mares there. And by actually working with them.
We've been able to have so much help and assistance and from those mayors that you would never get that from a local mayor back in Australia under the Australian business system. So it's something you wouldn't even think to us.
Speaker 2: He wouldn't go to your mayor for business advice in Australia in a million years,
Speaker 3: right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But here it's not really about business advice, but we really needed land to build a warehouse and this cooperative of 12 mayors have land and they sell it to the best candidate who is likely to help the local economy. So they're looking at how many people can you hire?
They also like to know that you can hire people who don't necessarily have university degrees because that's, you know, Provence is rural. Yeah. And, um, yeah, they, they're really looking at how do you grow that [00:25:00] local economy. And our business is kind of the perfect business for that. But the whole process took a couple of years to convince, 12 Mez, that we were the right candidate.
Wow. To buy land. And then you, win the right buy land. The right to buy the land. And then, here we are, and we built, and actually the building process was only six to seven months. You know,
Speaker 3: we're
Speaker 2: probably chaining soils to opening the door.
Speaker 3: So the key to unlocking that is if we had taken our Australian business approach, we would've gone out, tried to buy land privately and do something on our own.
But here now you partner with the local government. They're able to release public land to sell to you. So we're now the owners of that, and they're able to do that in such a way that, we get all sorts of financial incentives around creating a business in the area. And that's something that takes time and energy learn about.
But you've gotta go with that system, not try to resist it.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And now we're a team of 10 and all that staff are French, and three of those people live in our actual village. So they've got kids in [00:26:00] their school. My gosh. So you really feel like you're genuinely contributing and there's a lot of pressure as to make sure things work.
Oh my gosh. Because, you know, it's a, you're providing a livelihood and Yeah. It's really enriching. And that's not something I would've ever even anticipated. So that's just a nice bonus.
Speaker: I love that. I love how you explained all of that, because it is true. Here, the taxes are high, but the whole point is that you're actually like, reaping a lot of incredible benefits from what you're paying into.
And also it just really says a lot about you too and your tenacity and you were definitely the right kind of people to move here and start things. And the patience you have to have and the things you have to wait for and the things that you just have to keep pushing and be diligent about.
And it's just so cool to hear your
Speaker 2: whole, oh, that's really whole journey. Yeah. You do need to be very patient that, that's hard. But yes, patient in terms of months, years patient, so
Speaker: Yes. Yes,
Speaker 3: definitely.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker 3: and I think as well, I had actually tried to start a few businesses in Australia.
And, went through the process and the motions, and then got [00:27:00] to the point in Australia that it was kind of thinking, this business doesn't really make sense. So by that stage, I would then go and just get a regular job and you end the business at that point.
Whereas here, it was a totally different approach because our desire to live here was the fundamental reason for keeping going on with the business even. Yeah. Uh, in the early years when it didn't make any sense, we just kept going with it anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You just have to make it work.
There's failing is not an option. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right. And, it does take, it definitely takes, you know, well if people are lucky enough to start a business where it's commercially viable from day one and is always commercially viable, that's, you know, hats off to them. That's a wonderful achievement.
For us, it
Speaker 2: didn't, you think we're lucky that we didn't go viral from day one? Because it would've broken us. We weren't ready. You know, we hadn't set up our systems. We didn't, we had to learn at a pace that matched our growth. So, thinking you wanna be viral from day one is not actually a blessing, I don't think.
Um,
Speaker: I agree. I agree. I think people think that success comes overnight, but it's better if you're working behind the scenes and learning and [00:28:00] growing appropriately and 'cause then you're ready to meet the moment if that happens.
Speaker 2: And that, for us, we exploded in COVID and we were set up awesome.
And because we had no social life, because, you couldn't do anything we would've. Right, right. But it was awesome. And of course it wasn't awesome for many of our friends who were in hotels and restaurants. That was really an awful time for them. But we were so lucky because we were at the point that we were ready to scale and, um mm-hmm.
It just came at the right time. We'd hired. And, our first hire Antoine, he's still with us now. He'd been in the restaurant business, so he also got to change his life from having no time for, having home for dinner with his kids. 'cause he was working in a restaurant at night, right.
It's every bathtime, bedtime story, all of those sorts of things. And now he's got a regular Monday to Friday job, that's much more comfortable and he's got much more time for his family.
Speaker: Guys are creating, not only are you living here and living your dream, but you're creating impact.
And that's
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. It's
Speaker: really
Speaker 2: cool.
Speaker: I love that. So I wanted to also talk about again, if you're [00:29:00] not retiring and you're moving here and you have to make money, I think there's also the idea of, how do you balance growth and having a business with just the lifestyle that you moved here for, how do you find those pockets of time and what do you do?
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely for us, that was a big question that we asked for a long time because I think particularly in the early days of our business, it really did take all of our time and energy to get up and running. Right. And then suddenly you definitely do have those moments where you think, if all we're doing is working, what are we actually doing?
Because the whole idea of moving to Provence was to change our lifestyle. But I think in recent years we've become much better and more disciplined at balancing that lifestyle now. And I think we've been able to get the business to a certain size and scale. It can operate and it can run at the same time as us, keeping our own time reserved for doing the things that we wanna do.
So I think that definitely the tips for that is, for us, we plan our holidays out in front because, the next [00:30:00] month is always going to be chaotic. So, you just have to keep booking your holidays in, and then you'll find ways of making it work. And I think as well, just in terms of making time for friends in the area and, dinners here can be late nights during weeks.
So if you don't have the time for that, then even just catching up for walks or doing it, having little moments with your friends in the area, when you can. That's all important. And I think, also, a lot of the aches are in the weekdays and the mornings, but just getting out of work and going to your ache just is like a holiday in itself.
Just having hours. It really is four hours, to quietly go to the ache. And that's also a great chance to catch up with everyone as well.
Speaker 2: So we do sound like geriatrics, but we do like a Sunday picnic because Hugh bought a chevet, you know, the old, like a 1970s car.
Speaker: Oh, fun. I know. I don't know that much about cars, but yeah.
I love seeing them, but I don't
Speaker 2: know that much about them. It's shape's car. We'll send you a photo. Cool. But even just getting in that little car, which is so old fashioned and it's so cute and, taking the [00:31:00] picnic basket and going for a hike and, taking the dog and all of that really
Speaker: feels like
Speaker 2: a holiday.
Speaker: No, that's life. That's enjoying all the simple moments. And especially you feel that when you live in France. And I don't know, I, what's funny is I feel like too, there's. So many people that it's like their idea of a good time these days is way less quiet moments.
I don't know, I think the world is feeling loud. So I think that's some of the beauty of being in Provence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. On that thread, you probably noticed this in your village as well, but say you have, the F of Huan for instance, so that's, the neighbors party, that's every year.
And that was one of our first, village events. So we had no idea what to expect, but it's so surprising that, basically the mayor just dumps some trestle tables in a few spots around the village and whoever wants to go to whichever gathering, just rocks up with their plate of food and nobody organizes anything.
So nobody says you bring a pot like in America, right? But nobody's saying you bring the salad, you bring the dessert, you bring the cheese platter. It just works. And you miraculously have [00:32:00] enough aperitif, enough mains, enough salads, and enough desserts. There's no allergens written on labels. There's no bouncers.
Nobody gets too drunk. You know, if this was Australia, it would be mayhem. So,
Speaker: yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's just so symbolized and then everybody packs up and goes home and it's like this lovely, you know, thing that, it's so simple. I think like we have come from a culture that is so overly fussy, but ironically, perhaps trying to be French, mm-hmm.
That's not what French is, you know? So. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So I'm gonna switch gears just a little bit because you guys have created an amazing shipping app, which I feel like so many people are going to want to know more about, because one of the biggest hurdles for buyers is that they wanna buy all these amazing antiques, but how do you get them back to where you live?
So what made you decide to create it? Obviously besides that, there was a huge problem and, what is your solution? How does this all [00:33:00] work?
Speaker 3: So when we first launched our online boutique selling antiques internationally, of course Susanna is super passionate about, curating the right type of antiques.
But then we very quickly realized that shipping was a massive problem and mm-hmm. In terms of trying to consistently and safely deliver fragile antiques to destinations anywhere in the world is a really difficult challenge. So we realized in order for our business to work, we really had to do that ourselves, and we couldn't find any shipping partners that we felt had the same sort of service, that our clients expected.
And so we thought the only way this is gonna work is if we do it ourselves. So we now have our own packers, our own machinery, we've got a 400 square meter warehouse fully set up just dedicated to packaging and managing logistics. Incredible. We have our own customs team. We have our own international network of logistics partners.
So we've done that all in-house. And then we had a lot of our other antique [00:34:00] dealers and other art galleries in the area and international clients coming and visiting all asking us about shipping and wanting us to do their shipping for them. And so it just started, we didn't have a plan to do a shipping business.
The demand was there and people came asking us. And so we just thought, we need to open this up. So the first obvious step for that was to create an app where people could get, people could receive instant shipping quotes. Because there's nothing more frustrating than going to a gallery and going through a flea market.
And you find the ideal mirror or enfilade or commode, and you get the price from the dealer. And then you ask the dealer, well, how do I get this back to the states? And the dealer says, oh look, on Monday you can call such and such, and that'll take a few days. And then suddenly there's language issues and it all becomes way too hard.
So with our app, clients can shop through, galleries and flea markets across France, find the objects they love, put the dimensions and the price into , the app, and they'll receive an instant shipping quote. So they know straight up what is their [00:35:00] landed cost for that item to to be delivered to their home.
Um, I mean, not just
Speaker: in
itself
Speaker: is amazing.
Speaker 2: And so now we have, we've developed, the app is relatively new, but this service has been running for a few years, and now we have people who shop annually, so that's really great. We've got also merchants, in the states who regularly do containers, so that's also, yes.
That's great because we can help them with that as well. But we find a lot of people will arrive in France, in Paris, they wanna do the flea markets there and then come down and perhaps do, , a few in Burgundy not to be underestimated. There's some great dealers there. Yeah. And then of course also Sorg and, even down on the coaches.
And so we can then consolidate everything in our warehouse here. People can also drop off themselves. Some just wanna meet us and, they wanna see where it's going. Others are just like, you know, I'm out of here, I'm still on holidays, I'm going to Italy next for a month.
Just make sure it arrives after I've got home. So we can coordinate all of that, and consolidate it here and ship it all off together.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's been a very nice organic. Thing. And it's great because, a sale for the dealer is also a [00:36:00] sale for us. So it's a really positive thing all around.
It's great.
Speaker: Yeah. We'll definitely link everything. I want people to know about this. I feel like the number one question, I feel like anytime I'm ever showing something about antique shopping here, you're like, how do I get that back? And I've never had a great answer and now I do.
Speaker 2: But I know that as well. Everybody gives tips of where to find antiques and nobody's giving any shipping advice. It must drive people crazy.
Speaker: About. It's absolutely brilliant.
And I wanted to ask too what do you think that people misunderstand the most about what it takes to ship antiques internationally?
Speaker 3: For sure. Probably the best way to describe clients who come to us looking for shipping. You have one group who just flat out ask the question, what is the cheapest way to ship antiques?
Right. And that is a bit of an oxymoron because if it was a new piece of furniture, I totally get it. You're looking to not spend a dime more than you need to for shipping new furniture. When it comes to antiques, those people, they will probably go and find three random quotes, pick the [00:37:00] lowest price, and the items will have all sorts of hassles being delivered, and they'll probably arrive damaged, and then they'll probably be stuck in some weird insurance claim process for 12 months.
And the whole thing's just a horrible process and so I think the. Clients who ask those questions are asking the wrong questions. I think they should be more saying, I love this item. I want this in my home. How can I safely and reliably get this back into my home? And that is the right questions to be asking.
And they're the types of clients that we like to work with because they understand that, we've got the highest delivery rate in the industry, but on the very chance that something does get damaged in transit, it's not a question about the insurance, it's the loss of that item.
It's a
Speaker 2: complete tragedy. Yes, it has a prepare for two or 300 years to be broken in five minutes. These things are precious.
Speaker 3: And so we know that's what's important to these types of clients. And so for us, packaging is everything and mm-hmm. So if, what clients I think need [00:38:00] to understand is, what am I purchasing?
Is it something that's new and can be replaced out of a factory? Then you have one way of shipping. But if this is an original, if this is an antique or fine art. It is really is a different way of shipping. And so people need to be aware of those two different services that are available.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Every, every crate is bespoke, it's designed by hand. We have shipped marbles, sculptures with dainty little fingers, and they arrive the same state that they left here, chandeliers with 24 arms and crystal pendants, you know? Yeah. The things that you just, you have a panic attack thinking about it.
But, we've nutted out how to do that and safely, so we probably do over engineer packaging, but it is absolutely worth saving headaches later. And it makes for water clients. Yes.
Speaker: Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh. Our clients, use Trustpilot for our reviews, and when you read our reviews, people just, they're as excited about the packaging as they are about the object.
It's quite funny.
Speaker: You kind of expect maybe something to happen. The fact that you guys just take such great care into it is [00:39:00] amazing.
Speaker 3: We use the same methodology of whatever it is we're shipping.
We have the same process to make sure it's fully safeguarded. So about two years ago, for example, we shipped Julia Child's Lanu stove from P'S, what, two years And you know, her other stove is in the Smithsonian Museum. So
Speaker 2: no pressure,
Speaker 3: the responsibility. Yeah, no pressure at all, we felt with that. But obviously we have a process which we do the same type of packaging and handling and shipping service for everything, regardless of whether it's a single comfy pot or whether it's.
Julia Child's stove. In terms of being able to ship something like that is certainly something we would've not taken on in the early days of our business, but after 10 years, we've done this enough times now that we know what we're doing and we know we can, deliver things safely.
But
Speaker 2: just a bit of background on the stove, if you are curious. So, oh, yes. Let's hear
Speaker: this.
Speaker 2: Julia was friends with a food critic and author called Patricia Wells. I'm not sure if you have heard of her.
Speaker: Yes, I have.
Speaker 2: Yes. Um, so [00:40:00] we met Patricia and Walter through mutual friends, and we've done a few projects together that have been, very rewarding.
She was selling a lot of her antiques. So we did a collaboration together, ended up in the New York Times, because of course she'd worked at the New York Times.
Speaker: Good
Speaker 2: job. I love it. And, yeah, sold out in like 45 minutes. It was absolutely insane. But anyway, wow. They're great friends and we're very close.
And she was friends with Julia. And Julia gave, Julia had a holiday house near grass, and so each summer she would come. To Patricia and Walters on the way to going to her own holiday house. And when she was selling up her place in grass, Patricia said, can I have your stove? And she ended up agreeing to give it to Patricia.
And, we didn't sell the stove. Patricia said it was a gift to me, so I'm gonna give it to my friend. So her friend, can we say who the biggest
Speaker 3: go for it?
Speaker 2: He's an absolute character to look up. He wrote a song called Patricia about Patricia or Patricia. He's a crooner and his name is Todd Murray.
And he has had the same sourdough starter [00:41:00] for something like 40 years. So the oven is at his place in Maine. And, uh, he, wow. The first thing he made, because it works, it arrived safely, of course plugged it in gas, going, it works. And the first thing he made was a loaf of sourdough and some kind of lobster.
B love it or something. So yeah, that's the random story behind Julia Child Stove. But there was of nights getting when it was in transit because it had to get onto the island. So, you know, this tiny little island in Maine,
Speaker: wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It would've turned some heads, I'm sure. This huge crate.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: But yes, that's probably another a great, reference as well, that if we were here just as non-working, if it was a holiday home or if we were retired, you would miss out on all those types of experiences. Yes. So we're so grateful to be able to move to France when we're still working and then get, all these amazing experiences while we're working here in France.
Speaker: Absolutely you've dug in and you've reaped the rewards of what that means. I love that. [00:42:00] So, what do you think success looks like for you compared to maybe when you first arrived?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well there's, there probably one of our biggest achievements is for four years straight, we've been the number one furniture store in France on Trustpilot.
And I didn't
Speaker: know
Speaker 2: that. That's amazing saying that. So this is also like pressure, it's like when a Michelin star chef gets right, right. They start, I've gotta maintain it. So it's like an achievement, but also success. So we, and I never thought we would come to that, we're not huge high volume compared to somebody selling, you know, pens or something we're selling.
Right. Furniture that's expensive. That's a huge honor and we're really proud of it. And that's also something that is so great for our team because we couldn't do that. The two of us, we need our team. Right. Every cog has to do, it has to function smoothly to, to make that happen.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I guess just having steady growth, like I was saying, going viral on day one is not what I would actually wish on anybody and mm-hmm. Just having constant steady growth and always going in the right [00:43:00] direction. Every sale is either a new client or a repeat client, and that repeat client could be up to their hundred and 30th purchase, they could up to be up to their third purchase.
Wow. But our clients are so loyal, which really is reinforcing that we're doing the right thing. It just encourages us to keep finding the best. Antiques for them. I know what their houses look like. They send us pictures. We've got this great gallery on our website of people, who just say, look, my chandelier is installed.
Look my mirror's up in my back room. And, they're so excited and I get so excited and I need that human contact, even though we're not face to face. Yeah. You know, it's, it's really meaningful. Otherwise you feel like you have no soul, you know?
Speaker: Right. You just feel like you have your touch on something.
You touch their lives in some way.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I also feel like, I think when we first started, our idea of success was just literally being able to buy a baguette down to the Ry. So that was success, but at a low base. Studied at a low base. But, but now I also think as well, our [00:44:00] business is fundamentally online and in our antique space, it's becoming more and more consolidated to a few big players who, massive companies listed on the Nasdaq.
And the fact that we remain not just competitive, but a preferred source of antiques for many of our customers. I think that as things become more and more competitive on the internet, we're I think for us to be able to continue to be an independent operators. Who can offer something genuinely better than the bigger players.
I think that's really important for us. And in order to keep doing that, we definitely do need to grow. I think on the internet you can't stay steady. You have to keep up with, I know the latest technology, it's never,
Speaker: Done.
Speaker 3: Which is very different to a lot of our friends have got businesses here where they might be in the hospitality industry or, and with that, once their bedrooms are filled for the season, that's kind of their limit and
so they just need to do that each year. Whereas for us being on the internet, you do need [00:45:00] to keep growing. So there's definitely, for us, the bar does need to keep getting higher each year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But it's good as well, it's good to have constant pressure, and we are competing against these huge marketplaces, but they don't often turn a profit.
So when you actually look at the reality of those businesses. It's pretty grim. You know, we've always turned a profit. It's not always been astounding, but, we're not a loss making business because we're, that's incredible. We gold strap and we don't have investors, we just value every.
Dollar of how we're gonna invest properly and grow and invest in the right people. We're fierce about our culture, and we obviously haven't worked in a work in a French business, so I have no idea what a 35 hour week looks like in a regular French business. I don't think anything like what we've made, I think people think we're crazy, but, we hire slow, fire fast.
That's, a good rule of thumb. Mm-hmm. And, we are a great little team. Every morning we do warmups. Someone chooses a song, we do our stretches. Oh, I love it. And our warmups, even if you're sitting at the desk, you, you can, pull a muscle [00:46:00] or whatever, but obviously we've got guys who are doing physical labor who are lifting heavy things.
The fir, the, an injury is gonna happen when you're cold, first thing in the morning, in the winter. We have a coffee, we chat about what everybody's doing that day, and it's just a really good way to bond. And same with having lunch. This is another thing that you just do not do in Australia.
You would eat at your desk in a business. Same in
Speaker: America?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, no, no, no. On Mja Midi, you know, it's midday. Mm-hmm. Everybody, tools down. Everybody stops. We have a cute little kitchen downstairs here. We all sit around our dining table and we just chat about.
Anything. But also from that, you get such interesting knowledge, whether it's, oh, I found this great mechanic or this dermatologist, I can get you in. Just general helpful every day sharing. It kind of fosters all of that and helps to build a really, nice culture and we want to come to work.
We spend so much time here. Yes, yes. So we want it to be a nice place that does feel homely and Yeah. And quite, you know, flexible. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: I love that. So what excites you then? [00:47:00] What's happening in your world? What's coming up next? What's exciting about the next chapter?
Speaker 2: Short term, we're going to Charleston. Yes. So, exciting. We sponsor Charleston by Design, so this is, it's only been going for a few years and this is our second year as sponsors. So it's a really, it's quite a small design event that really, it's run by the historic Charleston Foundation.
So they're all about preservation and that completely fits with our brand. But basically there's lectures with, top designers, very familiar names like Michael Smith and people like that. So we're really stoked to kind of, I'm like fan girl. We also host a lunch, for attendees as well during that.
And it's just a really lovely event. And, we get to meet clients. We are visiting a few clients in their homes. We're visiting Oh, fun. New designers. We're starting off in Atlanta, so we're visiting a few designers there. Yeah, it'll be really fun. So that's a really lovely thing to be able to actually see our antiques, where they've ended up.
I can say, oh, by the way, we're coming. They're like, come for lunch. You've gotta see what I, you know what I call Yes. [00:48:00] In my, in my an user or whatever. And that is just so lovely that, , they, like, when we were in New York last year, we had this fabulous lunch with a client called Lynn. And it was so fun.
Speaker 3: Some our clients are just so open with sharing their lives even though we've never had a single phone conversation with them.
This is all happening over emails and we've got one customer who just explains his whole life and his mother's in nursing home and his sister looks after and he's got an addiction to mortar and pests. And so he bars up mortar and pests and he shows photos of his house and they, you cannot see anything that stone mortars everywhere.
Then he would say, look, if my mother and my sister contact you to, to do an intervention, do not let them, these don't, do not stop them, from, by these modern pestles. So when you get stuck in the middle of these family, you know, sort of family if they're,
Speaker 2: and also, people buying gifts for their husbands and wives, that's the cutest, it's really, it's the best.
Yeah. Yeah. And that you cannot predict. I thought let's make a gift collection so you think, I'm gonna put ice buckets and wine [00:49:00] glasses and a few settes and cute stuff like that. But people buy the most random stuff for their husbands and wives. We've sold a horse, huge horse sculpture, Aras plant stand, which is a, they're wrought iron with claw feet.
They're very cool.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 2: All sorts of things like this. So you think I would never have put that in the gift collection. So let's just let people make their about what they need to give one another.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: I love it. So just to wrap up a little bit, for anyone that's listening to this incredibly inspiring story of you two, if they're dreaming about a big move, but they're feeling scared, what would you want them to know?
What would you tell yourself back in 2015 when you first moved?
Speaker 2: Don't be scared. Yeah.
It's hard. You have bad days, but go easy on yourself. You know? That's okay. Give yourself a full year to settle in. Yes.
Speaker 3: And I think as well, there's a really nice [00:50:00] French sort of saying, it's. Which means to make a choice is essentially giving something up as well. And
Speaker 5: mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: When we left Australia, that was right in the middle of wedding season and the temptation to go back to Australia for every friend's wedding or go back for Christmas or there are a million reasons to keep going back, but every time you do that, you are missing out on time spent on this new place that you wanna live and experience.
I also think, in our first year. I think we counted, we hosted our Australian friends and family, I think a hundred nights outta the first year, which was just crazy. And we almost felt wow. Like a hotel, and seriously, and that was a really nice experience to share with our Australian family.
And
Speaker 2: everybody's so keen to see where you're living and I wanna understand like,
Speaker 5: right, right. What is going on here? You know?
Speaker 3: Right. Also, at the same time, that takes away any sort of available capacity you have to actually dive in and experience things in France. So I think if I was to go [00:51:00] back to us in 2015, I would be saying that don't dip your toe in, you've gotta dive in, be in France and.
Your friends and family will understand and you've got lifelong bonds with them, but just take the time for yourself in France, particularly in those earlier times.
Speaker 2: And I would say crank up the Edith pf, get your map and your glass of rose and just get into it. Yeah. It's supposed to be an adventure and
Speaker: Right.
Speaker 2: It's fun. Like embrace the things that you are, you find romantic about the place, you know?
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That is such good advice. You're right. Because when you're having a bad day, but you have your why of what you moved here and it's like just lean into those things to get you through those hard days.
So
Speaker 2: yeah,
Speaker: for sure. That's fantastic. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then last but not least, where can people find you? Because I want to link everything to this podcast so they can find you and can give you more business and all the things.
Speaker 3: Sure. So for our online store, so shape louis.com. [00:52:00] And so from that you'll be able to, everyone be able to see the.
Antiques. We have available, I think we have over four and a half thousand pieces available for sale. And you go simply go through the checkout and then they arrive at your door about two weeks later. So super easy place to
you
Speaker: guys. So slick. I love it. And their website is gorgeous. Their pieces are gorgeous.
The website's gorgeous. You guys have it set up so well.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And we add about 50 to a hundred new pieces as in vintage and antique pieces each week. So, wow. You know, we're curating and photographing ourselves. We research certain pieces if they need it, you know, it might be a certain artist or whatever.
So our descriptions are very meaty and meaningful and hopefully inspiring. And also we try to be very generous to educate people as well. We don't expect anyone to know what these things are, and, you wanna learn what styles you like. So
Speaker 3: yeah,
Speaker 2: we put a lot of effort into that.
Speaker 3: And then for shipping,
We have an app called Provence Export, which is available on Apple and Google Play.
Speaker 2: Amazing. And that's the simple anti taking anywhere in France. [00:53:00] So not necessarily just Provence, you
Speaker: guys, I loved being on the phone with you. I've loved even more being able to talk with you. And I think all there is to say is we need to figure out when is a time we can actually get together in real life.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yes.
Speaker 5: Wonderful show.
Speaker 2: Love that. We would absolutely love that. And thank you for having us. It's been really fun. And yeah, just fun to share stories and yeah, it's a real pleasure.
Speaker: It's an incredible story and I'm so excited for you guys. I'm excited for everything you've done, everything you're going to continue to do and just keep watching for these bright stars you guys.
So thanks so much and we'll see you next week.
[00:54:00]