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Overdue Advice is the podcast about cash flow strategies to grow your business. Each episode covers an aspect of credit management and accounts receivable. "Legal Collections (and How to Avoid Going to Court)," "Debt Doesn't Die: Estate Collections," and "How Professional Collectors Recover More," are just a few areas covered with rare industry insights. There's no show like it!
Host Bryn Griffiths talks with guests including published authors, veteran collectors, accounts receivable trainers—and Brian Summerfelt, the CEO of MetCredit, North America's leader in ethical business debt collection, to examine all sides of debt recovery. Most importantly, you'll learn how to improve your business' cash flow—and put an end to bad debt forever.
Bryn Griffiths:
Hey, my name is Bryn Griffiths. Well, the world of credit and credit collection is always changing, mostly because the world is always on the move too. Part of that change involves great people. Today we're joined by MetCredit's new Senior Vice President, Lorne Smith. He's a 20-plus-year veteran of the credit collection business and he talks about the industry is going where it's been, some of the new stuff out there, the challenges, and how much he really loves working with and for people. He also talks about how important mentorship has been to him ... in particular, MetCredit's president and CEO, Brian Summerfelt, along with Marc Billard, who is the Chief Operating Officer. But after many years, he's back.
Lorne Smith:
Yeah, I'm happy to be back. It's a long time coming. I started originally when I was 20 years old, so I've come full circle. You know, I've always been in communications with Marc. He's been my mentor in the business. So getting back in touch with him and getting the opportunity to work back at where I learned how to do this is, it's amazing.
Bryn Griffiths:
I gotta ask, what made you go in this direction in the first place?
Lorne Smith:
I think part of it is culture. Well, not part of it. A big part of it is culture. The Met culture is, is different. It, it is staff-driven, making sure that people are taken care of in a fair and meaningful way. So it's just a different point in my career, in my life, where that balance in how work is and life is, is, is very, very important to me.
Bryn Griffiths:
Was there one or two little things that kind of steered you in that direction? You talked about, you know, the whole family atmosphere. And we've had Brian on numerous times and we can sense that every time he's come on the podcast, that type of thing. But you got to have this passion and clearly you do.
Lorne Smith:
Yeah, I, I love collections. So I got into this, like I said, when I was 20 years old and I, I got into it the same as everybody else gets into this business because they need a job. Nobody grows up believing that or wanting to be in the debt collection business. You kind of fall into it at some point and then some of us figure out that you're good at it and, you know, your skill sets lend themselves to being able to do it well. And, and luckily it, I had the opportunity for Marc to be my first manager. So I had, in my, my opinion, the best teacher in the business teaching me how to do this. And my nature is competitive.
Lorne Smith:
Just that's the part of the business that I like the most. I enjoy being competitive. I like that the marketplace is competitive. I like that there's scorecards, because then you can measure how you're doing. So there aren't many jobs that are like that, that at the end you can look at a scoreboard.
Bryn Griffiths:
Now, when you were starting, problem solving is a big part of this. We've discussed this numerous times on this particular podcast. Is that a monstrous thing for you? Is being able to, when you started, being able to help people with their, their issues and to help them with collections and that type of thing, but the problem solving thing was big for you?
Lorne Smith:
Well, I think it really boils down to, in this business, is listening. So the old saying, you have two ears and one mouth. Right. So luckily, that's always been how I've approached this business is I like to hear what the person's situation is, whether it's a consumer who has an outstanding account or whether it's an agent who works for us or whatever the case is. Most times in life, if you take the time to listen to what's actually being said, there is a solution or to whatever the problem might be. So I think it's just that that's kind of who I am, is a person is I like to listen. I like to hear people's stories. I like to understand what their situation is.
Lorne Smith:
Yeah. And then there's always a solution to every problem. There is. So that's kind of how I approach that.
Bryn Griffiths:
Like most people, we kind of veer away a little bit and we experience what's out there. You, you left MetCredit. You're now back. But tell me a little bit about that gap in the middle there. What'd you learn through all of that?
Lorne Smith:
That was a big gap. So, yeah, no, I learned all kinds of things so well, how to manage people. When I left Met, I was still pretty young. I was, I think I was 23 or 24 years old, still kind of the, the world in front of me and, and you know, thinking that you, you can tackle anything when you're that age. So. But then you go through the bumps and grinds of the business and you get to know the ins and outs of it. So, managing people was one of it. And tempering my competitive nature with understanding staff needs and all of that, I think is something that I've learned over time, like, as you get older, you mellow.
Bryn Griffiths:
Right.
Lorne Smith:
So I like to think I haven't mellowed too much, but I think I've mellowed in all the right areas. So as far as the business goes, like, I've learned, technology and all that sort of stuff the same as anybody else in this business, because it's evolved a great deal. Like when I started in this business to try and find somebody. You know, you take out a great big phone book if you're trying to find somebody, or like a reverse address book. That was enormous. So that's all the way of the dodo now. So everybody's had to evolve in the business and understand and learning how to build relationships and be somebody who I think is, in the business, viewed as trustworthy and hardworking.
Lorne Smith:
I think that goes a long way with clients and all of that.
Bryn Griffiths:
So doing a little research on you, and people first keeps coming up. That's flattering. But you got to work at that, right?
Lorne Smith:
I guess it depends on the person, right. Like, I genuinely care for people, whether it's at work, outside of work. Like, that's, I think if you do that, everything else will take care of itself. Like, it's, you know, I'll relate it to. If you're talking about somebody at work, a lot of times if, if you're not giving somebody a good job to do, they're not going to do a good job. So if you give them a good job to do, they'll do a good job, right? So, and if you treat them the right way and you give them a good job to do, well, now you've got a recipe for success, right? So if you give them, if you find the right spot for the right person and then you treat them with the respect that they deserve, that's owed to anybody. Like I said, that's a, that's a recipe for success as far as I'm concerned.
Bryn Griffiths:
In your particular situation, too, when we talk about people first, you're obviously talking about the people you work with, but also the people you have to deal with or at least when you were starting your career.
Lorne Smith:
Yep. Well, I mean, in our Code of Ethics, the, the individual needs to be respected at all times. Like, that's something that it's ... it was funny to me when I started back at Met that that's still all over the walls. Because that was all over the walls when I started.
Bryn Griffiths:
Yeah.
Lorne Smith:
And it, it's still here and it's still bred into people. So in the individual, it doesn't matter who it is. If it's the person you're sitting next to, if it's a person you're talking to on the phone, the client, whatever. I mean, I think it's just a good perspective for life, never mind work.
Bryn Griffiths:
Let's talk about how much the business has changed in, let's say, can we say the last five years or do you want to go back even further than that?
Lorne Smith:
Further than that. It's like you'd be comparing apples and rocks. So five years. Yeah, I think it's changed. There's a lot more technology that's involved. Right. And that's ever-evolving. So, you know, whether it's dialing campaigns, SMS, like digital outreach with emails, all of that, like, that's become such a critical part of the business because the demographics of the people that we're collecting from have changed.
Bryn Griffiths:
Right, right.
Lorne Smith:
So if you don't evolve over time with the times, then you're in trouble. So Brian's been like a leader in the industry as far as digital outreach forever, and that's one of the things I'm learning from here. Like, I thought I was pretty good, but when you get to Met and you see kind of everything that's happening, it's. It's pretty impressive. So we've got that nailed down, and then a few more tweaks and we're off to the races.
Bryn Griffiths:
I was at a symposium this past spring and there was a speaker there and they were talking about AI and how much that has changed and how that might find its way into the collection industry. Does it scare you? A little bit. Are you excited by that kind of stuff? Because some people don't like to think too much about technology and where we're going and other people just can't wait to take it on to see what it can do and how much it can help. How are you viewing that?
Lorne Smith:
Well, I think it's inevitable. Right. I don't think you're gonna ... you can't avoid progress as far as technology goes. I have some nerves around it. I think there's whoever is first through the door in trying to adopt that might have some problems. So my perspective on it is, it's going to happen.
Lorne Smith:
I think there's going to be bits of the business that will be taken over by that. But I would like to think, anyways, maybe I'm wrong, but I would like to think that human interaction will always matter. So, you know, AI might be able to take out some of the menial tasks or those sorts of things, or quick things that get done, like easy responses to people, even if it's communicating through omni channel, like text, email, chats, whatever. But there's a lot of hurdles to that in terms of finding companies that can provide that type of technology, but also have it link into your host system. So it's live. Like there's a lot of hurdles to overcome. And what I found is there's a lot of companies out there that will promise the moon, the sun and the stars, but then when push comes to shove, nothing is really built. Like the, the prototype might be there and it might sound good, but then like functionally and operationally, there's still, there's still a lot of challenges that have to be overcome.
Lorne Smith:
So. And there's avenues in this business that I think will never be touched by AI. Maybe that's ignorant, but I think there's, there's facets of what we do that you have to be a human because you have to be able to relate in communication and conversations with people. And that's the part that, like going back to your previous question about what's changed in the industry, and even what's changed with me is my ability to relate and communicate with people is much better now than it was when I was 20 years old starting in the business, right? Because you get life experience and you can, as you have the interactions with people over time, you can draw upon those experiences, right?
Bryn Griffiths:
The other thing too, during the pandemic, we were always told, don't talk about the pandemic. Don't talk about the pandemic. But now I'm finding that people went through that one year and learned a ton. Not just a little bit, but a ton because they had a chance to sit back and think about it a little bit. Did you learn anything from that break?
Lorne Smith:
I learned for myself that I like to work in the office. I don't know what I learned about collections, to be honest with you. I think what I've learned after is a little bit more interesting. So what happened during the pandemic and the years after is most consumers had disposable income and collections actually became easier. So actually, now thinking about it, I do have some things that I've learned. Like predictions are fool's errand is one thing that I've learned because everybody was predicting all kinds of things and none of it came true. So. But as far as what happened as a result is, collectors who started in the business during or just after the pandemic when consumers had more money...
Lorne Smith:
They've never really been through actual true debt collections where negotiations are required and you have to be able to have a meaningful conversation with somebody. So that's something that I think a lot of people are recognizing now. And one of the things that Met has done a great job at. I've spent a lot of time just sitting with the staff here watching how they work. The funny thing is they're working exactly how I was taught how to work 27 years ago. So the work that they do here is second to none on files when they come in. So they have that baseline and then teaching them how to communicate with people, that's my forte. So I think with what we have set up here, we're in good shape.
Lorne Smith:
And that's really what I've learned from the pandemic is you had people that have never had to do it before and, and they got spoiled because everybody had learned the importance of appropriate talk offs and, and training on, on how to overcome objections.
Bryn Griffiths:
Well, for the most part, Edmonton is the base. You're in Mississauga and so that's, that's great for central Canada. Is that exciting to you, the ability to perhaps build on what you've got going there?
Lorne Smith:
Yeah, I mean that's my mindset. Like I, I want to grow, so that's what I've done everywhere I've ever been is grow. So that's my hope. We're already taking steps. I'm two months in, and we're making some strides. So I'm, I'm pleased with that. It never goes as quickly as you would like, but you have to operate in reality too.
Lorne Smith:
Right. So yeah, I'm in communication with lots of people. There's opportunities here and having somebody here that has relationships with the major clients in our industry locally, I think is an improvement and it helps the company because I'm going to be able to touch base with them in person more regularly than has been happening.
Bryn Griffiths:
I don't know how fair this is. You've only been in for a couple of months. Back in for a couple of months. But what challenges do you see coming in the year ahead and maybe over the next five years? Is just, you got to take everything as it comes to you, or do you try to project a little bit?
Lorne Smith:
Oh, I like, I definitely would prefer to project taking things as they come. I don't like living life like that. So you have to be as proactive as possible as far as challenges go. I mean, there's a balance you have to find between growing and growing too fast. So there is such a thing as growing too fast. Like you can, you can take on the world and then ruin your reputation if you take on too much too quick. And I've always found that being honest with clients, if they have an opportunity, like be honest and upfront with what it is that you can or can't handle. What I've been preaching is building a foundation.
Lorne Smith:
So, right, the foundation is already here. I'm just trying to build the next level. And then from there, the opportunities for people within the company are huge because. And that's ultimately it. Like you have to be able to build the foundation of people that are working within the company now so that they see a path for themselves. And, that's what got me to where I am and that's what kind of lit the fire under me when I started at Met originally was I could look around and see the opportunities for myself. So if people see that, they generally try their best, they are engaged.
Lorne Smith:
They feel like there's a point to the work that they're doing. So that, that's kind of what I see for the next little bit. We have some technological things that are getting all sorted out or upgraded in the next couple of months. And then from there it's just onwards and upwards.
Bryn Griffiths:
Hey, so you're excited about everything? It's fantastic. I bet you can hardly wait to get to the holiday season so you can kind of go, “I think I'm finally getting settled in.”
Lorne Smith:
Yeah, I'm starting to have that feeling now, to be honest with you. The first month was a lot of learning and honestly a bit overwhelming. Last month I felt like I was starting to get comfortable and hitting my stride a bit. And I think that feeling is coming from building relationships with people within the company. So when you come in and you know there's a handful of people that remember you because we have a lot of tenured people here. So there are people here that we know each other from my original time here. But as people get to know me and understand where I'm coming from, what my intentions are and what it is that I'm trying to do, I think everybody's kind of getting on the same page, and once that kind of happens and you have buy in from people, you know, anything's possible.
Bryn Griffiths:
It's exciting though.
Lorne Smith:
Very. I'm just really happy to be back. Like dealing with Marc and Brian, there's nobody like him in the business. Like, Marc, I said before, is my mentor in this business. And I've told him that, you know, I feel like I owe them both something. So that's where the drive comes from for me. Like, I owe these guys just from giving me the tools when I was young, to be able to get to where I am now. If I didn't have that from back then, I wouldn't be where I am now.
Lorne Smith:
There's a family atmosphere here. These guys are ... they're different.
Bryn Griffiths:
Well, congrats and thanks for taking the time to talk today.
Lorne Smith:
Thank you very much.
Bryn Griffiths:
Hey, that's it for today's episode of Overdue Advice. We we're easy to find online. MetCredit is on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and X @MetCredit. And you can also check out Brian Summerfelt’s blog. It's easy to find, too. It's blog.metcredit.com. The website also includes numerous helpful tools and calculators to assess your business debt risk. And we'd also love to hear from you. So subscribe, like or leave us a review on this or any of our podcasts and make sure you share that podcast with your friends and business associates.
Bryn Griffiths:
You can drop us a line at overdueadvice@Metcredit.com. Overdue Advice, the podcast about cash flow strategies to grow your business. I'm Bryn Griffiths.