#32: David Edelman (Thrivable)

David Edelman — CEO & Founder of Thrivable — on building the leading online community for those touched by diabetes (Diabetes Daily), company building, closing their $1.7mm seed round, helping healthcare companies capture the voice of the patient, and reducing the research cycle from months to hours.

Show Notes

Our conversation this week is with David Edelman  — CEO & Founder of Thrivable, based here in Cleveland. 

David is an entrepreneur, author, and speaker who developed the vision for Thrivable through his work building Diabetes Daily, a leading online community helping those with diabetes thrive. A firm believer that every key decision health care companies make should have patient input, he created the Thrivable rapid-research platform to make it easy for companies to connect with the patients that matter most to make better products and services. Thrivable recently closed on $1.7mm in seed funding.

We cover everything from how to foster and build community, to market research, to fundraising, to the challenges of company building and many of David’s entrepreneurial stories along the way! Enjoy.

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Learn more about Thrivable: https://thrivable.app/

Connect with David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidedelman/

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Learn more about Jeffrey @ https://jeffreys.page

Connect with Jeffrey on Linkedin or on Twitter

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Creators and Guests

Host

Jeffrey Stern

What is Lay of The Land?

Telling the stories of entrepreneurship and builders in Cleveland and throughout Northeast Ohio. Every Thursday, Jeffrey Stern helps map the Cleveland/NEO business ecosystem by talking to founders, investors, and community builders to learn what makes Cleveland/NEO special.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:00:00]:
It was this journey to solve a problem paired with being part of this community of people. I haven't really put it in that Stern before until just now, but I I really think those are are 2 themes, like creating things together The that really That really drives me.

Jeffrey Stern [00:00:16]:
Let's discover the Cleveland entrepreneurial ecosystem. We are telling the stories of its entrepreneurs and those supporting them. Welcome to The Lay of the Land Northeast where we are exploring what people are building in Cleveland. I'm your host, Jeffrey Land today, we are talking about the confluence of community building, of market research, and of diabetes. David Edelman founded Thrivaal, which is a Cleveland based startup that has just recently closed on $1,700,000 in funding After experiencing the disconnect firsthand between what diabetes patients want and what health care companies are actually building, Drivable helps these healthcare companies get the voice of the patient into all of their decisions and reduces this research cycle from months down to hours. Thriveable also includes an ancillary platform called Diabetes Daily, which is a leading online community reaching millions every year helping those touched by diabetes achieve healthier, happier Land more hope filled lives. We go really deep here on community building and company building Land, really, the whole journey that David has experienced over the last few years, and it's a pretty incredible journey at that. I really enjoyed this conversation a lot, and I hope you all you as well.

Jeffrey Stern [00:01:41]:
So, like, any good story, You know, I, it always helps to start at the beginning. So, I I'd love to travel back in time a bit here and kind of work through The, The arc of your entrepreneurial journey. So to start, can you just tell us a little bit about your background and some of those formative moments that set you on this path?

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:02:00]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think I've always been a couple of. 1, not a role follower, you know, got kind of if I was like booted from 1st grade or asked to leave, but you know, really butted heads my 1st grade teacher who demanded that I read something I did not want to read and, things like that that escalated until actually. You know, let's not start with my 1st grade dysfunction. Let's, let's move ahead 2, entrepreneurial journey, formative years. I think one of the first things that I did that was really formative for me was Creating a dial up BBS when I was 13 years old out of the, out of my bedroom. So I had a second phone line and people would call in or and, you know, connect to the the modem. And I had to, like, figure it all out.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:02:49]:
You have to download the software to run the VBS Land you have to, like, kind of play with the code. I didn't know anything about coding to, like, get it to have the name of my BBS, and I can't even remember what it's called. I think my name was something really janky, like dark warrior or something, you know, 13 year old boyish. That was I didn't have a cool name. Like there's a member Jabberwocky. Like, that was a cool name. I always had a little envy on that.

Jeffrey Stern [00:03:15]:
Private Tinkles. That was that was our goatee name forever.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:03:20]:
That's it's delightful. See, it's it's it's of and cutesy. And so But I built up this little community even then where I remember I got a $20 donation. I was getting invites to go meet up at Squires Castle and go play Frisbee from people who were in their twenties, like having no idea they're chatting with a 13 year old boy in his bedroom, but it was a cool thing. We I think the basic premise of the BBS was that we would download, like, cracked games by Razer1911, and there's just like a cracking group from the nineties. And then I think we're past the statute of limitations, so they can share this. And we would just, like, people would, like, log in and download them. We distribute it.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:03:57]:
So it's like a little, like, if you would talk about video games, like a, like, chat forum Land people just people just log on and leave messages for each other and and share files. And I thought that was the coolest thing. It was fun to play with The tact. It was fun to figure out how it worked. It was it was this journey to solve a problem paired with being part of this community of people. I haven't really put it in that terms before until just now, but I really think those are 2 themes, like creating things together The that really That really drives me. I think I kept a lot of that. I was always kind of working on stuff as a teenager, like kind of into computers, but but not just like music recording.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:04:38]:
And I had a project in high school to spend a year recording an album. I actually recorded like new songs. It's actually really hard to record an The, but like building a home studio, figuring how it works Land digital, a multitrack recorder. And I I remember one of my classmates, Mike Lovett, did the same thing, but he did analog, like with, with tape thing. At the end, like I had just done my presentation. I'm really nervous, like presenting in front of the school Land like This is, you know, it's I'm a teenager. I don't I don't want all that attention. And and he came up afterwards and he's like, I should have gone digital.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:05:10]:
And I was like, to me, that was like the best compliment ever, right? That like it, it sounded The good. You know, went off to went off to college, went to Brown because there weren't a lot of rules and I could do what I want and kind of make my own education, because I don't know what I was doing or what I wanted to do. So, I kind of maybe screwed around a little bit and did not, you know, maximize

Jeffrey Stern [00:05:32]:
Following your 1st grade self.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:05:34]:
Following my 1st grade self, except I was not asked to leave. I was asked to stay. I was given a diploma. My parents found out I was an education major on graduation day. They're like, before Land education major. At Brown, it's very interdisciplinary. So, like, you know, going into my senior year, I was like, I need to I need to graduate. And so, I'd like Taken a sociology class, a philosophy class, a politics class The all could kind of be crammed into this category of education.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:05:59]:
You know, that was my path pathway to a degree. But I worked on some entrepreneurial things there too as well. I started a digital magazine called Scatter, which was like Facebook, except not worth $1,000,000,000,000 today, and worked in a Sunrise alarm clock, worked on just always I worked for this guy, Rick Goldman, who was The CFO, and he was just looking for, Like a college helper, he wanted to launch this company called Bookkeeping Solutions, which was like remote bookkeeping be before it was cool and, you know, way ahead of the market. Like you need to like a like big scanners and everything is slow and the computers, but like, right. It's still a cool idea. And Land and I just love that stuff. Land after college, I got a job at my worst nightmare, a large industrial Real distribution company that is incredibly good at printing money and like incredibly good at printing money, but like does not want any innovation on any level. Yeah.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:06:56]:
They're The company's just dumb.

Jeffrey Stern [00:06:58]:
They figured out the way they do it. And that's the way.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:07:01]:
Exactly. And so, I struggled there for a year, left like One day short of a year. I think I would have, like, even made a bonus if I could have stayed 1 more day, but, like, you know, like, reached my absolute capacity. And, you know, went to work for a family business and and started doing some freelance web design on the side, helping companies with Stern and websites and stuff like that. It all came to a head when I met a woman, Elizabeth. This was in 2005, and we went on a date down to Sushi Rock downtown. It wasn't a Lay. We're actually set up by, well, we had a mutual friend and she invited us all out.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:07:36]:
But on the way back, she was talking about she can never figure out the right amount of insulin to take for sushi. And so we, you know, went to look online and figure out, alright, how much insulin do you take for sushi? And there was no good answers. There was a kind of clicky diabetes forum out there, but that was it. And so we thought, how great would it be if there was still a website where people could connect and share information, kind of open, supportive environment. And so we put up, we put up diabetesdaily.com and started started working on it. I don't know The it's this like The is 2005. It's in 2021, Stern years ago. And there's just so much that has happened.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:08:18]:
Like if we could probably do a whole podcast on my commercial failures attached to Diabetes Daily. You know, at Diabetes Daily University, we got one word deindexed by Google, The Medicare changes, got rid of 70% of customers in one Lay, but I of of just write in the companies.

Jeffrey Stern [00:08:31]:
I mean, many of those things sound really interesting there, but I'd love to just kind of pull on the thread That you Land of mentioned earlier on, having Land of realized the the commonality of this community building and and figuring stuff out As Land of these 2 passions of yours. With Diabetes Daily, was there a vision of, You know, the community that you ultimately ended up building? Or was it really just about, you know, trying to answer The sushi question? Or or, you know, what Andrew: What degree in the future were you thinking about when you threw this up?

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:09:04]:
Andrew: That's an interesting question. Probably thinking It wasn't meant to be like a business. It wasn't like, alright, I'm going to have a Stern up and I'm going to build this thing. It was very much a The would be fun to work on, like a hobby, squarely in the hobby camp. And for me, I just, I liked the learning at all the levels. I liked learning about diabetes. I liked learning about development. I like learning about, you know, Google AdWords, marketing.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:09:30]:
It was just a chance to kind of dive in and pick up all these skills while helping people. So, it's just a great environment in which to do that. And so, I mean, I remember when we had 10 visitors a day and I was So stuck because you could like follow the individual visitor around. I was like, I went to this page or that page. Someone would post a question on the forum Land I would immediately like go look at journals, do all the research Land, like, figure out how to give this person the a plus answer, like a Stern Exchange classic post. And every single person, I did that. This is stuff that does not scale. Right? If if I remember at some point in the middle of The doing, like, a little calculation on, like, Total revenue divided by hours spent.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:10:14]:
And it was like, maybe I was making $3 an hour, maybe $2 an hour. Like, it's preposterous as a business. So, I think it was hard to imagine as a business. Like, I didn't know how to sell advertising. I didn't know anything about business, really. But I I had this desire to to create something Land it it slowly grew. Right? It's maybe a I I need to go back and pull the old graphs, but, like, it's, you know, end of End of year 1, we had to add, like, 10,000 visitors. Right? And end of year 2 was 500 a day, The it's a 1,000 a day, then 2,000 a Lay.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:10:48]:
And Now it's, you know, hundreds of thousands a month and, you know, millions per year of people Land it's like, It's unfathomable. I don't think I could have started Land imagined that kind of scale of reaching people. It's pretty cool.

Jeffrey Stern [00:11:02]:
It is really cool. I of to hear some of the stories that that maybe have come as a consequence of building this community and and how, you know, people have kind of interacted, because I I think all these, like, online communities are just, like, fascinating in the way that people without knowing each other are just Really helping each other.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:11:21]:
It's wild. And they're, you know, The are moments that are poignant and moments that are like some of my best friends in the world, some of like Most of my best friends in the world, like, live across the world Land I've met through this community work. And but maybe I'll start with a quick Example of The of these, like, moments that has just stuck with me. So, in 2012, I was getting divorced. Part wasn't so fun, but I was also getting in shape. I decided I had done a 5 k The last year. And then I had done a 10 ks like 3 weeks later Land I was terrified of the 10 ks because it's twice as long as a 5 ks Land I'd never done a 5 ks and the 5 ks was really hard. At the end of the 10 ks, I'm like, I felt amazing.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:12:03]:
I have probably the best runners high of my life. And so I got to the finish line and I was like, we have to do a marathon next year. This is awesome. My, my friend, Carrie. And so, so I signed up for a marathon the next year Land then I kind of trained the best I could. And so now it's The, a year later and I am About to go to the starting line of the Chicago marathon. And I must have mentioned it on the on Diabetes Daily because I got a a message, maybe it was on Facebook Land it was like, hey, I'm a member of the The, and I just wanted to I heard you were running the Chicago Marathon. I am running it tomorrow or two 2 Lay.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:12:37]:
I'd love to meet you. Do you want to meet for coffee the day before? So, I said, absolutely, that sounds phenomenal. And so we met at a little coffee shop, and She's like interviewed her husband Land her husband, like, went off to hang out and we just sat there Land she told me this incredible story. She's, I think she was 52. She's I'm probably 52. She said I was 48 Land I had, when I got diagnosed with diabetes, she's like, and I was an athlete. I was like top shape in my life, really into everything, and it all fell apart. I couldn't manage it.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:13:08]:
I couldn't do any of it. It was about a year later Land she's Cleveland I was making plans to commit suicide. And she said one of the things that saved me is I was looking up diabetes And running, and I came across Diabetes Daily Land I started reading all these posts from people who are athletic, doing triathlons and Ironmans and doing it all with diabetes. And she's like, and something just shifted in me Land she's like, I think that if I had not found diabetes daily, she's like, I don't even know if I'd be alive today, let alone Sitting here about to run the Chicago marathon. And that just like goosebumps and tingles, like it was

Jeffrey Stern [00:13:47]:
I literally got goosebumps just now, so

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:13:51]:
So, like, that's the thing. Like, things can be so impactful on a micro scale, like like the 1 person, and then you try to scale up into your head to, like, You know, everyone who visits, a lot of people are looking at recipes or they're, you know, whatever. It's not like you're not necessarily transforming their life, but there are actually a lot of people who whose lives are transformed by that connection, the peer support they get because diabetes is hard. The rates of depression are through the roof. Maybe 1 out of 3 people with diabetes at any given time is experiencing depression, and it's, it's everything in your life, Plus, the fact that you have to manage your blood sugars for, on behalf of your pancreas all day without a break. And if you have Dessert or go have a really active day or a sedentary day when usually active, like, it throws your body into it, a tailspin that you have to manage yourself. And so that's hard. That's really hard.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:14:42]:
And I didn't until I, you know, met and lived with someone living with diabetes, I didn't get it. Right? I didn't, well, I didn't actually know what diabetes was. I didn't get a lot of of. But Just to see how how much work, and it's invisible. Right? You don't see it on the outside. Someone looks fine. You don't know that their, like, blood sugars are 300, which is really high, and they're feeling Just awful, like just nauseous. They want to throw up and yet they have to go through and be on a podcast or take a test or run a race, you know, whatever it is.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:15:15]:
So I think of her all the time.

Jeffrey Stern [00:15:17]:
Yeah. I can imagine. That's, that's a powerful story. When you think about this community At this point, and I imagine it maybe has changed over time, but is it a place really for people to find answers? Is it a place for people to find support? You know, how, how does the community kind of evolved in The, in that way?

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:15:38]:
Doctor Yeah, I mean, it's, it's multiple things to multiple people. It's kind of interesting too because there are multiple communities within the community. There are people who, you know, more passive. Right? They subscribe to our newsletter. They read our blog Land and that's their engagement. They're just like, you know, I got an email today I share with the team that was like, Oh my God. I read everything you write. I love it.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:15:58]:
Just keep doing what you're doing and never stop. It's like, Lay, that's, that's, that's cool. Right? But they're, so they're reading, but they're not necessarily interacting. You You know, that's that's more the exception than the rule. We have a Facebook community that people are, you know, half a 1000000 or so followers. And so, share stuff there Land like the comment section is its own little community. It's Facebook. It's the Wild West of all people.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:16:19]:
And then you have the the forum, which which I really consider the heart of our community. And that is very much around, like, people come with a question, but they'll stay for the support. You, you, you Land it because you're searching for something and then you find other people and then people just kind of end up coming back. And a lot of people Land of come, solve The problem Land go. A lot of people come, solve their problem, Land then whenever they have a problem, they're back. And other people become, you know, become regulars. And just To be honest, there are some people who spend, I kid you not, over 40, 50 hours a week on the website, which is vile, but they what they get out of this, and it's a lot of people who are retired. Right? They're retired Land they're like, I, my job is everyone who comes here with The problem, I'm gonna try to save their life.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:17:04]:
Like that's that's Land they get all this joy from, like, from, from, from that, for offering that kind of help. And that's, I mean, that's kind of the key to it. I've been thinking a lot today as you know, thinking about the podcast, like, what is it that makes a community? Like, What is The, that recipe? It's funny because the same thing that my answer for diabetes is actually the same answer Northeast company Thriveable, like what, like The team that runs it. But it's it's finding people who love the community and want to take care of it. It's can't be yours, right? If you try to build a community and it's like, I, it's my community and I'm going to just run it and we're going to get a lot of people and they're just going to come and it'll grow up. Like, you actually need the moderating team. You need the regulars. You need the people who are and those people are the culture.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:17:52]:
Right? They're the ones who you can only interact with so many people. And then this is the 2nd order group of people that maybe absorb your culture and help spread it spread to the community. So we have, like, 8 moderators across Four continents, you know, as far away as Malaysia and, you know, the UK and Canada and the US, and They make the organization, they make the community work. I can't read every post. There's like 1,000 every week. So, it's, you You know, someone needs to take care of each person who comes and make sure their experience is positive. And then they set, as an example, the culture, and then you need community values that We, you know, talk a lot about instill in the community. So, people will report a post if there's a problem, right? They'll say this is someone's offering medical advice, someone's being rude or someone's passive aggressive.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:18:39]:
Land, you know, it takes a lot of the hardest part about community is just people, Land, managing people.

Jeffrey Stern [00:18:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. People are the community.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:18:48]:
And maybe not the 95% of people, but it's like there's a couple percent of people that are like, some people The just toxic Land you're like, alright, you The is community. It doesn't work. And it's we give you 5 chances and you just cannot interact with people without, like, going off the handle all the time. Okay. So that's like, it's a tiny group of people. Like, maybe, Maybe there's 10 people a year, 5 people a year. You need to be like, this just isn't working. But then you have a group of people who are actually really good people and their hearts in the right place, but Maybe their social skills are just not a 100%.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:19:21]:
Right? They're they're like good hearted cantankerous or, like high value, misinformed and strong willed about it. And then you get a couple of people like that and they clash Land Yes, confidently wrong. Confidently wrong. But that's, you don't want to lose people like that. And so, but that like a little percentage of the community is so much work because you don't want to just kick people out like you could probably do a harder line and some communities do, but we've always tried to be inclusive for better or worse.

Jeffrey Stern [00:19:51]:
Yeah. Well, it sounds like we're better. We're better.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:19:54]:
There were a lot of communities. There are not a lot of diabetes communities right now. There's some on social media, some big Facebook groups, but it's, it's kind of strange. Like there was a large number of communities and then The, most of them just kind of atrophied and and and went away.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:09]:
Yeah. So, there's some staying power and longevity that has come as a consequence of this.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:20:14]:
Don't make too many changes. Almost every major collapse is preceded by so many, like, we have this new, better platform. And the problem is people hate change. And so now we make changes. It's like, we're gonna change just the navigation or just 2 buttons. Like, all of our changes are incremental. When we switched forum software, We made it look precisely like the old one, even though it's not exactly the necessarily the best, best layout, but it's like what people knew. A couple tweaks, couple of, but

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:42]:
There's comfort Land there's comfort in what people know.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:20:45]:
Yeah, it's a little chicken bowl of matzo ball soup. It's comfort food for me. Yep. Me as well. Me as well.

Jeffrey Stern [00:20:53]:
But I'd love to cross the bridge here to to Thriveable and kinda speak to to what you're building there. So, you know, at some point, what you're building with with Diabetes Daily transitions from what is a hobby to Is there ever this intent that this is actually something I want to make a business and pursue full time Land and then just of paint the picture of What Thriveable is and how it kind of developed out of this progression of the growth of Diabetes Daily?

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:21:21]:
The. The desire to make it a business It started, I think is like the amount of time it took up to start to Northeast. Like a hobby is great, right? You're like, oh, what's your hobby? I, you know, repair old cars. I go, You know, I, I, I Lay music and I do it after work for an hour or 2. But if your hobby starts taking up 30 to 40 hours a week, like you Probably need to find a way to get paid for your hobby because that is not sustainable. And then it's worse when you're like, well, actually now I have, you know, development expenses and I have, I need other people because I wanted, like you start to need help and you're like, alright, so this, this needs to be a business. And so my, I, I stayed very generously, but my Land, I'm employed in the family business, which gave me, a modest income to cover the rent and, and to really for for years and invest in turning Diabetes Daily into more of a business. It took a while.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:22:12]:
Like, is you on a Of social media website, a media website, you need millions of page views. Like, you can't do it with hundreds of thousands. You literally need millions of page views to start to make any kind of money. You can make money by just putting an ad network on your website, but you don't get paid a lot. Like, an example of a rate would be like $3 per 1,000 page views. Would be like a great rate for for advertising. But if you have an advertiser running ads directly on your website, it might be $30, $20, $40 depending upon what it is. And so it's just an order of magnitude more revenue.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:22:46]:
And so in the 20, like 20 16, 2017, 2015 started getting some bigger advertisers. We're finally at a big enough scale where we could do that. And then with that, we could afford to professionalize, like add to our team and started to have The wasn't a lot of people. I think we had like 2 full time equivalents, which to me was just like enormous, enormous team. It's just me. So Vida too is like, wow, it's 3 times bigger. But it's not just 2, it was like 4 or 5 people working part time. So it was like this Huge, huge, huge team.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:23:16]:
And it started to work, but the problem is I hate advertising. I hate it. I hate selling advertising. It is a it is a hard business to build up. It is not scalable. You're dependent on like traffic from Google, traffic from Facebook, traffic from whoever, and You're at the mercy of getting all these advertisers all the time. And it's just like, I like to help people Land an advertisement doesn't exactly help people. I happen to actually like every single one of our advertisers.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:23:45]:
Insulin makes my favorite. Insulin pump, Dexcom, continuous glucose meters. You know, we have, Of Insulin Pumps. These are actually some of my favorite products in the the space, and I really, really like them. But selling advertising, it's like selling sand to Bedouins in the desert. Like, there is an endless amount of places that you can go to get sand in the desert, and that is true of Advertisers can go to any ad network, behavioral targeting, they can kind of reach your niche. Diabetes is pretty good. It's a little harder to reach.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:24:15]:
So, we do have the ability to sell advertising, but it's just never gonna be this big, long term success Land it's it's just risky. And I wanted something that was more in my control that was going to be more sustainable. I was like, I want Diabetes Daily to live, not die. And for that, it needs a better business model. And so I started searching, just started looking like, what do we have? And People had come to us over the years and would say something like, you're sitting on all this data. It's just this gold mine of data. And I would ask them, oh, great. How do you turn data into money? Like, like I'm missing, like a key piece here.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:24:53]:
Like no one's ever called me and been like, David, I'd like to buy your data. But what does, what does that mean? Land The guy who gave me the key to unlocking it was Luis Diaz, who was Chief Patient Officer at Medtronic. I was at the American Diabetes Association conference. It's every year. It's like 20,000 people show up, including All the researchers and everybody from industry. So everyone from every company is there. So for us, this is like our 5 day hustle. Have like 20, Twenty meetings a day Stern with like 8 AM breakfast.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:25:24]:
I try to move those to 9 by the 3rd day, maybe 10 because the parties go till 2 in the morning, but that's, Those are also good networking, a chance to, you know, close the deal. So, it's day 1 of this conference and I'm meeting with Luis Diaz Land he, He mentions David, you just had this great opportunity. I said, Louis, if you were me, pretend you're me Land I just, I get, I'm going to give you diabetes daily. What would you do? And he said, listen, I would start a market research service, like, Land, and The, and he went through, Here are our current competitors. Here are current providers. Here's what I don't like about them. Here's like some ways you could do it better Land just Land of outline this. And once I got that word market research, it was like, it was the key to unlock this whole mystery of like, what is data? Well, data is What do patients think about X, Y, and Z? You're bringing a product to market.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:26:13]:
Medtronic makes insulin pumps, continuous glucose meters. What should the app screen look like? What should the insulin pump look like? What are how should notifications, alerts work? How do you price it? Like, what it what are unmet needs? Like, there's just a Land in running a company, there's just a 1000000 questions you have to answer. And the problem in the market research space was you have these big agencies. We go to an agency, you give them a question And it costs 20, 30, $40,000 Land it takes 2 to 3 months to get an answer. So imagine you're developing an app and you have, like, a couple small questions Or maybe you wanna know tomorrow. That's not super helpful. You're like, you're not gonna use that. You're gonna just kinda go with your gut.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:26:53]:
You're gonna sit around a table and come with the best thing, and You really do see the impact of that type of decision making in the products. They come out and patients are like, Wait, why in the world did you do it this way? In the healthcare space where something might be FDA approved, like switching isn't just you just tweak the code, like it might be a 2 year FDA release cycle before you can fix here, your mistakes. So Luis Diaz opened it up. And then that rest of that conference, I remember going into every one of these ad sales meetings. Hey, would you like to buy of advertising? Yeah. Okay. We'll do what we did last year. Fine, fine, fine.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:27:28]:
And then when I get to the end, I'd be like, We're thinking about market research, making it easy for you to talk to patients. Oh, everybody sits forward and like The light up Land they're like all of a sudden I was like, woah, This is that thing called market pull. Like 10 years, I haven't felt The. Like, I've never felt what it's like when someone actually wants what you're selling. So it's this crazy light bulb moment. So that was 2017, went away for a year, came back in 2018, And I had recruited 5,000 patients for a panel and went to start pitching it. And We got a enormous contract from the very first person we talked to Land it was like, like, like, like mind below in contract size. And we realized, woah, there is, like, there's an opportunity here.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:28:21]:
And so we did that. We did a bunch of projects. We had this really big customer that we were able to service Land and servicing The, okay, a market research services company is great, but the problem is this industry, it's completely run on spreadsheets. It's agencies, right? So you, oh, I want to, they send you a document, you send them back Land like It just goes on and on and on and on. And then we had all these patients, 5,000, this big data set. Well, what happens when their data changes? Is how do you verify all the data? How do you do quality control? How do you do all these things? And we're like, okay, there's probably a solution to this out there. So, let's just go buy 1. Went out to the market and scoured every single possible writer of the space.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:29:02]:
And like all you all said, they like did panel management. They could no one had anything that was close to what we needed. And it was shocking. It was like this weird moment of serving the marketplace and being like there's a giant hole in it. How did that happen? So, decided let's go out and raised a seed round. So, this was first experience with fundraising. Was it I don't know traumatizing is the word, but it's like and it's on us. So, for anyone who's thinking about raising money or as Entreprenuership raised money, like either this will help you or like internalized this, like the thing that I needed to know the most badly when raising money was investors do not care about your product.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:29:47]:
They do not care about your product. They they just don't care about your product Land they don't even care how it works. They care that, like, it works and there's a customer for it Land it can there's a model to make money around it. They care about your product insofar as it is it differentiated in the marketplace? Is it Real is maybe, so they care, but they don't actually so I'd be starting with a demo and talk about all these amazing features and all these innovations Land people like Glaze over, they get lost, like in these short conversations, you can't build common ground. So, I was going to pitch people Land it was not going well. The 2nd meeting, like, the 2nd meeting I had was with this guy, Brad Owen, who built an amazing company called NeverBounce and x Stitched to ZoomInfo a couple years ago, and I've known Brad for since my, you know, early twenties, in my Stern. And I met up Brad as an advisor and said, Brad, Can you help me figure out how to work on our pitch? The is before I got all The, feedback. Thankfully, Brad's extremely smart and like immediately understood what we're talking about and was like, this is great, like, and he gave me all this advice.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:30:55]:
And then I'm on the way home from that meeting and I get a phone call, it's Bryce, David, so are you would would I be able to invest? And so for this 1st round, we wanted to raise a big round. We ended up kind of completely striking out on fundraising, but Brad Brad was the round. And and Brad helped us, you know, kind of really joined our team as an ad hoc member. He was really into it. Helped us find the right developers. He he brought us the most amazing user interface designer, user experience person I've ever met Who's just like a genius? It's hard to explain because she's even asked, like, a lot of questions. She just, like, talk and she hears, just like, uh-huh, uh-huh. I'm like, Do you know what I'm talking about? She's like, oh, yeah.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:31:35]:
Yeah. Okay. No no question. Nope. Just just quiet. Then she comes back Land it's like the like, This, like, incredibly simple Lay, like, and the more complicated our app gets, it's everything stays simple. And it's The, like, it's a genius. It's a genius thing.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:31:50]:
Like, she came back with 1 user interface. I talked to her right before we chatted Land she just she's like, oh, well, some of these things can be in an error state, so we'll just circle them in red. Like, we had all, like like and it's such a visually identifiable thing. It's Cleveland The message can pop up here explaining why on this particular condition is met. And it's I don't know. Like, none of the individual things are actually all that complicated, but they're beautiful, easy to understand, simple, and I don't know. It's hard to appreciate that because it's so it looks so easy. So, I love Carly.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:32:20]:
Carly, if you're listening, I love you. Thank you. Thank you for being on our team.

Jeffrey Stern [00:32:25]:
Great shout out to Carly.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:32:27]:
So, Brad saved our bacon and helped us get The. We got together a tech team. Skye, you're I've been this is another funny story. So so we wanted to do this, like, in a really scrappy way. So our first plan was, alright, we're gonna do this big thing and we're gonna get raise, you know, $1,000,000 and go build this MVP. And the new plan was, okay, $250,000 scrappy, small team, like, let's just get this done Land prove it out in the marketplace, which by the way is a way better way to do it The I highly recommend to anybody. So So we went out and we found a guy through word-of-mouth. We started interviewing tons of developers on Upwork.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:33:03]:
We started to try to put together this team. And so we found this guy in Russia who was like amazing back end guy, highly, highly recommended. And we retained him and we retained this front end. Now it's like 2 weeks into the project and we're talking about like database design and like we can't get to understand our product exactly. And I'm starting to have, like, heart palpitations like, oh Lay God, we're gonna this project is gonna be a Stern. Like, what are we gonna do? We have to pull the cord. And then I've been working with a guy with Diabetes Daily on the tech side, Euro, since about 2008. He helped us with an integration, and it was the only tech project I'd ever had at that point, maybe until today The worked perfectly well.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:33:42]:
Like it's flawless. And so I started working with Yuriy and said, Yuriy, can you please like help us with diabetes daily and be our guy for all things tech Land and he he became that. And so I'm telling him this Land before he had bid on this project, but it was like an order of magnitude more expensive. And I was like, Tell him about this project. He's like, Dave, let me talk to the guys. And so he came back 2 days later with an email. He's like 0.1 to 10. I will do it for this price.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:34:06]:
If we cannot get it done by this time, our team will volunteer their time until it's live. We will do support it. We will do The, and it will be a great experience. And you're, put together the most amazing team, just A plus engineers. He's in Germany, they're in Ukraine, and This is one of those things where it's like, I can't even imagine how this would have worked without Europe because our tech is really good and our release cycle is really predictable. Things are really scale, but we just had an audit with a firm, a code audit, and they're like, no feedback. Like, everything is done right. This seems scalable, secure infrastructure, like, and that's unusual.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:34:43]:
A lot of projects end up not with The, but Jiro's day job, he works for a $1,500,000,000 German tech startup And like, he is like a lead engineer of a 40, 50 person team. And like, so all he does is like secure, scalable stuff in addition to the hacky startup stuff. So, you like, He understands both things, and that's super rare. So, got, you know, Yura helped bring this thing to life and Carly's interface. So, we wanted to get the beta launched in 90 Lay. That was our plan. So, we started on January 1 and it launched August 1st.

Jeffrey Stern [00:35:19]:
So And

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:35:20]:
it's just like The thing after because it turns out research is really, really, really complicated. You need to be able to profile panelists, bring them onto a platform, you need to manage the profiles, you need to be able to distribute research, you need a survey builder with All like, you have to build, like, a SurveyMonkey on top of, like, a CRM, basically, just to, like, be at an MVP. It's nuts. It was like under the kind of of, it was kind of nuts Land it still feels a little bit nuts. But I had a baby. I got married, 2 years ago Land I had a baby on May 2, 2020. So, we're in the we're in the thick of COVID. Let me tell you, let's, let's, let's like go back to this time.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:35:59]:
Do you remember what's going on May 2nd about last year?

Jeffrey Stern [00:36:02]:
I remember nothing from the last year.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:36:05]:
Okay. So, it's hard to think about this now, but the stock market had been completely crushed. It was down like 30%. So, here I am. I've had a baby and our beta is now we wanted to get done in July, did not know it was going to take till August. I think maybe it was even mid August. We had enough money to survive till August. So, new baby, new dad, wife, Staying home with the baby at the time.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:36:32]:
Got a great job now. And just like, holy shit, I better get this, like, fundraising show on the road. But I felt pretty good because we had laid the groundwork during the previous fundraising round Land there were a lot of people Lay actually been interested. And so I had really good quick results called, like, 4 or 5, 6 people got to, like, 300,000, 400,000 interest in, like, a week. Amazing, right? And had some firms that were interested. And then it came back, so everyone's like, yeah, yeah, we're ready to go. Just want a lead investor He's ever wants someone to do the due diligence. So if there is any business that is like the old video game Lemmings, like, investors is the business.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:37:14]:
Like like, I can tell you, like, the 1st institutional investor took 4 or 5 months. The second one took, like, 1 month. The final one Took 2 weeks Land it's 3 meetings, then an offer in 10 days of me deciding whether we want to expand around. And that was the biggest check. It was twice as big as the 2nd biggest check. So, it's like this crazy experience of as soon as someone will jump off the cliff, Then everyone else will go. They're like, alright, we're in, we're in, we're in, we're in. So, I screwed up because I took this early interest like, hey, we can get to like a We were I think that when we went out, we wanted to raise, like, $350,000, maybe 1,000,000.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:37:53]:
Like, okay, we have enough people to get 30, 40% of the way there. Like, How hard can it be once you are like, we'll get a couple more Land we'll be most of the way there Land we'll just close it out. That is not good thinking. Like, the good thinking is, alright, we're going to run a process, and so we need to get 20 Firms, venture firms, preferably a number not in Cleveland to drive valuation up, to be interested during the same, like, 2 week period and run a process, but I didn't know anything about that. So, what saved me The, it's funny not to get every story. Every story is an example someone else saving me, but that's kinda how it's worked. Yeah. Yeah.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:38:33]:
So Brad, my 1st investor, Really also saved me here because he introduced me to his brother, Michael Classen, who is an executive at Greenspring Associates, which is a $10,000,000,000 private equity firm, one of the the biggest in the one of the like a VC to the VCs. And then he introduced me just to get some advice. This guy, Harris Stranch, who works at the Coppermine Capital, which is the Gund Family Foundation. They together, we started having some strategic meetings and The became my advisory board and they understand VC, like really deeply understand it. And it was amazing. We started talking with, we ended up being a little too early for them, but a top tier LA VC firm, like top, top, top tier. They invest in like 10 investments a year and they screen like 1200 companies. And we got to like the final round of diligence with them, which maybe 10 other companies get to each year.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:39:31]:
But the reason we're able to do that was Michael was able to back channel and get feedback from people. Hey, what do you think of the stack? Like and I was able to go through and tweak it, and it just went from a 12 slide deck to a 7 slide deck. It went from having a demo to not having a demo. Went from being all about the product in the future to all about our business traction. And we just kind of reoriented the whole thing. I started to learn from them how an investor thinks. I started to learn any word on a slide. If they get your investor on a tangent of unrelated questions, it will torch you and torpedo you.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:40:02]:
So like it became this incredible shrinking deck. It got smaller and smaller with every pitch because every time someone got thrown off by a word, you have to get rid of that word and Lay it with something else or nothing. And and and mostly it was nothing. Like, people, apparently, they love a 5 minute pitch. You get off track in 12 minutes, but 5 minutes, it's like you can understand the big picture and not get off track.

Jeffrey Stern [00:40:23]:
It's a journey.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:40:25]:
It's a journey. It's it's an emotional roller Stern, but you could get good at it. Right? It's Land then you realize the the noes are part of it Land you It's more like sales. Right? You have to have that orientation of, Ohio, I'm gonna talk to a 100 people, get 95 no's, get my 5 yes's. And and that's okay because you really want the right people. There's I think there's this other problem of, like, when you're getting advisors, like This was true of Diabetes Daily, right? We needed these people who are so passionate about the community. For our advisors, we need people who are passionate about us and passionate about our future and really, really want to help. Land unlocking this, I missed the boat in my twenties.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:41:03]:
I did not have an advisory board. I did not have a brain trust. Like, I wonder what I could have done if I had people to like help me learn 1 or 2 things, not the hard way.

Jeffrey Stern [00:41:13]:
Right. The other people have figured it out before.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:41:17]:
We have these big blind spots. I'll give you an example. So, one of them in fundraising, we kept getting this feedback like this People skeptical, like, alright, but how can you scale other verticals? You did this in diabetes because you have diabetes daily. How can you scale? And we would show here's our cost per acquisition. I haven't even talked about what Thrival is, but here's our, you know, what is our, you know, cost per acquisition to to to build out panelists. And we we can get it really cost effectively through social media advertising, through some partnerships. People kept pushing back and pushing back on the scalability, the scalability. And we gathered some data Land started to have a pretty compelling answer.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:41:54]:
It's interesting. It's a year later Land I have The questions about, I know we can do it, but I am recognizing how challenging scalability is, and how much effort it is to build the partnerships and the channels to actually do this. And our next hire is gonna be someone to focus on scaling our panel. So these investors, these people who had seen a ton of deals, they were right. Like The saw that this was probably the highest risk area, but I was like so confident in our vision that I wasn't kind of internalizing that. And I think maybe now that I Stern 40, like my cocky twenties do it myself, thirties trying to figure out to do it with a team. I'm now only in the humbling myself stage of my life. I think it's helping.

Jeffrey Stern [00:42:37]:
Yeah. Well, you've ultimately closed this This round here, you're right. It's ultimately it's ultimately worked.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:42:44]:
It's ultimately worked. And it's It's my advisory board. It's it's relationship building. It's my CEO, Ryan, my number 2. Like, He would say my superpower is seeing around corners. I'm really good at just imagining the future. Like, I can just kind of play in imaginary Land. Very, you know, of my imagination.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:43:03]:
Ryan's mister, like, where the rubber meets the road. He wants to hear a customer say it. He wants to see proof. He wants to see a study. He wants everything. And so, Ryan is the one who is like, I think that I was missing in all those other years. Like, here's my idea, but how do you bring it down to Earth? How do you make it actionable? How do you like, why is this gonna fail Land how do we work around it? And how do you make sure that's even a good idea? Like, it might sound good, but is it good? Is it actually good?

Jeffrey Stern [00:43:27]:
So, so how are you thinking about the future of ThrivaLifeL at this point? You know, having closed the round, having, you know, pitched the vision to investors and And they're buying Land, you know, now the rubber is hitting the road as as the team's working on the product. But but where what's the direction you're headed? Where do you wanna take this?

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:43:45]:
Yeah. So, we set out for this on demand access to patient insights. Your company, like, you know, instead of going to an agency, 2 to 4 months, 3 to 4 weeks of they're scrappy, We got it down to under 72 hours, often under 48 hours, sometimes under 24 hours. And so we want to, You know, step 1 is scaling this through all of healthcare, right? So, any condition. And it's amazing. Everyone we talk to in the health care space, this is a problem for, like a 100%, and there's really no one else doing this in the health care space. So, we have this wide open community to kind of run and chase this incredibly hard to scale business. You just kinda gotta go, it's a two of marketplace.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:44:27]:
So to get customers, you need panelists, but but you need them in a specific condition. And it's not just diabetes. It's like pre diabetes, type 1 diabetes, type 2 diabetes, caregivers of children with diabetes. Like, diabetes is actually like 5 verticals and every condition is like that. And so you kind of have to go out and build these 5, 10, 15000 person panels condition by condition by condition. So, we're we're doing that but we're building out the technology that really focuses on automating the end to end research process and making it easy. I mean, that's enough to make us a big successful company. Right? If we can dominate be the destination for real time market research platform for healthcare, then I think we're onto something.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:45:02]:
I do think there's some other lingering opportunities beyond that, Like, the tools that we created to run our own company, to do panel management, I think, are pretty phenomenal and best of breed. So, I think there might end up being some Other plays that are more broad, that are more like traditional SaaS, like SaaS platform versus really what we're building, which is a marketplace. And so I think we're we're just Really being pulled by our customers, right, and pulled by all the stuff we had to do manual to say, like, what do we have to do so that you have a question on Monday, You have an answer on Tuesday Land it can drive your decisions. And The stuff is impactful. We we did a study recently where So, it was a company and they had an accessory of a couple accessories they were working on, and they had been working on these accessories like during the winter, but they had a couple questions about They wanted to put to patients, but not a lot. Right? They might pay like $3,000 to answer them. They're not gonna pay 20, $30000 to answer them. And so The put this on hold for like 6, 7, 8 months.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:45:58]:
And they did this big pricing study. And on the end of the pricing study, they like attached a couple of these questions. That's before they had access to our platform and could do it quickly and easily. And the results came back And they decided to toss an accessory. Land like The is a tech product accessory. Like someone, like an engineering team had been working on this iterating, iterating, iterating. And so like, I I started The think about like, how many hours was that? A 100, 200, 300, 500 hours of time that someone was going Land they kept going because they had no way to know if it was going to be wanted or not. And so, deep down inside, like I really believe that if patients and companies can work together to create the next generation of care, it will be more responsive to patients And those companies will be agile.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:46:44]:
They'll do it faster with less waste. They will deliver a product that is more profitable. Like, this is like one of the great win wins. It's like, You know, if patients like, give me what I want Land companies were like, yes, here's what you want. And, you know, patients are happy. The companies are happy. It's, It just seems like a good way to do things. And so I really feel good about our ability to be part of making that happen.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:47:06]:
That's the bulk of it. And the other part of it is I love our team. I love like when I brought Ryan on the word and he would say this whenever we're interviewing people, Like, the first thing David said is I wanna be the best place to work. He's like, I want to have high revenue so we can have high revenue per employees. We can have amazing best benefits. I want people to grow. I want to take care of their families. I want them to buy a house.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:47:24]:
I want to send their kids to college. Like, I want them to have great retirements. Like, I want people Land I want them to like, love of to work. He's looking at me Cleveland he's like, I was thinking The guy smoking. He's like, that's crazy. Like, The like later he's like thinking I was like, is that because he was working at Deloitte, right? Big consulting firm like The, it's like, Lay, why don't we like roll you into this cigarette and smoke you down to a Stern? And then you're either a partner or, you know, you go work somewhere else and, you know, take advantage of, you know, mental health services to recover. But it's real. I think if you take care of people, Openness, transparency, trust, really know what people want, like, we're so big on our our culture.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:48:02]:
And to me, that's like the 2 things, like, when When you're building a company, you're building a set of repeatable processes, like you're you're The can output like you, whatever your product is, it can create money, it can create growth, it can create success. And so the heart of that is, right, it's the people and it's the culture Land then it's the process those people Land culture are following and maybe the vision, like you're going in the right direction. And so I've become obsessed with our culture, obsessed with our team, and obsessed with really listening. Like, I can't build this on my back. The, the other things I built in my life, I've tried to build on my back and it's, right, time is still has work, but like, I realize all the things that I could have done that I didn't do. Like, I see that in hindsight, like all those opportunities Land I don't wanna do that again. I need like Twenty people smarter than me that are waking up every day and thinking, all right, how are we going to take care of our family? How are we going to take care of this product? Like, how are we going to make the future? So that's what we're doing. That's what I see.

Jeffrey Stern [00:48:57]:
It's that exercise in humility. No, it's very clear that you love your team. It's awesome.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:49:04]:
It's, it's fun. It's fun. I don't know. I just I didn't know idea how to lead or be a leader. I like Land so I married this woman, Carrie, who is like a EQ genius. Apparently my family, our EQs, like just barely over the functional line, but her family is all like EQ savants. And so, like, just listening to her, I hear how she has difficult conversations, hear how she engages people. And so The last 4 years of this, like, being at the foot of someone who's good at people, like honesty, transparency, being really forthright, The, like, compassionate candor right now, not like an offensive honesty, but one that cares for the other person.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:49:40]:
Like, I've really tried to embody that Land it's been transformative.

Jeffrey Stern [00:49:45]:
That's quite a journey that that you've been on. I'll tie it back to to Cleveland here as we as we work to to wrap up. You know, one of the The things really outside the context of entrepreneurship and and startups that that we're trying to do here is paint a collective collage of Not necessarily people's favorite things in Cleveland, but of things that other people may not know about in the spirit of having, You know, other people already figured The stuff out, so you don't have to figure it out yourself. Love it. You know, what are, what are some of your hidden gems here in Cleveland?

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:50:18]:
Hidden gems in Cleveland. Definitely, like the outdoors here are the best. So, if the Buckeye Trail in Cuyahoga Valley National Park, Going to JAIT, the JAIT Trailhead, and you can go south to Blue Hen Falls or north towards Bedford Reservation. It's quiet, not super trafficked. It's stunningly beautiful. It's Cleveland's not that hilly. It's like hilly and winding and year round gorgeous. So, that's my number The favorite gem.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:50:50]:
Number 2, I don't even know if it's still open, but I think Ginkgo's and sushi. Yeah. And, I think the chef's tasting there is one of the most phenomenal meals. Ryan lived in Asia for awhile, but I brought him here when I wanted to convince him to join the team, him and his partner, and, and took him there. And, you know, we had this world class meal and And he's like, I cannot like, he must have said a 100. I can't believe Land Cleveland. How can this be in Cleveland? Like, this is like like Asia, like top of the line, like, kind of experience. So, Definitely Ginkgo's if you like sushi.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:51:21]:
After that, I don't know. There's so many good little food Lay. I live in Land Shaker by Horseshoe Lake. So, for me, it's On the The Bakery. I go there 5 days a week.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:29]:
The best.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:51:30]:
Or GT's for a, a My Romance cocktail, not My Romance, whatever the one, ask for the drink with the walnut bitters, whatever the bourbon, walnut burgers drink is. That's love that thing.

Jeffrey Stern [00:51:42]:
Yeah. The the pleasant surprise of people in Cleveland is my favorite when they come. It's like what we're here.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:51:49]:
Well, our reputation could not be our Lay caught on fire, you know, Major League movie. Like The is like what people know of Cleveland. It's We're back. The roaring twenties. We're ready to be out party, have a good time. Maybe take care of each other.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:04]:
Doctor. Well, David, I really appreciate, you know, you coming on Land, and really going in deep on the story and the journey that you've taken building Drivable and The community with Diabetes Daily is really, it's really incredible. So, thank you.

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:52:17]:
Thank you. Thanks for having me Land thanks for shining a light on, all the People doing cool things here. It's really, really nice to get a sense of what people are creating.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. If if folks have anything that they would like To follow-up with you about where is the best place for them to reach you?

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:52:34]:
Davidthriva The. App email. I can't feel like it out of my email. I'm like, in a The, but I will accept email for fans. I will accept complaints.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:42]:
To our to our dozens of listeners here,

David Edelman (Thrivable) [00:52:44]:
about to get inundated. Maybe one day I'll get more to Twitter, but I'm I'm kind of off social media. Alright. Thank you, David. Appreciate it.

Jeffrey Stern [00:52:56]:
That's all for this week. Thank you for listening. We'd love to hear your thoughts on today's show. So if you have any feedback, please send over an email to jeffrey at Lay of the land dot f m or find us on Twitter at Lay of the land or at Sternjefe, j e f e. If you or someone you know would make Good guest for our show. Please reach out as well and let us know. And if you enjoy the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or on your preferred podcast player. Your support goes a long way to help us spread the word and continue to bring the Cleveland founders and builders we love having on the show.