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The Psychedelic Psychologist is a conversational-style podcast hosted by Dr. Ryan Westrum with clients and guests who use talk therapy to integrate Psychedelic experiences for healing and personal transformation. Tune in to hear people’s experiences, breakthroughs and stories of healing addiction, depression, and trauma through Psychedelics. Dr. Ryan Westrum gracefully and empathetically narrates real therapy sessions with people in their most vulnerable and transformational moments.
I would
like to invite you to take a moment,
a moment within this minute, a moment
within this minute, within this day,
where you take time to question,
breathing in and breathing out, allowing
today, allowing this present moment to be
a question, to be an invitation, and to be
an opportunity to expand one's awareness,
breathing in and breathing out,
formulating thought, allowing
the body, allowing the heart.
and allowing the spirit to
be alive with questions.
Breathing in and breathing out,
what questions start to arise?
Allowing the ego to be soft and curious.
Allowing the body to be alive and alert.
Breathing in and breathing out.
Witnessing this wonderful,
magical opportunity to be full of
questions, be full of curiosity
and be full of being the ancient student,
taking one breath in and one breath
out, allowing yourself to ground,
allowing yourself to wonder and
allowing yourself to simply be curious.
As, as you embark on the rest of your day,
spark curiosity, wonder and questioning.
Hi, it's Ryan.
Welcome to your weekly dose of the
psychedelic psychologist, where I
invite my guests to share stories
about their psychedelic experiences.
We cover a variety of topics
from overcoming addiction and
severe depression to finding
wholeness and spiritual emergence.
Today I'm humbled, bow greatly to a
long, long relationship and a wonderful
spiritual, wonderful spiritual person.
Well, today we're going to play,
we're going to play with questioning.
There's a lot of questions.
We talked a lot about
psychedelic questions.
Yes.
What's the psychedelic questions
that's alive in you right now?
I'm questioning the
negative and the positive.
Where
I want to understand somebody
with a compassion, with heart,
to loving life, helping people.
And then I want to understand
somebody who's just takes and is,
just wants to take from you.
And I just want to try to
understand that a little bit more.
Yeah, that intentionality of what their
motivations are, where that comes from.
Especially.
On the precipice of having a large
experience you just recently had is
this idea of how can someone walk
with so much vengeance and so much
disdain for others or anger or greed?
Yeah.
What is your thoughts around that?
What, what are you recognizing
by asking that question?
What's alive in you?
I just, I see that I see that
it can no longer.
I understand and I see where
they're at to a point where I
don't want to be around it anymore.
I don't have to step my put my toes
into, you know what their experiences
are and what their chaos is I just,
I understand and I see it now.
And you know, I,
as a person that cares and loves for
people so much I just always fall into
the trap of just trying to give and
help and you know, but I always come out
pretty heavy too and I just feel there's.
They didn't care.
And I'm like,
yeah, I've learned that I just got
to let them be and continue my path.
So that's, what is the sacrament?
What does the mushroom tell you
when you are confronted with
anger or greed or selfishness?
What is the mushroom saying to you that
you could turn towards or turn away?
He's got to let it go.
Yeah, there's a releasing of
their story isn't our story.
Yeah, say that say more about that.
Their story isn't your story.
Their story is not my story too.
I can see their, their story.
Their trauma, I can understand and see
where they're coming from, from my trauma,
but I choose not to play in it anymore.
Yeah, and one of the things I love
about what you just said is this
idea that you're accountable for
your own trauma or your own actions.
And we spoke a little bit.
Earlier that our younger self
didn't know any different.
We might've been angry too, or we
might've been behaving in accordance
to not peace and love, but it was
for some purpose at some level.
What came up in my session, session
recently was, I didn't realize I had my
younger self put in the corner where it
came up and you know, a lot of healing
came up and a lot of awareness where
I didn't realize that I, Bottled up
throughout the years and throughout
that session it was more, you know,
questions popped up like, I didn't
know better where now I know better
to just let it go and let it release.
And that was okay.
And, you know, knowing that I had
such darkness where I, I needed
that in a way to protect myself,
but without getting lost in it with.
I used it in a way of protecting myself
and not hurting other people in a way.
And, and, and, and I, I carried that,
but I didn't realize I put it in a
corner for so long and it came up.
So I needed that today.
So, yeah.
And by needing that, you acknowledge
that you released the, that behavior
that it's not serving you anymore.
Nope.
And how do you carry that younger self?
Without abandoning them.
I give thanks to it.
I'm very humbled and a lot of
gratitude where, you know, I'm glad
it came up and I feel a lot lighter,
a lot more peace and a lot more.
I have a lot more awareness now
to life and myself and for others
with more compassion, let's say.
So.
And yet one of the things that I love
about you is you have head of the Buddha
on one side and a rageful on the other.
Can you explain how you relate to that?
So yeah, I have that hanging in my mirror
everywhere when I drive, it's in my car.
So I look at that daily.
It's a reminder where, you know, I
learned balance with you know, you have
the Buddha happy side where you could
be happy, but then you need the anger
side to really set your boundaries.
So it's kind of a reminder for me to just
kind of bring myself back into who I am.
And and is it anger though?
Or is it just boundaries?
Is that boundaries?
Yeah, yeah, not not anger, anger,
but you kind of just find that
balance of like, that's where that.
Yeah.
Other face comes into
play like almost warrior.
I imagine.
Yeah.
Yeah Thank you.
What are you acknowledging
about your healing journey?
I know you and I have known
each other for a decade now.
What would you tell someone that
is confronted with their traumas
and how, how do, what are you
learning about within this decade?
So I would just trust with where you're
at and who you're with and just trust it
and allow it to just be, you know, that's
just trust it knowing that you're okay.
You know, I, my, my first session was.
A little scary.
My mind was chaotic, but I, my intuition
was just saying, Hey, you're good.
Just go, go with it.
You're, you're, you trust it.
And then I let my guard down.
I set my ego to the side and trusted it.
And then I'm here now.
So I just listened to my intuition.
Yeah.
Listening to your intuition.
And you said something magically
is, how does one, or how
do you, Let your ego down.
When you're on the verge of doing
a session or a ceremony, what,
what's kind of the things you do or
tell yourself to trust the process?
Let the ego go.
Love.
Love is my, my force that I really,
the, the best way I could put it is
I tell myself, I haven't talked to
myself like this in probably like two
years ago, but I don't need it now.
But God has me here for a reason,
the higher source, and, you know, I'm
here going through whatever this is,
and I just, you know, trust with what
this is, and I just, alright, I'm
here, might as well just get through
it, and just allow it, and just get
through the, cut through it, just go.
So, so that's.
But now it's to a point where
I built a relationship with it
where I just know it's okay.
And it being the sacrament,
it being the mushroom.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so let's spend some
time honoring that.
What, what do you do
to honor the mushroom?
How do you come in respecting it?
I don't question it too much.
I just, to a point where I know that
there's a lot of wisdom with it where I
don't get lost in it, but I know that.
It's good.
I just look at it and I, you
know, trust, I just trust.
I don't, I just, I'm here, take
it, trust with where I'm at and
then leads me on my journey.
So, I kind of just live in the now.
I don't I challenged my, or I
trained myself to not get lost
in a lot of things in life.
I just trust now.
Right.
And that's a practice.
And especially within psychedelics
and life is like not chasing the
dragon or not looking forward too far
and not living too far in the back.
How do you trust in the now?
Well, my intuition, I've always had
that since I was a kid for some reason.
And I just trusted that my, as a kid
my, my parents left me and my siblings.
Thanks.
On our own where we're outside locked
in rooms, didn't have food or anything.
So we had to figure it out.
So I've learned at such a young age
to just kind of trust that I, you
know, I was getting taken care of.
So I, that's where I built that
mindset where it kind of prepped
me for just life on a bigger
perspective to be honest with you.
And you know, I'm kind of glad I
wasn't like, like, Like a Hoover it
over like, yeah, because they taught
me to, to, to, to be on my own and to
be able to be open to just life and
be open to just the medicine itself.
Because you know, I just, I'm glad and I'm
grateful that my life was the way it was.
So it just prepped me for this.
What's the emotion coming up right
now as you reflect on that younger
self gratitude and grateful.
I'm, I'm, it makes me happy because.
It's just, I know it's fucked up, living
a fucked up life, but like, you learn,
you learn to just like, figure it out
on your own, and then once you have
that, you can be, you know, like, you
got it all, you just gotta learn how to
use the tools right to figure it out.
What would you say to them?
If you had the right to say from
your higher source today, what
would you tell that person that
younger self just keep going You
got this just trust trust yourself.
Just trust you And that's not easy
to say and I admire you because
i'm looking at you and I know your
story and i've been with you For a
decade and so for you and anyone That
doesn't believe that they can do it.
You are the pinnacle of trusting in your
spiritual self trusting in your fucking
intuition You And also not going too
fast, too hard, but coming, you, you
often go back to those sources, be it
families, be it friends, be it siblings.
And what are you giving as hope
to them and what are you doing
with boundaries with them?
I've I did fall into traps,
but then I pulled myself out.
With helping the family, but I've
learned quick when I was able to see
my trauma and what my old lifestyle was
to a point where, you know I was able
to set better boundaries for myself
to be able to, to live at more at
peace for myself to at the same time.
And I've learned from it.
It feels good to, to not fall back
into that, that, that swoop, but
to be able to just step into the.
better version of who I am,
let's say, as I'm learning
with the psychedelic medicine.
So, and you do that in full embodiment.
You both try on how you show up in
the world, how you spiritually show
up, how you show up for people.
And yet now what I'm hearing from
you is you're acknowledging when it's
too much of someone's taking from you
or being greedy, selfish, or angry.
What, what comes alive
in you to know that?
So what I learned about all A week ago.
Yeah, I've learned the word integrity, so
integrity I didn't understand it I just
knew the word but now that I know the
word integrity that now that I've been
my old self or, yeah, my old self was.
I'm always looking for people to just
have a good relationship with, and
I'll just kind of fall back into their
stuff where it kind of overwhelmed
me to a point where you know, I've
learned to not get swooped up into that.
So I learned the word integrity.
Yeah.
So integrity.
Now I'm, I hold that,
that word very close.
Yeah, the idea of how people show up and
their walk is their walk, their talk is
their talk, their truth is their truth.
And you're capable of seeing, in
a way I'm hearing you say, a full
body listening to their integrity.
Are they being in full alignment
to self and do you feel right
to be a part of that or not?
Yep, so I'm, I learned that, and I
carry that, and I value that a lot
more, and you know, I'm just, yeah.
What's it like to be an ancient
student of the mushrooms?
I know myself included, I'm
deeply devoted to being the
ancient student of the mushroom.
What's it like to be the student?
Very humbled, very humbled.
You know, there's a lot to learn, a lot
of A lot of healing, a lot of, a lot of
wisdom out there, you know, like crazy to
say I was going through my session and I
was going through my own healing, but I
was on a higher perspective where I was
questioning what the, the the deities.
Yeah.
Yep.
And I just wanted to know
that a little bit more.
And, , I was wanting to explore that,
but I was still in the healing of my.
My stuff that I had tucked in the corner.
Well, there's biographical stuff, right?
And so I often will say and this
is really wonderful wisdom, right?
we can Bypass spiritually our life and
we could go look for the deities where we
could go look to find god or the divine
architect Or the sacred geometry, but if
we're not in the trenches doing our work
here in this body What's going to happen?
You're not gonna understand, right?
Or heal oneself in order to be connected.
Oh, fully.
With spirituality, oftentimes we'll
call it a spiritual bypass, like
if we're not willing to look at
our shadow or our trauma, gotta
understand where we come from in our
root and yeah, say more about that.
So basically planting the tree, right?
And I'm in the roots of getting,
, learning my roots as I'm growing and
I have to heal and get past all my
stuff to understand where I come from.
Yeah.
To go back to source, the
source, to a point where I can
explore what else is out there.
Yeah.
I think in a way, and you're
saying it very beautifully, I
think we're cleansing our spirit.
Through doing these experiences
in preparation for the transition.
Yes.
And yet we'll get a glimpse of the
transition within these experiences.
But that can be very alluring, right?
To be next to Ganesh or Hanuma
or God or any one of the
deities that one is devoted to.
And then all of a sudden we're
like, Oh, still kicking rocks
down here and not facing our shit.
Or what I often say to myself is
I'm not, , looking at myself because
I'm so like, head in the sky.
And I'm learning that I have my roots
that I have to work through and knowing
that I can't, I work through my stuff
to be able to learn and see, you know,
what's out there and not look at other
people's stuff where it will pull me down.
Yeah, it's quick to judge, right?
Or quick to go, oh, look at
them without looking at me.
Really, really, it's about
turning the mirror on oneself.
That's what I love about the mushroom.
And sometimes it's not easy.
What are you doing to be gentle
with yourself on, you know, just
having finished recently a journey,
what will you do to walk gently
and how will you integrate this?
Drink a lot of water get some good food.
The simple things, the beautiful,
complex, simple things, food and water.
Eat good.
Drink good.
Yeah.
What else?
And then go for a walk.
I like to walk and I really
like to integrate my experience.
What I'm trying to challenge myself
is to journal a little bit more on it.
Usually I like to hold my stuff to
myself and just kind of integrate
it within myself and through music
to through just my experience
of walking and all the things.
So I'll challenge myself to
write a little bit more and Yeah.
I appreciate that.
I'm humbled by you.
Thank you so much for being in my life.
Thank you.
10 years.