Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

How to communicate for deeper connection—and greater happiness.

Happiness isn’t just a feeling—it’s something you can actively shape through how you think, connect, and communicate.

Sonja Lyubomirsky, a distinguished professor of psychology at the University of California, Riverside and co-author of How to Feel Loved: The Five Mindsets That Get You More of What Matters Most, defines happiness as two key components: “being happy in your life and being happy with your life.” And while many people separate happiness from meaning or purpose, she explains that “they almost always go together.” Her research shows how the small habits we practice—like gratitude—can have a powerful effect, helping to “neutralize negative emotions” and shift how we see our lives. 

In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Lyubomirsky and host Matt Abrahams explore the science of wellbeing and the habits that help us feel more fulfilled. From gratitude practices to breaking free from the comparison trap, they share practical strategies for boosting happiness and explain why connection isn’t just about being loved, but truly “feeling loved.”

Episode Reference Links:
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Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (04:26) - Defining Happiness
  • (06:38) - Gratitude in Practice
  • (07:21) - Acting Extroverted
  • (09:18) - The Comparison Trap
  • (11:16) - Reflection vs. Rumination
  • (12:03) - Best Self Exercise
  • (13:27) - Building Positive Psychology
  • (14:52) - Happiness Drives Success
  • (16:20) - Relationships as a Seesaw
  • (18:40) - Being Known vs. Impressive
  • (22:00) - The Final Three Questions
  • (26:33) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Sonja Lyubomirsky
Distinguished Professor of Psychology | Happiness Scientist | Author

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: One of the best
ways to improve your sense of

wellbeing is through connection.

My name is Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast.

Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I am excited to speak
with Sonja Lyubomirsky.

Sonja is a distinguished professor
of psychology at the University

of California, Riverside.

She's received many awards and
accolades for her teaching and research.

She's author of the bestselling, The
How of Happiness and Myths of Happiness.

Her latest book is How to
Feel Loved with Harry Reis.

Sonja, it is lovely to be here with you.

When I was an undergrad here at
Stanford, you were a grad student

and you were so kind to help me
with statistics, which back then

and still to this day, challenge me.

So thank you not only for being
here, but thank you for helping

the Matt of several decades ago to
get outta this place and graduate.

Sonja Lyubomirsky: So sweet of you to
say, it is a pleasure to see you again.

Matt Abrahams: Yes.

Great.

Shall we get started?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Yes, absolutely.

Matt Abrahams: Your work is
always been fascinating to me.

It's always been fun to
watch what you have done.

You study happiness and wellbeing.

Can you define your working definition
of happiness and how do you distinguish

it from purpose and meaning?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Great
question to start with.

I define happiness the way that
researchers define happiness, which

is that it really has two components
and the first component is the

experience of positive emotions.

So happy people often experience
joy, serenity, curiosity, pride,

affection, not all the time, of course.

And the second component is feeling like
your life is good, that you're progressing

towards your life goals at a good pace.

You're satisfied with your life.

I like to think about these two
components as being happy in your

life and being happy with your life.

You really kind of need both, and it
terms of meaning and purpose, it's

very highly correlated with happiness.

People make a big deal about
this distinction, but they

almost always go together, right?

It feels good to have meaning and purpose.

And the second component of happiness,
which is this life satisfaction

component, is even more highly correlated.

So when I'm satisfied with my life
is when I have meaning and purpose.

Matt Abrahams: I really like this notion
of happiness being with and in, and that's

helpful because it distinguishes different
target areas where we can work on that.

And we'll talk about several ways
that your work has shown that

we can work on both of those.

You are really well known for your
work on gratitude interventions.

In fact, I every night
practice one of them.

I have a gratitude journal.

Can you talk to us about the
value of gratitude and its impact

on wellbeing and happiness?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Well, my lab pioneered
what we call happiness interventions,

where we experimentally test things
like gratitude practices, back in 1998.

And so basically gratitude interventions
are like clinical trials, but instead

of testing a new vitamin or a vaccine,
we're testing a gratitude practice.

So basically we, and now many others,
have shown that if you express

gratitude different ways, it could be
a journal, it could be a reflection.

I mean, it could even be a painting
depending on your talents and skills and

values, people feel more connected, people
feel happier after expressing ratitude.

And you can imagine that it's
like a reframing of your life.

It leads you to think more positively.

Also, gratitude neutralizes
negative emotions, right?

It's hard to feel grateful and envious, or
grateful and resentful at the same time.

Matt Abrahams: I'd be curious if there's
one particular intervention you practice.

I will share that every
night I do some journaling.

I've talked about that before, and
I'll write down what went well,

what didn't go well in the day,
especially around communication.

And if there was a negative interaction,
I will always make sure to follow

it up with some gratitude for the
day or for some experience, and it

really does help me feel better.

Is there a practice
you put into your life?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Yes, absolutely.

Some of it is in the morning,
'cause I find myself feeling

anxious a little bit when I wake up.

And some of it is just talking to others.

And so like I had a hard day
the other day and I said to a

friend, we're so lucky, right?

So that's my gratitude practice
is like reminding myself, oh

my God, yes, this and this is
happening and it's hard or it's bad.

But really in the big scheme
of things, we're so lucky.

Matt Abrahams: I like that idea of
recognizing that we are fortunate

and saying that internally helps.

You published a fascinating study
suggesting that when people are

instructed to act extroverted,
even if they're introverted, they

experience a boost in their wellbeing.

For our listeners, many of
whom are introverted and get

nervous in communication, how
can they take this approach?

Can you walk us through this?

How does acting extroverted
actually help you feel better?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: This finding
surprised even us, this study was

over the course of just one week.

Now we let our participants define
what they meant by extroverted, right?

So if you're an introvert and we say, can
you try to be more extroverted this week?

It doesn't mean you have to
be the life of the party.

It doesn't mean you have to
go to any parties actually.

And you know, I used to be actually
very shy and in college I would force

myself to say at least one thing in
every section just to force myself

to be a little bit more extroverted.

And we thought that the introverts
would sort of get exhausted.

You know, the Susan Cain idea
that introverts are exhausted

by social interaction.

And they didn't, maybe again, because we
allowed them to do what they wanted or

maybe because it was just for one week.

And I actually wanted to add something.

Someone that you also knew back from when
you're an undergrad, Steve Cole and I,

and one of my graduate students, Ramona
Martinez, just this week published a paper

where we followed almost this exact study.

We asked people to act extroverted,
but we also measured their blood.

So we took blood spots from them
before and after, and this is very

cool, like really hot off the presses.

And we found that people who acted
extroverted, not only did they

become happier and more connected,
but they were less lonely.

But they showed changes in their
RNA gene expression associated

with a stronger immune profile.

So acting more extroverted actually
maybe somehow got under the skin

to boost their immune systems.

Matt Abrahams: Wow.

The part that I think is really, I mean,
there are many things interesting in

here, but you let people define their
view of extroversion, so it's not like

you have to speak up and you have to
move around and meet lots of people.

Whatever you see is enough, and it
gives permission, I guess, to do that.

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Small steps, right?

Matt Abrahams: Exactly.

A major source of speaking anxiety,
which I have spent a lot of my career

studying, is what I call the comparison
trap, comparing our internal states to

somebody else's external confidence.

You've written extensively on
how social comparison is what

you call the thief of happiness.

What's going on in that and how
can we reframe it so we aren't

stealing from our own happiness?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: A couple
of coincidences here.

First of all, my own dissertation at
Stanford was also about social comparison

and happiness, and I found that people
who are happy are basically, it's not

that they didn't compare, 'cause we
can't help but see that person as more

beautiful, that person makes more money.

They just didn't care as much about it.

The other minor coincidence is I have
a newsletter, and literally yesterday

my newsletter was called The Comparison
Trap: How to Stop Sabotaging Your

Happiness because it's everywhere.

And especially with social media where
now like everyone's lives are up there

for us to compare against every day.

And so there's lots of advice
about how not to compare.

You know, there's, you can meditate,
you can try to distract yourself.

I like connection as
opposed to comparison.

If you see someone and you feel
envious, send them or someone

else a note of connection instead.

Matt Abrahams: Oh, that's
really interesting.

So when you feel inadequate or not
living up to, reach out instead of

become internal, which is really
interesting and counterintuitive for sure.

I think also what I have found helpful
in the work I do and in my own life

is, it's very easy to see other people
this way, but if you take a moment

to reflect on times in your life
where you've actually had success

in that domain, that can help too.

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Absolutely.

So gratitude or celebrating
yourself, capitalizing.

I often think that self-absorption is
really one of the most toxic things.

You know, sometimes you have
to think about yourself.

The Dalai Lama, actually, I had the
fortune of visiting His Holiness in India,

and one of the quotes that stayed with
me, this was about two years ago, year and

a half ago, he, he says something like,
self-absorption is the door to all misery.

Matt Abrahams: Oh wow.

Absolutely.

I think you would agree, I'd love
to hear, reflection is important.

I mean, we improve, we
grow through reflection.

So I'm putting you on the spot, but
do you have ideas about how we can

reflect without becoming self-absorbed?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: First of all,
again, moderation in everything.

There is actually some research on,
I think it was called something like

self-focused versus self-reflection.

So there's a, kind of an
intellectual reflection.

It's the kind of thing that
philosophers talk about, know

thyself, which has benefits.

And it's the other kind, and I used to
study rumination with Susan Nolen-Hoeksema

at Stanford, and that's the kind of
quote, bad kind of harmful kind of

reflection where you're just going in
circles, it's like going from A to B

back to A back to B. You're not solving
problems, you're not getting insights.

You're just going around and
around, and that's not helpful.

Matt Abrahams: So I think it's
that intellectual piece where you

go in with some specific curiosity
and a specific goal, so you have

an off ramp to that cycling.

One of your most famous interventions is
the best possible self writing exercise.

Can you describe this and I'll give
you imaginary extra credit points if

in your description you talk about
a communication related example.

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Ha ha,
you're a teacher at heart.

We sort of borrowed or stole this from
a colleague named Laura King, and this

idea is it's basically an optimistic
thinking intervention where you

imagine your best possible future self.

So imagine in 1 year, in 5 years, with
undergraduates, we usually use 10 years.

You think in 10 years all
your dreams have come true.

Your goals have been achieved, and you
visualize that and you write about it.

But you don't just write
about the achievement.

You write how to get there.

And often students have told me that
they've realized that, sometimes

they'll say, I didn't even know what
my goals were until I wrote it down.

A lot of people's goals are about
extroversion or about speaking in

public or just speaking up, maybe even
in conflict discussions with their

family, with their romantic partners.

And so they feel like
they're not assertive enough.

And so that is actually one of
the goals that people have built.

People will write about and imagine in
five years, there you are, you're the best

possible self in terms of this domain.

And again, people say it helps them
realize their goals and helps them

realize that they're achievable, right?

That when they break them up into baby
steps, they realize they can take the

first step and then the second step.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

It makes it clear and it gives
you permission to explore, think,

and actually then operationalize.

It's a really powerful exercise.

Before we get to talk about
your new book, which is awesome.

You are part of a group of people
who've defined, in essence, a niche

in psychology, positive psychology.

Taking a step back, for those people
who listen who want to create a change

and a well established establishment
organization, I mean you among

others, really carved out a niche.

Can you think about what
led to the success of that?

How did you guys take something that, and,
and I don't mean offense, but many people

didn't think was important to study.

Sonja Lyubomirsky: I talked to a
friend who I hadn't seen in like

30 years, who was a student here at
the time, and he said, wow, Sonja,

you are really brave when you're
a grad student studying happiness.

'Cause no one really was studying it.

And I didn't think I was
brave, but I was very anxious.

I was like, why?

What am I doing?

People thought I was crazy.

People thought happiness was unscientific.

It was fuzzy.

And I feel like in other areas of
my life, I've often done things

that really go against the grain,
that people think I'm crazy, not

just in research, in lots of ways.

And maybe I should take
that as a compliment.

When people say, what are you doing?

You're crazy.

Go continue doing that.

You know, it's a good sign.

Do something that like no
one else is thinking about.

Of course, sometimes you can make
mistakes and go the wrong direction,

but yeah, it definitely takes some
courage and I guess resilience and

resources to continue doing that.

Matt Abrahams: You must have great
pride in seeing there's now, not just

in the academic world, but a whole
industry around wellbeing and happiness.

And I don't mean that in a
negative way, although people

are taking advantage of it.

People are getting genuinely helped,
that there are people who are happier

as a result of the work you and
others did to get this out there.

Was there ever a concerted effort
where you and others who do your work

came together and said, we need to
really think about how we position

and communicate this to make progress?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: There was one
time, it was after September 11th.

I remember getting together
with Marty Seligman and Mihaly

Csikszentmihalyi and like some other
people, Barb Fredrickson in the field.

And, and I remember Marty, he was the
co-founder of the field, is positive

psychology, you know, is it important?

Should we keep doing it?

And then finally, and actually it
didn't take long before hit us, like

absolutely, like even more than ever.

In fact, the most common emotion people
reported after 9/11 was gratitude.

I mean, there was also fear and all
kinds of other things, but gratitude

was actually the most commonly reported.

So wellbeing is what helps us
get up and change the world.

'Cause people often think, oh,
people are happier just self-focused.

They're just gonna be selfish.

They're gonna sit on the
couch and do nothing.

But no, the paper that has the
most citations by far in my work,

is a paper that shows that happier
people are more successful.

They're the ones who persevere more,
they're more creative, they have

more energy, they're healthier,
they have better negotiation skills.

They're better leaders,
they're more productive.

And so wellbeing is really important, in
both in the good times and the bad times.

Matt Abrahams: So it sounds like
personal tenacity, resilience, coming

together with like-minded people,
and that's how you create a movement.

That's how you make change.

In your new book, with Harry Reis, you use
the metaphor of relationships as a seesaw.

Can you explain what this is and how
can we foster deeper relationships?

Because your new book is all
about blending relationships

and happiness together.

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Yeah,
we were just talking about

happiness interventions, right?

So I've been doing happiness
interventions for decades, and then

after a while it hit me that almost
all of the interventions that work to

make people happier, the reason they
work is they make people feel more

connected to and loved by others, right?

So when I write a gratitude letter
to my best friend or my mom, it makes

me feel more loved by them, right?

When I do an act of kindness
for a friend or a colleague, it

makes me feel closer to them.

So Harry and I started talking
about how really the key to

happiness is feeling loved.

And it's not just being
loved, it's feeling loved.

And then we decided to write a
book about how to feel more loved,

'cause most people wanna feel more
loved in at least one relationship.

And the seesaw is basically an
approach to relationships or

really an approach to conversations
that helps you feel more loved.

So in a relationship, you can think of
it as a series of conversations, right?

So in your next conversation, how do you
make the other person feel more loved?

And how do you make yourself
feel more loved, and you start

with the other person, actually.

So I actually had this experience
with a family member where I didn't

feel as loved by her as I'd like to,
and I was thinking, what do I do?

And then I realized, I need
to make her feel loved first.

And what you do first is you show genuine
curiosity in her inner life, in her

world, and then try to get her to open
up and then listen when she opens up.

Most of us are not very good listeners.

The idea is that most of us have
walls around us and we don't show

that much of ourselves to each other.

So how do I lift you up a
little bit, by showing genuine

curiosity and really listening.

And you know what, it doesn't
actually happen that often.

You probably know that most people
are not great at that, right?

So I show curiosity in you,
which is hard to fake, right?

And then it gives you the safety and the
motivation to open up a little bit more,

and then you reciprocate, hopefully.

And the idea is that we lift each other
up, 'cause the key to feeling loved

is really knowing the other person and
becoming known by the other person.

Matt Abrahams: Visual metaphors, I
think, are really helpful and I can

see what you're talking about there.

And I love re-envisioning relationships as
conversations that are driven by curiosity

and listening and respect, and allowing
the other person to be who they are.

You said part of it is getting to
know the other person, but also part

of it's getting to know ourselves.

How can we do the self-knowing part?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Self-knowing
is really important too.

And not just self-knowing, but
self-love and self-compassion.

Because if I don't have sort of compassion
for myself and you show me love,

that love is not gonna really get in.

And we don't talk as much about
self-knowing, but it's really

more about showing a little bit
more of ourselves to others.

And one way to think about it
is, imagine like a first date or

the first time you have a meeting
with a professional colleague.

What are we trying to do?

Usually we're trying to
just impress each other.

And that's very human.

That's very normal.

And so let's say I spend the
whole time trying to impress you.

I might succeed in impressing you,
but it's not gonna forge a connection.

It's not gonna make
either of us feel loved.

And what makes us feel loved
is by lowering those walls a

bit and being more vulnerable.

And by vulnerable I don't mean
like trauma dumping and telling

you all my biggest secrets.

You know, you have to pace yourself.

You've probably had this experience
where someone just reveals something,

all of a sudden you're like, whoa.

It's like they break the fourth wall
and it changes the dynamic completely.

And so it's really about me getting to
know you a little bit better and then

you getting to know me a little better.

The walls come down a little bit more.

If you only see the tip of myself,
maybe I'll be admired but not loved.

Matt Abrahams: Oh, that's an interesting
distinction, admired but loved.

The distinction there, I
have to think about that.

But I like this idea of back and
forth, of reciprocity, of gradualness.

All of that makes a lot of sense.

I knew this was gonna be a wonderful
conversation, Sonja, your work is

something that I've admired for a long
time and put into practice in my own life.

As you know, we end all these
conversations with three questions.

One I make up just for you,
and two, I've been asking

everybody, are you up for that?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Yes, absolutely.

Matt Abrahams: I would really like
to get your thoughts on how this all

plays out in a world of social media.

In social media, people are
just creating highlight reels.

They're showing the best of.

It almost seems to work against this
deeper connection you're talking about.

What are your thoughts about how
this fits in or helps or detracts

from what you're talking about?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: So
much to say about that.

It's nuanced, right?

Because of course some people feel
much more connected with social media.

If you have family in a
different country and it's really

wonderful to be so connected.

And I'm not the first person to
say that human beings are wired

for face-to-face social connection.

We're wired for voice.

We actually have a study
showing that voice is what

makes us feel most connected.

And then an even bigger danger,
I think is our AI companions,

because they are the best listeners.

You know, I really feel
like maybe it's okay.

Some of these things can supplement
our connections, you know, as

long as we're grounded in IRL.

Matt Abrahams: I think it comes
back to what you've talked

about before, moderation.

When you go to extremes,
it can be troubling.

Tell me who's a communicator
you admire and why?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Okay,
Esther Perel, I love her.

And it's partly because, well,
first of all, I'm fascinated

by everything she says.

The way she says it, she has a sense of
expertise, but also she surprises me.

So a lot of communicators, you listen
to them a few times and then you hear

the same thing over and over again.

And every time I listen to Esther Perel,
I hear something a little bit different.

I'm like, oh, I hadn't
thought of it that way.

So yeah, she's my role model.

Matt Abrahams: That's great.

She's awesome.

And if people don't know Esther
Perel, they should watch her

TED Talks or listen to her show.

It's great.

Final question, what are the first
three ingredients that go into a

successful communication recipe?

Sonja Lyubomirsky: So I guess one
of them would be what I call an open

heart, which is just positive intent.

I come with good wishes.

I wish you well.

I want you to be happy.

I want this to go well.

That's the positive intent.

So that'd be first ingredient.

And the second is this having
emotional intelligence, so being

attuned to the other person.

So I guess the second
one would be attunement.

It's just very hard to teach attunement.

I guess the third, I was gonna
say listening, but that's really

very similar to attunement.

But truly listen, when you think
about a lot of like secrets to things

going well is just real listening.

True listening to the other person.

Matt Abrahams: I like this
idea of positive intent.

Come with positive intent.

We've done a lot of conversations
with people who are into

improvisation, and they start from
positive intent to the interaction.

I like that a lot.

I like the distinction you made
between attunement and listening.

This notion of attunement is, it's
not just listening to what's said,

but how it's said, how much is said,
your relationship to what's said.

It's tough, but it makes a big difference.

Sonja, it was lovely to reconnect
with you after all these years.

Lots of gratitude for not just
what you shared today, but for

what you did for me in the past.

And thank you for the work you do and
for helping so many people form closer

relationships and feel better and
have more happiness in their lives.

Sonja Lyubomirsky: Thank you so
much, and thank you for having an

impact with all the listeners too.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about happiness and
wellbeing, please listen to our special

miniseries on the topic, including
episodes 179 through 182 with guests

like Arthur Brooks and Laurie Santos.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With thanks to the Podium Podcast Company.

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