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Jessi and Anna discuss the upcoming Paris dates for the Eras Tour, predictions about the rumored addition of a TTPD set, and more. We also do a deeper dive into The Tortured Poets Department track, Clara Bow.
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For more of TSPN, visit our website at www.tspodnetwork.com
Creators & Guests
Host
Anna
Host
Jessi
What is TSPN | Taylor Swift Fan Published Podcast?
We are Jessi & Anna, 2 SwiftTokers who spend our free time down the rabbit holes of Taylor Swift’s art, analyzing lyrics, recognizing patterns, and hunting for Easter eggs. Our main goal is to be informative, insightful, and reflective about Taylor’s art and her impact on pop culture. This is designed to be a fun, stress-free podcast where you can come hang with us weekly as we talk all things Taylor.
This podcast is an independent and unauthorized fan publication. The podcast & its assets are in no way affiliated with or endorsed by the artist or any of the people mentioned or depicted in its content.
Hey, lovers! Welcome to TSPN.
hello.
This is me.
Two weeks after Tortured Poets Department.
Right May 3rd? Two weeks after?
Yeah, yeah. Pretty close to. Yeah.
So if there is a fortnight.
Surprise y'all will know about it
because we are recording this on
Thursday, May 2nd for a release for Friday
So fingers crossed that this episode
is not the only fun thing to drop today.
We'll see. Jesse, any thoughts on that?
I don't my gut is telling me
that she's not going to release
anything else, but, it's Taylor
Allison Swift, so.
Yeah, well and we've had some random merch
drops.
Like,
I think the Capital One shirt dropped.
I think a few hours ago we had the Spotify
hoodie like so if you guys aren't aware
at times, especially with the new albums,
Taylor's partners.
So Capital
One is, business partner, right?
She does, do special promotions with them.
They'll do, like, a special item
you can buy.
You have to be a Capital One, card
holder to get it.
So I've never done it,
but it's also never been anything
that's, like, made me have FOMO.
and then with the Spotify, I don't even
think you have to be a Spotify listener.
But they have, like, their own
little thing that they promote.
And so, just little things.
If you're a big merch collector that, that
are exciting when new albums come out.
But if you missed it, I promise
you'll be okay.
It's not the end of the world.
She could, put out a new release.
Like a new song release like.
A new and.
Yeah. Well, okay.
Here, let's, like, go full clown.
Like we're getting off the agenda right
now, guys.
But I got to say this.
So Jack posted
that series of photos of Taylor
in the studio,
you know, and it's like, carousel.
And one of the photos
was of just the studio, and it said so
it said that the titles of each song
and then the one with the studio
just said Electric Lady.
And I was like, is that a track
that we don't know about yet?
Oh my gosh, I must not.
I must have missed that.
Like I saw the carousel,
but I missed that.
It just said,
I'm gonna have to look at that.
Yeah. It was like
there were like maybe seven photos.
Let me pull it real quick. Actually.
I keep going back to the,
the Midnights manifest
type of thing that she did, like that
little video game
go through the halls
and then you come to TTPD door.
yeah. Yeah.
Sorry, I literally I was listening,
but I wasn't. Yes.
No. Yeah.
Like it goes down to the corridor
and when you get into that room
it comes to like the TTPD timetable
and like
they just show the one day,
which is so weird.
That's a good.
Point because in the Midnights roll out.
So if you guys don't know very similar
kind of scope right where it was
this little animated, you're kind of
first person walking through the room.
We saw a full week of stuff.
Yeah.
So in so that was Midnights an now we're i
Tortured Poets very similar look and feel.
It's almost like you leave
that first room,
you get into that random
empty office right?
And then on the corkboard you had that
same like almost like week of a calendar.
And yeah, we only saw one day.
What the fuck? What's kind of.
Know?
Like it's filled out too,
because if you pause it,
you can see Record Store Day on there.
But they didn't like show it, show it.
So there's got to be more to that
because otherwise why have a timetable.
When you do one?
Because it said the word timetable, isn't
that correct.
Yeah TTPD timetable and I think
and then at the bottom
you have the hashtag marks
like little scratch marks.
And there was like what, 13 or 14 of them.
And people were like,
oh, that's a fortnight after its release.
I don't know, anything could happen.
Yeah.
Well, I did find the Jack post
and I'm I'm losing my mind.
It's that's not what happened.
If you look at it, it says the day
we made down bad number two is fine.
Oh, yeah. Where he just describes
the days.
He just describes the days.
And so I don't know what I was saying.
There could be a clue. In that though.
Somewhere.
Well, in the. Whole idea
of, like, Electric Lady.
Oh, we know that,
Travis says electric all the time.
But now that we have tortured poets
and the fortnight
music video, she is being electrocuted
or electric shock treatment,
maybe that was why Travis was dropping
all the electric clues.
Yeah,
maybe he just like that fucking word.
Because honestly,
it comes out of his mouth a lot.
So yeah, it could just be his word.
Okay. Great.
So let's get back on the agenda. 30s in.
so we've got a lot to cover today.
we're first going to talk a little bit
about the Paris shows,
which are going to be coming up next.
Week.
And maybe some predictions
around. The tour.
And you know, we've got some clues around
like threes.
Well, I got questions for Jessi.
Let's just be that's the agenda
is I got to ask Jessi some shit
because she's been sick this week.
So like I only have gotten
little micro doses of time with Jessi.
So I've been very specific
about what we talk about.
we'll talk a little bit.
About a Billboard article, that mentioned
that Taylor was bigger than the Beatles.
And then we are going to do.
Some lyrical analysis.
We are going to do an analysis
on a tortured poet song.
we did want to do a few more.
We want to maybe knock out 1 to 3
and episode just depending on what else
we have.
But today we definitely have room for one.
And so by the end of the episode,
we're going to do a deep dive
analysis of Clara Bow.
You might be like, well, yeah,
people know what Clara Bow is about.
But guys, it's been two weeks and.
We really
we don't understand a good chunk of this.
Album yet.
So we want to make sure that
when we are doing these lyrical analysis
that we are choosing songs that we truly.
Feel.
Confident in what we've analyzed
and what we're putting out.
So we're not going to like, say one thing
one week and then take it back the next.
And so Clara Bow is one
that is very, very straightforward
and we feel really good about.
So we want to give you our take the lore
and just kind of
some of the nuggets that,
that Jessi and I have picked up from it.
all right.
Well, let's talk about the tour.
So she will be in Paris next week.
Jessi, can you remind me.
What.
There were all these clues about Paris
Do you remember, like, the heels she wore?
Like, what are some of the things
that before tortured poets
and the whole hoopla that we're in today,
we were already kind of eyeing
Oh, there's a fucking song called Paris.
Yes. So.
Okay, so on Midnights,
there's a song called Paris,
and it's one of my favorites
on that album.
I know a lot of you.
It's I feel like it's underrated, but,
it's a really good to me, like Covid song.
I feel like if you really listen
to the lyrics, it's
about like going somewhere
when you're in this bubble.
Now that I'm listening back to everything,
you know, it's kind of could be means
meaning something else or,
I don't know, just go listen to the song.
But she does have a song called Paris.
And then the.
Day before she.
Got time person of the year,
she was out with Gracie Abrams, I believe.
They were. Walking through New York City.
I think they were coming out
of a restaurant
and she had these heels on
and they were collab with Jimmy Choo.
And in the heels one was the Eiffel Tower,
and one was Big Ben from the clock
from London. Yep.
So to me that signifies something we know.
She leaves hints in her clothing.
I mean, you guys have seen how the names
of some of the items
she's worn in the past year have been like
track titles or song lyrics.
This is how she does it.
So the fact that she's wearing a heel
with Paris and a heel with Big Ben
is it's not nothing like it's.
It's definitely something big.
Yeah.
And we had eyes on her in December like.
And she knew that.
Right. It's
not just me and you. The world did.
Because there was rumors that she was
going to drop something like that.
Just if she was leaving
clues, that would have been a perfect time
to do a pap walk
and something that was a clue. Yep.
Yes. And then we had,
I think it was last week.
Taylor posted to her YouTube shorts.
I think it was elsewhere.
I actually think
it might have been on TikTok,
but I definitely saw the YouTube short.
some just really.
Quick clips of tour rehearsal.
And there were clips that we well, we.
SwiftTok in general.
We're coming out and saying, this doesn't
look like something we've seen before.
This looks new.
So what was your take on that? Well.
First of all, she has a white microphone
in these clips
and a couple that she never has used
We've seen it
in the box with all the other microphones,
but we've never seen her use it.
So that's a big clue.
The other one is she's
standing on this railing
and inside the railing
it says TTPD in big white letters.
Where you can see
the second half of it. Right?
You can see the P in the D. But yeah.
Yeah, the P
and the D like how it is just like PD.
and then the
third thing that really stuck out to me.
Was she.
Was practicing in these
like Victorian type of heels, and shoes.
So the almost like the same shoes
she's wearing in the Fortnite music video.
Okay. I didn't even notice.
Yeah, she's got these socks
with like, holes in them.
Like, they're really old,
like from back in the 1920s.
And so she's definitely practicing
like we've seen her practice
in the shoes
that she's wearing during the tour.
And these are definitely shoes
she's never had on before.
And I believe the dancers had like, hats.
I know you say 1920
like maybe they're kind of that old.
They're like rounded at the top
and little canes.
Yeah.
So yeah, maybe like 1920s show
biz Clara Bow themed. Ooh.
I'm like now envisioning it up
because I didn't know.
What if she does add this,
I haven't really thought, to be honest
about the visualization of it as much as
just what songs that she going to choose.
Yeah, it's going to be really cool.
I feel like I, I definitely think
there's going to be a set added.
I don't know where in the set list
she's going to put it.
I don't know if she's
going to cut certain songs.
I don't know.
I could see her cutting some of the songs
she cut out of, like the Eras tour film.
At the beginning. Like Archer, cardigan.
Maybe. I just thinking that too.
I almost wish
that I was seeing that earlier.
with the, the intentionality of which
when she left off.
The film could.
Be the ones that she doesn't move
forward with.
Because in reality, if, you know, if
I haven't been there as her yet, I'm
an international swiftie let's pretend.
And I saw the the film
when it first came out.
Like, obviously
we've gotten the extended versions with,
you know, more releases like through
Disney Plus and whatnot, but like that
film as it was originally released
is the eras tour that she's presented.
So like, yeah,
if I am not going to go back
to being from the perspective of somebody
who's international and hasn't seen
the tour yet, I would expect to probably
show up and see at least that, you know,
like what you saw in the movie.
So that makes a lot of sense.
If that's what she pulls.
Well, and
if you look at our champagne problem
speech and a lot of them, she says,
you know, oh, what are you going to do,
like a 3.5 hour show
if you do an Eras tour
and she's like, yeah.
And she only does three hours
and 15 minutes.
That's a valid point.
I hadn't even thought about that
because it is true.
It's not 3.5 hours.
No. They've been planning this
this whole time, I think.
And they've been
they've known what they were going to do.
And I think that they've well,
I don't know about the whole time
because she wrote a lot of this
and recorded it during the tour.
But I think that how easy would it be to
with the Eras Tour film
and how it is to just insert the TV set?
Yeah,
yeah.
Do you think it will be at the end
or middle.
Like what,
what do you think it as far as the.
Placement.
I don't know,
I don't know where she's going to have it.
That's why we're just going to have to
like watch the whole show on live stream
and just see where she inserts it at,
because I have no idea.
Yeah.
And if you are going to one of the Paris
shows,
she's going to be there
the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th of May.
So if you do have tickets,
leave a comment in our YouTube
or wherever
and let us know what show you're going to.
Oh my gosh.
vicariously like living through.
That and very jealous.
yeah. Super exciting.
any other predictions for coming back.
For the tour?
Coming back? Yeah.
I am really just thinking about, like,
what songs is she going to choose?
I think there's going to be four songs
and I'm, I'm thinking like,
oh, what songs will be?
I know we talked about this last week,
but we weren't as serious, so.
No. Well,
and let me pull because I believe
one of the other creators in our group
sent something today.
Oh, it was K.J..
Actually, K.J.
sent, a let me find real.
Quick
because I.
Thought this was a really great theory.
So I definitely want to credit the person,
and this person
may not have originated it.
So please know that I'm just crediting
where I found it.
Okay, so it's by a creator.
Oh my gosh, it's rolling video.
It's @mollsyvl
but she basically is talking about
how maybe the.
Do you remember during the Apple Music
playlist drop up how the four of the five
were the the poems on the back
of the different vinyl variants?
And then the fifth one was
I Can Do It with a Broken Heart.
What if she adds
five songs to the set list, and those are
the five ones that she chooses,
are the ones that those lyrics are from.
It definitely could be.
That's a.
So the ones I think for sure she would add
is who's afraid?
A little old me,
I can do with a broken heart just because
it's such a bop and it's about her.
And then the third one that I would think
is but daddy.
I love him because that's such a bop too,
And then
I'm just like, off the top of my head.
I don't know if she'll do Fortnite.
I really think that when she does
Fortnite, she's going to have post
come out and do it with her.
Yeah, like as a Surprise Song
Yeah.
Fortnite to me,
it's like it's like a vibe, you know.
But it's not a stadium.
And it's also
and I say that there's plenty of songs
that she sings that you would never
imagine being really great stadium songs.
But I also think, like, Fortnite
is not quite the opposite either.
It's not like it's like almost stadium.
It's not quite perfect.
Oh you know. Yeah.
And the other one
I'm thinking too is thank you aimee
That would be a great like stadium
song to me anyway.
Like people would flip out. Yeah.
Or like the alchemy
maybe that one has some,
some production behind it.
It's definitely,
not as much of a bop is like,
I can do it with a broken heart, but.
it's anthem.
Yeah, it's it's people will sing along.
my thought though, is, is it
going to be the last piece of the tour?
Because you know how she ends
with Midnights?
It's her final era, and we know that
they don't go in order of the eras,
but keeping midnights at the end.
Or is she going to put.
I feel like she will, because I feel like
she's going to end with karma.
But what are your thoughts?
I think she'll stay with karma at the end.
I think she's going to keep midnights
at the end.
the one I just thought of, too, is
the smallest man who ever lived like that.
Bridge is insane in this album.
So I could see her doing
at least part of that song
to get to the bridge
like she does sometimes. but.
I think she'll keep midnights at the end.
I think she'll keep a lover
in the beginning,
but then it's like fair game for like,
where could it go?
Well, could
she makes up more than just that one, too.
Now that you just said fair game.
Oh, man.
Like,
add new songs that we didn't have before.
No, just really rearrange it. Maybe.
Probably not.
Because there's a lot of production behind
the pyrotechnics and all the visuals.
Yeah, I think it's probably just wherever
she can probably insert it the easiest.
I'm interested to see where it's in me,
though.
I'm really excited. And.
And it gives me like new life
to watch the lives.
Not that I wouldn't be excited anyway.
I think surprise songs
always get us excited.
I'm actually interested.
Do you think she'll do the mash ups still?
Which ones?
Oh, on surprise sets. On surprise
Songs, because, like, she was doing them
ahead of tortured poets,
which we thought might be a clue.
I mean, my guess is.
Yes, but what do you think.
Now that they're such a different dynamic?
Because I thought she would just go out,
like, hard on mash ups
now, the rest of this entire tour,
because people are getting
so used to the mash ups.
but now I'm thinking she has so many songs
on torture poets that I could maybe
see her doing an entire tortured poet song
and then a mash up.
Yeah, like mixing what if she mashes up
tortured poets with the songs
that they're meant to be with?
Oh my gosh,
like the ones that she had sampled?
Yeah. Like how, Which one? The windows.
I look through people's windows and. Yes.
Death by a thousand cuts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like those two really go together.
There's the others, too.
And there's probably ones
that we don't recognize yet.
and my thought too,
is the mash ups to me were that multiple
stories can layer into a bigger story.
And I think that's something we touched on
last week, is that we feel that
when you look at any given song, there's
quite a few that I could easily identify.
Different
people are muses with the various verses,
so maybe having multiple stories
blend within one song.
Same thing is a mash up, right?
It's like the same concept.
Yeah. The braiding.
Yeah. Also the chaos really.
I mean, come on.
Yeah, it is this, this.
Album's very chaotic and I love it.
I started watching Britney Spears Chaotic
the other night.
Do you ever watch that?
it was a.
Reality show
she did with Kevin when they were married.
It was like a six episode series on MTV.
I made her back in the day.
Yeah, because it's called chaotic.
You said Taylor said Chaotic a ton,
and I think that a lot of the themes
we'll get into this when we do our lyrical
analysis on this episode about how
there's themes of just fame
and like what the industry does to women.
And then there's a part of But Daddy
I love Him.
That sounds just like every time
from Britney Spears.
and I'm like, maybe, you know?
And they took out
all my teeth in the circus.
She had the circus album or song.
Britney had a whole circus theme.
At some point
I won't, I should save it for TikTok.
I won't get too far down the rabbit hole,
but I've just been starting to speculate.
There may be some Britney ties amongst
all the others, right?
It's not like this is all a dedication
to Britney, but yeah.
I totally can see that
now that you say the circus thing too,
because definitely because it's Britney
is the perfect example right now
of how the system and how the fans
and how her family have failed her,
like everyone's failed her
because she's not what.
She came out with the memoir this year
too, you know, she, is telling her story.
So, you know, it's very timely for,
this to be a theme.
And I do think that even the.
Thank you aimee,
you know, you have F Y C K Me
What what is what is Britney song?
F Y C. I don't know,
I don't listen.
To a lot of Britney, but.
Britney has a song with Amy in it.
It's like, fuck you Amy. Really?
Yeah. It's like, fuck me.
I think she's F U C K me.
F U C. Hold on.
If you think if you think Amy is just.
Like, oh my God.
It's. This song is called. If.
You Seek Amy.
But when she sings it, it's fuck me.
So it's fuck me.
But if You Seek
Amy is the song name,
but I think she spells Amy. Amy.
But like again, another way
that people are tying
back to Britney is like,
oh, the play on the words.
Yeah, I. Never thought about that.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
You're over here trying to figure out
which which muses inspiring the songs.
And I'm like, oh, I'm like.
Let's watch Chaotic.
By Britney Spears and Kevin Federline.
That's so crazy, though.
Wow. Yeah,
yeah, well, we'll let that cook.
And if you guys have any
thoughts on the Britney ties
or if you have any that we aren't
even talking about,
drop them in our YouTube comments.
Because, again,
there's many muses to this album
and I don't think Britney
was left off the list.
Okay. Doesn't sound like it.
No, no,
like I need another person to analyze now.
Yeah,
we'll go watch the Every time music video.
because she's basically
running down the hallways of a hospital
and it it's all white
and it's very tortured poets.
And I mean, it's a fucked up music
video, honestly,
you look at this and you're like,
this came out years ago.
It's so old that it's, square dimension.
The dimension of the YouTube
video is like a square.
It's not even like widescreen,
like 16 by nine, how we film stuff.
So that music video is that fucked up
and that I think it's like 14 years old.
That's crazy.
All right, so, Jessi,
there's been lots of speculation
that Taylor is dropping
clues around threes.
I've kind of seen it variously on TikTok.
I don't know
if you've even fucking been on that.
That land of TikTok.
Have you noticed any of that or what
is your take with any of the threes?
Well, like, I.
Kind of said last week, I've just been
like recovering from tortured poets
and everything that's happened.
So this week is actually the first week
I've started to like, venture into TikTok
and actually like, watch some other videos
because I try, as a theorist on TikTok,
like I said before,
I try not to watch anyone else's videos,
but I feel like I'm so far behind
because I really haven't been doing
any of my own that I need to catch up
and see what's going on.
Yeah, this is a. Group effort for sure.
It definitely is.
There's no way I would have come up with
some of the things I've seen on my
own. So.
the threes.
I mean, we have all the braids
that we've been talking about.
She's still wearing a braid.
Like she was just wearing a braid
in her hair in Las Vegas last weekend.
and then TTPD the way
it is,
it could be like a Roman numeral three.
Yeah, we said that initially.
I'm like,
I don't see it too. I see a three.
But I hope not
because I can't handle anymore.
Songs. From Tortured poets.
I can't, I can't do it.
Press the breaks, press the breaks.
Yeah.
Let's I mean, she has blessed us
with 31 songs, but they are heavy.
So yeah. I don't know. We'll see.
I, I'm not really thinking there's
going to be a third, but I could be wrong.
Yeah.
My thing is,
until Taylor holds up three fingers.
Like I'm like, I need it.
To be very literal.
Just to your point.
I mean,
I don't know how she would take it.
I think it'd be really difficult,
even if she released a third part
that was joyous and, you know, really
looking ahead, it's like we we need time.
We need time to analyze and catch up.
And and I would hate to not let this,
set of songs get their time in the light.
Yes. However,
I do think that she started to hint at TS1
What?
What do you see?
And so I am getting I
did, a lot of TikToks around.
Oh, geez, it was in 2022.
And I want to say it was around
May, June of 22
when she really wasn't doing like a whole
she wasn't out there a whole lot.
This was like the summer that she got her
honorary doctorate and all that.
However,
she was dropping a lot of hints and clues
around the color lavender or like lilac.
Now we. Have.
Now. And she was even doing that
with flowers.
Now, if you look at like. The,
what's the music video?
Oh my God, I'm blanking with the lavender
coming up out of the floor.
Lavender haze.
Oh, lavender is in the song. Okay.
So Lavender Haze
I see the next
album being lavender color
like a lilac lavender.
You also have the shorts
that she's just done.
the YouTube short with.
She's in like a lilac skirt.
She's got like, lilac colored nails.
I think she's already giving us hints
for the esthetic of TS
12, and I feel like it's going to be
some kind of like, floral, lavender lilac
slash lover type deal.
She's back in the lavender haze
with Travis.
Yes, that's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, I've. Never had an album that color.
No, because lover would have had that,
like in the themes of it, right?
It was all pastels, but it was pastel
pink, right?
Is that what the the where we landed
as far as the color goes? Yep.
And when I say we,
I mean Taylor because she uses emojis
and she paints her nails,
the different colors and all of that.
And yeah, and lover
was like a lot of the pastels.
But they were like really bright pastels.
Whereas I think this is going to be
very like muted pastels
and just like calm,
I need a calm album from her.
But but I can definitely see
it being a little bit lighter too.
On the lighter side of it. Not as heavy.
Yeah. Isn't lavender
supposed to make you sleepy?
Like the actual like yeah of it. Yes.
Let's do it.
She's going to put us in a fucking coma
for this summer,
and maybe it won't come up soon, but yeah.
I even thought, like, lavender would be
like a really good album title too.
but she's already used red, so
I don't know if she would do that again.
Well, we'll play that clip back
whenever you are.
Right.
Because you guessed Midnights.
I know you did.
Did you?
Yeah. You guys,
midnight is the name after she was like,
meet me at midnight or whatever.
Meet me at Midnight.
I can't say that without, you know.
Yeah. Doing her.
Yeah. Exactly, exactly.
All right.
And then there was a billboard article
I think you wanted to talk about.
Right. Yes.
So there was an article
that came out today or yesterday
on Billboard
and they were interviewing Def Leppard.
They were interviewing Rick Savage
and Joe Elliott from Def Leppard,
and they asked them about Taylor Swift,
and they proceeded to say
that Taylor Swift was bigger,
could be bigger than the Beatles.
And that's a term that you've, like,
never really heard.
Like no one's ever been bigger
than the Beatles, right?
Well, yeah.
And people on TikTok may be saying it,
but not like people were
who were around and relevant during,
you know, other eras.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm just wondering my question is,
I do think she's bigger than the Beatles
and she has more influence right now.
And I don't know if that's
just because of who she is or if it's
because of the day and age we live it
now, as opposed to back then.
You have instant gratification
like you have streaming, you have TikTok,
you have social media,
all of that which makes her bigger
and bigger and bigger.
but, well. The global scale of it.
All right.
Because to your point, like,
you know, back in the fucking 1950s
or whenever 60s, 70s, like the,
the medium would have
been, you had to purchase a record, right?
And then you'd have a record player
and think about all the ends of the earth,
right?
Like people
would not have had access to your point.
I mean, maybe
they finally got access at some point
whenever it finally shipped to whatever.
I mean, even global trade.
Like, let's think about that.
Like there's just access to information
like there never has been.
And there's also the ability
for her to record, produce
and push out more in any given time
period.
Yeah.
And I kind of my person that I keep
kind of like comparing her to
is Paul McCartney
for which is a band member of the Beatles.
because he is just so in another
realm of just genius, kind of like she is.
And I just don't,
I don't I don't know if it's because of
just why, like, living where
we're living now or if she just did more
or is doing more than the Beatles did.
But she is bigger than the Beatles.
Yeah, it's more than music, too.
And I'm sure the Beatles were.
I can't say that from first person
experience, but I do think she has
very vulnerable lyrics
that cut a chord with many generations.
and it means more to people.
I mean, obviously
you and I are making a fucking podcast,
so we're kind of obsessed.
but it it's it's more than just the bops
and the way
it makes you feel, it's like it's
part of the DNA of a lot of people.
And, it's
the poetry of our lives, right? I'm.
I'm saying that instead of the soundtrack
of our lives, the.
Poetry of our lives.
but. It truly is.
And that's where it's hard to compare.
Especially if you didn't live through
both.
You know.
It is I, I go back to my experience with.
Okay, so I was like,
raised on the Beatles.
My mom was a huge Beatles fan.
I mean, like the minute
the anthology came out,
we were watching the entire,
like 12 tape on VHS series, like my mom's.
They had an anthology.
I don't know, man.
Yeah. Yeah.
and all the albums
and just hearing her stories
about the Beatles growing up
and them on Ed Sullivan,
and the first time she heard,
and the songs she was obsessed with.
And then, just like, so much history was
dumped on me growing up about the Beatles.
and that's probably why
I just love them so much.
I mean, I, I've always
I finally got to see Paul McCartney
for the first time in 2011,
and I was six months
pregnant with my first child, and we went
and saw him at Wrigley Field in Chicago.
And that was.
Definitely like a very meta experience
for me.
Like, it was crazy.
So I don't know, it's just,
it's wild,
like growing up hearing about all this.
So I know how big the Beatles were.
I get the magnitude of it.
I get the scope of it.
Even though I wasn't there.
I was put there by my mom
like she took me back to that.
interesting.
That's why I, when I saw that article, it
just,
I don't know, it
just kind of that's a good topic.
Like that's a good topic.
Like is she
why you and I are such a good partnership.
I'm going to fucking toot our horns.
For our listeners.
We have very different experiences
in music and I think that's like
diversifies our context is,
you know, a lot about like the 1975.
I know a lot about Britney Spears.
You know, like I just it's it's like even
even not just a little bit of an age
difference that we have.
It's it's more just like our own
just interest and experience as well.
Because like my mom,
we listened to like Matchbox 20, Fiona
Apple and Alanis Morissette growing up.
You know, it was just like, she really
likes more of the rougher edge stuff,
and was always up to date with what was
hip hop and happening at the time.
and, you know, so it's just different.
My dad listen to NPR,
we always had fucking talk radio
on, which is so ironic
because now I actually enjoy it. But,
yeah.
Yeah.
And my dad with 90s, country,
90s country fan.
So that's where I got last week
when I was,
comparing to,
But daddy,
I love him to like, 90s country.
I just it's.
Yeah, it's my 90s country.
So I, I grew up in Missouri.
Not it's Missouri.
Or it's. Missouri.
Like, it's kind of depending
on where you're at in the town.
I like to say both,
but I obviously was raised around
country music,
but my parents are not big country fans.
so I like it was a weird mix.
Like, I feel like if I listened to country
a lot of times, it was the big hits.
But. I do.
I started listening to more after you said
that because I'm like, I don't hear it.
But there were. Some.
That were a little less twangy and cliche.
But when I think like 90s, I'm going back
to like when
Tim McGraw released
that song about Indian.
outlaw.
And just completely cancelable
in today's age.
Like, that's the twangy, cliche stuff.
I'm thinking of verses like the Martina
McBride Independence Day type,
you know, vibe.
There's definitely both.
It's so funny
you bring up Tim McGraw because.
He. Was one of the best concerts
I have ever seen.
Like, oh, he's good in concert.
I have been to so many concerts
and I didn't have,
like I've always wanted to see him,
and I had like really high hopes for
or like really? No, not high hopes.
I had like, mediocre hopes for Tim McGraw.
Right? Yeah.
He came out like blew everybody away.
And I've been to a lot of concerts.
And yes, it. Was memorable for sure.
I you know,
I thought that about Rascal Flatts.
We should get the country concert series,
like in the summer.
You would get like lawn seats
at our local venue.
for everyone that was coming.
And it was like a package deal.
And I remember being like,
oh, that Rascal Flatts.
Like, I know some of their songs, like,
obviously.
But they fucking put on a show.
Like, I feel like there were pyrotechnics
Like,
if there weren't, that was the vibe.
They gave off like it was so produced.
And then you get people who are very well
known and I won't name drop anyone
that wasn't as good,
but like just sitting up there
playing their guitar
and like doing an okay job.
But like, there really is a lot to be said
about the production of a concert.
And Taylor obviously does that well.
And crazy.
I mentioned that
because Rascal Flatts is who,
when I saw Taylor for the first time,
she was opening for Rascal Flatts in 2000.
And six. Before debut was dropped.
Crazy. There you go.
Full circle.
Full circle with.
And the Rascal Flatts was one where
I feel like the crowd was young and old.
Obviously they have very,
not controversial music.
So kids and stuff can listen to it.
And I remember everyone in that crowd
knew every word to every song,
and they played all their hits.
You know,
they weren't just doing their most recent.
And I, I think that is a model
that Taylor follows.
I don't know if she's following them,
but just the idea that, like, your concert
doesn't just have to be
the hits of your most recent album,
you need to mix in some of the favorites.
And Taylor's always done that.
Even before the era store,
she would play some of her favorite
or some of the crowd favorites.
At least I'm sure she sang Shake It Off
more times than she cares to in her life.
But, it's always been one.
She's included since she released it.
Well, and if you look at
how Taylor started and what she was raised
on, it was her first
couple tours were country tours,
so she started by learning
from Keith Urban from Rascal Flatts,
Kenny Chesney,
like all those types of people.
And I don't know, it's.
It's it definitely.
You can hear it today still like
you can see the the country influence.
Country concerts are very produced
and their very hit hit hit, you know,
and you can see that in her production.
And I think it's just a lesson that she
has taken with her throughout her career.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And mark my words, cross my heart.
She will come out with another country
album someday.
Oh for sure, for sure.
Well, she'll come out with debut Taylor's
version.
Well, yeah.
But other than that, she'll have
a new country album someday, I swear.
No, I, I completely agree,
I completely agree.
If Beyonce's.
Doing it, Taylor's got to do it. Like.
And I'm glad that,
tortured poets wasn't country.
Not that we speculated that, but this is
the year for Beyoncé to own country music.
That's for fucking sure.
yeah.
Well, great.
Well, is there anything else on.
I have a question for you.
Yeah. What's up?
Okay, so my question is when we a couple
podcasts ago, we talked about how Cowboy
Carter and Beyonce
and you said for sure this has got to be
winning album of the year.
So now that Tortured Poets is out,
have you changed your mind
or are you still thinking
it's going to win?
I still think it's going to win.
I don't know.
The tortured poet is understood by critics
like it is fans like.
I think it will go down as Taylor's
best album as a fan.
And, you know, they both.
Still have to mature over time.
from a political standpoint,
the Grammys, you need to stop fucking
snubbing her for album of the year.
Beyoncé.
That is because she produces
fucking fantastic albums.
In this one.
Has a lot of really, good solid
undertones of messaging and really kind of
making a statement that the tortured poets
departments making a statement too.
Right. They both are.
But I don't.
Know, maybe maybe it's a socialist in me,
but I'm like, share.
The fucking wealth.
Like it's it's
time for Beyonce to get one.
I think. I think so too.
And that like my husband, who
I would consider a really big swiftie, he
he said the other night, he's
like tortured poets isn't for everybody.
It's not for the masses, it's
for the hardcore Swifties.
And I mean, there might be some people
that listen
to tortured poets
that love it, that connect with it, and
I think that people would connect with it.
But it is for the intricate lyricist.
Easter egg.
It's dense, like we said on the last one,
like it's one and it's I think.
Most Swifties will.
Love it and it will go down
as one of her best pieces of work.
But I also think reputation was not loved
in its era
as much as it is
looked reflectively on. So.
Yeah, so I would, I would
put my money towards Beyonce winning.
Okay. If not somebody else.
Oh, probably Beyoncé.
All right. So let's real.
Quick, before we get into
lyrical analysis, we do have the Met Gala
coming up. And Joe, it is confirmed
that she's not going to be there.
Correct I think so, I don't know
if it was like confirmed confirmed by her,
but she's going to be in Paris.
Didn't when we've.
Known that this whole time.
I think we stupid.
Well and last when is. Hold on
hold on one.
No, it's this weekend.
It's May 4th.
Right. And her first show is the ninth.
And I think she's going to be there
practicing.
It didn't.
And there were articles coming out though,
that said, Taylor and Travis
were not attending the Met Gala
because she'll be.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure
I was looking at a punch, I got it.
That would have been such a great place
for them to debut as a couple, though.
Right?
With their style, choices and stuff.
And like. This one.
Okay, I just need I just need Google
when I Google something,
I just need the fucking answer.
Like, I don't need to read an article
with all his backstory.
E! online.
You'll have to wait longer than
a fortnight for Taylor Swift's return.
The fundraiser did it.
It it, Will take place on May 6th,
just three days before
Taylor is scheduled to hit the stage
in Paris.
as her boyfriend.
As for her boyfriend, Travis Kelce,
it's likely he'll be sitting out as well.
TMZ reporting that the Kansas City
Chiefs tight end has RSVP'd
no on his invitation.
Okay, so that's like that's like.
It's.
It's likely he's not going to attend.
Well, if he RSVP.
No then yeah.
No he's not going. Without her either.
Yeah. No he's definitely not.
He's definitely not.
I'd love to see Jason Kelce
at the Met Gala.
That would be the most entertaining shit.
And like. The luchador mask.
With his shirt off.
yeah.
Like gardenias, his chest hair,
whatever the theme is, isn't it?
Like a. Nightly garden or some. Shit?
A couple.
updates, though, on Travis and Jason,
if anybody cares.
Jason is going to be broadcasting
on Monday Night
Football, the pregame show.
so he did sign a contract for that.
Travis just signed a new contract
for two more years at Kansas.
Kansas City.
So good for you. Because you're Kansas Cit
Well, I'm in Kansas City for now, too,
I guess so, yeah. Yeah.
Well, I bought the, the jersey
for my husband like last year or whatever.
And those.
Those fucking. Things are expensive.
Like, they are, so, like,
you don't need to buy more than one.
So, like, if, if Kelce were to leave,
I guess the jersey could still be worn.
It's not like, you know, but you always
hate whenever the jersey that you. Own.
The player no longer plays.
So there's two more years
of Dan being able to wear that.
yeah.
I mean, unless unless Travis
fucks it up with Taylor,
then that jerseys getting burned,
you aren't gonna wear it in this house.
Okay, let's just talk about that
for a second.
I know we're going off topic a little bit.
But like, I was.
Talking to Eric about this and I'm like.
Everybody loves Travis so much.
And they love them together.
And it's just hearts and roses
and like everybody is like,
oh my God, he's such a protector.
And this is the real deal.
If he fucks up. This.
Fucking crazy
Swifties are going to go on him.
They're going to switch on him like that,
like a 360.
He's not even going to know what hit him.
We might. Actually start.
Bringing up the fact that the.
Chiefs as a name is like, actually not.
Politically correct and a little racist.
Like, we'll go against the Chiefs.
They're going to go against Andy Reid.
They're going to go against true.
No, not Andy Reid.
Not no Andy Reid
is still he's a he's protected.
Everyone's just going to flip their script
so quick.
Swifties are so quick
about flipping that flipping the script.
Yeah I don't. Think Travis understands
that.
Yeah.
No I think he does,
which is why he hopefully won't fuck up.
Hope not.
All right, so let's talk about Clara Bow.
So this is the. 16th track. Right?
It's the final track
of the original Tortured Poets Drop,
obviously with it being a double album
that that changed. But,
this is one where she did
give a voice memo.
So for a handful of tracks, Taylor
released a voice memo on Apple Music, I.
Think for one for channel. 13.
It was channel 13.
But then I actually think
Amazon Music, you can have them,
but I found it on TikTok.
Let's be real, somebody reposted it.
And so what I did was I transcribed it
and I'm going to read it for you guys
just because I don't really want to have
any copyright issues by playing
Taylor's voice
and posting it to YouTube or to Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, all of that.
so I'm not even going to lie.
I'm not going to pretend to be Taylor
here.
I'm not going to like, do the same
inflections. I'm just going to read it.
and then Jessie will do,
a little bit of the analysis.
So Clara Bow, this is this is from Taylor.
Clara Bow is a song that I wrote
as sort of a commentary on
just what I've seen in the industry
that I've been in over time.
Right.
Like, I used to sit in record labels
trying to get a record deal
when I was a little kid, and they'd say,
you know, you remind us of,
and then they'd name an artist,
and then they'd kind of
say something
disparaging about her and be like,
the you're this, you're
so much better in this way or that way.
And that's how we kind of teach women
to see themselves.
It's like,
you could be the new replacement
for this woman who's done
something great before you.
And so I had this idea
that it's a conversation
between the young woman
sitting in the chair in front of the desk,
in the man in power or woman in power,
sitting behind the desk saying,
oh, you remind us
so much of a woman who came before you.
But don't worry, you're better.
Like we're going to make you the new her.
So I picked women who have done
great things in the past and have been
these sort of archetypes of greatness
in the entertainment industry.
Clara Bow was the first IT girl.
Stevie Nicks is an icon,
you know, an incredible
example for anyone
who wants to write songs and make music.
So I just thought it would be interesting
to talk about how weird that feels
if we really add it up to that's
what we do as a society. End take.
There's my, My impression. So all right.
So that gives context from Taylor's
perspective.
I think that it helps us to,
you know, kind of drive down the road
of how we are going to analyze it.
But, Jesse, what what is your take? Well.
when you
start with Clara Bow, it starts with
you look like Clara Bow in the slight.
Remarkable. All your life.
Did you know you'd be picked like a rose?
So the minute I heard the.
Picked like a rose,
I had thought of the lakes where she says
a red rose grew out of the ice.
Frozen ground
with no one around to tweet it.
Which, if you think about it,
no one would be around to tweet it
because Twitter wasn't there.
Twitter wasn't available
back in the Clara Bow days.
So I kind of
took that as a spin on that lyric
a little bit, which is really cool
of Taylor, if that's what she meant to do.
But I don't know.
Maybe not.
I don't think
she's literally comparing herself
to Clara Bow or that anyone said, hey,
like sat her down, said,
you look like Clara Bow because like,
a lot of people didn't even know
Clara Bow was before this song.
So I think that she got a lot of
you look like Jessica Simpson,
or you look like Stevie Nicks,
or you like this or that.
What I think this refers to possibly.
And this is just my opinion.
My take she.
So Stevie
Nicks wrote her poem in the intro, right?
Yeah. The front of the album or whatever.
Yeah. Vinyl. Yeah.
And I think her and Stevie
had a conversation about this,
and Stevie said, oh yeah, people
used to tell me I looked like Clara Bow.
So when I've
seen TikToks that kind of compare the
the progression like they show Clara
and then Stevie and then Taylor and yeah,
you can kind of see
especially young Stevie.
You can. Yeah.
And so I think the first part of this
could be from Stevie's perspective.
I'm not.
So she goes on and like she's,
she's kind of going into herself
now I'm not trying to exaggerate,
but I think I might die if it happened.
Did that happen to me.
No one in my small town
thought I'd see the lights of Manhattan.
So that's where technically
Taylor went first.
Right?
She after,
like during red is when she moved.
Literally moved herself to Manhattan.
Yeah,
I think Clara Bow is from New York as well
so that might even be that.
because Claire,
she was from a very, like, slum.
Me like I said, that's on me.
It's like a slum lord.
Like, you know, it's from the like
she was from a very impoverished family,
and she used to buy, like,
fashion magazines, and,
was really obsessed
with the cinema and stuff.
So she also the lights of Manhattan.
I don't want to speak about this
because I haven't researched it too far,
but that could even be reference
to, like, Clara.
Yeah, definitely it could, and I don't.
I have not researched a lot about Clara
Bow, and I know she was a silent film
star, and one of the first in the talkies,
but that's all I really know.
And I need to.
I think her, her stars
on Sunset and Vine, isn't it?
Oh, no, it is.
You're right. I forgot about that song.
And that's in what song?
Of Taylor's sunset and vine.
You ruined my life by not being mine.
You're so gorgeous.
Yeah. So she says sunset and vine.
And I think it's. Oh, yeah.
Sunset and vine.
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah, it's I got it,
I got it.
Sorry.
My voice is even worse than normal
because I'm sick, so.
But what would our podcast be without us?
I mean, singing a song.
We aren't recording artists either.
Right?
so people are.
Talking to Stevie
as what I'm picturing and saying.
That town is fake,
but you're the real thing.
Breath of fresh air through smoke rings.
Take the glory.
Give everything promise to be dazzling.
So now we get to Taylor.
And I feel like this versus
for Taylor, right?
You look like Stevie Nicks in 75,
which there is a shout out to the 1975.
If anyone caught that, like she.
Didn't you actually mention that to me?
You texted me.
You were like,
oh, it's weird, she says, 1975.
And I was like, And then I was like,
oh shit.
Because of the 1975, and Matty
and all that, because.
She could have said any year, any year.
In there.
I mean, did something happen
with Stevie significant in 1975?
I haven't really looked into that,
but I wonder if that was just a nugget
she put in there.
Yeah.
The hair and lips crowd goes
wild at our fingertips.
Half moon shine a full eclipse.
I'm not trying to exaggerate, but I think
I might die if I made it die from it.
And Taylor would say that if someone said,
you remind us of Stevie Nicks,
and you could get the crowd to do things
that Stevie Nicks gets the crowd to do,
Stevie Nicks is actually one of the people
I haven't seen yet in concert,
and I'm surprised, but it like, she's
she is an icon.
She's a goddamn national treasure,
you know?
Yeah.
Well, Stevie Nicks,
I will say I just looked it up.
She joined Fleetwood Fleetwood Mac
in 1975, so that was a significant year.
Okay.
But but I, I could see both.
Yeah. Being true.
There is a lot of parallels
with this album though.
And Fleetwood Mac and Stevie Nicks
and the whole thing too,
so I do,
I don't think Taylor just grabbed these
two people, Clara Bow and Stevie
Nicks, out of thin air like.
No, they're.
Important to this album
in some form or fashion.
And yep,
when you think about it, Clara Bow,
Stevie Nicks, and Taylor Swift
are all very different people.
Yeah, they're not, they're not.
I think that's actually
maybe part of the nuance in the beauty
of how she chose
these people is she didn't choose,
you know, characters or people who
she really is directly mirroring in
her career, even the fact that she chose
an actress versus just singing
and songwriting in the sense that, like,
it doesn't actually mean you don't.
They're not saying you're going to be just
like the person you actually look like.
They're like literally any woman
who is at the top of her pinnacle.
It doesn't matter if you're actually
like her or look like her, you.
We're going to tell you
that you are going to replace her.
And it doesn't.
It's not because you're actually the same,
but because it
her time is up
and at the top of the podium.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean the it girl I guess of the time.
Yeah.
But yeah.
So this town is fake,
but you're the real thing.
Goes into the promised to be dazzling.
Then the crown is stained.
But you're the real queen.
Fresh in blood amongst war machines.
So that gives me big machine vibes
as like the
war and the war that she had with them.
And like, these are the very people
that were sitting in the chairs
telling her, hey,
you look like Stevie Nicks,
but you have this or you have that,
you have something she doesn't have.
Interesting.
We need did with a blood reference to me.
Crimson Clover and the Great War.
Like there's definitely
I mean, we knew she was going to do
war imagery at some point.
Let's be it for real.
But that is a good call out
the use of the word machine
with big machine Records
being her original label.
That probably told her all this shit,
honestly.
Yeah, that that they were
the ones that literally sat her
across the table
and said, you're this and that, but
you have this that Stevie doesn't have,
or you have that, or you're, you know.
Okay.
So then it goes into beauty
is a beast that roars.
And she has had several beauty
and the beast references.
So anti-hero tale as old as time.
Now we have this one like there's,
there's been quite a few.
There's more too.
I just can't think of them
off the top of my I mean. Let's be real.
She was born in 1989, so like, she like
myself was raised on that Disney shit.
Like, it's probably in her veins
whether she's like trying
to make a statement about it or not.
It's part of our DNA.
Well, and I never thought of her
referring to herself
like I always thought,
oh, she's referring to herself as Belle.
Like maybe she's being trapped or held,
but she's referring herself to the beast.
So it says.
Well, the monster. Anti-hero thing.
Yeah. Too big to hang out with. Yeah.
Yeah.
Beauty is a beast that roars down
on all fours, demanding more.
Only when your girlish glow flickers.
Just so do they let you know
it's hell on earth to be heavenly.
Them. I love that line.
It is. It reminds me of it.
Reminds me of darling I'm
a nightmare dressed like a daydream.
It's like literally an oxymoron.
It's like hell on earth to be heavenly.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because when she's supposed to be
this heavenly young girl
with a glow
that everyone wants her to be is
when she's in the depths of hell
and depressed.
You know,
them's the breaks.
They don't come gently.
And I love that she said it like that.
Them's the breaks.
Like them's the breaks, kid.
Like back in the Clara Bow
days. Like that's how they talked.
Okay.
Yeah, I like that.
I'm saying okay, because. I'm like,
that sounds right.
I wouldn't have gotten that, though.
Yeah, that's like.
A 1920s, 1930s phrase.
Them's the breaks,
I like it.
They don't come gently.
I don't know, that was.
Just the first thing
when I ever heard that song.
I'm like, oh, interesting
little throwback there.
And then this is my favorite part
of this whole song because it's it
ties it all together.
And her just singing her own
name to me gives me chills.
Creeped me out, not creeped me out.
I shouldn't say that,
but it it kind of felt weird.
It was like breaking a fourth wall almost.
It was a jump scare.
It was a jump scare.
He did. Yeah,
it was a definite jump scare.
Because he was like,
is this because you're not expecting it?
And it's like,
you look like Taylor's swift in this.
And I'm like, what?
Oh my gosh.
No, I
don't. Think we recorded our reaction.
We were done by then. Like the
the film had run out.
I've no battery left on my camera.
Clara Bow is the last song
we listened to at our listening party,
and I think I was checked out.
Oh, yeah, we were.
I mean, it was like 3 a.m..
And we did not stay out for
the second drop because we were just like,
had to be somewhere in the morning.
It was almost four and we're just like,
I can't, I can't do it.
Well, this is a good time to plug the vlog
that I.
Posted,
which actually a lot of people loved.
I'm surprised how many views it's gotten.
So for everyone who's a big listener
like love you, thank you
for, watching that
because it was fun to make.
And, yeah, I did a vlog
going through the whole week leading up.
Not the whole week,
but the days leading up till Torture Poets
department,
we were together in South Carolina.
So if you want to know why
we, by Clara Bow, we're just drained.
It's all in there. It's all in there.
So it's on our YouTube.
Yeah, it's really good.
I loved making that vlog with you to like
and watching you recorded the whole time.
Oh my God, I'm
going to be vlogging more now.
especially with all the reactions,
you know, people
saying they love the behind the scenes.
Jessi and I were saying,
we're going to do more
more behind the scenes for you guys,
and posting them to our YouTube.
So if you don't follow our subscribe
to our YouTube yet,
definitely do, because some of that stuff
doesn't make sense
on like a Spotify or an Apple podcast.
So if you only listen to us
in like an audio form,
definitely check out the YouTube,
because we're going to have
a lot more content
coming out here in the next few weeks
now that we've regained our energy.
so okay, so back to Clara Bow.
No. And as well,
like I was saying, you're a good vlogger
and a couple of other things
that you guys might love to.
And this is that we were with a lot of
really popular content creators
in South Carolina, and Anna had a chance
to interview a lot of them for this show.
I was like,
yeah, I like trapped Nikki in the car
several times, and we have one with Ty.
And then I posted, the three creators
that were there Hannah, Ashley and Kenzie,
who do the amazing, like,
replica costumes.
They did a whole panel, and,
it was so good.
Yeah, I don't even know how they do that.
Like, it's so intricate.
And they told me it.
One of I can't remember which one told me
it took them like two months to do one.
Yeah, Hannah tracked her hours because
she wants to start, like, creating,
like being more precise about, like,
how much she's spending on it versus
because she's selling
them. And she said 100 hours.
I mean, they're worth the money.
There's so.
Yeah, intricate. Stunning.
So then you come off of the bridge
and you get that very last chorus
you have like Taylor Swift in this light.
We're loving it. You've got edge.
She never did.
The future is bright dazzling.
So the minute I heard that part where
it says you've got edge, she never did.
First of all Taylor
is talking about herself like okay,
they've got a new person sitting across
the desk now, whether that be a young
whoever, Olivia Rodrigo, Sabrina
Carpenter, whoever you want to pick,
you know, Billie Eilish and you know,
you look like Taylor Swift.
You remind us of Taylor Swift,
but you have edge.
She never did.
So this brings me back to a interview
she did.
I think it was 2016, 2015
where she said,
I am not edgy, sexy or cool.
Those are the three things I am not.
I remember this she's.
Always had,
I think a little bit of insecurity around
that, that she's never been edgy enough.
So she said to the interviewer,
I don't remember exactly who it was.
I am not edgy, sexy or cool.
And they said something to the effect of,
well, what are you then?
And she said,
I am smart, creative and hard working.
I remember this because I remember
being like, hell fucking.
Yeah,
because I also, I could relate to that.
I was never cool or sexy or edgy,
at least growing up.
Like, I feel like by the time,
you get to an age
where you actually can control
those things about your life,
you don't care anymore.
You know, it's like,
oh yeah, and people just.
Are people, you know what I mean?
But like,
when you're young, that shit matters.
and it feels like it does.
Well, and if, you know,
I mean, if you don't know Taylor, but
if you watch Taylor just when she's not,
like, on for the cameras
and she's not, you know,
like in performer mode,
she's just like a regular girl.
Like she some kind of dorky and so cute
and just like the girl next door,
like she's.
She's right.
Like she's not like this edge.
We don't need it.
We don't need her to be edgy.
Right?
Yeah, but I think that she's always kind
of had that in the back of her mind
to where she's had to work really hard
at being the edgy, sexy, cool
part of her music videos
and her stage performances and stuff. So
do you know what I mean?
Yeah, well, and I just pulled it up.
It was.
On. Oh, it's.
With, Oh my God.
Starts with a J, starts with a J. Oprah's
friend.
Oprah's friend.
Oh, Gayle Gayle G.
The G. Gayle. Okay.
Yeah, it was with Gayle on CBS morning.
Okay.
So if you look at it literally,
I mean, I just googled sexy.
Cool. What what did you say it was.
She said edgy sexy G6.
Yeah,
I googled edgy sexy or cool Taylor Swift
and it was the first thing that came up.
But yeah, I was on CBS mornings.
I don't. Know why.
That's always just stuck in my mind.
I think I just loved how she bounced back
and said, I'm smart and
creative and hardworking.
Like she just like a lot of women
can't compliment themselves.
They have a hard time doing that.
And she was just like,
no, look, this is what I am.
I work hard, yes, I'm creative
and I'm smart.
Yeah,
smart is like one of those things
where I'm like, it's it's like you.
It's your own version
of what you think about yourself, right?
Like, you could be super smart
and think you're dumb
because you're comparing upwards,
or you could be, you know,
super educated in a certain field
and not know anything about the other.
But like most
women are pretty fucking smart.
Yeah, I agree. Let's be real.
I agree.
I think that people are.
There's so many types of smart
and there's so many
like there's street smart, there's books
smart there.
I mean, industry smart.
Yeah. Yeah.
I just think we
I think we have more puzzles to solve
as women in society as far as how to
how to make, make things work for us
and also how to stay safe.
And, you know, the calculated risks
that we take and everything that
we do in life just being,
women.
I also think we have a higher pain
tolerance because we menstruate
and we literally have stabbing pains
in our gut from the time in which we,
go through puberty.
So that's my other kind of soliloquy
I'm going to give out here,
is that
I think that women have higher pain.
Oh, God.
Because of that and labor. Fucking labor.
You feel like you're going to die?
Oh, well, I mean, I haven't gone through.
Labor and nor do
I want to volunteer to do that.
I like
awful, awful.
I'm like awful, like not again.
Yeah, no
Yeah.
But so when she says you've got edge,
she never did.
The future's bright, dazzling.
So they're talking to this other person.
And this also goes back to how Taylor said
several times, even most recently,
like on, Jimmy Fallon,
where she was interviewed after Midnights.
It's how she feels like
she's a geriatric pop star
and how she has to keep
reinventing herself with these eras
coming up with new things, new ideas.
She doesn't want to get stale.
She does want to get old.
That's an insecurity most women have.
Yeah.
I mean,
I feel a little bit more woke in my 30s.
I just used woke.
And then that said that I'm in my 30s,
so obviously
I'm I'm trying to be cool right now.
but like, I definitely feel like you reach
a certain age where, like, you're like,
it really doesn't matter.
You know.
But for when you're
until you reach that point,
it really does feel like, you know
what's going to happen when I get old?
What's going to happen
when I get a wrinkle? What's going to.
And I say that
like I have fucking Botox in my face.
Like, you know,
like I definitely pay money to look good.
So I guess I'm
a big fucking hypocrite for saying that.
But in the grand scheme of things, it's
not what I value about myself or my life.
It's just fun to do.
but as women, we definitely have pressure
to stay looking.
Good and put together and.
Yeah.
Oh yeah. Totally. I mean, like.
Yeah, it's.
It's definitely a thing
that I think men don't understand too,
because they, I feel like men
tend to look better as they age.
But is that
because our perception is that,
you know, we've always seen it
that way, right?
Like that.
You know, in Hollywood,
you know, you've got silver foxes of men
who are, you know, put in these roles.
I actually remember seeing that, like,
we're in Hollywood with like, women,
like they will, they'll hire
or they'll put like a 30 year old actress
as the mom of, like, a teenager,
you know, like, they they always cast up.
And so your perception of what a. Mom.
In her mid-forties should look like
is being played by a young 30.
And then what?
Your perception of somebody in their young
20s is actually, you know, a teenager.
Like, think about even Mila Kunis
on that show, 70 or whatever.
She was 14
when she was supposed to be playing.
Well, I guess she would have been in
high school, so maybe that was accurate.
Yeah, a little bit.
But she still like.
And there's probably better examples.
But I
but I think for men like we're so used
to seeing men at the age
that they typically are.
And so it's just more acceptable.
also it just came to a mind
with Clara Bow.
Do you think the bows.
That she kept wearing in her hair, like,
around Christmas
and stuff, was an Easter egg for this?
Maybe.
I remember that.
That's a good point.
Yeah, that was like a new thing
that she had started doing.
Like at the Chiefs games.
Like she had, like, bows in her hair
and stuff.
Yeah.
But also, I just want to end this
analysis, I guess, with,
Aaron Dessner and Taylor
Swift wrote this together
and Aaron produced it.
And Taylor, but when she says dazzling.
So there's a lot of theories out there
that she is going to play the Dazzler,
right? In the Marvel Universe.
Is it Marvel Universe?
I don't watch any of those shows,
so I don't know for sure.
But like Ryan Reynolds type.
Of I think so, that sounds right.
Is the director.
So they had there's like Wolverine
and Deadpool or something like that.
It's Ryan and Hugh Jackman,
and then Sam Levinson, who's the director,
and I hope I'm saying his name right.
They were all in a suite with Taylor
watching a Chiefs game.
And I remember thinking, that's so weird.
Why is like Hugh Jackman
and Sam Levinson in there?
So then now I'm thinking, like,
is she really going to play the Dazzler?
I could see it.
I could see that rumor already existing,
her realizing she's going to sing a song
with dazzling in it and being like, hey,
Ryan, wouldn't this be funny?
Let's fuel
the fucking rumors. Yeah. You know, yeah.
I mean, well, time will tell, I guess.
But people,
I know that there's this huge campaign
about people to play the Dazzler
I don't know what the Dazzler is,
honestly like.
I have no idea.
But yeah, we only have enough brain space
to be obsessed with one whole universe.
And it's the Taylor universe.
Yeah, the Taylor multiverse
Just music in general.
so. Well,
do you have anything else on Clara Bow?
Because that's my analysis so far.
No. I think one thing I wanted to touch
on, I don't know if.
You saw that,
in the Fortnite music video, in the intro,
like when she's looking in the mirror
and she is about to take off the makeup
and reveal the tattoos,
how her makeup is done, like Clara Bow.
You know, I think.
That's just something to point out.
I'm kind of wondering if I wish I.
I've never wanted more music videos
in my life from an album,
because I feel like the music video
has put it more into perspective.
But she did say that the Fortnite music
video encompasses the whole album,
so there's like stuff from all corners
of this album that she's referring
to, like The Black Dog is in it and
she looks like Clara Bow in the mirror.
Yeah, more.
But, I just feel like how cool would it be
to have a music video for, like,
who's a who's afraid of little old me?
Like, it's me and Nikki.
We're talking about this.
And Nikki said
she could see it as like an old western
town and Taylor coming in on a horse.
How cool is that?
Like thought? Yeah.
Like the old West.
And like Taylor
just fucking up this town, like.
I mean, I could see I just thought that
was really cool that she thought of that.
But, like,
you could definitely do a music video
for almost all these songs
and it would be just spectacular.
Yeah.
Or maybe it's a soundtrack of the movie
she's already written.
And we're getting I'm
just getting soundtrack.
Is coming, you guys.
soundtrack. She keeps saying it.
Yeah, yeah.
There's something, there's something.
So I do want to say that our analysis
is not all encompassing.
Of all the ways that Clara Bow may be
tied to Taylor, there are so many things.
We even probably touched on them ahead
of the Torture Poets release about how
she was a silent film actress,
and then she became a talkie.
And was Taylor feeling silenced
and her relationship.
And then you've got that
she was in a mental institution,
and then you've got four torture poets
being intimate.
So there are so many things
I could just rattle off.
So I don't want you guys to think
that we're like, missing pieces.
You guys are welcome to comment
with all the shit we missed.
I would love that. Give us comments.
But I say that just to say, like,
we're not intending for these analyzes
to go into every corner of theory land
just because,
I mean, it would be an episode a piece
but knowing that we really want to touch
on just some initial lyrical stuff
and just some things that stand out,
maybe that tie to other lyrics.
But that's why TiKTok and all these
other creators that are out there
doing the legwork to are so important
because there's way more that we don't.
Know. Or that we do know,
and we just didn't cover
or that we've completely forgot about.
So like, feel free to like, comment
if there's anything else,
but I just wanted to say that as far
as when we move forward
to the different songs in the album,
that we're just really going to touch on
what we're taking away and anything
that may actually be new thoughts as well.
Yeah, and definitely when we,
you know, when we say things,
if we saw it or anything like that
from another creator, we are going to try
to credit as much as we can.
there are just so many videos
and you know how you just scroll so quick
and then thoughts stick in your head.
And so thank you to everybody out there
doing legwork on this too.
another thing I did want to mention about
Clara Bow that I did look up and I just,
I don't know why I thought to do this,
but Taylor always said that Joe's okay.
So Joe's grandfather, William Owen, who
He got the name William Bowery from,
he said that he was a composer for movies.
And I looked him up, and he does have
a good 50 movies
under his belt that he scored.
Interesting.
And I thought, and he started,
Clara started, I think, around the 1920s,
and he started around
the end of the 1930s.
So I wanted to see if any crossover.
And he had scored any of her movies
and I didn't.
Did you find it
or you just haven't gotten there yet?
I got homework, I. It's you know what?
I looked really carefully
and tried to figure it out.
If he did.
And I don't think he did
unless I missed something.
So yeah, you could
you guys could double check that. But.
Awesome.
All right. Cool.
Well, as we wrap up for this week,
I did want to just mention that,
I know we had K.J.
on a few weeks ago.
Definitely go. Listen,
she did another Taylor Swift themed
episode that just dropped on May 2nd.
So the day before we're dropping this
episode, comparing Taylor and Kim.
So the whole premise is the two queens,
two crowns.
So she talks about two people
who have crowns
and that they don't necessarily
have to be battled against each other.
in talks about kind of some backstory
of why people think that
they're battling or like,
I shouldn't say battle is like BattleBots.
no. But like, you know,
she's done like Christina and Britney,
she's on Taylor and Beyonce.
So this one is Taylor and Kim.
I'm like nervous laughing at the
the potential fall out of you.
She's like, I don't even know
if I'm supposed to call Kim a Queen.
Like all that.
So we don't go watch that.
Episode because I'm going to be on next
week's episode of Two Queens,
Two Crowns to. Talk about the fallout,
potentially, of.
What has been posted.
So I'm like halfway through, that episode.
But just knowing
that you guys are Swifties
and knowing that y'all love KJ,
she did do another episode on Two Queens,
Two Crowns about Taylor, so definitely go
check that out after you're done with us.
I can't wait to analyze.
Thank you aimee,
because I have a lot for you guys.
I know it's gonna be a good one.
Maybe we should talk about that before
I go on 2 Queens 2 Crowns
so I can bring all that.
lore.
All right. Great.
And then don't forget about the TTPD draft
Jessi's team is beating my ass
last time I checked, so.
I don't know if there's. Really.
Yeah. Yeah, fine.
I actually do think your team is better.
Like, if objectively,
I were to remove myself
from the situation,
I would have voted for your team.
So definitely good job there.
But if you guys want to go to the website,
sign in.
There is, page for the draft
and you can view both of our teams,
which context we chose before Tortured
Poets came out, we were just going off
names and track numbers.
But that's a really fun way to engage.
And, we're gonna continue
to rolling out new stuff on the site.
And yeah,
I think that's really it for this week.
Oh, no. Paris bingo cards.
Surprise song. Bingo.
You guys go on the website
tspodnetwork.com
That's already up, right?
Surprise song bingo is available,
so go make surprise song bingo cards.
Or if you just even want to do a bingo
card of,
like, stuff that might happen in Paris.
It's just a fill in the blank,
and then it creates a card for you.
but I mean, the TTPD bingo
cards were a hit, like,
I mean, we got thousands of submissions,
so that's crazy.
Thank you all who submitted to that
But, but if you do want to kind of
build out a bingo card
of potential surprise songs
that she may be playing here
in the next several months,
definitely get it in before Paris starts
so that you have more shows to
to potentially check off your list.
Yeah, play with your friends
like it's it's really cool to do.
Yeah. And it's completely free.
You can make multiple
I mean if you want to make
three cards for yourself
just for funsies like do it.
I don't care.
it's it's, just a free tool
that we offer on our website, so.
Okay.
In into wrap up, I just want to read one
review that we got on our Apple podcast.
So again, reminder leave us five star
reviews, but this one made Jessi and I.
So after you look at that.
She's even got her hand on her heart.
So it's from a user that obviously didn't
want to give a username because it says,
whydonicknamesexist?
but they said two top notch women.
In the Taylorverse,
These two are the quill.
Pens of podcasts.
Very thorough
analysis of theories, news and lyrics.
Their dynamic is perfection.
13 out of 13.
I'm gonna make that my whole personality
for a while.
Right now.
I feel like whoever. Left that like.
Someone called us quill pen girls.
That is like,
the best compliment of my life.
Yeah, and.
We're 13 out of 13. So.
Well, yeah.
So definitely leave us five stars.
If you haven't already, subscribe to our.
YouTube if you haven't.
Already,
and we will be back with you next week.
As always, we love you guys. Bye.