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Parkinson’s: An Athlete’s Journey is for athletes navigating Parkinson’s, the coaches and clinicians who train them, and anyone who wants real-world strategies for performance and longevity. Hosted by Eric Von Frohlich and Todd Vogt, the show focuses on tactical takeaways: how to train, recover, manage symptoms, and stay consistent when the rules keep changing. Expect honest conversations, tested routines, and guest experts who go deeper on what works.
TODD VOGT (00:31)
McCastle. I'm super excited for this podcast. Mike's really interesting character here.
maybe give us a
description about your bio and how you got to where you are now.
Michael (00:39)
I have a background in the service. I was in the Navy 11 years. And towards the tail end of that, I began this initiative called the 12 Labors Project. And a big part of that is from what I experienced with my father who did live with Parkinson's for much of his most of, from what I could remember since as early as I could remember.
had it and really it was born from concept of, know, he didn't choose to have Parkinson's. It was this concept of kind of involuntary hardship. He didn't choose it, but yet he faced it every day with dignity. And he showed me strength in a lot of ways that aren't like your conventional definitions of strength. And so I figured, you know, if he could...
choose that to face that challenge every day. I could also choose to do hard things to honor his fight that he had with Parkinson's each and every day that I've watched him growing up. So that's what I did. know, Hercules had his 12 labors, these 12 seemingly impossible challenges that he had to overcome. So I set out to do the same, you know, these 12 seemingly impossible feats of strength and endurance kind of honor my father's spirit.
Eric Von Frohlich (01:29)
Thank
Michael (01:54)
and the dignity that he showed as he faced some of the biggest challenges in his life with Parkinson's.
Eric Von Frohlich (02:00)
that was one
of the most beautiful dedications I've came across. And, you know, as a dad to know that what we're going through with Parkinson's can inspire your children. I mean, you only hope for that, but you don't know whether or not, you know, is it, go through different stages and different ages, whether or not they're learning those lessons of how to face hardship every day and pick up your cross and, you on.
It's incredible. I'm super excited for our discussion because that you tapped on my motivation as well with how I try to move through my day and hopefully inspire my children. You're obviously a living example of that. So thank you for that dedication. It's beautiful.
Michael (02:46)
Thank you.
TODD VOGT (02:46)
Yeah,
what first one you did? What was the first project you did?
Michael (02:51)
The first labor I did was back in 2013, actually, I was still in the service and living up in Washington, Oak Harbor, Washington. So the first one I did, ran a 50 K 50 kilometers with a 40 pound pack. I had just recovered from surgery while I was in seal training. I blew out both of my knees, tore my left ACL, right meniscus had to get surgery and
During that time, I kind of found myself in a dark place. I kind of lost my sense of purpose, lost, kind of lost my way of someone who's always kind of defined myself by my physical ability. So I had my own personal taste of what it's like to have something taken from me physically and to cope with that to, you know, I started to then think of what can I do to kind of set a goal for myself to train. And then I tapped into what
My memories and experiences was with my father during that time to start the 12 labors project. So the first labor was a 50 K run with the, with the 40 pound pack. I ran around Seattle actually, ⁓ charted a course, threw it up on Strava and just, and just ran it.
Eric Von Frohlich (04:00)
I'm sure
your PT didn't sign off on that, right?
Michael (04:03)
They can't sign off on what they don't know about their Eric. ⁓
Eric Von Frohlich (04:06)
I'm going
TODD VOGT (04:08)
Nice.
Eric Von Frohlich (04:08)
to keep that in mind. Thank you.
TODD VOGT (04:10)
How long did that take?
Michael (04:12)
I think that first one took me about eight hours. Yeah, eight or eight and a half hours to get that done.
Eric Von Frohlich (04:19)
And what was the mindset going into it? Obviously it was something hard. But how did you go from being depressed and kind of lost to being inspired to get your body moving again and find what you can do?
Michael (04:32)
Yeah,
sure. Yeah, it's like, you don't conquer the mountain in one day. You don't conquer the whole mountain in one day. And I'm sure, you know, people living with Parkinson's can attest to this. It's just the winning the morning, right? You just this is small little battles that compound throughout the day. And for me, that's exactly what it was. I wasn't thinking of the entire 50, 50 K. I was thinking of the next minute, the next rep, the next thing that I needed to do.
to just keep me and those small victories just started to compound. know, someone living with Parkinson's, it could be, you know, finishing a conversation clearly or, you know, getting up without assistance. It's those small things. And a lot of times a common mistake I think athletes make is they think of the big picture and the big mountain and it gets overwhelming. And really just, you just got to win the morning, win the afternoon.
And that's what I did. That's what got me through those first few labors. I just really cherish those small victories that I know, some mornings was very painful with my knees still recovering. And sometimes I didn't want to run and I didn't want to train and I didn't want to do these things. But, and if I found my mind starting to drift to the end goal and the big picture and, you know, start thinking about, well, I was here and now I'm down here and now I got to build back up. I found myself getting overwhelmed. So I think just, ⁓
shrinking the battlefield was super important for me and taking it, eating the elephant one chunk at a time.
TODD VOGT (05:58)
Yeah, I love that. doing my Paralympic training, that's often the way I would think of it. it's being outcome-driven but process-focused. And that helps on a daily basis. So a lot of times for me, the outcome was, win a medal at the World Championships. Okay, then I gotta step back. It means I have to be fast enough to get into a boat that has the opportunity to go to the World Championships.
Michael (06:07)
Yes.
TODD VOGT (06:22)
Okay, being fast enough to get into a boat means I've got to go fast on the rowing machine, whatever metric that is. I've got to go 625 for 2,000 meters or faster, which meant I would need to put at least 10 hours a week on the water.
Eric Von Frohlich (06:23)
Okay.
TODD VOGT (06:33)
also thought that it helped on a daily basis I would just sort of step back and say, what's the goal for this session? The goal for this session is to get 90 minutes, low intensity, try to.
Eric Von Frohlich (06:41)
And
TODD VOGT (06:43)
do these five technical drills.
Michael (06:45)
100%.
Eric Von Frohlich (06:47)
Sometimes the hardest rep is the first rep. Just getting in the gym every day and committing to the is super important in keeping the momentum going in the right direction.
TODD VOGT (06:49)
Yeah.
Michael (06:50)
Absolutely.
Yeah, just get started.
TODD VOGT (07:00)
after you carried the 50 pound pack, you did the 50K, what other, what are some of the
Michael (07:04)
Right. So yeah, first labor was the, with this 50 K run and that kind of just set in the motion. Like once I accomplished that, it was such a big win for me and just motivation for me to kind of see what more I could do, how much further I can push myself and just tapping into that strength and courage and resilience that I witnessed my father display. I fell into this deep.
curiosity now of like what more could I do so the second labor I attempted to break the world record for the most pull-ups in 24 hours and I've actually failed at that labor I fell I fell short I completed 3,202 pull-ups 17 hours and fell short on that one I couldn't continue I ended up in the hospital for several days the record holder at the time was David Goggins I'm sure you're familiar with who that was or who that is
TODD VOGT (07:54)
course.
Michael (07:55)
And yeah, so I fell short and again, kind of felt myself kind of falling back into that place. Like, okay, did I set too ambitions of a goal? Like maybe I'm not, maybe I can't. So what I want people to really understand is like these thoughts, these doubts, these fears, these hesitations, these things are completely normal to experience. What's important though, and what I remember from what my
Eric Von Frohlich (08:20)
Thanks.
Michael (08:22)
I remember my dad had all these feelings as well, fear and hesitation and doubt as Parkinson's started to take things from him daily, it was how he responded to it. To feel those things is normal, everyone does, but what separates a great athlete or what separates someone who succeeds in life or anything is how they respond to those moments. Because really the brain is a liar was what I learned from that failure
Eric Von Frohlich (08:31)
.
Michael (08:46)
Immediately after that failure, you know, it's like, okay, you can't do this. You're not strong enough. You're not this, you you're doing too much. You should just stop. You should quit. And yeah, the brain is just doing its job. It's gonna protect you. It's gonna try to protect you. And although it is, job is to protect, it's not always accurate. And it's important to distinguish the difference between the two. So it's important on how you respond in those moments, because that's gonna determine how the brain wires itself for the next challenge.
Because the next challenge is coming, it's inevitable. Whether you quit and stop or not, there's still going to be something that's coming at you. And with people with Parkinson's, what I saw with my dad is he went to bed every night and he woke up every morning knowing that that challenge was going to be there waiting for him. And how he responded, his attitude, his will, even though his body weakened, his will didn't The way he approached these challenges, he never complained. He always had a very positive mindset when it came to it.
Eric Von Frohlich (09:31)
Thank
Michael (09:42)
you know, I'm also a coach. Like I train mountaineers and people to go on polar expeditions. And there's a lot of things that are outside of your control, the cold, the altitude, you know, sleep deprivation. But what is always in your control is how you respond. So that's one thing that I learned from that failure is that your brain is a liar. And it's what's more important than the failure in the moment is how you respond to it, the lessons you learn from it. It's just data. It's just information. And it's on you to interpret it.
how you interpret that data and information will determine whether you succeed or fail the next time.
So I took the data and information from that failure and I came back a year later and I ended up beating the world record for the most pull-ups in 24 hours. I did it with a 30 pound pack on my back and I did over 5,800 pull-ups to beat that
Eric Von Frohlich (10:30)
Wow, it's remarkable. The mindset is the remarkable part because it's how you built yourself up every day to accomplish that. Those hurdles to overcome such an amazing feat of strength.
Michael (10:41)
Right.
TODD VOGT (10:46)
when you're in the moment doing the pull-ups like What's your mental talk like? How do you deal with the fatigue of you know? I'm sure at some point during the 24 hours you're like I can't even under the successful attempt I'm sure there was some point where you're like, I don't think I can go anymore.
Michael (10:59)
Really, it's just those two things, know, recognizing that voice that will come on, that will try to talk you out of, you know, when you get to a certain point, there's a voice in your head that will try to convince you that you've reached your limit and that you should stop and that you should quit. you've got to just recognize that voice for what it is and the mechanism behind it and why that voice is being activated. And then you just have to look at your strategy and go back to
shrinking the battlefield and saying, okay, well, I'm not gonna get lost in the sauce of what could happen 10, know, an hour from now or three or four hours from now. I'm gonna see what I can do in the next couple minutes. There's nothing that can break me in the next couple minutes. I could do anything for 60 seconds. I could do anything for two minutes. At that time, at the end of that two minutes, I'm gonna reassess and I'm just gonna keep taking it in those small chunks and keep compounding those little victories.
And what you'll notice is over time that voice gets softer and softer and softer. And finally, you get into a flow state, you get into a zone where that voice is completely quiet. And that's where you start to make up ground. And that's where you start to, and then before you know it, you have accomplished what you set out to do. Or even if you haven't, you're still learning, you're getting data, you're getting information, you're still gaining something from it. So that's kind of like where my mind goes.
Before the event itself, I really look at every scenario. Like I get really obsessed and I go into all the details, but that's before the actual event. That's the time to like really get into the weeds of all the little things, everything that could go wrong and everything. And how am I going to feel when things go wrong? How do I want to respond when things go wrong? I think of every single possible point of failure and I want to wire how I'm going to respond to it. I want to precondition myself.
on a response that I'm gonna choose to have when that point, if that point happens in the actual event. If it doesn't, great, but at least when it happens, it doesn't catch me off guard. I'm not surprised by it. I'm not in panic mode, because I've already visualized and decided how I wanna respond to that moment when it comes. So that's what's helped me ⁓ during my labors. And I'm sure Todd, you do something similar with your visualization and things like that.
Eric Von Frohlich (12:59)
Thank ⁓
TODD VOGT (13:13)
Yeah.
I think you hit on two key points like before race day. I mean, first thing, you've got to do the work. You've to be prepared. You can't fake your way through it at some level, right? You know, if you haven't done the records at work, you know, even if you're, even if you have a great strategy or mindset, you know, if you haven't done a certain level of work, it's just, you have to put in the work. You have to be physically and mentally prepared. And then like you said, you have to have strategy on race day, you know, and just stick to the strategy. maybe things need to change here and there, you know, you have a plan.
that you try to adhere to and that helps deal with like race day nerves, especially before the event. So, yeah.
Michael (13:47)
Yeah, exactly.
I want to touch on that a little bit. I think that's a common misconception with when people talk about your mental, like mental toughness during a race day or, you know, they think it's like mental toughness is this thing where you just put out the push through everything and you have to ignore the pain. It's really not about ignoring the pain or just having to push through everything. It's more adaptability, being able to adapt those moments come.
is being able to discern between pain and an injury between, you're experiencing pain and then there's injury in the moment though, to be able to do that. So I think that is also something as well because, you know, going back to, you know, my dad with the Parkinson's, he was very adaptable. It's not that he didn't experience pain and frustration and plans changed all the time with them, depending on how severe the symptoms were on any given day, but he was very adaptable when those moments came.
So from the outside looking in, he didn't seem fazed by it. know internally he was probably, you know, having a conversation and a battle within himself, but I think just being very learning to be adaptable in the moment is very important for getting through that battle and getting through that moment. Um, if when you're going through it, whether it's race day or whether it's whether it's life.
TODD VOGT (15:05)
Yeah, like what you said about the voices in your head. I think that's the thing I always tried to do on race day and in preparation was like, you're gonna have that voice in head on race day or even on training day that says like, man, my back is hurting today. I just don't feel like I have it today. had a couple of strategies. First strategy I always had was like,
I tell myself, you've done the work. You've done 4x1000 meters last week. You did 8x500 meters the week before. You put in 15 hours on the rolling machine every week. So you can just tell yourself, you're ready for this. You are physically prepared. You can do this. then that's like, even then
Michael (15:36)
Mm.
TODD VOGT (15:40)
once the event starts, when you start to feel the fatigue or the burn, it's like, just stick to the plan. You got this. You are ready for this. You've done the work. Because the voice is going to pop up in your head that says like,
Like I said, man, your legs are burning way too early. This pace is too fast, you know? Maybe today just not, it's not gonna happen today, you know? Those voices are gonna pop up, so you gotta be ready for it, you know? ⁓
Eric Von Frohlich (16:00)
You can negotiate
Michael (16:00)
Yeah, exactly.
Eric Von Frohlich (16:02)
with it as well at certain points, you know, contemplate whether I'm going to stop after the next rep and keep pushing so that you feel like you can just take one step at a time and focus on those micro goals.
Michael (16:08)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (16:15)
makes a big difference in your strategies. As you said earlier, looking at the overall picture is just too overwhelming. So you got to get into living in the
Michael (16:21)
.
Absolutely.
TODD VOGT (16:24)
Yeah, I would sometimes
Michael (16:25)
Yeah.
TODD VOGT (16:26)
during races say like or time trials on the rowing machine be saying myself like when it was really hurting like, okay, just stay right here at this pace, whatever it is safe 138 pace for 500 meters like your split pace. I'd say just like, stay here, stay here, you can do this, stay here, stay on this pace. That's your only goal for the next 200 meters to sit on this pace. And that you know, don't think about trying to that you're gonna have to sprint for the last couple hundred meters. Like just think about your goal is just stay at 138 right now because you're right there. That's your goal.
Michael (16:44)
Mm.
Right.
TODD VOGT (16:53)
So like you said, it keeps you in the moment, doesn't let you start thinking ahead. Which I can imagine
that like some of these events which are super long, you're thinking to yourself, how am gonna do this for another 12
Michael (17:03)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's very important to have that mindset and to have that voice that overrides the voice, because that initial voice that tells you to stop and quit, if you don't have a strategy for that, or if you don't have a counter voice or words of affirmation or things that will counter that, you know, that voice that tells you to quit is a very convincing voice. It's, it's, it's insidious. It leans at you. And if that voice was being spoken out loud, if a friend was telling you what you're telling to yourself in that moment,
⁓ You know, you probably get a bunch of people to agree with it. It's a completely logical and rational voice. It makes complete sense to quit right now. You're redlining.
Eric Von Frohlich (17:40)
Yeah, but you'd punch
him in the face if he was saying that to you.
TODD VOGT (17:43)
Yeah, it knows all your weaknesses too. It's one of the most interesting ones that you did was the ice bath did you feel during that thing? Like in your mind too, you
Michael (17:44)
Exactly.
ice bath was basically I sat in a tub of ice from the neck down and for two hours and 40 minutes to suppress the longest full body immersion in ice. think prior to that Wim Hof I think had the record and another gentleman I think from Poland had the record. But that labor was, I it was my seventh labor and it was different from the rest.
because it was the first labor that I didn't rely on my physicality. It was a really mental labor. And yeah, it was, I just had to sit there and endure, right? It was just a mental, a purely mental battle. If you look at the labors before that, you know, I pulled the truck across Death Valley. I did the 13 mile tire flip, 250 pound tire flip, 13 miles. I climbed the rope for the height of Everest, 29,029 feet in 27 hours.
TODD VOGT (18:19)
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. So yeah.
Michael (18:43)
all relied very much on my physicality with the mental as well. But with the ice bath, I just had to sit there and breathe and endure and make a choice minute by minute to just stay. I could have ended that labor. All I had to do was stand up and it would be done. The pain would be done. The suffering would be done. Just one motion, stand up. So to sit there for two hours and 40 minutes really took a lot of mental ⁓ kind of resilience. Resilience is a skill that I think can be trained.
seen people actually build resilience through training. So I really wanted to put that to the test with the ice challenge.
TODD VOGT (19:18)
you prepare for that one? You just sit in an ice bath longer and longer and longer every day or whatever?
Michael (19:23)
Yeah,
you know, I took cold showers. I sat, I did sit in some ice. And honestly, the bulk of that training was just working on my breathing. I use this technique called Tummo meditation, Tummo breathing. Tibetan monks use this strategy to kind of dry clothes, wet clothes on their back. And they just use it through like meditation and a form of breathing that kind of generates body heat. ⁓
Eric Von Frohlich (19:44)
Thank
TODD VOGT (19:47)
Yeah, they
sit in the ice and they like, know, melt the ice around them or or the snow.
Michael (19:49)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah, it works. Or at least it worked for me. So I thought that was pretty cool to kind of put that to the test on something like that. So yeah, just my breath control and just building that tolerance over time. I didn't train that long for that one. That was probably the shortest training block I've done for our labor. It about three months. so yeah, that one was one of my favorite labors as well.
TODD VOGT (20:14)
What was the previous record before that?
Michael (20:17)
I did two hours and 40 minutes. I think the previous record was two hours and 31 minutes or might have been two hours and 30 minutes I wanted to go for three hours, but yeah, towards the end there, my heart rate really shot through the roof and I got a little concerned. Yeah, I was sitting there stationary, not moving in my heart rate got up to like 190 plus up into 200. So it just my heart just started beating really fast.
TODD VOGT (20:33)
Really?
Eric Von Frohlich (20:42)
Wow.
Michael (20:44)
all of a sudden towards the end and I decided to call it
TODD VOGT (20:47)
was expecting you to
Michael (20:48)
Right? Yeah.
My body temperature was also going up too.
TODD VOGT (20:53)
That's wild, that's pretty wild, looking through your Instagram a couple days ago and I saw one of you doing lunges and that looked pretty challenging. You did like several miles of lunges or something like that,
Michael (21:03)
Yeah, four miles over four miles of lunges, 7,000 over 7,000 lunges over a 24 hour period. That one was I think the toughest one. I would say would be the probably the tire flip only because the emotional weight I was carrying with that one. I did it the day after my my dad passed away, so his health had declined during my training for that labor.
and then he passed the day before I actually did the, did that labor. So I think that when having to, making the choice to still continue on with that and just kind of carrying that initial weight of that all. And, know, he was kind of like a big, such a big part in why I even started this journey. it took a lot for me to get through that one, just emotionally, and mentally, I mean, I knew my body, I know what my body is capable of. but it's always just.
synching the mind with the body is usually the toughest part, just getting in the right mindset. So
Eric Von Frohlich (22:00)
You
said your dad had Parkinson's from as early as you could remember, so he basically had it most of your life, I take it.
Michael (22:07)
He did. He did. Yeah. I remember the earliest memories would be, you know, him, you know, going to the bank with him and him, you know, having a hard time just signing his checks at the bank is my earliest memories. And, you know, I would, I would remember, you know, just being in line with him at the bank and, know, he would, he would have the tremors and I would just hear people murmuring and whispering, know, people being impatient and, know, they, they don't understand what was really happening. And they were just.
people going about their day and I would just, know, my dad would get to the teller and then he would have trouble, he would have to go through several checks just to get the signature and the numbers on their right, try again and then people, you know, murmuring in the background. And then we would get in the car and you know, I would get frustrated for him because he wouldn't respond to it. He would just, you he always had a smile on his face. I could tell he was frustrated. He would grab his own hand like that. And I would say, you know, dad, why don't you say anything? Why don't you?
Eric Von Frohlich (23:02)
Alright.
Michael (23:05)
You hear these people talking about you and, you know, why don't you say something or do anything? And, and that's where I really saw that, you know, the strength that he showed there wasn't about like lifting heavy things. wasn't about like strength as a man, at least to me in that moment, wasn't about physical. I saw for the first time that it was really a mental strength about, you know, it was about how you respond when life gets heavy versus how you, how heavy of things you can lift. You know what I mean?
So.
Eric Von Frohlich (23:34)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, certainly
you learn acceptance in those moments. And I think that that's one of the greatest builders of strength is when you get to that point where, you know, it's a serenity prayer. God grant me the wisdom to understand the things I can change and the things I can't and the wisdom to know the difference as I massacred the serenity prayer.
Michael (23:38)
Sure, 100%.
That's sure.
Eric Von Frohlich (23:57)
Well, I actually have to read it today. I'm having a Parkinson's moment. I'm sorry, boys. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference between the two.
Michael (24:02)
know what you're talking about, I've heard that.
Yes.
Eric Von Frohlich (24:11)
were there moments in your childhood or different stages of your childhood where you learned different lessons? I mean, I'm sure you did, but have you actually stopped and think about that when you're going through these challenges about what you took away from different?
times within your childhood to your development as a young man.
Michael (24:30)
Yeah, you every day, you know, he was, my dad didn't talk a lot about mental toughness. He just kind of lived it and let me watch him live it. And, you know, I took all those lessons, even going into my high school years. by then, by the time I was in high school, disease had, it had progressed quite, quite a bit. He was in late stage Parkinson's by then. And, you know, as a 14, 15 year old, it was just me and him living together.
and I was, you know, effectively a caretaker for him and he had other things that compounded the effects of Parkinson's, other health issues, different forms of cancers. And he had suffered a stroke and, a heart attack by then. So those things just kind of compounded everything. me now being in a role where I am having to, you know, make sure that he's fed and shaved and taking his medication and remembering the things and
Eric Von Frohlich (25:18)
and education and the other things
Michael (25:20)
moving around, he kind of lost his ability to drive. And me as a freshman in high school having to have
Eric Von Frohlich (25:20)
that we need to accomplish. So I'm to here and just kind show you what our current times are like.
Michael (25:28)
that level of patience and understanding and responsibility, really. At the same time, I'm trying to make it to practice for sports and trying to live my life and progress as a young man myself. All of those things, I think the lessons I learned prior to that growing up made me who I am in that moment and in even
Eric Von Frohlich (25:33)
Thank ⁓
Michael (25:48)
moving forward into my military career and even the things that I do now.
Eric Von Frohlich (25:53)
a tremendous amount for your ability to have taken on that type of responsibility at such a young age. It's really remarkable. No doubt it's made you who you are as a person. So I applaud you on that. There's not many kids who can handle their parents going through something like that and then step up and actually be a caretaker. So it's a great example. Thank you.
TODD VOGT (26:19)
You have kids now, right? Don't you have kids?
Michael (26:19)
Thank you. I have a son. Yeah,
I have a son now. He's just turned four. His name is a junior. He's a little Mikey. And yeah, everything that I've learned from my dad and everything that I do now with the labors is I do to set an example for him, for him to see and hopefully internalize that and develop as a young man himself. So absolutely. You talked about the lunges I did. I did that labor specifically as of a
a lesson for him. him out there with me. It was the first labor that I did since having my son. you know, I'm a full-time, I'm a single dad, I'm a full-time single dad. I do the things that I do show that there are no excuses. are no, you can still do the things that you want to pursue in life if you have a strong enough purpose, if you have a strong enough mindset, the right mindset. And, ⁓ you know, if you really want it, you can do it.
So I do these things to kind of set that example and teach him those principles that was shown to me by my dad.
TODD VOGT (27:24)
Yeah, I remember reading, that in your Instagram post. So yeah, that's super cool.
Eric Von Frohlich (27:29)
what's the next labor?
Michael (27:31)
You know, yeah, I just finished this my ninth labor that was the lunges did back in October I've been taking I'm in a period of kind of recovery right now You know how it is after a big training block. I trained about seven or eight months for that last labor So I'm still my body's still settling in I'm still staying pretty active. I have a couple of ideas for a labor that I've been kicking around in my head
Eric Von Frohlich (27:44)
Yeah.
Michael (27:56)
I'll probably be announcing here pretty soon. But for me, I don't know if it's a superstition thing, but I try not to speak about the labor until I've really set my mind and confirmed it in my head and kind of said, okay, this is what's gonna be it. So I kind of like, I let it develop and I let it evolve within myself. And if it feels right, I'll go ahead and put it out there, but.
I've always been like that with my labors. You know, I always go through a period of recovery. Sometimes it takes a couple of months. Sometimes it's taken me even a couple of years. But once my mind, once I make the decision to do the labor, I put it out there into the universe. I speak it and then it's going to get done. So I'm still in that pre period where I'm still kind of recovering and deciding on which route I'm going to go with it.
TODD VOGT (28:47)
understand how you feeling with that. Like maybe a couple stories here like myself personally I feel the same way like talk is cheap, you know, so when you when you say something you wanted to be you want to be Real you don't want to you know say like well I'm gonna run a marathon next fall what and you're just sort of wishy-washy about it
Eric Von Frohlich (28:47)
⁓ it works.
TODD VOGT (29:03)
You have to be honest with yourself as well, know, and say like, this is what I want to do. I'm going to do this in the fall. And then everything sort of falls into place. It's like chicken and egg a little bit, you know?
Michael (29:13)
Yeah, yeah. as you get older too, as your body just changes as an athlete, there's, just coming to terms with that as well as, you know, being realistic and truthful with yourself. what am I capable of now? Which I wasn't, you know, five, 10, you know, 10 years ago. And so it's kind of seeing now like where, you know, okay, is this, is this just a recovery thing I need to start focusing on? Or is there an actual physical limitation here?
what's happening with my body as I start to get older as well. So yeah, all of those things factor into what the next labor is.
Eric Von Frohlich (29:48)
Yeah, I can relate to putting it into the universe before it's fully baked because if you're not totally committed to it then you have people try to talk you out of it and kind of tell you why you can't do it and you have to, you know, kind of avoid that as much as possible when you're dreaming and coming up with these amazing goals.
Michael (30:06)
Yeah.
Well, the thing to Eric with that is, you know, when you put when you speak something, a goal, especially a really ambitious goal out there and you put it out there, people, what are people what are most people going to do if they support you, if they like you, friends and family, what are they going to do if you say, hey, I want to go run? Well, you say, I want to go run a marathon. They might try. Some people might try to protect you, but most people will say, hey, that's awesome. They'll say, And what happens when they say
Eric Von Frohlich (30:22)
You're try to protect you.
TODD VOGT (30:30)
Yeah. Yes, well.
Michael (30:35)
Hey, that's awesome. yeah, you should definitely do it. Or ⁓ you're going to crush it. Or that's really great. It's like a little dopamine hit. So you're getting the reward for the thing without having done the thing. So I don't want the reward. don't want those mini dopamine hits until I've done the thing. You know what I mean? So I try not to put it out there too early because people are going to flood and say,
Eric Von Frohlich (30:44)
Yeah.
before.
That's a great way to look at it.
Michael (31:02)
Oh, that's awesome. You got this. You're going to do it. You're going to crush. Yeah, great. And I'm just like, OK, yeah, it feels good. It feels good to hear those things. But it's like I'm getting a reward for something I didn't even do yet in my mind. So yeah.
TODD VOGT (31:13)
Yeah. Okay,
slight tangent here. So I'm like fully immersed in the rowing world. I was like the elite rower, Paralympic row, whatever. Then I coached before that for good 10, 15 years of rowing. I'm fully immersed in the rowing world. But this happens every Olympics. I've seen this happen like several times. Somebody who,
Say it was a halfway decent collegiate rower, hasn't really rown, it's in college. They'll put it out on whatever. Said person put it out on Facebook. I'm gonna train to make the Olympic team in 2012. And they put this out there when, I mean, that's an ambitious goal, but they were not even training at that point. ⁓
Michael (31:49)
Yes.
TODD VOGT (31:50)
It was a crazy
idea that they put out on Facebook and just like you said, I would shake my one other friend who, my other rowing acquaintance, we'd see this and we'd like chuckle to ourselves. like, this person's serious? Because first thing that happened is that they would get a flood of responses on there. You're so brave, you're so awesome, you got this. Fine, I don't want to pee on anybody's dreams. I've been there before, I understand. But inevitably like, okay, eight months later, the person would put out like,
Michael (32:08)
Yeah.
TODD VOGT (32:20)
I'm postponing my Olympic dreams because
Eric Von Frohlich (32:20)
.
TODD VOGT (32:22)
I got a job at whatever, at Lockheed Martin or Goldman Sachs. So you're like, all right, inevitably that's what happened. It's not surprise. I guess the point of this is like, I've seen this happen from the other perspective just to get, like you were saying, just to get that little like dopamine hit.
Michael (32:24)
Okay.
Eric Von Frohlich (32:25)
Ha
ha ha
Michael (32:27)
Done. .
Eric Von Frohlich (32:28)
Okay. ⁓ Okay.
Michael (32:35)
Yes.
Yeah, and then it crashes and then all the encouragement and all those, you know, it dies away. And now you're just left with what you all that external motivation
TODD VOGT (32:38)
Okay.
Michael (32:46)
is gone. And you're like, it's easy to quit. No one's watching anymore. No one really cares anymore. yeah.
TODD VOGT (32:47)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (32:49)
and I'm just to be here this morning.
TODD VOGT (32:50)
Exactly.
The day to day reality of the challenge becomes real apparent. Let's use this rowing world example real clearly. To make the Olympic team as an open weight, able-bodied rower, not the Paralympics, just using the rowing machine, you've got to be going at least six minutes for 2,000 meters on the rowing machine, which is an incredible feat of physiology.
Eric Von Frohlich (32:53)
I'm to here this morning.
TODD VOGT (33:09)
But that's like the bare minimum. Like if you want to make a boat that had actually make an A final in the Olympics, it probably has a shot at a medal at the Olympics. You gotta go maybe like 550, maybe even sub-550, which is incredible. So, you know, let's say you're a former collegiate row and you're going 640 or even 630 on the ergometer. The difference between 630 in six minutes is like astronomical, you know? So when reality starts to punch you in the face and you're tired and hungry and you still have like
Eric Von Frohlich (33:22)
Okay. Okay.
Michael (33:31)
Yeah. Right.
TODD VOGT (33:39)
you realize it's gonna take like an inordinate amount of training and
yeah, then you're like this, dream is dead. I don't know, I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm saying, I'm doing this on a first hand basis, you know, so.
Eric Von Frohlich (33:46)
Hahaha
Michael (33:47)
Yeah, it's true. It's true,
Yeah, that's the that's the reality of it. And that's the reality of most goals that people unfortunately, that's the reality of most big, ambitious goals that people put out there is once it starts getting hard and once the reality sets in the actual effort it's going to take and where once that first little injury starts to show up or whatever it is that first setback, they put all their eggs in that external basket of motivation and they weren't really truly internally motivated to do it. They just wanted the the
TODD VOGT (34:01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Michael (34:17)
dopamine hit they wanted the reward before the accomplishment.
TODD VOGT (34:20)
Yeah,
on the flip side, okay, one last story from my perspective. This is a cool book too. We were talking, Eric, about rowing books and things like that. There's a guy named Jeremiah Brown. Jerry, he goes by Jerry. Like, he's a Canadian. He decided, he was a football player actually. He was a tight end. He was like six, five, 300 pounds. He was a football player in college, but he knew about rowing through like his family. So he decided in 2008.
Eric Von Frohlich (34:36)
Thank you.
TODD VOGT (34:43)
that after he graduated from college, I think it was 2008, he, 2007 or eight, he wanted to go to the Olympics in 2012. So he was like looking at the sports and he decided rowing was going to be his best option probably to do it. So he got, you know, got moved out to Victoria, Victoria over near you. That's where the Canadian team trained on Elk Lake there. So he decided like, so he moves out to Victoria. They won't even let him in the doors of the club initially because he like, he was just, he never rowed before. So he got on a rowing machine.
Michael (35:00)
Yep.
TODD VOGT (35:12)
He clearly had some speed on the rowing machine. I think it went 620 for his first 2K, which is incredible. But he was
Eric Von Frohlich (35:16)
Wow.
TODD VOGT (35:17)
a big dude. He was like 6'5", 6'6", like 300 pounds. So he's going to have to lose some weight too. So anyways, like he actually pulled it off. But even for him, it was like incredible. Like the beginning was, was really daunting. Like he has clearly had like physiology, but they wouldn't let him into the national team training camp. So he just got a job, joined a local rowing club.
Michael (35:27)
All
Eric Von Frohlich (35:35)
you
TODD VOGT (35:37)
just started training into one person boat. And he said at first he would just flip every day over and over in the boat, you know? When he stuck to it and eventually after maybe six months or so, he got invited to the national team camp and he was the bottom guy in the national team, slowly made his way up through the hierarchy. And he made it in the Canadian men's eight that won a silver medal at the London Olympics. Like he actually pulled this crazy dream and pulled it off. Anyways, his book is called Four Year Olympian. It's really short. It's only like 120 pages long. It's awesome.
Michael (35:43)
Mm-hmm.
Eric Von Frohlich (35:47)
Thank
Michael (36:00)
I love it. I love it.
Eric Von Frohlich (36:06)
Thank
TODD VOGT (36:07)
Yeah, so it can be good. Yeah.
Michael (36:09)
I love stories like that. ⁓
TODD VOGT (36:11)
absolutely. He pulled it off. You know what I mean? Like he had this crazy dream and follow through and pulled it off, but it's not easy to do. I mean, he had a lot working for him in that he had the physiological capability, like he had the physical raw physical tools he knew about rowing and, you know, had a little bit of support system. So yeah, and can be huge things can be done as obviously looking at you, you know.
Michael (36:24)
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right, Todd, well, maybe I'll see you in 28. Is the next one 28?
Eric Von Frohlich (36:34)
You
TODD VOGT (36:37)
Yeah, exactly.
about some of cool things and some of my training buddies in rowing about some of the stuff you did with Colin, So yeah, why don't you talk about that project too that he did and how you were coaching him and whatnot.
Michael (36:46)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I coached Colin for several projects. so Colin Brady, also an endurance athlete. has a background in professional triathlon and he, he's now a kind of an explorer. He does these Arctic expeditions, polar expeditions rather in Antarctica. And in 2018, I trained him to be the first solo unsupported crossing of Antarctica.
and then after that, we, trained to a row. was a rowing expedition that he did from across Drake's passage. That was 2019. And then, uh, did that with a team, set some records there. And then he, most recently completed another, another hundred day trek, solo trek in Antarctica from the ice shelf in Antarctica. So was a little bit further distance.
Eric Von Frohlich (37:25)
Bye.
Michael (37:43)
this time's and he just completed that and came back from that. So Colin's an incredible yeah, a lot of the things that we talked about today, far as adaptability and resilience and having that, you know, shrink the battlefield one, one day at a time. he really embodies those things, to a whole different level. and so, yeah, it was, it was really great working with him as an athlete. We're, we're, we're really great friends and, yeah, I have nothing but good things to say about Colin.
TODD VOGT (38:11)
I want to go back to something I think Eric asked us. Sorry if I'm being repetitive, but what you know, you're talking about having a plan and you know focusing on the day to day. What do you do? Like what do you what's your what's your process or what do do when you're having a bad day? Like say you wake up, know, and you're supposed to train but and your legs are just killing you or something, you know, or you just you don't have any energy maybe like you were playing with your son or something like that and you got no sleep, you know, like what do you do in those days? How do get through those days? How do you persevere?
Eric Von Frohlich (38:22)
Thank
Michael (38:35)
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, I've got to go back to the old man and what he did. Because I saw him have bad days all the time. and every time he would have a bad day, he would... He found a way to show up anyway. It's not like he didn't have bad days. He had bad days. I had bad days all the time in training, especially the volume and intensity that these type of things require.
Eric Von Frohlich (39:02)
Thank you.
Michael (39:04)
You're going to have bad days. It's
inevitable, but it's how you show up. it's like, you know, you show up tired and you show up hungry. You show up, you're not at a hundred percent. The expectation isn't to be at a hundred percent every single day. But what I do is, ⁓ My mind goes to, okay, what can I do? What it's not about what, what can't I do because I'm having a bad day. I started to, okay, I'm not a hundred percent today. What can I do to move the needle forward? Maybe 1%. Maybe it's just a mo maybe it's just a mobility day.
Eric Von Frohlich (39:17)
you
TODD VOGT (39:21)
Yes.
Absolutely.
Michael (39:34)
Maybe I'll get in there and just drill or maybe I'll just do some, you know, volume, something. I'll do something that in the grand scheme of things, it's not a big jump forward. It's not a big check in the training log, but it's something that at least mentally moved the needle forward, maybe 1%, half a percent. It doesn't matter. I'll go and do something. It's when I choose not to, when I just choose to stay in bed. Obviously if you're really injured or you know, you gotta be smart. You gotta be...
TODD VOGT (40:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Michael (40:02)
That's what comes with time. you
Eric Von Frohlich (40:03)
Thank
Michael (40:04)
know, when I choose to like, okay, but the thing is, you know the truth. You know the truth. You have to look in the mirror. You could convince a bunch of other people and say, you know, I'm hurt. I got this injury. I'm sick. I'm this and that. And they're going to believe you. They're going to say, yeah, stay home, whatever. But when you look in the mirror, you know the truth. You know that you're really not going in and getting work done because you might be a little scared or you might be feeling a little lazy that day or you're just like not, you know, whatever it is.
Eric Von Frohlich (40:29)
Thank
Michael (40:31)
The real reason is you have
to look yourself in the mirror and you know the truth. Even if you have the rest of the world convinced. So I make it a point, I look in the mirror and I look myself in the face and I have this honest conversation with myself and I say, hey, I'm not 100 % today. I'm a little under the weather or I'm a little sore or I'm a little tired. Okay. What is the choice am I going to make? I can go in there and do something that's going to move the needle 1 % or I could choose to just stay here. And then I got to live with it.
So whatever that is, whatever that conversation that you have with yourself, you just gotta be able to like, can you live with that? If you can, okay. You know, great, good on you. For me, I just, I've never been able to live with that. was like, okay, I gotta go and do something. I've gotta go in and do something. Why? Because my dad always did something. He showed up every single day. I watched him every single day do something to move that needle forward. Even though the Parkinson's was taking from him every single day, he did something to counter that even if it was 1%.
Eric Von Frohlich (41:26)
and start aging.
Michael (41:28)
Even if he got up and went for a one walk around the block and that's all he could do for that day. He went and did it. He might've stumbled. It might've took him like an hour or two to just get that one block done, but he went and did it. yeah, that's something I took from him and I've always tried to apply to things in my life. Obviously there's times where you just gotta be smart and sometimes the best thing is to just recover and not train or whatever. But for me, there's something I can do.
⁓ I can go in there, can get on the bike or I can go in there and I could just do mobility. I can go in there and you know, I'll do some, I'll usually just do something even if I'm having a bad day.
TODD VOGT (42:08)
love that, yeah. I mean, that's what a lot of times I would say to myself, like, just make some sort of progress today, you know? Whether, you know, hopefully some days you make a lot of progress and you have a breakthrough, but, you know, some days when you're feeling terrible or whatever or the weather's bad, just...
Eric Von Frohlich (42:20)
Yeah, but that's
all mental training for those obstacles you overcome within your events. That negative voice is someone you've negotiated with before it shows up in an event.
TODD VOGT (42:26)
Yeah, for sure.
Michael (42:26)
Sure,
100%.
Eric Von Frohlich (42:34)
So it's super important to do that and to control what you can control.
Michael (42:35)
Absolutely.
Yes, yeah, that's very important. Very important.
Eric Von Frohlich (42:42)
It's
super inspiring. So when's the book coming out?
Michael (42:47)
The book. Yeah, know, books, man, the books been in the works for for quite for a couple of years now. I've been prioritizing getting these labors done. definitely on my list of things I do want to get done within the next year or two. But right now, my I'm in the end phase of these of these labors. So I've been trying to really focus on, you know, getting my mind and body right to kind of close out this chapter strong.
Finish strong.
Eric Von Frohlich (43:13)
Are you thankful
that Hercules only had 12 challenges?
Michael (43:17)
Yeah, yeah, I mean it didn't end too well for the actual Hercules at the end So hopefully, you know might have a happy happier ending and doesn't end in tragedy like like his did but I think from the core of the story though I feel like I followed I've stayed true to
Eric Von Frohlich (43:24)
Ready?
TODD VOGT (43:34)
Is that you can do 13 just so you can do one more than Hercules, you know? Exactly.
Michael (43:36)
What up, Hercules?
I don't know how the Greeks will feel about that if I did that, so I don't want to offend anyone.
TODD VOGT (43:44)
I have another question for you actually. just thought of it. This is I wondered before. Do you ever, do you just train by yourself or do you have like an explicit coach or do you have training partners or anybody who works out with you?
Michael (43:53)
You know, for most of these, most of my labors I've trained, I've just trained on my own by myself. But I think I'm thinking like for this, for the next labor, it's just ideas and thought process for the next labor. You know, I want to do something. I always try to choose a labor where I have very little to no kind of experience in, and I need to start from scratch. Like something that I'm kind of going into it as a beginner. I think for the next labor or
couple of labors from now, I'll probably be getting some coaching be able the skills needed to be able to do pull off some of these things. So I'm not opposed to coaching. It's just the things that I've done, I've usually been able to just make a plan and strategy and kind of do it all my own. I'm a coach myself. I think it's important for even coaches to have a coach, you know, when doing things to kind of, you know, give you that other perspective and structure that you need. I just haven't.
TODD VOGT (44:41)
Absolutely.
Eric Von Frohlich (44:46)
Okay. Okay.
TODD VOGT (44:48)
I often have like what I say in my head, like there's like Rower Todd brain, then there's Coach Todd brain. Sometimes I have the one talk to the other, like, you know, I'm saying like, like if you're, maybe if I have like a light injury or something like that, or I'm like slightly sick, I'm like, what would, if I was like Coach Todd, if an athlete came to me and described what was going on with them, what would I say? know? Cause Rower Todd is like, screw, just go through it, just bash it through it, you know? And then you end up with rib injury and you're off for six weeks. But Coach Todd might be like, just ride the bike for today. So.
Michael (45:06)
Right, yeah.
TODD VOGT (45:15)
The other thing I was going to mention is like, least for me sometimes, I think what I've done over the past, like at particular times is I had a good group of like teammates and training partners, which is good. Like if you have somebody showing up every day who's also going to row with you, kind of hard to like be like, I'm too tired to go today, even though, you know, your partner's there and ready to go, you know?
Michael (45:15)
Yeah.
Eric Von Frohlich (45:20)
Thank Thank
Michael (45:35)
That's so important. I'm really glad you said that is like community
is such an important thing as an athlete you got to have the right people around you, whether that's teammates, whether that's coaches, whether it's family friends. It's so important to have that community. I've trained, try to do it alone and train is and then I've done it with an actual team, you know, with the team of like people who support and just to have that strong community makes a world of difference.
I think that's true even in the Parkinson's community, having that community, the advocacy, the people that are there to support is super important. And I've seen it make a world of difference in people's lives. So I think community is so important. You hit the nail on the head right
TODD VOGT (46:15)
Yeah, you can feed off their energy, know, or whatever. can use them to inspire you, motivate you, know, push you, whatever you need, you know.
Michael (46:21)
Yeah, absolutely.
Eric Von Frohlich (46:23)
So what's the next lesson you're going to learn? Do you have an insight on what you're working on, or is it kind of come out in the training and just develops as you go through it?
Michael (46:35)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think part of the journey is kind of taking it day by day and learning the lessons as you go. You know, I try not to set the expectations too high. I think Todd, you tapped into this a little bit earlier, but it's about like staying present, just being present in the process is having the big goal and having the outcome that you want. But also just it's important for me to just stay present. So that way, whatever lesson happens to come up, it's not being met with
this preconceived idea or resistance that I would have if I had this great expectation of what I think should happen. me, it's a practice in staying present, staying mindful, listening to my body. As I start to move more and kind of get back into a training cycle, I'm starting to notice little things here and there. Okay, huh, that's new. What does that mean? I just need to like sit with this for a little bit, slow things down.
I'm not as young and I'm not as spring chicken as I was before. I can't bounce back as quickly from these little things. So it's important for me to kind of slow it, slow down and really see what's happening, which is new for me at this phase in my life and as an athlete. So I'm 39, I'll be 40 in January. So it's kind of that point where it's like, okay, these are new things that are happening with my body and that are different than before.
Eric Von Frohlich (47:44)
How old are you, Mike?
Michael (47:57)
It's just a beautiful thing to kind of experience that and just to be in touch with, know, in tune with your body and, you know, and it's opened a whole new door of just gratitude grace for myself. You know, I put my body through so much, know, Todd, you've put your body through so much, but it's still strong. It's, still able to do things that I love is still carrying me and allowing me to, you know, be there for my son and to also push myself and to do these things that, know, we're
People think are just impossible and it's open up this new channel just love for myself for my body and gratitude for all the things that I've had to put it through and it's still here today allowing me to you know fulfill my purpose in life so even with the with the injuries and the Changes and the adaptations I've had to make I still have come from a place of so much gratitude and grace for for myself with it
Eric Von Frohlich (48:54)
it's an incredible metaphor for the journey that you learned from your dad, that you've learned to implement all those lessons into your own life, despite Parkinson's. it's kind of remarkable to me that you've accrued all the wisdom of Parkinson's without having to personally experience it. I mean, you experience it as a caretaker.
So you've experienced it in a way that I haven't experienced it as well. But it's remarkable the gift that it gives you the challenges, it kind of gives you strength and resilience because you overcome those challenges.
Michael (49:31)
You know, I'm so I'm so inspired by, you know, athletes and just people in general who who live with Parkinson's. it doesn't matter like I've trained athletes with Parkinson's evolution at evolution. I taught that class there.
the Rock Steady boxing class. Over the years I've worked with athletes with Parkinson's and I'm just so inspired. I've never, not a single excuse, not a single ounce of quit. just, I think it's, don't know what it is about with people with Parkinson's in particular, but just the resilience is so high. It's unlike any other type of athlete I've trained.
as far as the, the will to fight. I think it's a shift that you don't see yourself as a patient. You're not a patient. You're, you're a fighter, it's a fighter's mentality. And it's, this is held true over the last 10, 15 years. I've been, you know, around people with Parkinson's, athletes with Parkinson's, not a single excuse, very high resilience, very positive self-talk. and it holds true throughout. I'm.
I think part of why I'm able to do the things I do is I'm so deeply inspired gentlemen like you and you know, like my dad and it's something that really motivates me. And I don't have Parkinson's, but I'm very moved and inspired and motivated to do the things that I do because of people like you and the millions of people with Parkinson's around the country.
Eric Von Frohlich (50:59)
Well, it's a beautiful, not that I want to summarize this or wrap this up by any means, but it's a beautiful way to kind of put an end cap on what you've learned in your own life and your experience with working with your dad and helping your dad and taking care of him and loving him. ⁓ It's remarkable that as challenging as Parkinson's has been for those of us that experience it directly or indirectly, does build resilience and does kind of
have a very positive effect on your development as a human being spiritually and emotionally. So it's something that as much as I wish we didn't have to endure it, it does give us gifts and ways to develop that we otherwise couldn't possibly have experienced in the one lifetime. So I'm thankful for that.
TODD VOGT (51:51)
No, that's I don't think I any I don't think I can add to that so yeah, I'm Parkinson's like maybe the only thing I'll say is like having Parkinson's is like every day life is a struggle. like you learn I guess you know it forces you to I mean, I suppose you can do whatever but it's either the options are like, you know Not get out of bed or just lay on the couch or day or you can try to like push through The difficulty of doing whatever you want to do whether it's go to the bank or go to the gym, know, so
Eric Von Frohlich (51:50)
Tyler, do you got anything else?
Well, thank you to both of you for being here. And I can't say enough about your journey, Mike. You're an inspiration for a whole new generation of people and obviously for your son. And I wish you the best of luck in your challenges. And the inspiration you're providing for the community is really appreciated.
TODD VOGT (52:35)
Yeah.
Michael (52:35)
Thank you so much. It was a real pleasure being here, having this chat with you guys.