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Join Dr. Kim Kutsch, the brilliant mind behind CariFree, as he explores the extraordinary lives of thought leaders in the dental industry, and beyond. Contrary to Ordinary explores further than dentistry - here we unravel the minds of change-makers, paradigm shifters, and world shakers.
Every two weeks, we dive into the stories of our remarkable guests—ordinary people who continually defy limits. Discover their tales of success, resilience, and self-awareness, and explore how they leverage these experiences not only to elevate dental practice and patient care but also to champion personal growth and entrepreneurship. Listen for captivating conversations with innovators who seamlessly blend art and technology, pursue curiosity, and create the truly extraordinary.
Contrary to Ordinary isn't your typical dentistry podcast—it's a vibrant community that's hit #1 in ‘Entrepreneurship,’ #3 in ‘Business,’ and #21 in ‘All Podcasts’ for a reason. We've had the pleasure of hosting inspiring guests like innovators, dental leaders, pioneering inventors, and artists, including Angus Walls, Machell Hudson, Dr. Simon McDonald, Dr. Bobby Birdi, Rella Christensen, Professor Phillip D. Marsh, Carmen Ohling, John Kois, Dr. Susan Maples, Doug Young, Colt Idol, Stephanie Staples, and many more who've graced our mic.
Each episode isn't just a listen; it's a lesson in living an extraordinary life authentically, embracing rebellion, and nurturing leadership. We dive into diverse topics, from mentoring, coaching, personal development, and work-life balance to self-awareness, emotional intelligence, leadership, storytelling, altruism, and motivation. And yes, we also cover dentistry—exploring natural dentists, dental health, dental laboratories, oral care, oral surgery, dental hygiene, caries disease, brushing teeth, and overall tooth care.
Tune in to Contrary to Ordinary for a unique blend of wisdom that goes beyond the ordinary and resonates with all aspects of life! This podcast aims to empower you to be extraordinary in your dental practice and improve not just your dental care but your overall life!
Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share with us? Or perhaps a question for Dr. Kutsch. Contact us on our Instagram, Facebook or Twitter today.
About Our Host:
Meet Dr. Kim Kutsch: a retired dentist with 40 years of experience, prolific writer, thought leader, inventor, and researcher in dental caries and minimally invasive dentistry, brings his insatiable curiosity to the forefront. Eager to learn from those breaking boundaries in dentistry, particularly in preventative and non-invasive dentistry approaches, Dr. Kutsch launched the Contrary to Ordinary podcast. As a keen creative and curious mind, Dr. Kutsch extends his podcast guest list to artists, entrepreneurs, and fascinating minds who have piqued his interest. He wants to learn from them and see how he can be inspired by their extraordinary ways of living and adapt his learnings into his own life and his business, CariFree.
About CariFree:
CariFree is the new model for oral health and cavity prevention. Dr. Kutsch is the CEO and founder of this business. They create cutting-edge technology and science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, making it easy to banish cavities for good with preventive strategies over restorative procedures. Find out how dentists are using CariFree products to revolutionize their dental practices here: https://carifree.com/success-stories/.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I don't think he does one description for an extraordinary person. I do think an extraordinary person is somebody that has had challenges, that is very generous with their knowledge, that is never resting, and that isn't dogmatic, that is willing to change their opinion. That's an extraordinary person to me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
On Contrary to Ordinary, we explore the motivation, lives, and characters of innovators who see limitless potential around them. Through these conversations, we hope to provide insight into how you can emulate the mindsets of these extraordinary people in your own life and work. My name is Dr. Kim Kutsch and I spent over 20 years in dentistry before creating CariFree 20 years ago. We offer a range of dental products to the industry and the public that promote the health and wellness of people suffering from the disease of dental caries. This week I'm speaking to Dr. Sandra Hulac, the co-founder of Tam, Hulac & Partners, a cutting-edge interdisciplinary dental practice in Hong Kong. Sandra is also a published author and a clinical instructor at the Kois Center. In this episode, we dive into what it means to be a global citizen and business owner. We'll also get a rare inside look at how someone has accomplished as Sandra handles challenges, and even navigates through moments of self-doubt. If you've been listening to this show for a while, you know that one of the defining traits of extraordinary people is their commitment to lifelong learning. But Sandra believes there's a unique reason so many dentists stay on this path of continuous growth. Let's jump in with Sandra.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
We all know that this is a profession where you can become so frustrated and it's crushing. People don't really like us, they don't really respect us. Even at my university, they would say things like, "Oh, the hairdressers of medicine". "You're like the hairdressers of medicine, we are the real medics". And you get angry. And you still encountered this today when you try and tell your patients and educate them what kind of effect this has on their general health and you start quoting medical studies and they look at you like you're not even a real doctor, that is one of the frustrations. The other frustration is obviously when you do the same stuff again and again and again and it fails and you don't know why. I mean, that is why we have to continue to learn, to keep us up to date, to find the rationale, to be with it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. I think that people from the outside don't understand or don't appreciate how difficult and challenging dentistry is.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Oh, absolutely.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I mean, it's mentally challenging because you're on all day.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It's not like you get a 30-minute break or you can daydream for five minutes, you're on. When you're with a patient, you have to be fully present. And you're fully present for one patient after another, after another. Maybe have two or three patients in the middle of different procedures at the same time. So mentally and physically, it's tiring on the body.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Oh, it's completely draining. I find now I'm turning 58, say even four or five years ago, I could work two four hour cases back to back with a cup of coffee in between and be fine. And today I'm like, "Oh my God, just book me one patient, after that I have to go and lay down".
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think too, that a lot of dentists suffer from is you hear this all day long, "No offense, doc, but I hate"-
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I don't like you, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. But I hate dentists. And I hate this. I hate that. And I think what your subconscious mind hears at some point is, I hate you.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah. And it's not the subconscious mind, it's like there's so much animosity directed towards us. I try and do it differently. You have to be careful with patients you can do this with. But just at some stage when this kind of stuff goes on, I just tend to take the piss out of people. And you have to laugh about these situations.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
You just did something, you put your heart and soul in it. It took four hours, and the first thing they say like, "Oh my God, I'm so tired now. This was just terrible". And I will then go, "Well, thank God it was so easy for me. It was just like a walk in the park".
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think it's, Sandra, because we are so passionate about what we do. That passion has kind of a double-edged sword, and you are extremely passionate just as a person. And I think that that passion also then, if a treatment doesn't go like we expected or if a patient's disappointed and you have so much passion invested in that, it hurts.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
But on the same side, when it goes really well, I mean, you feel so good. Otherwise you would quit doing it, right?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so I think it's that passion causes some of our nightmares, but at the same point in time it also brings our greatest joy as a restorative dentist.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Because I think nobody starts out and says, I want to be a really bad dentist. Nobody does that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Or I want to be average.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I want to be totally average at this. Okay, I'm going to be super bad and I'm just doing this for the money. I have never met a dentist like that. But I have met a lot of frustrated dentists because they're so passionate and they have constant disappointments. And I think the key to just being passionate and have not that much disappointment is continuing education.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We're learning, we're getting better all the time. So, Sandra, when I think of you I think of you as you're a citizen of the world. I mean, that's how I would describe you in a loving way. In a good way. So you were in London for nine years?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I was in London for nine years.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I can't imagine working in the NHS.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I got out of it at some stage after six months at the Bow Dental Surgery. I took myself to an interview with my then second boss, Tony Zimmerman, who had a mixed practice in North London in Tuneful Park, but also had rooms in Harley Street. So we still were doing NHS, but we were doing a lot more private. And then finally in my last two years, I opened a private practice, had a private room in a medical center that was owned by Bupa. And that was rather nice work because I was working solo and also with Tony and this practice, I kind of always thought that I was super good and super qualified, and it took me to my next move to find out that I actually wasn't all that good.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So where did you move to next then?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Okay, so I moved to Hong Kong in 2001 because my husband was posted there with his bank. And I remember I was like, I don't want to go. I've just finally got it all set up in Tower Hill, and I've got my little one. I just had a little daughter, I got her into a really nice nursery school. And it's all working so well for me, and do I really have to go? And then he took me to a go-see, so the bank flies you out and they show you basically how your life is going to be. And I'm like, okay, that might be nice. I hadn't planned on working because I didn't have a Hong Kong license, so I applied to go to university and do a PhD, an MSc in endodontics. Because I was very interested in endodontics then. Now I haven't done an endo in years, but I have people doing that for me. So I applied. I remember I even had to take a TOEFL test to prove that my English was up to standard, which I thought was quite hilarious. And then I went through interviews and I was a bit skeptical from the beginning already. I remember telling the interviewer, I'm like, "Why would you take me? You know I'm not going to stay. Why would you invest your MSc program?" Because they only take two candidates.
And he's like, "No, no, no. We really want a variability of candidates. We're very interested". And in the end, they didn't take me. I was number three on the list. So I'm like, okay, what am I going to do now? So I had one year now to prepare myself for the Hong Kong licensing exam.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Which is notorious, particularly then was a complete nightmare. Because they had their own dental school. They didn't want to have foreign dentists. And as you know with all licensing examinations, they're not there to let people in. They're to keep people out.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right, exactly.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
It's not quite as bad as in the US where you have to take-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
State by state.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
... Take your boards again and go to school in some states again.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, right, yeah. If you come in as a foreign dentist here, you-
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
You have to go back to dental school.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... You have to go back to school for at least two years in a foreign program to get your license here, yeah.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah. So we didn't have to do that, but we had a three-part exam. And they give you a reading list, if you read all this you're going to be fine with part one. And then if you do this, you're going to be fine with part two. And part three was the one where you basically would be slaughtered because they needed to cut the numbers. But the reading list was useless. So you talk to people, they're forget about the list. Get yourself as many old American licensing examinations as you can get online, buy them and go through those because that's where they take the questions from. But anyway, I mean, cut a long story short, I passed it on the first go, which was very, very lucky. And I think it was also because I was the only Gweilo girl. Gweilo means white ghost.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, okay.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
So I was the only Gweilo blonde taking it that year. And I think they still knew that I was mighty angry that didn't take me into their MSC program for Endo. So anyway, got my license and started working in a big group practice and found out pretty soon that I wasn't all that hot shit as I thought. So I mean, I was just suddenly confronted with these great dentists. I had people that had gone to the AACD that were only.... This was before the internet. They had already gone done spears and things like that. And they were just so smart. And that was then after a couple of years, I decided I was going to go and come to the Kois Center.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Sometimes it's hard to admit we may not be as skilled as we thought, especially in something we've dedicated years of hard work to. It's all too easy to forget that there's always more to learn and endless room to grow. In his 1927 autobiography, Mahatma Gandhi remind us of the importance of humility. And I quote, "The seeker after truth should be humbler than the dust. The world crushes the dust under its feet, but the seeker after truth should be so humble himself that even the dust could crush him". If we truly want to improve, we have to be ready to swallow a big slice of humble pie. But two traits make it taste a little better, passion and drive. Sandra has both an abundance and her fire comes from a surprising place.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Well, obviously a deep-seated insecurity. Don't we all?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, yeah. No, I think there's some of that that drives us. That's a very honest answer. Yeah, I think every human being has some insecurity of I'm not good enough. And that's a driving force for them to, I want to be better.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I want to be better.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I want to be good enough.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
And I'm intensely competitive. My husband even if he says that he doesn't like my tiramisu. I'm, what the hell? Why don't you? I'd make the best tiramisu in the world. I put this special thing in. I get very into it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So if I ever eat dinner at your house, I'll know to compliment the tiramisu.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah, you better.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So looking back on your career, what's your proudest achievement?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Okay. Well, apart from being made a clinical instructor-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right, at the Kois Center.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
At the Kois Center, I couldn't believe when that happened. Because I didn't really feel I was deserving. But I had been daydreaming, obviously, about this moment. And I think first accreditation and then fellowship, these were very proud achievements of mine because that's a lot of work.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That's a lot of work. You passed that on the first time.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
True, yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You tend to pass a lot of things on the first go.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Well, you know, deep-seated insecurity.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And a sense of competitiveness.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Damn right.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
How do you deal with challenges? When you get a big challenge in your life, how do you deal with that?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Okay. First I go into a corner and cry, and then I just confront it head on. If I have a challenge, it depends what kind of challenge it is, but you can't hide from a challenge.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so you work up the nerve, the courage.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Correct.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And then you just go-
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Do it
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... Head on.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. There was an interesting quote that Jeff shared with us the other day. Oh, actually, I'm going to read this because I took a photo of it because I thought it was really good. "Behind every strong person, there is a story that gave them no choice".
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think that really spoke to me. I was like, wow. A lot of times I think we're capable of more than we give ourselves credit for.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so I think a lot of times we are confronted with challenges that seem overwhelming at the moment, and then you don't have a choice and you work through it.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
You have to do it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you become stronger as a result of that. And I think that-
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
And at the end of the day, I mean, once again, this sounds very platitude, but it's the challenges that make us, right?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Knowing that you overcame this challenge.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I look back on my own life and some of the challenges or hardships I've had, I would've liked to have missed out on, right?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
On the other hand, it made you appreciate it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
But I'm the person that I am today because of those experiences. And I think if I hadn't had some hardships and things that I had to work through, I wouldn't be the person that I'm today. I would probably be really difficult to be around.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
You get a little knock on the head once in a while, that's a good thing.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Getting knocked down and getting beat up a few times and finding out you weren't as good as maybe you thought you were, and that maybe you need to put more effort and more work into it. I think it makes you humble and I think it makes you just appreciate life. And Tracy was saying, an important thing is to allow yourself more grace. And when you do that, you also allow people around you more grace. I don't know what struggles you've had or been through, but I'm not going to judge you because it's like I know my own, I carry my own. And so it's kind of like, yeah, so I'm a little more accepting as I'm older. I'm less judgmental and a lot more accepting of the people around me and giving them a little more grace and space and understanding.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I think that comes with being older. I mean, I used to be not just extremely judgmental, but also extremely paranoid that everybody was judging me. And I remember long time ago, 20 years ago, my therapist said, "Oh my God, you really think you're the center of the world?"
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you were like, what? I'm not?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
No? But that was one of where I go like, yeah, that was good.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
That is good. See what you think about this. But I think to some degree, our own life experience, we can only really see the world from our own view and through our own eyes and through our own life experience. And so to some degree, you are the center of your world because that's how you experience the world. But important to recognize we're not the center of everybody's world.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Absolutely.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Because everybody's entitled to their own opinion, and they're based on their own life experiences, right?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Exactly.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So when you think about extraordinary people, how would you describe them?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I don't think there's one description for an extraordinary person. I do think an extraordinary person is somebody that has had challenges, that is very generous with their knowledge, that is never resting, and that isn't dogmatic, that is willing to change their opinion. That's an extraordinary person to me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
The more I look, the more extraordinary I see. And I really tend to think that we all have some extraordinary in us, and some people discover it and develop it, and some people don't. And it's maybe the people that look for it, they see it in other people or their mentors and then they tend to want to develop that in their own life. They look up to that and then want to develop that. Who inspires you the most right at the moment? And this could be in your personal life, in your professional life, in any aspect of your life.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I think my children right now are a big inspiration to me. My older daughter, she has already overcome a lot of adversity in her life, medical issues. She was in Australia, then came home during COVID. Her university education was completely disrupted, and she worked through it really, really well. And my younger children are just also very inspirational to me. I think that their life is about to start, and they have a big zest for it. I'm very proud of my children and I'm inspired by them.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And you probably inspire them, I mean, certainly.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I do hope so, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I do hope so. And they better don't say differently otherwise my daughters don't get to borrow my clothes anymore.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
The world of work that Sandra's kids will step into is one filled with uncertainty. The lingering effects of the COVID-19 pandemic, the constant reminders of climate anxiety, and the scenes of conflict on our screens have left many young people feeling powerless to shape the world they live in. It's no wonder then that so many are searching for work that feels meaningful and fulfilling. But what does meaningful work actually look like? Carlos Sanvee, Secretary General of the world YMCA, thinks that, and I quote, "The magic ingredients of decent work are that it must be healthy, rewarded, ethical, protective, inclusive, growth-promoting, co-created, balanced, productive, sustainable, purposeful, and connected". Dentists are fortunate, we get to see the direct impact of our work every day. But for others, it can be more challenging to find the meaning and power in what they do. I think it's up to leaders to encourage young employees to speak up about what gives them purpose in their work. This kind of support could make them feel more motivated, inspired, and maybe even a little more hopeful about the future. Sandra's looking forward to her future too, and the challenges that lie ahead.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
I am trying to do more teaching, because that was something I never thought I would do. But then John, I remember a couple of years ago, I came and I was with Amanda and we are helping him out when Christian Coachman first came to the center and-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Amanda C?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Amanda C, yeah. And he was inviting us to the-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Who's been a mentor for so many people.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
So many people. Amanda is so incredible. And she's also one of my best friends. We went through accreditation together. We went through fellowship together. At some stage, I saw Amanda six or seven times a year. Right now, not so much unfortunately.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
So I miss her a lot.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Hong Kong has changed.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So how has that impacted your life personally, and how has that impacted your business?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Okay. So many, many foreign businesses, there's still a lot of foreign businesses that use Hong Kong as a gateway to China or they have their headquarters in Hong Kong but they're produce in China. So particularly lots of German companies, but certainly there's a lot less of that. So I have seen a large percentage of my ex-Patriot patients disappear, going back home, moving to Singapore, that kind of stuff. Then we have a much higher influx of mainland patients, but without wanting to distance anybody, they're lovely but the dental awareness is not quite there. So some of them just don't get why. They see it way more as a commodity that has to meet the price point, and they don't see the value.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I think coming out of the system that they're in, I think that's what they've learned or come to expect right?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Well, I don't know. I've, by the way, personally have seen fantastic dentistry coming out of China, but that's not cheap either. Some of my Chinese friends... Actually right now, I have a little mentee in the practice, a gorgeous girl. She goes to the American school and she wants to become a dentist, Shajin. And she's so with it, she comes at least once or twice a week into the practice, watches at work and stuff like that. And her parents are lovely. They're good friends of ours. And they're wealthy. They're wealthy. Wealthy from Beijing. But her dad told me the way my parents choose a dentist, it's just whoever's the cheapest. But that will come, that'll change.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. That will change in time, sure. It's interesting, I've spent quite a bit of time in Japan. And in Japan, the dentist don't really develop a relationship with the patients. And so the patient will go to this dentist for a procedure and then not go to the dentist until they have an emergency or whatever. And three years later, and they'll go to this dentist because it was closer. And they bounce around, they don't really have this continuity of this relationship. And it was very interesting to me because the Japanese culture is so relationship-based. When you do business in Japan, it's all about the-
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
About dinner.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
... It's about the relationship. And then to not have that element when you're treating patients, culturally, it was kind of surprising to me. And then I've come to appreciate, as I've traveled around the world and taught and been to so many different countries, culturally, it's different in... We just project that it's the same.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
It should be the same, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It should be the same, and it's not. So every country has its own culture.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Also, every patient population is totally different.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
But being a citizen of the world like you are, you see all these cultures and you probably get to experience those in Hong Kong very differently than anybody else gets to really. We've covered so much, Sandra, and I appreciate you being so open and honest and vulnerable. So a lot of my audience are young entrepreneurs and business people, anything else that you'd like to add or any piece of advice that you would give a young person?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Okay. Well, obviously a young person is... Okay, don't make it about the money. Really just try and not make it about the money at all. Obviously, it's very important that you live, but it shouldn't be about the money. And go out and educate yourself because you're never done learning.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
That's my two life mottoes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay, perfect. And what would you say, there's one thing about you that most people wouldn't know. I mean, you're kind of an open book, but is there one thing about you that you say people wouldn't know?
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Well, you just said you had no idea that I like making jam.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I know. Because that's pretty funny because you really hit home for me. Blackberry jam is one of my comfort foods. From a child my mother made blackberry jam, and it still, for me, Dana makes black... That's a thing, she's already stocking the blackberries at home to make jam.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And my mom gives me a couple of jars of jam every year for my birthday.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
That's so nice.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So when you said that, I was just like, wow. Number one, that really hits home for me. And number two, it's like, because you're always so glamorous.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
You can't see me in my little pinny and with my jars, with my canner.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
But now I can. And I'm like, oh, I can really relate to Sandra because yeah, that's home for me.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
No, no. I mean, it's like when my husband and I go to Munich, because that's where I'm from, our favorite shop there is Kustermann, which is a kitchen and household paradise on literally six, seven floors. And I get so excited being in there, getting the gadgets, like a cherry pit remover. You haven't lived until you got one of those. But I don't know if there's anything, as I say, I think most people that meet me that probably think like, oh my God, she's so confident, and I'm actually not. But I do think that not confidence that I have has been, if you use that positively, I think that can be a good thing. If you never be that I'm not that sure of myself, that always has been a motivation to me to try and do better.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
As I'm listening to you, I'm sitting here thinking in some regard, I hadn't really thought about this before, but in some regard, our greatest weakness may turn out to be our greatest strength.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
That's what the wise men says.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
You just have to use it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Embrace it.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Yeah, embrace it. That's me. That's just what you have to deal with. Make the best of it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you so much.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
It was a pleasure. I had no idea how this was going to go, but I had the best time.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And for me, I just see you and I talk to you now and again but it's like being able to sit down and have a conversation, I feel like, well, I've made a new friend for life.
Dr. Sandra Hulac:
Oh, most definitely. Can't wait to see you again.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you so much, Dr. Sandra Hulac for joining me today. And thank you for going on this inspiring journey with me. Around here we aim to inspire and create connections. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile, or scratched that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary. Bye for now.