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Veterans know how to lead. The lessons we learned in the military form the foundation for bigger successes in business, entrepreneurship and community.
Host John S Berry, CEO of Berry Law, served as an active-duty Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army, finishing his military career with two deployments and retiring as a Battalion Commander in the National Guard. Today, his veteran led team at Berry Law, helps their clients fight some of the most important battles of their lives. Leading successful teams in the courtroom, the boardroom, and beyond, veteran leadership drives the firm’s rapid growth and business excellence.
Whether building teams, synchronizing operations, or refining tactics, we share our experiences, good and bad, to help you survive, thrive and dominate.
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[00:00:02.480] - Gabriela Bell
How do you feel if, like, if we're uncovering this and it comes to be that you're the pinch point, right? Or you're the, the blocker? And like, their response can be really eye-opening because sometimes leaders don't realize that they are the problem.
[00:00:22.940] - John S. Berry
Welcome to Veteran Led. I'm your host, John Berry. Today's guest is Gabriela Bell. She is the founder and CEO of Organized Q. She teaches at NYU's Veterans Future Labs and is a contributing author of Deserts to Mountaintops: Our Collective Journey to Reclaiming Our Voice. Welcome to the show, Gabby.
[00:00:44.580] - Gabriela Bell
Hi, John. It's great to see you. Thanks for having me on the show today.
[00:00:49.200] - John S. Berry
Great to see you again as well. You know, I like to always start off with a great story, and when I met you, uh, in New York City, one of the Veteran, well, the CEO Circle events. I remember I was talking with you and I was looking for an EA and I was explaining my life to you at the time, which was I just bought a house in Omaha. I recently went through a divorce. My girlfriend lives in Fort Lauderdale. I've got 9 attorneys in DC. I've got a bunch of employees in Texas. I move around a lot. I'm a trial lawyer. And so, you know, I was looking for somebody and I kind of said, hey, I need somebody boots on the ground for that phase of my life. But what you do is you take military spouses and find remote EA positions for them. And what I love about that is, you know, we all need an EA, right? If you don't have an EA, you are the EA. And so as you grow an organization, regardless of whether you're in politics, a nonprofit, or for-profit, you need help, right? If you're going to get— be your best, you need a team.
[00:01:51.550] - John S. Berry
And usually they say the first hire is to find that EA who can start taking things off your plate. So, we had that conversation. For that season of my life, I wanted a lifestyle that did not require my presence. So, I was like, oh yeah, I kind of need someone to be there. But 90% of what I needed to be done could have been done by Organized Q. So, tell us about your organization and how it started.
[00:02:16.070] - Gabriela Bell
Sure. Um, I agree with you. I think everybody could use a right-hand person to help take the minutia off of, uh, your plate, whether it be in your professional life, even your personal life. And that's, you know, where Organized Q does come into play. A little bit about our founder story. So, I'm a former military spouse. I started my career off as a math teacher and happily put my career on hold when we received PCS orders while I was on maternity leave and had to turn in my resignation. And again, I was happy to do that. I saw my parents, my father was in the Air Force, I saw my mom continuously put her career on hold and moving alongside my dad. So, it just felt like, you know, normal. Several PCSs, moves, deployments, TDYs, and 4 kids later, we ended up in the Washington, D.C. area. And I saw that I was, you know, my life was changing. I was about to become a single mom of 4, and I thought, what am I going to do? I could have easily gone back into teaching, but At the time, you know, my youngest was 3, and most of my paycheck would've gone to childcare.
[00:03:31.430] - Gabriela Bell
So, I started hodgepodging different work together. One of those was as a virtual assistant. And along the same time, I was looking for ways to upskill my own professional development and career. I found an organization, a Veteran service organization actually, the Dog Tag Fellowship, and applied to that. I was accepted, and that was really life-changing for me. Went through that, and part of the premise of graduating from the program, you work with Georgetown University and work through a certificate of business administration. Part of that is to put together a business plan. So, when I started, I thought, oh, I'd love to start a nonprofit, you know, working with military families. And I quickly realized a nonprofit is more than just saying you're a nonprofit, and I really needed to look at ways to bring income into my family, my fam, my home, my life, So I took that gig as a virtual assistant and created the business plan, which was really the foundation of Organize Q. I was already doing the work and really, you know, formalized my business acumen through that. And again, I did not intend to start a business. I was just providing these services and I grew to capacity.
[00:04:50.470] - Gabriela Bell
And so, I was really nervous about, you know, turning down more work. But also, I was like, how am I going to do this? So, I hired my first team member who was a Veteran spouse, and then I hired my second. And then COVID happened and work just exploded in a really good way. And we're now a team of about 20. And, you know, we provide those executive assistant services to small business owners, executives, and social impact organizations. And we really stand on the philosophy of providing flexible remote work, in particular for military spouses, Veterans, and underemployed professionals. So I started it because I needed it, grew to capacity, saw an opportunity to continue to expand in that, that category. And we've just continued to grow and just really passionate about providing excellent services, you know, to those that we work with. While also helping military spouses and their families.
[00:05:50.460] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I can't overstate the importance of military spouses on your team. They're resilient, they're ready for change, and they're just used to making things happen. It's the same reason why we hire Veterans. And one of my best experiences with a mil spouse was right before COVID who ended up staying for several years after COVID. She was the Air Force, MilSpouse of the Year and just a phenomenal team member. And then I thought, well, wow, why don't we have more milspouses? And so we said, not only are we trying to hire Veterans, we're trying to hire milspouses. And that led to one of my best attorneys, Rachel Collins. She was— her husband was an Army aviation officer and he was stationed at Offutt. And she was looking for a job in the area. And a lot of places were telling her, even though she was highly, highly qualified, I mean, a total star, that, oh, well, you're a milspouse and we know you're going to leave in a few years. I'm thinking, well, I said, you can work remote. We don't care. You're so talented. I just want you on the team. And she's done amazing things for us.
[00:06:49.460] - John S. Berry
And, and then when her husband moved to Texas, well, we've already got right now over 30 team members in Texas. So it was like, oh, this is great. I have a leader in Texas. So, and then from there it just, it just exploded. And we joined groups like the JD or I guess I joined the JDMSN, the Military Spouses Network for Lawyers. And we found some amazing lawyers for military spouses. We get amazing lawyers. Are also lawyers who come from the JAG Corps. But it's amazing to me, the— it's very similar, the mindset between Veteran military spouse. I guess you share a lot of hardships. I know my first wife did when I deployed. And you always think it's so hard on the family. But when I was— I think about time when I was a company commander in Iraq and like, I just had to worry about the mission, but someone had to be organized and take care of everything at home. And so when I think of military spouses on my team, I think of someone who can multitask, can handle a ton of responsibility, and is completely reliable.
[00:07:49.330] - Gabriela Bell
I would definitely agree. I have, you know, having grown up in the military community, you know, military families are really resilient. You know that you only have a short period of time in a particular place. You want to make the most out of it. For military spouses in particular, it's almost like you can give us, you know, two toothpicks and some duct tape and some string, and we'll figure, you know, out how to make the kitchen table out of that. So that resiliency, that creativeness, that attitude of like, we can get it done, is generally what we find in working with other military spouses and family members. And also have to include, you know, caregivers as well in that space. Like, just completely resilient, very good time managers. I recall when I was— we were PCSing from Monterey, California to the DC area, and we had to delay our move because I ended up very, very sick. I was in the hospital for 10 days because of a ruptured appendix, 'cause I was, you know, helping to pack and wasn't focusing on my own health. And I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I, like, once I was, you know, awake, I was like, we have to call the movers and change, you know, the schedule.
[00:09:02.060] - Gabriela Bell
And so there I am in my hospital bed making the phone calls to change it. And I don't— if you're a military family and your spouse is in the hospital, do not make them make the phone call. And I wasn't made to, but I just took care of it. But that kind of resiliency of like, hey, it's just got to get done, you know, we need to change things, we've got to figure out what the solution is. You know, that's generally what we see. And that really translates very well into working alongside business leaders, nonprofit organizations who are wearing all of the hats and they want to focus on growing their businesses and need people who can pay attention to the details, the tasks, the bigger picture of like, hey, maybe it's not a good idea for you to schedule an 8 o'clock meeting on Monday morning after you've come back from your family vacation that you've been, you know, really looking forward to all of this time. So helping to be that accountability partner is where we find some really good traction. And military spouses been an excellent fit for that.
[00:10:03.410] - John S. Berry
And the ability, I think, to adjust to a new team, right? When we talk about PCSs and moving to different duty stations, it's usually like every 3 years. So when I hire a military spouse, I don't have to worry about, okay, is this person going to be a cultural fit? And the answer is, well, generally that— because we hire so many Veterans, generally fits right in. But also that experience in building new teams, being around an entire new social circle. Military spouses have that.
[00:10:29.020] - Gabriela Bell
Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'd also, you know, push that as well to their children, you know, looking at how they're growing and developing because that's really like our future workforce. So, you know, remembering that as, you know, our service members, our Veterans, our spouses, our caregivers, you know, they are helping to raise, you know, future generations of leaders, entrepreneurs, and our future workforce. So, definitely have those, those attributes that they've had to learn along the way and a big supporter of that community.
[00:11:04.250] - John S. Berry
Now, let me ask a question. It sounds like a stupid question, but really isn't, which is, who is your ideal client? I know it's anybody who needs help, but let's talk about that because you have levels of sophistication within your organization. So, so who's the ideal client for Organized Q?
[00:11:19.530] - Gabriela Bell
Well, on the surface, we like to say that we like to work with those who we would enjoy sitting down to have a cup of coffee with, you know, people who are really in organizations that are really looking for, you know, support, that they're open to new ideas, they're open to streamlining their, their current systems and processes, they're willing to let go of some of the, um, the reins that they've been holding on to because they've had to. Um, we found a really great niche with nonprofits. Um, you know, they are in general limited with their budget and their resources and looking for fractional support. So, we've been able to work with quite a number of nonprofits to help support and supplement their growing teams. We've even seen and been really fortunate to be able to, you know, put in people and they've over time grown and, you know, into full-time positions with them. So, it's really exciting. I would say, you know, nonprofits have been our, our sweet spot.
[00:12:22.220] - John S. Berry
How long is the average lifecycle of that fractional EA within an organization? I get it. It's based on the needs of the organization, but how long generally?
[00:12:32.370] - Gabriela Bell
So it really depends. So, you know, the, the landscape is always changing, you know, the market, the economy, what that looks like. You know, nonprofits are, you know, under the pressure point of making sure that they're getting the funding that they need. And so, you know, for us, our ideal is to be able to really understand what the client needs, what a good fit would be besides the, you know, expertise and the experience level. But also, you know, are they looking to grow? Are they looking to, you know, go from 20 hours a month to full-time over the next 18 months? Our idea is to make sure that we pair one EA with that particular organization. The idea is that they're with them long term. And so we have clients that have been with us for multiple years. And then also, you know, we also be working as an agency able to, if there needs to be a personnel change because life happens or there's another opportunity, we backfill, you know, on behalf of the client so they don't have to start from zero. So we, you know, build out that continuity and that kind of safety net so that if, you know, there does need to be a personnel change, that we can do that.
[00:13:49.870] - John S. Berry
And you also work with entrepreneurs. I know because you work with a lot of, a lot of my friends. And, you know, some obviously, you know, look, you can do everything right and still not succeed. And so not all entrepreneurial ventures succeed, but sometimes they do and they succeed wildly. And I have to imagine that from time to time you're in a position where the person's like, hey, Gabby, I need this person full time. I'm going to steal them from you. And how do you deal with that? Right? Because it's like you've got this great talent pool. You've invested time in training these mill spouses and they're doing amazing things, they're doing amazing work. And but it's at a fractional level and someone says, hey, I want that person full time. Is that built into the contract or how do you, how do you handle that?
[00:14:28.640] - Gabriela Bell
Yes. So, well, you know this, you're a lawyer. Your contracts are for your difficult or your bad customers. Right.
[00:14:39.070] - John S. Berry
Right.
[00:14:39.630] - Gabriela Bell
I learned very early on, I was like, oh, that's a, that's a pinch point for us. It's really hard to lose good talent. So, we early on, you know, talked received some advice that said, hey, put that into your contract, that if a client wants to buy out the contract, buy out that talent. So we have a— we have clauses in our contracts now that say, like, if this is something that they would like to do, you know, we've got a whole process and, um, and there's a fee, you know, for sure, because there's trickle-down effects, right? Because most of our talent is looking for part-time work, you know, many of them work with multiple clients. So, if somebody really great leaves, um, we have to backfill other blank spots for other clients. So, um, yeah, so we filled that in, and I would strongly suggest to any entrepreneur, spend some time and upfront investment working with lawyers who can help you build out good contracts.
[00:15:37.490] - John S. Berry
Yeah, and I've also found too that, I mean, in, in working with you and interacting with you, that, that you generally want to make your clients successful. And you've done one thing that I, I have found— I had a fractional CFO once, and she's like, you know, John, you've kind of outgrown us. This fractional model was built for this size, this much time. You need this. Let me help you find somebody. And so, I found that, you know, I know you're the same way of just being open and honest about when companies really start growing. It's like, I don't think you understand fractional. And I know you can make it happen. You can give them multiple fractional team members. But if they want that one, you know, it's just having that conversation of, well, your organization is here. If it continues to go here, we may no longer be a fit. And I know that's tough, especially when you got a great client and that client's like, no, no, no, Gabby, I want your team. I want your team. Like, well, you need some other pieces here. And of course, with your education and your training and your work continuing to educate others, you know, you know, when organizations reach that threshold.
[00:16:34.990] - Gabriela Bell
For sure. And again, you know, going back to the ideal customer of who we wanna work with, you know, those lines of communication, you know, organizations that are anywhere from 5 deep to 50, You know, that also seems to be a really good spot where the communication is freely flowing. So, we always ask, hey, just keep the lines of communication open. Last year was super hard. We had a couple of clients who were affected by all of the dogeing that was happening. And, you know, we came up with some creative solutions. They still needed support. They didn't have the finances to be able to support that. So, we did. We were like, let's have a conversation and see what can work for all parties. And, you know, and we do that and we have the luxury of being able to do that because we are small. We are a, you know, a boutique agency, if you will. And so, we can make those accommodations. We just have to be, you know, my focus is one, to make sure that the clients, the customers feel supported, but also our team members feel supported. So, you know, it's very, very— and I'm sure you've been in this spot where when things get really tight and you have to cut back, those are hard conversations to have.
[00:17:49.440] - Gabriela Bell
So, you know, trying to project as far out as possible, like preserving the, the work availability for team members so that they can have some consistency is really important to us. But we're creative in like how we do it because you have to be like, life is predictably unpredictable.
[00:18:08.400] - John S. Berry
Well, and Organized Q was such a great resource for the Veterans in our group during Doge, because a lot of them lost government contracts. They had to cut back on staffing. They couldn't afford the full-time EA anymore, amongst other positions. And here you are saying, well, I've got a fractional solution. It's going to cost less and it's going to be much more flexible with an uncertain future.
[00:18:29.890] - Gabriela Bell
Sure. Yeah, we, we've also found— so the admin space is very great. You know, anywhere from like data entry can be considered administrative to being an executive assistant to being a chief of staff to, you know, being a project manager. People can go, oh, you know, that's all administrative. And we really try to like dig in and go, what is it that you need? And then, you know, craft solutions directly for that because sometimes they do come in and what they need is like a strategist, right? They need like that's the first step. We need to like they've got all of these ideas. They want to go in all these different directions like, hey, let's help you. Like, focus in. So, we offer strategy sessions as well, um, you know, executive assistant services. And then we've also started to provide, um, talent recruitment services for clients because sometimes they, they want to have, um, really good talent under their own umbrella. So, we've started to provide that as well.
[00:19:27.770] - John S. Berry
Yeah. And it's not just your, your strategy that, that helps people, it's your network, right? You know, a ton of project managers like, uh, Candice Porter and others. You're like, okay, I, I can, I can, I can, I can set you up. And I love the fact that you can, you can have those honest conversations. Okay, you think you need this, but I've been doing this for a long time. And based on where your business is and what you're telling me you need, you don't need, you know, an EA. You need a project manager. You need someone with a project management background to actually handle what you say you need help with. And I'm guilty of the same thing where I think I need something. I'm so driven to get what I need. I need someone to you know, kick me in the face and say, "You're wrong." Look, you're worried about the position, but I'm going to take a step back and let's look at the tasks that you actually need done. Let's look at the competencies that you actually need and let's slow it down and let's have a conversation about what you really need rather than what you think you need.
[00:20:24.160] - John S. Berry
And I know sometimes it's a difficult conversation. How do you master that conversation?
[00:20:29.730] - Gabriela Bell
I think it's again, you know, just having open conversations. We find since we are, you know, remote, we find having cameras on really helps, right? You can have a conversation. Telephone calls are also helpful, but just to like dig in and be really open and honest of, you know, hearing what the problems are that the clients, the customers have, looking at, hey, here are some plausible solutions, You know, if they're discussing like, hey, I keep missing meetings because I'm not getting to my email, you know, we can go, okay, this is, this is a solution. This is what we can do in this space. Sometimes what people want when we dive into it is like they want or need like a co-founder, right? Because they might be so early on and, or they need, you know, a director of operations or so we dive in and we talk about it. We say this is what Organized Q can do. This is, you know, what these particular opportunities are. We can do it. You know, we again, our network is pretty good where we have access to really great talent. We're a military spouse employment partner through the Department of Defense, Department of War.
[00:21:43.980] - Gabriela Bell
So, we have access to really, really fantastic talent. Our pinch point is we just, we need more work. But it's just having those conversations and being really honest. Like, we— yes, we provide remote executive assistant services. We cannot compete with offshore talent. Like, there are many, many virtual assistant companies that are outside of the United States. We can't compete with them on a price point. We're very open and honest about that. And for some people, that is a solution and that is a great direction for them to go. You know, our model is different. And we talk about it, but we also say like, hey, if the price point is your biggest factor, then this is what we can do with your budget. But we can't work magic. We can't provide like a COO for like offshore talent prices. Like we just can't do that. It's not reasonable. It's not like in the realm of expected. So we just try to have the conversations.
[00:22:46.380] - John S. Berry
Yeah. And, you know, with offshore, I mean, some people have been very successful. Some have given me some nightmare stories. And, you know, I always think of it like this. Anybody you hire, whether it's in-house or fractional, you get what you pay for. And the old saying is there's nothing more expensive than a cheap lawyer. I find that to be true for any position because, you know, in our world, I've met with some phenomenal people people who are great at growth, but they're a little bit erratic. And it's like, you're phenomenal at growth, but you need someone to actually run your operations day to day. And you need, you need some support, whether, you know, fractional, full-time, just something. And, and you need to be aligned. And I think the one thing that, you know, Organized Q does really well is you look for that alignment. You have, like you said, you have that open conversation and then you find that alignment as opposed to, okay, we found somebody. That can do what you need. We're just going to throw them in. You really take the time to figure out what's going on in the business, the personality of the leader, and you're looking for that fit.
[00:23:47.570] - John S. Berry
How, how do you handle it when the fit falls apart? Right. You know, there are some— I think sometimes people will tell you who aspirationally they think they are or aspirationally who they think their organization is, but they don't have that 360 assessment and they don't have that clear picture. They have blind spots. And you have to be very direct with them and tell them. So during those conversations, how do you do that in a way where you are being gentle and respectful? That's one where I'm not. I'm just direct. I'm like, I give them the knife and I'm like, hey, you're— this is what you got to do. But you seem to have a skill where you can do it very cordially and respectfully.
[00:24:26.400] - Gabriela Bell
Oh, well, thank you. I have had to learn to grow a thicker skin for sure. And I mean, I'll be really honest, I do not like conflict. I know that we can't get away from it. Like, times, like, people are gonna people, right? And every day, I even tell my kids this, I'm like, it's like a chemistry experiment. Like, you're gonna put people in a space and you never know, like, how it's going to be, like, depending on how they slept last night, what they ate, you know, how they're feeling. And so every day can be a little bit different. And, you know, just looking at ways to approach it of, of, hey, we are— we view this as a partnership that we're growing and working together alongside each other. Um, and, and sometimes those conversations are hard because sometimes leaders don't realize that they are the problem of, like, getting to the next step. Um, and so I, I talked to somebody recently, and they said that in their vetting questions, you know, on deciding, like, Because when you, when you, I'm sure you experience this as well, when you're talking with a prospective new client, you're not only making sure that they're a good fit for your organization, but they're making sure that you're a good fit for them.
[00:25:38.510] - Gabriela Bell
And one of the questions that they suggested was something along the lines of asking a prospective client or customer, especially in the service-based business, how do you feel if like if we're uncovering this and it comes to be that your you're the pinch point, right? Or you're the blocker.
[00:25:57.660] - John S. Berry
You're the problem.
[00:25:58.480] - Gabriela Bell
You're the problem. You're like, how are you gonna feel? And like their response can be really eye-opening and it can determine like, are they going to be open to new ideas, new suggestions, you know, working alongside people. And then, you know, if it's not a good fit, we're happy to give recommendations. If we get started with a client, like we're in contract and we're starting who we've paired them with for whatever reason is not a good fit, we say keep the lines of communication open. We'll work through some troubleshooting spots. And if it's truly like, I don't know, what is it, vinegar and water or vinegar and oil, you know, we will on our behalf like backfill. And then— and it's not— I think it happened once. Usually our EAs will say, hey, this doesn't feel good. We usually hear it first from our team members before we hear it from the client. And sometimes it's just personality conflicts and we just have to work through it and sometimes talk people off the ledge and then, you know, keep working. But yeah, I need some more of that knife hand. Is that what you call it?
[00:27:09.020] - John S. Berry
Well, you know, I don't know if that's always effective. And I have found that when I've had really good EAs, my team prefers to interact with the EAs than me. And part of it is, look, you know, as a trial lawyer, I love to cross-examine. You know, as a former infantry officer, I want to do that inspection and make— so when I get involved, I go deep and I dig in. And in an organization, too much of that can be toxic. I mean, you want to inspect, you know, inspect what you expect. Just like the military, you have to do those inspections. But if you're there day in, day out digging into things that don't need to be dug into, you will slow down the growth of the organization. You will demoralize people. And I've been guilty of that. And so when I, when I've had great EAs in the past, the team has very much been more receptive to a quick talk with the EA than— and sometimes I get it. You're the boss, you know, people are sometimes a little bit intimidated. And then that direct feedback in the knife hand, you know, for me it's like I'm just trying to get through the day.
[00:28:03.840] - John S. Berry
But for them, they feel that they may take that home. I don't want to cause unnecessary stress. So some of the time it's like, okay, this is something that— and it's a delicate situation, and, uh, I could probably blow it up. So I'm going to let the EA have this conversation to get everybody aligned, uh, so that I don't disalign people with, with my passion or my, uh, anxiety or whatever I'm feeling at the time. So I really appreciate having that, that second in command, uh, who can, who can step up and, and help me, um, when I'm— and also give, give me that Give me that feedback that I need. And so I think that that's one area where EAs are undervalued. But here's the other problem. And I recently hired a mutual friend of ours, Lindsay Kough, former Navy SEAL. He's now our chief talent officer and we do something called top grading. So, our hiring has gotten a lot better. But one of the worst positions to be in, as I'm sure you've dealt with several times, is you hire an EA and that EA is great and either the EA maybe starts to fail to perform or they have a life change.
[00:29:01.890] - John S. Berry
Now all of a sudden, you don't have an EA and you don't want to mis-hire. You want to take time to hire the right person. But, you know, that can take 3, 4, 5, 6 months if you're looking for someone local. And so the— what I like about Organized Q is I can call Gabby and we can have a quick conversation, and she can find out what my immediate pain points are and fill the gap immediately, as opposed to just leaving that position open while I'm looking for the right fit. Because mis-hires are so expensive, not just in terms of, you know, you pay the recruiter, you pay the severance, But in terms of the loss of productivity, the loss of growth, the loss of opportunity, it just— once you have someone in that position, you never want to be without one because then you're not as a leader, you're not living in your unique ability. You're not doing what's your biggest and best tasks. You're doing the minutia, which is actually penalizing your team. So I'm curious, you know, how when you get those, those short-term engagements, like you said, the trouble is looking for work because there are a lot of people that are coming to you.
[00:30:01.530] - John S. Berry
They're in crisis. Help me, help me, help me. And you don't know how long that crisis is going to last till they find the full-time person. So how do you manage that?
[00:30:09.260] - Gabriela Bell
Sure. Again, it's going back to the very beginning and really trying to understand where that client is currently, where they hope to be in 6, 12, 2 years, 3 years down the road. And again, we're looking to design it in such a way that we can be hopefully a long-term solution for them. You know, oftentimes, especially like the economy is hard. Like, everything is getting more expensive. You know, finding really good talent, you know, is hard and wanting to keep them on and incentivize them. So, you know, for us, like, our margins have gotten smaller and smaller because we've had to and I've wanted to, you know, raise our payout rates and also like managing like all of the overhead that goes with it, right? All of the things that happen. So, when we talk to clients, who were running their own businesses or organizations and had those factors in mind as well. We're like, hey, tell us what you can do financially. Tell us, you know, what it looks like down the road. If you want us to, you know, build a plan that's that model of like, let's crawl, walk, run, we can do that too.
[00:31:20.840] - Gabriela Bell
We can grow alongside you. So, you know, it's the chicken and the egg. As you get more revenue, you can do more of this. As you do more of this, it just, you know, that cycle. So, it's just making sure that we have those big conversations upfront and just keeping the lines of communication open. And again, what you mentioned earlier, personality, like it matters. We have found that some of our clients who are very upfront at the beginning, like, I can be difficult to work with. And so, we know when we're looking to source a solution for them or an EA for them, We're looking for a particular profile and we'll ask, how do you feel about somebody who gives direct feedback? And it's not personal, but it can come across personal. And there are some people who, like, that is not a good fit for them. So we are not going to assign them to that kind of position because the EA will burn out and they'll want to leave. They'll be like, this is terrible. And then other people are like, yeah, I can, no problem. I don't have an issue with that.
[00:32:23.390] - Gabriela Bell
So we ask those questions at the beginning, like, what does success look like for you? What's your ideal way of communicating. Yeah, and we do our best. Majority of the time we get the pairing right.
[00:32:37.070] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I generally, one of my metrics for the EAs is my happiness scale, right? Because the two things I'll never get back are my time and my energy. And I'd rather spend my time and my energy working on my clients, helping Veterans get the disability benefits that they have earned and developing my team and building a great team. And when I'm in the minutia, I'm not doing that. I get frustrated. I come home, you know, just, I feel like my day's been wasted. But when I'm in my zone doing the things that I know are having an impact. I feel so much better. It just makes me a better leader, makes me a better person, makes me a better father. And when I get away from that, I really, I really struggle. And so it's, it's always great to have that person there. I just think it's a force multiplier for a leader. You can expand yourself, you can multiply yourself when you have someone to take care of those things for you and someone you trust. Like I said, a milspouse who understands attention to detail, and understands what it means to have a mission and to make sacrifices for that mission.
[00:33:32.280] - John S. Berry
So, this takes us to the after-action review. Gabby, give me your example of great leadership and poor leadership. You do not have to name names.
[00:33:39.200] - Gabriela Bell
Great leadership and poor leadership. Um, I wish I had had this question ahead of time so I could have come with something prepared. So, off the top of my head, I feel like great leadership is, you know, somebody that's willing to get in the mud with you. They're not afraid to work alongside you. They're not going to ask you to do things that they wouldn't be willing to do themselves. Um, also trusting those that they put in place, giving them the agency, uh, to do the job or the work or the position that they've been asked to do, and trusting that they're going to do that. Um, I think a really great leader is also open to honest, open communication from those that they're working alongside. You know, that they're willing to learn and flex with the times. And also in times of crises, you know, be able to stand up there and, you know, have that voice of stability and calm and say, even if they don't know the answers, being able to say, we're going to get through this together, you know, that I'm dedicated to you and our team and that we're going to get through this.
[00:34:49.250] - Gabriela Bell
I think those are some of the qualities of a really great leader. Adding humor in there as well helps to break the tension as well when things are super stressful. And then a poor leader, I don't know, jackasses.
[00:35:05.430] - John S. Berry
Yeah, yeah.
[00:35:06.230] - Gabriela Bell
A poor leader, somebody that doesn't want to hear that they feel like their way is the only way and that that's just the way that it goes, that there's no room for discussion or creativity or figuring things out in an appropriate fashion. So, I don't, I don't know. I try to stay away from poor leaders.
[00:35:30.350] - John S. Berry
And I find that when I don't have that help, I am the poor leader because all of a sudden I feel like, right, the weight of the world's on my shoulders. I gotta do everything. And then I am not having the discussions with the leadership team because there's not time for discussions. I'm stuck doing Good leaders, you're right, should get in the mud, but they shouldn't be in the weeds, right? And so I'm in the weeds doing stuff I shouldn't do, and now I'm directing and knife-handing, and I'm not having those discussions, allowing my leadership team to give input because I feel so rushed that I can't— there's so much to do that I just feel like I have to— okay, we gotta hit this 50-meter target, and I'm just hitting 50-meter targets all day, and I'm not really working on the long-range targets because I just don't feel like I have the bandwidth.
[00:36:10.310] - John S. Berry
So I, I've been there.
[00:36:12.550] - Gabriela Bell
Well, yeah. And I think as well as like when you recognize, for anybody, whether this be in your professional life or your personal life, when you feel like you're at this tension point, if individuals can step back for a moment and go, okay, like what is really the problem? Like I'm getting agitated, I'm upset. Like sometimes it's like, what are some immediate things you could, sometimes it's go take a nap, right? Just like come back refreshed for a minute or go have a sandwich or do some, and then be able to say, Okay, I want to be able to move fast. However, I got to pause for a second and get some things in order before we can start picking up the speed again. And just knowing that, like, if you are confident that the people around you have been put in those positions, they're the right, the right people for the right seats to be able to say, okay, let's level set, let's start again. And like, we're going to get there and like just helping to coach along and just and sharing like, I'm really frustrated because of X, Y, and Z, and knowing that your team around you you know, that you're on the same page, you have the same mission.
[00:37:13.150] - Gabriela Bell
But, you know, your, your talent person, Lindsay, is going to be— he's amazing— uh, is going to be fantastic because you're spending that time in hiring slow, like, can help reduce problems down the road, right? If you make sure you've got the right people in the right seats.
[00:37:32.350] - John S. Berry
Absolutely. So, Gabby, where can Veterans, military spouses, and people looking to hire an amazing fractional team member find you, Gabriela Bell, and your company Organize Q?
[00:37:44.850] - Gabriela Bell
Sure. So you can come by our website, organizeq.com. We're on social media as well. You're always welcome to reach out to me personally. You know, go through, go through you to get to me. Yeah, we're always happy to answer questions and see if we could be a good fit.
[00:38:02.490] - John S. Berry
I want to end on this. Now, I stole this from General Paul Funk. He used to say, go out and be a hero to someone today. And I wanna hear a hero story from one of your team about one of your team members coming into an organization. Don't have to name names or the organization.
[00:38:16.730] - Gabriela Bell
Oh, hero team.
[00:38:18.710] - John S. Berry
And I know they're the quiet, silent heroes that do, that don't get the accolades, but I know I've heard stories. So it's your, but they're your stories to tell. They're not mine.
[00:38:28.650] - Gabriela Bell
Okay. So we have one, one of our very, very first clients. We put an EA in with him and within their first 2 weeks they were able to cull through all of the backlog communication that had been in there. They captured that there was an open grant opportunity that was right in line with the work that they were doing, helped them to complete the grant application, and came away— I want to say it was like a $50,000 grant, which was a huge deal for this organization because they were small, and that was really impactful. So that was like one of our various early wins of just, hey, having somebody that you can trust who can look you know, through things that you might have missed, skipped, has been really, really excellent. I actually had an intern who was combing through some social media posts and came across an opportunity and sent it to me and they're like, hey, you might want to check this out. And I did. I applied and we won that as well. So, you never know. It's not always about winning and sometimes it's about not missing your kids, you know, piano recital because you forgot you double booked yourself.
[00:39:42.880] - Gabriela Bell
So those are, those are wins as well.
[00:39:45.440] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I think it's, it's so important for— from my perspective, years ago I was talking to a lawyer and he's like, well, nobody wants a lawyer who cleans their own toilets. I thought, well, that's pretty elitist. But then they're like, no, I don't think you understand. Like, they want a lawyer who is obsessed with their job and will spend every waking hour doing the work and, and, and so laser focused, right? Like an Olympic athlete, so focused on what they're doing that they're not doing all the extraneous stuff. And I see, you know, the EA as the same way where if you want to be excellent at what you do, you have to focus. You have to treat yourself like that Olympic athlete where you do not let distractions get in the way of serving your clients or serving the leaders on your team. And when you let yourself fall into the weeds and you're doing a lot of the administrative minutia, you're losing to your competitors who are much more focused, who have someone to handle those things. Yes, it costs money, but, right? Excellence always wins. And I found that people who are excellent at their job make a lot more money than people who are average.
[00:40:50.140] - John S. Berry
And so, if you wanna be excellent, you can't just do everything. You've gotta have someone help you. You need the support. Nobody does it alone. But, you know, from the greatest leaders I've met, I yet to have to meet one who does everything by themselves.
[00:41:05.740] - Gabriela Bell
Oh, for sure. And again, we, we talk about it. Yes, there is a financial component to it. There is a time commitment to it as well. But we also, you know, try to rephrase it and refocus it as it's an investment, right? It's an investment in your time right now to save you time in the long run so that you can do more of what you, you love. We also try really, really hard, especially with, with our clients and our team members, of we don't call it work-life balance, we call it work-life integration. You know, because like at the end of the day when you're like 110, like work's not gonna love you back, right? So, like those relationships and those things outside of your professional life, yes, it's important and necessary. And you know, lots of us really love the work that we're doing, but being able to work with, you know, the clients that we support and say, you know, it is okay to slow down, it is okay to take that vacation, we've got it. Right? You do what you need to do so you can come back refreshed so that we can keep growing.
[00:42:07.790] - Gabriela Bell
So that's a little bit of, you know, the take that we have. Yes, the work, the tasks, the projects, that's all important. We get that done, we get it done ahead of time, but also making sure like, hey, how can we carve in joy in this as well so that when the hard times come, we're not like, oh my gosh, it's always hard because it's hard. It is really hard.
[00:42:29.380] - John S. Berry
Yeah, I remember coming back from a 2-week jury trial and like, you know, all I had focused on was this case, right? That's all I focused on. And coming back to where there is no chaos, everything is handled. So, all the emails all day were handled, the mail, other deadlines that were not— I was not distracted. And had I been distracted, it would have been a complete disservice to my client. And so, when I think of it, when I think of the cost, I think, well, what's 20, 30 hours of my time getting back every week. What is that worth to me? And it's, I mean, it's substantial. And so, you're right, it's an investment. It's not a cost. And I have yet to meet, it's kind of like the military. I have yet to meet anyone who served who regrets serving in the military. Similarly, I have yet to meet any leader who has hired an EA, fractional EA, whatever it is, and regretted it.
[00:43:22.660] - Gabriela Bell
Well, that's really good. That's really good to hear. And yeah, we're always happy to support, you know, those that are looking to take the minutia off their plate to help get more of what they want to do and what's important and critical for them. Yeah, we're happy to help. We've got lots and lots of team members that want more work, and we've got literally hundreds of people on our waiting list that want to join our team.
[00:43:51.630] - John S. Berry
Thank you for joining us today on Veteran Led, where we seek to help Veterans build an even bigger, better future after military service. Unfortunately, for some of our Veterans, the roadblock to a better future is that they are not receiving all of the benefits that they earned. If you need help appealing a VA disability decision, contact Berry Law.