Business in 2022, what's new?

The speed of change is faster than ever and keeping up is the reality of daily life for business owners and entrepreneurs. Episode 15 looks at what's changed and what hasn't in business, so join James and a couple of guests to stay up in the loop for business in 2022

Show Notes

Business is ever-evolving, both online and off!! James, Paul and Jamie are back with episode 15 to discuss what's changed and what hasn't. Aimed at helping business owners and entrepreneurs shape their businesses in 2022 to deliver the growth we are all after.

We talk social media, personalisation, short-form video and even a bit on the metaverse to help you keep up with the pace of business in today's ever-changing world! So pop in your headphones, sit back and enjoy the episode! If there are any topics you want us to chat about then DM us on Instagram and we will get talking.

Don't forget to smash that like button and subscribe

What is Behind The Madness?

A podcast helping companies grow with marketing strategies, automation and time-saving tips and creative solutions.

James: Hello, and welcome to another
episode of behind the madness.

I'm your host, James Roberts, founder, and
owner of method, a growth agency who are

hell bent on unlocking company's potential
through creative and marketing techniques.

We're back and I'm again, joined by
jamie and Paul, mainly because we are

recording two episodes in one day, so we
can get more out to you guys and it's the

only way these two can actually pin me.

So today we are talking
about business in 2022.

What's changed and what hasn't.

This is going to be very much a seat
of the pants episode, where we're just

going to talk about the things that
we've heard of, we've seen changing

and we've seen not changing and do
a very much a conversational piece.

Jamie: I'm going to jump in
straight away with what do we

think of Meta and metaverse.

James: Oh, you've gone straight in with
the big guns, Jamie and I liked the

way that you're asking the question
rather than us throwing it to you.

Having the social media background
compared to me and Paul, I think obviously

there are going to be some big things that
are coming I think Facebook, as it was

had to change, they're obviously getting a
lot of other apps, a lot of other kinds of

organizations included in their business
and it didn't really sit under what

Facebook was when they first created it.

When was it?

When was it invented?

When was it founded?

Jamie: 2003, it kind of went to
2003, four, went live and then

came over to the rest of the world
out of the colleges and schools of

So, you know, when I was 10, 11,

James: So if we think about that, then
yes, it's been around a long time.

I think it had to adapt.

I think what they certainly were
finding was that a lot of the older

generation were using it and the
younger ones were thinking, this is

very uncool and obviously that can't
go on as we in the last podcast, I

think it ties in quite nicely there
that they had to look at their goals

and what they were wanting to achieve.

And it wasn't achieving
that so much anymore.

Paul, what were your thoughts?

Paul: Yeah, I agree.

I think Facebook, we're getting a bit
of flack for their privacy, so I think

moving name-wise moving away, probably
deletes a little bit of that history.

But yeah, I think with other apps
coming along taking their business or

especially advertising along with users
they've obviously acquired WhatsApp and

Instagram, so they can fight other apps
like TikTok and adapt there are ways

that way, but yeah, I think umbrellaing
all underneath one name will help them.

Jamie: From a business point of view,
I think it's actually really smart

because but you guys alluded to that
instagram is a beast it's the one at

the moment and obviously they own that.

So they've almost bought themselves,
especially with the kind of

incorporation of reels, short form video.

They bought themselves two to three
years of kind of trend time to

rebuild their original platform.

Because as James said, the products,
it's just not very good anymore.

Is it.

James: I quite like the logo, I
think they've done well with that.

And I think it obviously does
seem to make a lot more sense

of what they wanted to achieve.

What else is on the horizon
then Jamie come on give us

some, give us some insight, what
they're going to be doing next.

Jamie: Facebook or in business in general?

James: Facebook, or Meta.

Let's have a look at them.

Let's see what they're going to do.

Jamie: So I think massively with Meta,
obviously trying to own the space of

the Metaverse is going to be really
important because it's, it's this

virtual world mainly through stuff like
you think they got the Oculus, which

is AR VR, which straight away they are
trying to own a space, they are Meta.

They have Oculus, which allow
you to enter the Metaverse.

James: Which Martin has just bought.

We should have got him in.

Jamie: That's awesome.

What we should probably do then is if
you guys want to see either video or

some Instagram stories of Method in the
Metaverse, then pop that down in the

comments and then we can we can sort
that out with our Northern Irishman.

Going back to the kind of other
questions, Facebook, I think it bought

itself some really good lead time.

I think reels, Facebook has
to do something about TikTok.

TikTok became an absolute mammoth and came
to Europe with 500 million daily active

users being a kind of a Chinese company.

It had a lot of people in
Asia using the product.

So when it came over to Europe and
America, Facebook And Instagram

teams kind of went, wait a minute.

This is taking a lot of our market
taking a lot of our attention.

And obviously as people know,
attention means currency in that world.

So by bringing in Reels short form
video, that's going to be a big move

and that's going to be the trend that
really kicks on in 2022 in terms of

for marketers, for entrepreneurs solo
business owners, it's going to be a

really important aspect to build into
your strategy and make sure that you

are delivering that more authentic,
entertaining and educational piece

through quickfire digestible content.

I also think social shopping
is going to keep exploding.

We've seen it more with shops
and stores on Instagram.

I think that's going to be a move that
is going to be interesting for Meta.

I think being allowing people to almost
go shopping in the virtual world, try

things on imagine doing something,
whether it's like Ikea or B&Q and you

can go into the Metaverse, you can
see that product in your living room.

That would be a really interesting thing.

I will admit, I stole the Ikea reference
from a podcast I saw with Noel Mack

and Ben Francis at Gymshark the other
day, so thanks for that one guys.

James: Are you just
mentioning Gymshark again?

We just trying to, is that the second

Jamie: Yeah, well, I give
credit where credit's due.

I think it's great point
about the Metaverse.

I think most of us is
going to become massive.

We just need to go and check the
hashtag numbers on Instagram.

See how many times it's mentioned
and then social shopping.

They're the two big things that
are going to really push on,

especially as people, are still.

Getting out of the COVID mindset.

We've got obviously all of the
various elements of restrictions,

vaccinations, all of those things, which
we are not going to talk about here.

But it's making sure that people
still feel comfortable enough to go,

commerce and e-commerce and social
commerce is winning that race.

James: If we look back to, let's say
Christmas, I do a lot of my shopping

online, anyway, Christmas was no
different this year, just gone.

I bought mainly through
the likes of Amazon and the

like, certainly for the kids.

I think this year though is probably the
first time I've actually bought through

Instagram or through an Instagram shop.

I think it was the first time that I have,
I think it's always, it's kind of been

Jamie: Go on then , who was
it want to mention them,

James: it was Hexxee socks.

Jamie: out to Ben Cox and Johnny Hollway.

James: There you go, I'll have
my discount on my next pair.

I got some donut socks to try them out
which appear to have very, very good

reviews, but it's one of as I said.

One of the first times
I've actually done it.

I saw it, it popped up
looked great, boom job done.

And it took me, I mean, it was almost
as nailed, as easy as Instagram.

And I think that is going to be the
route to market for a lot of people now.

And we have, we've seen over
the last few years increase.

We are more receptive to it now, I think,
you know, we're starting to see the older

generation who don't like the internet,
whereas now wanting and understanding

it a lot more, they've had to over the
last two years, they've had to change.

They've had to do all of their
accounts and everything online.

So I think having that removed from
them opens up this digital way of

shopping too, to just about everybody.

So yeah, I completely agree with it
with the e-commerce I think it is a,

a massive marketplace and something
which is only going to become

easier to get to your consumers.

Jamie: I'm going to pick
up on something too.

You just said James and pull Paul in.

That you're just mentioning
about tools and stuff like that.

So I just want to bring Paul in on tools
for business owners that we've seen the

growth of zoom, we've seen the growth of
slack and all of this, like this HubSpot

out there, these kinds of online tools.

Paul, what do you see for that kind of
landscape for business owners in 2022?

Paul: I think it's just going
to become more, more used.

We work remotely at Method, we've
honed in certain apps that we like.

We use Slack, obviously, Zoom.

We use a time management
or job management Wrike.

We've moved away from them and moved to
ClickUp because they've adapted maybe

two things that we would you use more?

We didn't always use Slack.

We started using Slack we moved
to a different app when Slack was

doing what we wanted it to do.

So when these apps are getting
updates more people are using them.

They get more feedback, They're adapting.

So we could see apps becoming more useful,
better rather than just being particularly

functional for one or two reasons.

James: They're growing much quicker.

They seem to be getting a lot of seed
money in more than often, I think

ClickUp has just received a, another
huge amounts of money to, to invest into

that platform because of the uptake.

And reliability now, I think has to be
key, but they are, they're changing at a

huge rate before that it's tools would,
would be very much stuck at what they

did or the goals that they were achieving
and wouldn't change that quickly.

It seems that now the rate of change.

It could backfire because the expectations
of the consumers and the users of these

tools, but these tools are coming about
very, very quickly and being developed

very, very quickly with new features, with
new updates, which is great from our point

of view, because we're getting new stuff
that is helping us become more productive.

Certainly in terms of, you
know, the likes of ClickUp.

Paul: One thing I was going to say about
social commerce is that we've seen A

shift from massive influencer advertising.

So you get someone like Kim Kardashian,
they were advertising big brands.

They were getting paid millions and
millions to do it which is brilliant for

them profiting off their social media.

But as far as our target markets
are going, they were hitting millions

of millions of followers, tens of
millions of followers, and probably

2% were company's target market.

So they're bringing their advertising
now to more relative people smaller

accounts, but they're more targeted.

Jamie: Yeah.

hundred percent I think.

And that's a really, really interesting
point because in the last, I'd say 12 to

18 months has been a big swing by social
platforms, but also by brands looking

to work with more engaged audiences
rather than higher follow accounts,

I think we will realize nowadays that
follow the numbers can be bought.

They can be unengaged, they
can just be a vanity metric.

Whereas if you have a smaller
audience or a more engaged, that

is so much more valuable to brands.

So the inception of nano influencers
and micro-influencers even though

this influencer world seems to be
lingering about, will just help

brands reach who's important.

and kind of really tap into
brand's buyer personas.

So even more reason to get your
buyer persona right if you're

looking to go into the influencer
marketing space, because then you

can identify with who they're looking
for, and also a little bonus point.

If you're going to work with any
influencer, make sure you get that media

care so you know what you're getting.

James: I think you completely, right.

I think, I think it's more legit now as
well like having real-world stories, if

you look at the new Apple advertising
that they've done with the apple watch,

which one person is unconscious.

I think the other one's in
the car, they are very much.

Pulling on emotions.

So they're very much gone for
that emotional state, but you

seeing yourself in that position.

Whereas I think with influencers,
you, aren't going to see yourself.

Certainly with those, with those bigger
celebrities, you can't see yourself in

their shoes, but you do see it and kind
of like all, if they've got one, I want

one, but I think now we've shifted.

I think we're a lot clever.

I think we want to really
engage with, with the real and

see, well, actually they've.

Because of having that problem and
that need, and I think coming back to

that, and it's what, you know, inbound
marketing, what we've always focused

on is proving over time and time again
focusing down on their needs, their

requirements and their challenges.

You're always gonna win.

And yeah, I think it's just now becoming
more social media is going that way again.

I think with social commerce,

Jamie: I think while while we're on
there if Heights or Whoop want to

reach out to James, I'm sure he would
happily test a nano influencing,

James: Absolutely.

Yep.

Will, want to get on the next podcast or
anybody from Heights, then just tap me up.

We'll get you on the next podcast.

Jamie: What do we think
hasn't changed guys?

Because there's a lot of,
there's a lot of rate of change.

There's a lot of speed of change,
but what do we think that business

owners, entrepreneurs, even marketing
teams what can they stay true to?

Paul: Being personable, staying human.

Being able to contact a company, speaking
to a real person, that's never going to,

I always want to speak to a real person
if I've got a customer service enquiry.

That, that sorts my problem out because
it might not understand fully and talking

to a bot firsthand, it's fine as long as
then you get to a real person afterwards.

James: Yeah.

So with that, I think
you're exactly right.

I think bots can, they've got their place,
which is very much to take the masses and

filter that down to the right relevant
people in the particular departments.

I think that's where they've mainly got
that place or to give you a quick know,

I can't log in or this isn't working
well, here you go, here's your answer?

Did that help?

Yes or no?

No.

Here's somebody I think is going to
help because these bigger organizations,

when you get to that level, you're
getting so many enquiries it's tough.

We though had or I had an interaction
with bringing up Heights again where I

wanted to know whether some other some
other pills that I was taking would have

any effect, so it was actually some some
pre and probiotics that I take daily.

I wanted to make sure that when I was
taking Heights and their supplements

that they weren't going to clash.

So they said, oh, reach
out and we'll help you.

And you know, when you're thinking
in the back of your head really, are

you, but I filled it in, sent it off.

And I got an email back from one
of the nutritionalists saying,

yeah, we've looked into both of
the products that you're using.

There's no crossover you'll have
absolutely no issues, blah, blah,

blah, and sent an amazing email back
that I was completely blown away by.

From a customer relationship point
of view, I felt so much it kind of

gratitude towards them for taking my
query seriously enough to spend a decent

amount of time to come back to me.

And I've already bought from
them, but they wanted me to be

satisfied, but it was beyond that.

This was very much what
we always come back to.

You know, it was spending that
time on helping I was absolutely

blown away by that as a consequence
for them, you know, what's going

to happen if you're doing that to
consumers, are you then just going to.

We've mentioned them now, four
or five times within the podcast.

It's going to happen because
you're going to then pass this

on to everybody who you speak to.

I've had a great experience.

I can't believe how good this was.

I can't believe how good the product is.

It's a no brainer really?

When it comes to marketing, if you're
looking after your customers, Which

I think is, is generally the little
businesses know it because they have to,

they survive on the, on the lower numbers.

They have to look out for those customers
as companies grow, this is often

forgotten about, but I think Heights
in this instance were really showing

off that and showing the power and how
it should be with customer service.

Jamie: So I think obviously that
really nails kind of personalization

and the importance of it going forward
and can't really see that changing,

something else I want to kind of get
both of your opinions on, because

one, you know, more about that.

But automations and how this can save
people, business owners time, and actually

just allow business to run better.

What are your thoughts on that?

I know you're obviously you're both
big advocates of HubSpot rightfully so.

Jump on that topic.

Let's open that can up.

James: So automation has its place
for anything that is repetitive

anytime the boring stuff.

We don't want to do it time and
time and time and time and time

again, and rinse and repeat.

All it is is wasting our time.

Not everything can be automated.

But if we focused on what we know very,
very well, and that is around nurturing

it's around that type of automation in
terms of marketing, digital marketing,

lead generation, all that good stuff.

Pretty much all of that journey of turning
somebody from prospect into an opportunity

into a customer, and then further on
from that into essentially an evangelist

almost if you like, what Heights have
turned me into, that whole process

can be automated, all of those touch
points can be automated if they've done

something over so many times, or they've
downloaded something, then they should

go into some kind of automation where
we are, we're communicating with them.

But, exactly as we've touched on before.

I don't want stuff that is unhelpful.

I don't want stuff that isn't relevant.

It has to still come back to
that, that being personal.

And we're not talking
about being robotic here.

We're talking about, you know, we want
automation to be super personal and

super helpful, and that can be automated.

You could also automate those sales
emails that we all send all day long.

It's the same thing, we're
asking the same questions, we're

trying to get the same goals.

We're trying to get the same information
from a prospect or a lead, but we will

type that email out again and again
and again, and again and again, when,

if actually, if we change that into
a sequence or into a template, we can

use that, but then what's, what's good
about automation is we can report on it.

So it's not only saving us time
and effort in the process itself.

But so once it's done, we can rinse
and repeat it, but we can then report

back on it because we have got data
that is going through these processes

that we can say, do you know what this
is working, this isn't working, why?

Whereas if you're doing that all manually,
you can't step back and understand

that data and realize yeah, I mean,
Paul, you help us out a lot with the,

with the automation with HubSpot, what
are you finding we're doing a lot of,

at the moment for some of our clients.

Paul: I think a good example of the
automation that we do which is partly

robotic and then turns into personable is
if somebody downloads one of our resources

once say filled out a form an automatic
email goes out to them with the resource

on where they can download, a couple
of days later, they'll get an automated

email through a workflow that sends
them another resource that's relevant.

That could be a good follow-up to the
initial resource that they download it.

Couple of days after that, we can
also send them another resource

or just to check in email, or
if you've got any questions.

A couple of days after that, maybe
a week after they've downloaded

the resource, so it's given them
a bit of time to look at it.

A task is set up then for
James to give them a call.

So then they've gone from very
automatic robotic emails a few days

after each other to somebody's ringing
them up and asking them if they got

any problems, if that certain problem
they're trying to figure out, it's not

a sales call, it's very much have our
resources helped you solve your problem.

Is there anything else
we can do to help you?

So I think it's a bit of half And
half, so it starts off automated

and with a friendly phone call to
check in and see how it's going.

James: And I think they
can grow as well over time.

So you can have ifs and buts, if
you like where you can drop in and

out of those of those automations,
if certain actions happen.

So as we grow or understand a
customer or a prospect or lead, we

can change what actually happens to
them through that nurturing journey.

So it doesn't have to
be this linear pattern.

It generally starts very linear because
you've got to start somewhere when

you're building up these automations,
but over time it can become very

organic that they are dipping in they're
dipping out depending on other actions

that they are taking or things that
they're doing in a digital environment.

Paul: I think it's yeah, like
you say, it's not set in stone.

We're learning all the time.

And if something's not working or if we
think something else would work better, we

can then edit the workflows add stuff in
take stuff out to make it more relevant.

Jamie: So for anyone who's listening,
who has found that really, really

interesting, but may have completely
gone over your head do by all means,

look to book a call, to speak to James.

He loves talking about HubSpot.

He loves talking about automation and
he can sort that stuff out for you.

So if it sounds great, but you're thinking
grrrrr okay, but not sure where to go

now that's probably your next move.

One of the things I want to discuss and
get your guys' opinion on is value added.

There's been a lot of noise on social
media and traditional media, whether

it's email marketing, whether it is
in-person event and it's all about

making sure that people are adding
value to their customer's lives.

Obviously we've banged on a little bit
about buyer persona which is really

important because how you identify what's
important to the people who matter.

Value creation is something
else that hasn't changed.

The most important thing as a
business is that you add value

to your ideal customer's lives.

There are various different models for
it, but like a very simple thing on

social media is you should be adding
value, 80% of the time and then the 20%

of the time, maybe promotional stuff
like sharing a link to a new downloadable

or a new blog post or a podcast.

So make sure you check out
socials that's pops then.

But it's making sure that whatever
problems, whether it's using a product

or if it's just in their day-to-day
life, but around your product, around

your industry, you are adding that
bit of value that is being helpful.

You're building that relationship
that trust is getting greater.

And then when it comes to
buying time, your customers

will only be going to one place.

What are your guys' take on value?

Paul: Everything we should do should
help our customers or people who are

leads to try and sort of identify
and help with their problems.

James and I were in a HubSpot
Course, which is all about sales.

And the teaching basically was you don't
phone up somebody to sell them stuff.

You phone them up to see
if they've got a problem.

See if you can help them.

If you don't get a sale
out of it, that's fine.

You've helped them in the future when
they have a bigger problem or they

haven't been able to solve their problem.

Where are they going to go to,
they're going to go to somebody

who's helped them before.

And if you're that person who's helped
them before they'll come in this, help

them before they're, going to come
back to you because, okay, you didn't

make the sale the first time but a year
down the line, you might have a bigger

sale, they might have grown as company.

So yeah, we've all had sales call on
our phones where it's just somebody

talking at you for five minutes and
you've just not got time for it,

and it's wasting everyone's time.

They know that 99 times out of
a hundred, they're not going

to make a sale out of it.

So why not just be helpful?

James: I agree.

I think, I think we've had one scenario
that happens all the time with us.

If people will phone up and they have
heard about us and they want us to help

with some strategy or it could be anything
actually, to be honest, We've had people

phone up and they're kind of going, right.

We want, we've got X amount.

We're doing this with it at the moment.

And it's working.

And we will say, well, hang on a minute.

If it's working, if it's all going
very, very well why'd you want to

take that budget and give it to us to
come up with some kind of strategy or

something else and they just wanted
reassurance that what they had done by

themselves was the right way of doing it.

And in this instance, I'm
thinking of it was all around.

It was all around pay-per-click
and they were putting their money

into pay-per-click to target
their, their buyer personas.

And I said, absolutely nothing wrong
with what you're doing, but they didn't

have any other budgets at that time
because they were very small and to

be able to improve that would mean
reducing their pay per click campaign,

allocating that money somewhere else.

So which I said, well, hang on a minute,
you are hitting your capacity just

through this one pay-per-click campaign.

If you're looking for growth and you
want to change your business and you are

taking on somebody else, then you could
possibly just increase that pay-per-click

campaign, if it's working well, then
you should bring in more customers

and the more business through it.

Why change that?

And again, I think it was, as I
said, it was just down to them

wanting somebody else to tell them
that what they were doing was right.

So I had a call with them to understand
the business, to understand how

it was working for about an hour.

Didn't charge for it.

And we got absolutely glowing review
from them on Google reviews and

in the future, when they do grow.

I would quite happily put down
some money that, where they're

going to go for that advice.

Again, they're going to come back to us
when their budgets have increased and when

they are looking to grow that company.

And that's what it's about.

I'm not upset at all that I have
just helped a local company grow.

And increase their turnover because
it's what we have always set out as

our goal, our goal, as odd as this is
going to sound isn't to make shit ton

of money, it is to help companies grow.

Now we have to make.

Because unfortunately I need
to pay bills as does everybody

else, but that isn't our goal.

Our goal isn't to make money.

It's kind of almost a by-product of our
real goal, which is to help companies.

But to be a company, to be a successful
company, you have to add in some

kind of monetary system to that,
but we're sticking to our goals.

We are helping companies and as
a consequence our clients pay

us money to help them because
they can see that benefit.

Paul: So jumping in, I lost count
of the amount of times I've spoken

to friends or leads about Method.

I'm sort of proud to work for the company.

Like James said, it's not all about money.

I've spoken to so many people and
I said, we can help you, like James

said if you've got a small budget and
you ring up and say, this is working

I want to pile more money into it.

James will say, well, where
are you having problems?

What's blocking you from doing other
stuff and he'll dig down and find problems

in the company or their strategies, and
almost redirect that money to something

that is going to help them more.

I've had friends ring
up James, just to have.

And James is happy to have a chat
with them for an hour or two,

just to sort of give them advice.

If it's something we can't help with,
we're honest, we will say look we can't

help you with that, or we're not the
best avenue to spend your money on yet.

Which is adding value because other
companies, will just take the money

and run and you will get nothing from
that, whereas we can help you along

the way we can give you the advice.

If it's not spending money with us,
it's not spending money with us,

down the line when they've got a
bigger budget, they might come back

and say they were really helpful.

Well I want to give them the money to help
get them to help me increase my business.

James: I think there's also a big point
here, which is time-wasting and I think

we're long in the tooth now and understand
the difference between somebody who

genuinely will give us something back
through spending an hour of my time with

them over somebody who I can spend an hour
talking to who is just reaping as much as

they possibly can out of our expertise.

And there is a big, big
difference there genuinely.

If we are helping companies grow,
who wants to kind of learn, of

us and appreciate what we're doing.

And I think that comes
back to any company.

You know, if you're working with people
who don't appreciate what you're doing

or what you're trying to achieve with
them, then it's probably not a good fit.

Now we will have people phone up
who you can tell straight away.

You just want to get something for nothing
that's not what we're talking about here.

We're talking about helping companies
who really have a desire to do something

and want to flex their muscles, but
don't necessarily know how, or can't

really get on that journey straight away.

Now we will also talk to big organizations
around some strategy and spend some

time with them, but that is a completely
different conversation because again,

they want our expertise, but are in the
position where they can actually pay for

that hour or pay for those two hours.

so I think Understanding the difference
between helping somebody who is not a

time-waster, and helping somebody who is
genuine, you will always get something

back, even if it's a review, even if it's.

It's there's the traditional,
you scratch my back and

something will always come of it.

Again, it takes time to maybe
understand where those time-wasters are.

And who just wants to take advantage
of you and I think a lot could be said

about that throughout the whole of life.

Jamie: Yeah, I think that's a really
interesting insight from both of you.

In terms of that value added and
making sure, obviously you're

giving it to the right people, but
you're also not pigeonholing anyone.

So it's kind of wrap this one
up keep it brisk into the pace.

I just want to kind of go around and see
what you're thinking is the most exciting

element for business in 2022, I'll kick
us off and say, I can't wait to see how

businesses innovate, how they adapt to
the next normal that the world's entering,

we see more businesses digitise online
experiences from tasting sessions to

cocktail making with their friends, to
digital experiences, safari via zoom.

All of these kinds of things are
really interesting so I can't wait

to see the mix great people and what
they do, that's kind of from me.

So James, I come over to you.

What, what are you looking forward to?

James: I agree.

And I think you've probably nicked
everybody's idea there of of what

everybody was just about to say
Jamie I think you're exactly right.

I think all businesses have had
to change over the last two years.

I think some people have had to get
things in place very, very quickly.

I think now we've had
a chance to step back.

So all I'm doing on this is just
adding the cherry on top of exactly

what you've just said, we haven't
had time to implement things,

we've had to rush into a lot of
business changes very, very quickly.

So I think kind of building on what you've
said, I think now we've had this time

and we've now got this time to, okay.

It's in place.

How can we improve that?

What's next for that particular business.

I'm genuinely quite excited about 2022.

I think a lot is going to
come out of it in terms of a

digital avenues, a dead end.

So not a lot's going to come
out of a digital avenue.

I'm excited about what's going to come
out of 20 22 and all of the, the new

innovation that's going to have to appear.

So.

Yeah, I think from my point of
view, I think it's businesses, which

now I've got that room to grow.

They've done the initial, what we had to
do that they've done that firefighting

it's now that next level, this is where
the clever stuff was going to start that.

Paul: Yeah, I agree straightaway
with Jamie and James that there

were enforced changes over COVID.

There were businesses that had
to change or they would collapse.

Now they have changed and
they were forced to change.

They can realize that they are
able to change their business.

The fears gone in change so I've quite
excited to see what happens with the

innovation of companies changing now
through choice rather than a necessity.

Another thing quite excited to
see is a lot of startup companies

over COVID, a lot of people lost
their jobs or were furloughed.

And a lot of people weren't just twiddling
their thumbs at home taking the 80% of

their wages, they were thinking of new
businesses or that little dream that

they've had for a while, or they've
had the time and money to realize

those, some of them are going to take
off a lot of them are going to fail.

That's just business, but it would
be interesting to see what started in

lockdown as a project that it could
become a national multinational company.

Jamie: Well, they went and finally
say subscribe to the podcast.

Right?

Paul: and follow their buyer personas
and their smart marketing goals.

Jamie: Excellent.

James: Lovely.

Cheers.

Both.

Thanks for your time.

Hopefully again, it was something
useful, slightly longer episode this

time, but obviously when you get three
guys talking generally what happens

if you have any questions for me On
my email, [e-mail].

Also jump onto our website where some
of the stuff that we've been discussing

today, I think buyer personas,
there's a nice little resource on our

website, which is hello, method.co.uk.

Make sure you follow us
across the social media.

I think we're on pretty much all of them,
some of which I don't even know exist.

So until next time stay open-minded
and we'll see you again soon.