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From Country to Courts hosted by Mike Hammond, radio veteran, Country Radio Hall of Fame inductee, and longtime Criminal Court Clerk.
This podcast explores the vital issues at the heart of our courts and criminal justice system in a way that’s clear and compelling.
Each episode will dive into insights on how the court system works, what citizens can expect if they ever find themselves in court, and the programs and services many never hear about, like Veterans Recovery Court, Mental Health Court, and driver's license reinstatement programs.
Whether you’re facing a legal issue, serving jury duty, or just curious about what happens behind courtroom doors, From Country to Courts offers real world context and practical information to help you better understand the justice system and your place in it.
Mike: Hello everyone, and welcome again to another edition of From Country to the Courts. I’m Knox County Criminal Court Clerk, Mike Hammond, and my guest today is the city of Knoxville Municipal Judge, Tyler Caviness. Judge Caviness, Thank you so much for taking time to join us here today.
Judge Caviness: No, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here and get a chance to talk about what we’re doing over at the court.
Mike: Most of the time, people do not differentiate between the courts. They just know, okay, I’ve got to go to court. But there is a Municipal Court, which is the city of Knoxville, and then there’s, of course, the General Sessions, Criminal, and all the courts that are here in the city county building. So, first of all, let’s talk about the Municipal Court and what your jurisdiction is.
Judge Caviness: Sure. So, we handle any cases that are cited under the city of Knoxville's municipal ordinances. And so, broadly speaking, a lot of people would think of us as traffic court. And that’s not wrong. I’d say about 65% of what we handle on a day-to-day basis is just related to the safety of our roadways in Knoxville.
But then the other part of what we handle is really, I think about it as, sort of, community well-being issues. And so, these are things like property issues, the upkeep of property, or animal-related issues, such as, you know, the upkeep or not upkeep of animals. But then also, we do deal with some sort of regulatory code-related issues within the city as well.
Mike: I know that my interaction with the City Court is usually parking tickets, [laugh] and so I always get those paid on time too, by the way. But let’s talk about parking tickets because I’m sure a number of people, particularly since they have started the new system here in Knox County, you don’t put coins in the meter anymore, but you go online and do that type of thing. So, how many parking tickets would you say that you process during the course of a week or a month?
Judge Caviness: So, that’s a very good question, and probably I’m actually the wrong person to answer that. The truth is that my court administrator, Holly Marlowe, handles a lot of the administrative side of the parking tickets, and so what I see more on a day-to-day basis, would be those folks who have appealed their parking tickets and then set a court date to come to court. And for that answer, the numbers are going down as the public is just getting more familiar with the process. In the beginning, we would see upwards of maybe 15 people a week who felt that they had wrongly received a parking ticket and wanted a court date to come and talk about it. And now we’re seeing that’s down to more between five or ten or even fewer, sometimes.
Mike: That makes sense because if I get my parking ticket and I pay it, you’re never going to see that, you know? That’s just going through the administrative process, as you said. But if you want to appeal it, what would be some of the grounds to appeal a parking ticket?
Judge Caviness: I can tell you, perhaps what people think are grounds, and then what some of the perhaps more legally viable grounds are. So, right now, what we’ve been seeing is just as we’ve moved into this new system—and anybody who’s been following the news over the last six months or parked downtown has seen that it is a different process. As you said, there’s no more just paying a meter; there’s an app that you download. And in my experience, that process is both reliable and also pretty user friendly once you get it initially set up. But there have been times where someone, for example, might enter their plate number wrong into the app.
Instead of a zero, they hit a one, or they leave off one of their digits, and we’ll have appeals where that’s the grounds of their appeals: “I paid for my parking,” and they don’t necessarily realize what the error was. They just know I paid for parking, I still got a ticket. And frequently, when they come to court, that’s more of just an opportunity to educate people. And if there’s a valid parking session, but it’s just a mistake like that, especially as we’ve been transitioning into this new system, we’re giving people some grace on that and just using it as an opportunity to explain here’s where you messed up, and here’s why you did get the ticket.
But some of the better—or perhaps more successful—reasons that somebody might appeal a parking ticket is the city’s had some growing pains, too, in implementing the new system. There’s been some signage that perhaps wasn’t as clear as it should have been, or just as the application has been implemented, there have been some zones that the city intended it to be a no parking zone, but someone was able to still go in and actually pay for a parking session. And so oftentimes, what it comes down to, one way or another, whether it’s the user error for the public or a growing pain or error on the city’s part from the administrative side of things, that’s where we’ve seen some appeals that were legitimate appeals and you shouldn’t have gotten that ticket.
Mike: Some of the things that you just mentioned, and that is codes enforcement. The city of Knoxville has a number of ordinances with regards to codes, and if there’s a violation of those codes, normally that would come to your office. What would you say is the most frequent code violation in your office?
Judge Caviness: I think that the city, from what we’ve seen, the city does try to handle those without bringing them to court, if they can. I can’t say that this is their official policy because I’m not a part of that office, but what I’ve seen is that they do frequently try to resolve those informally with the citizen before having to actually issue a citation and then bring it to court. But in those cases where there has been a citation issued and it’s been brought to court, I’d say it’s about equal—in terms of the most cited cases—equally between just general property upkeep issues, someone who, for one reason or another, is not keeping their property in a well-maintained state, but then there are also some issues related to building code violations where a structure has been built that wasn’t up to code, or the permit process wasn’t followed before building that structure, and then the city will—it ultimately goes through the court process to try to resolve that and get it up to code.
Mike: I know that sometimes people will come to our counter and they will give us a citation that is green. At that point, we say, “Oops, you need to go over to the city,” because people don’t really understand. And then, of course, if it’s pink or yellow, then that means it’s general sessions. Could you talk about the differences in the colors and how people need to be—that way, they don’t come here and pay for parking; they can immediately go to where they need to go.
Judge Caviness: Certainly, on the flip side of things, we certainly end up having people come to our office and sending them to you. And thankfully, you know, our offices communicate and work together so well, we’re almost—well I’ll say, nearly always able to get someone sorted out one way or another. The color differences aside, which you’re right about the color difference, there is a box at the bottom of the citation that the officer is going to check that has your court date on it, the time to appear, and it has the address to appear. And what folks should look at and pay attention to is, if it’s at 400 Main Street, that’s a county ticket, and if it’s at 1650 Huron Street, that’s at the city of Knoxville public safety complex, where the Municipal Court is located.
Mike: You have gotten—well, first of all, I want to ask you about your Night Court because not a lot of places—I know in Knox County, we don’t have Night Court, but you do in the Municipal Court. Tell us about that.
Judge Caviness: So, Night Court was something that Judge Ross, and I believe the previous judge, I believe that was something that he actually started. And the idea behind it is, you know, folks work, they have childcare obligations, and coming to court at nine o’clock, or, you know, 8:30, 8:45 is just not always realistic for people. And so, you know, what we deal with in City Court is very important. I mean, for example, the safety of our roadways, that’s something that’s going to impact the citizens of Knoxville on a day-to-day basis, hopefully much more than you know some of the things your courts deal with, violent crimes and drugs and things like that. Hopefully the average citizen is not encountering that on a day-to-day basis in the way that they are just the drive on their way home to work.
But we also recognize, you know, we’re not trying to prevent you from being able to take your kid to daycare because you have a speeding ticket. And so, just having alternatives to be able to come to court outside of what might be traditional working hours just furthers our goal of trying to make this a community-focused court and trying to recognize what the needs of the public are.
Mike: The driver’s license fair. I want to touch on that because that has become extremely successful. It has actually become something that they talk about all across the state. We were at the clerk’s conference last week, and I believe Putnam County is going to begin one. I know the Coffee County has already indicated a strong interest.
And of course, the driver’s license fair was started because we had a number of people in Knox County driving without a valid driver’s license. And then after you came on board, you said, “Hey, I would like to be a part of that,” because we would have a lot of people who would come who maybe owed things to the city, and at that point, we couldn’t really help them. But now when we do the driver’s license fair, the fact that you’re here, your staff is here, it really is now a one-stop shop.
Judge Caviness: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, anytime I have a chance to talk about it, I love talking about it, and I almost always start by making sure that I give you proper credit for the idea. I mean, it’s just such a classic example of recognizing a need in the community, recognizing that our previous approach, which was tried for decades, you know, wasn’t working. And you know, I felt so just lucky, fortunate that you had kind of paved the way for us to be able to come in and, you know, we recognized the same need, but we didn’t have to reinvent the wheel because you were already doing it. And so, what I felt like our partnership was able to accomplish was really just an effort multiplier for the people of Knoxville.
Because as you said, you know, I think the numbers, when the city partnered with the county, you all had been doing it for a couple years before us—or a couple or few years before us—but when we got involved, I think the number was around 70 or 75,000 unlicensed drivers in Knoxville and Knox County. The last number I heard, sometime in the last six or eight months, was that we were perhaps down in the high 50,000s now, which is still a huge number, and that’s not only due to our efforts, but I like to think we helped. But recognizing that we have an incredible number of unlicensed drivers in Knoxville and Knox County, recognizing the reality that legal obstacles are for many of those people, not all of them, but for many of those people, the reason that they don’t have a valid license, and also recognizing that we would actually really rather have those folks have a driver’s license so that they can be more productive members of the community, so that they can stop realistically violating the law every time they get in their car. Because, as you said, they’re still driving. I mean, they still have all the basic needs of life that a driver’s license, we kind of take for granted. But you know, these folks are still out every day, driving without a driver’s license, and so how can we take a different approach to help these people move on and, you know, just accomplish what ultimately they’re able to in our community?
Mike: It’s very gratifying when we see people come out of court after they have appeared before you and some of the others, and they’ve talked to you and you have made your decision about, you know, their fines, and then if they need to do an eye test, the Department of Safety is here, if they need to do a road test, or their written test, we also look at, you know, what other charges they may have, and that type of thing, it’s very gratifying when you see people come out and they get that license that day. They start crying. I mean, people don’t realize just how important that piece of plastic is because it’s an ID, but it also, I think, gives people that sense of accomplishment. They have accomplished something. And to me, that really helps them with self-esteem.
Judge Caviness: Absolutely and… it seems fundamentally like such a simple concept that the city and the county and the state would all work together to accomplish this goal. And I don’t think that in the past, it was that, you know, all these organizations, it’s not as if we didn’t care about accomplishing this goal, but you know, all the barriers that were in place, the logistical barriers, the issues of just how can we get the judges and the administrative side of things and the Department of Safety all in the same room to work on the problem that they’re all encountering, that did take a lot of effort, but that’s what we’re now able to do. And that’s a wonderful partnership, as you said. I mean, on these driver’s license event days, we’re able to get people registered ahead of time, your staff and my staff are able to work together to help identify what the barriers are for these folks. That way, when they show up the day of we can point them in the right direction, get them where they need to go, and then once they’ve been able to see judges and work with your staff to address what the legal side of things are—work with your staff and my staff—the last stop is literally the Department of Safety at the city county building.
And I mean, when folks talk about needing to go to the DMV, I mean, I think at the last event, there were eight or ten staff members from the Tennessee Department of Safety at the event that day. And as you mentioned, they have all their computers set up, they have their vision tests set up, we have a process for drivers to do a road test. And recognizing that although many of the folks without a driver’s license are out in the world driving, a lot of them also aren’t, and so just even something like getting from courthouse to courthouse to the DMV, that’s a real barrier for people, a real, practical barrier for people to move forward. Even if they want to, that’s very hard. And so, being able to just get everybody in the same room working together for the same goal, I think, is really, really a wonderful thing that we’re able to do.
Mike: I think it’s important to really emphasize the fact that people, they’ll call me, or they’ll see me, or they’re saying, “Hey, I’m going to come see you and get my license.” Say, “Well, you’re welcome to come, but I can’t give you your license.” [laugh]. It’s a process, and so I think that’s something that people really need to understand, is that it’s just not say, “Hey, let me call Judge Caviness and get my license,” we can set you up for the fair, and we can get you involved, but there are some steps that people need to go through.
Judge Caviness: And even things like, what both of us have been doing with our offices, sometimes, folks, you know, there will be forms that the state needs that need to be notarized, and the truth is, before I was a lawyer, I mean, where do I go to get a notary? I mean, that’s something that if you don’t know, or if that’s not something you’ve had to deal with very often, even that, in and of itself, is a barrier to reentry or to getting your driver’s license back. And so, you know, as part of our efforts, if we recognize that you need those forms and you’re there at the courthouse, we know where to find them online, we know where to get them, we know what you need, and as long as you, I mean, ultimately, the citizen just needs to sign in and fill out their side of the information, and we’ll notarize it for them, and they’re ready to go to the Department of Safety with that document, and then any other documents they need. And it is perhaps simpler than people—or more straightforward—than people realize from the outside looking in, but there are still a lot of just different things you have to do dealing with different parts of the government to get this driver’s license. And as much as we can streamline that for people, I think it’s really important we do that. And we have been doing that.
Mike: We have. And I want to say thank you for you and your team for working with us because it’s a great partnership, and the people who benefit are the citizens because they leave with their license, they now have an ID, like I said, the self-esteem to me, it’s amazing to see people after they get that license. I mean, you can just see it in their face, just that sense of accomplishment that they have. So, I can’t thank you enough and your staff for being a part of it. And I want to say thank you for coming and being a part of this podcast.
Judge Caviness: Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. I’m really proud of the work that we’re doing, what we’re doing together, and just partnering with the Department of Safety, partnering with these other counties who want to replicate what we’re doing and help the citizens of their counties and cities. I agree a hundred percent with what you said. The point of all of this is just to try to help our community, and so really glad for what we’ve been able to do, and I’m excited for what we’re going to continue to do.
Mike: Well, our producer is Maddie Tuggle. I’m Mike Hammond. Thanks again to Judge Caviness for being our guest today. This is From Country to the Courts.
Mike: This has been From Country to the Courts. I appreciate your listening. You can follow me on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, don’t forget to give me a five-star review on the app of your choice. Thanks, and I’ll see you on the next episode.