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The home for the Violent People audio projects without a place to live. Whether it be one-off experiments or by-design, short-lived series.
Host (00:02)
All right. With me I have Max Payne and Joe Dombrowski. How you two doing tonight?
Maxx Payne (00:11)
Fantastic. How you doing, Dan?
Joe Dombrowski (00:12)
Very well. Thank you for having us.
Host (00:15)
Awesome, awesome. ⁓ we're just gonna get right into it because you're releasing Joe, you're releasing Max's the thing that should not be. And I think people that listen to the show mostly will know that I've been in tape trading way too long. I was like 10 years old going to the post office, mailing off money orders when I shouldn't have been, the grown men. So they would send me tapes. So I've been vaguely aware of this for a long time, but but Joe went.
I I assume you as well. Like you've always kind of known this thing was out there just waiting to be released.
Joe Dombrowski (00:48)
You know, I I probably learned about it later than a lot of people. I wasn't really ⁓ super engrossed with with the tape trading community back in its heyday. I was kind of a a late bloomer in that respect. But I I first saw the thing that should not be trailer at some point when it was on YouTube, probably about at this point twelve or fifteen years ago.
And as I did more research I realized this is something that's been, you know, kind of teased and kinda out there in the ethos for ⁓ you know, upwards of twenty five years. But it really piqued my curiosity as a as a storyteller, as a fan, you know. I was nine years old when this footage was shot. As somebody that that kind of prides himself on knowing a lot of the ins and outs and what's out there. This was such a blind spot for me.
And I I realized, you know, at that point, like, I have to know. I need more information about this. And I remember, you know, talking to Shane Douglas about it, who had no idea and he's in it. So I I knew this was s a pretty special piece of footage. And it wasn't until circumstances put me and Max in the same place ⁓ in Dallas, Texas for WrestleCon twenty twenty two that I actually
officially started on the journey to to learning about this and and ultimately you know being an an editor and producer as a part of putting this out.
Host (02:23)
And Max, I assume from your I assume that from your point of view, this Joe's not the first person to discuss releasing this with you, correct?
Maxx Payne (02:34)
Yeah, there's been a lot of there's been a lot of horseshit people rolling and out. You know, Joe's the first guy that has stuck through me with me through thick and thin. And you know, it it's I I I realized ⁓ i it's kind of funny because what he says is we we met via circumstances of somebody else who
was threatening to be involved and in the end he took a powder. And ⁓ this is ha this had happened to me over and over again with it. And so Joe's, you know, been that guy that, you know, he he's the first guy with enough integrity that when he says he's gonna do something, he does something. And that that's that's a little hard to find in the wrestling business sometimes.
Host (03:32)
⁓ but yeah, because this footage now, I mean, like you talk about your Bret Hart versus Tom McGee's, the last battle of Atlanta, the Hawkinschmidt footage, like these were all holy grails in the sense that we didn't even know if they were really out there, if they had been taped over or or if the footage is never out there. This was the kind of thing where we all knew you had it. I just I I a long time ago said he's not allowed to release it. It'll never come out. ⁓ so
Maxx Payne (03:58)
Yeah. Yeah.
Host (04:00)
W we were we all just wrong and that you always could have released it and you you just have been waiting for the right partner?
Maxx Payne (04:06)
⁓ you know, I I've used this before. I'm a big fan of the cosmic tumbler line from ⁓ from ⁓ Field of Dreams. And ⁓ it it just it it just wasn't right. And none of the other ⁓ I knew that this story n needed some time and ⁓ hey, you live in Kentucky to ⁓
soak in an oak barrel in Kentucky for thirty-one years before it was gonna be ready to to finally come out, you know? And I really mean that. It it just it it's it it it wasn't time and it just never felt it never felt right. And now with ⁓ Unreal going down and you know Triple H's
plays. I just all of the all of the cosmic tumblers seem to have dropped into the right formation. And ⁓ Joe happened to be the guy, you know, he he reminds me of ⁓ he reminds me of the Ray Leota character. He's that guy that, you know, that that put it all together and and made it happen. So, you know, ⁓ other than the fact that he's not dead, ⁓ and we're in a
Yankees uniform from nineteen eighteen or whatever it is. He's almost just like Ray Leo and Filled of Dreams. No, it yeah, it's it it just wasn't you know, and the other side of it is and I mean this really from the bottom of my heart. I wanted to build the intrigue and the mystery for as long as humanly possible before it did finally come out, because I I always believed that that would only make it that much more interesting to those
who were still interested in you know the wrestling business from so long ago.
Host (06:09)
I can say personally, when Joe tweeted it out, I was sitting and I stood up. I I I didn't, I like I said, I had given up hope that we'd ever see this footage. ⁓ so I'm I'm very excited. so so WrestleCon 2022 is what you were saying, Joe, is when you guys got together. At that point, I guess like from a nuts and bolts perspective, like what is it just a
Maxx Payne (06:16)
Really?
Host (06:32)
Hours and hours of footage is the documentary portion already cut and you're doing extra features? What's what's that like?
Joe Dombrowski (06:40)
I mean th the the conversation in twenty twenty two was just basically, you know, ⁓ the same thing that that that you've been speculating that everybody's expect where is this? What will we ever see it? And ⁓ once I, you know, told Max like here's who I am, here's what I do, here's how I can help the process, ⁓ it really got the the ball rolling. And you know, what ⁓
what I saw was, you know, very raw. And and one of the phrases that we use a lot i in the marketing and in the course of this presentation is real raw rare. And ⁓ what it was at that time was still you know very raw unedited footage that needed a outside storyteller perspective to
kind of take that from the frightening place that is Max's brain and make it palatable to all those normal people out there. and ⁓ I I I think I think we did a very good job collectively at taking what was, you know, in essence the world's first vlog.
you know, w wrestling's first video diary. And putting a a narrative to that where it's not just, hey, here's me on a road trip, it's a time capsule into what the business was like in nineteen ninety five, when the company is losing money, when payoffs are at an all time low, when travel is at an absolute breakneck pace, when
the tox the culture is still very toxic and there's a lot of excess in how the talent ⁓ lives and medicates and enjoys themselves. So ⁓ i in in some ways it's nostalgic, in some ways it's cautionary. ⁓ and and as this grew, it turned into, well, it's not just Max's eye view. It's not just
Max's perspective in the interview, it's well, Henry Godwin's in this, Shane Douglas is in this, Tony Guerrilla is in this. Let's show them this footage and see what they remember from the tour and what they remember from that time. So even though you have one movie, you're able to watch it from the perspective of five or six different people once you get through all the extra features, as far as just
what was going on in their mind, how did they think their career was going? Were they dealing with injuries? ⁓ did they have political issues? ⁓ and all that together really gives you a a a stark contrast because there's people I talked to that loved this tour and had a smile on their face their whole time. There are people I talked to that were completely over this tour before they even left their house to go on it and were miserable the entire time.
So you get both sides of that coin. And I think that's what makes it a very, very unique presentation of a time in our business that honestly doesn't get talked about very much in hindsight.
Host (10:13)
No for sure. It's funny you called it like the first vlog because recently my family was watching a ⁓ like a home video from ninety-three and I was talking about how it's so much different because everyone now is always being recorded, always doing a TikTok, a Facebook reel, or we're all almost a little media trained. You know what I mean? We're like you don't capture real moments anymore when the cameras come on. But back then it was so r
Rare. So like Max, from your perspective, how did people react to the camera? Did they react or what was the vibe like basically, I guess?
Maxx Payne (10:40)
Well, that you know, see that I I I have to say there in and of itself lies where I'm I'm proud of the innovation that I brought to the table thirty one years ago and saw the fore had the foresight to see, you know, I'm not I'm not trying to pat myself on the back other than I I you know
I saw something I always believed when I saw Road Rules, which was the first ⁓ re reality-based television show, ⁓ I immediately knew in my heart that I that's I I would love to shoot a behind the scenes video like that because wrestlers i it's so funny. Inherently they're better.
at being themselves behind the scenes sometimes, not sometimes, most of the time, ⁓ at at being themselves than they are at being the characters that they portray on the other side of the curtain. And so to me that was always that was always my motivation, the intrigue of actually capturing trying to capture the mood on the south side of the curtain, you know? And that
That's what I I always set forth to do. And surprisingly, ⁓ because they're wrestlers, I think it's obvious you'll see in the movie that they had no problem with it either. You know, if you put a camera, in fact, there's there's a couple three conversations about the red light being on. You know, we we were all motivated by red light fever and wrestlers ha are inherently, you know.
drawn to the red light like a salmon is upstream. And so, you know, this is that moment where they they'd never ⁓ then also put, you know, ⁓ pen to paper in the sense of math that no one had ever done one plus one equals two where they had the chance to actually be themselves. I mean nobody thought about that. Ever. You know what I mean? Nobody had ever gone
wow, what a you know, we yeah, I just did one of these a week ago. Nobody had ever thought, ⁓ wow, you know, this was this was such a unique moment for all of them. They all seemed to be in. Even those who may have protested a little bit, you know, at first once they realized if they didn't do it, they were gonna get left out, and they did.
You know, if you if you flat out said, Hey, I don't want to do this or whatever, I I tried to honor that as much as possible because there were plenty of other guys that were going, I want in. Everybody wanted in. Every wanted everybody wanted to have to be a part of something that ⁓ should not be.
Host (14:00)
that that makes sense. And going back to what Joe said about it, you know, in some ways being a cautionary tale, ⁓ since there are things going on backstage that, you know, I don't think we'd recommend that everyone di would do, what is management's perspective on this? What does Evince McMahon or or anyone in authority think about you videotaping this stuff?
Maxx Payne (14:19)
Well, he he knew it. So he's the one this wouldn't have happened without Vince. So and and you've all you gotta do is watch the movie to know that this would have never happened without Vince's ⁓ blessing because the first thing Tony Guerrilla said to me when I saw him with the camera in my hand is, you know, shut that fucking thing off, you ain't doing this and I said
Look, Vince already gave me permission. He said, I'll be right back. And whenever he said that, you knew where he was going. He was going to call Vince. That happened to me a couple of times on this tour, the shooting of the video being the very first one. And he came back. And and as you can see all the way through the movie, the agents have no problem talking on camera. None of the wrestlers have a problem. The referees, everybody joins in. And that would have never happened.
without office approval.
Host (15:18)
Okay, that makes sense. ⁓ how indicative is this tour of your entire time in the WWF? Would you say this is pretty an how an average tour would go, or is it different with it being overseas?
Maxx Payne (15:36)
Well, this one this one's different because this is much more for me than just a tour. This is me trying to keep my career in the wrestling business. So this isn't just about being on tour and a behind the scenes ⁓ you know expose of what the wrestling business is about. This is about a guy who has spent the last
⁓ 20 years of his life working his ass off trying to create himself a career in the wrestling business. And ⁓ posthumously now I can say you seeing the absolute end of a guy's career because of all of this. And so in the end, ⁓ it was the kiss of death. It was my black ball. It was my ball and chain that I
would have to burden for the rest of my life and I'm gonna burden it for the rest of my life. ⁓ or, you know, bear the fruit that comes from it. And that fruit for me is the fact that I'm a filmmaker. And all I've ever wanted to do from the time I was 16 years old was pick up a camera and make movies. And I I think that whether you do or don't like this motion picture, ⁓ of course I I
I wouldn't be saying this without Joe Dombrowski. It wouldn't have happened. Joe is truly in every sense of the word a great producer, executive producer, editor, just a just a you know, ⁓ he is a great director too. Because in this he spends a lot of time motivating me to talk about what happened and
honoring the you know Joe is so insightful and brilliant at doing this that you know he he he honored my vision because I think in the end that he saw those those good traits that I brought to the table and and made sure that ra rather than kicking against the pricks and trying to stop you know this all from happening, his his motivation was to in in the end
make a product that flowed from beginning to end and made sense. And and so this is this is just one of those things that ⁓ it it it meant it means everything to me because I really, really spent a lot of time thinking, planning, creating, and then a guy like Joe comes on and and
finishes the project because that's what Joe's good at too.
Host (18:28)
⁓ that actually it's interested, ⁓ honoring your vision because that was my next question for Joe. How was that
That's like a delicate line between what you want to do as a filmmaker and a director, producer, whatever your titles may be, with Max, who's been sitting on this footage for, you know, 30 years and obviously has very strong opinions and it's his life. So he has a direction that he wants to go in, and you have a story that you think needs to be told. How is it walking that tightrope?
Joe Dombrowski (18:58)
You know, I think once once we got into the groove, i it really started to flow. ⁓ the thing is ⁓ that that, you know, somebody like me has to keep in mind is that ⁓ not only is is Max the cameraman, not only is he in in some respects the subject and and the focal point of of a number of the scenes, but he is still
more emotionally attached to this than any other human being possibly could. So he has run this thing through his head time and time again as far as what he foresees and and and his perception. And I would be foolish to not peer into that mind and and and lean on that and recognize what that
is and again what his perspective is and how does that fit into the overall greater story. and I and I think that the best example of that is the music that we have in the movie because Max ⁓ was the ⁓ visionary that had an album ready for a movie as opposed to a movie that needed an album. He had the music before he even shot one second of footage and that was the world's
first all pro wrestler rock band Living Insanity and to be able to put
a lot of that connective tissue together as far as music conveying a certain message, a certain mood, a certain ⁓ emotion, a certain trait. ⁓ I I I was skeptical at first, but as soon as I I played with it and I saw it and I heard it myself, I i it it fit incredibly well. So ⁓ I I I I think in situations like that you have to have just
a a level of trust to where obviously I want this to succeed. My name's attached to it. My dollars are attached to it. My reputation is attached to it now. So I want this to be appealing to as many fans as possible. ⁓ but at the same time I was not there. So ⁓ you know, Max's first hand experience and the fact that the gears in his head have been swirling for thirty years.
is an invaluable asset to be able to have to make this thing, you know, hopefully to its fullest potential and then some.
Host (21:41)
Yeah.
Maxx Payne (21:44)
You know what, just real quick, I I go ahead. Sorry, go ahead.
Host (21:45)
So you're saying okay.
No, no, you go in Max.
Maxx Payne (21:51)
I I was just gonna say, you know where what Joe's amazing at is ⁓ I I love classical music and I've watched a lot of conductors talk about from John Williams to some of the greatest contu conductors of the world and they they talk about what h how you know, when you watch a conductor, they the musicians already have
the pages of Beethoven's ninth symphony sitting in front of them, right? Do they need a conductor? They all basically know ⁓ what the the time signature is, what everything does. And every great conductor I've ever heard talk, ⁓ talks like this, and this is kind of ⁓ not kind of, this is where Joe's expertise fits into this. Is, you know, great conductors speak like this of great symphonies is
The musicians play the music and the conductors play the musicians. And that's what Joe was really good at in this. You know, he's a he he brought everything to the table that needed to come to the table. ⁓ because he's he's got a a a brilliant open mind. And he he like he's saying, he he didn't want try to come in and go, no, we're not doing that. We're not gonna do it that way.
He came in with a very, he listened, you know, he he came in with a very fresh set of ears and listening capability. And because I think in the end, he realized that the vision that I had wasn't I wasn't just full of shit. I wasn't a guy talking about going and doing this. I was the guy that brought all of the all of the seventh, the ninth symphony to him and said,
Somebody just needs to conduct this and it will turn into something potentially. And Joe from the very beginning fit that conductor role very, very well and has done it brilliantly, I think.
Host (23:47)
⁓ so you seem like you obviously have had this vision, you know, a very strong vision before you even started recording.
Were you surprised by what you captured once you started recording? Or did it go kind of as planned? Or I am tiptoeing around this because as we talked at the beginning, I'm a fan. I'm excited to watch the documentary. So it's like I almost don't want spoilers, but like did the wrestlers surprise you in any way? I guess is, you know, change your vision at all?
Maxx Payne (24:37)
⁓ surprisingly, you mean as as I was shooting actually shooting the movie?
Host (24:42)
In the process of actually shooting, yes, yeah.
Maxx Payne (24:45)
Yeah, like when I took the camera, surprisingly, no. I I mean I would I would be lying if I said different. I I captured exactly what I expected to capture because ⁓ wrestlers behind the scenes, I I have to say, and I guess I'll give them the in front of the scene in front of the camera as well, are surprisingly conventional.
You know, they they don't bear much from their life scripts. And if that's who they are, they're gonna do it behind the scenes, which I counted on. And ⁓ what I guess I guess the things I didn't count on, and I think Joe would smile and agree with me on this. I didn't count on guys like I mean, I counted on the boys, but I didn't count on Tony Guerrilla being such a star.
I didn't I didn't count on Karsten being such a star. You know, ⁓ the those guys, ⁓ you know, I'll I'll tell you who else. I I really didn't think Buddy ⁓ no I was gonna say Buddy Hawley. I didn't think Bob Hawley was gonna be so you know, Bob's Bob's a very private guy.
And ⁓ I think in the end he brought something to the film. I just I wasn't ready for how incredible he was in the motion picture. And quite frankly I'd say that about everybody from Kevin to Scott to, you know, especially, you know, guys like Bam and you know, everybody brought, in my opinion, brought they brought it, man. They brought more and were so willing to share of themselves. ⁓
That's the only thing in the end that really shocked me is how lovingly they brought themselves to the table for this motion picture. And I think it shows.
Host (26:52)
That that's awesome to me here. And those those are the guys that I am most excited to to see footage of. I'm not just naming him because he's the first one to come to mind, but it's like if I want to know what Kevin Nash is like.
There's a lot of footage of Kevin Nash, like over the last 30 years. whereas some of these other guys, the Tony Garias, you even the Bob Hollies, they're like more private guys. So it's very excited to get a glimpse into them. ⁓ but I did bring up Kevin Nash, and I know in the past he has not been a fan of the idea of this being released. Has there been any pushback since you've announced this from him or other wrestlers that were there?
Maxx Payne (27:30)
just cause kev I think it's just cause Kevin just doesn't particularly like me. You know, he it's obvious in the movie that it's pretty obvious his feelings about me through the whole thing. ⁓ but you know
the let's put it this way. Would that go outside the character of Kevin Nash, whether we were talking about a movie or the quality of the bus we're riding on? So, you know, ⁓ Kevin certainly brings that quality to the table regardless what it is, whether it's his like of me or ⁓ rather the bus that they chose for us to ride on in a particular day, ⁓
gives him another reason to be angry at the universe. So, you know.
Joe Dombrowski (28:22)
Yeah, and I I've seen the ⁓ footage of of Kevin watching the original trailer and how ⁓ dismissive he was of it for lack of a better term. ⁓ you know, and I did I did try to to make contact with Kevin and and I would have loved to have Kevin been a part of this on a you know watch along and extra feature type basis. ⁓ I I knew that was a long shot.
Kevin doesn't seem to really be into doing much as far as, you know, speaking or interviews or anything like that outside of his podcast, and I respect that. ⁓ but ⁓ but but I I made the attempt and ⁓ you know who knows what the future holds. ⁓ a as far as pushback in general, I I can honestly say as as I sit here recording this, I have not heard anything from anybody that would be
contrarian or ⁓ in any way critical or ⁓ threatening in any way ⁓ of this coming out. And I I what's funny to me is ⁓ I think over the past twenty five years of this being teased and speculated about, the internet has kind of created their own narrative as far as
⁓ why it hasn't come out or what's on it. And it's it's it's one of those things where, you know, the the longer it goes, the more people build it up in their heads. You know, how many theories are there about JFK's assassination now? And the Max Payne footage is is is quickly catching up. I've heard that
Maxx Payne (30:01)
Actually, actually, Joe, the funny part is.
Joe Dombrowski (30:09)
You know, the boys all banded together and threatened to sue and that's why it didn't get released and the the whole movie is just them doing these illegal illicit things and it would ruin their reputations and it just i i i it's it's it sounds good.
Maxx Payne (30:28)
Eric Bischoff has even said publicly that it would get me whacked. So, you know, it's yeah. I I I watched an interview that, you know, Eric there there was like, you know, a mafiosa was gonna show or a disgruntled one of the boys, one of the ring crew was gonna show up and put a bullet in me because, you know, I'd I'd exposed K Fabe. And ⁓ so, you know, from from the beginning.
Joe Dombrowski (30:35)
⁓
Maxx Payne (30:58)
The the the original big chomp on me was, you know, how dare you expose the wrestling business, you know, where there's certain wrestlers just by them going out there and wrestling was an expose in and of itself. I certainly didn't do anything that was any worse than a f a few wrestlers I've known that went out and got in the ring and absolutely proved that the business was fake. So, you know, ⁓
It's just one of those things that that that's part of the deal. In fact, you know, i ⁓ like PT Barnum said, I don't care what you say about me as long as you spell my name right and there's no such thing as bad publicity. And that's what thing looks forward to having, you know, it's it's gonna it's gonna have all that. And then once the movie finally comes out, the great thing about it is I don't think if you're a fan and you're a fan of the movie and you're a fan of this era.
Joe and I have talked about this because both of us have probably watched this movie now 20 or 30 times apiece, minimum. Joe's probably way up on me now in terms of how many times he's watched it. ⁓ but there is never a time in this, in viewing this movie, that I haven't found something else to go, my God, I I forgot that was there, you know.
And I think that's the fun people are gonna you know, this this the kind of movie that, you know, everybody fucking fills a fifty gallon barrel full of jungle juice on a Friday night and shows the thing that should not be, and they all sit around and talk about truly the the first behind the scenes ⁓ completely uncensored. I hate
air quotes, but I'm gonna do it completely uncensored motion picture ⁓ behind the scenes of the wrestling business. And to me, that's the that's the powerful thing about this. And and it it it has the potential to be the definitive ⁓ because it is the first. And in in that sense. ⁓ because even for the other movies that were released, the thing that should not
⁓ B precedes those, you know, by years because they they just they weren't out there yet. And I have a feeling that there may be, you know, I I I was I saw something today, Joe, maybe you can address this as well. You know, people that may have something like this, ⁓ there may be because of thing, a whole bunch more of this may come out now because of
what thing brings to the table and what it's what it does for somebody that may have some film like that kicking around that they never dared let go, that now they will.
Joe Dombrowski (34:08)
Well, it's certainly always possible. And, you know, the the thing with me is and it's kind of become a calling card for me over the past few years is lost footage, unreleased footage, never before seen footage. And ⁓ it it really started with me in a big way when I started working with Les Thatcher and he let me in on all of the old ⁓ Heartland Wrestling house shows that were never meant for
Public release, the only internal review. the Brian Pillman Memorial shows, which had never really had a a widespread release, and we had always heard about and read in the magazines and read on the internet, but other than one or two matches, you never actually saw them. ⁓ but to be able to to take those to platform them and give them a whole new audience, ⁓ not only reinvigorates interest in that footage and that era, it
reinvigorated foota interest in ⁓ the physical media market. My DVD sales were dropping year over year from about twenty sixteen to twenty twenty one. And then once Pillman hit, they they spiked considerably and and it kind of gave me a better idea of okay, what's the age range, what's the demo, what's the genre we're dealing with here where people will still buy physical media. And this fits right in that as well. And I hope there's more people out there that have footage like this. I hope there's
more never before seen reels hidden in somebody's attic or a storage unit somewhere where we can see more opportunities like this. And I know, you know, Max and I have talked about ⁓ a sequel or a prequel to this ⁓ with with some other things that he has ⁓ in his possession. So ⁓ the and I think the the great thing about the movie too that that I think is underrated, but once everybody watches it, ⁓ they're going to appreciate it.
Is is so quotable. ⁓ there are so many one liners, there's so many little idioms, there's so many jokes, there's so many so much little phraseology just with how the boys talk to themselves and talk amongst themselves that ⁓ I don't know, it it's just very easy to digest, and it's something that I could picture.
you know, a couple of friends watching and then just texting quotes each other back and forth at random and having fun with that. I think that's something that ⁓ that people that that really dig into this are gonna appreciate because there's a lot of little sleeper lines where you don't get the big laugh track and the big pay off necessarily, but but but they're still fun in their own way.
Maxx Payne (36:50)
Yeah, one thing's one thing's for certain about this motion picture is if you if you know what I'm saying when I say this to you, and if you don't, you better go look it up. You better brush up on your carney ⁓ before you go watch the thing that should not be. Because ⁓ once again, like Joe said, there there's a lot of you know, the like I like I like I really this is like
Totally mystery science theater two thousand, ⁓ where I I really have a feeling there's gonna be people that feel like they need to go in and even though Joe's done a real good with a real good job of subtitles and and and all of that, there's still a lot of stuff that happens. So you know, it's like great jokes. You know, good God you're three jokes past it before the fur the last one, and you know, like joke grenades, you they
You know, it's th that one's blowing up and you got three more things happening in front of it that you're going, shit, what did I miss? You know, so it's like I said, I you know, it's one of those things that I I really believe that that people are gonna people are gonna do what Joe said because there's so much quotable stuff in it. You're you're gonna start hearing some of this phraseology transition its way into ⁓ into culture, I think.
Host (38:18)
That's very exciting. ⁓ you called it the like talking about mystery science theater. I was thinking as you were talking that the the Mavens, the Mark Jendrax, the the the wrestlers that have their own YouTube channels are really gonna be excited for this release, but I'm sure they will be, you know, filming their own watch alongs as well. And you had ⁓ you said you had Henry Godwin and Shane Douglas. Those are two guys that I've listened to talk a lot. They are they could talk about the wrestling business just until they fall asleep, I guess. They could just keep going. So
Maxx Payne (38:47)
Right.
Host (38:48)
I think those are great guess. Is there anyone you were hoping to get that you couldn't?
Joe Dombrowski (38:54)
mean I I reached out to as many people as ⁓ as I possibly could. I I would have loved to have had Kevin involved. I would have loved to have had ⁓ Just Incredible involved. ⁓ Bob Holly seems to have kind of as Max said, lived a very private life. I know that he there the ⁓ he has a an imposter on Twitter.
Maxx Payne (39:16)
I love you, Bob, just so you know that, brother.
Joe Dombrowski (39:19)
Yeah. ⁓ so I I I mean I I would have loved to talk to those those guys. ⁓ and to get even more wishful thinking, I would have loved to have you know, talked to some guys who who obviously are no longer with us. I would have loved to sit down with Scott Hall or, you know, Tim White or or Bam Bam.
Maxx Payne (39:37)
You you beat me to the punchline, Joe. There's a great punchline in there from Tony Guerrilla when he talks about going to Los Angeles and looking up Jessica Houston. And he said, My I called her father, John, but ⁓ he never returned my phone call. But un unfortunately he's been dead for five years now. And I I would I I would say that about Bam Bam and Lewis and you know, God.
Wouldn't it have been great to have ⁓ Lewis and and Bam and and Yoke to I mean God I I I mean the good thing is though let's let's talk about talk about the touching part of this for just a second because their families are get to see some real brilliance ⁓ that's never been seen before.
Of these wonderful human beings that bring something to the table and left something behind, that now a real genuine homage can be paid to them ⁓ in a very favorable and beautiful light. And for that, I'm I'm really proud. Not to mention, ⁓ if there's ever been any mystery about how much Mr. Fuji lived in his underwear.
That will be resolved in the movie.
Host (41:03)
that's actually something I hadn't thought about. That is that is really great because I I I mean I would love if someone said, Hey, I have lost footage of your mom and dad. Here it is. So that's that's fantastic. Yeah.
Joe Dombrowski (41:04)
What a hook.
Maxx Payne (41:14)
Right, right. Can you imagine? All of a sudden, you know, out of nowhere, you know, you get to see your dad say things to you posthumously. My God, I just I I I hope it touches all of their hearts in just nothing but an incredibly positive, beautiful way, which it does me every time I watch it. I cry every time I watch it. So
Host (41:38)
And Joe, you talked about how you've been releasing ⁓ unseen, unreleased footage. And I will say that our website has a Discord and it skews a little younger than us, and they consider anything you have to pay for lost media. I'm constantly having them say, How do I watch this match? And I go, You could pay $3 and watch it right now. But how much of Max's footage did you use?
Maxx Payne (41:54)
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Yeah.
Host (42:07)
Is there stuff on the cutting room floor?
Joe Dombrowski (42:10)
There there there's a little bit on the cutting room floor. but ⁓ my my goal was to preserve as much of the boys as I could, preserve ⁓ anything pertinent to a few different sub stories that that were run through as a thread throughout the the entire movie. ⁓ but I I I I th I think part of the ⁓
editing process is just looking out for repetition, ⁓ making sure ⁓ the valleys don't run too long as opposed to the peaks, because there is a lot of time spent looking out the window of the bus. ⁓ but we're able to to package and and compact that and present that in a fun way that gives you kind of an idea of life on the road where you
You you you feel like you're in the bus and and there's all these cool landmarks that are just passing by you and you don't get to actually, you know, have fun and be a tourist. ⁓ you know, and ⁓ obviously there's a lot of ⁓ of of video footage of, you know, Max playing the guitar that we we were able to edit and cut up into a really cool package that that fit into the overarching theme that really is kind of the the main idea of of Max's journey in this particular
film ⁓ that I'm proud of. And and there's some some ⁓ some bonus footage too as far as deleted scenes that maybe didn't fit the narrative of the story we were telling, but we have, you know, the the the bonus scene of Max in ⁓ Hanover, Germany, right, Max? After the tour? Yeah. W when after after the the full metal tour
Maxx Payne (44:00)
Yes, yes, yes.
Joe Dombrowski (44:06)
⁓ Max is a free agent. He he does not work there anymore. This is the literally the end of his career in the World Wrestling Federation. And ⁓ we see his first independent appearance after that in in Hanover, Germany in his ⁓ his old stomping grounds at CWA. So ⁓ that's on there and ⁓ a lot of really cool extras. I was able to find ⁓ some some photo galleries, ⁓
couple of fans had s had sent me some footage from their cameras of guys getting off the bus or, you know, walking through the hotel lobby or whatnot. and, you know, we talked about ⁓ Henry Godwin and Shane Douglas and Tony Guerrilla and ⁓ the former Jean Pierre Lafitte talks to us on there. Karsten Schaefer, who is the German ring announcer and commentator, Dan Spivey, who was Waylon Mercy. ⁓
You know, I I got the go ahead to pull a few ⁓ Ted DiBiassi clips from his podcast. So ⁓ a lot of the the the talent involved are gonna be very well represented in this in a number of ways. And that's why this is the first five disc set I have ever put out. it's it's it's gonna be over ten hours altogether. I think maybe not even including the movie. ⁓ but
Maxx Payne (45:23)
Wow.
Joe Dombrowski (45:32)
It was it was that cool. It was that special. ⁓ you know, ⁓ sometimes
Maxx Payne (45:38)
There's there's a couple other things too, Joe. Let's let's ⁓ let's kind of put that sales pitch in there too. There's some unexpected things that I didn't even know until Joe told me. There's I call him Johnny Rotten Storm because I I grew up with the Sex Pistols and love Johnny Rotten, but ⁓ it's it's Johnny Storm, right? Isn't it? Is that his name, Joe? Yeah. So I call him.
Joe Dombrowski (46:03)
Yes. Johnny Johnny Storm.
Maxx Payne (46:06)
Johnny Rottenstorm ⁓ is actually appealing to Vince McMahon for a job in this movie. And what, two weeks after this, Joe, he launches his wrestling career. And then after that, there's there's also an incredible artist who his his work is pretty well known now throughout the wrestling world, ⁓ who
Joe Dombrowski (46:22)
Yeah.
Maxx Payne (46:33)
We see his art ⁓ in this as well. And so ⁓ and then of course, and then of course the girls, ⁓ which doesn't have a direct finger pointed at them, but pretty tough to miss, you know. So there's there's there's so and then for the first time in wrestling history, here's a guy walking around before.
For the matches pointing the camera at everybody in the audience. You know, so all of those folks and all of that footage. So there's there's all these amazing surprises that, you know, you you kind of don't even you just it just feels so logical as part of the movie. You don't even realize really how cool and amazing it is.
Joe Dombrowski (47:27)
You know, Max, there's there's one particular wrestler on this tour that seemed to know all of those girls in that lobby. And I will withhold the name. You have to watch it to find out. But we could probably grab him into this call right now and he could list them all off by name. It'd be like ⁓ you know, a a a perp walk or something. Just just pull the guilty parties out, you know, it was number four I was with last night.
Maxx Payne (47:52)
Could could could could we could we could could we go to the lobby after this, Joe, and go have a continental breakfast that'll include bacon and ham and ⁓ all of those kinds of things because never.
Host (47:54)
Ha ha.
Joe Dombrowski (48:08)
As long as long as you're not late for the bus.
Maxx Payne (48:11)
And I was! ⁓ god.
Host (48:17)
⁓ the Johnny Storm thing is wild. I didn't realize he was old enough then to ⁓ have been launching his career.
Maxx Payne (48:21)
he's a he's he's still shitting he's still shitting yellow in this movie. Are you kidding me? I mean, goddamn.
Joe Dombrowski (48:22)
So
Yeah, he he was he was a kid at the he was maybe eighteen, but I I didn't realize this. ⁓ 'cause I you know, watching this footage, I I knew who was on the tour, I'd seen the trailer. I was not ready for Johnny Storm because I I've been friends with Johnny since two thousand five. So he and I go back along, but as soon as I saw that that face, I'm like, holy crap. And
Maxx Payne (48:45)
it's so great.
Joe Dombrowski (48:53)
come to find out 'cause I also talked to Johnny Storm as one of these extra features. So we get his perspective too.
Maxx Payne (48:58)
Actually, actually, in fairness, Joe is obviously quite ⁓ jaded towards his fan, his markdom for Johnny Store because Johnny gets quite a favorable nod in this movie, and I'm so excited for him. God damn. I I honestly, it's one of my favorite parts. I'm excited, you can tell, because I I had no idea. That's how naive I am. You know, I didn't even know who he was.
Joe Dombrowski (49:24)
Yeah.
Maxx Payne (49:27)
And I and then Joe tells me, You do realize that right after this, this guy launched his career. And I'm like, You've gotta be kidding.
Joe Dombrowski (49:27)
The the f
But the the crazy thing about that is that pretty much everybody I I I showed the footage of Johnny to remember him and know him, but they remember him as a fan because he was always in the lobby, he was always with his camcorder or, you know, just just bugging the boys, trying to get their attention, trying to get their time. And ⁓ I guess ⁓ his nickname
was Lil Razor 'cause he used to dress up like Scott Hall. And ⁓ he just
Maxx Payne (50:08)
And when you say Lil Razor, ⁓ my God, this kid, that's that's the other reason none of the boys were threatened by him, because he can't weigh a buck twenty in a soak and wet pair of five ⁓ ones. You know what I mean? This guy, he's tiny. And so nobody I mean, even when he's talking to
Joe Dombrowski (50:19)
Yeah.
Yeah, he
And he's he
He's he's got footage on his YouTube of ⁓ you know some of his interactions too. And I I I've been able to pull ⁓ one or two of his interactions with ⁓ with Max that happened elsewhere from this tour that Max hasn't even seen yet. So more more of a surprise. Yes.
Maxx Payne (50:45)
Are you kidding? God, I can't wait. I can't wait.
Host (50:49)
That's awesome. ⁓ so yeah, because you have the five disc version. I believe there's ⁓ you can buy an assigned version as well, limited copies of that, and even a VHS copy. Have you done that before? Released VHS tapes of any of your new footage?
Joe Dombrowski (51:07)
I did VHS as an experiment about a year ago, ⁓ because I happened to have two releases, ⁓ one devoted to Harley Race, one devoted to Andre the Giant, that were short enough that I could fit on a VHS without making it look absolutely terrible. So, ⁓ I decided to try it and ⁓ to be honest, lukewarm success. But
Really that was kind of a test run because I always had in the back of my mind I wanna do it here because if if there's one title people might want a commemorative VHS, you know, watch it the same they way they would watch their footage in nineteen ninety five, it might be this. and ⁓ already through pre orders I think it's probably done better than Harley or Andre did on VHS last year. So, ⁓
Just another cool aside, you know, I've I've seen the past few years like T and A would do like a limited edition VHS and it was really appealing to me, you know? Like again
Host (52:17)
Dark side just did it with the Joe Necro episode. Yeah.
Joe Dombrowski (52:20)
True. I I I saw that as well. Yeah. ⁓ VHS is always gonna have a a soft spot in my heart. I I still have VHSs. I still people throwing out their their tape collections. If I think they have something rare, ⁓ I'll come pick it up, you know? ⁓ so, you know, again, is there a market? We'll find out, you know. I I I'm not gonna lose or risk much if I'm dead wrong, but but so far at least there's enough where I think the the VHS ⁓
portion of it can at the very least self-sustain, if not make a slight profit in its own little microcosm. So ⁓ I'm all for it. Yeah. This is the first release I've ever done that is available in one form or another on DVD, on VHS, on VOD, and on C D because we got the soundtrack coming out as well.
Maxx Payne (53:11)
Okay, I I I'm gonna I'm gonna make hold on a second. I gotta make this announcement, Joe. You know, if you're gonna if you're gonna go ahead and pull out some surprises for everybody, let's let's go ahead and just tell them the the other surprise that you haven't told them yet. ⁓ as a Christmas special, we're also gonna release it on Laserdisc eight track and LP.
Host (53:11)
That's awesome.
⁓ my gosh. Well you you were talking about ⁓ keeping it short. I was like, you wouldn't have one of my VHSs. I used to cram six hours on those things. They were unwatchable, but I had to get all the footage I could.
Maxx Payne (53:44)
God, yeah. And when and when the eight hour versions came out, my god, I was in heaven.
Joe Dombrowski (53:46)
I did it all the time.
Host (53:51)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Dombrowski (53:52)
Learn that the hard way.
Host (53:55)
Well, as one of my like final questions, I don't want to keep you guys all night. I kinda wanna get Max your spec perspective because this is literally your story because it's your life and it's your story because you've been crafting this documentary for 30 years in your head. I are you at all nervous or is it all excitement to release it? Because then like to see what everyone does with this, to see how everyone feels about it.
Maxx Payne (54:21)
Well, ⁓ I've thought about that a lot. Joe and I Joe and I have had some some really intense fucking conversations about that. ⁓ because ⁓ it it it does ⁓ it means it means a lot to me in in several ways. The first one being
I started my life really seeking a career in film. When I was 16 years old, I was in a motion picture with ⁓ Lored Lorenzo Lamas and Edward Herman, Kathleen Lloyd, ⁓ Maureen McCormick, ⁓ Kevin Hooks, called Takedown, and it changed my life forever. And from that moment forward.
all I've ever wanted to be was a motion picture author. And ⁓ I told I told Joe that ⁓ the day that the thing releases to the public and somebody sits down at their ⁓ their flat screen and ⁓ or sits down in front of their projector or is watching it on their phone and the
Screen comes up that says a film by Max Payne. I will have, it's taken me now almost 50 years to accomplish that goal through no fault of but my own. I'm not there's no blame or anything sad or negative to assign here, but ⁓ my first film is going to be the thing that should not be. And I'm incredibly proud of Joe for.
For coming on board with me and seeing the vision from the beginning. I'm incredibly thankful for all the great wrestling fans out there that ca have waited this whole time and can't wait to watch it. I hope it doesn't let them down. I I I have a feeling it's gonna provide at least what I said it would ⁓ from the very beginning. ⁓ but am I scared?
Yeah, because I I am part with some ⁓ I mean I I'm exposed in this movie. There's no way around it. Not that exposed, the other kind of where I've I let my feelings ⁓ be heard and known in this motion picture and for that I wear my s my emotions on their sleeve and a lot of these
scenes and I'm sure I will be made fun of. I'm I'm I'm that I'm prepared for and that I'm not afraid of because I you you can make some of the people happy some of the time but you can't make them all happy and that part I'm not afraid of. I I'm actually really really excited for the world to finally see this because when I shot it, I shot it for no other reason that I believed that that side of the curtain
was entertaining. And I think this motion picture proves that. And even considering the limited access, the ⁓ there's actually a really amazing story just around how I managed to shoot this motion picture on the camera I was using because of the financial situation I was at at ⁓ and in at the time I shot this.
in terms of the cost of the batteries I used and whether I was gonna have enough batteries to make through the filming, which had a huge impact on the way I shot the motion picture and, you know, everything else. So I'm incredibly proud of it. I'm incredibly afraid of it. But the fear is simply because ⁓ I'm just a soft hearted pussy in the end. And you know, I don't want anybody ⁓
you know, I I I don't like being hurt and I don't and like no one does, but I I've got a pretty strong skin built around me right now and I have a lot of folks surrounding me that ⁓ I I would consider to be genuine friends and they've done nothing but support me. My my true friends have done nothing but support me from beginning to end and for that ⁓
It gives me an army that surrounds me, that gives me the confidence to move forward. And then of course Joe. ⁓ Joe is is exceptional what he does. He's he's a great conductor, ⁓ he's a great producer, he's a great executive producer. And I'm glad that he's on my side and in my court, and together we've made something that I hope the world loves.
Host (59:34)
Well, ⁓ I don't think I'm just kissing your ass because you're on phone here, on the call here, but most people will never ever ever make anything, much less a movie. and hearing both you and Joe and kind of the ⁓
Almost like the emotional awareness you guys have about this stuff has me I was are I was excited if you would have said, Hey, here's 10 hours of unedited footage, most of us looking at a bus, I probably still would have been sitting there fast forwarding to trying to get to the good parts, but just hearing the care it feels like you guys have taken has made me even more excited for this project.
Maxx Payne (1:00:10)
I think I think I think Joe's right when he says I think Joe s hit it out of the park when he said and I think that's because this is a vision of my mind's eye and it's from beginning to end. It it because you can't have a great movie without a great soundtrack, and you can't have a great you know, in this case you can't the soundtrack is only equaled by
Host (1:00:11)
⁓
Maxx Payne (1:00:38)
its pertinence to the movie. And to me, that's what's so ⁓ genuine, if you will, about this movie. The soundtrack I wrote was the soundtrack that was my mind's eye, that was the music that would get us through this motion picture. And that's the part that I think makes the thing that should not be something very, very unique in the world.
Joe Dombrowski (1:01:04)
No doubt. Yeah. And and I think ⁓ you know, just the novelty of Max and Brian James Road Dog and Nick Patrick being in a band together is fascinating for any wrestling fan. And and then you actually sit down and listen to it and you realize this is not a novelty. This is not, you know, the wrestling album. This is actual good quality music that
I think if you were sitting on your couch in the nineties and you had no idea what pro wrestling was, but this came on MTV or this came on your radio and you were you were into, you know, the rock music of the day, I think you could really, really appreciate it. And you know, we're gonna drop a trailer for the C D as well and and hopefully get some more people interested in that all over again. As far as just the movie itself, ⁓
I felt creatively reinvigorated doing it. I felt rejuvenated. I think I've enjoyed everything I've done for the past number of years with the old footage and and territories and and and all the old stars of of of yesteryear, but there's not a lot of narrative to that. There's not a lot of ⁓ story to that in the sense of it's all right, well
What matches do we use? How do we lay out the matches? What matches need set up? Do any of them need voiceover commentary? But there's not really a deep story to pull out. ⁓ here there is. And it had been a long time since I've done something this involved and this time consuming. ⁓ when we did the Pillman set, I did a ninety minute documentary that was exclusive to that set. you know, years and years ago I did a
documentary on Zach Gowan's life. I did ⁓ you know a number of things like that. But this is the first time I've done something like this in a long time. And as we talked about, it just it got bigger and the story grew and the cast that was willing to participate grew and it became something, you know, so much more than than just what the raw tapes were. It it is truly, as I said earlier, it's a time capsule.
of a a time in our business that we will never experience again. That that you know will not come back. And the people and the places and the events that happen there are very much of their time. And that's what makes it special. I mean within the first five, ten minutes of the movie, there's two different references to the O. J. Simpson trial. You know, that's that's a time capsule in and of itself. So ⁓
I think a lot of these fans are gonna love looking back and seeing ⁓ the guys they watched on TV when they were a kid and see a side of them that they really never thought they'd see and that still feels a little taboo and still feels a little mysterious and, you know, a little bit a little bit wrong that, we're not supposed to see this side. And ⁓ you get it. For two plus hours of our full length movie and then
ten more hours of ⁓ you know ⁓ bonus content. I'm sure nine hours is just Shane Douglas running his mouth and I cut him down to I cut him down to a reasonable length and let everybody else have a turn. So ⁓
Host (1:04:37)
Ha ha ha.
Maxx Payne (1:04:41)
You know, you know something, Joe, that just really hit me right now that both that that I think I'm the most proud of? Honestly, ⁓ I I don't think anything can trump this. Do you realize that and I I'm pretty sure I can at attest for the other ten hours of video that you've added to the movie? Imagine this.
Host (1:04:43)
Yeah.
Maxx Payne (1:05:07)
Imagine watching a movie about someone in the NFL, I don't care who it is, and never showing a scene from the field. There is not one second, not one second of wrestling in this movie. That is what I really wanted to accomplish.
That by the time you get done watching this movie, you just spent two hours with wrestlers and you didn't see one baby face or one heel move or one referee get knocked down by a a guy who's slamming somebody or, you know, one fernum dernum come out of the shorts, or, you know, nothing. It is all the personal life of what happened behind the curtain. And that absolutely defines what my goal was.
In this motion picture.
Host (1:06:10)
Well, before I ask Joe to give us ⁓ the details and the final hard sale sell, what is ⁓ what what's Max Payne up to in twenty twenty six? Where can we find you or wh what are you up to?
Maxx Payne (1:06:20)
You know, ⁓ I'm gonna go ahead and say very soon. I'm gonna make try to make getting a hold of me and seeing where I'm at and what I'm doing really easy. ⁓ thepainlayer.com is where is going to be my ⁓ infrastructure and the place where to find anything about me other than what Joe is about to say right now about how to find ⁓ truly the
Thing that should not be.
Joe Dombrowski (1:06:52)
Yes, and that thing will be and shall be and will forever be on Pro Wrestling Library dot com. You have ⁓ two options. You can go the DVD route, the VOD route. if you click on D V D, that's also where you can find the C D or the VHS as well. ⁓ we have six hundred and fifty-nine other hours of content available ⁓ as well if you'd like to peruse of every style, every genre, pretty much every top wrestler that's
that's ever existed outside of the walls of of corporate wrestling. ⁓ so feel free to to surf around and check that out. But ⁓ but as we said, five discs or five parts if you're on VOD and I don't even know the runtime because I'm still adding things to it as we record this. ⁓ but it's gonna be jam packed and ⁓ it's an absolute time cap. So you can see see the trailers right now across all my socials. You can search for them on YouTube and
you know, a lot more cool stuff will be leaking as far as teasers and preview clips and stuff like that. So watch my socials for the next few weeks for info there. ⁓ ProSing Library dot com should have links for my Facebook, Twitter, Blue Sky, TikTok, ⁓ Instagram, ⁓ I don't know, did I leave any out? ⁓ Yeah, the music, the C D trailer drops, the C D'll be part of the physical media section.
Maxx Payne (1:08:12)
And the music, of course.
Joe Dombrowski (1:08:19)
Living in Sanity ⁓ will have ⁓ all the music from the movie and even as a special bonus, the music from the trailer that everybody has speculated about for the past twenty years. What's that song? What's it called? Where can we get it? that I I made it a point when I did the new trailer. I had to had to have that song because everybody already associates that song and that little montage with this movie. So ⁓
Maxx Payne (1:08:48)
Which which incidentally that song ⁓ which is from a band called Kairos GP Six that has been associated with the trailer forever is a band that I engineered, recorded and traveled to New York as well as ⁓ Portland, Maine to ma to master the album with Bob Ludwig. Recorded in Times Square, the vocal track in Times Square with
Joe Dombrowski (1:08:48)
Yeah, ⁓
Maxx Payne (1:09:18)
lead singer of the band, but that band was also one of my central projects ⁓ as ⁓ producer slash engineer ⁓ in my own musical world. So just another piece of the Max Payne ⁓ puzzle.
Joe Dombrowski (1:09:37)
All connects.
Host (1:09:39)
All right, well thanks thing once again for coming, guys. Like I said, I'm very excited and I can't wait to dive in.
Joe Dombrowski (1:09:44)
Well, we won't let you down, my friend. Enjoy.
Maxx Payne (1:09:44)
Thank you for having us.