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Claude Silver, Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX, joins Jeet Mukherjee to explain why she renamed HR "People and Experience," why AI handles the FAQs but not the heart, and why the People team of the future looks like coaches, not paper pushers.
The WorkOps Podcast is your weekly conversation with HR leaders and People Ops practitioners doing the real work.
In every episode we dig into one story. A process that went sideways, a system that just didn't work, and what someone actually did about it. Packed with practical lessons you'll want to bring back to your team. Whether you're supporting 500 employees or 5,000, this is how the best People leaders are building for what comes next.
The WorkOps Podcast - Claude Silver
Recorded 2026-09-30
Jeet Mukherjee: Hey everybody. Today I am very excited to have Claude Silver, who's the Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX. Claude, welcome to The WorkOps Podcast.
Claude Silver: Amazing to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
Jeet Mukherjee: I'm very excited about this conversation. Before we get into things, would love to hear how did you get into the world of HR?
Claude Silver: Yeah. Well, I'm laughing because it's a world I never wanted to be in, to be perfectly honest. Even though I wanted to be a psychotherapist and did some training for that, I figured that I could be more helpful and facilitate more growth and enjoy, quite frankly, if I was with people on the floor. And it just so happened I got into the agency world in San Francisco at the height of the first dot-com boom, which was '97, '98, '99. And I got straight into digital and started to lead teams immediately, even though I didn't really know the skill set of a project manager, anyway, one thing led to another, and you and I were just chatting about this, that we've been in the agency world for quite some time. And when I met Gary Vaynerchuk, who's my boss, I was living in London and I was working at Publicis London, Digital Strategy for a lot of P&G brands globally. And Gary had me start, I was the first SVP that he hired in New York 12 years ago. And that meant not only was I one of the oldest people, I had the most lived experience, but also the most agency experience. And so not only was I running our largest account at the time and I had a team of like 60 awesome, wonderful people, I spent a lot of my time doing what's really natural to me, which is, you know, unofficial mentoring and checking in with people and helping people find their way through roadblocks that naturally come up with all of us. And one day I went to Gary about a year in and I just said, you know, thank you so much. Great. This is a great place. I love it, love the people, but I don't want to do advertising anymore. It just didn't matter to me, like how to get this into your hand. Like didn't matter anymore. And there are people that are much better at it. And he said, What do you want to do? And I said, I only want to work with people. I believe in the heartbeat here. Heart. And so one thing led to another, a lot of conversations, and I found my backfill. And eventually we created this role Chief Heart Officer. The only one. There's no job description. And so what I said to him when we sat down that day was, I didn't want to do HR, right? And he said, Yep, well, you're gonna learn it and you know, hire really strong people around you, which I have. And immediately I changed the name to People and Experience, because that's what I think it is. I said, What are we building here? It's always nice to know your vision. He said, We're building the single greatest human organization in the history of time. It's like sign me up. And then I said, How do we know if I'm successful? No job description. And he said, You'll touch every single human being and deploy empathy throughout the agencies. And so when I started, we were about 200 people. When we had that conversation, we were about 400 people. And now we're about, you know, 2,200 globally. So it's been a wild ride, but that's how I got the title, which I really believe is because he and I see humanity in a very similar way. We want people to be happy at work. We both believe in the strength of emotional intelligence and being able to regulate that. And we see humans, not employees. And so it really fit.
Jeet Mukherjee: That's an amazing story. The fact that you didn't even want to get into HR and you didn't want to do HR. And words do matter, right? Like you were saying, people and experience, not HR, Chief Heart Officer or not HR. How would you describe it to someone who knows nothing about the HR world of how people and experience or how Chief Heart Officer is different from HR and chief HR officer?
Claude Silver: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the real reason I wanted to change the department name from HR to People and Experience is that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to take care of people and their entire experience from the moment they put their CV in for a job, their entire tenureship, learning, development, whatever it is, growth, exploration, relocation, feedback, all of that stuff. And to their last breath. And so we actually created an alumni network as well where we are able to help people find that next road for them, especially if it's someone we might be exiting. So I really firmly believe that it's our responsibility, actually as leaders, forget the HR department, to take care of our people and the experience that they are having. I believe as leaders we work for people, we work for them, they don't work for us. And so that's really what I wanted to create with this People and Experience team. I trained everyone on the skills of psychological safety, how to provide that, how to create and hold space for people, how to do our best to compartmentalize and put our judgment in the backseat. I've you know trained them all on how to be more of a coach rather than therapist or manager, as we know a lot of times HR people are, you know, quasi-managers. They step in as almost managers if that person's not getting the right type of management. And so really that's what it's about for me. It is what is going on, not only from the nine to five, but what's going on in that person's life and how can we support, how can we facilitate the growth and the change that they want? How can we help them find solutions?
Jeet Mukherjee: Hmm. That's a pretty all-encompassing role and quite a noble task to make sure that you're supporting them holistically. It's also difficult to know it sounds like when you're being successful versus not. How do you gauge that at the scale that you're now doing it?
Claude Silver: Yeah. Well, I'll tell you a couple things I did from the start when I started the People and Experience team was one, I removed the need for a college education because I did not want that to be a showstopper. I wanted to really, really have an inclusive floor. Inclusivity in every single thread, including neurodiversity. I also changed the way we hired from culture fit to skill set fit and culture addition, which really made sense to me. I don't know what culture fit means other than exclusivity. I don't want to other people, I really don't. And so skill set fit, you know that we're hiring you because you have these skills and you happen to be a person we're curious about. A person maybe that can bring us a knowledge and insight of other cultures or other domains. So those are the first two things that I want to say that I really did to make this ours, to really make this People and Experience team ours.
Jeet Mukherjee: How do you know when you're being successful? Because it's a pretty broad remit.
Claude Silver: Yeah. I mean the remit is to touch every single person and deploy empathy. And so what I had to do very quickly was recognize that I'm one of one. And I needed to not only train not the People and Experience team as I hired them, our leaders needed to be trained in how to lead, how to manage, how to recognize when someone is not performing to where we thought they could, when their performance tanks, what to do. And I also called upon what I now call culture champions. And so because I had been at the agency for 16 months before we created the CHO role, I knew who was out there that had similar DNA. I knew who was already out there in both our West Coast office, our New York office, and our London office who knew how to see if someone was struggling and go take them for a walk or a coffee. And so even today I call upon those people and they scale me. They scale Gary. They scale the heart. So I get data points all day long. I get data. I meet with so many people during one day. You know, I do have one-on-ones, I do have group meetings, we are a high touch culture. As a matter of fact, later on today I'm gonna review the pulse survey that we'll send out at the beginning of '27, which is going to be revamped. So do a lot of that. But I think also because we have a People and Experience team that has been trained on how to create and hold space for someone, people do feel comfortable coming to them. More than you would feel comfortable going to your normal HR department. I never went to HR. Ever, ever, ever. And so this is a department that scales me 24/7. I scale them. And you know, we're getting information all the time. Gary still has enormous amounts of one-on-ones with people. You would be shocked if you saw his calendar.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah, it's a pleasantly surprising thing to hear. I mean, you hear about other CEOs who sometimes have 50 direct reports and there's no way they're running one on ones with them and that's a different way of working.
Claude Silver: Yeah, that is. I wanted to just mention one other thing. In terms of systems, I really did search high and low for the right people management system, quasi HRIS, and we finally found one called Bob. And so we incorporated Bob during COVID. We brought HiBob in. And the reason I really liked it was because it seemed human. It didn't seem like it was written in Greek. And if I could navigate it, anyone else could navigate it. And so one of the things I'm really proud of is it's been adopted in the company from the highest level and around. And that helps us because people can ask for peer feedback any day of the week. If you're a leader, you can ask for feedback. So that's always a way we have the touch also.
Jeet Mukherjee: It's great to hear and speaking of tools, one of the things that you mentioned is there are these humans who are scaling you, scaling Gary, scaling the culture. I'd be curious to hear, are you using AI tools or other tools to help scale that culture? Or do you think that needs to remain as a human thing?
Claude Silver: Right now, it's a human thing. I mean there are AI functionalities in ADP, payroll, just as there are in Bob. And we lean on Gemini quite a bit. However, right now I'm not using any to scale the heart. I don't and I've looked at a lot. I'm going to be picky, I think, when it comes to that. And I'm sure at some day sooner than later we will find a bot. We will find something that feels authentic and genuine enough to me to use internally.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah. And I guess what we're seeing with AI as well is actually the great purpose of that is probably for us to have the freer time to then focus on the human things rather than have it do the human things for us. And I'd be interested to hear how are you guys using AI internally, whether that's with an HR or beyond that, to free up that time for more heart time.
Claude Silver: Yeah, I can speak to it in the People and Experience team. And because we're an advertising agency, we use it in a multitude of ways, as you can imagine, because we're a creative agency. So they're all using it in ways that link up with Premiere Pro and Adobe tools and whatnot. One of the main ways we have used it is we now have set it up. So if someone needs to know where can I find my benefits? What are the international holidays? I should be aware of. Anything like that, they can just go in and talk to AI. And that way no one needs, there's no human interaction on the other side. Here's where your holidays are, here are your blackout dates, here are the five tips to interview today. That kind of stuff. So we've taken the human out of all of that question and answer of like, where can I find the sheet on how to like great interview questions to ask, or how can I find the onboarding sheet? Now we have that automated, which I would say saved us a person. I really do. And that person is now able to do other things. We also use it to collate information. Especially during feedback or talent planning, anything that's gonna help us. It's sure efficiency, but just do something faster that used to take us four days. You know, takes an hour now. And that hour is awesome because there's so much more we wanna do in this department.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah. And it sounds like the company as a whole is pretty AI forward. We've spoken with some chief people officers and some departments of HR where they have taken that upon themselves or they've been given the remit of AI transformation across the company in conjunction with the IT team. And since you were mentioning that, yeah, it's a pretty holistic responsibility to make sure the humans are supported correctly, as part of the people experience team. How involved are you in that AI adoption across the business and the changes that come with it?
Claude Silver: You know, not so much. I'll say we have a really hefty IT team and we have mandatory AI sessions that people need to show up to so that they can learn all of the tips and tricks of the Gemini tool and everything else. So we attend those. We don't have the mandate. What's really wonderful is someone in IT has really owned that. I actually think that's where it belongs. I don't think it belongs in an HR department. I think HR department needs to be focused on human beings, not the tools.
Jeet Mukherjee: I'm very happy to hear you say that, that kind of someone who's so clear on where it sits. Because the lines do get blurred, because what we hear often is that, well, AI is not just a tool, it's a way of working, and therefore that requires change management. And how do we train up individuals and how do we help them alleviate the fear that actually is this going to take your job or not? And I think some of those discussions have quelled. But it sounds like if the IT team is running the tooling aspect of it. Are you also seeing some questions come up around, hey, is this going to affect my job or if I don't use it then what happens? Is that something that people experience is handling?
Claude Silver: Yes, I mean that fear is rampant everywhere and it is something that we're handling and the answer, the response we have is learn the tools. Play with the tools. And if you have a fear of them, raise your hand. Make sure you're getting extra assistance. Please, please, please don't suffer or struggle in silence. Because there are so many solutions. There are people that are well advanced in these tools that will make the time to meet with you or meet with a group of people. So that's what I can say. You need to be using and tinkering with these tools personally, professionally, and then I say, I don't see any AI coming for your job tomorrow.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah, the refrain is usually someone AI is not gonna replace your job, but someone who's learned how to use AI is going to replace your yeah. Yeah.
Claude Silver: That's right. Yeah, that's right. And yes, AI is here and the changes are coming on a daily basis and they're rapid. That alongside the uncertainty and the fear does heighten everything. Because I was around during the time when this thing called the internet came and there was a dial-up and then there was a modem and then there was a, you know, I no longer need to look in a phone book or an encyclopedia. Like there was all that fear too. A lot of people lost their jobs during those days, right? We see this type of evolution in certain periods of time, whether or not we first, used our physical labor to put shoes on horses and tires on cars, and then we started going into more of a cognition and the information age, and then we went into the social and the networked age. Like we keep seeing these ages come and provide us with tools and tips and efficiencies and speed and knowledge and fear. And then we adopt and adapt and then another one comes.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah. Speaking of these adoptions and these changes, you've been with the company for some time now and within that you've been running P&C. How have you seen P&C change with the advent of this newest change of AI? The day to day work and the type of work that you folks are doing?
Claude Silver: Well, I mean a thousand percent. If you're a project manager, you have found a lot of efficiencies. Definitely have. If you are a copywriter, you have found efficiencies. If you are on the finance team or the legal team, you're finding efficiencies. The thing I will say is the efficiencies are there, but we as human beings have to use our critical thinking skills and our judgment to see if this is valid. Does it work? We can't just copy paste. That's not going to do anyone any good because A, it's not bespoke enough and specific enough. And B, could be written academically when you want it to come across as very human. So the efficiencies are there, a thousand and one percent in all of these departments, and at the front of the house too, but we do need to use our noggin to make sure that, you know, we're guiding it right. It's a child. You still have to tell the child that it's time to brush your teeth.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah. Well this is the thing, because you were mentioning efficiencies and what we're hearing more and more and I'm experiencing this too, is that actually in some ways it's saving me time, but I'm working more hours and I'm spending... Is that what you're seeing too? Like your team is actually working longer and then more?
Claude Silver: I haven't seen that with the team. I've heard this and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens eventually. However, there are still things that need people. We can use AI to do a phone screen or vet a CV, right? We can do our best to remove the bias and do some kind of a phone screen. But because we care about culture so much and we really are aligned to our values, you need humans to then talk to this person. So, they're time savers and there are going to be ways in which we could use that save time in a more effective way.
Jeet Mukherjee: For sure. And how do you think the people and culture team will look like? I mean, maybe not in five years' time, because ChatGPT only came out, I think, three and a half years ago, so it's very hard to predict. But 18 months, two years, do you think it's gonna change quite a bit? And if so, how, given these new technologies?
Claude Silver: Yeah, well, it's a really good question, one that I think about quite a bit, because we're all talking about the future of work and we're all talking about what's next. I do think when I answer this question, I have to put in the importance of well-being and taking care of our employees and the change that's gonna come there. Because we know that well-being isn't a product. I think we've all been looking for that product off the shelf to give to your employees, yoga, gym pass, whatever that is. But when I think about the changes in the HR department, people and culture, I think that needs to be much more organic. And I really do feel as though we are going to be coaches. Much more than paper pushers and much more than the police. That's what I'd really like to see. Obviously, we're always going to need compliance, but I don't want to be in the business of no. I want to be in the business of yes and, in the business of, huh, let's take that into consideration. And so I think that we are going to have to be much more aligned. To how to help our employees with their struggles. And I don't mean we're not medical doctors or anything like that, but I do think coaching techniques are going to be more helpful than not. I would not be surprised if companies began to have some kind of therapy on staff, and I know some companies do already. I do think there's a need for separation though, of course, because we do go to work and get a paycheck and hopefully you're able to find support and counseling on the outside. But we know that there are things that happen within a work day based on someone's inability to emotionally regulate or people being burnt out or just crisis and grief that is from the outside that comes in, that I do think we have to take care of our people and we have to be extremely intentional about that. And that's why I brought up the fact that well being isn't a product off the shelf.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah, you gotta have the humans for that. I'm curious to hear as we look at 18 months to 24 months, you mentioned that you didn't wanna be a team of paper pushers, and absolutely so. In a lot of I guess traditional teams, the way that juniors or entry-level folks are trained up is by pushing paper. And so I'm wondering what your thoughts are on what it means for new talent coming in within people and experience and people and culture. Would you be hiring in juniors into the team or you mentioned at the beginning of the call, you have so much lived experience and that's what makes it super useful. But now we have AI and you don't want folks to be paper pushers. What does that mean for new talent?
Claude Silver: We still need coordinators and we still need associates, but in a different level now. We don't need the coordinators to send out exit interview information anymore. We don't need the coordinators to send out reminders, so to speak. Right? As a matter of fact, the coordinators that we've brought in lately, we are really doing our best to upskill them fast so that they can become part of the HR department. So that they can actually do what it is that they want to do, which is be with people. So however, there are in other departments we have absolutely been able to lily pad from needing an associate to starting with a supervisor now.
Jeet Mukherjee: Hmm. As you're thinking about bringing in coordinators at another level, any tips for someone who's thinking about getting into HR people experience as their first role? I mean, you've been someone who hasn't come from that from the start. Would you recommend they start there or start somewhere else?
Claude Silver: That's a great question. I'm going to say I think human behavior and psychology are incredible, incredible places to start studying or to be curious about. That's the first thing. I think org development or org psychology is something to be curious about. So if you are starting your career in HR, I would like to say get some of that under your belt. Rather than coming in cold and you know coming from a university or a place in which you've learned about compliance, learn about people and really work on listening skills.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah, a lot of the human stuff. And I didn't hear the mention of AI in there, which is very refreshing to hear. When you are hiring people, we've seen some companies who have done AI fluency courses and it sounds like you have similar things with mandatory AI training, but when you're bringing people in, are you testing for AI or are you testing for other things that will maybe help them pick up AI faster?
Claude Silver: It depends on the department. So if you are in media, you are being tested on Excel spreadsheets and doing any kind of you know fake media buying, you can use AI for that. If you are being hired in creative as a creator, you're going to shoot on your iPhone, of course you can edit with AI. Like that's just normal. And we would rather that you are doing that now. What I would say though is if you are coming in as a copywriter, please don't use AI to respond to that test, or don't use AI. Say you're a strategist and your assignment is create a comm strategy for a made-up brand. Yeah, of course use some AI, but really use your critical thinking skills. You know, there so I wanna say like we're here and we're in this world and we're and everyone is using AI. I do really want new joiners, especially those that are in their first or second career, to get comfortable with these tools. They don't by no means need to be an expert, but to be comfortable with them or to get up to speed pretty quick once they are here and taking some of our courses. But there are certain things that don't need to be done by a human being anymore. For example, you do not need to have a human being send out meeting notes. You don't have to have a human being take meeting notes. You know, those are the things that I think are extremely different from my time. And I mean, I'm a Gen Xer, so I still write notes with a pen and paper. Because that's just the way I learn and it's a good habit that I have. But I think we want people now to come in with a curiosity and asking questions about their own growth and development and what they will receive in partnership coming into our company and what we agree to give them for their time and their energy and their heart and their head.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah, nice. And speaking of humans and using their time correctly, you mentioned that some of the AI that you've already implemented is helping you to save one person's time from doing that administrative repetitive work and now they can focus on more of the human work. How do you kind of see that scale? So let's say the company goes from 2,000 to 3,000 or 4,000. Do you see the People and Experience teams of the future stay flat, are they not growing at the same rate? Or because they're actually doing more human work, actually you're not buying into the what folks are saying, which is that actually no, we'll keep the G&A functions flat. Do you actually see it scale linearly as companies grow?
Claude Silver: I do, I do see it scaling linearly, not as fast as some of the other expansion right now. I think it's because I really, really believe in the human touch and I believe in we all need to bring more humanity into the workplace. Whatever that looks like, I do feel as though we're going to need coaches to do that. And so whether or not they are called coaches or HRBPs, I do think we are going to need that. I don't think that we're at a place yet where everyone is going to go to ChatGPT to get their answers. And I don't want them to. There's something about the living, breathing values of a company that I believe humans can transfer at this moment more than your agent can.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah, I like what you said at this moment. It sounds like you're open to seeing that change potentially.
Claude Silver: Yeah. I mean, listen online learning. I mean, all these things are going to completely evolve in our face. And one of the things that we wanted to take into consideration, again, like let's talk about online learning is or learning and development, is we already know that people learn differently today. And not many people want classroom style learning. So what does that look like? Is it you know, LinkedIn learning? Are we creating bespoke two, three-minute videos for people? What is it that's going to really give someone that aha, and they go home that day. And they go, wow, I really moved the needle today based on whatever I took, you know.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah, speaking of aha moments, I was gonna ask you, it sounds like you've had so many rewarding experiences that keeps you at a particular company. And you've been there for some time now. What is the secret to keeping people where they are? If there is a secret.
Claude Silver: Well, I think the secret is that safety and that sense of belonging and that's and that recognition of some kind and letting people know that they matter. And I say all of this without coddling or creating entitlement.
Jeet Mukherjee: That's a hard line to draw.
Claude Silver: It's a hard, hard line. One needs to be able to balance empathy and accountability in the same breath. And that we need help with right now. We all need help with. But that's the key, I think, is people want to be accountable. People want to learn. They want to grow. They want to have momentum in their life. And they want someone to care about them and be able to say, I see you and I believe in you. And I right now I want that to be a human being doing that. We haven't cracked that as a human race right now. There are so many people out there that are asking for growth and development, and no one's talked to them yet. In every company, our company too. No one has actually said, let me help you go from point A to point B or let me connect you with someone that can help you. And I'm not saying bring in, you know, a program or necessarily bring in another corporate coach or whatever, but there are people within the company, within the four walls of a company that can mentor unofficially mentor. We have to be really putting people in positions of strength and putting people around them that will also infuse them. And when Gary said to me back in the day, listen, I know you didn't want to do HR, but you're going to do HR and you're going to hire our strong team around you. Well, that took seven years to hire. You know, I didn't find those people immediately. And I found some, and then I realized, okay, that's not the right one. Need to go back to the drawing board. I didn't get them right away. You know, I hired recruiters and I didn't think that they were the greatest first line that people saw, right? They were more cynical, but it just didn't fly for me, for our culture.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah. I mean you've invested a lot in the human experience. But you're also pretty AI forward by the sounds of things. And yeah.
Claude Silver: Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, I would not put my head in the sand. Especially like just being in the working world for so long, I've learned and I want to have accountability. I wanna be able to be part of this change and alleviate people's fears or anxieties as much as I can. You know, and I go back to doing my very best, doing our very best to not create entitlement because then that softens everything. It's hard to stand up when the ground is very, very wet.
Jeet Mukherjee: Okay, I love the analogy. The visuals in my head right now about wet grounds. Can you tell me a little bit more about the entitlement piece? What tends to create that and how do you kind of prevent that?
Claude Silver: Well, what creates that is someone saying to you, hey, great job on that presentation, and letting you go on Monday. Right? Or like, hey, you're doing a great job, like not being as candid and honest as we can be with kindness, which is that was a really good presentation. I really liked the way you showed up. I do want to say that there were spelling mistakes all throughout the presentation. And that just tells me that once again, you're not paying attention to the details here, or you're not having someone look at your work, right? Being honest with you. And so from here on out, I need you to spend an hour before you show me that deck and go through it with a fine-tooth comb and use AI to do that. So forth and so on, right? But we have to be able to deliver what we call kind candor. Kind, connect with people, understand people, understand their limitations. You know, how about putting someone on a performance plan and not really understanding that they have ADHD and they've never told anyone about it? Okay, doesn't mean we're going to stop the performance plan, but it means that we need to help them set up their working environment and their space in a different way. That I think is a two-way street, though. We need to know the information. And so one of the things I say to all of our new joiners and our residents and our interns on day one is, and if anyone else is dyslexic like me, come talk to me afterwards. That's me being vulnerable and me saying, Yep, that's me. I've struggled with it. It's a superpower now. I don't want you to have to struggle with it here. So let's address that.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah. I mean I would love to be a fly on the wall in those places. It sounds like it's a great place of transparency and support, which is good to hear. Yeah.
Claude Silver: We try. Yeah, we try. I mean, and you know this as a founder and a leader, I'm not gonna hit it out of the park every day, and nor is everyone else. And sometimes if we're lucky, we're gonna catch that person before they go home and say, I had the worst day ever, and my manager stinks. If we're lucky.
Jeet Mukherjee: It takes a lot. It's like an entire other job. Like you're doing your own job, let's say, but then you have to have that awareness to pick up on those signals. And you mentioned coaching. Is that something that you're seeing as kind of the primary way of spreading that culture where you have HRBPs who are working super closely with managers to help build that awareness, or are there other ways that you're supporting managers?
Claude Silver: Yeah, that's one way for sure. And the other way is creating a lot of bespoke training, which is what I do a lot of now, based on now, you know, I've had so many conversations with people in the last 12 years and knowing I'm pretty, pretty solid on knowing where our bumps in the roads are middle management, messy middle, those types of things, and being able to create and deliver those trainings pretty quickly, or to upskill our leaders so that they understand the importance of emotional regulation and pausing before they go nuts on someone. Or a leader understanding and watching the room or the Zoom that one person was just interrupted three times. Do something about that.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yes. Yeah. Well, Claude, it's been awesome to hear about your journey and how you're balancing the human and the AI. Before we wrap up, are there any final thoughts that you want to leave someone with who might be listening to this and they're trying to figure out where to put in AI, where not to put in AI, how to make the most of it while still balancing the humanity in their role?
Claude Silver: Yeah, I mean I think what I would leave people with is we need people and team is everything. And so before you make a call on what AI to bring in, if that's your role, talk to people. Understand where they're at, understand where their anxieties might be, understand what they might need. I think we, those of us that are playing with these tools or the decision makers, need to be one step ahead right now before we bring something into an organization or instill that everyone uses a tool that some people are just gonna be slower on the uptake.
Jeet Mukherjee: Yeah, you gotta talk to people and you gotta use the tools yourself to be able to set that baseline. Well, Claude, thank you so much again for joining us on The WorkOps Podcast.
Claude Silver: Appreciate you.
Jeet Mukherjee: Appreciate you too. And to everyone else listening, we will catch you on the next one. Thanks so much.