Travis and Derek explore the power of culture in organizations. Travis shares key insights about building culture intentionally. Plus who doesn't like a great football comeback?
Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!
Welcome to the Essential Dynamics Podcast. I'm Derek Hudson. Essential Dynamics is a framework I've been working on, to help us think through our most challenging and interesting opportunities. And in the podcast, we test the concepts of essential dynamics through deep conversations with interesting people. I have one of those interesting people on the show today, Travis Anderson, a friend of mine from way back.
Derek:Travis, welcome to Essential Dynamics.
Travis:Thank you. Excited to be here. Anytime I even anytime I have a conversation with you, I look forward to it. So
Derek:So so I I guess, we gotta start with how we met. And we don't have to take a lot of time, but, Travis and I both, we were roommates in Seoul, Korea in 1981. Both volunteer missionaries, and I just learned a tremendous amount from, from Travis. And we had a lot of fun together, probably more fun than we should have, but we had a lot of fun together, a lot of stories and met a lot of fantastic people. What do you remember from those days, Travis?
Travis:You know, what I remember the most was just, literally, it was it was an adventure. And and I've always liked adventures. You know? It's like, it was just fascinating for me to spend time in a country that I had no idea even really didn't know a whole lot about it at all beforehand. And then going over there and and and being a missionary was is certainly a a great opportunity.
Travis:But you know what I enjoyed the most is just the people, particularly the people that I was able to partner with, including you and and several other people. But, what I love was the uniqueness of the culture. I think that's really where it got started. My my interest in culture building is is recognizing the power of just understanding the differences in in in the culture of countries and how fascinating it is, yet at the same time, how how much people are all the same at the end of the day. So
Derek:So that a fantastic introduction. That sets us up really well. I I'm gonna pick up two words from what you said, adventure and culture. So, just to give a little recap of essential dynamics, essential dynamics starts from the idea that life is hard. And, you know, we face we face opposition in challenging times and and to make that make more sense, it's kind of fun to put our endeavors, in the context of a quest, of an epic quest.
Derek:And and when we're on an, when we're on a quest, we're not surprised that things are hard because that's that's why those stories are interesting to us is that we're as we're facing opposition and we have hard times. And so yeah, that mission experience that we both had was the hardest thing that either of us had done to that point in our lives. And, mine got harder after, after we split up, and I ended up in Chicago. I've talked about that a little bit, on a much earlier podcast. But the idea that we can take the challenges that we face in organizations and in our relationships in society and put that in the context of a quest is the start of essential dynamics.
Derek:And then all I've all I've done with it, to recap is the quest has three essential elements. There's this important purpose, that we have to, you know, save the village or slay the dragon. There's some people involved that, you know, that have to do it typically that are called out of a state of comfort to to go on a journey. And so the journey is the third element and then so I like to talk about people, path, and purpose. And then for each of people path and purpose, we look at the impact of opposing forces or dynamic forces.
Derek:And with purpose, we talk about the idea that we never just have one, but there's a purpose x and a purpose y. For the path or the processes and systems that we take to to achieve the purpose, We have, opposing forces of the things that hold us back are constraints and the things that propel us forward are drivers. And on the people side of I've just come to think of it as the real conflict on the people side is that we're we wanna be our own person and belong to ourself, but we also need to be part of a group. And so we need to fit into a group. So that's that's essential dynamics in a nutshell.
Derek:And then the other word you said was so that's all based on an adventure. And then you talked about culture. And what I really wanted to get you on the show today other than the fact that, I love spending time with you is I wanted to get some insight into that idea of how you can, as a leader in an organization, create or design or impact culture, and what that means to try and get people, to help you accomplish the purpose. So, Travis, maybe we could start with, your your journey then. You went to Korea, experienced this culture that was very different from, you know, what you grew up with.
Derek:I watched it happen. I was there. What was it that, stuck with you as you took that back home and started your schooling?
Travis:Good good question. You know, it's like, I just feel like my eyes were opened. Right? And and and, again, open to the to the world. I I I just think that, traveling is probably one of the very best ways to to really understand what it means to to appreciate culture.
Travis:But when I get got back, what I realized was is that I had a lot of interest, but the all the interest revolved around two things, connecting and uniting. Connecting with people and uniting people, to a greater cause. Right? So I always enjoyed even as a student, a university student, connecting with people that I that I found interesting, which is pretty much anybody and everybody, but particularly people from different walks of life, to be honest with you. I remember, I came back and and my undergraduate work was at Utah State, and then I went to the University of Utah to do some graduate work.
Travis:But in in Utah State, there was a lot of foreign students there. And so, I had a chance to visit with a lot of people from a lot of different countries. And I've been always fascinated with the fact that that when you really connect with people, magic things happen. And whether from different country or what have you. And then, I studied psychology in in school, and then I realized that I always had interest in, you know, obvi the what really drove me as a kid was sports.
Travis:I've always enjoyed sports. I've always loved connecting. And it wasn't just winning and and and the competition, although I did love that. It was the camaraderie on the bench. Right?
Travis:So as you ask what I did when I came back, I started asking myself what I wanna really do, you know, for a living. I knew that I love people. That's why I took psychology to understand what makes people tick. And then as I was finishing up my degree, I realized that I, I love the university campus, and and I love learning and growing. And so I decided to take, another adventure and went to University of Utah studying, actually, the department of communication focused on organizational theory and team building and leadership.
Travis:And so I fell in love with teaching. I was a teaching fellow there, so I taught probably, it's a really fascinated me as as much as I enjoyed the research and learning. I love teaching was there. And in addition to my master's, I ended up working on my PhD. And what's interesting is the last class I taught, and this is kinda brings me back to to to where I am now.
Travis:The last class I taught, I invited a guest speaker who was a management consultant just doing what I'm doing now, to be honest. And, he he talked about building culture in the real world. And, and he kept calling me after that, but I had my mindset. I was gonna be a professor. And so I I, you know, I I had my focus.
Travis:I had my aim. But I'm telling you, the guy was just persistent. He kept saying, you can still do what you love to do, Travis, but just do it out in the real world, man. You have a lot more time. You can travel.
Travis:And, of course, I love travel. Long story short, I joined him as the best decision I ever met. And literally for the next thirty three years, I've been a management consultant focusing on building culture. I my company is called Culture Builders, and I believe that, it's been a it's just been a total adventure. I've loved every minute of it.
Travis:And, interestingly enough, the the the culture fascination really came with me at the end of the day to to answer your question. What I am convinced of after, my my work at the university and learning what I've done, culture is a lot one thing I've never got tired of talking about is is that you either create your culture by design or by default. Either way, it's gonna be there, so you might as well just do it intentionally. So that's what I've been doing the last thirty years.
Derek:So culture by design?
Travis:Yep.
Derek:And so how would an organization most of the organ well, all of the organizations that I know about, that I work with, that I've worked for, you know, are in existence. We're not creating a new one. That's maybe a different story. So you've got an organization that's, it's got a culture, whether someone designed it or not, it's got a culture. How do you how do you look at an organization's culture and discern what's happening?
Travis:Well, that's a great question, but you do the same thing you do when you go to a country. You just observe. You just observe. You listen. You you you sense.
Travis:You you just really absolutely in my mind, it's it's one of the coolest parts of what I do is is I'm a big believer. You never prescribe before you, diagnose. Right? So so when I go into a culture, I I try to be really curious. Right?
Travis:I go in and I try to think about what do I notice? What's different? What's unique? What's tangible? What how and and to be honest, I I love the idea of culture more than anything else is about two things, relationships and energy.
Travis:Right? And so when you feel the energy and and you go in and have dialogue and conversations, you just notice certain things. Because at the end of the day, culture is not that complicated. It's the way we do things around here. It's the way we do things around here.
Travis:And quite honestly, it's the way we treat one another and the energy that you feel. It's not something that that it it's really is something you feel, and and and it's something that you can create because I believe we all have, more ability to to create and and impact people and and impact the culture than we all think. I really believe that the the power of one person has been fascinating because I've noticed that when I go into a company, I'm drawn to the people that seem to impact the culture the most. And quite frankly, they're the leaders in the company. And sometimes those leaders are not necessarily the the official title managers.
Travis:They're other people that because of their sheer clarity about who they are and what they're about, impact people around them in very creative ways. So, anyway, that's kinda what I like to do is I just kinda like to go and be an observer, be an anthropologist.
Derek:Oh, that's that's fantastic. So so many places to go with this, but I wanna pick up on one word you said, energy.
Travis:Yeah.
Derek:I I'm a student of the theory of constraints. So when I'm putting essential dynamics together, the idea that a process, you know, we talk about the path, is limited in its output by something and that something is the constraint. There's a huge body of work on that. Half the books on my bookshelf, you know, are on that discipline and, there's there's lots to it. But I was interested in that as they're looking at at dynamic forces of the opposite of that, which I would call a driver.
Derek:And my question for the driver is where does the organization get its energy? And what what propels it towards its purpose? So I think that drivers and energy, I think that's, you know, that's corresponding here. So let me talk some more of or like get you to talk some more about where you see energy, how you detect it, and what is the source of energy in a, let's say, a functional corporate culture.
Travis:Well, that's a really good question. And and and I wanna address that by the reason why I feel so strongly about energy is I think it goes back to my roots in sports. I just came back from, last weekend. I had a chance to see, University of Utah, who's my alma mater and who I've been at have a chance to do a lot of, work with over the years, especially in the athletic department. Last I I've had a chance to do maybe over 40 or 50 retreats for their football, basketball team, and actually the whole athletic department.
Travis:But last week, they, beat USC for the Pac twelve championship, and it was an incredible game. Halfway through the second quarter, the youth were losing. This is in in Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas. They were losing 17 to three. And I looked over at the side of the USC, and all I can see is a bunch of, just to be honest with you, very, what I say, happy people, but they seem pretty arrogant, man.
Travis:They were just joking and talking around and just kinda, like, acting like, man, we got this in the bag. You know? You could just feel it. On the other hand, I look over the other side, and I saw determination. I saw grit.
Travis:I didn't see a team at all giving up, and that's the thing I love about their culture over the years is they've they're known for being tough minded and and tough physically, but more importantly, they just have always had a grit about them. That that over the time, they've they've they've been the most successful program over the last five years in the Pac twelve. And it's crazy when you're you're competing with programs like USC, UCLA, Stanford, these companies, these colleges that have so much more money, so many more resources, but the University of Utah is number one. And one of the biggest reasons what is because of the energy of what happened after it was 17 to three, Derek, was unbelievable. There was just something magical happened that that, they just started to, just get it going.
Travis:I I can't I'm trying to remember exactly what it was, but there was just a I think what it was is there was, like, like, four minutes left in the second half, and all of a sudden, they just went in their two minute offense and bam, and went down and scored. Right? And then all of a sudden, you could feel the momentum, the energy switch. And sure enough, it was a three and out, and then they only had a minute and five minute, ten minute and ten seconds to get the ball, and they had the ball, and they had a chance to go all the way down. Yet again, they were able to just just they were all fully engaged and went down and scored in the halftime in the 17 to 17.
Travis:Long story short, the final score was 47 to 23. They scored 44 straight points and only gave up seven points, all because of culture in my mind. USC had many more talented people, But I gotta tell you, the coaching staff and the players, you could just feel it. I mean and you could sense the energy in them. And and it wasn't just for the team.
Travis:The entire 65, 70 percent of the stadium was filled up with University of Utah fans in Vegas. Do you believe that?
Derek:Yeah. Wow.
Travis:The reason I'm sharing that is the same dynamic can happen in companies that but it requires focus and energy. You have to create culture by design. There's three things that the best leaders I know in in corporate America do if they really want to create an outstanding culture. And it goes along with what I just shared with you in terms of sports. Number one is culture has to be number one priority.
Travis:It has to be a priority. Number two, those leaders have to, frankly, do the work, the personal work. They have to be on a growth path. They have to be creatively building their their their leadership and understanding. They have to be in a growth mode.
Travis:They have to stop. They they need to keep learning. I I always say to to leaders, at the moment you stop learning, you stop leading. So you've gotta walk the talk. Right?
Travis:Because you can have all the platitudes on the wall and everything, and a lot of football teams do, but unless you're being able to walk the talk. Kyle Whittingham, in my mind, is probably one of the best examples of that. He's, an incredible coach who walks the talk. You know? He and I text back and forth all the time.
Travis:He never got too big for, you know, for himself. Unfortunately, there's a lot of coaches I see in college football, pro football. All of a sudden, it's all about them and not the team. That's not the way it is with Kyle. It's always about the team and culture.
Travis:So number two is is walking the talk. Last but not least, they become master connectors slash master communicators. I think I mentioned to you before that at the end of the day, connecting and uniting is what culture is all about. Right? So you need to connect with yourself first, have a sense of confidence, have a belief that you can impact people.
Travis:You can impact you you can you can make a difference in people's lives. And then you create an environment where you have a psychological safe space, right, where people can feel a part of something bigger than themselves, where they have a sense of belonging. Right? They have a sense of purpose, and they have a sense of excitement. That's what good cultures do, in sports and in in in the corporate world.
Derek:So, Travis, I would connect sense of purpose to something you said earlier, which I don't remember, but I'm gonna listen to it again, about, the source of energy.
Travis:Yeah. Yeah.
Derek:And they're and they're so they're connected. So, you know, some some of the clients that I work with are I I worked with some companies in the medical field, so they're they're gonna, like, they're fighting heart disease and cancer and stuff like that. Every football team tries to score more points than their opponent every game. It's not that unique. So how does a football team get a sense of purpose, to the to the point where, you can create that energy and get people outside themselves?
Travis:Very good question. Because, yeah. And winning is important, but purpose is bigger than winning a game. That's the thing I love about it is, one of the reasons why they've been particularly successful this year and last year is University of Utah lost two other top top players. One to an accident accidental shooting a year ago after Christmas and another one in a in a freak accident at a at a, a team function party this year.
Derek:Oh, my.
Travis:And they were two of the best players, but they had unbelievable everyone loved them on that team. And to be honest with you, one of the reasons why I think they've been so successful this year and last year is because of that sense of purpose. At the end of the third quarter of every game this year, everyone turns on the light. And instead of a a moment of silence, they have a moment of loudness. Everyone yells at the top of their lungs.
Travis:Talk about energy. I get chills down the back. And they did it in Vegas too in the end of the third quarter. And I'm telling you, it was a magical moment there because you could see have you seen that? You know, at the concerts, everyone puts up their their their lights, you know, for with their with their cell phone.
Travis:It was so powerful because they're not winning just to win a game. They're doing it because they wanna be the best they can be. Kyle Wenning has a has a perspective on it's not you can't control certain things. You can't control certain things out there, but what you can't control is not only your energy, but your focus and your commitment to doing it not just to win, but to do it for each other. That's the key.
Travis:They're doing it for each other. There's a brotherhood out there. We do two day routines with the top 12 players in the beginning of the year, and all we do is get to know each other as brothers. We don't talk football at all. We talk about what life is all about.
Travis:And these guys talk about their upbringing. They talk about things they've been faced with, what they've champ been challenged with, talk about journey. They talk about it. And then football is a microcosm of how they can support one another in that way.
Derek:So if you can do it for football, have you found an organization where you couldn't find a sense of purpose and bring people together?
Travis:That's a good question. It's It's interesting you share that because I I'm working with a couple of clients right now. I've been working for four years. I'm not gonna share their names, but, it's been a real struggle because just when I think we're we're starting to come together, something else happens. Some of those constraints, those things that pull people apart.
Travis:And it's been really frustrating because I have to answer your question. Absolutely. I have. You know? And, I'd like to say that, those are the companies I I I'd share the hardest for and the ones I work, that I get excited about because they're the biggest challenge.
Travis:But I've had a few experiences where I've been able to turn a few companies around like that, not not me, but we together as a team because of the power of of a of a of a of a purpose and and being clear about, connecting with people and, frankly, the path. I love the essential dynamics because essentially, I've been with that with different words. That's what I've been focused on over the years, and and I've seen some changes. But I gotta tell you some I I've been also been very disappointed when we feel like we're just about ready to break through. And then we've had leaders that that that that just frankly, I I have a client right now that, in the summer, one of the owners of the company, because he wasn't walking the talk in his in his in his, personal life, got addicted.
Travis:He has a drug addiction problem that he never admitted to. And, he had all kinds of personal issues where he he out of nowhere, he he left his marriage and and, and and and just changed his it it was it was just totally unfortunate because he, I'm just I'm really kinda hesitant to even talk about it because, you know, people will find out about it. But, honestly, what happened was well, I can't go into the specifics, but, from a personal standpoint, he just took a left turn. And it devastated the company because he he literally didn't have that personal integrity to be able to live true to, what the the the culture had stood for up to that point. The good news is is that we're in the process of recovering and we're gonna do it because one person can't take the company down, but I will tell you that personal integrity is one of the key elements, to creating a culture that is long standing, and it can can test can can can really create long term success.
Derek:So, Travis, I knew this would happen. Like, our time is up for this episode.
Travis:And we
Derek:and we've just barely got started. So can I like, we're gonna have to have you back, and we're gonna have to keep going? But let let me try and just re recapture, like, one one tidbit from this, is that we found a connection between energy and purpose. And I believe it's possible for any organization that set out to do something that's not, like, bad for the human race, to line up around a purpose. But I think what you're telling me is the people involved are critical to that, especially leaders needing to walk the talk.
Travis:Absolutely. For sure.
Derek:And that's not easy.
Travis:No, it's not.
Derek:It's not easy. So, so let's just pick up this conversation. And what I'd like to do in our next episode, if we can, is to talk about culture by design and what an organization could do if they decided they wanted to get more intentional about culture so that they can take advantage of all the energy and capabilities of the people that they're probably not not fully tapping the potential of right now. So let's, let's let's meet up again right away. Is that okay?
Travis:Yeah. That'll be great. Look forward to it, my friend.
Derek:So so, Travis, if, if people are interested in tracking you down, is it Culture Builders they should look for?
Travis:CultureBuilders.com. Probably the easiest way.
Derek:Excellent. And and for me, you can find me at getunconstrained.com. And, either of us would be happy to hear any comments or input from our from our listeners. And so, I'd like to thank Brent Grips in the studio, Travis Anderson, my, former, companion from many years ago. Thanks for being on the show, and everyone, and please, until next time, consider your quest.