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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Becky Mollenkamp (00:01.166)
Hello. How are you? It has been weeks since we've talked and I was saying this is a long, yeah, it's a long as I've gone without talking to you since we started the podcast and I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. So I'm happy to see you and hear you again.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:02.211)
Hi. I'm okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:09.474)
It feels strange.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:15.724)
Yeah. Yeah.
I think aside from my wife, you're probably the person I talk to the most, generally speaking. Just because of the podcast, the culture circle, like all this stuff.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:25.486)
That makes me happy for sure. Same here. And because we have a standing, honestly, I've no one else. Well, you and Faith, but I talked to you probably even more than Faith because we do. I think we have a few more things going on. And with Faith, we don't always do the podcast. So like I have no one else where I have this standing. We talk about and and I like like it's a place for me to do the venting and the talking and the whatever about stuff that my husband's like, I don't want to talk about this anymore.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:43.479)
Yeah
Taina Brown she/hers (00:54.53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:55.374)
Which speaking of one of those things that I've been talking about incessantly and so has the world is Venezuela and what has gone on. 2026 has already said, Hey 2025, hold my beer. Like this year is off to a start.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:02.827)
Ayayay
You
it is, it really is. Yeah, I obviously saw that, not on the news because I've had a month, but saw it on social media for sure.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:25.218)
saying, actually, my husband, this is a maybe one of the only times that I can say where my husband broke news to me because normally I'm scrolling social media, I'm listening to some of my news podcasts. I don't watch the news as much as I used to, but I'm generally pretty plugged in on what's happening, but I so checked out over the holiday end of year time that he actually told me, did you see that we invaded Venezuela and took Maduro? And I was like, wait, what? What are you talking about?
It felt so, even though we've been doing all these, the bombings of these ships, alleged drug cartel ships for months now, and Trump's been talking about vague, sort of like vaguely about Venezuela and Maduro and all of that. It still felt kind of left field. I'm like, wait, what, why are we at war with Venezuela? Like what's, and it was all very shocking to me. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:59.179)
yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:04.438)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:17.95)
yeah. because of oil. because of oil, becky. because of oil. it's funny because like... but why now? yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:23.502)
Well, I know why, but I meant like why now, I guess is more of the question. Yeah, it felt a little like, new year, new war. Okay, I guess that's what we're doing. It was very strange to me.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:30.976)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was very strange. It's funny because like we, my wife was on social media and she saw one of the news headlines about
Venezuelan president, ex-president, I don't know what to call him. yeah, dictator being tried here and Mello was like, for what? We're not the International Criminal Court. Like, why are we?
Becky Mollenkamp (02:47.64)
Yeah, dictator.
Becky Mollenkamp (02:57.046)
And if we were, then why are we not trying our own president, let alone Netanyahu and some, yeah, right.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:00.587)
Ray, Ray.
Like we don't, we're not like a neutral ground to like hold that kind of trial for someone.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:11.512)
Well, and I saw that Pam Bondi, one of the charges was him being in possession of machine guns. And I was like, right. I'm like, then are we going to try all of the Americans January 6th? It's the whole thing is like it's clear, obviously, is like we have a plan that here's what we want to do, which is we want oil. And I think potentially even more than that, like maybe even land grab.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:18.781)
What?
Taina Brown she/hers (03:24.194)
The, yeah, who have AK-47s.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:41.814)
And we're going to devise a plan that makes it somehow justified, which, by the way, this is not new. This is is a wonderful American tradition. Right. So, yeah, it's not new to this president, but it does feel that the thing that feels different to me this time and more uniquely Trumpian is the blatant the way we're just blatantly now saying.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:46.859)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:51.546)
yeah, they've been doing this for decades.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:11.314)
Yeah, we're gonna take the oil. We want the oil. That is, in the past, we've done it. We've always done these horrible things, but we've been a little more like diplomatic about it, right? And that now all diplomacy. Yeah, all diplomacy, all politics has just gone out the window at this point. Now you've got the State Department tweeting an image that says it's our hemisphere. Like as in America owns
Taina Brown she/hers (04:12.747)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:22.012)
Yes, yes. There's more political intrigue.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:39.31)
the Western Hemisphere, I don't know if you saw that. Yeah, that came from the State Department.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:40.692)
What the fuck?
Jesus fucking Christ!
Becky Mollenkamp (04:46.69)
Yeah, yeah, this is the world we live in now that we are. And this is now he's calling it the Don Rowe Doctrine, not the Monroe Doctrine, the Don Rowe. So stupid. man like it's all theater except it has really terrifying consequences. Right. Like it's like if you're, you know, 90 year old or 80 year old dad or grandpa who sits around and talks, you know, with a tinfoil hat talking about how
Taina Brown she/hers (05:04.553)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:16.362)
America used to be good back when I was a kid. Like all of that. Like and then we put him in charge. Like you can sit kind of in a way, just almost giggle at like how absurd and caricature that grandpa is until you're like, wait a minute. But now that crazy grandpa of mine has real power, the real consequences. And it's terrifying. And this is one of the first times I guess I can't say there's been so much going on. But this is like there's something about it that feels really
Taina Brown she/hers (05:23.541)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (05:28.515)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:35.466)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:46.072)
really heavy in a way that a lot of other things maybe haven't felt like on such a grand scale, I guess.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:47.604)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:53.662)
Yeah, well, it feels like a return to colonialism and empire and expanding, you know, what's word I'm looking for? Expanding, not Providence. Fuck, I can't think of it right now. I'm on my second cup of coffee and I still can't think straight.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:13.102)
It doesn't Good for you. Well, it's a pair of menopause too, is always there. I'm now just, blame everything on that. It makes life easy just to say, can't help it. Which I think the most time it probably is. When you say a return to colonialism, right? Right. I like, I don't know. But I think it's the, again, it goes back to that how blatant it is, right? In the past, we've remained a colonial kind of colonizing empire for the entirety of our
Taina Brown she/hers (06:20.841)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:28.544)
I don't think we ever left.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:34.589)
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:40.478)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Puerto Rico, Guam, Hawaii, the Middle East, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:42.825)
the US's existence.
Iran, Iraq, yeah, mean, just, you know, and now I guess the difference is like with what Gaza, the way Trump talks about Gaza and now with what's happening with Venezuela, it's just the blatant, it's like, instead of pretending that we aren't colonizers, right, that we're there to spread democracy across the world or we're fighting for freedoms for others, like now it's just, no, it's just this blatant, no, we now wanna own the Western hemisphere, it's ours.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:04.18)
Yeah, it's like, no, this is ours. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:12.543)
We want it. Yeah, yeah, we want it. So we're going to take it.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:16.3)
Yeah, exactly. is, this just hit me, but it does, he is a rapist. We can use that term because the courts agreed and have actually said he cannot sue when people say he's a rapist because he was found guilty of rape. and it feels like that, it's that, it's that I want you, I want this, I want this, I will take this. And when you have, this is what happens when you elect a rapist.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:25.022)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:33.214)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:37.064)
Yeah.
yeah. yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:45.332)
Yeah, they just take what they want.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:46.412)
That rapist mentality, that control, that I see, I take. Yeah, that doesn't just, it doesn't get compartmentalized. A man who shows up that way with women will show up that way in all ways in his life. And he always has, even going back to property and land and the way he has used people's labor and the way he has treated tenants.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:51.092)
It's about power.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:07.573)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:11.039)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:15.342)
in all parts of his life. This is who he is. He's shown us who he is. So we can't act surprised, but...
Taina Brown she/hers (08:17.457)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, you know, it begs to be noted that like, that's how capitalism works, right? You don't ask for permission, you don't like collaborate, you don't try to work with other people, right? The goal is to be on top, right? It's all about power grabs, no matter what it takes, right? Increasing profit margins.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:41.304)
no matter what it takes to get there.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:47.347)
by power grabs, by exploitation, by not treating your employees, not treating the land, not treating other companies well.
There's that correlation between capitalism, economics, and rape culture, geopolitics, and rape culture, because it's a very highly individualistic, toxic individualistic kind of mindset that, like you said, doesn't... You're one, like we are one, like you're one person, right? Like I'm one person, like he is one person.
The way that you function, the way that you think about how to run your business, that bleeds over into how you interact with people, your interpersonal relationships. It's all, you're one person. So no matter whether you're at work, whether you're at home, whether you're out of the country, whether you're at the doctor's office, whether you're by yourself,
those ideas, those mindsets, those beliefs, like bleed into every area of your life. And this is why it's so important to like know who you are and know who you're with, right? Like make sure you know the value systems of the people that you're engaging with and like who you're, like you can't just be like, I separate politics from everything else. Like somebody said that over the holidays and it was a white person and they were like,
Becky Mollenkamp (10:24.514)
A shock.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:25.998)
they always gotta bring politics into everything. it was like, it was at a family gathering, so I didn't say anything because I was like, we were already going through enough. So I was just like, whatever, don't have it in me to get into this right now. But in my mind, I'm like, well, that's easy for you to say, like, these politics affect me every day. They might not affect you every day, but they affect me every day. Like they affect the people that I care about every day. They affect how they, yeah, they affect what happens in my business. Right. Like
Becky Mollenkamp (10:49.656)
Your existence is political.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:55.495)
things that impact how I have to run my business, how I'm forced to run my business sometimes. so, and it's interesting because this was also a business owner who...
Becky Mollenkamp (11:03.95)
Yeah, but again, it's a white business owner who, yeah, hinting at our future series that we are still working on behind the scenes, everything is political because everything is political. But what you said, too, about the not being able to separate these things, it makes me think and I can't tell you who said it, but I heard once and it's so true. How you do anything is how you do everything. And I think when you have more privilege, it's easy to not believe that, right? We start to think, no, I can carpe.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:06.396)
yeah. yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:11.909)
Yes, we are. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:31.506)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:32.674)
compartmentalize myself and it's fine. And it makes me think of like the white women, those 50 whatever percent of white women, 55 % who said, well, I'll vote for Trump because I'm voting. Like I can separate out these things. I'm voting to protect my financial interests, but it's not that I'm racist or that I, you know, right. All of these things that you write and how you doing things, how you do everything. So if you're willing to say I can handle a rapist in my, you know, leading my country, if it protects my
Taina Brown she/hers (11:33.968)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:50.034)
Or that I want a rapist in office, but you voted him in.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:02.702)
money, really means I can handle a rapist if it means my black friend loses her job because we saw a record number of black women losing jobs this year, to no surprise.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:09.616)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also, let's just stop that I can handle a rapist. Like, you can handle a rapist doing what exactly? Like, what do you want a rapist to be doing?
Becky Mollenkamp (12:17.058)
Well, exactly.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:22.741)
Yeah!
rotting in prison.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:27.478)
not leading the country, like, right. It just, it blows my mind. just like some, like I think some of it is like woeful ignorance, right? Like people are just like, I just don't want to think about it. Like I don't want to have to deal with it. And I get that, you know, that for some time, that sometimes it's like, I just have so much going on. I'm so stressed out. Like the world is a shit show. Like I just don't have the bandwidth. I totally understand that feeling.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:29.238)
Well, at minimum, not leading the country, right? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:41.016)
That's really it.
Becky Mollenkamp (12:54.488)
In the same way that you, you know, I don't want to have to get engaged in this fight at the family gathering, right? Like there are times where we choose particular battles. So yes, I get that.
Taina Brown she/hers (12:59.746)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think also having the option to not choose that is sometimes a privilege. so sometimes it's not, but sometimes it is, right? And so you have to weigh, we have to weigh, like, okay, am I choosing not to engage in this right now because it's...
It's just gonna make me uncomfortable and I just don't want to be uncomfortable and I want to like keep the peace and like not rock the boat or am I choosing not to engage this right now because I quite literally just cannot, right? Like it's too triggering so it's gonna like escalate into something that's unhealthy or intoxic or is it... or are you just like at the end of your rope and just you know really really don't have the emotional or mental bandwidth, right?
Is it not the right time? Is it not the right context? And so there's so many layers to understanding that.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:55.948)
this is the problem for white women because we don't truly understand the difference. We have been so conditioned to believe that our discomfort actually is like being triggered or our discomfort actually is overwhelm, exhaustion, burnout, or that our discomfort is a lack of safety. There are times where that may be true, right? There are absolutely times for white women when we are unsafe.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:02.926)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:09.563)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:23.038)
And right, like that is absolutely true, especially as we're sitting here talking about rapists, right? Our physical, emotional, mental, like there can be actual true harm caused to us by engaging in certain situations. However, most of white women that I've experienced and myself included before I had done a lot of work and still probably sometimes really don't understand how to parse that out and understand, is this actually a safety issue or is this just, I don't want to be uncomfortable.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:34.385)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:51.406)
because I've been so conditioned to not be able to sit in discomfort that it actually feels unsafe. But that isn't truth here. Like, I can separate the truth. The truth is I could sit in this discomfort and still be safe. My safety, my privilege remains intact. And that's hard because for many white women, they really believe, no, I can't engage in that conversation because it's not safe for me to do so. But what does that actually mean? What is that safety you're claiming? And that's...
Taina Brown she/hers (15:05.604)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:13.508)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:18.626)
So it's tough because a white woman will say, well, I'm not safe. Because leaning again on that marginalized identity of womanhood without being able to fully understand and recognize the great safety that comes with being white, right? Yeah. So that's hard. It's hard.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:24.516)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:31.55)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it is, it is. And I think part of that is like being unfamiliar with that feeling of discomfort, right? Because so much of white culture, white American, at least Western culture is about being nice, right? Like, yeah, being nice, protecting white women, not rocking the boat, not like being non-confrontational, you know.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:48.812)
and protecting white women.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:57.539)
almost to the point of being passive aggressive sometimes. so, and when you're used to just like living in that kind of environment where you just like don't want to outright disagree or cause any like rifts or have any like direct confrontation, that feeling of having like of disagreement, it feels like a direct confrontation, right? And I can speak to this, right? Because like,
Becky Mollenkamp (16:21.688)
Yeah. Exactly.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:26.19)
I'm not a white woman, obviously, but my mom, like I grew up in, not just my mom, but like my family in general, like I grew up in an environment where it was like, you didn't disagree with adults. Like adults were always right.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:41.0)
I think a lot of people understand that.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:43.117)
A lot of people can relate to this. like, and so, and then, and then I grew up in that environment. Then I was embedded in a religious church culture where it was the same. You don't disagree with authority. Like you like blindly follow authority. And it wasn't literally until my mid twenties that I started to like learn how to disagree in a healthy way and like use my voice. Cause I remember I would, I have
Becky Mollenkamp (16:59.278)
Whoa.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:12.331)
memories of just like being at work and people asking my opinion and I would have no opinion. Like I couldn't even vocalize or formulate an opinion because I was so used to just agreeing with what everyone else said, just being the agreeable person in the room. And so, yeah. And so anytime I was in a conversation and someone was genuinely asking what I thought or whether I agreed or not, like it did feel...
Becky Mollenkamp (17:26.67)
following along. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (17:38.22)
somewhat unsafe just because I wasn't used to it. I wasn't used to people treating me that way. And so, but it only felt unsafe because it was unfamiliar, right? Not because I was literally unsafe. And so, yeah, there might be some level of nervous system dysregulation that happens when you're faced with something unfamiliar. But I think there's a, like,
Taina Brown she/hers (18:07.088)
We have the cognition to be able to understand, right? Yes, yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:11.106)
if we do that work. Right, again, so for white women, is it safe? Would there be a cost potentially? Right. And sometimes we equate that with women is not safe. But is the cost can you pay the cost and still be safe? And I know for many white women, think no. But the truth is, maybe you can. You're just so not used to not having to pay a cost.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:22.851)
Yeah, that's the question.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:29.379)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:35.575)
You can!
Taina Brown she/hers (18:39.235)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (18:40.268)
Right? Meaning losing some piece of privilege being taken from you. Right? Or you ceding some piece of privilege. And that's really hard when you're not used to that. That's like, I don't know what that looks like. And what you're talking about, I think of as like good girl syndrome. And I think so many of us, we are very indoctrinated into good girl syndrome. Schools, I just read Original Sins by Eve Ewing over the break as well. It was fantastic. Totally recommend it. Five out of five. Five star.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:44.526)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:47.855)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:51.3)
yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:56.738)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:08.898)
whatever book about the history, the racist history of education in America. schools are just another example, religion, family, and school is another huge bucket, particularly public schools, but really all school systems, other than some of the more Montessori, there are some school systems out there that are not necessarily about creating good quote unquote citizens. But most schooling is about that same thing. It's about learning how to
Taina Brown she/hers (19:19.556)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:28.752)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:33.144)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:36.46)
not question authority, right? All of those things. So we get it everywhere. So of course, it's hard to unlearn. And I continue to make mistakes. We will all continue to make mistakes. There are times where I wrongly assess safety versus discomfort and all of these things. And yet, it's still incumbent upon me. It's my responsibility to continue to learn and to get more honest about, is there really a safety cost here? Or is it I'm actually just being at
Taina Brown she/hers (19:36.621)
assimilate. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:05.42)
I mean, being asked in this moment to cede some privilege, to, you know, to pay a cost that I'm not familiar with or that feels uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean it's not safe. And those are hard things to navigate, but it doesn't mean you get to opt out. Well, you can, but then how you do anything is how you do everything, right? If you're willing to opt out here, then you're just as willing to vote for a rapist to be president.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:09.005)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:20.524)
Right, right.
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (20:28.448)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they're hard to navigate, but they're not, it's not impossible to navigate. It's a skill that you learn, that you like teach yourself, right? Like anything else, like it's not necessarily something that is innate to us, I don't think, but like anything else, it's an interpersonal skill that is necessary. so whether it's, again, work, interpersonal relationships, politics, whatever. And so this whole like,
Becky Mollenkamp (20:34.317)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (20:38.094)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:00.79)
the Venezuela thing, like, which on its own is like super complicated, right? Because obviously this person was a dictator. And so it's like, yeah, obviously nobody wants a dictator ruling over other people. right.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:11.95)
Exactly. Which is what they're relying on too. Because then they can say, oh, so then you, and this is how when we don't have nuance and we can't say both and, it gets boiled down. And especially when you feel unfamiliar with the situation, right? It's a lot like what with Israel and Gaza and how people will say, well then making it as simple as, then you are an anti-Semite, right? And then if you're not familiar enough, it can be really uncomfortable. Because it's like, well, no, I'm not that.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:22.135)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:26.67)
with.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:34.688)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (21:39.206)
And I still see that this is really problematic. if I don't feel like I know enough, it's hard to sometimes engage. And here's the same thing of saying, so you think there should be a dictator. Well, no. And I don't think that we should be in the business of nation building, empire building.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:41.846)
yeah. yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:50.637)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:58.635)
kidnapping foreign political leaders, regardless of how they got there.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:02.966)
Right, destroying determination is like the determinism of the... Exactly. So I can both celebrate the fact that there's not a dictator and recognize all of these other things. And by the way, we are moving ever so close and really, for all intents and purposes are there of having a dictator ourselves. So having one dictator remove another, is that a celebration?
Taina Brown she/hers (22:06.217)
of their of those people yeah like let
Taina Brown she/hers (22:14.54)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:23.301)
for sure.
It is that, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:29.218)
I'm not sure I see how that is like I'm supposed to, yeah. But it is challenging because with anything there's nuance, there's decades, centuries of history and we can't, I just, I do get sometimes a little frustrated with like online discourse where it's like, don't speak unless you are an expert on the subject. The number of people who could.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:31.991)
That's the pop calling the kettle black.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:50.208)
yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:52.536)
be experts on every region of the, like, no, not every people would be experts on one region, let alone every region. And there was a lot of pushback from people who are Venezuelan saying, hey, Americans don't speak on this topic. And I saw a lot of really great women I respect, by the way, largely black women, what a shock, who were very well versed in saying the piece around like, no, because this is my country too.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:53.014)
Be experts.
Yeah, it's very, very small.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:20.778)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:22.466)
And I get to have a say in what my country does. It doesn't mean I have to understand everything about what's happening in Venezuela or the history of Venezuela, but I can certainly speak to whether or not my president is honoring my constitution, whether or not my president is committing war crimes, whether or not my president is behaving in the way that represents the people he represents. These are things that we can speak to. So if people push back on you,
Taina Brown she/hers (23:25.218)
My country is doing, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:35.255)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:42.178)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:47.534)
It's one thing to start to talk about, speak for Venezuelans. That's very different though than to speak for Americans in this situation, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:50.835)
Yeah, yeah, that's problematic. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think sometimes people don't understand that boundary, right? Because again, it goes back to that thinking of it's all or nothing instead of like, there's this like liminal space in between that you can exist in where, yes, you can talk about what's happening without having to politically or ideologically
Becky Mollenkamp (23:59.66)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:06.638)
Exactly.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:18.701)
commit your own kind of like land grab, right? And try to like present yourself as an authority figure on Venezuelan geopolitics or speak for the people and be like, they're liberated. No, they're not. They're still not fucking liberated. Like, because.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:33.9)
And by the way, as with anything, Venezuelans are not a monolith. Venezuela is a very large country. It's about, I mean, it's a 10th of the size of the US, but that's not a small country. It's 30 million people we're talking about. 30 million people with different experiences and ideas. many folks who are now in America who are Venezuelan, because they've had a very large refugee situation happening over years now under Maduro, they have one perspective.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:37.866)
Right! Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:44.234)
yeah. yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:00.44)
But there people who are no longer existing inside of Venezuela, right? And that doesn't take away the fact that they're Venezuelan and very much affected. However, they have a different perspective than people who have continued to live in this really, these very challenging circumstances inside that country. And even within that, there are people who support Chavez, Chavistas, and then there's people who don't. There's people who liked Maduro, people who didn't, people who remember times before dictatorship, people who don't.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:00.49)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:12.747)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:20.341)
Yeah.
yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:26.946)
There is no singular opinion on what's happening even amongst Venezuelans. So to try and reduce it to, well, you're not Venezuelan, so you can't have an opinion. One, you can still have an opinion on the overall situation, and particularly as an American that's very involved in the situation. But then also, even Venezuelans don't have a singular opinion. Right? Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:30.121)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:41.897)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (25:47.499)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it reminds me of like how people sometimes talk about Cuba and Fidel.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:55.416)
Hmm. Well, and we may be talking about that soon too, since we're apparently going to be taking it as well. It's on his, on his list. got Cuba coming. We got Mexico, Greenland. So yeah, we, the shopping is apparently his shopping list. Like most of us have eggs, milk, bread. His is Cuba, Greenland, Mexico, Canada. So yeah, but anyway, yes, about Cuba.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:06.699)
my god.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:11.956)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, how people talk about Cuba and Fidel and like, it's, they approach it as such a black and white issue when it's, yeah, completely oversimplified and it's anything but. Also how people used to talk about Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and it's like, well,
Becky Mollenkamp (26:26.486)
oversimplify it.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:41.545)
He was placed there by the United States.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:45.292)
And guess what's happening with Venezuela. If you do even minimal amounts of research, you will understand America's longstanding involvement in politics in Venezuela and the mirror images of what's happening with Venezuela and what happened with Iraq and Iran and that area of the world. It's all there. it's our meddling, our getting involved, trying to achieve our ends. And by the way, this is not just Republicans. Obama was very much involved in all of this as well.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:54.761)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:06.111)
the same, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:14.197)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's the nature of our politics, of our political system, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:14.966)
He had his hands in Venezuela. this is exactly like, and again, that's why I'm saying like colonial, this, this idea of colonizing is, it is what America was literally founded on. We are a colonized nation and we have continued to repeat that pattern throughout our existence. It's nothing different except again, with just that the only difference now with Trump really is how brazen and blatant it is where in the past we did try to at least
Taina Brown she/hers (27:25.896)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It just looks different than it used to because.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:43.822)
Wrap it up in a pretty bow. That made us more palatable to the world. Now we are less palatable to the world and it is because, I mean...
Taina Brown she/hers (27:45.983)
Yeah.
yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:53.67)
Emma, that might be a good thing.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:56.59)
You know what, Taina? Yes, I'm scared. I'm terrified. I, you know, especially having a son who, I mean, we're still a decade away from him being able to be conscripted into the military. However, that's not that far. And I think that's about the trajectory we're looking at here of this thing potentially and maybe less of a truly a very terrifying World War situation with us as the bad guys, which is a place that we have not thought of ourselves of having been.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:59.988)
Of course.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:08.372)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:22.506)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:26.044)
Yeah. We've been to that, guys. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:26.38)
We've been the bad guys in many ways, but I saw somebody on social media post that like World War II gave America a real inflated sense of itself as the hero, which is so true because in truth, Hitler learned his ways from America. So if you learn much about Hitler, like we are sort of the we're responsible. We are the inspiration for the monster. Right. So it's like we created the monster and then we went in and killed the monster. And now we want that. We only want.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:40.807)
yeah. yeah.
We're the inspiration. We're the source material. Hitler was the fanfic.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:53.004)
the memory to be about the fact that we killed the monster, not that we created it in the first place, right? So it did create, like, I think Americans do have this false sense of ourselves as like the saviors, the good guys, the nice exactly. This is not that like we are siding with China and Russia and saying, hey, let's the evil three divide up the world. And these are our countries. And it's scary because Europe is scared.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:03.549)
That manifest destiny kind of narrative, yeah.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:19.082)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:19.234)
The amount of Europeans I'm seeing, like just everyday Europeans on social media, terrified with America, terrified of America, angry with Americans. I mean, this is a very quick turnaround from true allyship, right? And this like, we're all in this together sort of feeling. And they're gonna, I mean, this is gonna start more nuclear proliferation, not an easy word, right? Because now countries that have felt like they could rely on America to,
Taina Brown she/hers (29:28.064)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:33.331)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:43.092)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:48.746)
shield them are now feeling like we have to catch up so that we can shield ourselves from America. And that is scary. And as somebody who a child who could end up being pulled into military conflicts, scares the fuck out of me. All that to say, and, Diana, I also do, there's this big part of me that thinks this is kind of where we have to go. America is, think, having its last gasps. As the US, someone got angry with me on social media saying America and calling myself an American.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:53.628)
Yeah, that's great.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:01.598)
Thank
Taina Brown she/hers (30:07.69)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:18.764)
because America is a large chunk of land that includes. And there's South America who are also Americans, but they're South Americans. And I'm a North American, I was like, I don't want to call myself, we don't call ourselves United Stasiens, but like, okay. So it's a little complicated. Like I can see the challenge there, but also I'm like, literally I've never heard anyone call themselves anything but an American if they're from the US. I don't, but anyway. yeah, like I'm scared, but I also think.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:22.811)
North American, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:33.054)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:42.76)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:48.31)
this is sort of the inevitable end to an experiment like the US. It's pounding in the trajectory and of capitalism and everything else. When you have to consume to survive, And there's no end to the consumption. At some point, you run out of things to consume or at least resources that won't fight back.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:04.327)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:09.218)
Resources, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:13.612)
Right? So you can consume resources like the mushroom that can't say anything. But at some point when you've run out of mushrooms, you got to go fight the bull and the bull is going to fight back. And I feel like that's kind of where we're at. And that's real scary. But also potentially, like you said, maybe it's maybe it's what needs to happen. Maybe it's not such a horrible thing, even though there's going to be incredible damage in the way.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:13.736)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:34.472)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's a horrible thing and it's also not a horrible thing at the same time. it's because it's so blatant and so brazen, like it's a tipping point for other countries, other political leaders to.
make a decision on how they're going to confront this, whether they choose to or not. And so before, it could be masked behind democracy and allyship and things like that. And so there was an easy way to just sweep things under the rug, but now there is no easy way to sweep things under the rug. And so I think what we really need to be paying attention to is how other world leaders respond.
to what's happening here because that will indicate where the world is headed as a whole, right?
Becky Mollenkamp (32:35.32)
Well, mean, the Netherlands have pulled out of the World Cup because they're going to be held here. And that's huge because Netherlands is a country that actually performs exceptionally well in the World Cup. So it's not like a small nation that was like, never had a chance anyway. That was big news. And there's a lot of other countries considering the same thing, Olympics as well, because this happens to be a year where the US is either entirely or partially hosting both of these giant events on the world stage. Very interesting time.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:45.51)
yeah. yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:52.304)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:01.416)
Hmm. Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:04.206)
And so that's happened. then obviously Greenland, is a Denmark, a former colony, still colony. I don't know. That's still unclear to me. It's, it's all.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:09.864)
Colony of Denmark, yeah.
It's legally, I think it's a former colony, but it's ruled. Like it's still under.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:18.378)
Yeah, right. They have their own representational government in Greenland. I mean, it's such a small country. The landmass is not, the amount of people there is exceptionally small. Yeah, it's like smaller than it's smaller than most American towns even forget about cities. But anyway, I think they do have their own representational government, but they are still associated with Denmark because it used to be a true colony and now is still in some way associated. But anyway, the president prime minister of Denmark, she's come out
Taina Brown she/hers (33:26.734)
Yeah, well it's because it's mostly undeveloped, but they still answer to Denmark. Yeah.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:47.18)
very, very clearly say you will not ever take Greenland. You think you will, but you're not going to. And everyone in the EU and the UN will be supporting us in this. so there's already, like, there's been some very clear pushback, not to mention China, which is a different type of world leader, but has also said, don't, if you mess with us, basically, if you mess with the bull, you're to get the horns. Like, if you mess with us,
Taina Brown she/hers (34:00.347)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:14.983)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:16.628)
you we will annihilate the entire world. have weapons that can we are the only country that has a hydrogen bomb. think it was whatever that can take out the entire world and play with us. Right. That kind of language from China, but also from Denmark, like it's it's scary and it's making it clear that the world is saying, well, well, the Trump administration may try to make Venezuela and what happened seem like no big deal. Like it was because what they're framing it as is
Taina Brown she/hers (34:19.687)
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:26.423)
Okay. Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:34.074)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:45.934)
This was a police operation. It was just an arrest. We've arrested a really bad guy. Nobody likes him anyway. We're going to try him and like, that was all it was despite the president then saying, no boots on the ground. I run the country now. Right. Like, so there's mixed messages, but the people with sane minds are trying to frame it as just like a police, like a military backed police operation, law enforcement sort of thing. The world is not seeing it that
Taina Brown she/hers (34:59.12)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:08.551)
Well, it's not because it's happened in another country. If it happened in, like, if it happened here in this United States, they might be able to get away with saying, it's just a police, like, issue. We just arrested someone.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:11.884)
Because it's not!
Becky Mollenkamp (35:19.276)
Ooh.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:25.408)
Maybe, except did you see the amount of artillery that they went in with? If they did that in any US city to arrest somebody, would be... There would be people on the streets, and there are people on the streets protesting what happened a minute ago, to be clear. Like, even though the media does not cover it well, it is happening. But yeah, they would be fighting it. But I do think it's interesting, because you just brought up a point I wanted to make sure we talked about quickly too, because I learned something, and I want to be clear about that here too, right? Because there are still these moments where I continue to learn.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:36.529)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:53.066)
One of the immediate aftermaths this on social media was people posting from other countries saying, well, if Sweden, if Denmark, if whoever, like all over the world, started, people were posting this. If we came in and took your president and first lady under cover of night as a military operation, what would you do? And everyone's responses, including mine, were like, please do it, sounds great, right? And seeing it as a joke.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:15.78)
Please do!
Hypothetically speaking, if you were to do that.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:21.368)
The thing is the joke that it was, I think, intended to be and playful. However, I did see some indigenous folks who piped in to say, I know that you all are joking, but colonization is not really a joke to us, right? And so could you stop with the jokes around like, like, haha, colonization, isn't it funny? And the way with because a lot of them too were like pictures of the US with a different country's flag over it. Like if we came in and took your country. And of course, I'm like, Denmark?
Taina Brown she/hers (36:40.42)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:45.926)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:49.314)
where you guys have 52 weeks of parental leave and universal health care. Yeah, come take our country. But I did, because I participated in some of that until I saw some indigenous voices speaking up today. Let's not, even though I understand what this is, let's not make colonization a joke because it's not. It's had extreme real world consequences in our lives. And I think it could be easy to say, whatever.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:00.503)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:06.435)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:11.619)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:18.39)
lighten up, whatever, you know, that kind of like defensiveness, again, going back to that discomfort, because I did feel uncomfortable when I was like, shit, I participated in that. And like, I can feel, when I feel that discomfort of being kind of called in, it's like, can get, yeah, immediate, where I want to be like, my God, it was a joke, whatever. But then it's like, no, listen, stop, take a breath. Listen, what can I learn here? And I deleted a couple of posts, not because I was trying to hide the evidence, but more like I don't want this out there. And they were just reposts and things like that, right?
Taina Brown she/hers (37:19.973)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:30.211)
You get defensive. Yeah. It's easy.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:38.275)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:47.717)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:48.178)
and since then, I'm not participating in those kinds of things because I, I've learned. did participate in it. I've discovered it was wrong. didn't recognize how it was wrong until I had done it. And now like, I won't do that anymore. So I just want to share that too, as like a place of that messiness of like, we're all, we still make mistakes.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:54.319)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:04.921)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're still making mistakes, still learning. Still learning.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:10.476)
Yeah, because in my mind it was like, I'm sitting here thinking, yes, please, Denmark. I would love to be like, I'm sitting here, honestly, I spend an inordinate amount of time right now thinking, how can I get another passport? And I don't have a way of I just there's no easy way to do that. The people who say just leave then it's like, fuck off. I would love to tell me how that doesn't involve being ripped. Exactly, if you're rich, great. And I see the I see a lot of people with means who are doing it.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:23.62)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:31.35)
It's hard. It's hard and it's expensive.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:39.062)
That doesn't work for my family. So tell me another option. We did find out our great, my husband's great grandmother is Irish. Sadly, only grandmother counts to get. So we're like, damn, trying to get, find a way. But yeah, and so, literally you can be grandmothered. If you have a grandparent, a grandparented in to Irish ancestry and you can get a pass, like it's amazing. I love that they're doing that. And I just saw, by the way, just since we're talking about Ireland, last year was the first year they had no gun homicides.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:41.827)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:48.726)
You can't be grandmothered in.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:08.726)
in the entire country, not a single gun on my side. So would I like to move there? Yeah, that'd be great. Would I like them to colonize us? In theory, yes. Having been educated, however, it isn't something to make light of. Because in the same way, really, it makes us know better than Trump, who keeps posting all of these images of Greenland with the US flag on it. So yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:10.22)
Mm. Well. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:26.7)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just perpetuating that idea, that mindset of just like, somebody else come take over. so.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:33.326)
Right, when the truth is we have to fight against what against colonization. mean, you the indigenous folks were talking about land back and like this isn't about who gets to take it next. Right. The real answer is how do we give back? And going back to that idea of privilege and the cost, it's like, can we pay a cost? And I do feel like as much again, as much as it's scary about what's happening, this does feel like a cost.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:43.64)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:50.297)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:53.986)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:03.442)
And there will be real safety prices, but it does feel like a cost that we do need to pay. So, yeah, it is scary.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:05.856)
yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:10.372)
Yeah, yeah. So much so.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:16.162)
Well, welcome to the new year. So right. So much for twenty twenty six being way better than twenty twenty five. It's not feeling that way when the like literally the new year started off this way. I was like, what a way to start the year. Could you not wait in a little while to bring this? Yeah. But here we are. And it's only going to get more heated, I think, as like seriously on the to do list is.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:18.948)
Happy 2026, bitches.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:37.356)
Here we are.
Becky Mollenkamp (40:44.27)
Cuba, Mexico, Canada, Greenland. These are not small, nothing. There's going to be, do I think they will happen? No, but I don't think it's without consequences that he would cry. I think Cuba is the most likely of those on that list. But none of it's going to happen without consequence. know, Shine Bomb from Mexico has already also been very clear about like, no, you don't get to just come take our. Right.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:47.588)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:06.5)
Yeah, I'm back to fuck off. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:09.15)
So, it'll be scary. But I will say next week, we already talked about what we're gonna talk about next week, so we'll share that, so that if you're like, this was so depressing, maybe you'll come back. Well, maybe, but at least it won't be, well, I mean, okay, I shouldn't say that either. It won't be geopolitical, how about that? So much. We're gonna talk about sinners and one battle after another, because I have finally seen them. You saw them both, I think, when they were in the theaters. I've watched them now that they're both, think, on HBO or wherever they're available online.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:17.956)
Next week will be a bit lighter, maybe.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:23.596)
Everything's political. Yes, yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:38.296)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:38.868)
I've now caught up with you and it's award season. So it feels like a really good time to talk about those films because both are big time award contenders. The Critics of Choice Awards just happened. So we could talk when this, when we get to that. But my sneak peek will be, I think centers is going to continue to be robbed because people like white people telling black people's stories. Do you have a takeaway before we, that's gonna be, that's my little teaser.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:43.415)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:01.981)
Mm-hmm. No, I agree. I agree. And I have controversial, I don't say controversial, but maybe disagreeable opinions about one battle after another.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:17.806)
I am so excited to have that conversation. I've been dying since I saw it, I texted you, I finally saw it, I can't wait to talk. So I'm definitely interested to talk. So we'll be talking about that next week and everyone have a wonderful, well, let's just all try to survive. Yeah, let's survive 2026 together.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:22.083)
Thank
Taina Brown she/hers (42:30.989)
Happy New Year. Surviving community.