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Pastor Matt Brown, Justin Pardee and Stephanie Keen dive into Luke 21 and Jesus’ warnings about the end of the world. Other awesome topics include: the destruction of Jerusalem, the Abomination of Desolation, what real persecution looks like and Jesus’ favorite camping spot.
Real faith. Real life. Hosted by Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown of Sandals Church, The Debrief Podcast goes beyond Sunday conversations—diving into the questions, stories, and struggles that shape who we are. Thoughtful. Honest. Unfiltered.
He could do the splits.
Justin Pardee:I I've seen him have you seen him do the splits on that van on the Volvo
Matt Brown:Yeah. Trucks? Okay. He does training in one of his things where his sensei pulls his legs apart and he has to like just sit there like this.
Justin Pardee:Wait. How how does he pull his
Matt Brown:Literally with ropes.
Justin Pardee:Ropes on his legs?
Matt Brown:Mhmm.
Justin Pardee:What's he
Matt Brown:Balancing on his booty in the air floating.
Justin Pardee:That sounds like magic. Is this some glorified body stuff that you're talking about? Hey, everybody and welcome to the Debrief, a weekly q and a podcast from your friends here at Sandals Church. I'm Justin Party and I'll be your kindness ambassador today.
Stephanie Schaefer:I am Stephanie Keene and I will be the recipient of kindness instead of banter today.
Matt Brown:Yeah. I'm PMB and I'll be working on kindness.
Justin Pardee:I was gonna say something about your lips are smooth as honey, but that sounded weird. I was just trying trying to quote Proverbs 31.
Stephanie Schaefer:Yeah. You can't say that about Please
Matt Brown:don't look at my lips and think of honey.
Justin Pardee:It didn't came to me. Well, good news guys. I am back on the show this week even though I threatened to not appear this week because we got so many reviews in the iTunes store last week. So, everyone just want to say thank you to meeting my emotional needs and my looking to external measures for finding my self worth. I really appreciate everything you guys did.
Justin Pardee:Although, even though we got one great review from this guy Calm twenty four who said it feels just like sitting with friends talking about God, which is great.
Stephanie Schaefer:That's so nice.
Justin Pardee:Then here here's the other deal. We did get our first four star review.
Matt Brown:Yes. And I apologize for that.
Justin Pardee:I do feel like I brought it on on us. The four star review came from Ragamuffin Soul. Whitaker. Himself. Himself.
Justin Pardee:He titled it a four star review for a five car for a five star podcast. Although, I gotta be I need to get on a five car podcast. How awesome would that be? The three of us, Sean Pod Van Dam, five cars, all recording. He said, I wanted to rate this five stars because Justin told us he wanted a four star just following instructions, the best podcast ever.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm. I should know the best podcast ever is in all caps. It is. It really matters. I want our listeners to know that.
Justin Pardee:I didn't say that I I I wanted a four star. I said I would accept a four star.
Stephanie Schaefer:Alright. If that's the case But by you saying that you were implying that you wanted it. Like you you've been tempting people with this for a long time. We brought it on ourselves.
Justin Pardee:Also, have great follow-up news from Emily with the llama. If you guys are following her, she keeps dropping more awesome debrief llama photos on her Instagram.
Matt Brown:Llamas are scary.
Justin Pardee:So great. So follow us over on Facebook. Look us up for the debrief podcast and you will see more awesome debrief llama action over there. And if you have not yet picked up one of your debrief t shirts, we would super appreciate it. We're just hopefully a couple more shirts away from being able to buy that.
Stephanie Schaefer:Yeah. Because otherwise, we're not start selling debrief llamas and that gets
Justin Pardee:really tricky. Well, we there's this one little gadget we need so we can get you guys better audio on Facebook live. We're we're like a dozen shirts away. So make it happen people. Alright.
Justin Pardee:Hey, we got some follow-up from last week's episode. This one comes from Lucy. You ready to jump in with some some questions? Yeah. Alright.
Justin Pardee:Let's do this. She said, and we talked about this a little bit with marriage, but she asked us based on Luke 20, will we know our loved ones in heaven? And if so, what's the biblical evidence, bro?
Matt Brown:Yeah. Well, the only biblical evidence we have for any kind of knowledge post resurrection is Jesus. And so this is what I would say, the disciples knew him. They knew him, and there were things about him that represented his life, particularly the holes in his hands and and the piercing in his side. And so they knew him intimately.
Matt Brown:What's amazing about it is as they recognize him, right, it's the way he talk, it's the way he prays, it's the way he bless the food. And so interacting with him, they know him. And so absolutely, we're gonna know the people that we love who are saved. The people that we know and love that are not saved, you know, they're not gonna be there. And so that's the reality.
Matt Brown:And that's a difficult aspect of loving people who choose to not believe in Christ, and those of us who choose to believe in Christ. And so the people that we know and love who've given themselves to Jesus Christ will be there with us forever, and we'll be with them. And it's gonna be awesome.
Justin Pardee:Man, I really love the conversation that we had about that in last week's episode. Lucy, if you have not listened to all of last week's podcast, go back and listen to it. It was seriously so good. Well, hey, we got a ton of good stuff from Luke chapter 21. You only covered like four verses in your sermon, so you left the the field and range wide open for us.
Justin Pardee:But before we get into all the Jesus foretelling the future, I wanna ask you this question from the very beginning with the story of the widow's offering. Verses three through four says, I tell you the truth Jesus said, this poor widow has given more than all the rest of them for they have given a tiny part of the surplus but she as poor as she is has given everything she has. So my question is, man, was this lady as poor as she was giving everything she has being a little bit reckless with her generosity?
Matt Brown:Yeah. The answer is yes and no. So, yes, she was being reckless because she gave everything she had, but the reality is no, she wasn't being reckless because she had nothing. And so, so it's a tricky way of answering that question, but Okay. The reality is when you're broke, you're broke, right?
Matt Brown:You got nothing. And so what's 2 pennies what difference is 2¢ gonna make if you don't have anything? I think what Jesus is pointing out here is this woman is laying it all on the line, and she's trusting everything in God, and Jesus recognized that and sees that, and actually calls attention to her. And so I'm gonna guess, and we don't know that there were probably some wealthy people there who did love God, who helped her out, and probably overwhelmingly blessed her. And I think the attitude, you know, the attitude that Jesus is is pointing us to, is not trusting in the money that you have, but trusting in Him ultimately.
Matt Brown:And she is the prime example of that. And so a lot of times we feel good about the little bits that we give, but the reality is God wants all of us. And so, you know, there are times when people give offerings to the church. You know, I think about, you know, one of our high school students that got some money for college that was given to him and gave literally, you know, about $1,500 to the church, and his parents were not cool with that. And as a church, we gave the money back because it's not about, you know, the money, it's about people.
Matt Brown:And so we helped him walk through that process of what it means to, you know, be submissive to your parents, especially when they don't go to church, and yet love Jesus and wanna be generous. And so we helped him through that process. And so I think there are some times when maybe we give too much. And so the Bible is very clear, never give so that you're in a position of need. And so that's what the Bible says, that God would never ask you to put yourself in a position where then you need the generosity of others.
Matt Brown:And so you have to balance that out. You know, don't put yourself in the poorhouse, because then, okay, you gave all your money to God, and now the church has to come alongside and help you. And so you need to you need to be able to figure that out. What is the maximum amount I can give and still be a contributor to the church and not dependent upon the church? Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So
Stephanie Schaefer:So now we're gonna move into just the rest of this chapter pretty much. It's Jesus foretelling the future, starting to talk about what's gonna happen as the end comes. In verses yes. The year 2000. So in verses five through seven, people were talking about the temple, but Jesus said, this the time is coming when all these things will be completely demolished.
Stephanie Schaefer:Not one stone will be left on top of another. They asked, when will all this happen? What sign will show us that these things are about to take place? What's the importance of Jesus mentioning that the temple will be demolished?
Matt Brown:Well, he's predicting he's predicting the future. And so, you know, at the time, the temple was one of the, you know, the ancient wonders of the world. It's the most magnificent thing, a prophet, a historian by the name of Josephus said, it was the most beautiful structure in all of Rome. So think about that. I mean, think about, you know, the Colosseum, the temples, you know, the Parthenon, all of these things that we think about were so amazing.
Matt Brown:I mean, literally he said it looked like, Jerusalem looked like a snow capped mountain. It was one of the most incredible things. And so people were infatuated with his beauty, And it took literally almost a hundred years to build. I mean, it's the most majestic thing that the Jews ever had seen, and they couldn't believe that there was any way that you could tear it down, because it was so massive. I mean, it was absolutely massive.
Matt Brown:But the reality is, it was going to fall, it was gonna crumble, because of the rejection of Jesus Christ. So Jesus was rejected in Jerusalem, and so he says that there's going to be judgment that falls upon them. And so ultimately that came, you know, about twenty seven, thirty years after his death. Jerusalem is surrounded and destroyed by Emperor Vespian and Emperor Titus. They they both kind of partner together in the war, but they absolutely utterly obliterate Jerusalem.
Justin Pardee:Okay. So they everybody that's there asked Jesus, when's this going to happen? When when when are these things going to take place? And in verses eight and nine, Jesus replies, don't let anyone mislead you for many will come in my name claiming I am the Messiah and saying the time has come but don't believe them. So, as we're going to continue on here through chapter talking about end times, the future, should we even be having this conversation?
Justin Pardee:Are you going to mislead us right now with the questions?
Matt Brown:Well, this is what I would say is, I think it's important as Christians. I think if if a pastor or a theologian is honest, it's it's okay to speculate and hypothesize about the end times. Whenever a person says, this is it, and so they move from like a general understanding and awareness of, hey, this could be it to this is it, this is going to happen, then they're in trouble. And so we always have to be very very careful of these pastors or theologians or Bible experts or prophets who say they've got it all figured out, because the second they say that they're wrong. And so, no, I mean, I'm not going to tell you definitively Jesus Christ is returning on Tuesday at 08:30, you know, in the morning.
Matt Brown:I'm not going to say that. What Jesus is saying is, hey, here's some things to look for that are going to help you to understand that I am returning. And so I would say this throughout our talk today, that the point of what Jesus is saying is, is don't be distracted by your present world, and and realize something is moving outside and beyond you. And it's easy to get so distracted with our little life that we miss out on what God is doing. And so don't be the person in the end who completely missed out on the movement of God.
Matt Brown:Just like, remember at the birth of Jesus, it's the wise men from the East that read the signs in the sky. They see, they say, we saw his star, and we have come from the East. So it's pagans that that that that predict and see the coming of Jesus when the religious people to which he came completely missed it. And so we gotta make sure that we're not religious people that completely miss the signs of the second coming of Christ. And so we'll talk about that just as there was a celestial movement at the coming of Christ, Luke tells us there will be a celestial movement at the return of Christ.
Matt Brown:So something beyond just our little world here is going to happen to let us know that he's coming.
Stephanie Schaefer:Okay. So Jesus then kind of starts talking about some of those things that are happening and coming. He says, nation will go to war against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, and there will be famines and plagues in many lands, and there will be terrifying things and great miraculous signs from heaven. I like those signs we're just talking about.
Stephanie Schaefer:But what I'm curious about is, like, those things are happening now. There have been wars forever. We live in Southern California. Earthquakes are reality for us. There are famines.
Stephanie Schaefer:Hasn't that not always been the case? Like, are the times that Jesus is talking about there, what's happening now?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So so let me say this. So the Gospel of Luke, when he writes, he says to Theophilus, I'm writing so that you can have a different account. Right. He says that people have already undertaken the job of writing a gospel of count.
Matt Brown:So the gospel of Mark probably exists, and the gospel of Matthew probably exists. And so when you read the end times of Matthew and Mark, when they talk about, you know, the abomination of desolation, all these things happening, a lot of people married the destruction of Israel with the second coming of Christ. And so there was this disillusionment, and and and this lack of understanding is, okay, why didn't Christ return? Because Jerusalem, you know, was torn down and it was destroyed. And so what Luke is going to do for us is he's going to help teach the church in Rome and throughout the Gentile empire that no no no, you know, Matthew and Mark was great, but let me give you some more clear understanding on what he was teaching.
Matt Brown:And so Jesus is going to separate the destruction of Jerusalem from the end, and he's going to divide those two stories, where in Mark and Luke, they seem to be married and completely connected. And so the problem is the Gentile reader who's reading this knows that Vespi and Titus destroyed Jerusalem, been completely destroyed. And so then why hasn't Christ returned? And so he's trying to let us know that those two things are separate. And that wars and rumors of wars is something that we're always going to have, and these are signs that the end is coming, but it's not ultimately it doesn't mean that it's gonna happen now.
Matt Brown:There's still other things that need to happen. So I I don't know. This is a little confusing, but you just have to understand for Luke in chapter 21, there's a division between the destruction of Israel and the second coming of Christ. They're not the same event. Whereas in Matthew and Mark, you can read it to look like they're they're exclusively tied together.
Justin Pardee:Okay. So in verses 12 through 13, Jesus says, before any of this occurs, there'll be a time of great persecution. And he and he describes it saying, you'll be dragged into synagogues and prisons. You'll stand trial before kings and governors before you're my followers. But this will be your opportunity to tell them about me.
Justin Pardee:Let me just ask you this because I feel like this is one of those things where I hear from a lot of Christians or whatever like, we're living under this time of persecution. What what's the difference between the type of persecution that Jesus is talking about here, and then just being a part of a culture that flat out isn't Christian?
Matt Brown:Right. So I I would just say this as American Christians, we need to be very very careful about using the word persecution. Oftentimes, people are just dealing with you because you have some personality struggles, and you've you've probably been a jerk for some reason. I always hear people say that, well, experiencing persecution, and the reality is they just need to grow relationally. And and they're just not really smooth with people, and they need to figure that out.
Matt Brown:So specifically here, you know, he's not talking about the second coming. Remember there's a division. So when he says, but before this happens, they will lay their hands on persecute you, they will deliver you up to the synagogues. What he's talking about is everything that's gonna take place in the book of Acts. All these things that he talks about happen in the book of Acts.
Matt Brown:Right. Every single one of these things happen. The apostle Paul bears witness to governors, and ultimately to Caesar himself. I mean, so the book of Acts is going to end with Jesus, or excuse me, with the apostle Paul in Rome, bearing witness to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And so all these things are gonna happen, but still that's not the end.
Matt Brown:So what I would say is, as we're transitioning from a Judeo Christian ethic in our culture to a secular culture and ethic, we just have to learn to deal with it. And so politically, you know, one of the things that makes me so sad about our current culture is both, you know, those on the right, Christians, and those on the on the left, you know, secularists, I think both of them are awful. You know, I hear Christians all the time, we need to take our country back. Well, let me just tell you, this country was never ours. Mhmm.
Matt Brown:This country is everybody's. You know, it's everybody that's an American's. And so that means it's the Christians and it's the non Christians. It's the straight persons and it's the gay persons, and it's for all of us. And I think what's so sad about those on the left and those on the right, they're both trying to take a country and make it their own and pretend that the other person doesn't exist.
Matt Brown:And my hope for the future of our country is, is that we can learn to love and respect each other, and simply agree with the differences in our points of view. And the tragedies of our country is when people have not been able to accept those differences, and we ultimately fought a huge war over it, where a lot of people died. And so I'm hopeful that we will be able to not take the country back and make it ourselves, but make it a country where people are free to worship, and free to pray to God as they see fit, and live their lives, and just, you know, people that maybe, you know, reject Christianity are able to do the same, and we can appreciate the freedom that we have in America. But I don't know that we're experiencing persecution, so to speak. There are things, some things that are happening with people who, you know, conscientiously object to maybe gay marriage, and they don't wanna bake a cake for something.
Matt Brown:And I'm hopeful that our country will make that right. Because I don't believe that America, and this is a political statement, not a theological statement, but I don't think that it's best for Americans to force people to do things that they're consciously objected to. I just don't think that's that's a place of freedom. And so I'm hope I'm hoping that, and we could talk about that maybe as the political season rolls around. I'm hoping that we will be able to really respect one another when it comes to issues of conscience.
Matt Brown:And I think that our country is, was founded on those principles, but we're sliding from that. As I think people on the left are becoming a lot like what people on the right used to be. And that's really unfortunate. And I hope that we can figure that out for the best of all of us. But some people are are are feeling persecution for their convictions.
Matt Brown:I mean, certainly if you get fined, you know, a $100,000 because you wouldn't bake a cake, I mean, that's certainly is is persecution. But most of us, you know, we we have not experienced that yet. And then even what we're experiencing in America compared to people who are being beheaded, imprisoned, jailed, and beaten around the world. You know, I think about one of the guys, you know, in East Africa where we had a church, you know, Sandals has a little campus there, where a guy prayed to receive Christ and his wife poisoned him. That's persecution, right?
Matt Brown:Here drink this, eat this, and he almost died. I mean, was I don't know if you guys know the story, but he they actually put him in a casket and went to bury him. And ultimately, wasn't dead, and they dropped him. Because he was in the casket box, and they were taking him to the tomb, or to the grave, and they dropped him and he broke his coccyx.
Justin Pardee:That was a raw deal. Okay. Sorry, buddy.
Stephanie Schaefer:He didn't die, but you can't sit for while.
Matt Brown:Scared his friends to death because he wasn't dead, but his wife poisoned him that way, and Hello. And that happened. So that's persecution. Right? Your wife kills you because you gave your life to Jesus.
Matt Brown:That's rough.
Justin Pardee:Right. Okay. So here's the deal. As I'm reading through it, I'm looking at verse 25, is about where it seems that maybe Jesus is making a shift. Is that how you see it?
Justin Pardee:The word Jesus is making kind of a shift to talking about not just the destruction of Jerusalem, but maybe looking forward to Yeah. Absolutely. Some other end times of world.
Matt Brown:Absolutely. Verse 25 is the shift. So everything is pointing towards the destruction of Jerusalem, which is an event in human history that Jesus says is coming, and then it's gonna shift to the coming of the son of man. And most of your Bibles will actually give you that distinction.
Justin Pardee:Got it. Okay. So it says all this crazy stuff about the sun, the moon, everybody's going to be perplexed by everything's happening in nature, the tides, all kinds of stuff like this. But then the end of this little description, Jesus says in verse 28, so when all of these things begin to happen, stand and look up for your salvation is near. And it it kind of sounds like Jesus is wanting us to be excited amidst of like, you know, the stuff of movie trailers.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Absolutely. So back to the celestial event. So there there's something that's gonna take place before Christ returns. Something is going to happen in the heavens, literally a celestial event.
Matt Brown:Something that has to do with the sun, the moon, and the stars. There's going to be some kind of shake up that affects the environment on earth. And so we think about global warming. Right? So everybody talks about global warming.
Matt Brown:There's going to be some celestial event that affects the seas and the waves, and the Bible says, and peep this event is going to be so globally terrifying that people will faint with fear and foreboding at what is coming on the world. People are gonna be terrified at what's happening. But what ultimately is going to happen is not a celestial event, but a heavenly event. Christ is going to come Mhmm. Through this event where the heavens are literally shaken.
Matt Brown:And Jesus says, when you see these things, don't be afraid, don't hide, stand up, because I'm coming for you. And so we need as believers not to be afraid of the end of the world, but we need to pray for it, and we need to expect it, and we need to long for it, because ultimately, that's when everything is made right. And so when everybody else is freaking out, we should be excited and happy that God is going to make everything right, and everything's gonna be great. And so Jesus is trying to encourage us, look, you're gonna be persecuted, all these terrible things are gonna happen, and then ultimately the world's gonna end, but don't worry. You know, think about other verses, he says, I have overcome the world.
Matt Brown:You guys are gonna be okay. And so this is why we need to remember not to panic, not to freak out, but just to trust in God, not not only in life, not and not only in death, but at the end of all life.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So we can still trust him. Because what's coming behind these celestial events is him, and that's who we want to come. Mhmm.
Stephanie Schaefer:So, yeah, he wraps up talking about all those events and says, you see all these things taking place, you can know that the kingdom of God is near. And you mentioned before too even when we're talking about people getting persecuted and dragged in front of governors that a lot of these things already happened in acts. And it seems like every generation of people are saying like, it's bad. Like, the end must be near. What how do we make of that what do we make of that warning, and how do we prepare ourselves when it feels like this has been happening?
Stephanie Schaefer:Like, do we know
Matt Brown:if it's actually Yeah. I think that's I think what you're saying is absolutely right. This is what I would say about the first century church. So at the end of Acts, I believe so there there's all kinds of theories about all the things that need to take place for Jesus Christ to return.
Justin Pardee:Right.
Matt Brown:I believe that the apostle Paul, Luke, and Peter believed that they had done everything in order to make Christ return. So literally in Acts 28, the gospel has gone out to the nations as they understand it. I mean, when you read Acts, right? So so what is Acts one eight? You will be witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.
Matt Brown:And so literally, what is the book of Acts? The book of Acts is the gospel going out. Now we now know, right, the world is much bigger than they thought it was. And there are p people and and tribes and ethnicities that have never heard the gospel. But from the perspective of Paul, they have done everything at that point in time for Christ to return.
Matt Brown:And they believe that. And that's why the book of acts is is showing the gospel has gone out. And so so absolutely, you know, every generation gets, you know, convinced that Christ is gonna return in their generation, which I think is good. Right? We need to have a sense of urgency like, okay, life could be over, but they become overwhelmed with it.
Matt Brown:Like the the great disappointment, I think it was in 1844 where thousands of people sold all their, you know, their homes and and believed in the imminent return of Christ, and then he didn't come. And they were completely bamboozled by these religious leaders that got them all worked up and they lost everything. And this has happened multiple times in history when Jesus said, look, nobody knows the specific hour or the moment. And what he's doing is he's trying to say, watch out for the season, you're not gonna know the moment. So we're never gonna know the precise moment, but we can look and say, okay, you know, and what I would say is as I believe that Christ could return at any moment, and and I think that's been true for a while.
Matt Brown:So And we're gonna diligently try to reach the nations, people groups that we know haven't heard the gospel, because we believe ultimately that that's the thing ultimately that's keeping Christ from return, is He wants every tribe, every tongue, every nation. The book of Zechariah says that there will be there will be 10 people from every tribe worshiping God in the end of all things. And so why 10? Because it takes 10 men to produce a synagogue. So every community, every nation in the entire world is going to have representation in the kingdom of God.
Matt Brown:And and we know that. And so we're we're waiting for that. And and I believe that, you know, Christ will return when, you know, the last person that's supposed to be saved, saved. And we see that all throughout the book of Acts. All those who were ordained to be saved, were predestined to be saved.
Matt Brown:We we see that all through the book of Acts. This is all God's plan, and he is completely exercising this out. And he knows precisely when he's gonna return. So
Justin Pardee:One of the things that's so cool is that Stephanie pointed out when we were traveling and when we visited India last year as part of our Bar 100 project is like, I've heard you share that before we've talked about here that here at Sandals. And I've always like thought of that as like a compassion thing, you know, for the loss. Like, hey, we need to go to all these different nations. But one of the things Stephanie pointed out while we were there was, man, like nobody in America worships God like these Indian people are worshiping their gods. And how God really needs to get how how much cooler the party will be, how much cooler the worship and the celebrations will be
Stephanie Schaefer:when it's diverse it will be like Right. Exactly. How multifaceted worship will get to be when every single nation and every single language and people group will be worshiping God in their own unique way.
Matt Brown:Yeah. And that's the beauty of Isaiah chapter 60 when he talks about the end of all things. Every every tribe and tongue and nation is bringing their gifts and their offerings to the temple. And it's just powerful, and it's beautiful, and it's it's a tragedy that the Jewish people missed the heart of God for the nations in that passage. But, know, they're talking about the world as big as they know it from the East, from the West, from the North, from the South.
Matt Brown:And they're saying all these people, even way down there, you know, as far as they knew are coming to Jerusalem. Kings are coming, laying down their crowns. You know, people are coming, bringing their gifts and their offerings, and it's going to be an absolutely beautiful thing. Because from the very beginning, God didn't just love the Jews, He loves all people. And the Jews were supposed to be as missionaries unto the earth to bless them.
Matt Brown:And so ultimately, as Christians, it's now our job to tell the world including Jews about the love of Christ.
Justin Pardee:Okay. So then, I love this because Jesus gives illustration about a tree once again. I love how many times he's done that. And this time he goes, knows the fig tree or any other tree.
Matt Brown:He has fascination with figs. Yeah. He must have liked figs.
Justin Pardee:I love it. He's just like, picture picture
Stephanie Schaefer:feel super holy because we have a fig tree in our backyard. Someone's like, oh,
Matt Brown:I know what you Have you had a fig? I'm not a big fan.
Stephanie Schaefer:They're that great and they attract a lot of bugs when they're Yeah.
Matt Brown:They're Yeah. And they stink.
Stephanie Schaefer:But it's really pretty and very leafy.
Justin Pardee:Yeah. Don't judge me. Is a fig a unique thing? I also thought like I I thought a fig was just like a dried up plum. No?
Stephanie Schaefer:No. Fig is an actual fruit.
Matt Brown:A fig is a fig.
Stephanie Schaefer:Yeah. It's a fig.
Justin Pardee:You guys just So you're the
Stephanie Schaefer:same dried figs, but then it's not figs are not dried up. It's not like prunes.
Justin Pardee:What happens? Oh, prunes Yes. Are
Stephanie Schaefer:I think they're dried plums.
Matt Brown:It's like a combination between a raisin and a plum.
Stephanie Schaefer:Well, it's like a dried plum.
Justin Pardee:So you don't But they call
Stephanie Schaefer:it a prune. But a fig is an actual fruit.
Justin Pardee:What is the point of figs, people?
Matt Brown:I don't know. Jesus really likes it. Yeah, dude.
Justin Pardee:He's all about that. Well, this
Matt Brown:And he got upset when he didn't get him some figs.
Justin Pardee:So Okay. So this time around, he's like, notice the fig tree or any other tree. Here's how it goes. And then, Matt, in verse 32, he goes, I tell you the truth. This generation will not pass from the scene until all these things have taken place.
Justin Pardee:So it's pretty safe to assume that everybody who was alive at that time that Jesus was talking is dead now.
Matt Brown:Right. And so how do we connect these people? This is the the most challenging verse in the chapter to translate. And so it clearly can't mean his generation, because Luke is writing this after Jesus' generation's all dead. So most of them are dead.
Matt Brown:So this is, you know, probably thirty years after the resurrection of Christ. So most of them have passed. And so he's writing this, and so the assumption here is that the word generation probably means the last generation, the last generation on earth. So when when they pass, these things will take place.
Stephanie Schaefer:So Almost like once it gets started?
Matt Brown:Yeah. So human humanity had a beginning point with Adam and Eve, and it will have an ending point with the final generation. So I think that's the best translation for that, but it is a very very difficult thing to translation. He says, and earth will pass away. He says, but my words will not pass away.
Matt Brown:And so the emphasis is is that everything is moving to end, but ultimately God's plan, God's purpose, and his words will not end.
Stephanie Schaefer:Okay. So when he says that like heaven and earth will pass away, we talked last week that you're like, you don't think that heaven and earth are actually gonna disappear, but that they're gonna be resurrected. So what how do we reconcile that with
Matt Brown:Right. And so, you know, again, I'm speculating on that. There will be a new heaven and a new earth, and my idea is that the earth and the heavens will be redeemed and renewed. And so what that process looks like, like, have no idea how God's gonna resurrect my body. He doesn't consult me with this, but somehow he's gonna resurrect me, and somehow you'll resurrect the new heavens and the new earth.
Matt Brown:Why do I believe that? Because Romans eight says, all creation longs for the resurrection. Mhmm. All creation is waiting for and longing for us to be resurrected and the earth to be resurrected, and the heavens and the moons and the stars and everything to be the way God always meant to be and even better. And so we look forward to that and we long for that.
Matt Brown:And so I think pass away is just a figure of speech of saying it's it's gone. It's no more it won't exist in that way. It's going to be new. Okay. It's going to be new.
Matt Brown:But, you know, I just don't like Christians who talk about, well, God's gonna burn everything with fire and it's all gonna be destroyed. And, you know, God's creative act in the universe is an act of redemption, not destruction. So destruction is something that's reserved for the unrepentant unbelievers. You know, Romans or excuse me, Revelation twenty one eight gives a list murderers, unbelievers, haters, gossipers, you know, people disobedient to their parents and all. It gives us list of like basically horrific people that will be judged by God.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:But that comes after Christ saying, the new heavens and the new earth and how beautiful it's gonna be in the new Jerusalem and it's gonna be fantastic.
Justin Pardee:Okay. So Jesus says something at the end of all this that really sticks out to me and is a little bit confusing. So verse 34, he starts off and he's basically giving a a warning, right, to stay focused on all this stuff. Says, watch out. Don't let your hearts be dulled by carousing and drunkenness and by the worries of this life.
Justin Pardee:Don't let the day catch you unaware like a trap for that day will come upon everyone living on the earth. Keep alert at all times. So I'm totally tracking with you Jesus. But then he goes, pray that you might be strong enough to escape these coming horrors and stand before the son of man. Yeah.
Justin Pardee:What I need to get like the Walking Dead Hyundai or something? Like, I don't understand what what
Matt Brown:is Did going on say Hyundai?
Justin Pardee:Hyundai.
Matt Brown:I thought it was Hyundai.
Justin Pardee:I don't know. Didn't know existed as a real thing about Yeah.
Stephanie Schaefer:We don't even trust
Justin Pardee:too much. Everything I'm saying with a grain of salt.
Matt Brown:Maybe it is Hyundai. I thought it was Hyundai. No. So so let's go to the first 34. So Jesus says, watch yourselves, lest your hearts be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness, and the cares of this life.
Matt Brown:And so it's just really easy to get overwhelmed with this life. Mhmm. And you get so fixated on this that we miss out what's happening in the heavens and the signs that are coming. And so what he's saying is, you know, the Apostle Paul says, set your minds on heavenly things, not on earthly things. And so our focus, our hope, our attention needs to constantly be on heavenly things, because we get wrapped in earthly things, our worries, our families, our love life, our friends, our finances.
Matt Brown:It's so easy to get wrapped up in that, that what happens? Dissipation and drunkenness. And so when you become overwhelmed with this life, you choose coping mechanisms to deal with this life. And so that's a lot of people, you know, that struggle with drug addiction. The reality is they can't deal with the hardness of life.
Matt Brown:And so what is drunkenness? It's numbing yourself to the worries and hurts of this life. And so a lot of people, life is unbearable. And so the glory of the gospel and the hope of the gospel is it won't always be this way. And so we don't have to lose hope.
Matt Brown:We don't have to lose our heart because we know that one day God's gonna fix all these things. And so he says, don't be like these people that get so wrapped up in the here and now that that day will come on you like a trap. And so think about that, what's gonna be happen? Those are gonna be caught in judgment forever. So it says it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Matt Brown:And so again, what is the second coming of Christ look like? It's global, everyone sees it, everyone's affected by it. It's not it's not going to be in privacy. It's going it's going to be out in the open. But he says, say stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place.
Matt Brown:I think what he's talking about is this is a salvation call. We need to be focused on enduring to the end, right? The true saint endures to the end, so we continue to pray, we continue to stay focused. And it's not that we're we're saved by this process, but those who are really saved hang on forever. And we all keep praying and keep asking that God will help us to stay focused regardless of how bad it gets.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. Because we ultimately don't wanna miss out on celebrating with the coming of Christ. Listen what he says, he says, pray that you may have this drink to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the son of man. So ultimately, how are we gonna stand before the son of man? Because we have been found faithful.
Matt Brown:Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful in little things, now be faithful in much. And so we want to be found faithful. The apostle Paul says, I run the race in such a way not to be disqualified. So we need to be careful that we don't lose, you know, our hope.
Matt Brown:We don't lose our faith. And and unfortunately, as a pastor of Sandals now for twenty plus years, I've seen people lose their hope Mhmm. Lose their faith. They get overwhelmed with the here and now, they get overwhelmed with stuff, they get overwhelmed with heartache, and they abandon their faith. I've seen it happen over and over and over again, and we wanna stay faithful.
Matt Brown:And so what he's trying to do in Luke 21 is not scare us, he's trying to encourage us to stay faithful through all this process. So none of his suffering, none of these terrible things is happening, he's predicted them. And so one of the things, you know, when when Jerusalem fell, and we don't know if this is true or not, but one of the one of the ancient church fathers records that the Christians refused to fight with the guy who claimed to be the Messiah. So there was a guy who claimed to be the Messiah, and all of Israel was to rally to him, and he was going to throw off the Roman Empire. And he actually did it first.
Matt Brown:They actually made great progress and won some battles. But the church refused to follow him, and they actually escaped judgment. And so, right? Because they paid attention, and they stay focused on the teachings of Jesus. And so that's one of the church histories is the church in large did not die in Jerusalem.
Matt Brown:Because they listened to his teachings, they paid attention, they stayed faithful, and they trusted him. And so we we no matter how difficult things get, we have to stay focused on Jesus. And think about that. Christians walked away from their families Mhmm. From their businesses, from their friends.
Matt Brown:Mhmm. And at the time, nobody thought nobody thought Jerusalem could ever fall, because it was the most well fortified city in the world.
Stephanie Schaefer:Okay. Quick question. Like, I hadn't I've never heard that before, like that part of the history. Where are some places that we could learn some of that kind of church history?
Matt Brown:Yeah. Well, it's gonna be not church history, it's gonna be by a guy by the name of Josephus, who is a Jewish historian, who fights actually as a general in the Jewish army, and he is in charge of the Galilean forces. So Galileans in North, and Simon, I think his name was Simon Bar Kokhba, I think is how you say it, is the general
Justin Pardee:need your word for it.
Matt Brown:Yeah. He is the leader in the South in Jerusalem, and he calls himself the Messiah. He claims that he's the Christ. And so when the Roman armies invade Galilee, and Josephus sees them, he has a change of heart.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And he switches sides. Right. So he becomes the Benedict Arnold of the Jewish people. But then he becomes the greatest historian that that Judaism ever knows. And he writes about the wars, he writes about the battles.
Matt Brown:Listen to this, he actually says 1,100,000 Jews died in Jerusalem.
Justin Pardee:Oh my gosh.
Matt Brown:Think about that. 1,100,000. Now even if this is an exaggeration, is a lot of And people that about a 150,000 were carried off to be slaves. So Jesus predicted it, it happened, you know. And and like I said, Simon Bar, which means son of Kaqba, what I don't know, can't remember who Kaqba is, but he claimed to be the Messiah, and he said I'm the Christ.
Matt Brown:And he killed anybody that that didn't follow him, that didn't listen to him. And ultimately, that's why the Jews were destroyed, because they fought against each other. Mhmm. And they didn't have a united front against the Romans, and the Romans came in and just obliterated Jerusalem. And it was tragic.
Matt Brown:It was the worst the Jews had ever seen. Because even like think King Nebuchadnezzar, the Kings of Persia, those guys never destroyed everybody. When the Romans came this time, they weren't looking to save Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego and Daniel, right? What did they do? When when King Nebuchadnezzar came, he's he kept the very best for himself.
Justin Pardee:Yep.
Matt Brown:When the Romans came, they killed them all. They killed them all. And Josephus says, this is gross. But Josephus says that women cook their own children and ate them. That's how bad it was inside the temple, inside the fortress of Jerusalem.
Matt Brown:That's how bad it was. And that's why Jesus says, things have never been that bad. That'll be the worst it ever is for the It Jewish was really really bad, and really really tragic. So I don't know if I answered your question. Kinda I
Stephanie Schaefer:was just asking like, where could we find, like, do we just look up Josephus?
Matt Brown:Yeah. You can study that stuff. I mean, ultimately, you know, I mean, that's my job. I have to study that stuff.
Stephanie Schaefer:Well, thanks for studying that for us. Yeah.
Matt Brown:Yeah. It's just Jewish history. I mean, you know, these things happened, and you know, the audience reading Luke, they're gonna know that it happened because Rome erected a huge monument to crushing the Jews in Rome. I mean, it's still there to this day. You can still see it.
Matt Brown:And because they they just got so frustrated with them and and and just ultimately said, they all gotta die. So
Justin Pardee:Yikes. That sounds like some Taylor Swift style vengeance going on right there.
Stephanie Schaefer:Oh, Taylor Swift is not that harsh.
Justin Pardee:Well, I mean, that's because she doesn't have a giant army. Actually, that's false. She she does have a giant army. Okay. So at the very end here, closing out versus 37 through 38.
Justin Pardee:Every day Jesus went to the temple to teach. Every evening he returned to spend the night on the Mount Of Olives, which just sounds so peaceful by the way. Says the crowds gathered at the temple early each morning to hear him. So it's basically Jesus just kind of riding it out teaching every day before the till he's gonna get arrested next chapter.
Matt Brown:Yeah. So this is kind of cool actually for those of you like the outdoors. Jesus is camping is actually what it says in the original language on the Mount Of Olives. I think it's pretty cool. So That sounds nice.
Matt Brown:Yeah. I I tell our church when we go there and we stand on on on the Mount Of Olives is that this is Jesus Christ's favorite place to go. Mhmm. Like when he's in Jerusalem, this is where he camps, this is where he hangs out, these are his people. And what's so cool is there's still trees today that were there when he was there.
Matt Brown:Because olive trees basically can live forever. A lot of people don't know that. But as as long as they're not burned, they just live like I mean, so there's 3,000 year old trees. Isn't that crazy?
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:I mean, it's just amazing. So he's out there tent camping, but every day during the day, he goes into Jerusalem into the temple and he preaches out in the open. And so why is Luke telling us that? Because, you know, Jesus, He's not some like, you know, magician on the corner. He is in the theater.
Matt Brown:He is teaching. He's telling people exactly what they need to hear. This is a very, very public ministry. Because part of what the Romans need to understand is that Jesus isn't just some hillbilly, but that he was actually like a radical teacher and a incredibly influential leader. And so people followed him.
Matt Brown:And and the actual Greek, I love it, says they hung on every word. Everything he said blew people away, and everyone was amazed by this religious teacher named Jesus because they never heard anyone like this. Now ultimately, it is the religious leadership of Jerusalem that rejects him and kills him and slaughters him. But Luke wants us to know, Jesus is very popular. So all throughout the gospel of Luke, right, massive crowds follow, thousands of people wherever he goes, and the miracle of feeding in the 5,000, you know, probably 27,000 people when you include men, women, and children.
Matt Brown:Absolutely amazing. This guy rocked the world. He rocked the Roman world in Jerusalem, and he's going to be crucified in a kangaroo court at midnight without the people knowing.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:So this whole thing is gonna be maneuvered. And so it's a setup. And so Luke wants us to know, because the Roman's gonna go, why on earth do these guys kill their own king? Mhmm. And what you're gonna find out that it wasn't the Jewish people that killed him.
Matt Brown:It was the Jewish leadership, and not even all the leadership is present.
Justin Pardee:Mhmm.
Matt Brown:And so, whole thing's a scam. It's a scam. And it's the most influential religious leaders putting pressure on Pilate ultimately to make him do this. And and they set him up, and and they pull it off. But praise God, it's not the end, because he rises from the dead and changes the world.
Matt Brown:So it's pretty cool.
Justin Pardee:Indeed. Good stuff. Hey, I imagine you guys have some questions that might have come up. Maybe you feel like we left some things unanswered a little bit. So of course, we want to get your questions here on the show.
Justin Pardee:Send them in either sandalshirsch dot com slash the debrief. Click the big red button or you can hit us up on Facebook. Send us a message on our page at the debrief. We'd love to get your questions here on the show. There's lots of good stuff.
Justin Pardee:And then, hey, we've been having a bunch of folks share with us on the weekends how much they enjoy the podcast. And then we have a bunch of other people say they want to listen to it. So if you are listening to the show and you love it, do us a favor. Talk to the friends in your community group. Reach out to them.
Justin Pardee:And if they're having a hard time getting subscribed, show them how to do it. You too can be a kindness ambassador this week as you share the debrief. Got it ladies?
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm. And gentlemen.
Matt Brown:Yeah. Let's cultivate some new friends on
Justin Pardee:the debrief. Exactly. Cultivate is for the ladies. It really like a kindness ambassador. I speak to the women.
Justin Pardee:That's why I made all the Taylor Swift references.
Stephanie Schaefer:Oh, thanks for that. That's what we love.
Matt Brown:You are so in touch with the hearts of women.
Justin Pardee:Dude, I know what's up. Okay. Steph, speaking of the hearts of women, let's get a sweet inspirational quote straight from Pinterest.
Matt Brown:I hope this is good.
Stephanie Schaefer:I would love to. Alright. Today's quote, never apologize for who you are.
Matt Brown:That is horrible advice and stupid thing. Who were that was on Pinterest? Yeah. Never apologize for who are. I have to apologize for who I am every day.
Matt Brown:Like every day to God and to others because who I am oftentimes is awful.
Justin Pardee:Oh, yeah, dude. This quote is like basically the exact opposite of
Matt Brown:Of our vision. Yeah. Way to go, Stephanie.
Stephanie Schaefer:But looked really cute and unprintable. So
Matt Brown:Never apologize for who you are.
Stephanie Schaefer:I I just What if
Matt Brown:who you are as a jerk?
Stephanie Schaefer:You should probably apologize for that.
Justin Pardee:You're probably just being persecuted.
Stephanie Schaefer:Maybe you're yeah. Was like, maybe you're just being persecuted.
Matt Brown:Then you'll be very lonely.
Stephanie Schaefer:Oh. Yeah.
Matt Brown:Not you, but whoever wrote that. Thank you.
Stephanie Schaefer:Yes. No. I did not write the quote. Just to be clear. I just find them.
Justin Pardee:Yeah. You just pinned it on your favorite board.
Stephanie Schaefer:You don't know my life.
Matt Brown:Eamon. It's already a bad start.
Stephanie Schaefer:Mhmm. Yeah. You just ruined it.
Justin Pardee:No. I feel so good in right now, guys.
Matt Brown:Well, go.
Justin Pardee:You gotta encourage me.
Matt Brown:You're awesome.
Stephanie Schaefer:The
Matt Brown:pink bear strikes again.