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This podcast offers business solutions to help listeners develop and implement action plans for lean process improvement and implement continuous improvement projects, cost reductions, product quality enhancements, and process effectiveness improvement. Listeners come from many industries in both manufacturing and office applications.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 0:04
In my mind, I like pair innovation with technology already, and you are like, Hey, these are separate things.
Claire Quigley 0:11
I guess the key question here is, is the innovation influencing the technology that the organization needs? Or is technology influencing the innovation. If I put in this technology, innovation is going to happen, you know. Or if I put in this technology, we're going to, you know, accelerate the innovation. What we need to look at here is, how does one support the other? They're not, they're not naturally living together. When we bring it back into that plan, and bring it back into the reason of the transformation, and bring it back into where the organization is going. Are we happy with that, or do we need to change something here?
Andy Olrich 0:56
G'day, everyone and welcome to this episode of the lean solutions Podcast. I'm joined today by my fantastic co host, Shane dolphin. Bob Shane, how are you, mate?
Shayne Daughenbaugh 1:04
I am well. Thank you, sir. How about you doing? I'm going
Andy Olrich 1:07
well. So for those of you who haven't tuned in before, my name is Andy Ulrich, and I'm coming to you live from Australia, which is really cool, because Shane checking out your shirt is right.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 1:18
I'm trying to represent, because I hear that that our guest also is in Australia, so I'm trying to represent. I got my bluey shirt on, you know, because, like, I had to have something to connect with, with the two that are down under. And I was as I was putting this on, and I started thinking about something profound that this little blue healer from Australia teaches us. And stick with me here, but in every episode, what I have found, I don't watch a lot of them, but in every episode that I have watched, I found that bluey turns, you know, ordinary situations into some kind of crazy adventure. You know, whether whatever happens to be using power of imagination and play. And here's the really brilliant part, she doesn't just dream up these games randomly. She seems to observe what's going on around her, understands what everyone needs, and then creates experiences that bring the whole family or all her friends together toward this common goal. Now I know that there's like, what's, what's the, what's the, what's the bridge here Shane, between this Australian cartoon and this child's cartoon character and business innovation? Well, in the corporate world, I think that we often face similar or leaders often face similar challenges that bluey seems to be able to navigate effortless, effortlessly. That's the word I was looking for. There's this massive gap between technological capabilities and then the business outcomes that leaders truly, really want to achieve. You know, everywhere it seems I've the more leaders I talk to, the more I'm hearing about how they're struggling with how to turn promising technology, you know, into something that's scalable, aligned, innovative, whatever words you want to use to get the results that truly serves their customers, and I'm excited to hear about the guest today, because, as I understand it, we're going to be looking into and exploring a seven part framework that helps leaders bridge this gap in thinking through everything from change management to process design strategy all the way to the customer experience. And so I'm very excited about this. Andy, can you introduce our guest for us today?
Andy Olrich 3:28
I would love to Shane. It's my absolute pleasure to introduce everybody to Claire Quigley. I've known Claire for a little while, and I'm super excited to have her on the podcast. Finally. So who is Claire? Claire is the director of tech team whisperer, and she's a powerhouse of change, guiding teams and innovation and leaders into innovation to shed outdated paradigms and transform organizations through technology and innovation. She's also the deputy chair of the hunter Innovation Forum, which is a fantastic network that I'm connected with as well. She's a key player in driving regional transformation by creating meaningful connections and fostering dynamic collaboration in the Hunter region. Now, Claire, while she lives in Australia. Now, she was originally from kilkennyan Island, and she brings over 25 years of experience in technology, strategy and innovation to the table, and her journey began in the fast paced world of high tech startups, where she honed her skills before taking on a pivotal role as research commercialisation specialist at the Walton Institute, formerly tssg. Claire has this unique ability to bridge the gap between technical breakthroughs and real world applications, and that's made her a catalyst for innovation from the start. Now, Claire's impact doesn't stop there. I've seen this first hand during her time with Waterford chamber. Claire was instrumental in supporting local businesses through a period of economic turbulence following the closure of Waterford Crystal, and that was an economic pillar of the region at the time. Her leadership as two IC was a beacon of guidance for businesses, helping them seize new opportunities in the face of uncertainty. Now she's even made a detour to corporate land, holding strategic roles in corporate giants like Canon Australia, and again, driving innovation agendas, driving ground and leading groundbreaking projects and launches. Now there's a lot of we could go on with Claire. I think you've got an idea of what we have here today. And look, she's really strong at putting people at the heart of her work. She wholeheartedly believes in the power of dei as a cornerstone of the success in imagination, collaboration and innovation. And she's also a proud judge for the annual tech diversity awards. So Claire is just an amazing person. It's a privilege to know and it's a privilege to introduce her to you all today. And when she's not doing that, she's living up in the upper hunter of New South Wales, and she's surrounded by her vibrant family of humans, horses and
Shayne Daughenbaugh 5:50
dogs. Claire, are there any healers? I just need to know. Oh, I was just Hey, Jack Russell's. Louis is brokenhearted.
Claire Quigley 6:01
Claire, welcome to the show. How are you? Oh, thank you guys. Thank you for that introduction. Thank you for having me. I'm good. I'm good. It's a nice early morning here in New South Wales, Australia.
Andy Olrich 6:15
Yeah, for sure, I've got that excuse when I trip over my words and things like that. Hey, that's right, and you get that same license today, clear.
Claire Quigley 6:22
So, yes, I'm on my first coffee. We're good.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 6:28
So that was, that was quite, quite the, quite the bio, I mean, a very rich, very rich experience, and list of all the things that you've done that you're involved with, even going into the judging, what was, what was the contest? The innovation contest, or
Claire Quigley 6:50
tech diversity awards? Yes, the tech Diversity Award, yeah, talk
Shayne Daughenbaugh 6:54
to me real quick, like, give me 30 seconds about what that even is.
Claire Quigley 6:58
It's fantastic. So tech diversity awards is essentially an awards which has been created by in order to recognize diversity in technology projects and where people are looking to utilize technology to create better diversity and inclusion in organizations, but also having greater representation, diverse representation of within technology teams as well, and how that plays out for for the better, for people, you know, we see great results in terms of applications that have been developed, for example, for people who have difficulty reading. Or there's these fabulous, you know, corporates, of course, have totally different level of what they produce. I get to judge the Tech for Good category every year. We also have government, education, corporate programs as well, but we are very much about not just having different voices at the table. It's about giving those voice power at the table so you actually have influence in the decisions. Which is what I love about these awards, is how that plays out. So yes, that was a short version, but if you go on just a quick plug tech diversity awards, because there's actually a whole program that they've now created for organizations to get involved in diversity, in their technology teams and the work they do in technology. So yes, jump online anybody who's interested. It's fabulous. It's great, and it's huge. It's getting so big, which is great, particularly right now.
Andy Olrich 8:27
Good on you. Claire, like, Yeah, you're a great human and how powerful diversity is. Linking to our topic today with aligning technology with innovation, how do we how do we connect the dots? So we're going to dive into that today. Now, Claire, when we've when we've caught up, you often talk about the gap between technology and the business outcomes leaders want. Can you share what this can you share what this gap typically looks like when you walk into an organization and you knowing what you know and have experienced, what are you seeing? And what do you think are some of the causes of that?
Claire Quigley 9:00
Yes. So I guess the first thing, when I was kind of thinking about this morning, you know, and jumping online with you guys, what's really interesting, I guess, in the last number of years, is we haven't necessarily, it's not that we're failing more. So, you know, there's lots of stats, depending on any reason. You know, you can go, 85% of projects fail inverted commas, up to 90% 70% depending on which report you're reading at any given time. What actually, what's really interesting that the research is showing us guys, is that we're not necessarily failing more, we're just not succeeding more. We're delivering more mediocre results. Really, that's the gap. I said, Yes, we're actually gone. So in the last 10 years, you think we'd be getting, you know, better wins on the board here, right, right. But, and Harvard, Harvard has, you know, produced some really good research around this, whereby we're looking at an average of, you know, 12% absolute success in projects. We went from, I think it was. Is 20, 28% maybe failure to down to 13% you're like, Oh, cool. We're reducing our failure rate. But actually what's happening is we're just fattening up in the in the middle of that pipeline, where we're looking at an increase in mediocre results. Now, I don't know about you guys, but when I talk to execs, you know mediocre is not really where they want to be landing when they're when they're launching these projects, yes. So what's really interesting about that is the gap isn't like, oh, you can walk in and go, right. There's absolutely a really clear gap there. What happens is, you just, you get a sense, you know, people are just, you go in, you know. Okay, we're pumping a lot of money into this, but things are not moving. You know, there's a lot of bottlenecks showing up. Friction between teams is often a big one now, and it's often, it's interesting, because it's never, you know, overt, friction, it's more people are working together, but they're not getting results, clarity and roles and responsibilities. People are the accountability elements are not very clear. So that's quite a thing I see. So there tends to be a lot of quiet resistance within teams. Is probably one of the big gaps I see. The other thing is, depending on the leadership, how hands on they are or not, the expectations and the clarity of those expectations plays out differently across the technology teams and other teams win the business and and what success looks like. So I guess that will be a big indicator to me of that gap. Is when I talk to people about, okay, well, how does this strategy play out in your role and in your function? I start to see a lot of there's there's disparate versions of what that looks like, which, of course, plays back into the strategy. And if you don't have very clear how you're going to do this, it's, it very quickly becomes obvious in the results, which comes back to mediocre. So people are kind of, because there's smart people, you know, they're driven people, but if they're not necessarily aligned on what that success looks like and how to deliver it.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 12:05
So, so my question then, from this, you know, when I think of mediocre, you know, it's some, sometimes it's hard to see mediocre, especially you said it's like, it's fattening, you know, when there's great success and when there's an absolute failure, but mediocre in the middle is like, Man, I don't know what are some, like, some flags that leaders made that you can point out, one or two flags that you may have been able to see and say because they go, Hey, what's wrong with what we're doing here?
Shayne Daughenbaugh 12:35
We How do you, how can you help leaders identify that mediocre middle part to say, Hey. I mean, because some things are good, they're going to point to the things that where the pain is. But if I'm just ambling along, I don't have any pain, you know, I I may not even see the opportunity for this innovation. That's hopefully what technology is supposed
Claire Quigley 12:58
to help us do. Yes, um, no, no. Great question. So I guess a couple of things come up is, you know, one of those will be misaligned metrics, so the measurements that leaders are using versus what has been used in the teams are not aligned, or they're very heavily technology orientated. So people think, Okay, I'm ticking the box. We're all we've got our tech roadmap. We're delivering on this. So you're looking at the roadmap going it's green, but yet you're walking into the organization and listening to the teams and the results are not reflective of that dashboard. That's a big one. So I often see misaligned metrics, and when I talk about that, it's about the meaningful metrics. So what I see a lot of in organizations is we have maturity maps, we have, you know, all these things telling us, you know, looking at particular systems, how we're performing against the road, the benchmarks in industry, for example. But does that really tell us how we're performing internally versus where we want to be. No in most cases, we're looking externally for validation instead of going, hang on, where are we going and what's the meaningful metric that's going to give us that guidance? And we don't necessarily pause and think about that in terms of how we execute the strategy that they're trying to play out. So that's a big one. The other one Shane is, you know, I don't know we've, I think we've spoken about this before. Andy actually, is that cargo cult mentality. So this is kind of, and I just love it. And somebody shared it with me, and I look in a different context, I was like, oh my god, this is what we're doing in here, in particular organization I was in. So essentially, it's, it's, it's cargo cultures is based on. So I think was after World War Two in the Pacific Islands, there was incidents where, essentially the US Army were delivering cargo planes, you know, obviously to provide Supply. Is, etc, during the war, you know. So these magnificent cargo planes would land, you know. And the natives on these islands were looking at these beautiful, big birds coming landing, giving them food, giving them healthcare, giving clothing, etc. When the war ended, of course, these cargo planes no longer actually were delivering all these things. But a number of years later, some visitors to the island arrived, and they started to observe what was in front of them. And they noticed that the natives used to go out at a certain time every evening and light some sticks, and just like, you know, the the guys, guys on the runway would be guy, Hey, you know, land here cargo plane. And they had, like, they'd made replica towers. They'd made replicate goggles that they saw the Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's actually, if you go online, you can find out about this. Well, I guess what? How I bring it? How this actually works in my brain is, it's like, what was happening is they kept doing the things, expecting a different outcome. So they were going out every evening, non stop. It's going, hey, you know we're gonna someday, this cargo planes gonna land. And at no point somebody asked, why are we doing this? Why? You know, if this is not happening, okay, what do we need to change? And I this is what I often see a lot in that, in that pace, is we actually we, when we dive into people, sometimes, because of fear, they just continue doing what they've been doing, until somebody absolutely tells them otherwise, and sometimes it's not knowing. So again, they'll kind of stay in that and you'll see that. I'm sure a lot of Lean you know, where we see people still hang on to the manual elements and the Excel spreadsheets of the work they're doing without questioning the effort they're putting in versus the output. Right? The cargo plane isn't landing, guys, we got to change tack here. And if we don't, you know, we're wasting a lot of, you know, we're literally, you know, hoping for the rain gods at some point. So, yeah, so I call it Cargo Cult mentality, what I see in the organization,
Andy Olrich 16:55
yeah, I'm a war history buff, and Claire, you schooled me on that, and it is a thing, right? And it's amazing. So How good's this? Listeners? We've got Bluey, we've got cargo cult, right? Trend sending messages, right? There's this thing around and diversity, right? But there's this whole thing about how we align that and yeah, have that curiosity and that critical thinking skill, but you've got to make it happen too, otherwise the leaders will just go, we can't be the prettiest or the most exciting factory that went broke. Okay, so how we do it now, Claire, as we said, you've got all these diverse industries that you work with, people in included in that. Now, what you, you know, your bread and butter now, is you've developed this amazing seven part framework, okay, and we touched on that earlier, but, yeah, how can you start talking us through that. You know, you can walk into any organization. What's this framework? How does it sort of keep us in that, in that pathway to to delivering what we're talking about?
Claire Quigley 17:50
Sure, so I guess, just to take a step back, the reason I developed this framework is because I've seen, you know, multiple times. I guess when I looked at where, where leaders were coming from, is that there's, there's often a gap in terms of the readiness. So leaders go, wow. You know, here's our plan. This is our strategy. This is what we're going to do. Everybody gets really excited, awesome. And then in some cases, they get into the execution, and the pain starts to to surface. People, you know, they're getting that push back and so on. So what I realized was leaders, managers and so on. We're not actually doing, going, stepping back and preparing effectively. So we're going from plan to execute. We're not preparing in between. We're, you know, and what does that look like? You know, we're going, what does what's it actually going to take to deliver this transformation? What's it actually going to be needed to be on this journey? Because it's great at the start, but how you know when you're in the messy middle, what's going to keep you going right? And this is why you need to prepare effectively. So that's really why I developed this framework. And this is as well. It just enables leaders to pause and ensure they're putting their effort and resource and energy in the right things as well. And yeah, so that's, I guess, where that came from, is helping leaders go. What's it going to take? What do I currently have? What do I What's my gap? And then how do I prepare effectively? So that's what this framework is about. The other aspect of this framework super quick, is that, as we go through it, hopefully this morning, quickly, what you'll notice is it takes you from that perspective of change lean, all those wonderful methodologies and approaches and mindsets, we also breathe in human centered thinking. We, you know, the design thinking element. So we what this framework is designed to do is help you span across all the aspects that you need to consider, rather than being heavily weighted in one particular area, because we always have a favorite comfort zone that we lean in and we know we're good at, we actually need to make sure we're stretching into the other areas in order to really increase the chance of success over mediocre.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 20:00
Sure. Now, as you explain this, Claire, one of the things that I can do, you sent us this. I can put this up on the screen. You would still want to, like, talk through it for those that are just listening. But if it's helpful, I can put this up on the screen and we can, you can at least see it for just a little bit, and then I'll just come back to us if,
Claire Quigley 20:18
if that's helpful, of course, yeah, no, that would be helpful. I'm a visual person, so that would be great. Thank you. Great. Well, when you're bringing that up, what you'll notice is, you know, the starting point for this framework, of this readiness framework, is really stepping back and going, why are we doing this? What is the purpose of it, and which it sounds very simple in theory, but when you actually sit down again, whether it's within the leadership team or within teams within the organization, like, why are we actually doing this? Why are we investing in this and extending those questions into the timeframe? So what are we actually hoping for here? Because sometimes, again, we could tend to just go right, let's take the first step would not having a kind of a bit of a map put forward in terms of our time and when I say time frame, it's it's not a project time frame, if that makes sense. It's just, hey, where would we love to be in 18 months time? And connecting with the hearts and minds of the people in the room, because that's what's going to motivate you when things are tough, right? And also, another thing here that I've looked at, or I help people look at, is the support from the board and the support at the exec level. If you don't have support for transformation or the project in question, hole five, get that support, because you're going to be, you know, it's going to be so hard to achieve what you're trying to achieve without that support. So it helps you just go, hang on. If I got this, this is fundamentally important. If I don't, I need to go get it. Because, yeah, you're just setting yourself up for a lot of, a lot of struggle and frustration. That's, you know, it's going to make it harder. So that's, I guess, where I start really honing in on what is the absolute purpose of this. And there's some prompt questions in this framework. And then, as you can see, in the middle, almost like a little sun, you know, the center is people in leadership, and they're ultimately everything. Comes back to the mindset, the behavior, the culture, the people within the organization, and their passion and drive behind this so and again, I'm sure you've both experienced this where, on paper, the project looks absolutely amazing. It's going to be transformational for the organization. You're like, How is this not getting the traction it needs, and in many cases, it's things like trust. You know, there's not trust within the organization. There's not things like clarity of, as I mentioned earlier on, rules and responsibilities, or clarity of what success looks like. There's leadership styles. Have we actually looked at what our leadership styles are going to need to be, because often they need to change. And sometimes, with leaders, we tend to kind of we can sometimes go, yeah, we're doing all this and we're not changing. We're just asking you to change so it makes leaders accountable and managers accountable for owning it, because it has to come from the top down and also demonstrating the behavior behind it. So these are just some prompt questions, but it's really important. And the other thing, of course, and you'll see in there, is the communications and change management. So again, with technology in particular, you know, technology is the enabler. That's all it is, right? It can be amazing technology. You know, it can be an eye watering amount of money that you're spending on the on the business case, right it, but ultimately, it's the enabler, it's the people and the leadership which is what's going to make the difference. So that's why I have that at the front and center. So communications, change management is fundamentally important. What I would like to suggest, though, is, at the right time, okay, don't preempt. They'll go premature. You know, freaking people out about change that they're not ready for yet. It's how you bring your messages into the organization. And again, we can, you know, and I've been guilty of this in previous lives as well. We fire hose people because we're in the detail. We get it, it's like, or we go, Oh, I've told these people two months ago what's happening. Why are they asking me questions out and I know these things sound very simple, but actually, when you start to unpack it, you realize the impact that that has, and some simple changes will make a big difference. So that's kind of where I start then, and and guys just not just flag me if I'm talking too long as well, because I'm conscious of the time. But, you know, we start to then look at the process. So it's, ultimately, it's process, plan, partnerships and customer are kind of four very important pillars. Then within that, that framework to be addressed. So, of course, process. US, and you guys will be all over this. You know, it's really leaning into right? Let's not digitize dysfunction. Let's not create processes for the sake of process. How can we, you know, create a whole new collaborative way of working for our people, for example, if that's where the focus is, and really understanding what's the impact there. So instead of diving into the detail too quickly, you know, standing up in the balcony and going, right, what are the key processes, the high impact ones, high risk ones, and understanding, okay, right. Well, what, how do we wrap our arms around this to make sure it gets the resource and support and needs? So we really hone in on that also as well. And I'm sure Andy, you'd be smiling at this, you know, this is where the opportunity to start extracting the manual elements, the Excel spreadsheets, the expo, you know, the copies of the Excel spreadsheets, the macro copies,
Andy Olrich 26:01
the three that, yeah, the one that's three years Oh, yeah. I've got a copy from three years ago. Yes, that one, yeah,
Claire Quigley 26:07
because, because people don't trust the data, right? This is where this comes in. A lot people are like, I don't trust, you know, Power BI or I don't trust, whatever it is. No, no, no, no, I've got my data. But of course, we all know what that means or what that results in. So the question here is, yes, the process, but the question here is, how can we also help our people to utilize and adopt what we're trying to do and trust in that? So how do we do that, instead of just expecting them to just go, oh, I'll just drop all my Excel spreadsheets that I've loved for the last 20 odd years of my life, right?
Andy Olrich 26:41
Like a lot of the work that we, we do is around that get fit for digital so cleaning up or confirming the data, maybe their data is right, and what's coming out of the snowflake or the central warehouse is not but, yeah, that's really important. And so many, so many lean into, yeah, this is, this is part of a successful Lean program. What you're saying here, a lot of this. So the plan, you see, there was the next one was planned, right?
Claire Quigley 27:06
Yeah, yeah. So the plan is, again, it's our ability or opportunity more so for leadership to stand back and go, Okay, well, we've got our plan. It often lives at that executor leadership level, and we haven't dropped the plan into the actual what you know, connecting it into, okay, well, what does that mean within the world of the people who are executing on this? So what we do is really tap into the plan. How clear is this? Do people truly understand what that is, what that means. Why are we doing it? And if not, what do we need to do about that? Also, what are the expectations like? Again, we kind of tend to be a little bit lofty in our terminology. So what I focus on here often is, let's get, let's get a little bit more granular in what this is looking like, so people can really capture or, you know, connect with it. And also, one of the things I look at here as well, guys, which is I find so powerful, because often, you know, people will go, Yeah, you know, we've got, these are the stats that we're aiming for in this plan. You know, this is what we want. We don't want X amount of, you know, 20% adoption or utilization, for example. And we want an uplift in revenue, or whatever the scenario is. And I'm a great that's your statistic. What's your signal? What is your signal? And they're like, Oh, what do you mean? And I'm like, Okay, well, if you want to an uplift in the utilization, what's the signal that people are starting to adopt this way of working and adopt this process and adopt this technology, right? Yeah, yeah. How are you going to know when you walk into team? Like, we started this conversation with, how are you going to know there's no number on a board that's telling us this is, you know, crumbling, or this is going really well, but how you what are the signals that you as a leader need to be aware of? And it's amazing how people really lean into that. They're like, Oh, hang on. Okay, well, we're going to see some issues here, or we're going to see people pushing back on this. We're going to see people are still hanging on to those Excel spreadsheets or whatever the scenario is. But it helps the leaders become better leaders in this transformation, because they're now not just looking at the board numbers that there are being presented back up in the Board Papers. They're looking at the people on the ground. Um, how they can support them better as a result?
Andy Olrich 29:25
Yeah, so, so for our Lean Six Sigma geeks out there, so the why measure, yeah, what is that? What is that thing for this specific project or exercise or initiative, that's our canary in the coal mine, and we can quickly see if it's having a positive or negative impact in Billy Ray Taylor says, you can't manage a secret, all right, you can't manage a secret. So sits here. How do we get that? It's a great point for for getting started. Yeah, yeah. Awesome, yeah. And what's
Claire Quigley 29:50
next? Next partnerships. Partnerships are fascinating, particularly in the world of technology, because, again, a lot of organizations, um. Have a dependency in partnerships. Partnerships are much more important. You know, it's very rarely do I see organizations now go, you know, full build internally. It's about creating partnerships so But in saying that this is the reason, though, that this is part of this framework, is that we, again, often, you know, the partnerships, particularly in technology, and where technologies come from, that traditional role in organizations, partnerships kind of just evolve over time, and they just kind of grow, and there's no real management or, you know, questioning around, how will this partnership best serve my organization, and what my project and what we're trying to do, rather than, Oh, these are really good people, and they seem to know the technology very well, so cool. We'll go with them. That's a really good metric, for sure. But if we don't have partners that are aligned with what we're trying to achieve, you know, people in a in an outcome perspective, as opposed to just delivering the technology that can cause some, some headaches. And let me give you an example of that. So I was working with somebody not too long ago, and they had, you know, they were working with a very, you know, we'd all know the organization, the partner that they were, they were looking at working with. But what was happening was they were being, their roadmap was being very heavily influenced by this partner, because this was the technology this partner knew. This is the technology that these guys, you know, basically the partner, of course, and rightly so. If you can't argue with them, they're going, well, you know, we're recommending this because it suits how we work. And ultimately, they want to keep the relationship with the customer right. But I was asking the client, and I just sat down, I was like, Okay, well, is this actually the best decision for you in terms of what you're trying to do, or are you being influenced perhaps a little bit too much by, you know, the what the partner is putting forward in terms of the technology solution? So they went away, and they looked, in the end, ultimately, they did go with that partner, but there was a change in the terms and how they would engage with that partner, and that partner was very much it just shifted the power play a little bit, which was really good. They needed that because it's like, hang on, we've, I've got, we've got to help get this outcome, not we've got to deliver great technology. That's it's a different conversation. So the way I work through this pillar, I guess, is, how can we, how will the partners serve the transformation that's at play here, and what's their role in that, and what's our role? And how do we hold them accountable? Because often, there's a lot of you know, and you still see situations where it's handshakes, believe it or not, you know, with some partners, and that's okay. But is it okay for the transformation? You know, depending, like, if you're putting in a lot of money in a transformation, you know you want, you want a little bit more formality there and clarity. And, you know, more clarity than formality. It's just, this is what we need from you guys. Are you up for it? And that's Yeah. So it's really that way of thinking so, and I guess then of us to step into the customer. The customer is, of course, we absolutely customers. The customers is king, right? Or queen, depending where you're coming from. But again, what I see in, in the transformation readiness play, is there isn't, sometimes an assumption the customer is just gonna love it. They're just gonna love it. Okay, okay, tell me. Tell me more. What we don't think about sometimes is the you're you're asking the customer, perhaps, to change their way of buying from you, or the way of working with you. You might be asking the, you know, there is great, there's way more options and what the customer can now get from you, but does the customer feel a little bit overwhelmed? Have we actually communicated and effectively built in those feedback loops that are quick to, you know, give us back that that feedback, and what are we asking them? You know, so the it's almost, it's interesting. We get so caught up in the technology again, and this is why I put build this way. We get so caught up in the technology, we forget about the hard work, which is right, we need to mobilize our people and are around actually delivering value for the customer again, the technology is the enabler. But when you're dealing with complexity of transformation level, it's easy to kind of forget or get so caught up in one element, you forget something else, or just doesn't get the focus and needs. So that's why this, this pillars in there as well as you know, what are the potential impacts of this transformation from a customer perspective. Okay, well, what's how do we need to manage that? What are the feedback loops we need to put into play? Are we going to maybe do some pilots instead of again? Sometimes we get all excited and just go Big Bang, Let's just embed some pilots in play here and see what that play looks like. And then, from that, maybe. We consider, are we prematurely investing in something that we've assumed the customer is going to love, because we love it and we think it's really valuable, or, in some cases, it's because, simply, we think what we know, if we change this, you know, ultimately, it's going to create a better revenue stream, or more better ongoing revenue stream for us as well. And that's completely fine. That's part of business, right? But we need to consider that. How can we make this a very customer centric transformation in a way that's still uplifting all the internal results as well? So that's why, I guess you know what I'm trying to say here, guys, sorry, I'm on my first coffee. But what I'm trying to say here is we need to have that balance of the internal and the external, but we have to hold both at the same time. So there's certain things you need to think about.
Andy Olrich 35:56
Yeah, yes, solutions, solutions, looking for a problem, and sometimes that doesn't work that well. It's Yeah, where's the customer and lean Absolutely. That's why this is yeah. Spot on.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 36:10
Yeah. Those are five. Now there's two more, two more in your framework, right? Yes.
Claire Quigley 36:17
And these are more. You know, this is, ultimately, it's calling out the tech and data and the innovation. So when we look at the tech and data, this is from the perspective of, okay, well, what's our roadmap, and how is it aligned to this? So when I talk about the roadmap, it's not just the actual, the particular tech that's part of this, this framework, but what else is in flight. So, you know, technology teams, typically, depending on the makeup of the organization, you know, you're going to have the operational tech, or the fundamental, whatever you want to call it, and keeping the lights on, making sure, you know, ERPs, etc, are all working as we need them to, of course. And then of course, you got the product guys as well, right where I look here is, what's the roadmap in what's the complete roadmap? What does that look like? What's in flight? Because often where I see tech and data struggle is they're all at capacity, and sometimes they're over capacity in terms of what they've committed to. Because when you add all the dots, you're like, hang on, those dependencies are really important to this part. And nobody's kind of got up in the balcony and said, Hang on. We need to maybe look at our capacity here. What do we need to drop for a while? Or whatever the scenario is? Again, it's about awareness, so that you can best prepare for the execution, so that there's you're avoiding that whole tension around resource allocation, people allocation. If people are feeling like they're just getting more crap added to their day to day job, you're going to get that pushback. You're going to get that there's going to be people powering ahead, and then there's going to be people are really not, not at the party because they're drowning, because they're at capacity. So this is around, what's our roadmap look like? Chunk that down, and how is it aligned? So alignment is the key one here. So is aligned?
Shayne Daughenbaugh 38:09
So let me, let me talk to this real quick. Yeah, sure. So it sounds like each of these, each of these pillars, or parts of it, can actually influence the others, because maybe we looked at the process, we looked at the plan. We have the plan, but we went through some of this other stuff. We get to the tech and understand, like you mentioned, hey, let's go up and see what do we have in flight already? What are we already working on for our tech team? Well, they're not going to be done for six months. So you're saying we're going to start this plan in three months. That just ain't going to work, because now we're just overwhelming the system, and we're going to get nothing done instead of, you know, a slower rollout or whatnot. So each of these are are like listening to the others and informing the others. Is that what I'm hearing?
Claire Quigley 38:51
Yes, yes, absolutely everything. Everything has to inform everything else, because, and this is what they so if you were to map this out and put it up on a big whiteboard in front of you in the office or in the virtual meeting, or whatever you're going, hang on. There's something in you, I promise you, there's going to be at least one thing they gone, oh, hang on, right? We've, we've created, we haven't seen this big roadblock. Now we had, you know, and sometimes I kind of experienced this first hand where, you know, there were time was bringing consultants prematurely into the into because the company wasn't ready yet. They needed to hold fire, and we changed that. But, yeah, there was definitely a, you know, come to Jesus moment of, Oh, all right, this is not going to work. This is not going to work. Okay, what do we need to change? And that's what this is about. It's like everything needs to be joined up. We need joined up thinking. So that's where technology and business aligns.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 39:44
Yeah, sure. Okay, so now talk to me about innovation, because in my mind, I like pair innovation with technology already, and you are like, Hey, these are separate things, the technology and the innovation explain that just a little bit, and that will be. The framework, right? Like, that's the last pillar,
Claire Quigley 40:02
yeah, yeah. And I love it, you know, so many people and I do this to, you know, we just love the tech and the innovation together. There is an expectation. Sometimes, if I put in this technology, innovation is going to happen, you know, or if I put in this technology, we're going to, you know, accelerate this at the innovation and sometimes it actually can be, you can it can create more friction within the innovation teams. So, I guess the key question here is, is the innovation influencing the technology that the organization needs? Or is technology influencing the innovation, for example? So is technology enabling more innovation to happen? What are you trying to do in your innovation? So, again, this is about informing. So it's like, okay, well, what technology if we in flight? What can we do to what can we leverage from that to increase our horizon? One, two and three roadmap outputs, cool or, Hey, we want to do this for our customers. We've seen, you know, AI, for example, or AR experiences, etc. We want to create this technology team. How can we weave this into how we work in the organization? So, yes, the what we need to look at here is, how does one support the other? They're not, they're not naturally living together. There is sometimes, and when you think of the mindset of tech people, in particular those who live in the in the operational technology world, their job is to keep things safe. Their job is to keep things stable. Their job is to keep the lights on. Their job is to make sure. You know, that's a very different mindset to an innovator who's like, Okay, what's next? What are we what are we doing? So we're trying to marry two very different functions in ways, so we've got to be very aware of that. So the question here is, okay, well, is technology influencing the innovation or vice versa? And are we happy with that? Okay, when we bring it back into that plan, and bring it back into the reason of the transformation, and bring it back transformation, and bring it back into where the organization is going. Are we happy with that, or do we need to change something here? So that's really what I'm talking to there. And, you know, I've heard the cover. I've heard comments before. It's like, well, you know, we've been we've implemented, what was it? Yeah, it was a Microsoft product. I won't say which one, but, you know, they've implemented product, where are my efficiencies? So they were looking at the continuous improvement element, and the leader sitting there going, where's my efficiencies? I don't get it. But what they hadn't looked at was the the innovation that the product itself was not actually aligned to the innovation work the organization was doing. They just made assumptions at the start, and they hadn't put out very clear metrics around what they wanted the innovation team to do. So innovation was like, why are you asking us this question? It's got nothing to do with us, essentially, again, because they hadn't done the preparation work, which is what this framework is around.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 42:58
So what, even though you ended with innovation that in my head, that like takes me back to the very beginning when you talked about purpose, because we're not innovating just for the sake of looking the latest shiny and bright thing, but innovation has to be informed by what is the purpose of everything we're doing. So really appreciate that. I'm going to put this back up on the screen one more time, because here's and sorry Andy, that I'm bogarting the whole conversation here, but, but what I what I really appreciate, especially hearing, hearing you describe this, Claire is, in my mind, wants to have, when you're talking about a framework readiness, or readiness framework, I want to have a 1234567, steps. But the the way you have this out, it's not in a linear way of looking at things. You have something at the top that's overarching, okay, so that's the purpose. But then these other things, you know, maybe we hit leadership and people first, because that's the center. But the rest of it, it seems like, I mean, can you go from trans, the purpose to the people leadership, maybe the plan, maybe the partnership and and vice versa, or is there a particular way that you found that it this needs to be followed?
Claire Quigley 44:16
No, like, that's the power of this. This is about, you know, you literally sitting there and going, right, you know, connect first and foremost with the purpose, and I love that you're asking this question. Thank you. Yes, and that's why
Shayne Daughenbaugh 44:29
I have no numbers. Me crazy, but I can
Claire Quigley 44:32
put numbers in if you want. But ultimately, you know, you could naturally, we just read left to right. Okay, right. So, you know, people often start with the process. But some companies, because they're very customer centric, and they pride themselves on, you know, being, you know, customer first orientated, they'll start with the customer, and they'll work backwards, and it's all led by, okay, well, every organization is unique, you know, in terms of the leadership, in terms of your experiences and your perspective. So you. To hone in on what, what what you're most comfortable with, or what you're excited about, first and foremost, and then fan out from that. But as you pointed out, everything's listening to everything else, everything's informing everything else. None of these can really operate in isolation, and that's why, I guess I've put it in this, I've designed it in this way is that it's about, how can we hold all of these things at the same time? Because that's, that's the challenge and the magic, right? It's not linear. We can't go right. We'll fix our process, then we'll go into the plan, then we'll go into we can't, we can't do that. That's, that's not a way. So, you know, the first thing is to go right. Hang on, let's map this out. How ready are we? What's it going to take to actually do this? This framework helps you stand back and really figure that out and then and understand the impact if you decide, okay, well, we're not going to do this. Okay. Well, what's the opportunity cost of that? For example, yeah, so we'll there's no linear approach. It's about you sitting as a leader, and I have a piece in there as well as how to use it if you want to just, you know, do a session with your team and start for some questions. It is a pragmatic and strategic tool at the right time. That's the that's the thought process behind it. Let's, let's, let's do it at an important juncture point where we're about to kick off. You know, if we realize we're running a marathon, and we've only done a couple of 10 Ks in the last month, we know we need to hold hold fire. You know, get it, get a little bit fitter, and then, you know, lean into this more. And it's not that you're stopping, it's just that you're preparing better. So when you hit the ground running, you've got focus, and you've got speed, rather than tripping yourself up because you haven't asked those questions at the start.
Andy Olrich 46:49
Yeah, and the importance in that title of, it's a readiness framework, right? And then, and then we get into execution. And that's really, for me, I think think of some of the analogies was like sharpening the saw. So yeah, that that analogy that gets used, if I had five hours to cut a tree down and my life depended on it, I'd spend the first four hours sharpening the saw, and it's like, yeah, because you've when you execute, you have to deliver. And the leaders, or whoever's there, is expecting that that to happen, instead of just hacking away. And it's been a, yeah, it's been a fascinating chat. So Shane, if you got any final questions or comments for Claire,
Shayne Daughenbaugh 47:30
I mean, I when you
Shayne Daughenbaugh 47:35
as our listening audience, was like hearing this and trying to absorb all of this, and I don't know if they were able to because this is intense. This is like in depth. I love what I'm seeing here, even though it's not numbered, but that's okay. I have my flaws.
Claire Quigley 47:48
What? What do you
Shayne Daughenbaugh 47:53
what do you find leaders have the hardest time seeing the gap and where, where, does, where do the wheels fall off in this conversation? You know, as they're trying, trying to, I'm just thinking about our listening audience, or, you know what viewing audience in, and then thinking about, if I did something like this, something akin to this, where there's using some kind of a readiness framework, if I want to make sure I'm ready, what can I be aware of where we might step right in it, or, you know, walk right past whatever we really need. That that's super important to this,
Claire Quigley 48:30
um, I would suggest, so, I think I talked about a little bit at the start where, like, we get very excited about the technology and the possibilities, you know, we've, got these beautiful PowerPoint presentations that are told, you know, showing us what we're doing in the next three to five years and where things can potentially fall over before they start, is back with your people in leadership. You know, no one's surprised, but everyone's surprised, right? It's like, Oh, really. But a statement I hear a bit is people, you know, and we've all heard it, you know, people just need to get on the bus. This is where we're going. I'm okay. Have you given them a ticket to get on the bus? Have you told them what bus stop they're getting on? Because we don't want everyone on at the start. And they're like, What do you mean? And I'll say, Well, you think about what you're asking here. So it could be, I'm asking you to work in an entirely different way with a new system and etc, and you're just asking people. You're telling people to get on the bus like, well, we need to chunk that down and help people to do that, because otherwise you're stepping in on the minefield of employee turnover. Because people will just start to go, Yeah, this. I can't I don't want to be here. I'm gonna
Shayne Daughenbaugh 49:42
go sabotage, right?
Claire Quigley 49:44
And research is showing us, and there's actually been some really interesting research chain around I think it was, I can find it and send it through, but it's something like 39% of projects, AI projects have demonstrated internal sabotage. So people have admitted to. Actively sabotaging AI projects internally. And what's really interesting is a lot of the younger generation, not the olders, the people you would have assumed older people are like, Oh, it's going to take my job. No, it's actually younger people. It's really interesting because they're feeling overwhelmed and they haven't been given the bus ticket, ultimately, to jump on the bus as a transformation, of what that's looking like for their org. So that's where it often falls over. The other thing is the customer, the feedback loops are not tight enough, and they're not the aligned, met, the meaningful metrics. So you know, when I talked about the signals versus stats or not versus sorry, and we need to be very, very mindful of what are our signals that this is working as leaders, that we will know when we walk into any environment in our organization, we'll know Japanese leaders are very good at this. Japanese leaders, as of course, you would know in the Lean world, they're very, very good at sensing the energy, sensing what's happening, looking beyond just the stats on the board. And yeah, I've, you know, obviously I haven't worked at Canon Australia. I experienced that firsthand as
Andy Olrich 51:08
well. Yeah, I love data, but, but I prefer the facts. And yeah, yeah, there. And bringing going into the customs world. This is, as I said, this has been a great conversation. Claire, thank you so much for coming along. Well, this is what it's all about, right? We come here to listen, to learn purpose and pause this and come back if that's how they're feeling. But I doubt that. But anyway, they probably pause me, who knows that?
Shayne Daughenbaugh 51:35
Will you just give them a master class in one of your bread and butter things you do? So it was fantastic.
Andy Olrich 51:41
And yeah, and sharing that with us, we really appreciate it. So there's, there's obviously lots more to learn. How can people get in touch with you?
Claire Quigley 51:48
Claire, oh so good. On LinkedIn, I guess is probably a starting point if they want to connect with me on that so, and I think the link is going to go in to this as well, but LinkedIn, maybe have a look at my website. I, you know, I, you can get a flavor for what I do and how I do it there as well. Tech team whisperer, calm and, yes, it's probably the first starting point. Just reach out. And I'm a person, you know, I love talking to people, helping them kind of figure out what they want to do. So there's opportunities there, I think, on my website to book in a phone call with me if people are interested to learn more, maybe talk to a specific project they're about to start, or they're in and realizing they need to, maybe they're on that marathon path, and realize that they might need to, you know, get a little bit fitter. I'm more I'd love to have a conversation and see if, if I can help them shed any light on some things as well. So yes, that's probably the two best things. LinkedIn website will be the best part of starting points. And I'm happy to talk to people in the US, no problem.
Andy Olrich 52:54
And I am now. We are now. So yeah, hello.
Claire Quigley 53:01
And they even wear bluey shirts. It's great.
Andy Olrich 53:04
Shane gets the three points today for this best shirt. Sorry. Hey guys, thanks very much for tuning in, and we'll catch you next time with another fantastic guest. But thanks again, Claire, and we'll see you all next time.
Claire Quigley 53:19
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Guys, thank you.
Shayne Daughenbaugh 53:22
Have a great day, everybody.
Unknown Speaker 53:23
You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai