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Analog-ish is a weekly interview podcast for people who are tired of being optimized. Hosted by feminist coach Becky Mollenkamp, who believes slowing down is a radical act, each episode features conversations with thinkers, makers, and everyday radicals who are finding their way back to something slower, more intentional, and more human.
We're not here to tell you to smash your phone or go off the grid. We're here to ask better questions about the role technology plays in your life — and to explore practical low-tech ideas that give you more agency over the answer. From reclaiming rest to building real-life community, from protecting your attention to finding unmonetized joy, these conversations are honest, curious, and refreshingly free of hustle culture.
If you're burned out from being constantly online and hungry for a different way forward, this show is for you.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:00)
I am really thrilled today to be joined by Brene Achele, who is a mindfulness facilitator, AI practitioner, and digital strategist who turns Wi-Fi signals into creative revolutions. That just sounds wonderful. Author of Aligned, Not Automated and host of the Fabulous Fuckery podcast, perfect name. She helps soft hustlers align with purpose, integrate AI with intention and protect.
their creative flame. And I wanted to have you here, Bree, because that feels so perfect for what I want to talk about with the show, which is this show is not meant to shame, blame, guilt people into saying you need to not use technology. I don't think that's realistic. I don't even know that that's helpful, right? Technology can serve a point. But also, how do we still feel aligned, human, calm, peaceful, happy, joy?
all of those things while using these tools so they don't take over. So thank you for being here.
Bree Nachelle (00:54)
Thank you for having me, congratulations.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (00:57)
Thank you. And hearing that, what's the first thing that comes up for you when you think about that idea of technology serving us versus technology sort of taking over for us?
Bree Nachelle (01:09)
Technology serving us means we should have more time to be analog, which is why I love the name of your podcast. The time you save from using your tool like a tool.
should save you enough time to do something fun. Go make a candle, go touch grass, go look out of a window. You should be able to navel gaze. I believe that these tools are our employees and we are not its employees. And we need to work on what that balance looks like. Everybody wanted work-life balance for so long. Now we have the technology to do so.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (01:41)
Yes. Well, first of all, I just want to quickly say I bought touchfuckinggrass.com for this website, for this podcast. So that's very exciting because yes, we just need to touch some fucking grass, right? But technology offers the promise of us being able to work less. And inside capitalism, what happens instead is the expectation that we should use technology to help us to work more.
And is that the fundamental tension that creates the problem that you see?
Bree Nachelle (02:08)
Yes, and that's actually where the book came from. So we're using these AI tools, these productivity tools, and everyone I know is burned out. So...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (02:17)
Yes!
Bree Nachelle (02:19)
Everyone's tired, everyone's like, oh I did these 75 things today. And I'm like, well how do you feel? And they're like, I'm exhausted. Well you shouldn't be exhausted. If you have animated employees, everybody's like, oh I got these AI agent, I hired five AI agent employees. Well if you have to go behind them and double check all the work all the time, you have given yourself another low level position. So did you really hire five AI employees or did you stress yourself out more because
They're all spitting out junk. So I say do a couple of things you can automate really, really simply and see how that works for you before you move into this lifestyle of I've automated and now I've written 17 books this year. It's like, dude, what?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (03:03)
Right, we're automating ourselves too within an inch of our lives, and it's not particularly helpful.
Bree Nachelle (03:07)
It sounds like
fun. It sounds like fun. I would love to be like, but also it's all this productivity bringing you income or you just spinning your wheels. What's the outcome of this?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (03:16)
Ooh, Brie,
I feel like you're calling me out a little bit today. ⁓ True. But you mentioned automating. yet the book that you mentioned that you wrote is called Aligned, Not Automated. So what does that look like then? What does alignment versus automation mean to you when you think of those differences?
Bree Nachelle (03:20)
you
So automation of course is the process of taking your workflows and putting it on, you know, a button. It just generates automatically. But are you doing it from a place of purpose? Or are you just doing it just to do it? So for me, I say aligned and not automated because my life has become a line.
and through my self alignment and my happiness and using my breath framework and doing all of these things on a day to day basis before and checking in with myself.
can now automate because it's coming from a place of alignment and purpose. So now I've created these workflows because I know what they're for. I didn't just wake up one day, get on threads, see someone wrote a thread about using Claude to make a Spotify playlist. does this Spotify playlist serve a purpose in my life before I create have an agent make play. Someone made an agent that makes playlists yesterday. I was on threads and I'm like, that's cool if you're a DJ, but I'm just
a lady in the house, I'm not too important that I can't make a YouTube freaking playlist for cleaning my house. It's just, we're automating things that really aren't helping us. Are the things you're doing making your life or someone else's life better?
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (04:43)
Yeah.
Well, and it's because it's, I think some of that is it's new for most of us. It's interesting, it's fun. It offers all these creative outlets that we didn't think about before. But the piece that I'm hearing you say is there's not a lot of intentionality and mindfulness being brought into the experience for a lot of people.
Bree Nachelle (05:04)
For a lot of people, think about when social media first started. And it was cool, because you could talk to your cousin in Alaska that you never see, and yay. And then companies said, we can make money with this. And AI and social media and everything became part of this ecosystem that didn't become fun anymore.
It's not fun anymore. I don't want to be on Facebook. I don't want to be on threads, but I have to be. So it's, you know, with AI, we're going to get to a point where that shiny new toy is going to start to wear off on everyone. That new car smell is starting to, you know, people like Claude took away some major features the other day. What are you paying $200 a month for if I'm not getting that? That new car smell is starting to dissipate.
and we have to really figure out what role this has in their lives moving forward.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (05:52)
Yeah, well, let's back up just a little bit because that's where I would like to go is talking about the role that it can play and how you're using it, how other people maybe want to start to think about their relationship with it. But before that, your background is as a digital strategist with NASA and you do a lot. I mean, your work, it is not like you are a Luddite. You are a tech person, right? You love tech, you use tech. So how has your relationship with tech evolved over the years to reflect
Bree Nachelle (06:07)
Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (06:19)
kind of where you're at now with this idea of alignment and not just automation.
Bree Nachelle (06:23)
So I am a zennial, so I'm that Gen X millennial baby. I was told, you know, climb the corporate ladder, be a VP by 40, da da da da da, you know, I'm like doing all the things, working up the government ladder.
the brand managers for NASA social media platforms, did that for many years, and I burnt out. I wasn't sleeping, wasn't eating, working from home, crying at my desk because I had a lot of things, a lot of big feelings I couldn't communicate because success is the end goal. People don't care about you as a whole person. That's your responsibility. Success is your end goal. And in doing that, I recognized that I was doing too much.
What was I doing it for? Was I getting joy out of this? Sometimes on the weekends, I didn't even go do anything fun, because I just slept all day. So my body was trying to heal itself in those 48 hours of freedom that you sell, that you get after you sell your life for capitalism. And one day I just woke up, I had a mini stroke in 20, yeah, I had a mini stroke in 2024.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (07:32)
Can I ask how old you were at time? Can I ask how old you were at the time?
Bree Nachelle (07:34)
I was ⁓
43.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (07:39)
Yeah, and I only say that because I know you're clearly not 80. And I think too often we think these things happen to people that are much older. And this is part of what happens when we are caught up in that capitalist machine and not caring for ourselves. It can happen.
Bree Nachelle (07:43)
No!
And that's the thing, I was stressed out, my blood pressure was blah blah blah blah blah, and I was doing too much. And so my alignment journey had already began and I was fighting what I was learning as a certified mindfulness practitioner. And I'm teaching all these classes and...
I burnt myself out. So I did a hard reset once I was able to get myself together and I really incorporated mindfulness in being offline into my healing process. And I leaned heavily on these AI tools to fill in the gap for me because it was a cognitive gap because my brain wasn't working 100 % yet. I'm still processing how to, you know, I going through physical therapy. I'm trying to regain my sense of self again because my body fails.
right? So AI has helped to fill in that cognitive gap that I was missing. Checking all these emails, forgetting to change the water filter in the Brita. You know, weird things like that. I really relied heavily on my digital tools to fill in those gaps for me and it's okay to do that when you're suffering. Grain fog, ADHD, perimenopause, everything happening all at once.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (09:04)
Ding ding ding! I'm like, check, check, check, I have all of those!
Bree Nachelle (09:06)
Right.
It brought everything to the surface, everything to the surface quickly. And it's like, okay, you know what, we need to fix this and we don't have a lot of downtime.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (09:10)
Yeah.
Well, so I understand very well the harms of generative AI in the many ways that it is harmful. And so like there's this big and for me, and as a neurodivergent person, also suffering with paramedicopausal brain fog, I also see this opportunity of having a tool that I can actually have.
tell it how to function like my brain functions. Other tools I've tried in the past were built, I can tell, by people whose brains don't operate the way mine operate. And they've never worked well for me. This is the first time in my life where I suddenly feel like I have access to creating a tool that actually works the way my brain works. It feels revolutionary. It has been a game changer. And I also feel really bad because I do know that technology's not great. So I think that's part of the premise for me with the show is
How do I find that place where I can honor that these tools can serve a purpose and not let myself fall down the rabbit hole that I think the tools are designed to make us do, which is to become dependent, to start using them in ways that we don't really need to be using them, right? And then eventually, and I think probably not too far in the future, to charge us off the nose for all those things that we've now become dependent upon. So I'm curious, as you've been working with that, you're smiling, so I'm assuming.
you've been dealing or thinking about these same things.
Bree Nachelle (10:36)
So to learn how much water is used, to learn that we're losing farmland potentially to replace with data centers is just frightening because this is against every science fiction book I've ever read, any Afrofuturism book I've ever read. We are there. Right, and so we're here and it's frightening. And then at the same time...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (10:54)
Well, it's the premise of every, yeah, exactly.
Bree Nachelle (11:02)
we have to learn the technology to stay relevant.
So we have this ugly place where I always explain to people, need to learn how to turn the Terminator off. I need to learn how to program how so I can help protect or help reduce some of the harms that are done by AI. At the same time, it's my responsibility to write my congresspeople and make sure that I'm telling them, hey, this tool is really cool. It benefits my life in these ways. But I also want my grandchildren to have clean drinking water.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (11:34)
I didn't bring you on to be an AI ethicist per se, Because I know that's not what your role is. However, I do think it's interesting to have these conversations because I can tell that you've also been thinking about these things. Because I think you are fine example of the fact that the system hasn't been working for people for a very long time, right? Capitalism is not a system designed for human care. And you experienced that firsthand and quite acutely.
with your burnout, with having a mini stroke, with having to say my health is being affected here. And what we've seen in this AI boom is just in the last year, the number of black women who are losing work because the first folks to go are those who hold the most marginalized identities. there's this tension of capitalism isn't designed for our health and care. If there are tools that we can use that help us tend to ourselves better, do our work better, stay.
relevant and able to be finding work in an environment that doesn't, you that's trying to put us out of work. All of that seems important. And this other stuff. So I'm curious, just as a black woman and as somebody who has been burned out, has been harmed by toxic capitalism, you know, it sounds like where your landing is, I need to these tools to my benefit. But what are the ways that you're sort of putting guardrails for yourself to not develop dependency and all of that?
Bree Nachelle (12:28)
Yes.
My guardrails are ⁓ my analog time. I read a lot and I didn't realize how dependent I was on my Kindle until it died.
So I said, you know what just go buy I went and got a used junk Kindle for like 20 bucks from somewhere But I'm gonna make an effort to buy more used books. So Almost every book I buy is from a used bookstore Salvation Army Goodwill just to make sure that I'm helping you know what I mean like but you know as you're talking about It's just so many factors and so many things that lean into
what's happening and it's emotional, which is where a lot of the mindfulness work that I'm doing falls into that. And you know, those guard whales are making sure I'm logging off, making sure I'm reading, making sure, what is it, what is this output that came here? Did you read it? I print it out. I mark it up. I'm like, I didn't write this. This sounds crazy. What is this? I even go back and I audit my credit usage.
And I'm like, what did this, how many credits did this piece of junk use? And I audit my credit usage on a weekly basis to see what was, yes, for my AI tools to make sure that, is this tool useful or was I wasting time being cool? One other thing I will share is that I actually am using AI to monitor weather changes. I suffer from migraines.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (13:56)
For AI.
Bree Nachelle (14:10)
My migraines are shifted by pressure changes bariatric pressure changes humidity changes So what I have a tool that emails me now or text me hey It's about to be a pressure drop of this a certain number of inches per mercury and that affects me and now I can go take my meds faster and Then I save productivity. I used to be down for a day and a half every time I had a migraine so now
these particular tools help me to kind of recalibrate and stop wasting sick days because I can actually function. I don't know, I'm sitting here, Becky, like it's so many pieces of.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (14:43)
Mm-hmm.
There
are, and that's why this, don't think this is easy and why I call this analog-ish because I do think we have to explore the ish part. I think it's really easy for some folks that we see and no shade to those people who are very deeply concerned. I am too, but to say that we should not use these tools at all, that feels, it's very challenging, right?
Bree Nachelle (15:03)
I sorry.
So I
have a balance. So what I figured is that most of the things I'm asking these tools to do, I can do with my eyes closed. I'm just using it to save time because I can now use my time to develop.
something stronger, finish my book, finish these other projects I'm working on. So yes, you may have gotten an automated email confirming some information from me, but that agent is sharing, saving me time because, for example, it takes 23 minutes for your brain to reset in between tasks. So when you're switching tabs and you're like, I can multitask, most of us can't multitask.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (15:46)
So studies
have been pretty clear that we don't multitask well. We think we do, but we don't.
Bree Nachelle (15:48)
And so you know, it's like,
I'm in Google Docs. now I'm in this. Now I'm in that. Now I'm in this. And then you're like, holy shit, what did I just, what was I, what did I do? So then next week, it's like Squirrel and now I'm on Nordstrom Rack buying shoes. So it's how can we keep our brains operating? I still do Sudoku. I still do, I play Monjong every day.
What can you do to keep your brain strong so you're not losing your comprehension skills due to AI? Because that's a huge gap. People, you know, we're going to be smooth brained really soon if we keep relying on these computers to do our work for us. test it, you know, I test myself. Do I agree with this? Have I written this? Where did it find this in the Google Doc? And I'm like, find source. I'm like, I did write that. It didn't hallucinate.
You know, it's really important to fact check yourself in addition to expecting this computer to do it for you because they hallucinate. These models are not perfect. you'll come up, mean, people are finding that they have stolen books that have been published because the AI tools generated based on something someone else used to train an LLM. You really have to be careful.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (16:55)
Yeah, well, for the people, when you hear people who are saying that sort of, we need to just be off of these tools, I hear you saying something along the lines of we, if we're not careful, we'll be left behind. We need to know how to these tools and all of that. And some people say, well, the better solution is just don't use them. So then we don't have to worry about being left behind. I just kind of wonder what's your reaction when you hear folks talking like that.
Bree Nachelle (17:16)
So for generations, we've always had people who did not want to adapt to the new technology. People didn't want iPhones. People didn't want computers in their homes. So there's always been some pushback to technology over the years. So I see it a little bit of, yes, I understand your desire not to want to learn this new technology because it is problematic.
environmentally more of 3Me than anything else, but at the same time...
I don't know how I lived without a laptop. Like, what do you mean I grew up in my house and we didn't have computers? You know, but we also, the soft skill of going to the library and going to the card catalog, they don't even use dual decimal sense anymore. Like, what do you mean the Dewey Decimal System is gone and I can buy a card catalog? I used to type those cards at the library as a kid, so I'm very hurt. But at the same time, we have to learn new ways to survive.
And if we're not gonna learn the new skills, that's okay, but are you okay not being able to move forward technology-wise because you've chosen not to learn it at all? I say at least be able to dip your toe in it, have a cocktail conversation about it, and then really decide if you hate it. Now as far as art is concerned and these AI event flyers that's floating all over my timeline, they can all go.
Um, AI art is just not okay. Like, I played around with it in the beginning because that's how I started to learn LLMs, but I think they're modeled off of people's creative visions, and that's stealing. So, you know, we had the ethical concerns of what is it doing, how is it hurting people. Most of the people I hear that are very upset about AI are artists. So...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (18:57)
Yeah, with good
reason, right? And I understand that completely. I hear some of the ways that you're, the areas where you don't feel like AI needs to be supported or used. How, you've mentioned a few things about where you're using it, but like what are the things that it's been most helpful for you that you feel like it's meeting that model of alignment versus like automation or using automation to feel alive?
Bree Nachelle (19:19)
Email. It has helped so much. I get a recap every morning. Here are your emails you need to respond to. Here are the...
Here's your itinerary for today. And yes, in the olden days of five years ago, you would just go into your Outlook calendar and write it down. But when you're on the go and I managed five email accounts, so it's just very helpful for me in my use case to have all this information going. So it's like, don't forget you have a call with Becky. Hey, Becky just messaged you a new link. So your link is right there. I'm like, thank you, Zo. I use a system called Zo Computer.
where everything is housed for me inside. So I have all my automations, it checks my emails, it's searching for grants for me, it searches for speaking engagements, little queries that would have technically years ago just been a Google query that emailed to you every day. So now I have my customized query that saves me a little bit of time as well.
Also it checks for my kids. Hey, it's been this amount of days since your son has asked for money or whatever it may be. It's like, do you know? And I'm like, you know what? You're right. Let me check on him. have a kid in college right now. So it's like, hey, you haven't asked for anything in a while. Let me check in on you, see what that bank account looks like. But it's just the reminders.
It's almost like having a personal assistant. It has given me back many many hours per day just in the saving of That load that mental load on a day-to-day basis
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (20:46)
Well, and the mental load is something that I think is so important and doesn't get talked about enough because in this world that we live in, the folks who tend to take up the mantle of care for environment, for humanity are women, right? And so it's often women that I see who are the loudest champions against AI. And I understand that, right? Because we are the ones who tend to be the people who are caring.
designated these caregiver roles, we learn them, we get conditioned into them and it shows up. And I don't think that's wrong that we care about the environment, but it is interesting when you look at the people who are fighting the most, a lot of the most vocal opponents are women. And interestingly, we are also the ones because of the conditioning around caregiving, the ones who tend to have, and Simon, tend to leave, the evidence is very clear, that we carry a much higher mental load. And...
physical load of labor, the labor in homes and in caregiving and, you know, home care and all of it, right? Women are carrying that load. So we are advocating against tools that could help us with that load. And I don't think that we can overlook the possibility of the way that helps the system maintain itself. Now, again, I'm I'm this is all new and it's murky and these ethical questions are challenging.
Bree Nachelle (22:00)
It's so murky.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (22:01)
Right, but
it is interesting to notice that as women are the ones who are fighting and tend to be more likely to reject this technology, the very tools that could potentially help with some of this load that we carry, we aren't then using for ourselves. And that's only keeping the system in place that keeps women from being able to advance in careers, earn more money, you know, all those things that we need.
Bree Nachelle (22:23)
And also, so, and when you say that, think of it also as a skills deficit. Because having to manage, we, you know, we got elders that need to be cared for, as well as children. Of course, I'm not putting all of my personal information, they don't have my social security number and all that in there. But there's a point where you just need a help. And the tools that I downloaded from my iPhone helped to a certain extent. But now I actually have...
an active reminder reminding me there's a recap I get a monthly recap of everything I did over the course of a month all the emails and appointments and meetings who has time to do that on yeah I do a lot of like sit down with my I still have a paper planner and all of that but to sit down and say wow I attended this many doctor's appointments or
engaged in this much conversation about housing or whatever you're doing to have an extra set of hands is so important. I think of all the women who post about their incompetent husbands and you know I think today's one was a woman who told her husband I'm having oral surgery I need you to sit for me while I'm in surgery and he planned an appointment on top of the appointment that she made in advance and
I feel like with tools and technology, we can get to a point where it's like, I see, I'm looking at your calendar right here. Like, you know, we're overlapping here. What are you doing? Even if you just took a simple Outlook calendar and everyone overlaps their Gmail calendar, use Notion Mail, whatever you want to use, it doesn't necessarily have to be AI. But I'm saying consider the use of technology to improve. Right.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (23:53)
Yeah, and this isn't only about AI. This is also just
generally about this more high tech world that we live in and the ways that these tools are showing up in our lives.
Bree Nachelle (24:02)
Yes, absolutely. just realizing that sometimes using that extra step, technology has just saved my life so many times. I know I'm an early adopter, but eventually these things are going to be useful. And if it doesn't, like the way of the Walkman, we loved it for a period of time and then it disappeared and now it's popping up.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (24:21)
replaced by something
they didn't skip every time you walked.
Bree Nachelle (24:24)
Right, and now they're starting to come back. Maxell just rolled out new Walkmans for the new century. So, you know, everything ebbs and flows.
AI may not even exist in this capacity in two years, five years, ten years. But at the same time, it's going to be implemented and its fingerprints are going to be throughout a lot of the software and tools and doctors appointments and everything we're doing moving forward. We at least need to have enough education on how it is successful and how it is not successful for you to say it from an educated point of view versus something you heard on the internet.
just look at it yourself and see if it's a good fit. If it's not cool, I'm not trying to get you to drink the Kool-Aid, but consider that it's an additional tool that can save you time, energy, effort.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (25:12)
Yeah, and what has it done for you as far as you said it's given, saved me a lot of time. Are you able to quantify that? Are you noticing that? Like, yeah, tell us about that because I know you're saying you're using some of that time for reading and other analog kind of activities. Sometimes it's easy to think these tools though are giving us time back when we actually, if we're not really tracking it or looking at it, they haven't bought us back anytime. They've just made us more productive, which isn't really the point.
Bree Nachelle (25:20)
Yes.
So I will completely admit that when I started using these tools, I became overclocked. I was doing all of the things. It's like, ooh, let me put out more blog posts. Let me go on more podcasts. Like I was like, ooh, I got so much more time for activities. And then it was like, you're spinning your wheels. You're not making more money.
you're spending time away from family and friends, you have not been to a art museum in 30 days. Like, it's one of those things, like, I was a artist way early, so I'd at try to go to the art museums and touch a piece of art every couple, two weeks or so. So, for me, I can safely say that I am no longer working until midnight. My day promptly ends at 8 p.m., which I know is still late, but I do a lot of things on the west coast. So, you know, I'm done by eight o'clock.
I don't take any meetings on Fridays anymore. I don't take any meetings on Saturday anymore unless it's absolute emergency. Those days have clearly cleared up for me. On Sundays, no more emergency prep sessions, freaking out about having a case of the Mondays. I don't know if you've ever logged on in the mail tonight, because it's like, holy crap, did I forget to do that thing or write that presentation.
My mental load is actually clearer, where I'm not having the panic attacks that I was having because I know I've done my shit before it needed to. Like, I am confident now. Bri, you're logging off at eight o'clock. Your presentation's already drafted. Here are all your transcribed meeting notes from the last day. And then on Fridays, because I don't have any meetings, I can go through all of those materials, prep for the next week, and then go color.
or go drinking with some friends. You know what I mean? right, so what I can say is that I can certainly tell you that my weekends have been for joy and pleasure. In the evening, I'm getting to watch Scrubs on Hulu when it airs at eight o'clock. Like, I get to watch live TV. These are the ways that I can measure that I'm getting back to the gym.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (27:14)
Yeah. Be human.
Bree Nachelle (27:34)
I lost, you know, I'm losing weight because, you can take time because you've already done the things. It's about better time management for me. It's about, it's not about productivity. I don't need to take on more tasks and more contracts. Am I optimizing the time that I have? And that's what I'm doing right now.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (27:41)
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, the conditioning that we have in capitalism is so strong and so toxic that it does start to feel like it's about being more productive for many of us. Like we get caught up in that, I got to be more productive, I got to be more productive versus truly about can I find that, I hate the word balance, or that harmony between this part of my life that like pays the bills and then I, and that we may also find joy in, but also the like touching fucking grass, the part of life that's human.
And what I've noticed, Bri, is something you mentioned. So I'm very interested to just explore it, dig in a little bit more on it, which is that part of when you start using these tools, I have a feeling I'm just a little bit behind you, lagging behind you on the journey. And it's interesting because I lately have gotten to now I've built out some systems that work so well for my brain and it's amazing. And what used to be a constant tornado of thoughts and worry and did I get that done and what else do I need to do and what am I forgetting about and all of that all the time?
Bree Nachelle (28:23)
Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (28:47)
Interrupting sleep, interrupt all the time. Now I notice because it's not there, my brain's trying to like create it almost. And like, I can't seem to, I'm trying to learn how to just sit and allow myself to say, it's good. It's handled, it's okay. And I can now use this time to rest, but it's just so interesting how that conditioning still shows up and wants you to worry.
Bree Nachelle (28:47)
Mm-hmm.
And so with anxiety, and I've had to deal with that too, I physically write out my notes at the end of the day. I still have a notebook, I still write my notes out, and my brain has now been triggered because it's like, ⁓ she's wrapping things up. We can go lay down. You know, it's that action of, crap, she's showing me she's done something. What do you do? So yes, no, I get exactly what you're about. That wrap up.
You didn't remember, you forgot this thing. And I was like, oh, she's writing it out. Here's our agenda for tomorrow. This is our thing. I still manually write those things out every day because when I just, I'm a stationary girly, writing things make me feel happy. And to know that I get time to make my brain relax through that exercise of journaling, it just helps.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (29:59)
Yeah, it's just so interesting to watch the conditioning in real time as you're trying to shift out of it. And these tools that they can help. But if we're not careful that that conditioning shows up and starts to trigger us to want to be like, well, now I have this time and I really should probably be doing this. What am I forgetting? What else could I be doing? What more is there? Instead of allowing ourselves to just sit in that discomfort and say, nope, it's OK. This was enough.
Bree Nachelle (30:23)
And so the joy of missing out is real. I am starting to experience it. It took me probably two years to start to realize that I don't have to be overly productive all the time.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (30:26)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Bree Nachelle (30:37)
It took me two years. I'll be completely honest with you. My nervous, when you realize your nervous system is fried, your brain is fried. We have been living in historically terrible times. Your body is like, what is happening? What is next? And you have to sit and give yourself a chance to say, I'm okay.
Nothing bad's about to happen if you don't if you turn this computer off and go eat a cookie You're not gonna die and it takes your body a little while to heal enough to say holy crap I do like cookies like I didn't know what my favorite snack food was because I used to just eat anything Because I was just shoving things my mouth because I was afraid to move from my computer because what fresh hell
is gonna happen when I get up to pee. And you know, it's like you go to the bathroom, you come back and you're like, God, more emails. And that's a horrible way to live your life.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (31:28)
It is, and I think so many of us can relate to it. And I think there may be some of that hesitancy around AI and other tech tools. And I think some of the hesitancy, again, all the ethical concerns absolutely justified in writing. But I also think there's this part of it that I think some of us just feel in our bones of like, don't want to do another tool. I don't want more technology. I don't want more of this because it feels like it's just.
The expectation then becomes that we have to be even more like machines, get even more done. And I think the joy of what I hope this episode is about for people is that permission slip to say, the tool is meant to serve you and buy back some of that freedom, buy back some of that time, instead of allowing ourselves to let these tools just make us feel like participate even deeper into capitalism.
Bree Nachelle (32:16)
And also to piggyback off of that, being, what is it, analysis paralysis. There too many tools. It's too many platforms. Everything does something different. It's okay to do your research and vet. I'm not a Claude girlie. I know a lot of people love Claude. Claude is not for me, and that is okay. But at the same time, it's okay to say, you know what, I don't need any of this shit. I don't want nothing to do with any of it.
Stick with your, like, I will work with people, I'm like, listen, you don't want to do an AI workflow, I got you, let's do a Trello board flow. But also realize that using parts of those tools, there is AI involved. You may not like it, but a lot of these workflows are going to be AI based moving forward. So it's better to be able to say, let me know how to control my language model versus them doing it for me, which is what's happening in a lot of the software, especially like Copilot. But it...
It's okay to say I don't want to do these things, but just have the awareness of this is what's possible is very helpful. It's so helpful.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (33:13)
Yeah. think,
and I think it's the invitation back to the intention and alignment piece of the invitation to say, I don't want to do these things, but doing that from an informed place and understanding that there are tools that can help you actually live a fuller life, a more humane and human life, if we can use those tools in the way we want with our value sets around them instead of capitalism.
you falling into the capitalism trap of they must be used to make you even more productive.
Bree Nachelle (33:44)
And absolutely. then also there's security and safety concerns. So, you know, there are AI tools you can download to your desktop that work off of your desktop only. And it's not pumping out into other language models. So, you know, it's different ways to work around a lot of the concerns that people have. But it's a lot of homework. And I feel like when our brains are already over-processing...
It's one more thing to learn. So if you don't have the time, follow me. I'll help you figure things out. And you know, it's like, I...
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (34:15)
Well, I love that,
Bri, because honestly, that's been one of my things too. I and sometimes I'm like, it because I'm getting old? I sound like an old buddy, buddy, when I'm like, and I want to learn another tool because it does get exhausting after a while. You're like, it's just nonstop new tools. So Bri, that's a great place for us to wrap up because tell people where can they learn more about you and learn from you.
Bree Nachelle (34:20)
Mm-hmm.
Well, you can follow me on any social media platform at baronessbree.com, because I'm a baroness. ⁓ my email, mean, but my website is baronessbree.com. You can find me Breena Nachelle anywhere. Just literally type it in and I'm gonna pop up for you.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (34:40)
Your royalty.
the bulk of your work is around how do we help people use tools to make their lives work for them?
Bree Nachelle (34:56)
Let's just figure out a workflow. Let's figure out what the systems are. So many of us have no system.
And we're drowning because we're still doing things the old way. And when I say the old way, I've walked into someone's house and they still have their letters and their letter thing and this is open and this is not opened and there's no filing process. So I am trying to just get her into a digital filing place. So there's ways to do things without stressing out and it's okay to consider new ideas to make your current ideas more beneficial.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (35:28)
and especially for women, most especially for women of color, being able to reduce some of the burden that is placed on our shoulders is really important.
Bree Nachelle (35:37)
It's extremely important and people don't understand that we're tired. We're tired. We wake up tired, we go to bed tired and you know.
You're expecting me to arrange protests and help figure out if your kids can pass this test. You know, like I do a lot of mom things, I do a lot of community things. I want to be able to be effective in all of those places. But at the same time, we need to build in time for rest. And what I found is that most women don't have hobbies.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (35:57)
Yeah.
Bree Nachelle (36:06)
Most women don't have community groups that they belong to. Their community group is their family. So as I'm watching them retire from their jobs that they love very much, they're like, well, what do we do? We go get another job. So you see all these elderly women working at Macy's because they need something to do. When I retire, I want a second job. I'm retired. So, you know, and some of it's financial need, I understand. But to be able to say, you know what, I'm retired. then these are the things that bring
joy. I like to have these hobbies. We need to develop those hobbies now versus in our Twilight seasons.
Becky Mollenkamp (she/they) (36:42)
and we don't feel we have the spaciousness to give ourselves permission to do that. And that's where can we use tech to do that so that we are using the tech to do that versus the tech using us to be machines for capitalism. yes, thank you, Bree, so much. I really appreciate your time.
Bree Nachelle (36:55)
Let's live our best lives.
Thank you for having me.