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Explore how the social construct of race and racial oppression operates at multiple levels with a rotating focus on different social systems. Connect with Austin-area justice movement organizers and everyday people with relevant lived experience to lay out historical context, current affairs, and creative possibilities for a liberated future.
Y'all, It is that time again this month. You're listening to Racism on the Levels. My name is Stacey Fraser. My pronouns are she and they. This is a monthly show in the Austin Cooperative Radio Hour Collective that explores how the human design construct of race operates at the internal, interpersonal, cultural, institutional, and systemic levels with a steadfast focus on creative possibilities for liberation both now and beyond.
Stacie Freasier:I am a justice movement weaver, a Kingian non violence conflict reconciliation trainer. I'm a racial justice facilitator. I am a mother to a first grader. I am a granddaughter to 2 amazing women, Peggy Jo and Ivy Jean. And I'm 5th generation Texan as, you know, those names kinda give you a hint to my geographic origins.
Stacie Freasier:So the show's purpose is to hold space for story sharing, information sharing, dreaming, being in connection with one another with greater Austin area folks who are shining their liberatory lights. Be they healers, guides, storytellers, experimenters, frontline responders, visionaries, builders, caregivers, disruptors. Shout out to Deepa Iyer for framing these roles that I just, rolled through within the social change map. The views expressed here are not necessarily those of the coop board of directors, staff, volunteers, or underwriters. We are broadcasting on land in which inconceivable losses occurred in genocide and attempted erasure of, many indigenous groups, the Asana, the Humanos, the Tonkawa, the, grouping known as the Coelticans even though that has, you know, been for convenience of reference.
Stacie Freasier:And the Comanche, the Lipan Apache, and others who have stewarded this land long before, anyone listening here was here. So, check out, if you're joining us online, streaming anywhere, on Turtle Island, you can check out native land. Ca which is an updated map that shows you which indigenous people, are still on the land that you are living on. My guest on today's show is Andrew Reginald Hairston. Welcome.
Stacie Freasier:Welcome. Welcome, Andrew.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Thank you so much, Stacey.
Stacie Freasier:So, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to folks? Your pronouns, your and start with your Austin origin story.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Absolutely. I love this. My name is Andrew Reginald Hairston. My pronouns are he, they, and I love that Stacy framed this as we were in the pre meeting room. You know, what is your Austin origin story?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Mine begins in 2016. I just finished the academic requirements for law school, and Buddy and I ventured to Austin because we had never been, just to see what the city was about and and kinda hang out. Even then, I probably had prescient vision of my political engagement in Austin because that was the ride sharing fight era. You know, we got to Austin, and it was unclear whether we would be able to call Lyft and Ubers to our various destinations. But, you know, it continued to unfold.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I came back to Austin to visit in 2017 for Memorial Day, and then I moved in 2019 to take the job at Texas Appleseed that I still have.
Stacie Freasier:So doing the math here. We are at 5:5?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:5 years in Austin. Yeah. Yeah. I was telling Stacy with a bit of lamentation that I'm at the phase of my Austin life where people are starting to venture to other portions of the US and the world. Right?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And I am observing some of my favorites, like try hard coffee, clothes. You know?
Stacie Freasier:It was painful. That was hard. That was hard.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:But now I'm, like, that old in my Austin life that I've, like, seen trends. Right? I've seen patterns come and go, and I just I'm in love with the city.
Stacie Freasier:Me too. Yeah. How, where where were you before that? Yeah. And where where where is your where are your family familiar with roots?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yeah. Totally. I'll start with my birth. I was born in 1991 in North Carolina. My parents met there in a Baptist church, which is relevant to what I'll talk about pretty soon.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I stayed in North Carolina for 5 years, and then we lived throughout the US, my sister, parents, and I, throughout the remainder of my childhood. Went from North Carolina to Indiana, Indiana to Missouri, Missouri to Ohio. And then as I graduated from high school in 2009, my parents moved to Oklahoma, and they've been there for the past 15 years. My mother is from Louisiana. My father is from North Carolina.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I have that deep black southern tradition of, you know, fighting for liberation through a faith based lens from my parents. And, yeah, I intend to be organizing in the South as a black southerner for the remainder of my life.
Stacie Freasier:You've got a cross racial white southerner Mhmm. Liberatory minded for the rest of my life Yes. And planting the seed for in my future generation to, to get active.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yes.
Stacie Freasier:To be in community. To be an active community. So tell folks about, today's topic and why you proposed it.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yeah. I pitched black radical censorship to Stacey based on a talk that I gave at Harvard Law School in March. It was kind of incredulous to me. I was invited to Harvard Law School by the Bell Collective for critical race theory, and I met one of the student organizers while she was an undergraduate student at the University of Texas. Semiannually, I go to talk to a course in the University of Texas' College of Education called restorative practices.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And, I should give a little bit more background on myself. I'm a lawyer for Texas Appleseed and focused on dismantling the school to prison pipeline and that work. And, certainly, it's focused on imposing the very harmful systems of exclusionary discipline and school policing that impact black and brown children, LGBTQ young people, and kids with disabilities the most. But it's also focused on building these alternate visions of what a safe and supportive school could be for young people, like having restorative practices in place. And so this woman was in the course, you know, just really enjoyed my talk.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And at this point, it's going into her 3rd year at Harvard Law School, but spoke with her fellow Bell collective members, had me up to talk about black radical censorship, in March, and I have not been able to think about much else over the past 5 months.
Stacie Freasier:So that was, so Texas Appleseed. Tell folks what Texas Appleseed is.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:For sure. Texas Appleseed is a nonprofit public interest justice center. We've operated since 1996. We were founded by a number of private lawyers, mainly who graduated from Harvard Law School or were connected to the institution, who are trying to think about mobilizing members of the private bar to leverage their resources and try to support racial, social, and economic justice causes. Over our 28 year history, we've kind of honed in on a few core project areas, fair financial services access, criminal justice reform, youth justice, kinda focused on kids who are in the Texas juvenile justice department, education justice, my area, and then fair housing and disaster recovery and relief.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:We have a little bit of latitude to work on new projects like the experiences of older folks and making sure that they have the care that they need toward the end of their lives. But we use public policy advocacy. We are very engaged with the legislature every other year during session and community engagement and research, kind of going throughout the state of Texas to talk to folks, to hear about their lived experiences, be in partnership with them, and have that inform our policy recommendations.
Stacie Freasier:Thank you. So the topic of black censorship, when did that first become something you could name? Like, when did black censorship first rise in your consciousness or an early or formative memory for you?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yeah. I was a really I've been reflecting on this a lot in therapy and in other spaces. I was such a happy kid, and my parents and my extended family just created so many pathways for me to be insulated from the ills of the world, from the constant impact of racism, capitalism that, undoubtedly, that they were contending with as I am now. And so I probably was in college at Howard University when I started to think about black radical censorship, even if I wouldn't have named it as such 15 years ago. In college, I was very involved in opposing capital punishment, the death penalty in Maryland, the adjacent state, to DC, you know, where I was in college.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And we did a lot of policy advocacy and went to Annapolis to talk to legislators, about this perniciously evil and racist system that is the death penalty. And, just started to think about how it disproportionately impacts black people and how truly that is the ultimate way that you censor somebody by killing them.
Stacie Freasier:Mhmm.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:But then there are other ways, as I went to law school and kind of understood the very material impacts of racism on people's lives, especially in the South but across the country, the lack of access to basic human needs that, you know, censors black people day in and day out and prevents us from fully actualizing our dreams and our potential.
Stacie Freasier:You just broadened the concept for me in my mind when I thought about writing. I thought about literature. Where does black censorship how does it manifest, beyond the written word?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yeah. For sure. So, currently, and I talked about this a great deal at Harvard Law School this past spring. My mother is from a small town called Tallulah, Louisiana, which is 20 miles from the Mississippi, Louisiana border on I 20. It's actually relatively close to Jackson, Mississippi.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And that community has been majority black across the parish's history. But right now, the folks in Tallulah are contending with unclaimed water. You know, for nearly a decade, they have faced contaminated water, dirty water, and it's just something that the folks are very civically engaged in. You know, every month, even a few times a month, they're going to city hall to voice their discontentment and organize with one another. But that kind of material resource being denied them, I think, felt like such a tangible example for me to hone in on when I was in Cambridge.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And, you know, certainly, it was Flint during the Obama administration. Jackson, Mississippi itself has had water access issues. And just to think about these majority black communities or that have high concentrations of black people in these communities, that is the way. Water access, you know, is a very tangible way that black radical censorship, I think, shows up in the 21st century.
Stacie Freasier:Mhmm. If you're just tuning in, you are listening to racism on the levels. I am in conversation with, Andrew Reginald Hairston from Texas Appleseed, and other organizing, groups and communities. And, so before we continue unwinding the coil that is black censorship, you'd mentioned, a few places. You mentioned Howard University.
Stacie Freasier:You mentioned Harvard Law School. And what are the, are there other organizations that you have, been within that have helped, your practice?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Absolutely. Yeah. I organized with Austin DSA, the Democratic Socialists of America, and that has been so helpful for me across my Austin life. If you would have met me in 2019 when I was new to Austin, I probably would have been reluctant to claim the title socialist fully. Right?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I was tending towards socialism both in my personal and professional practice, but, you know, maybe because of McCarthyism and the red scare and, you know, just the ways in which the word, you know, socialism has been, dragged through the mud for the past 75 years or probably when it vocally claimed it. But organizing with Austin DSA has been such a a clarion call for me. I, during the pandemic, was living in Oklahoma with my parents working remotely. I got back to Austin pretty permanently in 2021 in time for the 87th regular legislative session. And later on that summer, you know, a year removed from George Floyd and the racial justice uprisings that came after that, that senseless murder, some folks from Austin DSA, who I had met at a rally in support of Rodney Reed in 2019, early on in my Austin life, approached me and said, well, Andrew, we're looking at this, this role justice of the peace and the precinct where you live.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And, you know, if you're at all interested, we'd like to think about running you as a candidate. And, I was very intrigued by that proposition. And, you know, spoiler alert, I lost the election two and a half years ago. But when I signed up as a dues paying member for DSA maybe 3 years ago to the day, I mean, I think it was a transformative moment in my life, right, to claim this label of socialist, right, and to know that I am fighting for a public infrastructure where this multiracial mass movement can fight for human dignity everywhere, and and everybody across their 100 years of life can have access to water, health care, you know, good food, housing, art, culture, and beauty, right, for free. Yeah.
Stacie Freasier:So it was pretty much enforcement of Austin TMS. No problem. Encore. They'll love that. Encore.
Stacie Freasier:You reminded me of a doctor West for a second there where he goes into his jazz improv, but with his voice and he's flowing, and you are not getting out of that beautiful magical flow. Wasn't about to disrupt that. Absolutely. So yeah. So, going back to now.
Stacie Freasier:So we've we've we've broadened in my mind already what we're talking about with black censorship. So you gave a a poignant example of, polluted water in a rural predominantly black town
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yeah.
Stacie Freasier:Being a form of radical black black censorship. So what is another example to set the container for what black censorship is in our conversation?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:For sure. The school to prison pipeline, my work, and my day job, and I think my life's work is another tangible example. So I mentioned it a bit earlier, through exclusionary discipline, mainly suspensions and expulsions, also alternative education placements, and school policing as a whole, black and brown children, LGBTQ young people, and kids with disabilities are completely hindered from achieving their academic, social, and emotional potential in their schools. It has risen in strength since Columbine, you know, since that mass shooting in 1999. But certainly, there were elements of the school to prison pipeline in the late 20th century after the civil rights movement, after young black people rose their rose up and spoke out against racial injustice by sitting in at lunch countertops and organizing within their churches and in their communities.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:There was backlash in the seventies eighties. They kinda tracked I mean, it's not a bipartisan commitment, but, you know, the Nixon administration might have been a catalyst for this response where, you know, suspensions rose precipitously across the country. You know, if young people were viewed as being, you know, out of control or disruptive, you know, they would be met with some type of ostracism, right, like being placed out of their classrooms. And now in this era of mass shootings, after Uvalde, 2 years removed from Uvalde, but also Parkland and Santa Fe 6 years ago, I think the experience about live black children is that if they at all begin to vocally interrogate the unequal systems in which they operate, they're met with a hammer. That is the school police officer.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:That is a suspension and expulsion. It'll be through very vague code of conduct violations like disrupting the peace or, you know, unruly behavior. Right? And I think for a lot of black children who I have encountered in my work, you know, in my congregation here in Austin, in my work as a lawyer, you know, some clients have had. What the experience will be is that the focus turns on their response to this racism that they've experienced.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? It's like, well, you cursed out the police officer, and you cursed out your teacher. And it's like, yeah. You know, they were on my neck like George Floyd, you know, like the officer who killed George Floyd. And they are constantly harassing me and my peers.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:They are sexually harassing us. They are physically brutalizing us. And, my my understanding has been clear across my 33 year life that black children understand these evil systems very well and might not be able to express it in the ways, you know, that I'm doing it. Right? But in their own right, they know what community building means in response to the efforts to privatize so much of the resources that they experience and and try and divide them, right, through the operation of American society these days.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:But even when black people, black young people go through these horrific conditions like a school police assault or being put out of their classroom, there will be this organizing that is going on, right, and this radical thought that is emerging. And, you know, undoubtedly, they're contending with the censorship of this great prison pipeline, but I think it has fueled the fire for a lot of young comrades who I've met. And, you know, is at this point in my life where I'm increasingly an older person. Right? I'm a non parent.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? Kinda my stake in that fight is a little bit more tenuous with each passing year. But to see how young black people combat the school to prison pipeline, I think, is both an example of black radical censorship in the school year prison pipeline, but also the organizing potential that is, community building and community care.
Stacie Freasier:How is 5 years of being in community and doing this work in Texas? How how has that experience been here? Maybe if you could compare it to some of the other places you've lived and organized in.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:This came up on a KUT radio program I was, interviewed for last year. I actually prefer to fight in Texas. You know, I kinda like it. Me too. Bring it.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I like the challenge.
Stacie Freasier:Stubborn. I'm real stubborn. I'm not leaving.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Wait. Wait. Elwood saying Legally Blonde. Right? I'll take the hard one.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:But, yeah, there is, you know, in DC where I I kinda came of age where I went to college and then
Stacie Freasier:At Howard, like the
Andrew Reginald Hairston:At Howard.
Stacie Freasier:HBC. And
Andrew Reginald Hairston:then went back after I graduated from law school in Louisiana to start my legal career in, you know, a a a more kind of democratic base like that. There might be expectations like, but we don't have to fight as assiduously against these systems. Right? And and don't let me minimize what's going on in DC or New York, right, in that way. But it might, on its face as you're kind of getting into your organizing work, be like, well, oh, you know, it seems like there are better policies in place or, like, you know, more black elected officials.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:You know? It just seems like a bit more accommodating for, you know, the conditions that we're hoping to achieve. But you peel back a layer in DC, it's like, okay. Black mayor, majority black city council, but still, you know, there are food deserts in southeast. You know, the police are ubiquitous.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Like, you know, very similar problems are going on, as across the country. But being in Texas, I kind of appreciate that, like, the folks who, don't want me to talk as much as I do are, like, very clear Yeah. That they don't want me to talk as much. And, like, I have testified before the Texas legislature and Austin City Council countless times at this point. And, like, they know what they're getting.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I know what I'm getting. Right? I'm I'm mostly just making a record to preserve, you know, like, look back 50 years.
Stacie Freasier:Right. But at least you know what you're dealing with. Like, that's something that comes up often in the organizing work, that I I do in, you know, with my comrades in Silva. And it's like a tape give me the deep south any day over New England, which the veiled racism. And also makes me think of the the moderate progressive that both Malcolm X and MLK talked about, being, you know, more of a threat.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Ouch. Ouch. Yeah. Mhmm. Absolutely right.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And so because of my family history, right, my parents, particularly, my mother's origins in Louisiana. And, I I kinda joke that I divide my time between Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Texas these days because I really do end up having family business kind of
Stacie Freasier:You just hop you just hop on the high power rail between the tri state region? That's
Andrew Reginald Hairston:on on my 100th birthday, that'll be, like, my last act. I'm like, take a train. They're like, he passed away happily on a train from Texas to Louisiana. What a great story to this 21st century socialist. A great ending to this story.
Stacie Freasier:Or up to up to Oklahoma. My goodness. It's flat getting up going up that way.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:So I I still need to need to take Amtrak up there. But, yeah, it's, I prefer the South. I I have been drawn to the South throughout my life. I think the work the the ground is fertile here for it. I've met some of the most soulful, creative people in Austin, especially.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:You know? I'm in love with the city itself. Don't get
Stacie Freasier:me wrong.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Do you
Stacie Freasier:wanna give some flowers to couple of those people that just came to your mind?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:To my folks, to people in Austin. Right? Austin, DSA, comrades, Joe Paulo Connolly came to mind. He's in the bay right now. He probably won't hear this, but he might die having having just been explicitly referenced by me.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:People with the Austin Justice Coalition, Chris Harris. Yeah. Just so many comrades. Yeah. Who have just laid out this this groundwork for me.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:It helped me to connect. What I appreciate about Austin the most is help me connect the dots in my life.
Stacie Freasier:Mhmm. Right?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:As a young, happy child, I'm like, okay. I'm getting, like, a piece of how this could be. Right? You know, I love my family. They are nurturing me.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:They're pouring into me, but, like, every child can experience this. Right? And then getting to be an older, you know, person, right, who understands capitalism, who has to work. Right? It's like, well, if I have to work, I wanna do something that I'm passionate about.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And, yes, so many comrades and friends in Austin have given me that space to grow and to just be in deep community and partnership.
Stacie Freasier:Yep. So we are going to, go out on a quick break, and we will be right back.
Alan Pogue:Hello. This is Alan Pogue with Veterans For Peace, an organization made up of veterans of all wars who now oppose war and associate members who share that objective. We wish to educate the American public on the huge cost of war and restrain our government from interfering in the internal affairs of other countries. We wish to end racism in our own country, seek justice for the victims of war and for our own veterans, and abolish war as an instrument of foreign policy. For more information, you can go on the web to veterans for peace dotorg.
radio:Have you heard a new word in the dominant language? Indigeneity indeed. D r g. Listen to Coop Radio East in Austin. Explore what that means.
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Andrew Reginald Hairston:Heartbeats indigenous hour.
radio:Bring your brain to the world's web stream, 6 PM Tuesday on coop.org. It's a heart space, and 91.7 FM Radio for Peoples, Not for Profits.
Stacie Freasier:You are listening to Coop, k0op.org. We stream online all of our programming. So thank you if you are not listening here on this soil in Austin, Texas 91.7 FM. I am your host Stacy Frazier. You are listening to Racism on the Levels and I have Andrew Reginald Hairston, as my guest today and we are waxing on the very important subject of black censorship.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yeah.
Stacie Freasier:So, Andrew, what, who are some of the the writers, the or other mediums, honestly. Yeah. Speakers, teachers who have influenced your thinking on this topic.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yeah. In preparing for this and thinking about black censorship, I thought immediately about Toni Morrison. Right? 60 years, before me, right, in many ways, went to Howard as well. And, like, coming into her work, I read Song of Solomon when I was in the 11th grade and then probably Beloved when I was in college, and Tar Baby Sula, you know, so many other critical works of hers.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:But I think the bluest eye stood out to me the most. Right? Her first work and that, you know, it's a very visceral piece. Right? And, you know, I won't spoil it, but it ends in a very kind of dramatic, stunning way, and has been targeted recently over the past several years as, you know, conservative legislatures across the country have looked to enact critical race theory bans and to strip books from libraries.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Like, that raw ending of The Bluest Eye, I think, has come under scrutiny. But I think that Toni Morrison represents one of the best aspects of the black radical tradition, especially through writing. And I should mention that I'm a writer as well, and we'll tell folks more about where I found some of my work. But, yeah, it's been very instructive to me across my adult life, especially. I also wanna uplift Peter h Clark, an Ohioan, who is largely known all these centuries later as the first black socialist in America.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:He lived from 18 29 to 1925, was a teacher. And I should also mention that I come from, you know, a a history of teachers. My mother is currently an assistant principal at a middle school in Oklahoma City. My maternal grandmother was a math teacher, in middle school in Madison Parish, Louisiana for 30 years. And so Peter Clark is this teacher, is this school administrator, right, was working through some of the tough circumstances of 19th century, the civil war, reconstruction.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:He kind of postured himself to get involved in politics, to try and get appointments or be elected to office. He never did. Right? Which I think is a meditation on my life. Right?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I have been drawn to electoral politics and probably will continue along that path. But even if I never succeed, right, I think that there's something about inserting yourself into the conversation as an explicit black socialist and naming, like, during his time that union struggles were ripe. You know, a lot of folks were recognizing that radical history of labor, but racism was also present too. And white workers during Reconstruction were, you know, very resentful of black laborers who were making progress and, you know, kind of shut them out of some of the advances made by unions and responded with violence and other circumstances. And so thinking about folks like Tyke Morrison, Peter h Clark, and, you know, other comrades across time who have put it in writing and use their their microphones to speak about the black experience so authentically in America and about what's needed to improve the tide for all.
Stacie Freasier:Are you a music man?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I love music. I do.
Stacie Freasier:So who are some Yeah. A musician or some musicians that also
Andrew Reginald Hairston:My, you know, my father's not a big music person. Right? I so when we were young, my mother would drive me and my sister to school and we'd listen to radio Disney, which
Stacie Freasier:I like, I did mouseercise when we got the free HBO preview weekend out in the country on the satellite dish. So, yeah, I was raised on mouseercise. We we turned out okay, I suppose. Talk about racial capitalism. We're not going on social messages in Disney today.
Stacie Freasier:That's another episode.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:They're like, these guys mentioned Elle Woods and radio Disney.
Stacie Freasier:Let me refine my question, Andrew. This game. Right. My question is, who is embodying Absolutely. A rejection and resistance by inserting their musical voice their musical Yeah.
Stacie Freasier:Conversation.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I'll continue to say that I got into music more, like, when I was in my twenties, like, with the, you know, Spotify or Apple Music subscription. I like the guy Mellow out these days. Like, in Kroger and Ben, you know, shout out to their Texas origins. Like, really appreciate that kind of, like, chill music. Gary Clark junior, Austin, you know, love his sound, love his music.
Stacie Freasier:And He's used his platform.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think he's done very, very well. And various folks in the Texas Music Museum.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I, wanna shout Jay Stanley, one of the curators there who put me and a friend on to some of the amazing history of music in Austin. And I'll just name one person, Virgie Carrington DeWitty, who was a member of Ebenezer 3rd Baptist Church, which is where I attend. And so, yeah, I I think generally recommend the folks to go to the Texas Music Museum and kind of pour into this rich history of Austin music.
Stacie Freasier:Thank you for sharing that. So, thank you for sharing some of your influences too that have informed, your thinking. And, you know, we I'm sure if we do this in 5 more years, you're gonna have a even more of a
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Long list. Yeah.
Stacie Freasier:Yeah. So how does this show how does black censorship show up in your work today?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:For sure. So as or I'm a 33 year old civil rights lawyer. I think I've been very privileged and very fortunate to pursue my dream and to work on achieving my life's mission. Right? Which as I framed it yesterday at my kind of a hang is to make sure that black children have the full ability to express themselves and their humanity wherever they are.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? That's my life's work. And, you know, I have made ground on that. Right? I mean, I don't wanna give too much, you know, benefit to Harvard, you know, as an institution, right, built on exploitation and slave labor.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:But I was grateful to be invited to one of the most prestigious law schools to talk about my work several months ago. And I think that that trend will continue. But, I live paycheck to paycheck. Right? I I am a person who has driven Lyft and Uber as recently as 2021 to make ends meet.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I lean on solidarity within my family, you know, at times, like, for all that I've achieved, I still am, like, a stone's throw away from, you know, very tough conditions. Right? And having the rug swept out from under me. And so I think that censorship has shown up in that, like, capitalism racial capitalism is very real. Right?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And, it's not something that you can outsmart. Right? You know, I think I have
Stacie Freasier:You've got the credentials. Right?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I've got the credentials. Right? You know, it should be easier ostensibly. Right? But still this extractive system, you know, month to month, does not let me make any ground.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And so in response to that, to go back to the brilliance of young black people that I mentioned earlier, I'm organizing like like I can't organize anymore. Right? I'm so drawn to organizing. I'm so in love with the idea of building strong communities, of building relationships with people, of of seeing what the contradiction that everybody's not your person. That I'm fighting for conditions of, you know, even black people in my past who have who have hurt me.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? But I still want you, as any black person, as any person who has been cast out. Right? To have the full access to what this earth already inherently gives us. Right?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:The access to water and land and connection, that should be uninhibited, but unfortunately is. And so, you know, my organizing, I think, happens sometimes during my day job, but also, like, it's challenging that you have to, like, be committed to your professional role. Right? You have to put bread on the table and keep a house over your head. And sometimes organizing might have to take a bit of a back burner, right, and be done during your extracurricular hours.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:But, yeah, even with the censorship that I faced, I draw immense hope from the connections I've made, the organizing that I'm striving to do, and just seeking to get better at each day.
Stacie Freasier:When I came when I I left Austin in 2003 and then I came back in 2021, and, man, I was a, as I think many to this day fall prey to, I thought Austin was a very liberal progressive city, as a white bodied woman. And then my my understanding of racial capitalism developed throughout time in my life. I'm 44 now, but living in the northeast, and when I came back I didn't have because I didn't have to have because I walk through the world passing freely in my white skin. I have other, you know, subjugated identities, but, that but racism is not one of those that I have faced. So when I when I came back with this nuanced understanding and awareness, once you know something, if you don't act to change something, then you're complicit with the problem.
Stacie Freasier:And I, I try to live my life with that as a forefront, principle that I'm moving through the world in. The African American population in Austin is really small yet very mighty, but dwindling within the Austin city limits. Right? And so how does Andrew, as as as a black body human walking through Austin and doing organizing work, how do you see cross racial solidarity work in here? And and given numbers, like, how is that how is that shaking out?
Stacie Freasier:Like, what is your organizing experience along cross racial and and and racial lines here?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:For sure. Yeah. I was joking, before we got on the air that, I was at sea hall testifying yesterday in favor of the community investment budget. Unfortunately, it looks like the $18,000,000 plus, increase to the Austin Police budget was adopted by city council. But even under those deleterious and burdensome circumstances of going to testify, like, for basic human dignity, right, in front of people who don't seem that concerned with what you're saying.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:It's kinda like a family reunion. You know? I first made this joke with Chris Harris, and I think we really were cracking up over coffee about it. Right? But I see my people at Austin City Council, right, when I'm going to testify right, the Texas Legislature.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? And these are folks across race, across age differences, you know, different backgrounds that have brought them into organizing. The possibilities are ripe here in Austin. During the AEth legislative session in Texas, which was grueling, right, the kind of big thing that passed that was germane to my work was an armed security officer requirement in every school across the state that went into effect September 1, 2023. But during that, even as we were fighting and, like, weeping, you know, at different times during session, I saw some of the most amazing organizing I've ever witnessed in support of trans folks.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Like, I mean, like, just feeling the rotunda, feeling the hallways, having die ins. Like, if you fascist people want to, like, focus on folks who have, up to this point, been stripped of power, stripped of dignity by you, then then watch us organize in response. You think that your fear mongering is sowing the seeds of division and hatred, but it's actually building solidarity and love. And those folks, I mean, inspired me so much that I can just when I'm having a rough day at work or just, like, a little bit tired, I'll think back to this vivid memory of thousands of people in my mind, just like in the capitol building, like, you will not attack trans folks. You will not attack their inherent human dignity.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? Now on our watch and if you do pass it, it's over our very vocal opposition. So I've seen a lot. And then, you know, reproductive justice access, right, abortion access. I think the fight, especially after Dobbs 2 years ago, I've seen a lot of cross racial, multiracial solidarity and have been very inspired, in the organizing that I've witnessed.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And one other thing I should say is labor, generally. Shout out to everybody who is unionizing their workplaces, thinking about unionizing. Like, Austin DSA, I think, has drawn some very helpful lines of connection between the labor struggle and, like, socialists who are organizing in the 21st century. And I think because everybody has to work under racial capitalism, it's such, like, a ripe opportunity to build that multiracial mass movement through labor struggle.
Stacie Freasier:Not sure where we wanna go. We have we have I have 6 minutes. Mhmm. So good. Because I know you have to go at Tintill.
Stacie Freasier:So, so we're gonna talk 3 times as fast. Okay. For sure. For sure. Okay.
Stacie Freasier:Upcoming ledge session.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yes.
Stacie Freasier:In the spirit of resisting black censorship, what are a couple of principled struggles we are looking at and engaged in right now leading up?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:For sure. This is a very intriguing time, 2024. A lot of anniversaries occurred this year. Right? So the 30th anniversary of the gun preschools act, the 60th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the 70th anniversary of Brown v Board, the 25th anniversary of Columbine.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Just a very interesting time. Right? And a lot of my messaging at work is, like, look, especially since Brown v Board, at how American education policy through school safety, school climate, and school integration policies in particular have consistently failed black children. Right? And I think this is a unique moment to look at that long history.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? We threw 1,000,000,000 of dollars to the police. Right? We tried to move forward vouchers and privatized education, like, in various ways our efforts to, hinder and diminish the right to a quality public education, have not gilded the results that we seek. And so going into the 89th legislative session in 2025, I think we're very focused on looking at those anniversaries.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Like, in Texas in 1995, chapter 7 of 37, pardon me, of the Texas Education Code was enshrined into law, which includes alternative education programs. And I think that in coalition, Texas Appleseed, with our partners, we have momentum to address the very harmful impact of alternative education placements on all these young folks across Texas across the past 3 years. And also think about vaping. This is very unique. It's interesting for me.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:I'm 18 months sober myself, right? And had a journey throughout my twenties to get to sobriety as, like, a kind of clear focused place of my life. But to kinda understand that a lot of young people are vaping because of the unaddressed harms of the pandemic, because of their understanding of racial capitalism and oppression, and just need an outlet. Right? And they should not at all be punished for that.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? They should be, you know, if anything, lauded for understanding how these intricately tough systems work by addressing the criminalization of vaping and substance use generally. Like, if a young person is caught with such a thing, right, like, the first question shouldn't be, how long is your alternative education placement? It should be what's going on with you? And, like, let's create a space where you can talk candidly about what's occurring in your life.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:So those are the 2 focused areas, alternative education and vaping going into the 8 night session for education justice where I think we can achieve some ground.
Stacie Freasier:How can folks, you mentioned you. Right? Yes. If Tell us tell us a little bit about that.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Yes. And
Stacie Freasier:where to find it?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:If you would like the perspectives of a black bisexual socialist minister and prison abolitionist, You can first go to andrewrhairston.com. My last name is spelled h a I r s t o n. I also have a substack, andrewrhairston.substack.com, uncle drew substack. Watch me muse on everything from faith to sexuality to politics to race to organizing to joy. You know?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And, I continue to go deeper, I think, with each passing month into that that work, and I'm excited to continue along that path.
Stacie Freasier:What is the vision that that you hold for us, an alternative create an alternative world? What what what are the key elements in that world?
Andrew Reginald Hairston:The laughter is incessant. Right? The joy is constant. Right? Like, folks are just so connected.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? So so able to connect. Right? That, you know, certainly, there will be tears wept, and certainly, there will be times of sorrow as will come in any human life. But, ultimately, there will just be so much relationship building that occurs that, you know, it won't be having tears shed over, like, the lights being shut off or an eviction looming or, you know, the police kill and get another black person.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Right? And it'd be other other things that kinda bring the tears and kind of thinking of the continuity in the cycles of life. Yeah. I I hope for this multiracial mass movement where folks are able to go deeper in those connections to make them initially to feel like they are heard and saying and that, you know, just because you breathe, you have a very valuable perspective that, you know, nobody else can quite exactly talk to. And we we need your voice, and we want to hear it.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:And, I think in this world that I'm striving to build that I might not see. Right? Those perspectives are available, and those connections are available, and people are able to fully flourish and thrive with one another.
Stacie Freasier:Thank you very much.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Thank you, sir.
Stacie Freasier:With that, I'm gonna stand up, give you a quick hug, and, send you on your way because you have a, a call to get on.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Capitalism strikes you.
Stacie Freasier:That's right. On on this show.
Andrew Reginald Hairston:Thank you, Stacey.
Stacie Freasier:I got a love song. I got a good song. In this world, you only need one song. To live your life like you Travel the world sharing your time with the young and the old and the rich and the poor. The conversation, let them move your soul.
Stacie Freasier:You got a love song. I got a love song. We in the love song.