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Ohio's public schools serve 1.6 million children - 90 percent of students in the state! What happens in the classroom has impacts far beyond the walls of the K-12 school building or higher ed lecture hall. So, on behalf of the 120,000 members of the Ohio Education Association, we're taking a deeper dive into some of the many education issues facing our students, educators, and communities. Originally launched in 2021 as Education Matters, Public Education Matters is your source for insightful conversations with the people who shape the education landscape in Ohio. Have a topic you'd like to hear about on Public Education Matters? Email us at educationmatters@ohea.org
Intro - Various members and students speaking 0:08
Public Education Matters. Public Education Matters. Public Education Matters because every student matters. Education Matters. Public Education Matters because it is the foundation of our democracy. Public Education Matters because we are stronger when we speak in one voice. Public Education Matters. Public Education Matters. Public Education Matters, Public Education Matters. This is Public Education Matters, brought to you by the Ohio Education Association.
Katie Olmsted 0:41
Thanks for joining us for this episode of Public Education Matters. I'm your host, Katie Olmsted. And I want to tell you a story. Once upon a time, there was an organization called the Ohio Education Association, and it represented nearly 120,000 public school teachers, education support professionals, higher ed faculty members and others across the state of Ohio. Now, those education support professionals represent nine career families, ranging from food services to skilled trades. Nationwide, the average ESP has been working in their ESP field for 13 years. 81% of ESPs in the United States are women. Those were all interesting points, sure. But let's be honest. You were listening to all of this saying, So what? Throwing data at you and reciting lists and figures doesn't really enhance your understanding of ESP issues and challenges, or the immense value of ESPs in our schools, does it? Our brains crave a narrative. It's how we make meaning of new information so we can interpret the world around us. And when our brains hear a good, powerful story, that can prompt us to act. That's why storytelling is such an important tool for organizing within a union. And that's what Ohio's New Educators (ONE) and Aspiring Educators (AE) heard all about at a recent joint conference, thanks to a session with AE advisor and associate professor of literacy and education at Ohio University Lancaster, Dr. Kevin Cordi, and ONE member ambassador and fifth grade social studies teacher and Huber Heights, Katie Fuller. We asked them to share some of that insight with us for this podcast, too.
Katie Olmsted 2:31
Kevin, Katie, thank you so much for joining us. It is so exciting to hear from you because you have so many powerful things to talk about. That's what story is right? Let's talk with the big, big question here. What is a story? And what makes it powerful as that organizing tool?
Dr. Kevin Cordi 2:52
Well, that's a great question. And people been asking that for years. But if you think about story, it is simple form, just telling a narrative. It's telling a short account. But the way that you tell that short account determines the impact. And the most important thing is that you know, when you learn who you're telling it for. Katie probably can add to that as well.
Katie Fuller 3:14
Yes, I agree for me, especially in the line of organizing, it's all about the stories that we tell. We can look at the data, we can look at all the other things, but it's the stories that speak to the heart, to the heart of issues, to the heart of people, we speak to the mind and to the heart, but it is our stories that we tell, that we must tell. And we can use that to help us in our organizing efforts. Because people want to know we're real people. People join the union, not for the the union, but they joined because of people and their stories.
Katie Olmsted 3:47
And our stories connect us. And they change the way our brains interpret everything around us. Can you help me understand that a little better?
Dr. Kevin Cordi 3:59
You're taking the principle of connecting. There's a Croatian saying that you can't hurt someone once you know their story. And if you think of a union, you think of a school, they need to know their stories together. As Katie just echoed, it makes us human. It makes us connected and makes us care. But the brain - We used to think that story and storytelling was just to entertain little kids. That's a beautiful way of doing it. But it also teaches them and they're slowly realizing that the research supports that our brain is like a city five times over and the neurons light up when you tell a story. But we spend endless amount of time showing people PowerPoints when the brain is wired for story. Lisa Kron mentions this. Jonathan Gottschall says that we're storytelling animals, and we are like a literal city and there has been proven studies both from the brain scans and the blood samples that the more powerful your story is, the more connected you are. So let's put those two together. We can create a community that cares and makes a difference and works toward advocacy, with a proven method that works, and that is storytelling.
Katie Fuller 5:10
I think it also builds community. I'm wearing a shirt today that says solidarity is a verb. It's through our actions, right, and our stories, and we hear the relatability of each other. Because when they can hear our stories, they can begin to relate and see that we are human and see that we are connected. And that's what I love about conversation and about sharing our stories and know that these are real issues for real people with real stories.
Katie Olmsted 5:33
One of the things that you brought up was the powerful story. So what makes a story actually powerful?What, what engages people and encourages them to take what they're hearing and do something with it?
Dr. Kevin Cordi 5:47
Well, I'll start with a sad note, Kendall Haven, who wrote a book called Story proof says that 90 to 95% of stories won't land, unless they have two things. And for our union to realize this, for educators to realize this, this is the more powerful note, it must have change or resistance to change. And so stories of change is something that we're going to listen to. We don't listen to things in the middle, we listen to things on the edges. We listen to the things about, as Katie pointed out, that makes us human, that were personal, that builds community. So we can't just tell an ordinary story. We have to tell a story that has change. And that often includes powerful and passionate difference.
Katie Olmsted 6:37
And this is important not just for a local association or getting more people to become engaged with the local union. But this this has really powerful implications for everyday interactions in your classrooms, too.
Dr. Kevin Cordi 6:53
I actually would challenge someone to say that they don't teach with story because story is an almost everything that we do. We spend a lot of time and lesson plan building and objectives. I actually structured my students, when I'm teaching them how to be teachers, to build story based lesson plans and kindness based lesson plans. If it's the way their brain operates, why don't we plan for that? I call it a narrative mindset. We can we can take on a narrative mindset. One of my favorite principals started the day at every meeting and said, let me just tell you what's going on in the school. Let me tell you the stories of the power that's going on. And it could be something that you know, the football team won, but it could also be a difference that the teacher did. We need to be included. Stories make us visible. And so let's stop with all the data PowerPoints and all that. You can use them, but they need to come from narrative so that we can influence, persuade, and emotionally connect.
Katie Olmsted 8:00
And this is something you are really sharing with all of the educators you encounter. Just this past weekend, you were talking to the ONE members and the Aspiring Educators at a conference. Tell me a little bit about how that session went and what you were really hoping they took away from it.
Dr. Kevin Cordi 8:17
I have the great fortune of working with Katie here at that conference. And we will use story to show why they were visible. And she shared a story. And I might ask her to share a little bit of how that story was powerful when it was told in its complete fashion. Katie can you share that story or a little bit of it?
Katie Fuller 8:37
Sure, not a problem. This was actually a really great opportunity for us to collaborate to give a Motivational Minute to Aspiring Educators from all over the state of Ohio. And so the sharing of the story that I share was a story that happened a few years ago in my local. And it was a powerful story that invoke change, just like we talked about. It was during Black History Month that I participated amongst the rest of the school, a school wide door decorating contest, and it was for Black History Month. And with that, I wanted to go beyond the Harriet, the Martin, and the Malcolm story. And I chose to do the story of the 1963. Children's March of 1963. I'm not sure if you or the listeners are familiar with it, but it is a very interesting story in history that took place. And with that we wanted to convey that when the adults were afraid to go to the streets, children went and protested. So that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to empower my students to share their voice. And so with that, we started on our journey of creating a mural. It was a door decorating contest, but because it's a long hallway, we wanted to tell the story of the the Children's March of 1963. So on each door, it would bring out all the historical events that happened during that time. But there was a problem that happened. Someone took a picture of an incomplete mural on the wall in our hallway. And they posted it on our community website. And with that, no one ever asked the question, they never made the ask and say, well explain this. What is this? It's not, you know, complete, but we're interested. No one ever made the ask. In fact, they put it on our website where I was told that I was a police hater, a racist, and a lot of different things were said about this incomplete mural. And so with that I tell this story, not to invoke anger, but to say that it was the ask, the importance of asking the question, making the ask, but out of this, it brought about significant change in our community, in our school, in our area. And with that, after we decided that this was just a, just a minor situation that was a miscommunication, we were able to come together as a school as a local and be able to talk about this issue, and come to a resolve where now we are able to have these conversations, and we are able to talk about the hard things. And so that story in this moment was so pivotal, it actually put me on a new direction to start talking about DEI, also known as diversity, equity and inclusion, in my area. So it actually changed the way I do things as an educator. It changed perspective. So this was a powerful piece and a powerful moment, for my area for my teachers, for my, my colleagues, because it really, really did exactly what we just talked about with the art of storytelling. It allowed us to have a moment to listen. So we're talking about the art of listening and what we talked about at the conference. And we also talked about the power of storytelling. So I had an opportunity to sit in a fishbowl like setting where we did a restorative circle with my colleagues. And I was able to tell the story to take them walk them through the journey of what happened from the start to the end, of how I felt, how my students felt. How you took our voice. And not just mine but my students voice because I was asked to take down the mural, effective immediately. And so we just kind of walk through that. And we were able to have this conversation. So the big takeaway from this conference, Katie, is that we wanted to be able to talk about the power of storytelling, that what happens when we tell our stories? And then what can we do with those stories? How can we use that as an agent of change? How can we use that in the art of organizing and using that as issue organizing for that matter? You know, how can we begin to empower people with our story. So we were really excited about motivating and energizing the Aspiring Educators. And they were, they were so grateful. And then from that we took and went into a breakout session. We were able to kind of break that down a little bit more with some people and talk about how we structure stories. And we shared a little bit of stories. And Dr. Kevin actually kind of walked us through that exercise. But all in all, Katie, it was absolutely amazing. We were super excited. The Aspiring Educators are excited. People were energized. So I was super excited about it.
Katie Olmsted 13:11
And it strikes me, because just listening to your story right now, you could say Hi, I'm Katie Fuller, and I care about DEI. And that's nice. I'm happy for you as an advocate. But when you are able to tell me what happened and put that emotion in it, it takes us from the 'what' to the 'so what' and why should I care. And I think that is so very powerful. And I think there's also one element that we haven't really touched on yet. And that's that it's not just what you're saying. It's about what you've been hearing, listening is such a big part of this.
Dr. Kevin Cordi 13:45
I would only add that creating a space for that to happen. So I had the good fortune of being the first full time high school storytelling teacher in the country. And one of the co-authors that I worked with, or the co-author said, both at the middle school in the high school, our students are not being heard. As teachers. We're not being asked for our stories. I had a student I said I was teaching a storytelling class. I said I want you to go find a student or a teacher that has asked for your story. She came back two weeks later, she was an honor student, Maggie said, I either don't understand that excitement or I can't no one's asked my opinion, let alone my story. And so we wrote a book called "Raising Voices: Creating New Storytelling Groups and Troops." Here's the deal - if we don't make space for students to be heard, if we don't make space for educators to be heard, and these are divergent stories, these are different stories. Story wakes up the world. It creates an understanding for differences. But teachers and administrators sometimes are never asked, What is your story? Or as Katie say, why? What is your story of why of being an educator, but borrowing from Simon Sinek it is so important that we - I mean, I'm biased and intentionally - we should change our curriculum and the way that we act to answer to the stories that we want to tell individually, collectively and for the school itself.
Katie Olmsted 15:15
Do you think everyone has a powerful story to tell?
Dr. Kevin Cordi 15:18
There's no question to that. I mean, there is because you ask it, but everyone has a powerful story. But it's like, I met a 45 year old woman came up to me and said, is it this is an I never heard stories growing up? Is it okay that I want them now. I was aghast to think that this woman had to ask my permission, that it was okay to tell stories. But stories are in our blood. It's who we are. It's how we think. It's how we react, it's how we receive. We need to answer to story instead of ignoring it. Because it is the way that we talk and make meaning and decide on ideas, the research is supporting it. And if we want to promote change, let's listen to each other. We don't always have to tell. Most of telling as listening. That's how you become a better storyteller. And story maker. Educators need not be silent in the room, but they need to be silent when they come in so they can hear what others are thinking so that collectively, co-creation can occur.
Katie Olmsted 16:27
And at the end of the day, is unionism our co creation of our story together?
Dr. Kevin Cordi 16:37
I would say indeed. In 1979, in Ohio, in Brunswick, a hundred teachers were put in jail for unionizing. It was international news. I taught at that school. And the first person who was my landlord, who was also a teacher there said, I need to tell you about the union. I know you know it from a pamphlet, I want to tell you what it is. I want to tell you the story of it, I want to tell you, I want you to meet the person that was put in jail by this judge, you know, rotating cycle, and this story is real. And this story could happen again. I want to, I want you to tell you why you have breaks in your day, I want to I want to tell you why there's a contract. It was so so important in the story is how we make real saying this slide isn't going to do that. Listening to the people is going to empower. Katie has a lot to say to that, too.
Katie Fuller 17:35
Absolutely. I was gonna say continue to tell your stories. We all have a story inside of our book. And I would just encourage, as we teach, reach, and inspire people to action, we can do that with the stories that we tell. So lead, lead, lead, lead on with your stories and your voice. Because we all have a powerful voice. Use your voice, tell your story. And remember, you have a why.
Dr. Kevin Cordi 17:58
And I would only add that your stories are important. The person the telling the story is very important. We need to nurture the craft, that we're listening deeper. We live in a world which can be full of indecision, and even anger. And one way we become less angry, is truly listening to each other. We don't have to agree. But we should move inside the story so that we can see it differently. And we can be advocates for what we understand and learn what we don't. Educators have the best job in the world. I tell people other people should be jealous because people have chosen to teach. It's been my practice. Has there been hard moments within the context of that story? Yes. But teaching is the most valuable thing that we can do. And I appreciate the opportunity to be able to share my story in hopes of hearing everybody else's.
Katie Olmsted 18:54
Kevin Cordi, Katie Fuller, thank you for sharing your stories with us.
Dr. Kevin Cordi 18:58
Thank you.
Katie Olmsted 19:01
As you heard there, everyone has a story to tell. And our next guest has such a powerful story: Overcoming so many challenges as a single mom of three going to school to get her degree, leaning into her incredible thirst for knowledge to continue seizing every learning opportunity that came her way throughout her career, and never losing sight of her driving motivation in all that she does, simply wanting to help people. And that's what Sandy Smith Fisher wants to do on the State Teachers Retirement System Board. She wants to help. She's running to represent active teachers on the STRS board to work collaboratively with all stakeholders to help ensure all teachers now and into the future can rely on a good pension they won't outlive. The OEA Board of Directors believes in Sandy Smith Fischer and voted to endorse her in this election. Take a listen to our conversation with Sandy Smith Fisher about what she would bring to the STRS Board.
Katie Olmsted 20:06
Sandy Smith Fisher, thank you so much for sitting down with us to help us understand who you are and what you will bring to the STRS board, as you run to represent the active educators in our state. Why do you want to be on the STRS board?
Sandy Smith Fischer 20:23
I'm the type of person that likes to help others. And I tried to help out whenever possible. And I was at to rep assemblies and both times, you know, they were asking for somebody to stand up and to be on the board, because there was an open available seat. So because somebody asked for help, I stood up and decided to try to help. So I'm going to do whatever I can to help the active and the retired, because I think all of us together, that's that is what the STRS is, you know, it's the retirement and we need to think about everybody.
Katie Olmsted 21:03
And not just the current retirees and the current actives, but also making sure that it's a sustainable system for future educators.
Sandy Smith Fischer 21:11
Oh, absolutely.
Katie Olmsted 21:13
Is that something you're hearing as you're as you're talking to people during this election season?
Sandy Smith Fischer 21:18
Well, yes, I do talk to a lot of people. And you know, people are worried about you know, when they retire, is there going to be enough money? Are they going to be having a COLA? And even the people who are already retired, you know, is it going to be sustainable? You know, are they going to have a COLA back? And, you know, is it going to be what was promised to us, you know, so many years ago? All I can say is that when I'm elected, then I'll be able to be there to be part of those conversations to help everybody work through. You know, there's a lot of people that are already on the board who have been on the board in the past. You know, and their voices are just as important as mine. I'm trying to bring the voices of everybody who cannot be there, so that we're making sure that we're taking care of everybody.
Katie Olmsted 22:11
Making sure that is a stable, reliable pension for everybody. I know that you are working, or would be working to restore benefits like the COLA and the eligibility age as much as possible. But it has to be done responsibly.
Sandy Smith Fischer 22:30
Absolutely.
Katie Olmsted 22:31
Going into this, how do you balance those priorities?
Sandy Smith Fischer 22:34
Well, you have to make sure that the money that we have there is safe. And it's not being spent on things that don't need to be. Like, I know, across districts, you know, I hear a lot of times, you know - because I'm also, you know, a member of uniserv and I'm the secretary there, so I hear from you know, a lot of people there too, - you know, how Oh, you know, our district's top heavy, you know, and oh, they're spending money on things that they shouldn't be? Well, being able to look at that kind of stuff, you know, at the STRS board, you know, where you can see, oh, okay, well, this is happening. Maybe we don't need to do that so that we can prepare better for the future for the members. You know, because isn't that what the retirement's supposed to be for? It's for the members for their future?
Katie Olmsted 23:30
And the questions that you would bring to the board are the questions that I think a lot of people are asking. And it's the questions you're hearing from people all around you. Well, Sandy, I know that you have twice served as the president of your local association, currently a building representative. And as you mentioned, you're the secretary of your leadership council. Talk to me a little bit about how we got to this point in your career and in your life.
Sandy Smith Fischer 23:58
Well, for many years, I was a single mom with three children. And I, you know, went back to work after my last one was about two or three years old. And I was a Headstart teacher, I worked there and I had to go and get my educational specialist degree or something. I can't remember it was an associate's degree. That's what it was. It was the associate's. So while I was going to all of those classes, after, you know, going to work every day, I would go to Kent State and take classes and I would bring my children to the evening classes with me. And then I was also a Cub Scout leader and a Girl Scout leader all at the same time. And my daughter, my oldest one, she had some hard times with her writing and stuff, so she would transcribe all of her homework into a tape player, and then I would type it out every night too as well as doing all of my homework and taking care of the children. Then, after I graduated the first time, they asked me to stay on to get my master's. So I did. And that's why, you know, it wasn't until 2001 that I started teaching. I didn't marry my husband until 2008. And then he deployed. And that was, was it the first year that I was? Yes, I think that was the first time I was the president, when he was deployed. So that was, that was a little bit challenging. You know, even though I was married, it was kind of like, Here I am, again, you know, doing everything, you know. But, again, it's all about helping others. I have to make sure that I know as much as I can to be the best person available to be able to help others and to bring a voice, you know, forward to those that don't stand up or cannot have their voice heard. So that's what I tried to do. That's why I'm an intervention specialist. Because our students, they don't always have a voice. So I try to stick up for that, you know, because they can't, it's the same thing with the members, you know, in your local unions, you know, there's a lot of people who don't want to be involved, as they say, but they still have a voice that needs to be heard. Again, the same thing when you start getting bigger, you know, with the NEOEA. And even with the OEA. People have voices that want to be shared, but they do not stand up for whatever their personal reason is, and that is fine, I am willing to bring their voices forward. Because that's just the kind of person I am.
Katie Olmsted 26:44
And I know, as an intervention specialist, you have really developed a reputation for collaboration with parents, with administrators, teachers, other education professionals, making sort of a supportive network around each student. The power of teamwork is a really big thing for you. How do you bring that from the classroom setting to the STRS board when you're elected?
Sandy Smith Fischer 27:12
Well, you have to value others to begin with. And you have to listen to what their concerns are, and what their ideas are. And then after you have all of that, then you kind of meld each person's together to find commonalities and you build off of that. It's not, you don't want to roll over anybody, you want everybody to have value. So if you're going to be part of a team, that means listening to things that you might not want to hear, or making decisions that you might not like. But there was some trainings that I've gone through, where they talk about having 80% - 75 to 80% that you're okay with, because you're not always going to get your way 100% of the time. But if you can be 75 to 80% okay with that, and move on, that's something to build on. And you got to find that within each person within the team. There's got to be a little bit of give and take. Without it, there's nothing but fighting. And that's not good.
Katie Olmsted 28:22
And certainly not when it comes to the STRS board, where everyone really needs to be working together to make sure that we have the most stable, sustainable pension for all retirees moving forward.
Sandy Smith Fischer 28:37
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, you have to have the ability to communicate and be open and have that open communication with each other, so that you can hear what they're saying, you can work together to make sure that the retirement is stable, that you know it is going to be sustainable, and that you're not being frivolous with things. When you have to look at all parts and say, what can we do to make this matter? You know, what do we see as an area that needs to be improved upon because everything needs to be improved upon at some point. You know, we're not all perfect. And also, just listening to others and working through it and finding that common ground to build that.
Katie Olmsted 28:37
Well Sandy Smith Fischer, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. Good luck in your campaign.
Sandy Smith Fischer 28:37
Why thank you, Katie. It was really nice to meet with you and to have this little bit of time together so that we can answer some of the questions some people have been having.
Katie Olmsted 29:49
Remember, in this STRS election, all votes must be received by May 6 at 4:30pm. Active teachers should have received a ballot in the mail with an invitation to vote by mail, phone or online. If you have not received your ballot or if you lost it, contact the election services help desk right away. There's an email address and phone number in the show notes for this episode, along with a link to learn more about Sandy Smith Fischer. Until next time, stay well. And remember in Ohio, Public Education Matters.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai