4 Go-to-market challenges

Show Notes

There are four common go to market challenges, they should be solved in an uncommon way.

How do you deal with discounts, partnership deals and more - those are just some of the common obstacles that you’ll encounter as you’re bringing your solution to market.

We discuss the logic you can use to solve them the best way possible.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mikkel Plaehn

Marketing leader & b2b saas nerd

Host

Toni Hohlbein

2x exited CRO | 1x Founder | Podcast Host

What is The Revenue Formula?

This podcast is about scaling tech startups.

Hosted by Toni Hohlbein & Raul Porojan, together they look at the full funnel.

With a combined 20 years of experience in B2B SaaS and 3 exits, they discuss growing pains, challenges and opportunities they’ve faced. Whether you're working in RevOps, sales, operations, finance or marketing - if you care about revenue, you'll care about this podcast.

If there’s one thing they hate, it’s talk. We know, it’s a bit of an oxymoron. But execution and focus is the key - that’s why each episode is designed to give 1-2 very concrete takeaways.

[00:00:00] Toni: Hey everyone. This is Toni Holbein. You are listening to the Revenue Formula. In today's episode, we are going through four go to market challenges and how to solve them easily with our logic driven approach Join.
[00:00:13] Mikkel: Is that
[00:00:16] Toni: Another quarter. You missed. Everyone will ask that question now. So I, Toni and Miel talking about Miel crying because he missed another quarter.
[00:00:23] Mikkel: Yeah. It's also just because I'm being abused in the podcast all the time. Being the fall guy
[00:00:43] Toni: you will, you will be the one going to jail
[00:00:45] Mikkel: Yeah. I mean it's also in the show notes. It literally says four guy nickel. So what can you do? What can you do,
[00:00:52] I just wanna say for the record, we have fun. We have fun, we have fun. Yeah, we have fun. How many times I need to say it before
[00:00:59] Toni: I know. I think until you stop
[00:01:01] Mikkel: crying. over engineering intros. That's what we do. I think that's how we're gonna get featured on Spotify,
[00:01:09] Toni: Yeah. Let's go.
[00:01:10] Mikkel: But we're gonna segue neatly again into the subject today. Yeah. Which is. How to acquire a customer and really our way of thinking about it. Our kind of, you know, if you subscribe, like you said, to our approach to problem solving and planning revenue and all that stuff, then there's four very specific problems and ways to think about them.
[00:01:34] Toni: I think this is, this episode is, is about, We are, we're talking a lot about this one approach of how to think about go to market and, current customers and, and using that approach because it's so logic driven. You can use that approach in order to do a, an analysis. You can do it to a revenue plan, you can do an operating model, all of these fancy things.
[00:01:55] But underlying is always a very, straightforward logic, right? And we can call it, you know, the science of this and, and blah. I don't think that's super helpful. but you know, if you use that logic, for some of the problems that have been there for a while, and those are not big problems like, you know, compartmentalized problems, you will, you won't, you know, walk into those problems every day.
[00:02:17] It's kind of a, a special thing, but they're usually kind of hard to crack and usually it's a really long discussion, you know, one way or the other. And, if you use the logic though, that we are what we are prescribing, so to. I think some of those problems will kind of fade away and be totally easy to solve suddenly.
[00:02:36] And I think that's what we wanna talk about today.
[00:02:39] Mikkel: Yeah. And so we have four, and I think before we just jump into the specifics, let's actually just cover them in case you wanna skip over one way. Like Yeah, I know this already. I'm, I'm, I got it on control, Not an issue. Might be helpful. So the first one,
[00:02:50] Toni: is, multi-year discounts. So you have a multi-year deal rep comes to you, Hey, I can send them on a multi-year deal. How? How much discount can we give them because of the multi-year. Right.
[00:03:02] Mikkel: Questionable one. And the other is partnership deals. How much you actually pay for a partnership deal, right? So a case where you have a consultant or you know, whatever, someone that is not operating within your business on your payroll.
[00:03:15] Yes. who needs a commission, obviously from, from giving you that deal.
[00:03:18] Toni: Yep. The another one is, payment terms. is it, is it a good idea to give quarterly or annual? What's the reason to do either or the other?, and then what's the impact on, on your growth and on that customer.
[00:03:31] Mikkel: Yeah. And then the last number four is really how much can you spend on acquiring a new customer?
[00:03:36] And I think this is especially, also something that's gonna be super interesting for, the, you know, more top funnel team. So let's say if you're building outbound or you are running PLG or marketing, right? That, that element, there's gonna be some important thoughts too. So let's, Beautiful. So have your choice.
[00:03:53] There's like four items on the menu.
[00:03:56] Toni: Well, they have to go this order though, people can't skip
[00:03:58] Mikkel: no, that's true.
[00:03:59] Toni:,
[00:04:01] Mikkel: Yeah, that's true. Good point.
[00:04:03] Toni: Logic, Logic
[00:04:04] Mikkel: four guy. Edit it again.
[00:04:05] Toni: Logic guy,
[00:04:06] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:04:07] Toni: okay, so let's go with the multi-year discount.
[00:04:09] So there's usually obviously, hey, you know, if, if you go for the multi-year, 10% maybe is right, 20% is right. sometimes 0% is right. So the question is what is right for you? What is right for your business?, and, and really the way you should be approaching it is, how much. How much, are you winning?
[00:04:30] Are you gaining by locking someone in for two years versus just one? And the inverse here is churn. So if, if someone is going, you know, renewing one year to the next, on average, how many people do you lose in that? Which is called churn, by the way. and that should give you a clear understanding of how much you wanna pay in discount, maximum to basically have that renewal step baked in from the beginning, right?
[00:05:00] That's, that's how you need to think about it. And then in, in reality, what it basically means is if you have an annual churn of, 90%. You should for the multi-year, and you might give discounts for some other reasons, but for the multi-year reason, you should only give a discount of up to 10%. That's, that's the only thing that makes sense.
[00:05:20] If you have, you know, 20% churn, you should kind of consider that. The tricky piece here is now, and, and very strong SaaS companies have started adopting that actually to, ditch multi discounts all together. Why? Because their churn is so low and their upsell is so high that basically for signing someone on a multiyear, instead of giving a discount, they should be asking for a premium
[00:05:50] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:05:51] Toni: because their net retention rate is above a hundred percent.
[00:05:54] They actually gain every year that they have that customer. So locking someone in for two years for the same price is actually, that vendor is losing money on that.
[00:06:03] Mikkel: deal. And I think, by the way, a pro tip here that we haven't talked about is you should consider exporting a bunch of your deals into a spreadsheet.
[00:06:14] Look at, you know, is it multi-year and then the discount. And then start figuring out, are we actually giving more discount than our churn? And do we potentially have, an upside here where we can generate more revenue by having some, some practices in place.
[00:06:29] Toni: Yeah. think about the, So again, there, there, there are different ways of discounting, that you give a discount just because you wanna give a discount.
[00:06:37], and then there's the specific multi-year discount and, and think about trying, you know, separate those two things. And the other piece is really giving discount for multi-year, in many cases actually only makes sense. If you get payment also this year already. So, I basically when, when we were kind of designing some of those, schemes here, commission schemes and, and dinging people for specific discounts as a fault, we used that logic for the multi-year discount.
[00:07:07], hey, it should be less than our annual churn. Yeah. That's how we put it in. and. We had an override and sounds all really complicated, but we had an override if someone was willing to do multi-year. But multi-year upfront, we basically treated this deal commission wise as a, as a full this year deal.
[00:07:27] Yeah. because it gave us so much, you know, additional money we were gonna get, you know, to this. and point number three, and,, that, that's kind. Good to keep in mind. Right. I think the, the multi-year thing changes a little bit if you get all of that cash on day one. instead of, you know, having it broken apart in two payments or two years.
[00:07:45] Mikkel: Yeah. Let's, let's talk to partnerships.
[00:07:49] Toni: Let's hop to partnership deals. so again, the, the, the setup here is you have a partnership motion, and then the conversation usually is, well, how much. Should we give this partner? And there are two main different trends of thought. One is a one off of commission based and the other one is recurring.
[00:08:09] they, they differentiate a lot in, in, in the way you need to think about it. but let me, let me go specifically into the one off. Yeah. and the way to think about comping your partner,
[00:08:22] for, for their contribution and their deals that they're bringing. in a, in a one off scenario is very similar to your thinking about C payback.
[00:08:31] Yeah. So number one, you might have partners that sit very much top of funnel that basically just send you leads. Yeah. and you still need to call them, you still need to, book them, You still need to turn them into a customer and so forth. so, so in this case of a partnership, arrangement where someone is really only sending you some top funnel leads, you need to realize that, fairly sizable chunk of your CAC payback or your CAC.
[00:08:59] Still sits with you, you still need to do all the heavy lifting. So the, the amount of money you should be paying that, that partner should be equivalent actually to what marketing needs to do in order to get something to this MQL stage or something like Right. And that might not be enough, or a lot, but, but that's how you need to think about it.
[00:09:19] because again, all the other stuff still comes downstream. And to figure out, well, maybe they convert a little bit better, that then means you can pay them a little bit more versus differently, right? And, that might amount to, you know, whatever number. and that is actually what you can, what you can,, pay those partners if you have on the extreme opposite spectrum.
[00:09:40] A partner that doesn't only do the top funnel, but does also the sales process, and then basically closes this whole thing for you. The whole thing, the amount of money you can pay in the first year to this partner can be equal. To your customer acquisition costs payback as a whole. So what does that actually mean?
[00:10:02] it basically means you can give that partner a hundred percent and at some point, cases even 150% of the first year deal value. Yeah. So again, translated, if you have a 20,000 euro deal
[00:10:18] That you didn't touch, it was delivered to your doorstep. And this new customer, you know, today, and usually you're paying around one and a half of that.
[00:10:28] So 18 month payback, or you know, 30,000 euros to acquire that 20,000 euros.
[00:10:33] Mikkel: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:35] Toni: Instead of giving your cus, your partner the usual 2025, and when you reach 30% of the initial deal value, you can actually give your partner 150% and you're still making bank. Right. And that, that way of thinking about,, compensating or, you know, paying money for your partnership deals.
[00:10:55] I haven't seen that many places. and your, your CFO will, bark and be like, Oh, you know, are you crazy? 150%. I've never seen this in my career. 25% is, you know, the norm and so forth. That's true. And especially when you established, maybe you can force those, those percentages and that will be fantastic for your payback.
[00:11:15] But maybe if you're early on, maybe you need to kind of get the partnership side cracking and, and maybe then you maybe wanna overpay. However, that thing completely shifts. Obviously, if you have a recurring setup with your,, with your partner and, and you know, one or the other things sometimes makes sims, might, sometimes doesn't, right?
[00:11:35] But if you're initially only on a commission base for the deal, for your partner, and they do all the heavy lifting for. You can basically pay them as much as your tech payback would be.
[00:11:46] Mikkel: And I think also this is a point. We shouldn't get into the nitty gritty of it, but usually we will structure an agreement with that partner and that's where you can lock them in so they don't potentially switch to a competitive if you are in a, you know, competitive space. Right. So there are tricks you can use all of a sudden when you know or realize that, oh wow, we can actually pay a lot more.
[00:12:06] Toni: No, but think about it. So let's just say you have a partner and usually depending on what it is, implementation partner or you know, whatever, they will usually have many of you.
[00:12:16] Toni: And usually their reps can only push one of these different solutions.
[00:12:22] And, and this is, this is how it simply works if the rep gets more money by pushing you versus someone else. They obviously will push you, right? And, if you can afford to pay instead of 25%, 30%, that then will be part of the commission scheme for that, you know, partnership rep. if you can go way higher than that, You have a much higher chance of them bringing you up and, and talking about you and saying, No, actually, you know, solution X, Y, Z I think this is our preferred choice.
[00:12:51] You should totally go with that. And, and this is where this can be super handy and can create a bit of a competitive advantage. How sustainable is it? I don't know. I haven't thought through this. But that is certainly one way of, of, you know, how to kind of getting out with partners.
[00:13:05] Mikkel: At least, at least it opens up the, the playing field for you to find the right setup and solution, so if you're only paying 25% today and everyone is happy and is running, I mean, we're not advocating for you to then go on and bump it up to 150, but knowing that you have opportunities, that's,
[00:13:19] Toni: I think, I think one cool way have we used it actually is, you give partners basically a scale.
[00:13:25] Many times that happens if you bring so many deals per month, per quarter, per year, you're in this bracket. If you're in this, you know, if you bring us so many then in that bracket and suddenly, you know, you start on 20 15, 25 something percent, but then you go into, well if you reach this bracket over here, we actually will pay you a hundred.
[00:13:43] Toni: per customer that you bring, I can just see how some partners would be like, Oh, wow, these guys are stupid. Let's, let's totally go with this thing here,
[00:13:52] Toni: And, and I, I think, I think there's some incentive schemes here that, that work for, for, for partners that, many people just haven't thought about it in, in that kind of sense.
[00:14:04] Mikkel: Should we move to the next,
[00:14:06] Toni: Let's do the
[00:14:07] Mikkel: next. So payment terms, I think it says Yes,
[00:14:11] Toni: Payment terms. So this one is a bit, this one is a bit convoluted potentially. Let's see how we unpack it. So the, the, the basic idea is, and this is a mid-market sale, you ask for 10, 20, you know, 50,000 euros, and you ask for, you know, full year upfront.
[00:14:35] Sometimes that's just an, it's just easy. one purchasing order. If you deal with those kind of customers, it's one invoice, it's one transfer, it's one thing. but obviously, you know, people are cash sensitive. procurement departments get, you know, a little, you know, plus ones if they figure out those payment, payment terms better.
[00:14:53] And, and basically the payment term here that we're talking about is not when, kind of 30 days, 60 days, 90 days later. It is, you know, how many installments. That's what we're talking about, right? And, someone is asking you for quarterly, the question now is, is this deal worth, you know, less, not worthless, but worth less than it was before, yes or no?
[00:15:16] Right?, and, and now you can attack it from two ways. Well, number one, if I close it on the quality versus the annual. but it speeds up the process. So kind of a quasi discount. Basical. Then maybe that's good because most sales cycles go down. that's a plus one. we get more efficient by actually offering this.
[00:15:39] Right. and I think in that sense, you could say ke payback stays the same, right? Because it doesn't matter. So ke payback underlying doesn't actually have that cash collection piece to it. This, you know, different ratio, so yeah, actually you are, it's, it's a, it's. Discount you can give that is non c payback impacting, if you will.
[00:15:58] Right. so in that sense it's kind of cool. So why not? Why not go for it? Why not do monthly, I mean on, let's go, Right? the, the alternative way around it to look at it and, say, well no actually mean to push for the annual instead. And we are rather happy to give a little bit of a discount to get the annual, is.
[00:16:18] in the sense of the ability to recycle the cash. So you have acquired a customer, you almost get all, not usually not all, but most of it, you get back within the first invoice. Let's just say you have a 18 month cake payback. So one and a half years, you get the first, year fully upfront. So out of these 18 month, In your first invoice, you get 12 month paid back immediately.
[00:16:50] The cool thing now is you can take those, those 12 months and reinvest it into your, into your customer acquisition engine immediately. Right. And let's just say there were no, there was no timing constraints. Know that closes and, you know, recycles the media and you close again. If you imagine that, then if, if your, if your CAC payback is, you know, more than one, then it, it will just get smaller and smaller and smaller.
[00:17:17] How much money it can recycle from the same customer, basically. and if it is one, it basically is an infinite kind conversation.
[00:17:24] Toni: Let's, let's pause with that, right? But, that's the idea, right? If you're able to reco. That cash that you spend on acquiring that customer within the first invoice, you are then able to take that money, put it back into hiring more SDRs, hiring more, you know, marketing folks.
[00:17:43] And then generating more cash coming out of that. If, if you, if you phase it out, if you have, you know, monthly maybe, or quarterly, basically will take longer and longer and longer for you to then take that money and put it back into the engine. Right. And you can now run, you know, a couple of different models on this.
[00:18:01] I'm sure that someone has that somewhere. and you will see that the organization. Is able to ask for the money upfront and then is able to, you know, push that money back into the revenue engine is able to grow much, much faster than the other one. so is it, is the deal now worth, you know, space less because you switch from quarterly?
[00:18:24], from annual to quarterly? I would, you know, it's, it's, it's a very, very tricky one and I would actually lean on the, yeah, it probably is a little bit worthless and. You should totally try and, and you know, you can translate this into a, a commission scheme basically for your reps. I think you should ding them.
[00:18:42] I think you should ding them for, a lesser, lesser payment terms than, than you set out for. Yeah,
[00:18:50] Mikkel: Yeah. I mean, because you have the, you know, the money on the table for longer period of time. So luck can happen and you also, you, you know, there are gonna be customers who have a hard time paying on time. So there's a lot of factors that can go into this. But having that, you know, reassurance that, okay, they paid invoice number one, that's 12 months in the bank.
[00:19:09] Yes.
[00:19:10] Toni: And you know, you could almost go the other way around. you could, you could offer a discount to go annual, which is in fact what a lot of SMBs are doing.
[00:19:19] Why do you go on the website? You either have monthly or you have the. I just saw, I broke your, your brain there for a second
[00:19:26] Mikkel: Actually.
[00:19:26] Toni: actually. When
[00:19:28] Mikkel: no, this is common.
[00:19:28] Toni: Yeah, no, I mean, for SMB it's common, but for mid-market it's not common. No. Kind of off a discount to go annual. And, SMBs, it's kind of a normal thing, right?
[00:19:37] You have monthly versus annual. and if you go with the annual option, then you know, it costs 20% The logic here is slightly different though. The logic here is, not necessarily the, the ability to reinvest your money. It's part of it. The other logic actually is that in SMB payment terms frequently or usually, equal, contract length, hmm.
[00:20:01] So if you connect your credit card and it's monthly, it means you can cancel monthly. If you connect your credit card and say annually, that then means, really your contract length is for the whole year, And, then the discount is less so on recycling the cash. It's part of it, but the discount is basically set at a level that is higher than your expected churn for the year.
[00:20:25] Basically, if you give, if your, if your monthly churn is 30, 40%, which is not unusual, SB necessarily, and you put the annual discount to 20%, you're basically making money in that, in that situation, right. and that's why it's set up like,
[00:20:42] Mikkel: I think we should move to the, the last, You can drink your coffee. We need to move to the, the last one. So how much can you actually spend on acquiring a customer
[00:20:51] Toni: Yeah, and I think this is really valuable for me. people sitting live at High Abdo
[00:21:00] Mikkel: Ah, okay. Yeah.
[00:21:02], I thought you were gonna say in the org,
[00:21:05] Toni: we need another, we need another sign here. And, you know. Yeah. No, it's, it's really valuable for people sitting a little bit higher up in the funnel, to use this to rationalize the things they're doing, with the output that they're getting, right?
[00:21:20] Mm-hmm. You and I recently discussed, for example, meetups. Yeah, Yeah. So we are currently doing Meetup monthlies, so Meetup on a monthly, cadence. Different cities, please join us. Ping us where we should have one
[00:21:37] Mikkel: us meeting up. It's
[00:21:37] Toni: Yeah.
[00:21:39] Mikkel: it's
[00:21:39] Toni: that's right.
[00:21:40] Mikkel: interested in, So
[00:21:41] Toni: it's really, it is around revenue operations.
[00:21:43] We usually have like two speakers. It's, anyway, it's fantastic. And, we were thinking, now how much money should we actually be spending on this?
[00:21:51] Right. and it's not a, customer acquisition kind of motion. It would be cool if that came out of it. but really thinking about how much we want to, you know, how much we are spending to, well, what if we were to get a customer every other meetup or whatever.
[00:22:05] then we quickly realized, Actually, no, I think it's, I think, I think we're doing okay. think the money that we are spending and the money that we are potentially getting, I think those two things equal, totally.
[00:22:15],
[00:22:16] having a clear attribution like A leads to B and so forth. but also another example that, that I ran into the other day was, was basically about, and, and maybe it doesn't fit perfectly, but was basically about like a, a webinar, right?
[00:22:30] That someone is hosting, and someone is, let's just say they're spending, I don't know, a bunch of money on LinkedIn or to promote the webinar, right? And I was like, you know what? Instead of using all of this money to put into promotions, we talking tens of thousands of euros here. We're not talking small money.
[00:22:48] You could actually take this money. Fly in and like an maybe not an A-list, but a B list player, into your studio. You record it and just by the way of the name and because it's so interesting and maybe some word of mouth and, some re-shares and stuff, you would probably get even more traffic than you're buying it.
[00:23:07] Right. So really kind of the, the realization, hey, I could spend 50,000 years to get, I don't know, I don't have a great, great example, Michelle Obama or something like that. I think. I think like a president, like a former president. I think you can book Obama obviously, kind of, if you're interesting enough for north of a hundred thousand dollars, I think
[00:23:26] Mikkel: You've been looking into
[00:23:28] Toni: No, honestly, I have because he was at bitten pretzels two years ago or something like that. And the question is not can you afford to get him? Usually that's, that's not the problem. But will he bother to show up basically? Right. Kind of. You need to make it kind of in that sense, worthwhile.
[00:23:43] but you, you're talking for an hour speaking. even for those ALIST players, you're talking, you know, probably 50,000 euros or something like that. and then, you know, how much organic traffic would you get from this? And does that potentially then fit, you know, your customer profiles and thinking about these problems like that makes it, I don't know, It changes, changes the, the equation for me in my head sometimes.
[00:24:06] So that's why, attacking from this angle is, I think super interesting. But I think you had like a, a different, different perspective on this.
[00:24:13] Mikkel: this. No, I think it's sometimes you see a company rent a yacht and invite people Onto the yacht and you go, This is bonkers. This is, this is so expensive. What are they thinking? But the reality is you might think more about how can you be cost efficient in your acquisition when in fact you might be completely underspending. So let's say you spend, I dunno, a a thousand euro from for a marketing sourced opportunity, but the business is okay with you paying 10,000. that completely changes how you go to market in marketing. That might change where you choose to put money in terms of advertising. There's chat around LinkedIn being more expensive than, for example, other social networks. But that might all of a sudden mean, well, the math is totally gonna work out for you, and the math of hiring an Alister or doing a roadshow or
[00:25:06] Toni: whatever
[00:25:06] Mikkel: whatever it is.
[00:25:07] Bringing in that extra headcount might make completely sense, and I think that is actually the important realization. Yes, it's always good to be frugal and be, you know, aware of cost. But are you, that cost, you're basing it off? Is it a figment of imagination? Or is it math? Did, did someone actually tell you this?
[00:25:25] Is, this is actually the, the level
[00:25:27] Toni: and maybe it's either a fifth bullet or it's a, it's a sub segment of this one here.
[00:25:33] how do you, how do you figure out, especially on the marketing side, how do you figure out how much money you wanna spend on an opportunity?, you know, bunch of math and blah, we can talk about it, but what's, what might be easier, just as a comparison, is if you have a outbound team that is creating opportunities, it might be very easy for you from the marketing side to figure out how much you're paying per opportunity.
[00:26:00] Basically you take, you know, the outbound cost as a whole, divided by the amount of opportunities that that team generated. Usually those are two numbers you can easily get. Even finance will give you the, the sum total off that outbound team. and suddenly you get a number that will range from 1000 to 10,000 euros, by the way.
[00:26:18] and that is the number to be in the realm of on your marketing side as well. That's, that's how I would see it. And, If you're vastly more expensive, maybe don't tell anyone in about that. But, if, if you're vastly cheaper, I think there's an opportunity for you to, rethink some of these things.
[00:26:37] Kind of ask for more budget, obviously. That's then that conversation, and, and then have the ability to do some stuff that is a bit. You know, outlier and crazy. I saw some folks doing, ads on cabs in New York City.
[00:26:51] Mikkel: You've been talking about it for years.
[00:26:53] Toni: Yes, it will happen eventually. it's not that expensive.
[00:26:56] I looked into, TV ads not that expensive. You know, everyone is throwing a bunch of money on Facebook and LinkedIn. You don't ex many few people realize how cheap TV and radio actually is in comparison out of home. This whole, you know, poster thing, none of that is actually so expensive. But, you know, once you start thinking with this hat on, like, Hey, this is the money we could actually spend on some of those things, you know, having that in, in comparison is, extremely useful.
[00:27:26] Mikkel: the only caveat I have to this point is
[00:27:29] Toni: is just one,
[00:27:30] Mikkel: just, just one. What's gonna happen if I realize that I can pay three X for an opportunity and I go and ask for the budget?
[00:27:39] There's gonna be some challenges there baked in. Maybe we, it's an entirely different. I'm sorry for bringing it up, but I can just see that being a Okay. Toni Mickel. Yeah. Yeah. Good, good. You're telling me I can actually pay three K, not one K fund marketing source opportunity, but finance, they're saying no.
[00:27:57] Toni: So I think the, the answer needs to be, you need to compare those two channels.
[00:28:01] Mikkel: Mm.
[00:28:01] Toni: and then you need to ask the finance guy the question, why are we paying three times more for this opportunity than for that opportunity if they behaving the same or mine even potentially behaves better.
[00:28:11] Great question to us. You can leave it right there and then, you know, let that person sim on that one because that will. that would be some, some thought that's, that's happening there. And I think then, you know, once you have opened up that argument, the next question then will be, well, okaym on the marketing side, how you gonna, how you actually gonna spend three x the budget?
[00:28:31] And it's like, well, I'm gonna put into Facebook. And then everyone was like, Wow, that, that doesn't work out. So I think, I think, you know, getting the budget and then finding good ways to take it in a scalable manner. Two different things but you know, start opening up the conversation by comparing those two different channels and be like, hey, you know what I'm doing, what they're doing, what doesn't matter, You know, vastly different.
[00:28:53] Why is it vastly different? Actually, I think that's a much better question to ask than an emo budget.
[00:28:58] Mikkel: And I think it's also, you know, it's easy to increase the CAC to triple, but you want to get
[00:29:04] Toni: output. That's it. You've figured it out. Michael
[00:29:10] Mikkel: I'm so good at acquisition.
[00:29:11] Toni: Yeah. okay. Perfect.
[00:29:14] Mikkel: Wonderful. I hope, I hope this was an interesting way to think about some of these conundrums.
[00:29:18] There are definitely more can jump into, but just, try and use it. try and look at some of the discounting elements on multi-year deals. Try and look on the, how you go about terms to fuel the business at the end of the day. These are full, very specific areas where you potentially could fuel a bit more growth.
[00:29:35] Toni: Absolutely. Wonderful. Thanks, Mikkel.
[00:29:38] Mikkel: Thank you Toni. everyone. Thank you, listener. The fall guy.