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This week, we share some exciting news that impacts both of us.
Two founders talk about how to build software businesses that are meant to last. Each episode includes a deep dive into a different topic related to starting, growing, and sustaining a healthy business.
00:19.20
Rick
Um, what's up this week Tyler
00:28.47
tylerking
And I much um, ah yeah, nice. Nice Thursday afternoon here. Um, pretty pretty normal stuff for me I mean we'll go into updates later anything new with you though.
00:38.95
Rick
Um, well can I talk about the thing. Okay, okay, cool. So um, one of if if you listen to our mega episode which I believe was our last episode we shared our goals if you made it what you probably didn't if you.
00:39.73
tylerking
Yeah, we've got we've got a little announcement I'm downplaying it so drumroll. Go Rick.
00:56.63
Rick
Ah, if you made it to the part where we're talking about our goals 1 of my goals was to for 2023 is to figure out how to build leg up benefits which is our software platform for employers. Um in 2023 and um I am not a coder so that was going to require me to ah, go find a contractor. Figure out how to fund that. Um, and so I was like spending most of my holiday break wondering how I'm going to do this thing I get ah a slack message from ah Tyler we we share a slack for the podcast and he says you know what? maybe we should work together on this and I could I could help you with this and ah it made my. Christmas holiday.
01:35.78
tylerking
Cool. Yeah I Yeah I'm honestly I don't know why I didn't consider this earlier but I've been I've been struggling with I've said on the podcast manytimes I I would like to code more I'd like to be more entrepreneurial. And I've been trying to like force those things at lessening cm but the reality is like that that company doesn't need that for me and then it it was just like well you need a coder I want to code. Ah,, let's do let's do something together.
02:05.61
Rick
But and and not there are there are 2 major benefits to this for for me 1 um, Tyler and I have worked together and I think both of us have gotten better. Um, and we were pretty productive when we work together as 22 year olds and I think we'll be even more productive. As well like almost 40 year olds um wow so that's exciting and then second is like I get to work with Tyler again. Um, so I get excited about that. But I sorry the second thing is that Tyler actually has built a similar platform before because what we did at zaine benefits is not too dissimilar.
02:25.35
tylerking
Yeah,, we're old. Um, yeah.
02:43.22
Rick
From um, what we're going to do it like a benefits that there's there's definitely different considerations in terms of tech stack and Apis that are available to facilitate things. But um, in terms of the market. You're very familiar with the market. We're going after.
02:57.30
tylerking
Yeah, well I hope I can deliver and and similarly I'm really excited to work work on this with you I guess update on also like so we're still It's an interesting thing right? 2 people who have a close relationship together potentially working together professionally. I say potential I mean it's going to happen. But 1 thing we have to do is figure out the the details in terms of compensation and stuff like that. We're not going to dive into the details here because we don't have them figured out yet. Um I don't know if we'll share them when we come up with them or not but it's it's an interesting like ah. Just like you you and I had a conversation. We both were very vague about like well here's what I care about minimum and then basically you're going to put a a plan together and kind of bring it to me but I'm sure nothing's going to get in the way of this.
03:48.40
Rick
Yeah I think a couple of things just that that we've talked about that I think might be interesting to people 1 is like we we were we we spent some time articulating to each other what both of us want to get out of the relationship. Um with not not our relationship but the. Business relationship as it pertains to leg up benefits. Um I think it was really useful going through that. Um, ah, no surprises there but but the the key in going through that was oh wow that's important to you? Oh for example, learning what? What was very clear to me having that conversation with you is one of your motivations. Is to ah dive into some of the newer coding technologies and learn those and you know.
04:25.81
tylerking
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, and then yeah I don't know there's like my mind my mind is a buzz with things we could talk about here I don't know like how should we just move on and talk about the things we're doing as individuals or there's you think we should just keep rambling on about.
04:43.13
Rick
What? Well I think there's a couple of things that that I'm learning through this process. Um, for example, like I've I've put a lot of time into ah ah, building out so I have a partner JD who um.
04:43.43
tylerking
How we're going to work together here.
04:56.65
Rick
Put a lot of time into thinking through his compensation about this time last year and if you go back to the podcast around January February. It was a big topic that we talked about um and what were 1 thing we I think that is clear is that what what I've designed for a full time employee partner is ah.
05:04.88
tylerking
Ah.
05:13.72
Rick
Is great for a full-time employee partner but it's not really going to work for um, the arrangement you and I are going to have and so that that you know create some challenges in terms of got to think through this from scratch and kind of build something custom. Um I think that's kind of interesting.
05:21.90
tylerking
Ah.
05:27.95
tylerking
Yeah I I think my dynamic. So so I don't know how much like maybe we skipped a bunch of details and the listeners are like wait. What's going on here but assuming we explain this properly like possibly what happens here is I build some or all of the product you need. So so let's run through some scenarios one is I get you kind of like a starting point kind of maybe not even Mvp like a prototype almost um but it puts you in a better position to hire someone else to come in and take over one option is I build the full Mvp you can start selling it. Maybe I maintain it or whatever. But if if this grows you bring in someone else or maybe a third option is I can maintain it forever or something like that and I do have some kind of long term role. But what we're talking about right now I think we're basically saying let's imagine I'm more like an investor where. Whatever and whatever. Ah value I provide to the company happens upfront mostly and doesn't continue like that. That's that's what we're planning for right now and then maybe we'll reup it or something in the future is that kind of how you're thinking about it.
06:40.39
Rick
Yeah, and that's the main thing is like what this brings up is like like you you know one of the nice things about the way we've structured this or the way we've structured the employee agreement at when fall is or at not wind fall um at Legup Health is we we if an employee leaves. And there's a reverse vesting component so like equity doesn't get locked up it stays operating in the business which is like a huge important thing to me. So how do you How do you do that so that figuring out the right amount that sort of thing is really hard. Um, and ah, but but yeah, like I think one of the things that we've decided is let's not let this like.
07:07.23
tylerking
Yeah.
07:17.41
Rick
Compensation thing around an idea be a blocker for us to get going so we're we're doing. We've we've agreed to a trial run where the milestone is Tyler. You know basically digs in understands the requirements for leg up benefits and so. Starts thinking through some of the things there but builds a generic sort of um I don't know if you want talk about it. Larry Lyville is how you say it larryve. Um, yeah.
07:41.90
tylerking
I think laravell yeah, or that's how I always said it I only read you read these things on Twitter and then you're like have I ever actually heard anyone say that out loud I'm not sure.
07:50.95
Rick
Yeah, yeah, that. But you'rere you're gonna like the the the trial run is basically ah dig into like what the longer term requirements are leg at benefits but actually build something that's pretty generic and not specific to legup benefits and by then we'll have a pretty good idea of like what's the Pace. You know. Um, what is this something you want to do? Um, you know how how far aware are we from something that is valuable to leg up benefits and we can have a more concrete conversation around specific details of how much compensation. Whatever the compensation looks like.
08:18.88
tylerking
Right? Yeah, So after building this kind of hello world prototype thing either of us can walk Away. You don't know me anything I don't know you anything but we did want to say I don't want to like start talking about compensation then. Because it would be a real shame to get that Far. We're both really happy and then we find out we're like in totally different worlds. So We're kind of doing the let's make sure we're close right now and then but we won't actually finalize the deal until we get through this trial run. Yeah,, we'll so I don't know if this is a good model or not but I imagine this type of thing happens for all kinds of people all the time where you're starting a project with a friend or whatever and it's like I think both when we did have our conversation I feel like we were both negotiating against ourselves. You were like no, you should get more than you're saying I was like no I should get less than I'm saying um. And I bet that's common but like it's kind of an awkward conversation to have even when I say especially when you have a lot of trust and the relationship. The personal relationships more important than this one business venture to him.
09:19.50
Rick
Yep, the the main the the main thing I'm trying to optimize for is I think through this is optionality for you optionality like fair optionality like so so that it's um, you know at each stage like everyone feels like they were treated fair. But. There's almost. There's optionality like no one's locked in to something that creates problems for either party. Um, which is really hard to do.
09:42.29
tylerking
Yeah, yeah, absolutely um, can I also tell you did ever tell you why I Zane benefits the company you and I worked at back in the day to ever tell you why I took that job.
09:53.65
Rick
Um, I feel like it was related to Ben and ah was it not I don't remember.
09:59.41
tylerking
Yeah, well so so basically um, so I was in college I I technically dropped out of college to go work there. Um I was in a 5 year program so I dropped out in my fifth year I still got my under my bachelors. But anyway everyone thought I was crazy when I like dropped out of school to move to Utah. Um, my basic theory was like I didn't think I was all that talented but I was like the other people here are on a rocket ship already I'm just going to ride their coattails that that was literally my logic I'm never going to have an opportunity to get rich except if someone else gets rich.
10:24.96
Rick
Yeah, you have to I I remember you've told me this before? yep.
10:35.34
tylerking
And they made the mistake of bringing me on early that was basically my lunch. Um I mean I didn't get rich off it. But I mean it changed my life that that's the the number one best decision I've ever made in my life was taking that risk. Ah now I'm not.
10:39.96
Rick
Ah, would how did that work out.
10:43.16
Rick
I.
10:50.79
tylerking
I'm not primarily wanting to work with you for the money I primarily think it'll be fun to work with you but a part of me is also like maybe I can do a little bit of work Rick and Jd are going to go build an awesome company and even if I just have a tiny little sliver of upside in that hell yeah, um, maybe I can. Anything else and I have like a kind of related but slightly segueing into personal updates should I go with that or you got anything else. You want to say here.
11:14.39
Rick
Why I would just I would just say that like I'm interested in any progress you've made on the trial run component. So if you have any updates There would love to hear it Otherwise we can move on.
11:23.64
tylerking
Yes, sure. so what I'm trying okay so I'm picking a tech stack right now. Um to some extent I want to like run it by you and I already did but also are you really in a position to tell me what the tech stack should be but my logic here is like I can build. Software like a a simple web crud app very very quickly and effectively. Um if you the goal is to build an Mvp as quickly as possible I know how to do that. The thing is I would do it the way I did it in 2010 you know I'd be using pre larave like I'd be using Jquery. PH I mean for people are technically technical basically before react before all that stuff it would work. It would be great I would love working in it. The problem is if you ever have to hire someone else to come in and take that code over they'd look at it and be like okay this was written by a caveman I hate it and you'd have a hard time hiring. Also I want to learn from this project I don't just want to do the stuff I already know how to do so what I'm doing is trying to find a tech stack that is like really popular where you could hire other people in the future to come take it over and they'd already understand how it works the plan is larall postgres. I'm still considering Jquery because fuck all you jquery haters out there. Ah, but basically I'm trying to learn Laville right now. Um, my journey in that. So first of all shout out to listener cam Sloan I met up with him in Whistler when when we're up there is awesome meeting him. Um.
12:51.51
tylerking
He gave me a really great idea which is to talk to Jesse from bento who kind of I don't know if he knew how to code but he did some kind of learning while building bento cam was like go talk to him which I did he said a he hired a coach. Um. But b he just bought a bunch of these boilerplate libraries. You know for Larall you can buy so he he did it in rails but same deal. You can pay like a hundred bucks and get like here's the laralle stripe boilerate like all your billing is handled by this, you just have to configure it. The thing is then you can look at how all that code is written. And like learn how you're supposed to write code in this new way of thinking that I'm not familiar with so I've I haven't so I've got a hello world Larall app going I haven't started using any of these boilerplate libraries yet. But I'm starting to look at that. There's just this massive ecosystem of this stuff I'm trying to wrap my head around but. Sorry I'm I'm rambling so much here.
13:48.81
Rick
This is interesting to me so keep going. Um I pulled up Larry is it say say laville is it Lareville Laville like Larryville Spark is that the stripe ah thing.
13:54.67
tylerking
Larall or I don't I don't know um my mom maybe hang on I took notes here somewhere there's there's like a million of these different. So my understanding of the business model of larall is someone created Taylor Owell I think his name has created it. And it's free open source but then he also created all these other like if you want to do stripe billing use this if you want to have like multitenant user authentication use that and each one of those is like a couple hundred bucks to buy and that's how the business makes money. Um, yeah, it seems seems great. Um.
14:22.41
Rick
Good for him man.
14:29.28
tylerking
Okay, yeah, laraville spark is the billing one and then there's like vapor or I forgot what the other one's called for hosting and then there's jet stream plus livewire plus blade it's just this so the way I like to code the way I've always done. It is like I understand first principles. And how if statements work I know how for loops work I know how databases work I can build pretty much anything at least like in the web development world with that knowledge. Ah there's this other way of doing things which pejoratively sometimes they're called framework monkeys which is like I don't write any code I just. Bycode or use open source code that other people wrote and I just plug it together. It's almost like how no code works right? It's like I've got these 10 different tools I'm plugging together I've always found it more confusing using other people's already working code versus just writing it from scratch. So this is like a whole different mindset for me. Have to read all this documentation. You have to figure out how the pieces fit together. It's it's really, ah, a very serious learning process for me. That's not natural. So I'm if at the end of this I'm really good at it and it's natural I'm going to feel like there's a huge win just for getting me over that hump.
15:39.50
Rick
Interesting. Yeah, it's like working on a puzzle versus painting a picture. It sounds like in.
15:44.61
tylerking
Yeah, just 2 totally different approaches. But the thing is I will say like Jesse from bento being a great example for anyone who bento is kind of like a drip. It's like an email automation tool he ships stuff ridiculously fast and 1 of the reasons is the impression I get is half the stuff he builds. He's just like finding the right boilerplate library and plugging it into what he's got. Um, now there's downsides to that you you know it kind of becomes a bit chaotic. You don't necessarily have as much control over the ux of everything. But. Yeah, it can be really powerful if you're just like someone has already solved this problem I'm just going to plug that solution into what I've already got here. So that's where I'm at I'm kind of just waiting through documentation right now.
16:24.15
Rick
It's cool see Yeah, you're look, you're you're you're at the stage of the puzzle where you're sorting the pieces.
16:32.56
tylerking
yeah yeah I did have I had a very busy week of less annoying. So I haven't made any progress in the last week but ah yeah, that's where I'm at I'm excited. It's so fun to work on a new project.
16:39.10
Rick
Cool. Um I'm curious like um I guess one thing we could talk about is what sort of Cadence so tyler I don't get to talk that much during the week so this is actually when we catch up so you'll probably hear us talking a lot about this as if we don't ever.
16:51.85
tylerking
Um, so.
16:54.26
Rick
We don't have any idea what's going on but like because I don't ah but I'm curious like what? what's the right cadence for us to talk So like do you do you will you just like slack me when you're blocked on something um or have you thought about that.
17:01.74
tylerking
Um, of her.
17:07.56
tylerking
Yeah, so until I start actually building out leg up benefits I want to talk to you and be like like we already had this conversation where I was like what do you think should I use Jquery or there's this new thing called alpine js that I looked at and I don't like and you're just like I don't fucking know like um.
17:22.21
Rick
I.
17:25.24
tylerking
I'm not sure. There's a ton for me to ask from you until I get to the point where it's like I get how the tech works Now we need to figure out how should like what should the app actually be and even then you wrote up this super detailed notion document with what it should do and we worked together building a very similar app in the past. So I'm.
17:34.34
Rick
Cool.
17:44.40
tylerking
Um, like I think I know what it's supposed to be but we'll talk about it then.
17:45.90
Rick
But really I mean the only unique thing about it is the meant like connection of bank accounts and the flow of money like that's the only unique thing.
17:52.34
tylerking
But that's just so for people like leg up benefits What it's going to do is allow employers to reimburse employees for certain types of expenses that's is that correct.
18:07.20
Rick
The only the only thing I would say is ah yes, except sometimes it's not a reimbursement sometimes it's make deposits for um so if you think about it like at the highest level. Ah, it's it's like payroll for benefits where a company says here's. X dollars per year. Let's say it's $10000 per year and the employee can decide I want to use that money to fund my personal retirement account my personal five Twenty Nine account which is an education savings plan in the us my hsa health savings account or reimburse eligible expenses.
18:41.83
tylerking
Well.
18:42.20
Rick
So It's reimbursed plus ah fund pretext ah accounts. But the difference between like traditional like offerings in the Us is that ah, most of the time the employer controls the accounts and you have to like there's this huge like portability issue. Um, ah where like you have a 4 1 K and you have to transfer it into an Ira. This just goes directly into an Ira from the employer without there being the need for like a 4 1 K administrator.
19:07.38
tylerking
Oh so Okay I misunderstood that then um, man listeners are hearing us figure out what app for building live. So um, because yeah I was imagine the the employer has a bank account with a bunch of money in it and it's kind of like running payroll and gusto. It's like.
19:12.54
Rick
Yeah, we're gonna We're gonna be fine guys. We're gonna be fine.
19:25.60
tylerking
Push the button I was imagining a CH transfer a certain amount to each employee's account but you're saying for 1 employee it might be like put this much in their checking account send that amount to vanguard or whatever.
19:36.80
Rick
Yeah, so for me like I'd be pretty a pretty extreme use case. Um, so leg up ventures offers this. We have an Mvp through we're yet leveraging expenseify for the distributions and then I'm actually manually doing this for my own personal stuff but like Ira I have an ira ah with vanguard.
19:52.60
tylerking
Um, a.
19:53.65
Rick
Ah, good example I have a five twenty nine account with um Utah five twenty nine or my five twenty Nine I think it's called I have an hsa with health equity and I have a checking account I'd want to be making deposits into all 4 of those. Yep yep.
20:05.51
tylerking
Do those all get funded via a CH okay okay, as long as is AcH who cares? but I okay I didn't know I didn't know you could just like do an a CH transfer into like an hsa all right? cool? Um, but yeah I think it'll yeah yeah, yeah for sure.
20:15.25
Rick
Yeah, pretty. But but you get it now. That's cool right? and then the hsa contribution is deductible for the employer and the employee the Ira contribution is deductible for the employer and the employee um and this is just like it's like free money. It's it's costless.
20:33.19
Rick
So if you think about the funds for the employer like they they basically um at a certain level pay for it pays for itself from ah a tech saving standpoint.
20:41.74
tylerking
Yeah, cool. Um I mean this is better but very similar to what we built back in like 2007 or whatever. And yeah, there's there's a good business here I think.
20:51.42
Rick
Yeah, and the the crazy thing is like building this in 2007 you'd have to like build your own like AcH was like this notcha file hell now.
21:02.42
tylerking
Oh my god we generated a text file and Ftp it to a bank server. That's how we did a CH transfers back? Yeah yeah, know it should. It should be cool. Um.
21:04.97
Rick
Now there's like all sorts of Apis to just like facilitate this. We also built hubspot salesforce what else do we build.
21:17.72
tylerking
Yeah, we built internal tools to do all of those things all our our own website analytics. Yeah I'm not building new spaming tools this time. Um, so yeah I'm sure we'll talk about like.
21:23.63
Rick
Spamming people via email marketing. You didn't eat it. You didn't like that. Yeah.
21:35.70
tylerking
I'm interested from listeners like how much of this made sense because like like Rick said we don't talk about this much just because we're both busy like this isn't either of our full time job. Um, is this an interesting thing for us to actually like workshop it live even though maybe it doesn't make much sense or is it more like let's figure our shit out. And give a couple updates about what's going on I'd I'd love to hear from people. Yeah ah, cool. But so maybe to segue onto something related but different I have 99% decided to do a sabbatical this ah this spring
21:55.28
Rick
I'd be and I'd be interested in that feedback too. So yeah, happy to.
22:10.51
Rick
Oo interesting timing would the sabbatical be like no work at all or would the sabbatical be go work on a special project.
22:11.16
tylerking
Yeah.
22:16.99
tylerking
Go work on who knows what that project might be but ah, no yeah, so less knowing serum has this benefit every 3 years employees can take a sabbatical which is six weeks paid and then you can optionally extended another six weeks unpaid if you want um I would just do the the six weeks paid
22:34.10
tylerking
Ah, what I'm thinking about doing so I've never done this before I've been at the company 13 years never taken a sabbatical I've been even prior to this I was like I should take one a because it would be fun and b it's not a great look for like the Ceo to be like you know, no like yeah we have a sabbatical but the Ceo's never taken 1 that's not a good luck. Um. So what I was thinking about doing is I'm probably going on going to tell your I I'm not 100 % sure Michael if you're listening let me know. Ah it's his uncle's place. Um, if I do that I would probably start the sabbatical with that trip just so I don't have to use vacation days on that and then. Fly out we you and I talked fly out to Utah for maybe ten days and do like to It's so funny. We just did the year end recap everything we said in that is completely blown up all my goals have changed now. But 1 of the things you said in that is you haven't like I used to go out to Utah a couple times a year and do this like 10 ish day just like. Work all day and all night except for when you and I are hanging out sprint and what we said last episode is I was like I just don't have that kind of work at lessening serum that like you can't work all night on email like it just like sending emails so it doesn't make sense. This is the type of project is a perfect type of project to just binge for.
23:42.76
Rick
Yeah.
23:51.28
tylerking
A week so I think I would fly out to Utah do a week there and then the remaining four weeks or however much is left I'd be in St Louis I'd probably still do a day a week at less annoying because I I don't like the idea of like letting stuff build up too much but then the rest of the time I'd be on like up benefits probably.
24:05.45
Rick
Oh I'd be so cool man it's exciting. Yeah.
24:10.13
tylerking
I'm excited for it. Yeah and I So One of the things I want to be really cautious of is like I don't want the excitement of the new thing to in any way like there's no question lessennoing Serum's my priority. No question. But I think like long term this is going to be really good for my involvement at less annoying because. Like I said earlier I Want to be an entrepreneur I Want to code. That's not what less annoying needs from me and so if I can do those things more like as a hobby or as a side project I think it's going to leave me. We'll see I could be wrong about this. But I think it's going to leave me really refreshed to like do the stuff that I need to do but that's not maybe my favorite to do. Day to day a less annoying.
24:48.85
Rick
Yeah, it's interesting. You know or it will totally distract you and you'll be like I can't do this anymore right? like? um so it'll be interesting. Yeah, ah how how much of like not having something like this as a side project is keeping you from being the best Ceo you could be. That's the interesting question.
24:51.63
tylerking
Yeah, that's possible too.
25:05.00
tylerking
Yeah, and I don't think it's that it's like actively making me worse. But what I think it does is it hurts my longevity in the sense that like I it's It's a constant distraction for me thinking like.
25:06.38
Rick
Um I.
25:19.67
tylerking
Like I've tried to start side projects and like I should do something and I have this guilt this voice in the back of my head saying like is this do you really want your life to be meetings all day you know and I'm I'm hoping that it's not that it makes me better in those meetings. It's not that it makes me better at being a Ceo. It's that I won't. I'll just be refreshed and I'll be like I'm getting this other I'm scratching this other itch outside of work and then I can come into work and just own what my role needs to be a less annoying which actually this week I've been more engaged with less annoying and and actually worked longer hours or less annoying than I have in a while and I think it's in part because.
25:49.22
Rick
Let's go.
25:58.77
tylerking
I'm not trying to to scratch this edge there anymore.
26:01.92
Rick
That's great I mean um I would love to be the beneficiary of of this. So thank you.
26:08.70
tylerking
Likewise I think we're both going to benefit here if this goes well um, let me see I had some notes here. Yeah I think I think I talked about everything related to this to working together. Yeah, anything else should we just move on normal updates.
26:22.32
Rick
Ah, yeah, let's move on. We'll we'll definitely have progress to report in two weeks so
26:24.47
tylerking
Cool, Yeah, um, well I feel like I did I did most the talking there. What you you want to go first here with the updates.
26:32.45
Rick
Yeah, so um, I didn't have this on here but I just massively cleaned up our financials. Um, that's 1 thing that like this puts pressure on too is like oh. We've got ah another partner I've got to be more thoughtful about like how I communicate you know it adds this like a little bit of ah fiduciary responsibility that I got to start thinking about so but anyway I cleaned up and started really analyzing where our money went last year and um.
26:51.77
tylerking
Oh.
27:01.91
Rick
Was really useful. Ah so ah, we where we spent you know $15000 ish on marketing last year and when j d and I were looking at it we had we looked at one line and it was tools and we were we spent $5000 on marketing tools. Um, a lot of that was outreach software like email marketing software and but. I thought like I was going to have to come in and say j d like this seems like ah not a good use of funds like because we could put that money into purchase leads and he had already canceled it so it was it was one of those moments where you're thinking the same thing and you're not sure if it's a kind. But anyway we were going to redeploy like $5000 that was like going into subscription costs into.
27:29.87
tylerking
That's awesome.
27:41.50
Rick
Probably purchasing leads which we discovered actually was a good ah roi.
27:43.72
tylerking
Yeah, that's great. This strikes me as this a similar category of problem I've had many times where you try to optimize something. That's not big enough to optimize and it's like throw away the tools stop doing analysis and just go go do the fucking work kind of.
28:01.27
Rick
Exactly exactly? Um, but ah the the big update for me is like 1 of the this is one of the busiest. So Jd's busiest time is definitely November December during open enrollment. My busiest time is the first week of January because I own the product.
28:02.22
tylerking
Yeah.
28:17.86
Rick
And so I have to go in and make a lot of updates seasonal updates to the platform. So I did all that I completed the transitions from like our 2022 plan database to our 2023 plan database I improved a ton of automation. It's amazing. How much I've learned in terms of stringing these apps together with a little bit of code. Um. and and logic it's pretty fun. Ah so jd canal like add policies I implemented have you ever heard of airtable interfaces. So what airtable the first thing airtable built was basically ah, a spreadsheet right? like it was a better spreadsheet.
28:46.70
tylerking
Um I don't think so.
28:54.29
Rick
And then they started building things on top of it so you could build scripts on it. They've now created this new section called interfaces and it's basically a a is wyzzywig the right term Yes, so you can like basically design um an interface around your database. Um, that.
29:02.88
tylerking
What she see is what you get.
29:12.42
tylerking
Um.
29:13.18
Rick
Let's a non-technical a less to I shouldn't say non-tenal a less technical user. It allows you to control people's um, view and like access to the database either through reporting um or lists or buttons. Um or like forms to add or remove. Ah, rows to the database and so um I implemented ah ah Mvp admin portal for Jd which basically lets him do a lot of the work that we were like doing through email and cut out probably cycled hours of cycle time a month. Um, so there's little things like that that we implemented that. That came out of this with it was pretty fun. But I I highly recommend. Um, if you if you haven't played around with the airtable. You can do some really cool Mvp stuff around apps with the database and the interface tool I mean you can create buttons forms reporting charts all all in minutes.
30:04.82
tylerking
Yeah I remember back in the day we did a little pair programming you needed some javascript in airtable and we kind of pair programmed on it and I was maybe this is what you're talking about here but I was really impressed how they let you just put a button on every row of what's effectively spreadsheet you press the button and it runs your code. And so the code can be like build this user or email this user the monthly summary or whatever so by writing like twenty lines of Javascript and just plugging it into this massive infrastructure that airtable has you've you've got all the backend admin like you wouldn't want to you wouldn't want your users using this interface. But. Every Sas app has this like back office admin thing and it sounds like you can just replace it entirely with airtable.
30:46.60
Rick
A thousand percent and one of the one of the cool. What what? I'm finding it useful is a lot of the things that I've been doing manually every month is is sort of like on the weekend I can now create an interface that is simple enough where jd can do it successfully without like huge risk for error. Or we could hire like an intern or a product ops type person to do it. So um, it makes it super scalable.
31:09.14
tylerking
Um, yeah, that's cool larave has a plug and play all your admin tools automatic thing. Sorry I.
31:18.14
Rick
It feels like it feels like I'm going to like like like poking around larave at some point when I have time I don't know when that'll happen but like it seems like the next step for me potentially from the nocode low-code space to maybe a framework like that.
31:32.63
tylerking
Um, yeah, yeah, that might be um.
31:38.60
Rick
I'm definitely more of a puzzle person by the way than a artist.
31:40.89
tylerking
Yeah, what see what I'm bad at sorry to go back to that old the same topic. But what I'm bad at like in school if they were like read this paper or read this textbook and solve the problem actually sorry sorry no I came up with a a good analogy can I go on like a 5 minute rant here.
31:56.46
Rick
Yes, yes, yes, yes, no I took physical science but it was not physics.
31:59.90
tylerking
Did you take physics in high school or college. Um, okay, normal I took a ap physics in high school and then like physics one and 2 in college. The first semester of college physics and ap physics in high school are taught. It's like newtonian physics and the problems tends to be something like. You have a cannon pointed at a ° angle it shoots a cannon ball at a velocity of however, many meters per second and then it's some question like how far did it go or how long was it. They give you some of the variables and they ask you to fill in the other ones between all these and the way they teach it is they give you like 20 different formulas. And it's like okay if you know the angle. Ah the time in the air and the distance you can calculate the velocity or if you know if you know Xyz you can calculate a if you know a Xy you can calculate z and there's all these different formulas and you just know you pick which formula to use you plug in the right things and it gives you the right answer does that make sense like. How it's taught the problem is you have to memorize like a million formulas and and not only do you have to memorize him you have to like know when to use the right one. There's a different way to solve all these problems which is like if you've taken Calculus and you can have you taken calc to like doing an integral. You can just be like gravity is.
32:56.53
Rick
Yep.
33:14.89
tylerking
It's been twenty years but I think negative Nine Point Eight meters per second squared. Whatever gravity is that's all you have to know and then you can be like I'm going to integrate gravity and that gives you whatever the the velocity function is and I'm going to integrate that and get the position function and then I can plug in all the constants I know you can solve every single. Newtonian physics problem at least that's taught in first semester physics just if you know basic calculus you don't need to memorize anything. Yeah, you can just derive the solution because you understand how the world works sort of and I feel like the type of coding I like to do is like let's understand how the world works.
33:39.10
Rick
It's the it's how the formulas are built. On.
33:50.49
tylerking
And then let's just solve everything from there and the way this kind of more frameworky plugin a bunch of open source libraries into each other is like someone's already done this. There's an equation which is much simpler but you have to know which equation to use you have to have them all Memorized. You have to plug them together. That's not how I did physics and that's also not how I code. Yeah I Want to change my brain because the world you know the world is built on layer upon layer of abstraction and I think that like it's just impractical not to accept this new layer of abstraction Anyway, okay.
34:11.31
Rick
Ah, this will be interesting.
34:26.30
tylerking
Back to our updates.
34:28.30
Rick
I'll kind of wrap mine up real quick. So like the the 2 things that are sort of my focus now is we have an annual offsite that we're but that we were starting. It's a ritual. We're starting for leg up in ah and February and so Jd's book just ah, hotel flight for a long weekend here I think the last week of February and ah I mostly just wanted to talk. You know, share that that's happening and um, you know I think I want it to be a ritual The main goal is for us to like talk about spend time together.
35:01.38
tylerking
A.
35:03.37
Rick
And talk about things intimately and like deeper than we get to on a week to week basis we're we're actually creating ah j d's leading the the the the structure of the offsite. Um, but you know there's a mixture of like ah he and he's going to come in on Friday and he's going to schedule a bunch of meetings with potential partners and customers. And like Friday's going to be his day and he'll bring me in. We may do so like an event Friday night saturday is going to be like just us in a room. Um.
35:28.26
tylerking
Sorry this the stuff with customers is just him doing his job with customers are like. Are you going to be a part of that in any way.
35:35.69
Rick
I told him like if he wants me to be involved I'm happy to um if we do an event Friday night and invite people I would be a part of that but probably not during the day meetings. Um, and then Saturday would be um, like working sessions and like presentations and that kind of stuff. Um and then.
35:41.63
tylerking
Okay, cool.
35:53.80
Rick
Skiing on Sunday um, and then fly out Monday so we'd have a dinner probably Saturday and maybe ah, ah something fun Sunday um, but anyway like I I I'm I I hope I'm not overthinking this but like I I just wondered if you had any tips um on how to make this like I think. I want what I want is for February to be this massive reflection time period for the the business because this business is so seasonal. Um, it's there's going to be a huge sprint from October to January and then I I basically don't want to I want people to like come together get on the same page get motivated for the next open enrollment which is like almost a year away.
36:18.69
tylerking
Yeah.
36:31.91
Rick
Um, and then like you know, kind of go back to normal.
36:33.61
tylerking
Yeah I probably over fixate on like culture and traditions versus like getting the job done. Are you more interested in getting the job done really well or like setting this up as kind of like a cultural. Cornerstone of the company.
36:53.27
Rick
I I think I'm more interested in the latter I'm the cultural cornerstone I think I think part of the reason I'm doing this is because I never did this well at people keep um and I've seen you do it? well.
36:57.17
tylerking
Okay.
37:08.49
Rick
I Want to have this thing where people like expect it know it and feel special for having been a part of it. Um, and when they if they leave the company they're like man I miss doing that? Um, if they you know when they join the company they're like have you? Oh you're the the rich annual rituals coming up like.
37:13.13
tylerking
Um, yeah, um.
37:27.42
Rick
Ah, can't can't wait. Um, that kind of thing So I want it to be more fun and inspiring than ah effort like full of effort.
37:33.11
tylerking
Yeah, okay, which which makes sense especially because in our last discussion our last podcast episode you said like for 2023, it's all about execution. You already know what you need to do anyway. So like you don't need some kind of master summit strategy thing. Anyway, yeah I don't know this is so hard because 10 years from now you're going to look back. And there are going to be things from like the the most fun things 10 years from now are going to be traditions you start now that don't make any sense. It's going to be like oh yeah, you know we always spin in a circle 3 times when we end up walking a door or yeah, that's a bad example which is like there's some quirky thing that. Caught on and we do it and new hires. Do it too and they don't know why and it's because j d did it in 2023 you know that's like what a lot of fun company culture stuff ends up being but the problem is if you try to do that. It always ends up being really cringe I don't know how to balance those things like how to. Intentionally create tradition. You know.
38:33.66
Rick
In this case, maybe I stop worrying about tradition and just focus on this event. Um and say hey like we don't ever see each other in person this is about you and me spending time in person if this never happens again. That's okay.
38:41.48
tylerking
Yeah, well or like yeah if you just make this event as fun as possible. The next time you do it What you're going to naturally do even if you're not thinking about tradition at all the things that were the most fun you're going to be like let's do that again and the things that sucked or you or were Forgettable. You're you're going to so replace him with something else and after you repeat something a few times because it was just good. So yeah, probably the key is just do good shit. So How do you have fun with this. You know three days or whatever you said, you're going skiing that sounds awesome.
39:14.62
Rick
Skiing will be fun I think this Friday I think if we can play this Friday event and make it not um, formal and just say hey we're going to go do something and come along if you want to kind of thing I think that. Could be fun I think if we try to make it this formal thing with invites and like Rcp like it takes the fun out of it I don't think we like we're going to go do some? Yeah if you lived here we invite you? Um, if friend. Yeah company friends.
39:33.65
tylerking
For like I mean you and Jd are both going I assume yeah, you can invite your friends and stuff like that. Yeah, that reminds me of one of our traditions which we're actually doing tomorrow night coincidentally which is in San Francisco we did all our celebrations by going to this restaurant called shabu house I know I've told you about this before and we invite you know it's just like me and bracken and Michael like so we would invite 10 15 other people and they all celebrated with us I do think that's a great for a small company where like you can't do. Fun gatherings with just the 2 of you sorry it can be fun, but it's like different with 2 people. Yeah I definitely think inviting others and making them a part of the success and having them rooting for you and then you know again, you don't want to force it but 10 years from now people will you hire will be like man. It would have been fun to go to those. I almost think the goal is for 10 years from now for people to like really wish they could have been a part of the things you're doing with Jd on this weekend.
40:34.60
Rick
That's interesting. Yeah, that's that's that's a good there's there's a there's a diagram of like people um like like people who work at Legup Health and people who are fans and like part like not partners but like basically partners of leg up health and like getting.
40:45.96
tylerking
Ah.
40:50.83
tylerking
Yeah I do right? Yeah, so probably take all the pressure off yourself just try to have a ton of fun try to make it memorable and then next year like iterate. Yeah sorry I don't have anything more insightful than that.
40:50.91
Rick
All those people in the same room would be really fun if it's easy.
41:04.53
Rick
Make it better. Yeah cool. Well now that now that I've ah like all the pressure is off for this annual offsite. My full attention is is turning to leg up benefits now.
41:09.93
tylerking
Um.
41:15.94
tylerking
Nice I like the sound of that um, is there anything you can do while I'm learning the tech like what what's on your list for it.
41:25.19
Rick
Yeah, my biggest learning from this past year is what I'm pretty good at especially in this business because I know the market and the product so well because I've thought about it for 1020 years is I can really think through messaging and like starting to generate. Um.
41:41.97
tylerking
You know.
41:42.80
Rick
Demand. Um, and so I need to start talking to people and figuring out how to explain this to people. Um, and I can start doing that tomorrow. Um, you don't need a product for that. So I think I'll start thinking through how to position it I think what? what'll be interesting for us to to sort of align on is what can't. You know you know that like classic ah seller founder versus cto founders like what can I sell versus what you know like I you know I think I'm going to probably focus on selling vision for now. Um, and and what like the ideal messaging is but at some point we're going to have to go. Okay, what are they actually buying the first time.
42:03.61
tylerking
The.
42:18.16
Rick
Because that's probably like a sliver of the vision. Um, and ah you know I So I don't know I don't I can't I don't know that until we're further along.
42:24.60
tylerking
Yeah, but this is kind of where we're actually going through a similar exercise a less annoying right now are like okay, there's 20 things we want to build? What's the first. What's what's what 1 thing are people most likely to buy before we have the other nineteen things and it sounds like but it's kind of the same exercise you need to go through.
42:42.50
Rick
Yep yep, um I'm not going to worry about that right now though I'm going to try to go like hey if we had this I'd like to get 10 to 20 It'd be really cool if by the end of court q 1 we've got 10 to 20 ah beta testers on.
42:42.79
tylerking
Yeah.
42:57.16
tylerking
Yeah, you already have 2 customers you said right? like.
42:57.56
Rick
On standby. We lost 1 this open enrollment period. Um, they stayed as leg up health clients but did not continue with the employer program. Um, ah just that we need something that is a higher value proposition than.
43:09.20
tylerking
Learn anything from that.
43:16.20
tylerking
Yeah, it wasn't a real product. Do you do you think you would have kept him if it was a real product.
43:16.77
Rick
Ah, spreadsheet yeah hard to say because it's um, they aren't they are not contributing ah ah to their employees. Ah so um, we don't I guess like the the catch with our current benefits.
43:27.64
tylerking
Okay.
43:35.46
Rick
Leg up benefits customers is that they are not contributing. It's mostly them paying for a premium concierra service. Ah twenty bucks per month.
43:40.80
tylerking
Got you because that is you're charging or you I know you want to charge I don't know what you're charging your current people. Twenty bucks per yeah per employee which if these are almost by definition people who don't have group insurance right.
43:53.90
Rick
Um.
43:54.70
tylerking
And that that is something now you you said I think something earlier that answers this concern for me but in my head I'm like you know that's $20 is obviously a lot cheaper than group insurance. But it's not like way way. It's not like 2 orders of magnitude cheaper if they can afford $20 per employee per month. Why not just buy group insurance and I think the answer is what you said earlier that. They save so much money on taxes that it's actually free to them if they contribute.
44:17.34
Rick
Yeah, so our competition and this particular industry space is not group health insurance. Um, we we're going to be walking into companies that don't offer group health insurance because they either can't afford it or can't meet participation requirements for some other reason. Um, so our competition is actually wages. Um, and so. You know what we have to articulate is that um one if you are going to give some people raises this year don't instead give them a benefit which is more tax efficient and then um, yeah, they value it higher and then your cost. Ah.
44:43.51
tylerking
Um, and they value it higher.
44:51.32
Rick
Of offering leg up benefits will be covered by the tax savings you receive on the dollars that you spend um and and that's ah, that's the main value represent.
44:58.47
tylerking
Um, it'd be this probably doesn't make sense but it'd be really interesting to charge based on tax that you probably won't know the actual tax savings but basically like you only get you charge a percentage of the payments you make or the money you transfer. That we know is tax deductible or something like that that'd be pretty interesting.
45:18.22
Rick
Yep, totally um the ah yeah, and then what's cool about that is like a lot of the I believe the AcH transaction fees are are are dollar based and transaction based um so the cool thing about that is you could actually you know.
45:30.80
tylerking
Yeah, it's like a dollar version action.
45:34.71
Rick
Makes ensure that you cover the cost and in ah terms of usage of those Ac Apis Um, but it's um I think I think it'll be harder to explain than a pepm. Um, so yeah.
45:38.55
tylerking
Um, yeah.
45:41.98
tylerking
Yeah, that's fair, this is the thing that always happened at Zane Benefits is Paul our boss would always go out and talk about tax savings and everyone's like what I I don't I'm not an accountant like stop talking about taxes.
45:56.93
Rick
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what gets people's attention I think it's going to be what what I think Simple simple benefits is probably going to be our core value proposition. Um, ah, simple better benefits something like that.
46:03.39
tylerking
Yeah, yeah.
46:09.80
tylerking
Cool, um all right updates for me. Um I'm head now to Vermont on Monday to go to big snow tiny conf have we talked about this on the podcast. Do you know what? that is big, big snow tiny compf.
46:12.74
Rick
Just. No, what What's this never heard a tiny conference I assume that it's related to the tiny Vc fund all right I have no idea what it is.
46:29.71
tylerking
It is not so it is you would only have heard of this if you listen to like a couple specific podcasts because it is a I think 10 person conference or something like that. Um, so I it one of there's kind of 2 creators. 1 is Brian Castle
46:36.99
Rick
That is amazing.
46:46.10
tylerking
Ah, zip message I listen to his podcast bootstrapped web like it a lot. Um I would not be surprised if he's listening to this right now. Hi Brian ah so he hosts this I guess every year where it's like invite a few people to get some airbnbs and go so skiing or snowboarding and. I think the morning is skiing and then the afternoon's kind of like talks and like just mastermind sessions and stuff like that. So I've heard about it on his podcast a million times and I was always like damn it'd be cool to like be on the inner circle of a cool founder group and then this year he invited me and I was like secretly like yeah. Made it. Ah so we'll go out there and and see how that is I've never done East Coast snowboarding before? Yeah yeah, I'm I'm coming from whistler so like ah it's going to be.
47:24.20
Rick
That's awesome. Ah.
47:32.40
Rick
I've heard for monthss. Not bad I'm interested in what hell this know how you say the snow is.
47:40.40
tylerking
It's going to be a tough comparison for Vermont um, aside from that some less annoying stuff. We launched our new api officially which is it has literally been ongoing for two and a half years so this might be our longest running project ever and we launched it and that feels good.
47:57.33
Rick
So what? Um, what does that unlock for you guys.
47:58.95
tylerking
Yeah, so for our typical customer it does not directly benefit them at all most of our customers are not technical enough to use an api directly but some are like we have especially our bigger customer like no big customer uses any crm without using the api. And example, being they might be like ah I need to like I've got 100000 contacts in the crm I need to loop through them every single night and find anyone that matches some criteria and move them into our backend system like they they all like if if a company's big enough. They have some custom code or something that they need to. Pull or push data to and from our old api sucked. So like if they had 100000 records they could pull out 500 at a time that get all hundred thousand through whatever that is 200 Api calls loop through them all and find the ones they were looking for. Um now they'll be able to be like. I want anyone with this zip code. Give it to me, you know or whatever. Ah, it just does a lot more like before you could like get context create tasks. That's about it now, you can do anything.
49:05.83
Rick
How do you handle like people that maybe ah, do you have rate limiting.
49:11.22
tylerking
Um, let's say we do in case, any nefarious people are listening. But no what what happens is if we get hammered. We we notice our server is getting hit and then we track it down to an api user and we handle it ad hoc.
49:15.94
Rick
Okay, ah.
49:27.30
tylerking
Rate limiting is a thing we're going to build soon? Um, but this should reduce the load quite a bit because again instead of 200 Api calls they can just use one now.
49:27.35
Rick
Okay, cool.
49:38.66
Rick
That's yeah, interesting.
49:40.30
tylerking
But yeah, you just do a lot more with it that will help our bigger and more tech savvy customers but it will also you know I've been doing this push to get more third party integrations with us. This is a big part of that. So some of the new ones actually are already using this even though it wasn't launched like we kind of people were beta testing it. Um, but it should be a much more appealing platform for other developers to integrate with us so speaking of which anyone out there who I haven't already talked to that has a saas app that could reasonably integrate with lessening crm the sales pitch is we have 25000 users and hardly any integrations.
50:02.10
Rick
E.
50:14.48
tylerking
So if you build an integration we'll push it out to all of our users and it's just a ah free source of leads for you reach out to me dm me on Twitter. Okay, that's my sales pitch this this podcast is sponsored by less annoing serum. Um, yeah, it's done. There's still work to there's still we we still want to add webhooks and there's other stuff we're going to do but. Getting that launched is a big a big win for us. We also are days away from pushing the publish button on our zapier integration. Yeah, now that they still have to prove it so ah like it's like submitting it to their app store. So I don't know there may be some a week or two lag time there. Maybe they'll come back to us and.
50:41.35
Rick
Really.
50:53.40
tylerking
Tell us to make changes but all the work We know we need to do is basically done.
50:58.37
Rick
Ah, this is great. Um, do you think that you have like a front integration in your future. Okay.
51:04.64
tylerking
I Really doubt it just because our typical user is not a front user even though we are and when you say a front integration you want to sync contacts back and forth.
51:17.59
Rick
No, we want want like a interface overlay so that when you're emailing someone it pops up like ah their their their record in pipe drive. For example.
51:24.93
tylerking
Oh it doesn't Okay, so just to be clear. It's not that it pushes the data for the contact to front and loads the contact data there. It's that it loads the pipe drive data from within fronts interface that actually sounds a lot easier to build.
51:30.57
Rick
That it does. But.
51:41.96
tylerking
I Hate I'm I'm like done with back and forth sinks back and forth sinks are the worst but that's not sinking so that.
51:47.60
Rick
No, it's like basically ah saying real time validation of like hey this person's in pipe drive or not in pipe drive and then what like that person's status is in pipe drive in the in the front. Ui.
51:52.64
tylerking
Um, yeah.
52:03.26
tylerking
I I don't think I've ever heard anyone ask for front integration so we probably wouldn't do it but that does sound a lot more achievable than I originally thought. Um no we have we have our front flow working just fine for us to be honest.
52:10.41
Rick
Don't you need that for your own customers.
52:19.26
tylerking
When something comes in we I built an api integration that just like puts all the information ah in the thread for us. It sucked though. Maybe yeah, maybe we should use that.
52:26.94
Rick
Custom code. Are you.
52:36.12
Rick
Um, that like the yeah, the only I mean that's like the only thing like when she have zapier I mean we could switch to you guys.
52:36.21
tylerking
That's not going to happen but I'll put some thought into her.
52:45.33
tylerking
Interesting I Still I'd be. You know what? I'd love to do sometime just like if I can steal some free time from you is like evaluate if that's actually true like because what sometimes this is like such a hard thing about like um product like feature Discovery like figuring out what to build is.
53:03.34
tylerking
Let me give you a little anecdote Alex our kind of sales guy who talks to our more enterprisey type clients they come in. They're like let's start with this. Do you have outlook integration and we do now but we didn't used to and he'd be like no, we don't they'd be like oh well we use outlook that integration is key talk like let let us know if that changes by. So Alex was saying we've got to build outlook integration. We're going to get so many more big clients when we do we build it and then they're like oh you've got outlook integration. Great. Do you have Quickbooks integration and then no. So we still. We didn't get any of these new people because I was just the first of many things I'd love to learn is front. The first thing that comes to mind that would be a deal breaker or like would the product actually work. Otherwise.
53:49.54
Rick
Is that? yeah, that's the that. Well I would say that it's not important to us today. But it's important to us 5 hires from now which is far away which maybe like I'm talking out loud that it's not that big of a deal for us. Um, but yeah, that's the main like.
53:56.58
tylerking
For.
54:06.22
Rick
If you think about like our core our core like workflow. It's front and then it's airtable like and so zapier can give us ah use you know functionality from airtable. Um, and we could probably get away with what we have for front now because you integrate with G suite right.
54:24.69
tylerking
Um, I mean calendar and context. Well there's email logging but it's it's manual. It's like Bcc that that's definitely on our list to but but this is exactly the type of thing where it's like there's another thing right.
54:27.19
Rick
Not email. Oh its pcc. Yeah, so that's that's be a yeah yeah, there's another thing. Yeah so so email syncing um and that would be the big one. No.
54:43.11
tylerking
Okay, can I ask you this? Oh okay, this will be good because we're we're starting to talk about doing email syncing. Um, you don't want every single email you receive in gmail to create a contact in pipe drive right? How do they. Does it only log emails on context you manually created how does that work So Otherwise you'd have a ton of spam context getting added to your crm. Yeah, So there's some kind of integration between pipe drive and gmail so that your email communication with each clock like.
55:08.69
Rick
Say it again.
55:18.39
tylerking
Lead whatever shows up in pipe drive correct. Okay, um, you get a lot of emails that's like spam but doesn't cut get caught by spam filter. It's just like it's not something you want in the crm right now the way ours works is like you you Bcc or forward an email to us and we put it in the crm so you get to control what gets logged.
55:21.19
Rick
Yep.
55:38.36
tylerking
When it's automatic. How does pipe drive know oh this contact like we should create a contact for this in the crm or does it not create any context.
55:46.80
Rick
Contexts It only match. It's like the way I understand that it works is it. It looks for any contact with the email address. You're sending and if it doesn't find one. It doesn't log.
55:53.15
tylerking
If you add a context does it go back and like find your past emails with them. Okay, and that's basically the whole functionality all right. That's easy. We should build that.
55:56.84
Rick
I Think so.
56:03.80
Rick
Now Now what you run into is ah how do you like in this is more sophisticated less important for us. But like if you know who do you not want to log for like what if they accidentally get add to this hereum is that ah a reverse reverse way Of. Um, So how do you suppress certain email addresses from not getting logged that becomes an issue.
56:17.66
tylerking
Oh yeah, because like in theory j d could say he he could enter sable's email address in the crm and then sable being your wife and then when she emails you your tax information now JD has access to it. So how does pipe drive handle that.
56:33.85
Rick
I Don't know I don't worry about this at at our size but um, it would be something I would care about. Um, once we have someone that's not like J D or you.
56:40.30
tylerking
Yeah, the fact that another user could add someone Wow That's that's devious. Okay.
56:48.90
Rick
I mean this is what we run through like this is a big salesforce issue. Um, you know, especially with a lot of the outreach tools is when you get to be a 70 person company people can get access to information by by manipulating these sinks. Um, and so you have to have suppression or you just turn it turn it off for executives.
57:01.60
tylerking
Do how how did it work in Salesforce I This is not a topic I've thought much about but I should know about.
57:07.45
Rick
Um, so you can you can usually do suppression of domains. So like don't log anything you know, internal? Um, but but there's always these like loopholes like invest like ah per example as like an investor might end up in a salesforce instance um of the company and then all of a sudden investor.
57:11.68
tylerking
Internal. Yeah.
57:25.13
Rick
You know communications are getting logged. Um, ah so.
57:28.78
tylerking
1 one model I've toyed around with so the way I use front is um so I have I front just connects to Gmail. So all the the the email service is just Gmail. But if I send an email from Gmail and the person replies. It's just in Gmail. Like front is unrelated. It's just a personal email if I send an email from front. It uses a different signature and then I have a gmail filter set up that's like if it has that signature send it into front. So what determines it is did I send it from front or did I send it from Gmail you could imagine doing that with a crm that's just like. If you're emailing an outlook or in Gmail. It's not going to log anything until you participate in this conversation from less knowing Crm or what at pipe drive. Whatever your serum is then it starts logging it. What do you think about that.
58:16.30
Rick
I like it I mean I like I said I'm not too worried about this right now. Um, most of this is like you start caring about this stuff when you're managing people and trying to like q QA.
58:31.89
tylerking
I get that you don't care about it. But I have I can't launch a feature like this without thinking about this, you know Anyway, yeah um, okay I'm going to keep playing around that that's a feet that's very high on our list. So we'll have that soon enough but someday I'd love to just sit down and have you actually like test run lessenings here i' because I'm sure you'd be like.
58:34.16
Rick
Yeah I mean it seems like a good idea.
58:44.63
Rick
Um, yeah.
58:49.64
tylerking
Wait your pipelines work like this bullshit and I but I'd like to hear that. Yeah yeah, that that'd be helpful. Um, we won't do that on the podcast because I I think we're probably already way past the point of anyone being interested in this topic. Um, maybe I got 1 more quick. Update here. Um yeah, just.
58:51.22
Rick
But I can also show you how we're using Pipe Drive. No.
59:04.68
Rick
Go work.
59:08.69
tylerking
Talk about ah kind of the the value of podcasting. Um because like what I think 2 we have 200 subscribers according to transistor for this podcast which is a pretty small number of people when you consider like I have 20 something hundred thousand or two thousand something Twitter followers and I'm not like an influencer right? I'm I'm probably below average for a lot of people in our community for Twitter followers and our podcast has one tenth that many it sounds like it's kind of worthless. So I mean like if it's fun you and I like talking to each other but like does it matter that such a small number of people listen.
59:29.25
Rick
Um.
59:47.27
tylerking
But even just since the last episode 2 things happened one I mentioned I met up with Cam Sloan in Whistler. The reason is I mentioned I was going to whistler on this podcast. He listened to it and was like hey I live by there, you want to meet up and like it was great. It was great meeting him but like just like if that. Only happens occasionally, that's like that's very cool like like forming an actual like in-person relationship with someone and then also one of our listeners actuallyhay emailed us with a ton of really interesting bots but like setting aside all the business thoughts he was like you said you're going to Japan I went to Japan. Here's a bunch of tips and I forwarded that to my wife who's doing the trip planning and she was like amazing like great like even with such a small audience just like talking for an hour every other week and letting people listen to it like the amount of serendipity is just crazy.
01:00:40.37
Rick
Oh it's um, it's unbelievable and so yeah I totally agree and I I mean I would I would welcome more conversation. Frankly.
01:00:45.97
tylerking
Yeah, for sure. So this probably this isn't just about podcasting I don't think it's more just like I think in this influencer e world you're like every it's it's tempting to everything you do be like how do I reach a billion people or whatever if you just like put yourself out there and like. Meet people or people are reading what you're saying or whatever it doesn't take like a huge audience to like really have an impact on your life. Okay, that's my ah deep thoughts from tyler today. Yeah.
01:01:13.49
Rick
Yeah I agree that's very deep That's it. It's It's very deep and emotional for you? Um I Akhay's great I Love reading his updates. Um I feel like we're on the journey with him like he's He's cool. So.
01:01:26.17
tylerking
Yeah, yeah, by the way you you just said I that was a deep thought I listen the podcast from the always sunny in Philadelphia guys anytime something like there. Everyone's while they say something nice to each other and they always say hey fuck you. But.
01:01:30.78
Rick
Um, it.
01:01:43.69
Rick
Let's get back to let's give it to normal. Yeah, kill the weirdness. Um, well on that note, if you'd like to review past topics can show notes visit star to last dot com see you next week Tyler
01:01:43.70
tylerking
Just to like kill Ke birth. Yeah.
01:01:51.26
tylerking
See ya.