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Welcome to Cave Diving, a weekly podcast where Pastors Jeremy Gates and Pastor Karl Klemmer take a deeper look at the truths shared in Sunday’s sermon. Each episode invites you to slow down, reflect, and dive deeper into God's Word. Whether you're part of the Cave Spring Church family or tuning in from afar, this podcast offers meaningful midweek insight, honest conversations, and practical ways to live out your faith.
If you want to grow deeper into your walk with Jesus, this podcast is for you!
Cave Diving is a ministry of Cave Spring Church in Owens Cross Roads, Alabama.
Follow us on Instagram @cavespringchurch for updates, encouragement, and more.
00;00;03;19 - 00;00;23;35
Unknown
Hey everyone, you're listening to the Cave Diving Podcast, a ministry of Cave Spring Church. I'm Pastor Jeremy and I'm Pastor Carl, and we want to invite you into the conversation as we dive deeper into God's Word. That's right. We want to help you take your next step in your relationship with Jesus. So we are going to enjoy some really fun conversation.
00;00;23;35 - 00;00;30;01
Unknown
Maybe a little laughter, maybe a lot of laughter. So let's dive in. Let's do it.
00;00;30;06 - 00;00;51;54
Unknown
All right. Hey, friends. How you doing? Hope everybody is really, having an amazing day. Yes, I do too. How are you doing? I'm fantastic. In fact, I'm so good that. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome, everybody. All right. Woo hoo! Oh, yeah! Oh stop it, man. Stop! Let me tell you what happened. Right before we hit record. Yeah. During a.
00;00;51;59 - 00;01;11;20
Unknown
Yeah. And I was like, I'll be able to conceal it. It won't be obnoxious. And I swear, man, right before we hit record, it busted. And all this gooey lemon junk just flowed out into my mouth. That's the power of a Ricola Rico.
00;01;11;24 - 00;01;33;34
Unknown
So, anyway, I'm sorry if you're hearing crazy noises. Yeah, the lip smacking. We had a conversation about that earlier that it's, I guess I don't get too offended by it, but if it's like, if it continues on and on, the lip smacking is. Yes. Yeah. Can I share something? Speaking of lip smacking can share something. A little unknown fact about me.
00;01;33;39 - 00;02;01;12
Unknown
Let's hear it. When I hear people crunch potato chips. Yeah, I want to crawl out of my skin. You want to hear mine? What? Please don't ever touch my collarbone. Really? Yeah. Interesting. I don't know what it is, but just I can't nothing. Just don't touch my collarbone. It makes me feel like I'm going to crawl out of my skin.
00;02;01;14 - 00;02;11;43
Unknown
Oh, wow. I had no idea. Shared that. That's like saying that I'm, you know, like a Kryptonite. I don't know, man. But I'm glad you told me boundaries, right. So I'll be sure not to touch here.
00;02;11;56 - 00;02;15;17
Unknown
love it. I'm glad we shared our little, idiosyncrasies with each other.
00;02;15;24 - 00;02;24;14
Unknown
And you know what allows us to do that is, we have a relationship. We do? Yeah. We're friends. We are. We are absolutely friends. Good friends. We're brothers.
00;02;24;14 - 00;02;49;05
Unknown
Yeah. We're coworkers. Capacitors, I love it. And that's what I want to talk about today. And really, over the next four weeks together, I want us to talk about, relationships. And today is just kind of an intro. And I'm going to hit some things pretty quickly. But in all of my counseling that I've ever done as a pastor, just sitting and talking with people, listening to their, their situation, and there's, there's numerous stories.
00;02;49;05 - 00;03;16;28
Unknown
Right. And you have to you've got, multiple years in ministry. So between the two of us, we've sat with a lot of people who have made, quite honestly, a lot of mistakes, who have a lot of regret, who, come to us for biblical counsel, for prayer, for encouragement and things like that. And as they share with me their story so many times, so many times, if we peel back enough layers, it gets down to choices that they made about who they surrounded their self with.
00;03;16;33 - 00;03;21;58
Unknown
It was said years ago and I've quoted this many times, your friends determine the direction and quality of
00;03;21;58 - 00;03;22;21
Unknown
your life.
00;03;22;31 - 00;03;33;17
Unknown
And that is that has really played out to be so true. It is. Absolutely. Are the crowd you keep is how I learn to grow in the direction and quality of your life.
00;03;33;17 - 00;04;01;26
Unknown
Because relationships are important. They're essential. We cannot we just cannot do life and and and isolation. No, we were not created, for isolation. We were we were indeed created for relationship. And we live in a connected world. When you're growing, boy, we have so many ways to connect. There's so, so many different ways to connect. And, you know, it's so interesting is that even with all the ways that we connect, we can still feel lonely
00;04;01;26 - 00;04;13;44
Unknown
would you agree that we are in some ways more disconnected as a culture, even though we have more tools for connectivity? Absolutely. Yeah. And it probably has to do something with the quality of our time together.
00;04;13;52 - 00;04;17;46
Unknown
again, and that can bleed over into the church. And I think it's important for us to acknowledge that.
00;04;17;46 - 00;04;42;06
Unknown
Why even talk about it in a, in a cave diving diving into Deeper in God's Word podcast. It's because it does that bleeds over into the church. And if we're not careful, we will learn to isolate ourselves even in the crowd of people. You know that saying, lonely in a crowd of a thousand. And we can even in a in the in the context of Christian community, even though we have people around us, we can be very lonely.
00;04;42;06 - 00;04;52;10
Unknown
But, you know, we were designed for relationships. And I want to spend a few minutes talking about what that looks like and then hopefully, kind of take the podcast in the direction of,
00;04;52;16 - 00;05;01;45
Unknown
not only the relationships in your life, but what is your heart? What is your purpose? What is your plan for the relationships in your life?
00;05;01;45 - 00;05;04;04
Unknown
And if you really if you think about it, it kind of
00;05;04;09 - 00;05;23;34
Unknown
feeds off of what we talked about in past episodes, about living with purpose or living intentionally versus, living reactionary. It's just another area of our life to be intentional. And that is, I'm going to be if I really want to pursue the righteousness of Christ, I want to be intentional about who I surround myself with.
00;05;23;39 - 00;05;45;06
Unknown
Because again, your friends do. The people you surround yourself with do determine the direction and quality of your life? The fact is that we are created in the image of God. You and I are image bearers of God, and God is a God of relationships. And when he created the world and then he created us and put us in the world, he said, it is not good for man to be alone.
00;05;45;17 - 00;05;50;20
Unknown
What's interesting is the very first thing that God declared not good was isolation.
00;05;50;25 - 00;06;12;32
Unknown
So we were created for relationship. We were created as image bearers of God. When God said, let us write God the Father, son, Holy Spirit, let us make man in our image. And he did. Then he declared that very good. And the thing he called not good was isolation. So if you try to do this thing we call life alone, you're going to discover pretty quickly, you're not going to be able to do it.
00;06;12;32 - 00;06;33;30
Unknown
Well. And, things that we've even talked about in past podcast, you know, about being connected to the body of Christ, it is impossible to grow spiritually if you're trying to do it apart from the body of Christ. In other words, if you're trying to do it in isolation. But I would say just in in life, period, if you live life in isolation, you're not going to be a healthy person.
00;06;33;31 - 00;06;41;37
Unknown
We were created for relationships. Relationships are not something that we do. It's really who we are. It's a part of our identity and who we are. Yeah.
00;06;41;46 - 00;06;53;11
Unknown
understanding that we serve a god of relationships created us for relationships and that our relationships determine the direction and quality of our life we can then put up with when they get messy.
00;06;53;13 - 00;07;14;21
Unknown
We, in other words, we desire the tools to employ that when we do hit those times, those seasons of difficulty that we can bear with one another, we can work through them and not just dissolve the relationship. That's right. Imagine if you dissolved every relationship with, if you dissolved a relationship with every person you've ever had conflict with, where would you be right now?
00;07;14;26 - 00;07;35;20
Unknown
Right. Yeah. But without friends, without family, and. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So the idea of just like canceling, which is. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know, it's a current term, maybe it's a little old or dated now, but anyway, canceling one another like that's not our thing now. Like we're here to, to restore to maintain relationship. That's right.
00;07;35;20 - 00;07;55;53
Unknown
And bear with one another. That's difficult as it can be. We are empowered by the Holy Spirit to be able to do these things. So the name of the the series that we've been in, in church is you don't complete me in the word don't is in parentheses. Yeah. And so there's a common sentiment, that people will share with their loved one, you know, when they find the one.
00;07;56;02 - 00;08;10;41
Unknown
Right. And they'll, they'll say things like, you know, I'm so glad I found you in my life. You complete me, and I just want you to know that that's that's who he who he that is not biblical. And in fact, it's an it's actually very dangerous for your relationship. Hear me closely.
00;08;10;44 - 00;08;17;23
Unknown
If you're looking to another person to do for you what only Jesus can do for you, you are doing two things.
00;08;17;23 - 00;08;36;47
Unknown
You are setting them up as an idol and you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Okay, so let me talk to you married folk. For many, husbands, your wife does not complete you wives. Your husband does not complete you. And a lot of times we will say, well, yeah, but that just means that, you know, male and female, God brought them together and they were male and female together.
00;08;36;58 - 00;09;05;48
Unknown
Completed the image of God. I understand that, but what we typically say is, you know, honey, I love you so much. You complete me, but only Christ completes us. Amen. Yeah. We complement there. You go. But Christ completes us. And so we need to firmly understand that if we're going to understand anything today, in this, in this podcast and moving forward in the next weeks ahead, it is that biblical principle that we cannot look to other people to do for us what only Jesus can do.
00;09;05;50 - 00;09;28;09
Unknown
That's right. And, and and that's for their benefit. That's for your benefit. That's for preservation of the relationship. And, understanding that also helps you then kind of manage your expectations. Absolutely. And I would argue that, you know, in order for us to really, complement or complete one another, that it starts with that relationship with Christ, that's when the
00;09;28;21 - 00;09;31;44
Unknown
relationships will we will be most complete.
00;09;31;44 - 00;09;35;49
Unknown
Yeah. Is. Yeah, we are first. That's right. Complete in Christ.
00;09;35;56 - 00;09;46;17
Unknown
So what I want to do, for a few minutes today, and I'm going to ask you to kind of with your mind's eye, if you're watching, great. If you're just putting in windshield time or you're listening but not watching, it's okay. We can all still do this together.
00;09;46;17 - 00;10;00;44
Unknown
But I want you to imagine in your mind's eye for a moment, and I'm going to do an exercise with you that I did for my young adults in our small group. I want you to imagine three columns, okay? Three columns on a piece of paper and above column one, I want you to put the word,
00;10;00;58 - 00;10;01;21
Unknown
help.
00;10;01;36 - 00;10;21;27
Unknown
In the second column or the middle column, I want you to write the word hinder. And then in the third column, I want you to write the words need Jesus, help hinder, need Jesus. Okay, okay. Got it. Now, I want you to think about ten people that you do life with. I'm not talking about just ten friends.
00;10;21;27 - 00;10;50;33
Unknown
It can be ten friends, but ten people that you, whether by choice or not, that you do life with on an ongoing basis. Okay, so the people you live with, your friends, but even your coworkers, or if you're a student, people who are in your class with you, ten people. All right. And these are ten people, because it has been proven that the people we surround ourselves with really do rub off on us.
00;10;50;38 - 00;11;10;27
Unknown
Okay? And even if it's not a friend, even if it's just a person, let's just say, a coworker and your your cubicles beside each other are you stand beside each other on the factory line, you know, cranking out widgets, and you're having the best day in the world. And they are just negative, negative, negative. Before you know it, they get that negativity.
00;11;10;27 - 00;11;20;17
Unknown
If you if you don't have some some strong boundaries up, okay, that negativity begins to bleed over on you. Have you ever eaten, out with someone and
00;11;20;17 - 00;11;28;32
Unknown
you been into your food and you're like, oh man, this just tastes so good. And the person across the table goes here. I don't see how you eat that. That's disgusting.
00;11;28;36 - 00;11;46;55
Unknown
We call it in our family. Yuking your yum. Right? You don't want anybody yakking your yum. It's kind of defeating. It's like, well, man, I like it. And now I'm not so sure if I like it anymore. Like, we we really do, whether we intend to or not. We really do allow others to bleed over on us or to affect us.
00;11;47;02 - 00;12;05;07
Unknown
so it is super important that you have a firm understanding of who are you around, who are you allowing to be around you? Who are ten people in your life that you have to do life with again, whether by choice or not? And then think about these three columns. I want you to take those names one by one and put them in one of those three columns.
00;12;05;12 - 00;12;16;14
Unknown
Do they help you in your relationship with Jesus? Do they hinder you in your relationship with what? With Jesus? Or do they need Jesus? Yeah, some of you would say, well,
00;12;16;21 - 00;12;21;56
Unknown
even some of my young adults said, well, can't they go in both columns like they they hinder me, but they need Jesus.
00;12;22;01 - 00;12;24;14
Unknown
And to that I would say no. And here's what I mean.
00;12;24;26 - 00;12;39;49
Unknown
there are people in my life. Okay, and you're one of them for me, you're you're one of the people. There are people in my life I think that help me. Oh, that aid me in my walk with Christ. And you. Me. Right. We sharpen each other, we, provide accountability.
00;12;39;58 - 00;12;57;48
Unknown
We encourage one another. We pray for one another. We do what friends should do. Okay. And I think we have that what I just described with, really a lot of guys in our church. Oh, absolutely. And we have a lot of, cavemen around us. We've built community among our men and really among our whole church.
00;12;57;48 - 00;13;13;26
Unknown
But I'm speaking specifically for you and me. We've built community around us of men that love us and pray for us and encourage us and and joke around with us and tease us and allow us to do that to them. And that's just that's biblical. And we all need that. And so I would put all those names right.
00;13;13;26 - 00;13;34;03
Unknown
I would put all those names in the help. I walk away from you better than in my relationship with Christ. A little bit closer. I feel a little bit more encouraged. I've taken just one more little step in my relationship with Christ because of a conversation we had, or something you enlightened me with, or you prayed with me about, and vice versa.
00;13;34;13 - 00;13;54;20
Unknown
Okay, so those would be the people in your help column. Okay, then let's say that I've got another person in my life that I would absolutely say, look, man, just being completely honest. They're toxic. They're they're negative. They, if they don't have, some kind of drama going on around them, they don't know how to function. So they live in drama.
00;13;54;25 - 00;14;14;40
Unknown
Yeah. And let's be clear, like love, we love them loving. Yes. But are they toxic? Yes. Do they help us? No. Right. And we need to put them in that hinder column. Okay. Sometimes the most loving act we can do for someone is to put distance between us. Because if we stay in their company, we're going to end up, you know, punching him in the throat.
00;14;14;45 - 00;14;34;34
Unknown
Right? So so we're not talking about love. Everybody needs love. Everybody needs Jesus. We're not talking about that. We're talking about in your walk with Christ, okay? And in your relationships. You've got people that either help you, okay. You've got people that hinder you. You get around them. And when you leave their presence, they have drug you down.
00;14;34;39 - 00;14;54;19
Unknown
They've tempted you to do things you normally wouldn't do, or they don't pray with you or they they try to put worldly wisdom into your head instead of godly or biblical wisdom into your head. Okay, I'll give you a perfect example. I had a lady come see me years ago. And she was just wanting to complain about how bad her husband was.
00;14;54;19 - 00;14;58;57
Unknown
And this is what she said to me. Well, my coworkers tell me I just need to divorce him and leave him
00;14;59;02 - 00;15;13;52
Unknown
And I knew her husband. They were members of our church. And I said, what do you think that was very, you think that was biblical advice and and she just kind of, you know, looked at me maybe a little puzzled or confused, and I said, the thing is, what they shared with you.
00;15;13;57 - 00;15;17;18
Unknown
First of all, he has done nothing to warrant you divorcing him. Okay.
00;15;17;28 - 00;15;34;14
Unknown
And secondly, if they gave you such solid advice, what are you doing here? Talking to me. So she really knew in her heart of hearts it was bad advice. And so I would say those people did not help her. They hindered her. Okay. And then there are people that you have in your life that belong in that third column.
00;15;34;14 - 00;15;59;59
Unknown
You know, they need Jesus. Now, why did I say you can't put them in both columns? Here's why. Because if you know someone needs a relationship with Christ, you're not going to give them the platform in your life to help you. You're not looking to them, to for them, to help you, to pour into you. If I look at a child who is five years old, I'm not going to go to that child with, you know, an adult problem.
00;16;00;08 - 00;16;24;28
Unknown
I'm going to love that child and talk to that child. But I'm not going to expect from them to be able to speak to me as an adult. If I am in Christ, I'm not going to go to a nonbeliever and expect them to be able to pour biblical wisdom into me. Therefore, I'm going to be able to love them, and I'm going to be able to speak Christ into their life and to be friendly to them.
00;16;24;28 - 00;16;41;23
Unknown
But I'm not looking to them to pour into my relationship with Jesus, I gotcha. Yeah, right. Yeah. And that's where it can get a little confusing. So again, we're not talking about loving. We love everybody. But there are people in that first column, man. You want to you want to gravitate to. You want to do life with people who are helping you, right?
00;16;41;28 - 00;16;59;51
Unknown
Then there are people in that hinder. You need to be aware of that because you're going to have to draw some boundaries around those relationships. I'm not saying put distance. I'm not saying ignore them. I'm not saying be un Christlike or unfriendly. Not at all. But you're going to have to be super aware of the names in that hinder column.
00;16;59;56 - 00;17;19;07
Unknown
And if they are no good for you, okay, then you're going to have to draw some boundaries around that relationship. One boundary would be exactly what Jesus said do not be unequally yoked. So if you have people in that hinder column, they don't make your relationship with Christ better then wisdom. Biblical wisdom would say, I'm not going to date them.
00;17;19;12 - 00;17;41;43
Unknown
I'm certainly not going to marry them, right? Because I'm not going to hitch myself with somebody who I'm unequally yoked with because they're just going to drag me down. You put a, you know, to use Jesus's, word picture about being yoked together like two oxen. If you are, if you were to take a, you know, a bowl, a big bowl and a little calf and yoke come together, they're not going to plow a straight line.
00;17;41;43 - 00;18;01;23
Unknown
They're going to go in circles. And so spiritually, if you're trying to navigate life and pursue the righteousness of Christ, okay, and you're trying to yoke yourself with people who don't help you but only drag you down, you're not going to you're not going to walk a straight line. You're not going to pursue the righteousness of Christ. You're going to end up just going in circles.
00;18;01;28 - 00;18;23;44
Unknown
So there's the help, there's the hinder, and then there's the need. Christ. And the goal of this exercise is surround yourself with those in the help. Pray for those, but put tight boundaries around those in the hinder, and then be willing to share the gospel and to affect people in the need. Jesus column for the Gospel of Christ.
00;18;23;46 - 00;18;46;48
Unknown
Proverbs chapter 13 verse 20 says, walk with the wise and become wise, for a companion of fools suffers harm. So with that first column, people who help you in your relationship with Christ are going to be people who can point you to Scripture when and when you need it, who are going to be willing to encourage you, who are going to be willing to.
00;18;46;48 - 00;19;09;00
Unknown
When you come to them with your negativity, they're going to be able to challenge that negativity and not not join in with you. They're going to challenge your negativity and try to, sharpen you and get you to see another perspective, a biblical perspective. Okay. Yeah, they're going to be people who, when you were in your hour of need, are there to point you back to Christ.
00;19;09;05 - 00;19;30;22
Unknown
That's right. And just a word of encouragement there. The walking with the wise become wise is I think it's a challenge to us, to seek, a generation above us to, to, to truly be multi-generational people. Yeah. Where we're not just looking to our, our peers, but we're looking to those who have lived some more life than us.
00;19;30;34 - 00;19;52;24
Unknown
That's right. And I think that's really, really important because I've known some really wise older men and women that I know. I just love to hear from them. And I'm so thankful for them and their wisdom and what they bring. I agree, that's one of the things I'm so thankful for here in our church. And that is multigenerational ministry, because we need we need the wisdom of the old or older,
00;19;52;31 - 00;19;55;14
Unknown
and they need the energy of the of the young.
00;19;55;14 - 00;20;08;07
Unknown
I mean, we went on that retreat and, together with the young adults and and it was so life giving. Yeah. You know, there's just so much there's so much life and joy and energy among young people. And I think I love being around these guys. Yeah.
00;20;08;17 - 00;20;12;45
Unknown
I, I've often said to Miranda, our daughter is, is 22 and you have grown children.
00;20;12;45 - 00;20;34;28
Unknown
I've often said to Miranda, I'm so thankful for you. You keep me young. Yes. You know, I love looking at life through the eyes of our young adults. And that's one of the reasons, like you said at our retreat, that I got such joy. And it just we had some great spiritual discussions and perspectives were shared. And so we need the old we need the middle aged, and we need the young and that.
00;20;34;28 - 00;20;42;09
Unknown
And that's all God's design is, right? That is all God's design. So so I want to talk for a few minutes about that first column, okay. That that help column.
00;20;42;09 - 00;20;56;03
Unknown
God uses relationships for our spiritual growth. Okay. In Hebrews and I talked about this a few weeks ago in Hebrews chapter ten, it says, let us in verse 24 and 25, let us consider how we may spur one another on towards love and good deeds.
00;20;56;07 - 00;21;17;21
Unknown
You know, there's this aspect of, as Christian Brothers, as friends who are in Christ. I'm going to be able to, to encourage you, to spur you, maybe to encourage you towards, some things that that God would have for you and you for me. We can, I love that. Let's consider how we may spur one another on.
00;21;17;35 - 00;21;42;22
Unknown
In other words, how can I, as your friend, how can I help you pursue the righteousness of Christ? How can I help you know Jesus better? Yeah, and I love the way this plays out in real life. Right? When you become a part of a small group and you are known and you know others and you have a deep relationship and and then this happens, they spur one another on.
00;21;42;22 - 00;22;01;50
Unknown
Just recently, in a small group where, one small group member was just having a tough time, other small group members, jumped in and helped and, and, and just provided love and support. And then that person who was love and supported guys. And now I want to do the same for others. It's that spurring one another on toward love and good deeds.
00;22;01;50 - 00;22;23;41
Unknown
And it's like, man, watch out. Because when it happens, it's it's just like it's like it catches on. Yeah, absolutely. We I think several ways we can spur one another on is, encourage, meet physical needs. Right. Meet spiritual needs. We can pray for one another. Accountability. Yes. You know, accountability is a huge one.
00;22;23;41 - 00;22;40;22
Unknown
And and what I mean by that is loving one another enough that when we see the other maybe going off the rails a little bit, right, we have enough love for them to say, hey, I mean, the Bible even says if you see your brother in sin pointed out to him so he can be restored to God, do it gently, right.
00;22;40;22 - 00;22;42;13
Unknown
Don't just, you know, be the,
00;22;42;18 - 00;22;55;34
Unknown
you know, blue haired church lady, you know, like on Saturday Night Live years ago, you know, putting in that spare Spanish or putting the finger in their face facing, you know, you center, you know, but but to pointed out to them gently and say, hey, man, I love you.
00;22;55;34 - 00;23;17;54
Unknown
And and this, this pattern of behavior that I'm seeing, it's, it's going to hurt you. It's going to hurt others around you. And and so how can I help you get back on track? That's biblical accountability. Yeah. Holding one another accountable. So and then encouraging one another to grow. Don't just let each other be stagnant. So that kind of carries with it.
00;23;17;54 - 00;23;39;11
Unknown
Hey, man, I hadn't seen you in church in a couple of weeks. Everything okay? Good at in small group. You know, I missed your caveman last night. What's going on? How can I help you? You know, just encouraging one another. It's not. It's not trying to just bug each other, but it's that encouragement for growth. Like we talked about in past episodes, desiring to take next steps this year and desiring accountability.
00;23;39;11 - 00;23;41;05
Unknown
You know, we talked about making a plan,
00;23;41;05 - 00;23;59;12
Unknown
keeping the plan and and inviting accountability into that plan. And so that's part of considering how we can spur one another on towards loving good deeds is hold one another accountable, healthy, biblical relationships, they encourage, they challenge, back to your point and they always point you back to Christ.
00;23;59;23 - 00;24;07;27
Unknown
Okay. So please hear that again. Healthy biblical relationships. The people in that help column, okay. They encourage you.
00;24;07;27 - 00;24;13;01
Unknown
they, challenge you. All right. And they always point you back to Jesus.
00;24;13;16 - 00;24;29;41
Unknown
Now, now I'm going to say I'm going to say something that's going to be a little testy. Okay. If you're in a relationship that doesn't encourage you, doesn't, challenge you in your walk with Christ and doesn't point you back to Jesus, then then you need to move that person from the,
00;24;29;41 - 00;24;32;00
Unknown
help column to the hinder column.
00;24;32;04 - 00;24;52;15
Unknown
Okay. And again, I know that's, that can be a tough pill to swallow. You had asked me before when we were talking about this earlier, what do you do with the people in your life that you you can't control? Like, you have to be around them like a coworker, right. And that's a great question, because we we were talking about this earlier before we started podcasting.
00;24;52;15 - 00;24;54;24
Unknown
And we don't always get a choice who we get to work around.
00;24;54;28 - 00;25;04;13
Unknown
I worked in the secular world for a while. So did you. We both have secular work experience, even though we've done ministry a long time. And, I worked in the corporate world, for several years.
00;25;04;13 - 00;25;11;50
Unknown
And quite honestly, I knew some bad people. Just dishonest people, gossipy people, like people I would never hang out with outside of work.
00;25;11;55 - 00;25;20;51
Unknown
And I'm not talking about my directing. The team I worked with I love dearly, but I'm talking about people in the profession that I just had to put up with.
00;25;20;56 - 00;25;37;11
Unknown
And so I would say, if that's you, if you're around people that are just no good, that they they drag you down or bring you down or, you know, in your heart of hearts they don't make your walk with Christ better, had the guts to put them in the hinder column and then draw tight boundaries around them. So what I did, I didn't hang out with them after work.
00;25;37;16 - 00;26;06;51
Unknown
I didn't share deep, dark secrets with them. I didn't confide in them. Right. I just kept it professional, I kept I was nice to them. I was Christlike, but I didn't get I kept it basically. I just kept it about business. And if they acted unbecoming, I just remove myself from the situation. Didn't even engage with them. So, you know, it's important that we have a firm understanding of that, that help column, that hinder column, and then who we put in the the need Jesus.
00;26;06;51 - 00;26;23;31
Unknown
Now for today's purposes, and because we are going to unpack this more in the weeks ahead for today's purpose, I really don't want to focus much more on those other two columns we're going to. But for today's purpose, I want to just focus on that help column. Okay. And I'm going to ask you some some questions for you to think about.
00;26;23;36 - 00;26;45;25
Unknown
And that is, first of all, when I was walking you through that mental exercise. Think of their names right now okay. And how much time do you intentionally spend fostering relationships with those people in the help column? Think about that for a minute, because I think it's very important. We talked about in in podcast in the past,
00;26;45;30 - 00;26;49;46
Unknown
being, responding versus reactionary, being intentional instead of just reacting to everything.
00;26;50;00 - 00;27;12;05
Unknown
So how much time do you intentionally spend with those people in the help column? Okay. And let me encourage you if if you would be honest and look at the names and go, you know, I really don't spend a lot of time with them. You know, I spend more time with people maybe in the Knee Jesus column or people in the hinder column, because I spend a lot of time at work or whatever.
00;27;12;09 - 00;27;31;35
Unknown
I give my family or those closest to me just what's left over. Maybe there's, some lessons to be learned about that. Maybe there's some reprioritizing or reordering that needs to happen. And maybe, just maybe, I need to spend a little more time with and be intentional to spend a little more time with the people in that help column.
00;27;31;40 - 00;27;53;43
Unknown
That way your walk with Christ is going to get better. You're going to make their lives better. And here's what I've learned about the people in the help column is you get to help them. Two you're spurring one another on. It's reciprocal. Yeah. When they're in the hinder column, it is not reciprocal. Right. And when they're in the knee Jesus column, it's not supposed to be reciprocal because they don't know Christ yet.
00;27;53;58 - 00;28;12;10
Unknown
Yeah. It's kind of like that. Like you said earlier, the child, the infant, relationship where you can't expect an infant to to really do a whole lot of contributing. There's the nurturing. Yeah. That needs to happen. Right. There's the instruction that needs to happen. There's all those kind of things. But in that help column right there, you've got mutual encouragement.
00;28;12;10 - 00;28;12;28
Unknown
Yeah.
00;28;12;37 - 00;28;39;24
Unknown
once we get a kind of a firmer hold, okay. On and I said ten names earlier, I would encourage you when you can really do this exercise with everybody you can think of in your life. Okay, ten names is just a start. You may have 20 or 30 or 50 names, I don't know, but think of the people in your life and what category or what column they fall in, and then be willing to be intentional about those who do help you in your walk with Christ.
00;28;39;39 - 00;29;04;21
Unknown
And Fran, let me just be really blunt. If you're trying to do life in Christ with somebody who's not a believer, okay, or who is unequally yoked with you, then would you just by faith accept what God's Word says? And that is you will not you will not grow spiritually if you're trying to do life with somebody who is not able to meet you where you are spiritually and encourage you to be better.
00;29;04;26 - 00;29;32;45
Unknown
So this is something I shared with my young adults, and it may be a little silly, but I promise this is a real concept. And it's not just, it doesn't just apply in our spiritual walk. This actually applies to every area of our life. But here's the concept. Let's say that I am a seven and at at a scale of 1 to 10, okay, one being baby Christian and ten being, you know, I'm hitting on all eight cylinders and just man, I'm, I'm doing everything, mostly right.
00;29;32;45 - 00;29;48;53
Unknown
And in pursuing the righteousness of Christ and let's say that and that's our goal, right? We want to we want to be a ten. We want to love Christ more every day. We want to take next steps. We want to be better than we were the day before. Worthy goal. When you say absolutely, so I want to get to a ten.
00;29;48;58 - 00;29;57;38
Unknown
Okay, now I'm at a seven right now. I still got some hangups. I got some struggles. I got some days where, man, I'm just in the flesh, but I'm I'm hanging at a seven.
00;29;57;51 - 00;30;06;43
Unknown
And you're my friend. And I really desire to have people in the help column. I really desire to be more intentional about surrounding myself with people in the help column.
00;30;06;43 - 00;30;30;03
Unknown
And you're at a nine when wisdom dictate that. I try to put myself around you more. Absolutely. And I have the humility to not be the smartest person in the room, so to speak. Yes, because there's always going to be somebody who is further along than us. That's just that's just how it is. And to be, you know, kind of maybe the duller person in the room, but to be okay with it, right.
00;30;30;08 - 00;30;47;47
Unknown
And humility to go, I, I've seen something in you and I like that and I want that there you go around that if I'm at a seven and and I desire a ten and you're at a nine, you're two steps farther than me. I need to surround myself with you. I need to make sure I'm spending time with you so that I can maybe be an eight next year.
00;30;47;52 - 00;31;11;40
Unknown
But if you're at a six, right? If you're at a six, doesn't mean you're not a Christian. You're pursuing Christ, too. But I'm at a seven. You're at a six. You're never going to be able to take me beyond a seven. I'm already at a seven. You're at a six. You can't go above where I am. Okay? If you in your personal walk, climb and go to a 7 or 8, then you can bring me along with you.
00;31;11;46 - 00;31;32;06
Unknown
Is this making sense? Okay, so the way I learned this concept was actually in college and it was not in the context of discipleship, it was in the context of music. And I was talking with a, a trumpet professor who said, if you want to be a class, A top notch ten out of ten musician, surround yourself with class A, top notch musicians.
00;31;32;10 - 00;31;59;37
Unknown
Don't surround yourself with, kids who are in elementary school playing the trumpet. Yeah, okay. And so the concept is if you're at a seven and you want to be a ten, surround yourself with people who are at a seven or higher to take you to the next level. If they're at your level at a seven, y'all can grow together to eight, but it is spiritually impossible for those in your life who are under you spiritually, who are not pursuing Christ to the level you are to take you farther in your walk with Christ than you are right now.
00;31;59;50 - 00;32;17;26
Unknown
So if you really desire spiritual growth, you're going to surround yourself with people who are walking with Christ and growing in their faith as well. Okay. And so we're going to leave it there. That's the help column. My my encouragement to you from this podcast is really spend some focused time on who's in your health column okay.
00;32;17;26 - 00;32;41;23
Unknown
In episodes. In the future I really want to dive deeper into the hinder column because those people, we need to give full attention to those relationships. Those toxic relationships have destroyed lives, and destroyed many lives. And so we need to see what God's Word says about how we deal with people who are toxic, who refuse help, who refuse to know Christ, that they're just existing in their toxicity.
00;32;41;28 - 00;33;01;04
Unknown
What do we do with that? Okay. And then later in the series, we're going to talk about what do we do with the people in the Need Jesus column. But for today, I hope you'll spend some concentrated prayer time and evaluating who is in your health. And would you be willing to foster those relationships and be honest about those who don't belong in the help column?
00;33;01;09 - 00;33;16;07
Unknown
This is such a great topic to be talking on. Amen. Would you pray for us on the website lutely. Yes Lord would you help us in our relationships. You have designed us to be relational beings and Lord, we want to be wise. We want to ask your wisdom in those relationships.
00;33;16;07 - 00;33;36;55
Unknown
And Lord, would you would you bring people around us, Lord, that are wise in you, that are rooted in you, that we can encourage and build each other up? We need people and all of the columns in our lives, Lord, but especially friends, that will bring us back, to the the saving knowledge of you. So, Lord, would you help us in our relationships?
00;33;36;55 - 00;33;40;59
Unknown
We pray in Christ's name. Amen. Amen. God bless you, friend.
00;33;41;04 - 00;34;05;54
Unknown
You've been listening to the Cave Diving Podcast, a ministry of Cave Spring Church. Hey, if you want to be part of one of the most exciting churches in North Alabama, we invite you to come and worship with us right here at Cave Spring. We are located at 1107 Cave Spring Road in Owens Crossroads, Alabama. We meet every Sunday morning at 930 for small groups and then 1030 for an exciting time of worship.
00;34;05;59 - 00;34;14;19
Unknown
Also, check us out online at Cave Spring church.com. And remember friend, when you are here, you belong.