Mostly Working

Tom and Jonny announce that the Near Future Podcast is becoming Mostly Working. They explain why they're closing the consultancy to back the podcast, unveil the Mostly Working Summit at Monzo on 22 October, and go behind the scenes of a new brand built with Claude Code.
In this episode:
  • The Near Future consultancy is closing, and the podcast carries on every week as Mostly Working.
  • We explain the three tests behind the decision: founder fit, how hard the work was to sell, and how much energy it gave us.
  • At design + AI in Brighton, 30 senior designers built their own design tools in about an hour, from a Crazy Eights racing game to a skin analyser.
  • The Mostly Working Summit runs at Monzo on 22 October: a free morning for 100 design leaders, then our final Build Your Own Design Tool workshop. Apply at mostlyworking.co.
  • Tom walks through building the new brand, sketching the mark in Figma and having Claude Code generate palette tools, motion principles and even a jingle.
Chapters:
  • 0:04 — The Near Future Podcast is becoming Mostly Working
  • 1:03 — How the podcast started, 19 weeks in
  • 2:17 — Winding down the Near Future consultancy
  • 3:02 — Where the Mostly Working name comes from
  • 4:30 — Founder fit, ease of sale and energy: why the consultancy - stopped
  • 6:53 — Jonny on wanting to build, and joining a small tech company
  • 11:09 — Tom's test: follow the most interesting conversations
  • 13:21 — Thank you to Near Future clients
  • 14:30 — What to expect from Mostly Working
  • 17:24 — Build Your Own Design Tools at design + AI in Brighton
  • 20:43 — Why the workshop builds keep getting better
  • 23:15 — Hatch in Berlin: Paula Scher and Bob Baxley
  • 26:33 — Announcing the Mostly Working Summit
  • 27:57 — How the Mostly Working meetup grew from 70 to 160 sign-ups
  • 31:45 — Summit details: Monzo, 22 October, fireside chats, roundtables and the workshop
  • 36:13 — mostlyworking.co and the new brand
  • 37:20 — Designing the M/W mark in Figma
  • 39:09 — Claude Code generates palette tweakers, motion principles and a logo jingle
  • 43:37 — Building brand tools by voice note from your phone
  • 45:29 — Flora versus building your own image generators
  • 47:22 — Tote bags, feedback and wrap-up
Mentioned in the episode

Mostly Working
Events
People
  • Tom Harman
  • Jonny Burch
  • Simon Amor, co-founder of Morse and co-host of the Mostly Working meetup
  • Paula Scher, partner at Pentagram
  • Bob Baxley, designer and former head of product design at Pinterest
  • Domingo Widen, Fin
  • Ini, Fin
  • James Storer, Monzo
Companies
Tools and products
About the pod
Mostly Working (formerly the Near Future Podcast) is a weekly conversation with design leaders about what they're building with AI. Send feedback to podcast@nearfuture.works, and find everything at mostlyworking.co.

Creators and Guests

Host
Jonny Burch
Co-founder of Near Future
Host
Tom Harman
Co-founder of Near Future

What is Mostly Working?

A weekly podcast covering design and AI by Tom Harman and Jonny Burch. We cover both what we're seeing on the ground and industry trends, ways of working and occasional guests from the design world.

Jonny: Hi everyone, and welcome
to another episode of the Near

Future Podcast with Tom and Jonny.

today it's just us two.

We're gonna-- We, we've got quite a
big topic to, to talk about today.

and I will open with the news that this
is the last Near Future Podcast because

Tom: What?

Jonny: because we're changing our name.

As Tom and I are want to do, we like to
change our name about every six months.

As soon as a brand has really
sort of settled in and feels

nice, just change it again.

Tom: who remember

the name.

Jonny: we do have some rationale
to this one, and we'll dig into it.

but the Near Future Podcast is
going to be called, from next

episode, the Mostly Working Podcast.

That may give you a clue as
to what's happening and why.

But I'll hand over to Tom to
give a little bit of background

Tom: So why, why are we
changing the podcast name?

Well, I think we should start out by
saying we started this podcast early in

the summer And I feel like I had been
wanting to do a podcast for a long time.

I've mentioned it over many
years to various people.

In fact, Jonny, when we first started
talking about working together, one

of the questions I asked you was about
podcasting and what advice you'd have

for someone who's making a podcast,
because you have previously podcasted.

And it took a long time to get there,
but we finally, got to recording this

podcast, and it seemed to make sense
for, creating this space where we could

continue conversations about the things
we were trying, building, learning, with

with the, the workshops we were running
with the companies we were working with.

And, it started out as an experiment.

This should be episode 19, so we've--
we're 19 weeks into this, and I think

one of the big takeaways so far is how
fun and rewarding it has been to do this.

so both the conversations just you
and I have had, but also the guests

we've had on had some really inspiring,
fascinating discussions, and it's been,

I think the high point of both of our
weeks, or at least mine it has been.

Jonny: Me too, Tom.

Me too.

Tom: okay.

Okay, good to hear.

So that's, that's sort of the,
the origin story of the podcast.

But the reason for changing,
why are we changing this?

Well, it comes as part of a bigger
change that we're making, which is

the podcast was originally about Near
Future, which was the AI consultancy

that Jonny and I were running
together, are running together.

There's another clue
in, in my misstep there.

Jonny: Gave away the punchline

Tom: Yeah, exactly.

we're now actually gonna be winding
down, or we have wound down the

consultancy side of our work together.

we're on the verge of wrapping up
workshops together for various reasons.

but the podcast is the one thing that
we're continuing to work on together.

We'll continue to do a weekly episode.

we have a really exciting list of
guests who are on the horizon who

we're gonna be speaking with too.

and the name Mostly Working is also
bringing together a couple of different

things that Jonny and I have both been
quite actively involved with in the

design and AI community here in London.

So Mostly Working is the name of the
monthly-ish meetup that I started back

in January with Simon from Morse, or
Sling, as it was known back at that time.

and we've been running these events in
person in London, and they've gone well.

We've built a really great group
of people around them and, so now

we're adopting the same name for this
umbrella podcast/events group that

we're starting or that we're continuing,

Jonny: Media empire, can we call it that?

Tom: maybe one day, maybe one day it'll
be a media, media empire, but for now

it's just a place to, shine a light on
what design leaders are doing at the

forefront of their experimentations
with AI and how they're…

how that's working for them and their
teams, and a place for real talk

and real conversation about that.

so that's sort of the context there.

But why are we not going to continue
with Near Future as a, as a consultancy?

So back early in the summer, I
think Jonny and I, we, we talked

about these three pillars.

I don't know if we ever nailed this
down as, like, an official way of

defining success for what we were
doing together, but it just felt

like a very intuitive of criteria.

There was founder fit, there was,
how, how challenging or easy was

this to, to sell the services we were
offering, and then how much energy

did we get from doing the work itself.

And when we started doing this,
it was a really exciting time.

I mean, it still is a really
exciting time in, in AI and design.

at that time, it felt like teams were
just waking up to the possibility

that they could start writing code
using AI agents, that they could--

this is supercharging their workflow.

There's so much potential ahead.

And, that is still true for many
teams today, but there's definitely

a, a shift in where the focus of the
conversations we were drawn into and

were having, which ended up being
feeling quite, AI training focused.

come and help us figure out how to use
ChatGPT or Claude or, And obviously,

that's been a focus of our workshops,
although we have been quite diligent

about making sure that the focus of our
workshops has meant there's been-- m-

most of the time has focused on actually
building and us giving a structure and a

way of doing that and some support in it.

But it's not sitting in front of slide
decks listening to how to prompt ChatGPT.

Anyway, so founder fit.

I mentioned those three things.

Founder fit, how hard it was to sell,
and the individual energy we were

getting from, from doing the work itself.

And the, founder fit felt very strong.

It still does feel strong.

That's kind of why we're continuing with
the podcast, because we want to continue

working together, and this is really fun.

but the other two ended up being sort of
a different shape than we an- anticipated.

So the being sort of pulled into
training, and that's not really where

either of us are super energized by.

And the…

It's also just, like, a really strange
time for companies to decide to do

this stuff or get help in how they
navigate it, because the, landscape is

shifting so quickly, and I think a lot
of leaders and companies are struggling

to, to figure out exactly when the
right moment is to invest and what

type of investment they want to make.

but ultimately, I think we're both
really drawn to building with these

new tools and, creating a new form
of design practice that is emerging

out of what's possible here.

I'm going to hand over to you,
Jonny, to talk a bit more about

what that might mean for you.

Jonny: I think that was
a really good summary.

A summary of a conversation
that probably took like all

summer on one form or another.

We sort of came into the summer holidays
with a bunch of conversations, a bunch

of client work that we'd done, and,
it feels to me like both felt like

We're still one step away from
the actual work being done.

and as builders and all the time not
on client work was being spent building

interesting stuff and personal projects
or projects together trying to crack real

problems, it felt like increasingly if
this goes well, then we will end up not

having any time to do the stuff we want
to do because we're going to be doing the

stuff that people are paying us to do.

And that just intuitively feels like
even though in this moment it's enjoyable

because we're having great fun together,
as it scales, as, as, as it becomes

more serious, like is that actually
the job that I want to give myself?

I get an opportunity right now to write my
next job description and, and is that it?

I think we both sort of felt that.

Part of that for me also came from
a place of like personal change.

my family and I moved down from Manchester
to London over the summer, and I think

just realizing just London is just
buzzing at the moment, with interesting

teams building interesting things.

And I felt quite a strong pull to just
go and go back to the early stage and

build something hard, and, work in a
small team on the actual work rather

than the, the work that informs the work,
which training people sort of feels like.

You know, you're-- You get to impact
the builders, which is awesome, but

you don't get to build stuff yourself.

So, it sort of coincided and I think
part for me of the wanting to, not

do the Near Future work was actually
just because I wanted to do this

other shape of work that was not
realistic for us to be able to justify.

However much we like contorted
ourselves into like, "Well, if we do

enough of this work, then maybe we'll
have an R&D lab and other stuff."

It's like, why don't we just, why
don't we just not do that other work

and, and do the, do the R&D lab?

So, yeah, I'm-- So this is a mixture of
personal and like looking the mar- looking

at the market that we have been entering
into and being like, is that, is that

a market we're excited about being in?

But also just for, definitely for me
Good look in the mirror and working

out where am I getting my energy
and what do I want to do next.

And I've been fighting the urge to start
another tech company for two years, and,

I'm not doing that next.

But I am joining a small tech company,
in a position with lots of autonomy

and get to feel like a founder, report
to a founder and feel like a founder

without having to actually be one.

so yes, this is all sort of-- It's
sometimes hard to untangle all this

stuff, but what-- Just to reflect
what you said, Tom, just I can't wait

to see where the stuff that when we
remove all the things that we weren't

sure about, what remains is really
exciting, and I can't wait to keep

going and see where all of these guests
take us and the conversations we have.

yeah.

Yeah, so this is a, like a
transfiguration or, or an, evolution

rather than anything else I see it as.

But crucially, we'll make our money
elsewhere, I suppose, unless someone

wants to give us a monster podcast
sponsorship, then, then, we are a, a duo

of podcast hosts rather than consultants

Tom: Exactly.

And that makes a ton of sense.

I'm sure people are dying to hear
more about the company, but we'll

save that for another time, or m-
m- maybe whenever you're ready to

share about that in a future episode.

but I think it, it does align quite
closely with something that I have

often thought about in terms of
making big career decisions, which

is don't know if this, this is gonna
sound really weak as a as a w- a

measure for deciding what to do next.

But for me, I found, like, what are the
conversations that I want to keep having?

Like, when am I or speaking with people
who I really want to continue talking

with about those types of problems?

Like, those are the … That's usually
my litmus test for where is the, where

is my energy being pulled towards.

And I think in this next step- stage,
I've not taken a full-time role.

I'm continuing, actually reverting
slightly to my solo practice,

fractional leadership, coaching
heads of design, and, other things.

a mix of building and leading teams.

but the, sort of inflection point for me
in this decision is around are the most

interesting conversations happening, and
I f- feel strongly that those are either

directly on this podcast or they're
enabled through this podcast happening,

which is probably sp- a lot of lot of
praise, claim, on the podcast itself.

But I do think it Based on the metric
of how interesting is the conversation,

then a podcast is a great way to
have an interesting conversation.

So, so that's not where I'm
planning … As Jonny mentioned, I'm

not gonna get my income from that.

But, but it feels like if I could
spend some amount of time during my

week or an hour a week speaking with
Jonny or podcast guests on really

fascinating conversations, that feels
very well-aligned career decision,

giving the rest of the week, the rest of
the space to actually earn some money.

So what I'll figure out next.

But, but yeah, the interestingness
of the conversation was my measure

of what decision makes sense next.

Jonny: I would just finish also by saying
if you're listening to this and you have

been a Near Future client, or we've talked
to you about that possibility, thank you.

This is no reflection of

Tom: Thank you

Jonny: of anyone we've worked
with, and we've really enjoyed

all the work we've done.

I th- I think it's a little bit more like
casting forward, where does this end us

up and where do we think the industry's
going and all of that kind of stuff.

so it's with gratitude and gratitude to
you, Tom, I suppose from me, like it's

been a, a really enjoyable 18 months,
and here's to the next 18 and beyond

Tom: Yes.

Yes.

Definitely super grateful for everyone,
anyone who was interested in working with

us, whether that turned into something
or is still an early conversation.

We've met some fascinating people
and, just got a fascinating slice into

different teams at different scales
and different stages are adopting

these technologies within design and
product teams, and that in itself has

been a fascinating glimpse into how
different teams are approaching it.

Jonny: Mega

Tom: so Jonny, what can people expect?

So if you're listening to this podcast
right now, you're hearing this news,

hopefully you're not tearing up.

Hopefully.

You'll get through this.

It's

Jonny: I know.

I hope they are tearing up.

I hope everyone's tearing up

Tom: Okay.

Well, well if you

are, let

Jonny: with, excitement.

With excitement and joy because
we are all in on the podcast.

All of our energy, all of our Near
Future, well, Mostly Working energy

will be on the podcast, or most of it,
and we do have an announcement for, for

later, about where some of it's going.

But yeah, w- we-- Yeah, we're

Tom: Tell us more.

Tell us more about what the
listeners can expect going forward

Jonny: more of the same.

I mean, w- you know, it-- we've,
we've had great guests so far.

fascinating.

We've got tons more coming.

both Tom and I have been out in public
at, conferences and things, shopping.

So we've got, we've got a good lineup
coming up, and I think what's been really

important so far, and will continue to
be important, is that we're not here to

extract information from people solely.

we're here to have a, a shared
conversation, and so keeping the tone

and the sort of themes and things
like that conversational and chatty is

important, and even more so extending
the conversation out to people that

listen regularly and working out how
to loop people into that and get people

involved maybe ahead of time when we have
a guest, but, but-- or, or during even.

But, definitely making sure that if
you're listening, you feel like you

can be part of that conversation and
meet those people or, or, or join in.

so we'll keep thinking about that and how
to build Mostly Working f- from what is…

Tom and Simon have done a
fantastic job with a London, a

London meetup and a community.

hopefully the flywheel of
that plus podcast will start

to spin even faster, and,

And we'll keep it light
and keep it, yeah, chatty.

that's, that's the goal.

Not super formal.

I don't think I could
do formal if I tried, so

Tom: I think we should start wearing
suits to record these episodes.

Actually,

Jonny: bring my top hat

Tom: if you're listening to this,
the, or if you're listening to the

audio-only version of this, just assume
that we are wearing suits and top hats.

Don't look at YouTube.

Okay.

so what e- what else?

Shall we move on?

Anything else you wanna mention
there, Jonny, or should we talk

about what we've been up to recently?

Jonny: I think that's everything.

Tom: Okay.

Jonny: that's everything

Tom: Well, what else have we been up to?

You mentioned, you hinted at it
a little there, Jonny, earlier.

I'm gonna start out by saying we
did the design + AI conference

in Brighton last week.

It was last Thursday and-- or Thursday
and Friday, and we ran a workshop there.

We brought our Your Own Design
Tools workshop there and spent the

afternoon with 30 design, senior
designers and design leaders building

tools together, it was super fun.

It was a great day.

It-- the weather was sunny in Brighton,
which is always a great treat.

and yeah, we had a bunch of great ideas.

So I thought I'd just share a couple
of the, the things people designed.

There was-- I think my favorite, the
one that I still think about now is,

there was a racing ideation game.

So the idea of Crazy Eights, where you
have to a quick sketch of something in

30 seconds and then move on to the next
box and fill something in for 30 seconds.

Someone created a, a video game version of
that where the car would accelerate away

for a few seconds, and then you had to
type an idea into a box or draw something

into a box to enable the car to continue.

So the idea was it was a multiplayer
racing game with other people, and you'd

only win the race if your car was filled
with enough ideas to move forward.

I just thought that was, was very fun.

Had a very '80s aesthetic.

It's very

cool.

There was also Ma-Make Photos Worse,
a Make Photos Worse app, which adds--

which takes a, a perfectly good photo
and adds finger blur or, or a, a finger

smudge or a blurred focus or other
things to making it worse, which I

loved the approach or idea of that.

and then there were a bunch of, like,
really useful, practical tools that people

bu-built as well So there was someone
who built a dynamic 2D illustration

generator of a house which had different
electrical components in it, and you

could switch them on and off, and it,
it created this very nice illustration.

There was a 3D room planner that
allowed you to lay out a space in a

room and then you could visualize it
in 3D, so quite helpful if you're,

moving house or something like this.

And someone else actually, the person next
to this one, created a sculpture studio

app that allowed you to make the shape of
a piece of sculpture, ceramic sculpture,

and then you could put it in the kiln and
you could, like, paint it and all these

things, which, I think was super cool.

the last one, which I think was
almost unanimously the winner of the

category that it was in, was a skin
analyzer that took a picture of your

face and then it suggested beauty
products based on various qualities

that it assessed from that analysis,

which

Jonny: Yeah

Tom: very impressive for something that
was done in about an hour or so of work.

but yeah, really great ideas and some
just, some serious stuff, some playful

stuff, and a bunch of stuff in between.

So was really good.

What, what were

Jonny: And a healthy mix of things
that didn't work as well, as always.

Tom: There's-- always have a prize that's
focused on ambition, even if it doesn't

actually work, how ambitious was the idea?

And,

Jonny: Yeah

Tom: yeah, there was some good,
good examples of that there too.

So Jonny, how was…

Any takeaways from Brighton or
do you wanna talk about your

other thing you've been up

Jonny: I

Tom: is

Jonny: I think we've run this workshop
enough times now that I, I can

start to see a trend of the quality
going up of what is being created.

The ambition level maybe, but als-
but definitely the quality, and

that's probably partly a function
of the models getting better.

Like, I would imagine most
people were on Opus 5.5

this time, which had just been released.

maybe a bit of a reflection
of the general standard.

Like, there were two or three people that
came in and had never done this before,

but most people it felt like were…

We didn't have to say, "Now type
Claude and see if it works,"

like, to, to too many people.

we had the, the odd, technical hiccup,
but generally I think the standard is,

or the, the, the baseline is higher.

I think we're probably also
better at running the workshop.

Like, we now give people a skill and,
like, a device frame and stuff like

that so that they can get started,
and we're sort of a little bit more

confident in what people can do.

But what people build in
an hour is just so good.

There's just no technical limitation,
so it's just about your creativity.

It's really just about your ability
to identify a problem, imagine

a novel way of solving it, and,

I mean, you know, if you describe it well
enough, the model can almost one-shot it.

So, you know, then the, the, the only
limitation is your own creativity.

It's like the purest form of,
of creativity that is possible

to, to get to, I think.

And people do stretch the boundaries of
what a tool is, I think, but that's fine.

You know, the, the goal of the workshop
is always to just get people building

weird stuff and having a laugh at each
other's, strange tools that they build.

So yeah, I just love running it.

it makes me laugh every time,
some of the weird stuff that,

that, that people come out with.

always surprising, always different.

So yeah, just, just a buzz.

And Brighton was beautiful, sunny day.

We walked all the way to the
end of the pier and back.

We had two beers on the beach.

Oh, that was nice as well,

Tom: Yeah.

So good

Jonny: so just a jolly good old time,
and well done team for organizing that.

it looked like…

We weren't around on the Friday,
but it looked like the rest of

the conference was also brilliant.

So, definitely one, if it comes
back next year, to, to check out

Tom: I think it is.

I think there's already
pre-sale tickets available,

Jonny: Okay.

Well, there you go.

Tom: plus, design + AI in Brighton.

I think it might be in

Jonny: Yeah.

It's Product Unleashed
might be the-- Yeah.

we put, put, put the
link in the show notes.

and then the week before that I
was at Hatch, speaking about design

tools on, on the main stage, which
was slightly terrifying because,

Paula Scher was on a couple of hours
after me and I've-- She's just epic.

I managed to talk to her briefly
and, absolute design legend.

But yeah, that was a, another really
fantastic conference and still on LinkedIn

and Twitter c- there's constant chatter
from people that went and had their

minds blown by one talk or another.

and the talks are starting to be
shared online, so Bob Baxley's is out

and it's, it was one of my favorites.

So, that might be ano- We could
put that in the show notes as well.

If anyone just wants to spend 20 minutes
reminding themselves how good it is

to be a designer and, like, what's
important about it and why we do it.

He had this brilliant reminder to everyone
that we're all just building sandcastles

on the beach, so what we build doesn't
matter, it's who we build it with.

So just all, like, good stuff,
you know, good conference fodder.

And, Bob, was just so generous throughout
his time, at the conference, turned

up as an attendee, talked to everyone.

yeah.

and there's, there are quite a few,
potential podcast guests from, from either

the speakers or people that were at Hatch
that were, were particularly, interesting

or I managed to actually talk to.

So yeah, look out for some of those.

If you look at the Hatch lineup and
there's someone you would love to hear

more, more from, then, let us know and
we'll, we'll try and reach out to them.

I don't know how to get
through to Paula's people.

Maybe one day.

Maybe I'll work it out.

Tom: Yes.

Yes, I'm excited for that.

Do you think

Jonny: Paula

Tom: has a human team or is it
more AI agents we need to convince?

'Cause I feel like we could-- If it was

the latter, I feel like, we've

Jonny: I feel like
Pentagram are old school.

Yeah, I think they have like a…

Tom: Real

Jonny: Paula as a person.

Tom: messages.

Jonny: Yeah.

Yeah

Tom: sense.

Makes sense.

Well, maybe we could send a letter.

Go u- ultra old school.

Jonny: Yeah.

Yeah, some of the work she showed
was just really like old school

branding projects, just clever…

I think, you know, when you're in a room
f- full of designers but not many brand

designers, they can look at something
and both appreciate it but also realize

how hard it must have been to, to get to.

So it's like the perfect,
perfect crowd for, I think,

showing off beautiful brand work.

And sh- what impressed me was it
was all current stuff, you know?

She wasn't playing the hits
from, from back in the day.

It was all new projects that
she's working on today and,

yeah.

So that's another one to check out
when it goes up on the YouTubes

But yeah, busy, busy, busy
couple of weeks of travel.

and

Well, are we gonna talk
about what's next now or?

Tom: Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's talk about that.

Well, actually, before we talk
about what's next, should we t-

let's just talk about what's next.

You've been teasing it up.

I did want to talk a little bit
about the, the brand, stuff for

Mostly Working as well, which
is, But let's come back to that.

Let's go to the, the
thing we're teasing up.

So what is happening, Jonny, in October?

I hear there might be
something in the calendar

Jonny: Yeah.

So I feel like you should,
you should talk about this.

Yeah, I feel like this is-- yeah.

Because, because-- and it, it should
be said, w- this podcast is changing

to Mostly Working, but Mostly Working
was a name that Tom devised, for

the meetup, and he told me about it.

You told me about it a year ago
whenever you started the meetup, and

you were like: "Do you like this name?"

And I was like: "I like it so much
that I'm jealous of it, and I wish I

could-- I, I, I want this name to be
something that I am also involved in."

So, you know, you had me at, you had me at
the name, back when it was you and Simon

running your first meetup and wondering
whether it would be a thing at all, which

it turned out to very much be a thing.

So,

Tom: Yeah

Jonny: it is definitely your baby
to, the, the name, but also the

legacy that is the reason why this
podcast is changing its name to this.

So anyway, Tom, it's
for you to, to explain

Tom: So let's talk
about, about the meetup.

So it started in January,
Simon and I running this event

monthly-ish, really started out--
It actually started with Simon.

He messaged me saying, "Hey,
you do some stuff with AI and

get people together to do stuff.

Do you wanna partner up
and do something together?"

And,

and-- Oh, he also said, like, "We
can go to the office on the weekend

and hack on some stuff together.

It'd be cool."

I was like, "Oh, well, I am actually--
I'm interested in partnering on this.

I think it'd be a really great idea,
but, weekends just kind of don't work

for me because I have two young kids, and
yeah, can't really do that on a weekend.

But if you're interested in
doing something during, during

a weekday, we could try it out."

so that ended up happening.

We started running these morning
events for, like, half-day events

that were in, at the Sling office
at the time, now known as Morse.

And we got a bunch of featured
speakers that we were interested in

hearing from at companies like Fin.

Domingo from Fin came.

Ini, who was, at Fin at that time
as well, was also showing some work.

We had Simon sharing some of his own work
and how startups are, really exploring

the of what is possible with AI when
there's not the sort of structure of

a team to have to worry as much about.

And then over time, we've been getting
guests who are at bigger, more established

companies and how they're navigating
their AI teams through AI transitions.

We had James Storer, talking about
how Monzo-- how his team at Monzo

have built ways of working to enable
designers to work more closely with AI.

There's a whole range of things, and
it's been really fun seeing this,

this thing that started out as, "Oh,
we'll give people six days notice and

post something on the internet and see
what, see what happens, and maybe we'll

get 25 people who are interested."

I think the first time we had
close to 60 or 70 people sign up

who were interested in joining.

And then over time, it sort of
gradually built up, and the last

event we ran last month had 160
people interested in joining, and

we had space for about 30 or 40.

so this, this group of
people has been building up.

We, a lot of-- see a lot of regulars
as well, people who are coming

back and sharing what they've done.

my favorite example is someone
who came to the first, or I think

it was the second meetup we ran.

Before it, they had not played at all with
AI agents for building designs at all.

but they left that session
feeling so inspired.

They went home and, built a bunch of
stuff with, I think, Claude Code at the

time, and then they came back a month
later to the next one and said they've

got so far with their idea that there's
now VCs, like, interested in with them.

They built this incredible product.

They've just, like, been completely
h-hooked on what's possible.

And I think maybe that's an extreme
example, but I think it does show

the momentum that people who are
going to this and coming away

feeling really inspired and excited
by what they can do themselves.

And I think something that our
thesis all along with the work we've

been doing together, Jonny, in Near
Future has been you can't, you can't

really tell people about this stuff
and expect them to internalize it.

Like, you need to get your h-hands
on, you need to build stuff yourself,

and I think the work we've been
doing has really helped create the

conditions for people to do that.

And I think this meetup has been an
example of that, where it's brought people

together to share what they've been doing,
provided a little bit of accountability,

and generally created a structure that
has allowed people to reflect together

on the progress that they, they make.

So it's not just, "Oh, I made this thing.

It's really cool."

I made this thing and then I talked about
it with a bunch of other people who've

made similar things, and that's actually
changing how our team is working, and now

we have enough of a case to convince our,

executive leadership to invest more
in building our own prototyping repo

for the work we're doing, and then
that's helping the rest of the product

team speed up in how they're working.

Anyway, it's been, it's been really
fun to see this sort of unfold and

the community build up around this
event that we've been, been doing.

when a couple of friends at Monzo
reached out about potentially doing

something together in the near future,
excuse the pun, we thought, "Yeah,

that sounds really interesting."

so the thing we've been teasing all the
way along throughout this episode is

our biggest, special meetup yet, which
we're calling the Mostly Working Summit,

and it's happening on October 22nd.

The morning is gonna be hosted by Monzo,
so we'll, we'll run the event there.

We have space for about
100 people to participate.

That's mostly senior plus level
designers and design leaders.

Jonny: basically

Tom: anyone who is

working with sort of leadership teams in
their companies to help shape what design

can be and what the future of the design
practice looks like in their companies.

those are the perfect
people to be at this event.

We-- Jonny and I will share some notes and
reflections that probably expand on what

we're talking about in this episode today.

and then we're gonna be running a, a
couple of fireside chats talking about

the implications of how our craft is
changing in a few specific domains.

One is around tooling and, and
potentially design process, and

the other one is around and culture
change, within organizations.

we're also gonna be running, breakout
group round table discussions.

So those will be groups of about eight
people in each, and those will be-- each

have a host at a table, and they will be
leading a conversation that's around how

this-- how AI is changing the day-to-day
in how each of everyone is working.

So really, this is a chance just
to get together as a, as a group in

London, what's working, what's not
working, what's mostly working even.

and, and compare notes on that and, and
sort of soak in the energy together.

We're also-- That's the, that's the
morning of the Mostly Working Summit.

And in the afternoon, Jonny and I are
gonna be running our last ever, or

probably last ever, last ever for now,
paid build your own design tools workshop.

So if you've, if you've listened to this
far in the episode and you're interested

by what we were talking about earlier with
Brighton, we will be bringing that back

out for this session in the afternoon.

This, this half, the afternoon half
will be paid, but the morning is free.

Jonny: You

Tom: just need to apply through a
link we'll include in the show notes.

And that is it, I think.

Is there anything I missed, Jonny?

Jonny: Yeah.

W-- only if you, if you buy a
ticket to the afternoon, then

you get the morning guaranteed.

So we anticipate there'll be more than
100 people that apply for a morning

ticket, but, our workshop participants
will definitely get to go to the

morning as well if they want to.

and yeah, it's gonna be,
it's gonna be emotional.

the workshop is dead fun,
just like it's gonna be,

vibes is all I would say.

and the morning will be really--
I think it'll be like the-- one

of the biggest free gatherings of
designers to do this kind of stuff

that I've ever heard of, I think.

So,

yeah.

It's important.

This stuff's important to get people
together and have these conversations,

and there'll be lots of time in the
morning to have those conversations

in small groups and in breakout cups
of tea and, and stuff like that.

so if you're wondering whether it's
gonna be worth a half day off work,

or a half day of, of working from
an event or whatever it is, then,

yeah, I think it's gonna be great.

And it's not far away.

It's three weeks, so we gotta get our,

Tom: Wow.

Yeah

Jonny: wiggle on.

all of it will be at, mostlyworking.co,

which is our new domain.

So that starting off is basically the
event page for this event, for the summit,

but then that URL will evo-evolve to
be where the podcast is and everything

else in time as Tom and I get round to
it around other things that we're doing.

yeah, I think that's it.

And w- the-- I mean, the, the--
you mentioned this before, Tom, but

with a new name, of course, comes
a new brand again, again, again.

and Tom has largely been the
mastermind of this, and there's been,

once again, lots of tools built to
explore how brand works, and we're

taking the non-traditional route
in terms of how to, how to actually

even think about what it looks like.

And this first version
is the first version.

It will undoubtedly evolve, and
we'll think of new and better and

interesting different ways of the
brand appearing in, in various ways.

But Tom, did you wanna talk a
bit about the-- that evolution?

Tom: Yeah.

Well, I think the two things we find
that seem to take us the longest a

duo, number one is naming things,
and number two is branding things.

So, and I can say if, if you look at the
website, which will-- should be live by

the time this podcast episode goes out, if
you look at the website, I think I would

guess the, the, like 80 or 90% of the
time was spent on brand ideas, and then,

like, only the tiny 10% at the end was on
executing how that applies to a website.

But it was, it was very, very fun.

The, the thing that actually
probably took the most time was just

the, the lockup or the, the mark.

And I went into it thinking I want
this to feel like an evolution

of Near Future, so it doesn't…

we don't need to, like, completely
reinvent the wheel and start from scratch.

So maybe let's just pick a
different pastel color palette

evolve the mark slightly, but
sort of keep it in the same world.

And we started in that direction.

I think it is probably
pretty close to that.

But the, the thing that I couldn't
get out of my head was how the M

and the W are kind of like the same
shape if you turn something around,

an M and W are the, the same shape.

So I was, like, trying to explore ways
to sort of play with that and get that

to come to life, whilst also still
feeling like the world of Near Future.

So it was the squiggle, the
squiggly line in the middle, which

you originally created, Jonny.

it was using that as the core idea
and then this sort of reversing state

of the M and W, and then sort of got
that into a, a shape that felt good.

And then Claude just went
nuts from there, basically.

So, so we did that, that first part
the manual old way in Figma, moving

lines around and drawing boxes and went
through a bunch of different ideas.

And then once that was fairly close,
then dropped it into Claude Code and

had Claude generate a bunch of palette
tweakers, color palette tweakers for

the paper color and, things, and then
asset generators and motion graphics and

dithering effects, and basically sort
of gave it the core of the existing Near

Future visual brand elements, which are
quite lightweight already, and just asked

it to, like, fill in the gaps and apply
this new thing and, and flesh it out.

and so now, based on that, ran
one prompt over the weekend, which

was to generate a set of motion
design principles based on it.

And in a single prompt, it came back with
this, like, actually quite impressive

showcase of the motion principles for how
Mostly Working shows up in a, in a brand.

which was also, I think,
a testament to Opus 5.5,

having really good vector control
now and having much stronger

abilities around motion graphics.

But, yeah, got pretty far with that and
then just kept tweaking and kept sort of

playing with things and, oh, fun fact, I
don't know if this will actually make it

into the podcast in any way at all, but
if for those of, of you who have list-

listened to this podcast for a long time
now, a previous experiment was turning

the Near Future logo into an instrument.

And so I asked Claude to get Mostly
Working brand to play the Near Future logo

to create the intro music for the podcast.

it came up with like 12 different songs.

m- musical

Jonny: Dingles

Tom: dingles, jingles,

Jonny: Jingles?

Yeah.

Tom: And, yeah, I don't think any of them
are quite usable enough in their current

form, but, like, they're, bad, and they
were better than what I attempted with

Suno, which, was actually really bad.

So, or bad for what I was trying
to get out of it, I should say.

The quality was very high, but the
of what I wanted weren't as good.

So there's something kind of interesting
about this sort of evolving a brand

based on things that you sort of loosely
remember doing and pointing Claude at it

and saying, "Can you use this tool we made
somewhere else and apply that tool to this

new thing and see what you come up with?"

And I think there are a lot
of examples in working through

this together that felt like,

I probably would have got, I don't
know, a quarter of them if I'd manually

done it myself, in terms of, like,
opportunities for that kind of thing.

But having an agent work through
and identify what those things are

and pull them all together and, and
just generate a bunch of experiments

that I can pick from was super fun
and actually made me really excited

just to be building, building stuff.

And I keep thinking

about

Jonny: Yeah

Tom: what else I can build and,
brand tools have been a really fun

thing to, for me personally to build.

So yeah, it's been super fun.

So, maybe I'll do a separate short
episode or something that has a screen

share and walks through some of those
things just so I can bring those to

life a bit more 'cause it- not…

It's a bit late in the podcast to
switch on screen sharing now, but maybe

a short five-minute overview of those
motion principles to give you a flavor

could be coming soon as a bonus episode

Jonny: could also share,

Tom: clip.

Jonny: we could share an, an OODA link or
something potentially in the show notes

if people wanna play with it themselves.

The music stuff was particularly enjoyable
because it-- I think your brief must have

been like play, play the logo, but then it
showed the notes it was playing on a sort

of, I don't know what you would call it,
like a, a strip with, you know, high notes

at the top and low notes at the bottom,
and you could see the logo in there.

It was literally playing the
logo, but it still sounded good.

It must have picked a scale and, you
know, done it musically appropriately.

so it's the kind of thing that if you're
a human trying to do that, it would sort

of melt your brain to even attempt it.

Like, why would you even try and do that?

But it, yeah, it gave it sort of
a reason to exist that was nice.

Anyway, yeah, it was…

Tom-- I was just doing other stuff, and
Tom just kept sending me these links.

Kept opening them and being
like, "What's he doing now?"

It's this madness.

the, the joy of it.

The joy of it all

Tom: Yeah.

I think also just doing it on your
phone, like, all weekend I was solo

parenting, and so occasionally I would,
I don't know, put the kids to bed

and then like, oh, I should just…

I've been thinking about
this thing all day.

Let me just like do a voice note into
my phone, get Claude's running-- Claude

Code running at, like, how do we create
this pixel generator for this pixel

dither effect, that I had in my mind,
and how do I explain that over voice?

And then an hour later, Claude's
back with like, "Is this what you had

Jonny: Here it is.

Tom: like, yeah, it's

Jonny: Yeah.

Tom: close, pretty close.

but I, I think at the same time, it, it
was also kind of a realization that the

tools are incredibly powerful now, but
I think without original concept of the,

line, the, the sort of core drawing basic
shapes in Figma to set things on a path

and without sort of the guardrails of
here's the existing reference materials

to take from, I think that would not
have gone anywhere near as smoothly.

I think it had enough of the
right kind of guardrails around

it to get somewhere really good.

I mean, you may look at it and disagree
about whether it's good or not.

But, but it, it felt, it felt
like sort of directionally where

I was trying to get to, so that

was quite rewarding.

Jonny: Hmm.

And you do get the odd Easter egg,
like something you haven't thought

of and it will just create it
and that'll spark a new thing and

actually take you in a new direction.

That's the joy.

I think that's the, the most interesting
bit is it sort of-- it's like a sort of,

a, a randomness machine in the
sense that it will, it will spit

out like the Crazy Eights maybe.

It'll spit out seven bad ideas and
one unexpectedly good idea, and

you can just sort of run with it.

So, generating serendipity in that
way is, it's, it's a, it's a good tool

Tom: Yeah, that's so true.

There's also something else I've
been reflecting on with this process,

which is there's various a- AI
image generation tools that you

can use to generate sort of visual
assets and visual styles for things.

but they're always a little
bit unpredictable as to how

good or bad they're gonna be.

And, actually, the assets for Mostly
Working events were pretty much all

created in Flora, which is an AI image
generation tool, and it always took

like 10, 12 different attempts at the
same or close to the same prompt to

get something that feels about right.

It's sort of out of your hands, but
there's something going through this,

the process this time around that more
deterministic because you're building

the tools that generate the type
of imagery that you're looking for.

And maybe this is because the
imagery is relatively and, achievable

to create deterministically.

That wouldn't be true for a
lot of art direction styles.

but it w- was quite interesting to that
probabilistic intent to the tool creation,

but then the tool comes back, and that
is actually-- that has the, a level of

Jonny: Yeah

Tom: I, I would like to be able to,
like, really tweak things enough

to get them to the place I'm really
happy with, as opposed to Flora,

which could get something like
90% there, but just, I don't know,

something didn't quite feel right, and

Jonny: Yeah

Tom: it required sort of poking around
in the dark until something happened.

So yeah, sort of made me think a
bit sort of slightly differently

about AI taking over these roles.

It's less about what the AI itself can
produce than it is about AI producing

tools that allow you to produce the
thing that you're trying to get to, and

that is a bit of a slightly different
mental model, but one that I'm, very

excited to continue building with.

Jonny: Well, we will see how the brand
evolves and we'll create more and more.

I, I feel like this is the start.

I've already got tons of ideas
for like jumping off this now and,

and, I'm sure you do too, Tom.

We just need enough events and
enough podcast episodes to be able

to bring all of these things to life.

And if anyone wants to buy a tote bag,
we will design it s- and you can buy it.

Or some other, maybe
a, a mechanical pencil.

I don't know.

We, we need, we need new ways to
bring the brand to life so that

we can keep building tools for it

Tom: Yeah.

Also,

you can

Jonny: I've

Tom: tell people you're, you're a
designer without saying you're a designer.

Jonny: Yeah, exactly

Tom: the stuff that is energizing.

Anyway, let's, I think we've
covered a lot of ground.

We've-- Let's wrap up, unless there's any

Jonny: Yeah

Tom: thoughts you have, Jonny?

Jonny: No, please, as always,
let us know what you think.

This is actually a really
important moment to do that.

so either on, on our emails.

We're-- Our emails will switch over at
some point, but not quite yet, so you can

still get to podcast@nearfuture.works.

or find one of us on LinkedIn.

We've probably posted about this by
the time you're listening, so comment

on there or, or whatever it is.

But yeah, as always, especially
now more than ever, we really

want this podcast to be good.

and we want to think hard about
how to make it so, so your

feedback is mega valuable.

And that's it

Tom: Yeah.

And you can expect the, the name
if you were looking for Near Future

in your YouTube feed or LinkedIn or
something, it may now be Mostly Working.

This is why.

Jonny: This is one

Tom: that handover's gonna,
gonna happen right now, but, if

in doubt, go to mostlyworking.co

and that should point you
in the right direction

Jonny: Yeah.

Mega.

Thank you, Tom.

Tom: Thank you, Jonny.

Jonny: Thanks everyone.

Tom: Bye.

Jonny: Bye-bye