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The focus of this episode revolves around the captivating journey of Steve, a former F15 pilot and now an accomplished airline pilot, who shares his remarkable experiences, including a harrowing incident involving a forced water landing that tested his mettle and resilience. Steve recounts his transition from military aviation to civilian flying, emphasizing the importance of mentorship and the invaluable lessons gleaned from both successes and failures throughout his career. He articulates the profound influence of early aviation experiences, particularly the initial inspiration garnered from a neighbor's airplane construction project, which ignited his passion for flight. The discussion further delves into the nuances of backcountry flying, underscoring the freedom it affords compared to the structured environment of commercial aviation. Ultimately, Steve's narrative serves as a testament to the spirit of adventure, the significance of continuous learning, and the enduring bonds formed within the aviation community.
Takeaways:
Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
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Cox call sign Freak from the
Air Force so that starts the the
Aviation story.
AV Nation what is going on?
And welcome back to the Pilot
the Pilot Podcast.
My name is Justin Seams and I
am your host.
Today's episode's a great one.
It is with cleared direct on
Instagram, on YouTube.
Had a lot of fun talking with him.
You know he was a F15 pilot,
he flies for major airline, gets
in the back country, tells an
epic story about how he crashed a
bonanza in a river and had to
swim with a broken hand with his
wife.
That's probably gonna be clipped.
You probably saw.
That's probably why you're
here to be honest with you, because
that story was just so wild.
It was great having Steve on.
Steve is a very humble, very
impressive guy to talk to.
I had a lot of fun chatting
with him.
Shout out to Steve for waking
up early to do this with me as it
was a great, great time.
AV Nation, I hope you're
enjoying these podcasts.
We are getting back to doing
weekly podcast this year has been
a little bit more on the
difficult side for everyone over
here in the Seams household.
But you know, we're trying to
get through more on that probably
later possibly, but we are.
Yeah record as much as possible.
I appreciate you asking
questions about what's going on or
appreciate you just reaching out.
But yeah, we are getting some
podcasts out.
We are making sure we are
still doing the podcast as often
as we can and it's been great.
It's been great to talk to you
all until talk to Steve and feel
like we're best friends now.
He probably doesn't feel it.
He's probably like God, I'm so
glad the podcast over with but it
was a good time.
It's a good time chatting with
Hope you enjoy this podcast.
Without any further ado,
here's Steve from Cleared Direct.
I want to kind of touch a
little bit on I played football.
I was a D1 football player so
it's nice to see another athlete
enter aviation.
I always say that athleticism
or not athleticism but athletes and
pilots have a lot in common.
There's a lot of training.
There's a lot of kind of like
put in practice, practice, practice.
Perfect your craft so you can
be the safest pilot you can be, have
the best flight you can have
or win the competition that you're
in if you're whether you're
doing aerobatics or you're just competing
in your sport in general.
But it's always great to talk
to another athlete.
I think it'd be awesome if we
can see more athletes come because
there is some such a correlation.
But I want to talk a little
bit about the mentality that you
had going from, you know, swimming.
I'm guessing your goal was to
be in the Olympics.
I'm guessing that's kind of
like where the kind of the top end
of being a swimmer is, right?
Well, I, I probably for most
but as with everything, there's a
little bit of a oddity oddity
to me.
I I actually my, my main sport
in high school is water polo and
I actually was recruited to at
the time PAC 10 schools for that
thought about going to
Stanford, UCLA or whatnot.
But I also really liked the
idea of airplanes and being an aeronautical
engineer and Bert Rutan was
one of my kind of heroes growing
up.
I know total nerd but myself
but, but so I went to Cal Poly to
follow in his footsteps.
He was an aeronautical
engineer from from Cal Poly and and
they didn't have a water polo team.
So I just kind of walked onto
the swim team and and really knew
that that wasn't gonna take me
to the Olympics, since that was kind
of my backup sport.
Just wanted to get that letter
and stay in shape and get some sun,
you know what I mean?
So.
Absolutely.
I love the west coast vibe.
I get the west coast vibe big time.
I love it, man.
It's.
I mean, just talking about
water polo, like, I grew up in the
East Coast.
Water polo is not a thing.
I don't think.
I can't even think of.
I don't know if schools have
water polo.
I think.
Well, I think Princeton, a
couple of Ivy leagues have it, but
yeah, it's kind of, I should
say southeast, snooty sport out there,
but it' a kind of a badass
sport in the.
On the west coast.
And I mean, yeah, my sister's
a pro surfer her whole career, so
definitely living the west
coast vibe.
Yeah, I love it, dude.
Yeah, it's funny, the
differences, you know, West Coast,
Southeast, the East Coast, Northwest.
And now you're living in the
Northwest, you probably see the differences
there as well.
It's very much west.
West coast still, though.
Yeah.
That's awesome that you had.
You had someone that you kind
of looked up to and you wanted to
follow in their footsteps.
What was it about Burt Rutan
that you really kind of wanted to
end?
Gosh, dude.
He was just a groundbreaker, right?
He was kind of the first to
lean into the whole composites world.
And my neighbor across, you
know, so he was from Mojave in Southern
California, and this really
ties in the whole origin story together
is my neighbor across the
street in Agoura Hills, California,
was building one of the first
Lancaira kits.
If, you know, experimental,
you'll know Lancair.
They're just the first, like
super sleek, just beautiful lines.
He's building that in his garage.
And I was just.
I would probably annoy the
hell out of him as an 8 year old,
right?
But he was so great and showed
me everything about this airplane
and about flying.
Took me flying.
We actually flew to Mojave and
kind of saw.
I didn't get the tour of
Scaled Composites or whatever it
was called back then, but.
But that was kind of the, you
know, the whole origin story, especially
tying in with experimental
aviation, because that's always what
I've wanted to do.
I think I turned nine and I
asked for a Lance Air for my birth
or a Long Easy, because I just
love the looks of all the composite
sleek, which is weird that I
built a boxy aluminum riveted bush
plane, but it's kind of all I
could afford right now.
I'm sure the 9 year old didn't
understand the cost of a Lance Air.
Yeah, absolutely.
And they were quite a bit cheaper.
Yeah, it's still expensive.
You look back in the day,
people say the flight hours were
$25 an hour, but $25 an hour was.
Or $25 is way more expensive
back then.
You know, I mean, obviously
it's more expensive now, but it's
still comparative.
It's still not cheap to go fly
your planes.
Totally.
Oh, my gosh.
So what was.
So you wanted to be a pilot?
You wanted to kind of get in
aviation Athletics seems like something
that always kept you busy.
Seems like you're a guy that,
like you said, you're always on the
go.
You always wanted to do something.
You know, competing is
probably something you like.
You like testing yourself.
You like pushing yourself to
the limits.
Was there any kind of
progression from Bert Rutan the Lancer
asking one when you're nine
years old to actually flying kind
of before you got to the Air
Force, or is all the flying done
in the Air Force?
No.
Good question.
I.
Let's see.
Okay, so.
Oh, God, I don't know if I
should tell this.
Oh, you.
Whenever you start out with I
don't know if I should tell this,
you have to tell it.
That's the rule of a podcast.
All right.
No, this is good because
nobody knows this.
I love it.
Except my buddy Mike.
That is not our freshman year.
I hadn't quite grown up into
the athlete quite yet, and I played
the bass drum in the marching
band, and we went to this marching
band performance thing in
Camarillo, California.
He and I said, this is lame.
Was like my last thing with
the marching band, clearly.
And we snuck off and we, like,
went to the airport, and some guy
pulls up in his brand new to
him Stearman and said, hey, boys,
want to go for a ride?
I think about this now and I
go, oh, my God, what was I thinking?
But as a.
As a, I don't know, freshman
in high school, I'm like, hell, yeah,
let's do it.
Let's go.
Yeah, sure.
Baseball bat, stick in the
front seat.
We hop in and blast out over
the beautiful Pacific Ocean.
And I don't think we did any,
like, barrel or loops or aileron
rolls or anything, but it was
magical open cockpit.
And, you know, I was pretty
set on aviation at that point.
But after that, it was forget
about it and forget about marching
band athletics.
No offense to anyone in
marching man.
All right.
It is no no, no, no, no.
I just.
Didn't suit me, man.
Yeah, absolutely.
Did your parents kind of
understand this aviation?
Was there any aviation in
their background or was this pretty
formal?
They didn't quite.
They were both marriage and
family therapists.
In fact, they were.
My dad was the therapist to
the Menendez brothers.
Dad, Parents.
No.
Yeah, like, nice, nice job.
Dad failed on that one.
He was his fault.
Right.
But he tried to get the.
I'm not even going to go there.
But that's.
That was my.
My folks, they're kind of over
educated, under socialized, if you
will.
So I.
This is all on my own.
And they're supportive, but
not financially and not really, you
know, feeding into it, but
they kind of got that I had a passion
and are still to this day
understand now what it's led to,
but I'm appreciative for their support.
But, yeah, I think I just took
out a student loan at Cal Poly, another
student loan, and Cal Poly
wasn't that expensive, but threw
down on my pilot's license
that I think 100 years ago cost like
$2,500.
Sorry, guys.
Everyone's like, but what a
great place.
To get your license.
Coastal California is awesome.
In the summer between my
sophomore and junior year and.
Or maybe one year later
because I got my license.
Two funny things about that.
I was.
I had like 40.2 hours.
I wanted to hardcore do it.
And like, in fact, I had to
fly to Bakersfield.
I took off with like 39 hours,
got my 40th hour on the way to the
DPE to get my checkride.
And the other funny thing is,
is that it was my 21st birthday,
so we partied that night.
Yeah.
I mean, what better way to celebrate?
Hopefully there's no flying
after the party, but, you know, better
way to celebrate.
I got my license.
Yeah.
And I lost it.
Going back to kind of parents and.
And doing something that's so
different, like aviation.
To someone that doesn't know
aviation, it's just so foreign to
them.
Right.
Like anytime your kid comes up
to you and just like, I want to do
something that's not kind of
what the family has done or what,
you know, it's just so foreign.
And it's up to the parent to
find a way to support them.
As someone that is a parent,
how do you think someone can do that
right now?
Like, there's a lot of people
that could be 13, 14, 15 listening
to this podcast with their
parents in the car, and the parents
are like, I don't know how to
Support my kid in aviation because
I'm an accountant.
I'm a therapist to a family,
whatever it may be.
How would you recommend or
what you've seen with your parents
and what you do with your kids
to help support.
You know, I think here's.
This is.
This is going to be a hot take
or a controversial thing.
I think you just have to
support them and say, do it, go for
it.
It's as long as it makes you
happy and be there for them.
It is not your job as a parent.
I got three kids.
It's not my job as a parent to
make it happen for them.
That's on them.
Right.
Their job is to go to school
and to be contributing citizens and
good people to support them
for their ventures.
Yeah.
Maybe help them out with
undergrad and college if that's what
they want to do.
Help them out and give them
pointers and recommendations and
advice.
But it's not.
I don't look at it as my job
as a parent to make it happen for
them.
And maybe that's because my
parents really didn't make it happen
for me.
I had to figure it out.
So I guess I'm a bad dad.
No, no, not at all.
I got three kids.
My eldest.
Eldest is following a little
bit in my footsteps.
She's off to University of Michigan.
Gonna go rotc.
I didn't do rotc, but she's
gonna be.
She wants to be a doctor, so
she wants to be a aerospace surgeon.
So flight doc we grew up with.
She grew up with.
You know, each squadron I was
in had a flight doc assigned to us,
and they were awesome people
and took care of us.
And they only had, you know,
their 25 pilots plus their families.
And so they had the time to be
fricking awesome.
And she wants to do that.
So I'm super proud of her.
And.
And go blue.
Ah, that's painful for you to
say, man.
I went to.
I bought Ohio State.
No, I didn't even know that.
Yeah, we're gonna hit stop
right now.
Good day.
Wish you the best.
No, I'm just kidding.
That's cool, though.
It's fine.
Whatever.
We won the national championship.
It's.
I don't really care if we lose
Michigan anymore.
It's all about national
championships now.
All right.
But I just wanted to say my
wife is a doctor.
One of her really good friends
was a flight doctor and then is doing
a civilian residency as well.
Very well rounded, great
doctor, great person.
So it's a great route to go.
So.
Yeah, that'd be awesome for.
Yeah.
Couldn't be more proud of her.
That's great.
I mean, she has bad taste in
schools and color.
Other than that, I hear Ann
Arbor is great in the fall.
That's about all I know.
I can confirm.
That's cool though, man.
I.
I agree with everything that
you've said about parenting and giving
your kid the opportunities.
And it's up to them to figure
it out because you can't hold a kid's
hand forever.
Right?
Like, I mean, yeah, they have
to pass a check, ride with the dp
and you are not going to be
able to help them or they're going
to have to overcome adversity
in the airplane.
As you know, things happen in
cockpits and you can't call your
dad at 37,000ft.
Hey, dad.
Hydraulic failure.
What do I do?
You know, you got to do it.
You just got to.
You got to eventually do it
and bite the bullet and just go for
it.
So.
Yeah, totally agree with you now.
Private pilot license, you
said sophomore, junior.
Ish.
Year of high school.
No, of college.
Of college.
Okay.
Of college.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And were you kind of on a war
path of, I'm gonna be a professional
pilot, I'm gonna go to the Air
Force, or were you kind of just seeing
where it all took you?
Yeah.
So fresh.
I went to.
I.
I went to Cal Poly and got
into aeronautical engineering, like.
Like Bert Rutan and then hit
calculus and said, this ain't for
me.
Much like Marching man, this
ain't for me Deuces.
So I switched to a major
called industrial technology, which
was awesome.
And you know, it's a joke
because it stands.
Industrial technology.
It actually stands for.
I tried engineering, so it had
a lot of the engineering dropouts.
One of them.
So at that point I knew.
I'm like, okay, well, I'm not
gonna be an engineer.
I wanna.
I wanna not design these things.
I wanna fly them.
I was singing airlines and I
just, I.
I was intimidated about all
the cost.
I didn't want to live on
peanuts like a lot of you guys do
out in the audience.
Good on you.
You know, with the drive to.
To get all those ratings.
And I just, I.
I decided, you know what?
Air Force is probably the best
way to get my training paid for and.
Yeah, make a little bit of
money doing it.
I'll do it for eight years or
whatever the pilot training commitment
was.
And I was the first guy to
sign the 10 year.
Oh, my gosh, the pilot
training contract.
I was class 0001 at officer
training school.
And they had.
I get to MEPs, they're like,
I'm enlisting or signing the paperwork
to go to commissioning.
And I'm like, hey, what does
that say?
My eyes weren't as bad as they
are right now.
And they go.
And I actually said 10 years
versus A.
I thought they said, well,
what are you gonna do there, mister?
Like, took a bus, three hours
to go, you know, join the air Force.
And I'm like, I'm not gonna.
I have two years, whatever.
But then I realized it's after
pilot training, which is like two
years.
So suddenly I'm at the 12 year
point going, well, might as well
try to get the.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Dang, that's.
That's a sneaky one right
there, right?
Oh, we said eight, but yeah,
it's ten now.
Oh, yeah.
Just kidding.
Kind of committed now.
No turning back.
All right, so you, you know,
you signed the papers.
Did you have any regrets?
Did you have any kind of like
sticker shock?
Like, oh, my gosh, what did I do?
Not really.
I.
Because, like, I expected the worst.
I was amazed at the people
that did have regrets, especially
the pilot candidates that were
at officer training school that,
like, dropped out because they
didn't like it and yelled at.
I'm like, dude, this is a game.
Like, have you ever heard of
this thing called the military?
Like, get through training and
you're going to be a pilot.
It's going to be badass.
So.
But they, like, dropped out.
I'm like, okay, well, it's
probably better that they dropped
out now because, yeah, the
yelling might stop, but it's not
going to get any easier.
Yeah, so.
So no.
No buyer's remorse.
Especially when I, you know,
got into the fighter.
I actually didn't even want fight.
I didn't know I wanted fighters.
Turns out I loved it.
Glad I did.
But I, you know, like I said,
I was just like, okay, eight years,
get my tickets, go off to the
airline and got a fighter.
And it kind of sucks you into
that culture and that environment.
And it's taken me a few years
to kind of get out of it.
And this YouTube channel's.
My YouTube channel is part of
the whole, you know, thing of.
I wanted to kind of share some
of those amazing scenes and beautiful
landscapes and some of the
crazy, you know, just dog fights.
And unfortunately, a lot of
that you can't share because of classification.
But towards the end, they're
starting to let me bring a GoPro
in the camera as long as they
reviewed it.
So that kind of kickstarted my
interest in, in YouTube.
Nice.
What was trading like for you?
Like, you mentioned the
yelling, you mentioned the screaming,
but that didn't really seem to
be a problem for you.
No, I mean, it was 13 weeks.
Whatever.
Good.
Yeah.
And I liked how you mentioned
it was a game.
Because, I mean, any kind of
training scenario, it is a game.
The number one thing you need
to think of is cooperate, graduate.
Right.
Like, just play the game, play
into it.
The more you try to do
something different, the more they're
either going to make an
example out of you or the worse it's
going to be on yourself.
So try to make it easy for yourself.
Yep.
Yeah.
So as far as the, the
officer's training, I, I kind of
liked it.
I, I was the, let's see, what
did they assign me?
The, the PT leader.
I was like the ot.
Captain Cox was the wing
commander or wing.
Wing fitness guy.
So.
But then off to pilot
training, I got like.
I got into this weird
headspace of like, God, if I fail
out of this, what are my
parents gonna think and what am I
gonna do with myself?
So I kind of got a little.
I went through a period where
I was a little overly intense and
like, just scared of failure
and that it motivated me to a point.
But, you know, there's that
whole, you know, stress versus performance
scale.
I was kind of at that peak and
then falling off the other side,
the bad side of too much stress.
So we, you know, I kind of.
I had a, I had a German
instructor pilot of all.
Of all nationalities, German
guy sit me down and says, I think
my, my call sign and pilot
training was stubby.
Kind of natural with the last name.
Right.
Anyway, he goes, I can't do a
German accent.
But he goes, stubby, you need
to smoke some crack.
What?
And is an American or a Dutch
guy came over, he said, what are
you.
Oh, he means you need to like,
smoke some weed and relax.
So I was just so uptight for
the first few months of pilot training
because I was at the show, right?
I was at Air Force pilot training.
Not only.
I was at njep, the Euro NATO
Joint Jet Pilot Training Program.
So I was, I was like, I took
that pressure serious, so which is
good.
So I didn't take his advice
and get into the, the drug.
The drugs.
But, but I, I just kind of
started exercising more, which I
think I stopped doing, which I
think was a big problem.
I mean, imagine yourself just
like after D1 and just dropping it
all at the, at the drop of a hat.
I was doing half Iron Mans
leading into the Air Force, and then
I just dropped it for pilot training.
I'm like, okay, no, I need to
go out for a run and just get those
endorphins back.
But that.
That really helped.
Now, it's very healthy for you
to mention that you're kind of on
a dangerous path of.
For the pressure and putting
it on yourself.
Is that something you realize?
Like, obviously, the German
instructor helped you realize it
too, but was it something you
were able to overcome relatively
easily once you figured it
out, or was this kind of like a difficult
spiral and something you.
Could you continue to struggle
with throughout your training?
No, I.
It was a.
It was a poignant moment in
that it kind of pulled me out of
it, and I was open to it.
And I realized that, yeah, this.
This is.
This is not sustainable for me.
I'm.
I'm that SoCal kid, the laid
back guy.
And if anything, it kind of
went too far because in, you know,
I did really well.
I got my F15.
And at the time, that was kind
of the premier fighter before the
F22 came online.
And.
And then in F15 school, I was
a little bit too laid back.
But in.
In my own defense, I was the
first active duty class to go through
an Air National Guard training
program at Klamath Falls.
They had flown F16s.
They just learned how to fly
the F15, and now they're instructing
the F15.
And the former schoolhouse at
Tyndall was known to be just a ball
buster.
Just like, eat your young,
like, you will graduate, you know,
really, really good, but also
really, really scared of any instructor
pilot.
And this was the opposite.
So I had this like, hey, you
guys are the.
You're the first students that
earned your F15 because we got guard
babies.
Nothing against guard babies.
I would have gone that route
if had I known about it.
That's a great way to go.
But they all got their F15
before they went to pilot training.
We had to compete for it, so
we were all pretty decent.
And.
And they were like, they're
like, asking us, hey, how was that
brief?
Like, who you're asking me,
how is that brief?
Because they just learned how
to fly the F15s.
And so the training was.
I don't want to disparage the
program, but they know it.
They needed to step up their game.
And so they produced a
substandard F15 wingman at the time.
And when I heard about it,
man, when I got to Alaska, that's
how I earned my call sign.
I went to Alaska and I'm like,
check in time.
Like, you start up your aircraft.
It's the time that you got to
be on the right frequency with your
jet all program ready to rock.
And I'm like, no, wait for me.
That wasn't exactly my
mentality, but.
But that's, you know, that's
just kind of a.
A basic, you know, recap of
kind of what happened.
And so that's how I got.
I don't know if you care, but
that's how I got the call sign freak,
which is like sort of a
frequency for eq because I wasn't
on the right frequency as well
as I'm a big.
I'm 6 foot 4 to 20.
I'm a big tall freak.
So, like, freaking out on someone.
Oh, no.
Well, there's.
There's another classified
story that I can't get in to here.
But that's the basic, basic.
I like pilot after hours.
But yeah, hopefully.
I know.
I don't know.
I can't even remember what the
initial question, I guess the whole,
you know, spiraling.
Yeah, I shifted and kind of
went too far the wrong way.
So that is a hazard too, is
you could get too relaxed.
And so it's just finding that
balance of like I was talking about
earlier, that stress versus
performance scale of keeping yourself
kind of at that optimal,
optimal place.
What was military flying like
for you?
A lot of people say it's very fulfilling.
You know, you're training to
do a mission, you go out, do the
mission.
It's like a brotherhood, a
sisterhood, talk about the actual
flying itself.
I mean, obviously you liked it
because you were in there past the
12 years that you were
supposed to be there.
So it's not like you just did
it because you had to.
Right?
21.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
So it's.
After a while, it's kind of
all, you know, I mean, at the time
I could.
Was eligible to get out, it
was like 2008, just financial crisis,
great recession or whatever.
Take me back.
So I'm like, I'm like, yeah,
I'm staying in, man.
I'm gonna go be a check of the
month club kind of guy and.
But the flying is.
Is amazing.
And it is a culture, is
absolutely a culture that I had to
learn how to operate within.
As I mentioned earlier, I was,
you know, overly laid back guy getting
to my first squadron and I had
to kind of buckle down and then.
And then I became somebody I
wasn't again.
You know, it's just part of
life and growing and figuring out
who you are.
And so there was a time where
I was miserable, honestly.
I was trying to figure out how
to be a new husband living in the
state of Alaska in a fighter squadron.
It was like the premier Eagle
squadron because we had these new
V2 radars.
We were first to get the Aim
9X and the JamX fancy helmet.
So you couldn't swing a dead
cat without hitting about five patch
wearers, like essentially the
Air Force equivalent of Top Gun guy.
So here I am, this brand new
lieutenant, just getting his, you
know, butt handed to him.
So, so I, I was kind of
miserable trying to figure out things.
And it wasn't till, I'd say
the second half of my career that
I figured it out.
I mean, the flying was
fantastic, don't get me wrong.
I mean, it was, that was amazing.
The, the, and then the Friday
afternoon shenanigans at roll call
was always super fun.
I was always making the videos
and having a great time.
But, but as far as like, you
know, getting myself in the books
and studying the tactics,
there's a lot to know.
And you got to be like not
only an athlete to literally, to
withstand the G forces, you've
got to, you know, take care of yourself
nutritionally.
And you know, you're a young
guy at that point.
You can kind of get away with
it drinking too much beer and having
too much dip and popcorn and whatnot.
But, but, but athletically you
got to keep somewhat shape to pull
those GS and just to suffer
through, you know, a 12 hour debrief.
I mean, the debriefs can be
really, really long.
Like your days are sometimes
pushing 20 hours long.
And so in that regard you got
to be in good shape.
And then you got to
essentially get yourself a law degree
within the fighter squadron.
Like, because these, these
AFTPs, the tactics, techniques and
procedures manuals that you
got to read are, are long and involved
and sometimes they're not
written super well and they're getting
better and better.
And so you're trying to figure
out what does this mean?
And then you don't want to
bother an older fighter pilot because
they're grouchy also.
And so you're just kind of
figuring this out amongst all the
lieutenants.
And then you're also reading
about the threats.
You got to be not only the
master of your own domain, you got
to understand what the threat
is offering to you.
So my point is it's busy and I
didn't do the best job in time management.
And also I'm Divorced now is
just the wrong person to be married
to.
And so that added to the
struggle and then living in Alaska.
I mean, the.
I'm not a.
I'm not like a dark weather person.
I think a seasonal affective disorder.
I'm painting this like,
horrible picture.
I'll get to the good stuff
here in a second.
But, but the dark was tough
for me in the, in the wintertime,
summertimes were great,
although it was pretty cloudy all
the time, but.
And then you can't sleep
because it's, you know, like 21 hours
a day.
Yeah, yeah.
But, but over to the flying
man and then the camaraderie.
There's nothing like, you
know, going to a red flag or actual
deployment and just building
the bonds with the bros and, and
then, you know, being
responsible for not only a $50 million
jet with about $15 million
worth of serious weapons on board,
you're also potentially in
charge of the folks you're trying
to defend or the, the folks,
you know, that whether it be wingman
or high value airborne assets
or folks on the ground and just understanding
the different missions.
And once you start to kind of
figure out where you belong in the
whole Air Force world, there's
a lot of F15 guys that think they're
on the pointy spear.
You know, I'm sorry to break
it to you fellas, but you're a support
asset.
I can say that now.
I mean, we, you know, we're
there to do offensive counter error
or defensive counter error or
high value airborne asset, which
is essentially defensive.
So you're either offense or
defensive for other guys.
Bomb droppers, we don't drop
the bombs.
We just, you know, we are the
mission in more of a defensive, but
we're rarely defensive.
Right.
In a big picture thing sense.
So when it all starts
clicking, especially when your relationship
with the bros is good, with
your boss is good, you know, you're
bringing up some younger
wingman as an instructor.
That's, that's when it all
comes together.
And my best assignment by far
was my operational test and evaluation
where I was not deploying and
I was putting.
Put in charge of developing or
helping develop new missiles and
test flying those missiles and
radar systems and, and data and,
and I got to shoot some pretty
amazing missile shots.
So that was super rewarding.
And I think it, you know, I
make, you know, I'm more of an athlete
than geek, but I definitely
have a big geek side too.
And I nerded out over some of
the cool capabilities that these,
these weapons could.
Yeah, Absolutely.
Especially when you start
getting some data that other people
don't have.
You're like, oh dang, that's sick.
That's pretty cool.
You mentioned that the second
half of your career you kind of felt
more confident.
You know, you felt like you
fit in more.
Was that a confidence thing?
Was that just like, you know,
other people could do it better,
other people have been done it longer.
You mentioned the grouchiness
of the older fighter pilot.
Was it kind of just a
confidence thing of fitting in and
just being, believing in
yourself, would you say?
I think so, yeah.
I think a lot of it just, just
does come with maturity and there
was some, a divorce in the mix
that kind of sets you aside both
financially and just mentally
for a few years.
And so that's really tough.
The biggest advice I'd give to
the younger folks is just don't be
in a rush to get married.
I mean, you definitely change.
You can tell my whole story is
about how I've changed through my
career.
Excuse me.
And to, to think that that
person's gonna grow with you.
It absolutely happens.
But the, the odds get higher
the older you get.
I'll just kind of say it like that.
So, so yeah, I definitely
matured and, and, and grew with self
confidence and just kind of
been, became more okay in my own
skin.
And there's a big part of me
who doesn't fit in as a fighter pilot.
I mean, I kind of portray it a
little bit, but, but I, you know,
I know that there probably
would have been more, more different
careers that would have fit my
exact personality better.
Like maybe social media
influencer, just goofball on TV or
something.
Or maybe I should have kept
going with swimming or triathlon,
I don't, I don't know.
But, but you know, I wasn't
the, I wasn't the most naturally
gifted bfmer dogfight, basic
fighter maneuvers.
You know, I wasn't the best in
the cockpit by, by any stretch.
I mean there's some seriously
talented fighter there.
But I, I made it work and I,
you know, fake faked it till.
I made it right, dude, that's
the most important thing.
Fake it till you make it.
I preach that.
You know, just keep doing it.
You'll convince yourself one
day that you're going to do it and
eventually it's just going to click.
This is what you got to do.
I mean most people, I mean
even, even the most cocky fighter
pilot out there has some self
doubt in there that, that drives
them to be, to be better.
So just listen to that.
To a point.
But also, you know, take care
of yourself, man.
Yeah, absolutely.
Especially when you are trying
to be the best.
When you're in very high
pressure situations, whether it's
a fighter pilot, whether it's
an athlete, whether it's a doctor,
you can really neglect your
personal care.
You can neglect the people
around you.
You can just be so laser
focused on what you need to achieve
and kind of forget the whole
thing that you're living life, that
you need to try to enjoy these
moments because this moment is temporary
and it's fleeting.
And one day you're going to
look back on it and be like, dang,
I wish I would have smiled.
I wish I would have known
these people better.
You're like that guy.
They're really good friends.
How come?
You know, it's just like, just
enjoy where you are.
It's very hard.
There's like a decade in my
life where I'm like, God, I wish
I could have done that over again.
I know, right?
You know, everyone has that
and it's okay.
That's the worst.
Yeah, it's okay.
If you're in the situation
right now, it's just try to recognize
it before it's too late.
Right?
Try to recognize what's
important to yourself.
Yeah, exactly.
And be honest with yourself too.
In the, in that, hey, if
something's not working, like, there's
a.
My.
My wife is on this, like
spouses of airline pilots Facebook
group.
And, and there was this one post.
I'm.
Maybe I shouldn't say this,
but this poor guy was like, kept
failing checkrides and whatnot.
And his spouse was on there
like, what.
Who could we talk to?
What could we do?
And my wife and I look, I look
at each other like, maybe it's just
not for you, man.
I mean, let's be honest, it's
not for everybody.
And, and that's okay, you
know, make it.
Find something that does make
you happy.
And I didn't have the
pressures of parents telling me that.
How to do this, right?
So I was free to do whatever I want.
And I feel lucky to have that passion.
So.
But if that passion.
Yeah, but I mean, to be fair,
if I wasn't any good at what I do,
and you know, I'm not the
best, but if it just wasn't working
out, that scares me.
Like, I don't know what else I
would do, right?
Maybe go back to sports or
something or just make goofy videos.
But, But I hear you.
It's.
There's some people who have A
hard time giving up on the, on the
dream.
That would suck.
So.
Especially when you get so close.
Right.
You made it to the airlines.
You know, you see this multi
million dollar career ahead of you
and you're just.
To walk away would be tough at
that time.
Totally agree.
But you know, there's, there's
the other.
I mean, there's pretty rich.
I think about this of like, if
I lose my license or if I get sick
or something, you know, lose
my medical.
I mean, well, like our company
is fantastic for the walking wounded.
And, and, and I realize that
there's a lot of other good careers
in the airline world that
don't involve flying, that you're
around aviation.
So that's something I really
never thought of.
Absolutely a lot of options
out there.
But yeah, it's, you know,
flying the plane is what we want
to do.
Flying the plane is what we
like to do.
And you have mentioned that
that's something that you love to
do.
It's one of the reasons why
you got involved into kind of backcountry
flying.
The freedom you probably get
doing that is probably unparalleled
to what you've done.
Anything else, because
airlines, you're following sops.
I'm not saying you're not
following kind of your own SOPS that
you've made, but being able to
fly where you want, when you want,
land on something that maybe
hasn't been landed on before, you
overfly it, inspect it, land,
and just having that freedom, I'm
sure is kind of just kind of
changed your way you look at aviation.
Yeah.
Because believe it or not,
flying the 15, there's a lot more
freedom than flying an airliner.
121 is just, you know, it's,
you know, my airline, we used to
be able to fly certain routes
VFR up in the state of Alaska.
And you know, this is why we
can't have nice things.
Some people kind of abused it
and so even that was taken away.
So this absolutely is just
like you're saying, it's so free.
And it helps me also just
share the beautiful perspective of
out here on the west coast,
flying through the mountains, landing
on strips, going fly fishing
and you know, shout out to, to Trent
Palmer, who really kind of got
so many people into this, including
me.
Like I'm absolutely a.
I don't know, a Trent like effect.
Right.
Especially during COVID
because he'd be putting out these
gorgeous videos and we'd be
kind of on lockdown and, and anyway,
so.
So he's just kind of the
Godfather, even though he's like
12 years younger than I am and
become a friend, but he's like, he's
like the godfather of
backcountry aviation in the.
In the respect of cinematography.
Right?
Yeah.
There's plenty of people who
have a lot more experience and.
And.
And he tells a great stories
in the back country.
Yeah, that's.
And that's kind of what's
inspired me.
And.
And it's kind of awkward now
because we both like pointing cameras
at.
At each other going, oh, we're
gonna make the same video, or.
But I mean, he's just, what,
like, 20 times as big as I am.
So it's all good.
He's like, that's adorable.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My video will do better than
yours, right?
Try it.
Yeah, no, he's told me he's
like, rising tide floats all boats.
So he's definitely on board with.
With supporting small guys
like me.
What's your kind of.
You mentioned Trent Palmer,
you mentioned Covid.
Was this kind of like a covet idea?
Was this you watching YouTube
and like, Ah, that sounds fun.
You can build your own
airplane, or was this kind of more
of a deeper kind of wish?
Since you saw the lance there,
since you saw someone building an
airplane, you always had this
in the back of your mind.
Yeah, no, it definitely was
always in the back of my mind.
It just provided the
opportunity because I knew that once
I.
My retirement paperwork was in.
Excuse me.
And I knew that I'd be going
back to the airline, and I also scored
a COVID leave from the airline.
So I was not only retiring
from the Air Force, going to be collecting
some money from the Air Force.
I was getting like a small
paycheck also from Alaska Airlines
and not working.
So I'm like, oh, this is perfect.
And it's supposedly going to
be two years long.
We didn't know.
It ended up only being a few
months, but that was the impetus
I needed to do this lifelong dream.
Just.
Just which was which airplane?
Which was the biggest decision
now and how quickly could I get it
to take advantage of that period?
The lead times are like two years.
So it's like, yeah, you could
decide you want to build something
and then, oh, I'll.
I'll actually start building
it in two years.
That was a bit of a change in
two years too.
Yeah.
Oh, 100%.
And that's actually what
helped me is I think somebody wasn't
ready for their kit or was
getting out of the kit world.
I can't remember.
And so they offered me their Kit.
So I got into it a lot earlier
then I didn't have to wait the full
two years.
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So is that a kind of deciding
factor in what airplane you built
or did you make the decision
of what airplane you wanted before
that opportunity came up?
I made that decision before
that opportunity came up.
And you know one of my better
performing videos was comparing the,
the RANS S21 and the kit Fox.
Okay.
And a couple people out there
going oh, he's that guy and you.
That's me.
I just have, I'm looking it up
right now.
Just remind myself, so it's,
it's a.
New, it's definitely not a Cub.
It's a new kind of higher
perform well higher speed envelope,
larger speed envelope, high
wing tail dragger.
You can get in in a trike but
it looks ugly so it's all metal and
it's just a newer design.
Right.
So a little bit more
engineering put into it which means
less weight and more fairings.
And so this thing will do 150
miles an hour.
And, and also I call it light
stole because it's not full curb
landing at 20 miles an hour.
I'm, I just, Trent helped me
put on VGs last week and I'm, I'm
messing with that this week is
getting, going out there and messing
with the angle of the
incidence of my horizontal stabilizer
because I'm running out of
elevator and trying to get the, the
stall speed down.
I got it down down to about 36
miles an hour which is pretty dang
good.
Yeah.
And I got 29 inch bush wheels
so I'm, I'm, I'm playing with, with
the bigger boys.
But I'm also a big part of my
flying mentality as well as in my
videos is, is the crawl, walk,
run mental mentality or training
process through learning
backcountry Aviation, having, you
know, all the experience I
have, you could.
You could easily kind of over
do it and have a little bit too much
overconfidence.
And I have a huge amount of
respect for these aviators and for
the weather and for the
terrain that I go, no, no, we need
to take this slow.
And so I'm kind of doing a
bunch of testing of certain things
and working on my skills, part tr.
Part test training style
before I put it all together.
But I've also already seen
some pretty amazing things that have
challenged me and have gotten
me a little bit out ahead of my skis.
But luckily, all good outcomes
so far.
So what's.
What's one.
Back it off for a little bit.
What's one scenario that has
tested you and kind of pushed you
to maybe where you didn't feel
as comfortable as.
You should in the backcountry?
I'd say.
So I was down the Oahees,
which is in southeastern Oregon,
and a little bit in Idaho,
which is beautiful, but it's more
rollers, rolling hills.
They're not the serious jagged
or steep mountains of the Cascades
or the Sawtooth or the Alaska
Range or whatnot.
They're just more roller.
So they're a little bit more
tempting and I think insidiously
dangerous in that, you know,
the guys I was flying with wanted
to land just on the top of a
random hill, and he'd landed there
before, so you knew there
weren't any big rocks, but there
wasn't a lot of room at the
top of this hill, and there's already
two Cubs parked at the top of
the hill.
So I, My, my, my window was
closing a little bit, and I.
And it's hard to tell the
grade of a landing spot until you're
like, right on it.
So you want to descend if
you're shopping the strip a little
bit.
So I flew over it, saw them
land, so I think I could probably
do it.
And there was a go around
option, so I.
I had that in forefront of my
mind, and my approach was looking
good, so I definitely landed.
But as I was right about to
touch down, I had to.
I had to go full throttle.
Not, not to go around, but to
actually arrest my sink rate.
Pull the nose up 20 degrees,
and it was still pretty hard landing.
It wasn't super hard, but.
And then.
And I.
I stopped in like 60ft and bloop.
I'm at the top of this hill
with the two cups.
I'm like, my heart was just pounding.
I'm like, I shouldn't have
done that, but I'm glad I did.
And there was a good outcome.
You know, you always got it's
mitigated risk.
Right.
You know, you're taking this risk.
I wasn't with anybody.
Nobody else was with me in my airplane.
I had a helmet on, doing those things.
Right.
But, but you know, you gotta
push yourself a little bit.
And, and so I don't really
regret that.
But that's one thing.
To answer your question, that got.
Got my heart bumping quite a bit.
When you landed, were you able
to keep your cool or were you kind
of like, oh, boys, wow.
I was able.
I mean, shoot, I've, I've,
I've, you know, flown fighters for
20 years.
I think I can keep my cool in
tough situations.
But I definitely, I felt the
adrenaline rush.
It was, it was exhilarating.
And the best part of that was
the takeoff because you're just taking
off the other side.
Yeah.
And just, you know, not a.
It wasn't a cliff, but it was
off a steep hill.
And it's just.
That's so much fun.
What do you say?
One thing I've noticed, and I
tell this to other people, it's like,
you know, especially in your
training, I always tell people, kind
of what we talked about
earlier is try to enjoy it because
the chances of you flying GA
again is very slim.
You know, we look at the
people we fly with.
Maybe it's different in Alaska
or I'll cut that out.
Maybe it's different at the
airline you fly at.
But when not everyone flies GI
GA ever again, some people think
it's unsafe.
Some people think it's too
much money.
Some people just think that,
you know, I don't do that anymore.
I fly 121.
I fly private jets, whatever
it may be.
I fly in the flight levels.
I fly ifr.
What do you say to kind of the skeptic?
That's the airline pilots
like, oh, it's not safe.
I can't do that.
What do you say to them when
you, when you start telling your
cool stories?
Well, first off, I start with
a anecdote as far as I had to ditch
my first bonanza in the
Columbia River.
So I've been there.
I've lost an engine and had to
swim away from it.
Broke my hand in the process.
My wife and I were sore as
hell, but we swam away from that
incident.
And all your training of all
your years and, you know, 135 and
then 121 or however you get
there, you're given this thing called
airmanship, or you're
developing this thing called airmanship,
and it's going to kick in.
And.
Yeah, I mean, not every
situation is going to be safe, but
that situation in particular
made me such a better pilot.
I didn't know if I was going
to fly GA again after that incident.
For a few days of pure
adrenaline and, you know, nursing
a.
Some sore muscles and broken
bone, I'm like, you know what?
I.
I can.
I can.
I can do better.
Right.
It was a problematic fuel
system, and it ended up being my
fault.
So that actually made it way
easier to get back into an airplane.
Right.
If.
If we didn't know, dude, I
wouldn't want to fly those death
traps, but it was my fault.
Like, these things, the, you
know, the safety record of, like,
a continental engine well
maintained and, you know, it's annual
inspected.
I have full confidence in
these things.
And yeah, there may be
something that happens, but my wife
actually said she's more
comfortable flying in my bush plane
I built myself than in the Bonanza.
Not because we crashed,
because I replaced the Bonanza with
a slightly newer model with the.
Not the problematic fuel
system, but she.
But it's because she can see
me land at 35, 40 miles an hour,
which you can put down damn
near anywhere.
And there are times, of
course, in our terrain that we're
flying over unforgiving territory.
And you.
You got to take that risk.
And you do kind of an ops
check, as we call it in the Air Force.
You just scan your instruments
and look at your gas and make sure,
okay, this is a high risk area.
What are my outs?
Okay, there's not many outs
right now, so I'm just gonna get
as slow as I can and put it
softly in the tops of the trees or.
But those are fairly rare
because usually you're flying around
rivers and lakes and.
And so.
So those offer opportunities,
and some people just don't have the
stomach for it.
And that's okay.
I'd say I'm better at.
Not better.
I'm willing to take a little
bit more risk than the next guy.
And I don't look down at
anybody for not being willing to
take that risk.
That's what feeds me not
exactly being at risk, but mitigating
that risk and successfully
navigating the challenges of it.
And then having a whiskey that
night and talking about it with the.
With the boys at the fire, I
mean, that's just like.
That's what feeds my soul.
All right, so you got to tell
what happened with Obviously you
said problematic fuel system,
but you said it was your fault.
Was it.
Yeah.
Problematic in the way it was designed.
Or what was it?
Yeah, so it's.
It was.
So it was a J35V tail bonanza.
So 1958, I recall.
And the ox fuel tank was a
straight and level fuel tank only.
Okay, so we're going up the.
I just gotten back from a
deployment near the end of my Air
Force career, and it was a
beautiful day out on the.
In the Columbia Gorge.
Took off at a troutdale east of.
East of Portland.
And because I was supposed to
go get my kiddos across the Cascades
the next day.
So I want to do a confidence
flight in it ironically.
So put some gas in it.
So I knew I had plenty of gas.
We just go up to Columbia, few
miles, turn around at the Dalles
and head back west towards.
I'm passing this little
airport called Cascade Locks to my
left.
It's beautiful airport right
on the Columbia River.
Beautiful day.
In fact, gosh, next week it'll
be five years.
So it was May 17th of 2020.
And I do.
I'm like, hey, let's just do a
low approach into this, into this
airfield.
I consider it a VFR alternate,
but I've never seen it.
And so nobody in the pattern.
So we just kind of keep going,
same way, same day, downriver and
do a low approach.
Making my radio calls, and I
see a guy walking around on the Runway,
and he kind of looks up at me
and kind of realizes, oh, he's in
the wrong space and kind of runs.
But I'm like, that's kind of weird.
I'm not gonna, like, do a low.
I'm not gonna land.
I'm not gonna put my landing
gear down.
Trying to telegraph that, hey,
dude, I'm not gonna land on you,
but I'm also gonna see what
the hell you're doing.
So I kind of slow down, put
some flaps down.
Yeah.
Landing gears up.
And he's kind of like, hiding
his face from me.
He's got a camera.
I think he's just like a plane
watcher or whatnot.
Not supposed to be on the
Runway, but anyway, it's kind of
distracting.
I.
I don't do my full gumps check.
I don't put it on the.
The fullest tank.
Yeah.
Because I'm not gonna land
right, so.
And I'm distracted by this guy
and making excuse.
I'm not trying to make excuses.
This is just what's going
through my brain.
And so I push up the throttle
to Go around.
Meanwhile, I'm feet and 80
knots, right?
The bonanza glides okay at 105 knots.
So a lot faster than what I'm doing.
So essentially not a lot of
time to react.
So I push up the throttle and essentially.
No kick in the pants.
No.
It pitches up initially, and
then it.
And then the acceleration
stops, and I'm like, okay, so I reach
down, I switch fuel tanks immediately.
But I don't have time.
I'm looking out in front of me
and I see sailboat masts, a big rock
jetty off the left was like a
ton more rocks and like railroads
and bad thing out to the right.
Beautiful glassy water, no boats.
I'm like, easy.
So I'm starting to stall already.
And so I'm cleaning off the wing.
Put bunt a little bit or push
forward on the yoke a little bit.
I only have enough energy to
turn just about 15 degrees, right,
and Ms.
The jetty.
And.
And it's time to flare like in.
And it happened quicker than
that, right?
About probably six to eight seconds.
Had I had more time to
troubleshoot or do it, if I had hit
that boost pump now that I'd
switched to a main tank, or even
probably now that I'm not, you
know, pitching up, I probably would
have recovered.
So that's like that.
I lose sleep over that overnight.
But I can't really be too hard
on myself because I had a handful
of airplane and about six
seconds to make a life or death decision
and put it down in the water
and make a survivable landing.
So that is what I try to focus
on in that I didn't try to turn back
to the airport and stall, spin
it in.
Plenty of friends that have
done that and not live to tell the
story.
So I picked a crash site and I
flew there.
And I think about this is you
want to extend your deceleration
over the longest period of
time in a crash scenario, right?
It's the.
It's the rapid deceleration or
rapid to zero things that'll kill
you.
But if you can go to zero in
three seconds, that will probably
save your life.
And so you want to flare as
much as you can.
There wasn't much of a flare
because I was pretty much out of
energy by the time I was able
to turn the airplane around.
But I didn't.
Not around 15 degrees to the
right, but I didn't.
But I got the wings as level
as I could.
The right wing hit a little
bit first, and then, you know, my.
The yoke Was buried in my belly.
And then that, with that rapid
deceleration, the yoke slams forward,
hits the stop, and my hand was
on it.
And then it decelerates with
the yoke and crack the bone right
there.
It's very common, like, you
know, driving injury when there's
an accident of steering wheel
breaking bones.
So that was the only
structural damage to myself.
My wife reaches over and tries
to open the door because we didn't
have time to crack the door.
As they say, you're supposed
to prep the door in a forced landing.
We didn't have time, but she
always kind of struggles with that
bonanza door.
I didn't know the sound was broken.
I just reached over and it
popped right open.
Thank goodness, because it was
filling up with water really quickly.
And I look for my phone, can't
find it.
I'm like, well, we got to get out.
We stand on the wing.
There's a fisherman on the
edge of the jetty who just caught
a big old steelhead.
And he's, like, looking at me.
He goes, whoa.
And I'm like, hey, nice fish.
Like, I hadn't quite, you
know, my brain hadn't quite caught
up with what had just happened.
I think the PTSD was
definitely coming and the adrenaline
was still kicking in.
But he's like, dude, that was crazy.
Do you need me to throw you a line?
And I'm like, I don't think
that's gonna help much, man.
We're going out pretty quick.
This is a, you know, 3,000
pound airplane.
So, yeah, I'm like, babe, time
to start swimming.
Because that point we're
standing on the wing and water's
up to our thighs, and we hop
in and we start approaching that
jetty, and that was like our lifeline.
We were, you know, had we not
got out of the jetty, it would have
been a much longer swim.
And, you know, with my
background, I was having really no
problem swimming.
And again, I still know my
hand is broken, but I'm like.
I'm like, babe, pick up the pace.
We're gonna have to swim
faster to hit that jetty.
And she did, and she did a
great job, but banged up our knees
pretty good on the rocks
underneath on the jetty.
But there's some good
samaritans that met us with towels.
And I look down and my hands
all swollen.
I'm like, oh, that doesn't
look good.
So dang, man.
But anyway, yeah, lots of.
Lots of good lessons learned.
I haven't even debriefed that
one on My on my channel yet.
So that's kind of.
You get the the exclusive on.
On what happened with with
Steven has been bonanza, but I should
probably attack that one.
What does what's the wife say
after that?
Like, what does she say?
When you get off the jetty,
you guys make eye contact for the
first time.
She like, what you want to know?
The first thing she said.
She's.
She goes, that wasn't that bad.
Like, you are a badass.
She's like, I'd do that again.
I'm like, shut up.
She's like, no, I wouldn't do
it again.
But like, that wasn't that bad.
Like, she is so rad and I'm
lucky to have her.
Lucky that she flies with me again.
It took.
I did a video on like me
flying her again in my new Bonanza.
And it was like a really bumpy
day and it was just bad decision
because she was a little bit
anxious, a little bit nervous.
But now she's pretty good.
I mean she's not zero anxiety
or zero nerves, but.
But she's just a badass.
So yeah, I'm thankful for.
What did it take for you?
You mentioned that you knew
that it was something that you could
have done different.
You kind of understood what
you did wrong in the scenario.
But was there any kind of
hesitation at all on your end?
You know, the first time you
had to do a go around, the first
time you had to kind of add
power again really quickly.
Was there any kind of like,
oh, oh crap or was there any kind
like pucker factor essentially?
Or did it kind of smooth
sailing getting back into ga?
Surprisingly very smooth
sailing back in the ga.
And.
And so after.
After I was a test pilot, I
went to the guard and became a safety.
Well, actually it was active duty.
I went through safety school
in the Air Force and became an investigator.
And so they as well as being
an instructor pilot, they really
tell you how to peel an onion
back and get to the root cause of
something because a young
instructor CFI will like correct
an error, but they wouldn't
get to the root cause of figure out
was it a perception, a
decision or execution or maybe a
game plan error and get to the
root cause and really help you fix
to really help you prevent it
from doing it in the future.
So I was able to really peel
that onion back with the help of
the faa.
It was a guy named Jason with
the FAA who.
Who kind of discovered what
really went wrong because I didn't
want to think about it for
about a month.
Three weeks later he calls me,
he's like, hey, you had a J35 or
a J35 bonanza, right?
With that ox fuel tank?
I'm like, immediately I knew
what he was asking.
I'm like, yep, I think that's
what happened.
And so and so.
But that does that, that's
what happened.
But that doesn't answer the why.
Why didn't I know not to do a
low approach on that tank?
Right.
I was deployed and I, it was,
I misprioritized.
If I was going to go fly, I
needed to get back in the books.
I need to review my emergency
procedures, my systems knowledge.
So.
But why?
That still doesn't answer why.
Too busy just, just not
prioritizing the importance of being
a knowledgeable, credible pilot.
I didn't emphasize that I had
the time, I just didn't.
And so that kind of appealed
the onion back.
And it was obviously most
things are human factors, so it was
a human factor of just
misprioritization of tasks and general
knowledge, studying my general
knowledge, studying the book.
So that made me a lot more
confident getting back into GA because
now I'm again more competent
and have really taken that lesson
and go through my, my bonanza
poh pretty frequently and we'll practice
on my own some, some of the
maneuvers and whatnot, which I didn't
really ever, ever do before that.
Right.
What, what was building your
plane like?
You mentioned that your wife's
like, I trust you building your own
airplane.
But me personally, if I built
my own airplane, I'd be like, ah,
dude.
It was so rewarding for a while.
I ended up flying that.
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, but
then again, I don't know, but if
you ever had that passion or
that experience with a neighbor,
that kind of introducing you
in aviation, like that's how it came
to be for me.
And so this was just like 8
year old Steve just being so giddy
and I was such a nerd about
this that I learned how to wire avionics
and I designed my whole
interconnect system.
I read the Garmin G3X
installation manual cover to cover
like 800 pages plus and nerded
out on that too.
And it slowed down the, the
build process.
And because I'm I guess, kind
of cheap, I could save $10,000 by
building my own wiring harness.
And dude, it worked.
I couldn't believe it.
That was, that honestly was
probably the most rewarding thing
is powering up the avionics
that I like wired for the first time.
So it's for sure it's not for everybody.
I like fly fishing, which is
to say I like focused but seemingly
boring stuff to everybody else.
But the other fly fishers will
know what I mean.
It's just like your focus.
It takes your mind off of
everything else in the world and
you're just focused on this
one thing and there's a 0 or a 1
at the end of it.
A win or a loss.
You either catch that fish or
you don't.
The avionics power up or they don't.
And they work or they don't.
So that's just the way I work.
And as far as getting in it
and flying was a little bit nerve
wracking.
But I did everything by the.
Yeah.
First time.
But I did everything by the book.
Yeah.
And torqued everything.
Right.
So I thought.
And had people check on it.
Multiple people check on.
On me doing kind of interim inspections.
Just friends of mine.
And.
And then the FAA's inspection
pass pretty much flying colors.
And so yeah.
Yeah.
I have a ton of confidence in
the airplane.
It's.
It's good design.
Credit to.
To Randy Schlitter, the
Designer of the RANS S21 free plug
for him.
What's the same?
A year later I reach out to
him like, hey dude, guess what?
I'm building a Rans too.
Or I'm building whatever it is.
Give me kind of three tips
that you would give to someone that's
very new.
Kind of like what you wish
that you would have known the very
first time you bought a kit.
Good question.
I.
I would say in my case, I
wasn't really.
I wanted a backcountry bush
plane and this isn't a backcountry
bush plane.
I'm kind of like turning it
into one.
And you know, I'd say ask more
people their opinions on the type
of aircraft.
In my defense, this is pretty
much a brand new kid at the time.
And.
But I didn't know backcountry aviation.
I really didn't know anybody
in it.
I was just a viewer on YouTube.
And so I wish I would have
reached out to a couple people to
kind of get their opinions and
they probably would have steered
me away from this airplane.
I have no regrets building
this airplane, but it's not the most
capable.
Right.
It's light stole and I like, I
like how it goes fast.
It's, it's, you know, I can
push ahead of all my buddies and
their cubs and go, you know,
set up camp before they do see you
dudes or Catch up to them if
I'm lagging behind.
Because we're going to fly to
Anchorage in all of our backcountry
planes this June.
Cool.
With a bunch of Cubs, like
nine aircraft.
So I can kind of push ahead.
Or if I want to sleep in one
morning, you know, CFLs, I'll catch
up with you and be caught up
with them in no time.
So.
But I guess to answer your question.
Yeah.
Just, just familiarize
yourself with the, the, the forums
of that community.
I mean if you're a Vans guy,
there's pretty rich RV forums.
The rans s21 forum is kind of
on Facebook, so.
But those aren't going to get
you what I'm talking about.
Those are going to get you
even more hook, line and sinker into
that aircraft.
It's people in the community
that fly other airplanes.
What is their opinion of your
chosen kit?
But then again, you pull 10
pilots and you're going to get 20
opinions.
So be careful with that.
And then just go for it and
just own it.
Which I've done.
Done.
Cool.
Hopefully it answers the question.
No, it does.
It's probably something I'll
never do, but I want to get back
into ga.
I want to buy airplanes.
You know, it's just kind of
like eventually like buying the airplane,
the initial cost, you know,
you just look at it, you're like,
that is a ton of money.
It's like, why are 182s going
for $180,000?
Like in my brain I just cannot
think about why that makes a good
financial decision.
But that's why you got to
build one.
You're right.
But I can't build a 182.
I don't want.
I live in this.
I live in North Carolina and
they like the Piedmont area.
Not even in the mountains area.
So it's like if I got a.
It doesn't make sense for me
to have a bush plane.
Or like you have young kids.
Huh?
You have young kids.
I have a three year old.
Three year old boy.
Yeah.
It's not really the season for
you for that.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, if you've got at
least an interest right now, it'll
probably creep back up and
then have better.
Thing is just have buddies
with airplanes.
Right.
I know.
I need more friends in North
Carolina that have airplanes.
Come on guys, where you at?
Or girls, whatever.
I'm open to whatever.
Just give me the plane.
Yeah.
You always hear about these
people that have like opportunities
like these bonanzas or the serious.
It's like where's my opportunity?
Joking.
Don't really think that way.
But I want to wrap it up here soon.
We didn't really talk too much
about your kind of transition from
military to civilian flying,
but I want to ask, you've done really
fulfilling flying, right?
Military's fulfilling.
You know, I'm sure backcountry
flying is fulfilling to you as well.
What are your thoughts on 121?
Like, would you just be happy
being a major airline pilot?
Would that truly bring, like a
fulfilling nature to you?
Or do you think you would
always be searching for something
else to do?
Well, I'll answer it like this.
I think it could make me happy
if I decide if I decided like that
I just, for whatever reason, I
couldn't fly GA or whatnot because
there's so much opportunity
within the 121 world.
And here's what I mean.
We go to Tahiti, we go to
Tokyo with my whole family.
Like, we love the travel.
And that's the part that I
would really dive into more, right?
And if I needed more
professionally, I would continue
on with the instructor thing.
I got hired as a.
Early on as a FO instructor
pilot for my airline.
Right, Right.
When the international Guard
called up and said, hey, come back,
we got orders for you.
So I had to.
Had to put that aside.
But if I had extra time in
this world, which I don't, I would
absolutely enjoy going back to
the instructor thing in the 121 world.
So, yeah, no, I could
absolutely be happy in just the 121
world.
But there's so much in the GA
and experimental world and the YouTube
world that I made such good
friends in that world that it'd be
hard to walk away from it voluntarily.
But if I had to, for whatever
strange reason, like if I lost my
medical and I could only maybe
just be a sim instructor, I could
be happy with that.
As long as they don't take
away my non rev privileges, I'm all
right.
I know, right?
I want to go to Tahiti.
All right.
Yeah, I hear that, dude.
Well, it's been a lot of fun
chatting with you.
You know, it's really cool to
kind of just share different experiences,
hear people why, why they do
this, why they do that, how they
got in aviation?
And what's really cool to
think about is like that neighbor
that.
Does that neighbor have any
idea what he influenced by just having
an airplane build in his garage?
You know?
Like, does he know that, like,
now you built your own airplane,
you're flying for A major airline.
You flew in the Air Force all
because you witnessed him building
his plane.
I mean, there might be.
Burt Rutan obviously is in
there as well.
But does that neighbor, that
someone that's so close that probably
has no idea what he did just
by having that build and having you
have the ability to ask questions?
Yeah, I mean, he, he.
I'll answer it like this.
He, he.
I don't know if that was a
question, but he does know that I
flew fighters in the Air Force.
I don't know if, you know, I
moved to Bend, Oregon, which is where
Lance Air moved to.
Oh, by the way.
And that's a whole nother
story, which I won't get into.
But.
But I don't think he knew I
built an airplane, which I'd love
to follow up with him.
But the way I'll turn that
around is think about yourself as
that old person mentoring the kids.
And I take extreme pride in
the fact that I'm mentoring three
young pilots.
One's not young.
He's actually older than myself.
And he's just started the
journey onto.
Into the airline world.
He's like, yeah, like, what
did I say, 51.
Almost 51.
But I'm mentoring him and then
two very young folks.
So take that opportunity if
you can, to kind of pay it forward.
Because I am so appreciative
of the folks that have inspired me,
especially Ray across the
street as a Ray modern, if anybody
knows, shout out Ray man.
He was on the COVID of Kit
Plains magazine with his beautiful
Lance Air.
So last question I'll ask is
you mentioned you mentor some people.
Just mentorship in general,
how important it is.
But.
But what would you say are
kind of like three truths or just
like three things that you
think every pilot needs to be successful,
Whether you're ga pilot,
whether you're an airline pilot.
Just kind of three common
facts that are ways to fly airplanes
that will keep you safe and
keep you happy.
Humble, approachable, credible.
That was way easier than I
thought that was going to be.
You didn't even like, stand
like you were just like, all right,
this is over.
See you later, man.
Thank you.
That's like the Air Force
Force weapon school, like that expanded
to most fighter pilots to try to.
Because there's an opinion
that we're a bit cocky and not very
approachable.
But.
So we're trying to change that.
But yeah, humility, being
approachable and backing it up with
being credible.
I love it.
I think it's great, great
words to live by great things for
anyone to listen.
If someone's watching this
first time they ever heard of you,
drop your socials, let them
know what your channel is all about
and give them a little hint or
a little reason to follow you.
Yeah, thanks, Justin.
So my main thing is the
YouTube thing.
So YouTube.com cleared direct.
It's all one word together.
Cleared direct.
So two Ds in the middle and
then on Instagram that be secondary
for me.
Instagram.com cleared_direct._youtube.
So I'm sure you'll have links
in the.
In the show description there,
but thanks for letting me drop those.
Yeah, YouTube's my goal is to
kind of double my subscribers this
year.
So give me a subscribe if you.
If you can.
Love it.
I'll do it right now as soon
as I get off because I don't know
if I subscribe.
I don't watch another country
YouTube very much.
I'm sorry, you're just gonna
have FOMO.
You're just gonna have FOMO.
That's fine.
I can deal with FOMO.
Maybe I won't follow you.
No, I'm just kidding.
Steve, man, it's been great
talking to you.
It's been a lot of fun.
I appreciate you just waking up.
Right.
West coast, east coast, you know?
I know, man.
On the East.
East coast is way different
than 9am on the west Coast.
So I appreciate you.
Especially when I text you at
11:30 Eastern, I'm like, hey, dude,
you want to do it now?
Let's go.
But yeah, adversity, man.
You just kind of wake up and
go, I appreciate it.
Cool.
Appreciate it, Justin.
Yeah, thanks a lot for the opportunity.
Yeah, anytime.
Yeah.
Keep touch.
See you.
And that's a wrap on episode 333.
Just a saying.
333 is just insane.
Shout out to my wife for
making me do this eight years ago,
which makes me feel really old
now, But I never thought I'd be at
333 episodes.
If you're thinking about
starting a podcast, you're thinking
about being a content creator.
Nick, the editor.
This goes to you too, if
you're thinking about it.
You told me about those microphones.
Go after it, man.
Let's see it.
I want to be your editor.
You're probably like,
absolutely not, but I hope you enjoy
these.
I hope that you are creating content.
If that's something you want
to do.
Start the podcast, start the
YouTube channel.
Bad financial advice for me.
Probably talk to your airline
advisor with Allworth airline.
But buy the airplane.
Go have fun.
Maybe I should listen to
myself and go buy the airplane.
AV Nation.
I hope you're having a great
day and as always, happy flying.
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