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Greg explores his various purposes in pursuing his venture to apply brain-computer interface technology to early detection of Alzheimer's. Commitment to his purposes helps him do hard things.
Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!
Welcome back to another episode of Essential Dynamics. I'm your essential host, Reed McColm, and here with my dynamic cohort in philosophy and perspective, mister Derek Hudson.
Reed:Derek, how are you today?
Dere:Reed, I'm fantastic, and I'm great I'm great grateful that I'm the dynamic part of the dynamic duo today.
Reed:You certainly are. You certainly are. But we have we have a triple. We have a guest villain on the episode today, and it's somebody we've met before in one of our most popular podcasts because we do know that somebody listened. And that would be mister Gregory Magillis.
Reed:Hello, Greg, and welcome back to Essential Dynamics. This must be a great honor for you.
Greg:Well, hi, Reed. Hi, Derek. It is a great honor. I've been looking forward to this for years and years. Oh, maybe maybe weeks.
Dere:Well, Derek It's weeks and weeks.
Reed:Derek, remind us who mister McGillis is and put us in a perspective where we can talk about his his accomplishments in business because that's where I wanna get to as soon as we can.
Dere:So we had Greg on last time, and Greg talked about his his quest, his journey that actually started in university, which I, you know, which I didn't know, to look at ways of using technology to assist people. And one of the things that he's kind of on the head on the back burner a long time is using brain computer interfaces as technology to help people. And so what he's working on now, I understand it, and Greg will correct me, is using brain computer interface technology to detect Alzheimer's, particularly early Alzheimer's in in people so that they can get care early and then improve the quality of their lives and their families. Greg, did I get that pretty close?
Greg:Yep. You you got it right on. It's it'll it'll help detect it in the in the more hard to hard to detect stages.
Dere:So, you know, we talked a lot last time about Greg's, you know, experience as an engineer and the some of the things that he found interesting along the way that got him to this point. What I was hoping to to to do today is use the framework of Essential Dynamics to talk about his business venture and to maybe do a little bit of live on air coaching using the Essential Dynamics Framework to see if Greg's thought of everything and to see if he's focusing on the essential stuff. So Greg's putting it out there for us. This is, you know, this is a bit of a vulnerable position to be in, And we're all learning about how we do this, but I'm excited to have Greg. And so the the format today, I think, is that I'll ask Greg questions, get him thinking.
Dere:We're not necessarily gonna evaluate or judge his his stuff as I will. You will. You will. Okay. Yeah.
Reed:Oh, yeah. Thanks.
Dere:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And and you can also evaluate the quality of my questions too, Reid. Absolutely.
Dere:There we are. Yeah. So so, Greg, if we think about the essential dynamics, you know, we talk about it with the idea of a quest. And we talked a little bit about your personal quest. But if we're talking about your business venture, the quest is really there's a purpose.
Dere:There's something that you're trying to accomplish that's hard, you know, that's gonna help people. Tell us a little bit about you know, remind us why are you doing this, or what's the purpose of this venture in terms of how it's really gonna make a difference?
Greg:Well, the the fundamental purpose is to enable people to have better control of their cognitive health, help them identify if they have the the negative consequence of dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. So they can they can do something about it earlier than later. And if they work on it earlier, then they will be able to intervene too. Many of them can intervene.
Dere:So, Greg, have you put together an actual, like, mission statement or purpose statement along those lines with, like, formal words that you've refined?
Greg:Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Well, I have it as a, I guess you call it, a unique value proposition. Yes.
Greg:I do. I don't have it in front of me. But
Dere:And and have we talked about all the elements in it, or are there some other things that that we should look at in terms of understanding the purpose of of what you're trying to do?
Greg:Well, I think we've we've generally talked about all the elements. Yeah.
Dere:So let me then introduce this. This is the first intervention. This is the first insight that Essential Dynamics presents, I think, when we talk about any kind of problem is that I believe that there's always at least two purposes that are somewhat incompatible on the face of it. So I like to talk about purpose x and purpose y. I think that one of the things that we find tricky in organizations in particular is, you know, maybe we don't even understand what the purpose is, but if we if we agree on a purpose, generally, there's another purpose.
Dere:And it might be our purpose is to serve the customer and our other purpose is to make money. If, you know, I there's lots of lots of different conflicts that we have that are natural conflicts where it's the the answer isn't easy and it's not a priority. It's just it's a question of balancing, synergizing, finding the the complementary aspects of things. So if we put you on the spot then and say if purpose x is to help people manage their cognitive health and specifically detect Alzheimer's early. What's what might purpose y be?
Dere:And you might not know, but we can talk about kind of what what things might might also be a purpose. And and to help you out, I'm gonna frame this in the context of your business venture.
Greg:Oh, okay. Now it's a question. Alright.
Reed:Very good. Very good. Yeah.
Greg:I I think actually, I if I can, I think I've got a purpose? Why why prime? Why double prime? That kind of thing. I I think I have more than more than one purpose.
Greg:The the fundamental purpose is is to create the solution, and there will be investors that will be required for this and that they need to make money. So the bottom line, know, is a bottom line. There is a bottom line. It needs to be a very profitable business. But I I think there's with the with the experience I'm gaining in coming back to school and doing all this, I'm I'm developing a, I guess, a greater ability, some background to to influence people.
Greg:I'm influencing my family. I'm, you know, hopefully making a living for my family, but I'm influencing my family. I'm influencing people that that know about this this endeavor I'm after and pursuing, and and they are you know, they're curious as I am to see how this could turn out, but I think they're finding that it's motivating and inspiring them too that at least I've got it to this to this point. And I and that's that's really something significant. Then another purpose is this will require the the amalgamation of a of a unique team, some some neuroscientists, some software engineers, some electrical engineers that that I anticipate helping them find their quest in life or at least contributing to their quest so that will help them and help their families.
Greg:So anticipate building a business that will will have an impact on the people that are part of the business, very consequential impact.
Dere:Hey. I really like that. You know, we've had some guests in the past that have talked about the need for people to join an organization that they can identify with and, you know, where their their purposes or their values align. We've heard it in different ways. So you're trying to solve a medical problem.
Dere:You're gonna need some investment and need to provide a return to your investors. And you're also talking about building a business that has an impact beyond what the paying customer's going
Reed:to get.
Dere:Because you've created an organization where people can, you know, sort of realize their potential. And then I think you're also saying that you're using this as an example. You hope to use it as an example to your family and others. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit more for a minute. What's a because this sounds like a lot of work to be a good example.
Dere:So what what kind of example are you trying to portray, and what do you hope people will get from that if they never buy your product?
Reed:Did he say good example? I'm not sure he ever mentioned good example. But
Dere:Well, we should probably we should probably clarify that too. So now you have to defend yourself, Greg.
Greg:Well, I guess to Reid's point at whether it's a good example or not, it seems to be determined how well this turns out. But the the I guess one of the things I wanna start with is when this started three years ago, the current venture, I explained it to my wife, and she had trepidation. She had concerns. She realized, oh, you're not gonna be employed for a while. Okay.
Greg:I guess there's some financial impact and and whatnot. But she has been amazingly supportive, and and my children as well. So they're curious to see what what dad's accomplishing here. And and and what it does for them is it it gives them confidence as well that that they can do hard things. In my community service, I'm involved with with youth groups, with a large youth group.
Greg:And and, again, I refer to this from time to time with them, and it it makes an impact on them. And I'm and I and I'm intent on that. And not just not just my reference to it, but but my being has changed. Like, outside, I look the same. I've lost a little bit more hair in the last three years, but but inside, I'm different.
Greg:Inside, what what has happened to me by pursuing this and having the confidence to do it and going through the hard times, I have become more courageous and more confident and more capable. And my my purpose is to pass that on, especially to the youth that I'm seeking to influence.
Dere:K. Reid, what do you think? Is that gonna be a good example?
Reed:I think that's beautiful. I really do. I really I appreciate it very much, Greg. But I wonder, part of us when we're I can see people being impressed by what you're saying. I'm trying to find an approach to Alzheimer's that will diminish its effects or or better control of mental health, which is admirable, and we all want you to succeed.
Reed:But how is that measured? You're probably dealing with with tiny and minute things that are beyond my comprehension because that's the way it's gone today. But if how do how do you measure success? How do your investors measure success? Because it's going to be a long journey to a cure.
Greg:Well, that that comes back to the primary purpose, and the primary purpose is to is to make a business that is profitable. So it'll it'll take it'll probably take five years, I would expect, before this becomes commercialized, four to five years, depending on the partnerships I can I can form and the people that are part of the team? But developing the clinical med tech diagnostic devices is not an easy undertaking. So it it needs to be a profitable business, and I and I have anticipated both the the TAM, Tom, and TAM, SOM, and SAM, the full available market, etcetera, that this will be, if it's done right, a very profitable business. So my investors in in year one or two, that's the anticipation this will this will be profitable, and they will year after release, and they will find a good return on the rest of the next period of time.
Reed:If I may, how did you find investors? What do you do? Did you go on Shark Tank and challenge them mentally?
Dere:Oh,
Greg:I don't have investors yet. I'm I'm at the beginning stage of all this. I see. You know, I the but the investors are there's a there's a very large investment community, more so in The US, but it's also in Canada, the venture capitalists and angel investors that that support med tech diagnostic device development. But I still have things to prove.
Greg:You know, I I still have to prove that that the the prototype of the minimum viable product does what it says it's gonna do, which is gonna take another year or more. So that'll you know? So I still have to, you know, self fund this and and funding from potentially friends and family at some point, funding from government grants and that kind of thing.
Dere:So if I was to distill a couple of like a purpose x and a purpose y from what you said, one of the things you said is, you know, primary purpose is to have a viable business that makes money. So if that's purpose x, then purpose purpose y is to help families with the impacts of early onset dementia. And then your purpose set, and I'm not opposed to purpose set, is to show people that you can do hard things. Is would you and I don't even think that I don't think of those things in order. That's why I use x and y, not a and b.
Dere:Would you say that's a fair sort of encapsulation of what you told us for the last few minutes, or would you edit that a bit?
Greg:No. I think it's a good summary. I mean, I I'd like to say that purpose x, if there was a if there's a first one, is to is to do the good, but you need to have a business. If you can't make it a profitable business, you will not do the good. You will not you won't do anything with dementia.
Dere:Well, and I've heard you say it kind of in both ways, like, both orders. And and I agree with your last characterization. So the purpose is to help the people. Purpose x is to help the people. And if your if your purpose y is and and allow some people to make money at it, I would always be more comfortable if that was because the people got helped
Greg:Mhmm.
Dere:And not be not because you're able to sell it to sell it to somebody else in a speculative market and the people never got helped?
Greg:I I won't pursue I won't pursue anything like that.
Reed:Yeah. If it I know.
Greg:I just won't I won't do that. You know, I'll I'll go work at Walmart. I will not do that.
Dere:So but but you can't you can't help the people, ultimately, unless you have a viable product. And so you need investors, they need to be convinced that there's a return, and there actually has to be one so that you can you can carry on your work.
Greg:Agree.
Reed:I want to ask how you know because we still haven't really defined the product for you. What is your product? Is it a pill that you're going for so that it that people take every day, or is it are you primarily marketing yourselves to medical practitioners who are way ahead in scientific research?
Greg:The the product is a headset, a neurophysiological and a neuroimaging headset that will determine and measure certain brain activity and compare that, you know, the measured brain activity against standards for, we'll call it, normal nondemented brain activity. So it's an actual product. It's a device that would that these would be, you know, distributed throughout the medical industry, and and physicians would use it in their offices.
Reed:How do you convince those offices or the people who who decide what to buy as far as equipment is concerned to use your product? How do you convince a customer to use it, especially in the skeptical age where on the Internet, if you look hard enough, you can find that a horse dewormer can cure Alzheimer's?
Greg:The fund the main thing is this is a medical device, so it it will require FDA class two clearance and Health Canada medical device license. And and with those, that licensing clearance, you you have to achieve a certain sensitivity, specificity, and reproducibility, which means the product actually has to do what it says. It cannot you can't sell a horse, or armor, or whatever product that's you can't sell that to the medical community. It it's the FDA and Health Canada just won't let it happen.
Dere:So I have to prove
Greg:all that.
Dere:So you have to you have to get past the regulatory hurdles, and then you have to get into the customer acceptance hurdles. And it's a new product in the in the sense that the problem has been there and that and the the current methods of detection are quite different from what you're proposing.
Reed:Mhmm.
Dere:So I understand from other conversations, Greg, that you're you're going to be starting to talk about people who would use your product. And what what do you think you'll learn when you start to talk to the practitioners?
Greg:Well, the the goal of doing that is to confirm
Dere:what
Greg:how the current assessment process works, their experience with the current assessment process, dementia assessment process, and and what works really well. What needs are being met? So I I need to ensure that that my solution meets those needs, continues to meet those needs. However, there will be a number of unmet needs. I need to discern those, prioritize those with their help, and then ensure that that my solution meets those unmet needs.
Dere:So and you're you're confident that you can do that, but this is the this is the journey that you're on, is to figure it out. Mhmm. I usually title these episodes after, you know, listening to them a couple of times. And so we'll see what I actually use, but I can do hard things is a is a Greg McGillis quote that might end up as the as the title. So I wanna go back to purpose.
Dere:You you talk about hard things both with your investors and with your future employees and your your family support. Are are is everyone motivated by the idea that people's lives could be better because of the work that you're doing? And is that the driver, I guess, to use our words, that you keep tapping into to keep going and doing hard fakes?
Greg:Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is a this is a quest that that many people are trying to to do, and it's, I I guess you could say, altruistic in some respects, noble in some respects. Not that I consider it that way, but but others say, wow. That's that's wonderful. And that that is a motivation for sure, but but a very strong motivation is curiosity too.
Greg:You know, when I when can I do this? Can you know, I have this this, like, say, fifty three years ago, where's it actually gonna lead? What what will be the end result? And I and I I have a a big sense of adventure, to be frank, to to, you know, bring it to pass and and make it happen. So it's all of those things are motivations, but but the internal motivation is is probably the greatest.
Dere:That's that's fantastic. So, Greg, as we wrap up, could you maybe paint a picture for me? My wife and I go to see my doctor, and he applies this device. Horio. Dewormer.
Dere:No. No. No. Neurological headset, Reed. Get back with the program.
Dere:Sorry. Sorry. Yes. Yes. And we get we get some information that says, you know, it started for me.
Dere:And we get it early. Tell me how my life is gonna be better and my family's life is gonna be better. Just sort of paint the picture of what you're trying to accomplish here, because I think that'll help our our listeners understand, you know, what this what this you know, the purpose that drives you really is.
Greg:Great question. Thank you. So this will be under the care of a doctor, physician, of course, and the physician will be interested in using this tool to supplement his own efforts or his his quest, not his quest, but his his analysis. He'll get a what's called a class two report, which will advise him of certain biomarkers that have been discovered. And from that, he will say, well, Derek, it it looks like according to this, you are on the path to I don't know exact wording, but you're on the path to dementia.
Greg:And there are things that you can do. You know, again, if you're younger, then there's things more things you can do. I think I mentioned last podcast that that current research shows about a third of the dementia impact a third of people can be a third of people who are are going down the path of Alzheimer's based dementia can be can have that mitigated by lifestyle changes. So first of all, he'll encourage you to do lifestyle changes. There are drugs out there that are helping, but I mentioned one before.
Greg:Still it's still questionable perhaps, but but there are drugs, there will be more drugs. But the big thing too is that once you know, you know, why you're behaving the way you behave and what to look out for, you can just you're you're informed. Now some people will be afraid perhaps, but that fear can be dealt with over time as you as you learn more about the disease. And then many, many people live quite well with dementia. They just they just have their their family structure, their financial structure, everything in place to help them live live well.
Greg:But if they don't know, then then they don't live so well because they just have great uncertainty. They don't know what the problem is. So this is just helping them come up with this with an answer to why am I behaving this way, and what's good what's what's likely to come.
Reed:Greg, I wanna tell you that you are an inspirational leader in my mind, and I'm very grateful for your spending time with us, especially a second time, to explain some of your your work. I I don't understand a thing, but I do have to say that you convinced me to stop using the horse dewormer, which is a good thing because I was having trouble figuring out how to apply it. So you have you have a a a great lesson to impart, and I'm very grateful for you. Thanks for sharing your time on Essential Dynamics today.
Greg:You're welcome, Reed. Thank you for having me.
Dere:Hey. And and Greg, I have to say, feel better already, and I haven't got the diagnosis yet. And I don't I don't even wanna sound glib because there is some family history there. If we beat the heart disease, then, you know, dementia's gonna it's gonna come eventually. And I just just really love the idea of, you know, when we know, then, know, we we can prepare, and we can we can take control over the things we can take control of.
Dere:And I think that is an essential element of essential dynamics as there were actors in this. And I also believe that we can do hard things. So fun. Thanks very much, Greg.
Greg:No. Thank you. It was my privilege.
Reed:Yeah. You're an inspiration. And thank you to Derek Hudson, our guru and leader, and in the studio, our engineer, Bryn Griffiths. I'm Reed McCollum, your essential and dynamic host. Until next time, consider your quests.