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The Vance Crowe Podcast is a thought-provoking and engaging show where Vance Crowe, a former Director of Millennial Engagement for Monsanto, and X-World Banker, interviews a variety of experts and thought leaders from diverse fields.
Vance prompts his guests to think about their work in novel ways, exploring how their expertise applies to regular people and sharing stories and experiences.
The podcast covers a wide range of topics, including agriculture, technology, social issues, and more. It aims to provide listeners with new perspectives and insights into the world around them.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:02
Speaker 1
Mission only comes only really comes into play during adversity, and it's because you're forced to make choices about how you're going to operate from here. For example, when somebody wins a Super Bowl, what's the first thing when they interview them? They say, nobody believed in us. We had we had injuries. We had everything's adversity all the way down, but we believed in ourselves.
00:00:25:04 - 00:00:36:18
Speaker 1
That's mission. We believed in us and made that happen. I am Caleb Dungey, a precision ag specialist living in Aurora, South Dakota, and you are listening to the Vance Crow Podcast.
00:00:36:20 - 00:00:59:05
Speaker 2
Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. Today. We're doing a legacy interview open session with a man named Phil Bender. Most of the time, a legacy interview is just for the guest and their family. But Phil agreed that he would share excerpts of his interview. And I hope you find this as special as I do. When you get to the end of this interview, you're not going to have heard all of Phil's stories.
00:00:59:05 - 00:01:27:02
Speaker 2
He had a lot more to tell, but that's not really the point of a legacy interview. What we do here is capture stories, but the benefit of what we do is that we capture people as they are, and that's something that is absolutely irreplaceable. So as you listen to this interview, I'd like you to think about loved ones that you have people that have a spark, a way about them that you love and care about, and you would love for future generations to know that person.
00:01:27:04 - 00:01:44:17
Speaker 2
So if you've been thinking about doing a legacy interview or getting one for a loved one, go to Legacy interviews.com and sign up for the wait list as the holidays are looking up. We have very few slots remaining, but if you're interested, we can get on a call and figure out what interview would be right for you or your loved one.
00:01:44:19 - 00:01:51:19
Speaker 2
All right, without further ado, let's head to the interview with Phil Bender. Where are the vendors from?
00:01:51:21 - 00:02:35:04
Speaker 1
Great question. Right out of the gate. The, my grandfather, great grandfather, lived in a Volga. They're called the Volga Germans. They lived in Russia and, based on art. And they were in textiles and did very well. From what I understand. And so my great grandfather, and my grandmother came with my grandfather, who was a year old, through, new Jersey, I believe, not through Ellis Island, but through new Jersey during the, Russian Revolution, but of German descent.
00:02:35:10 - 00:03:05:01
Speaker 1
So they had to leave my, uncle, my grandfather's great grandfather's brother was hung in the square like the week before they left or something crazy like that. So they came through that, located in, Sutton, Nebraska, because there was family there. And so they stayed there for a piece of time. Got in an argument from what my grandfather told me over a silly thing.
00:03:05:03 - 00:03:34:12
Speaker 1
Stubborn people. There'll be a theme there. And so moved. Ended up moving to my grandfather. Great grandfather. Grandfather moved to Saint Louis and lived, in various places. And, and, my great grandmother's goal was always to live on Grand Avenue, right. And, so, I don't think they ever bought a home.
00:03:34:14 - 00:03:52:14
Speaker 1
My grandfather, my great grandfather, drove streetcar and then eventually by state bus. And legend has it that he used to drink, homebrew during prohibition with Adolphus Busch at the Lemp mansion. So there's a little highlight.
00:03:52:16 - 00:03:54:14
Speaker 2
What about your mother's side?
00:03:54:16 - 00:04:19:13
Speaker 1
I can't really go back too far there. But my, my grandmother from my mom's side moved over to. Or they they lived in South Saint Louis. There was a divorce. My paternal grandfather, I have never met, I never met, I found I lived about a mile and a half from us, but I never met him.
00:04:19:15 - 00:04:48:06
Speaker 1
And, And so they separated the second part of the family. My mom then was part of, the original family. But then they had six more kids. So my mom, at as early as ten, was taking care of six kids, while my grandmother and her second husband, both, worked, in some cases, two jobs. So my mom, my dad got married.
00:04:48:06 - 00:05:10:11
Speaker 1
My mom was 16. My my dad was 20. They met at the Fox Theater, when he was 18 and she was 14. My mom was very tall, for her age. So she looked a lot older. And, my mom, so they got married 20 and 16. They've been together 64 years now.
00:05:10:13 - 00:05:15:07
Speaker 2
When they look back on that, what do they say about getting married at 16 and 20?
00:05:15:08 - 00:05:36:03
Speaker 1
Well, I always like to tease my dad now and say, you know, that's jail time now, pop. Right. And he goes, yeah, yeah, whatever. But they met at a Fox theater and my and they just talk. My dad just talks about. But you couldn't do this nowadays. But he saw her coming out of the Fox Theater. I guess he was enamored by her, followed her home.
00:05:36:05 - 00:05:50:06
Speaker 1
I guess she took a bus and he went. Followed her. And, I guess somehow they met. I, I don't really know if I know the exact conversation there. It's probably a good question to ask, but it was that kind of thing.
00:05:50:08 - 00:05:53:06
Speaker 2
And tell me about your parents. What did they do for work?
00:05:53:08 - 00:06:18:19
Speaker 1
Well, my dad went to Washu. Okay, so my grandpa, my dad's, my grandparents both worked two jobs. Okay? My grandfather worked at, for Union Electric. He painted substations. My grandmother worked at the arena. The old blues, Checker Dome. People might remember that. And, and then my grandfather worked as an usher at Sportsman's Park.
00:06:18:21 - 00:06:43:06
Speaker 1
Eventually Busch Stadium. So they had they worked quite a bit. They trying to put their only son, my dad, through school at Washington U. So we went to Baylis, Washington. You, my mom went to Roosevelt, okay. But didn't finish. My dad came out of Washu and went to work for Ford for a while. I think out once Ville or Saint Charles somewhere out that way.
00:06:43:08 - 00:06:47:20
Speaker 1
Didn't like working for anybody, which is a theme. Certainly with me.
00:06:47:22 - 00:06:50:05
Speaker 2
And, was his factory work.
00:06:50:07 - 00:07:13:01
Speaker 1
No, it was more, I don't know, I feel sales, I don't know exactly what it was now that you say that. But it wasn't very long. And then he he he. But when he was at Washu, he had a journalism degree. And so he decided to go into partnership in a small community newspaper. If you think of Webster Kirkwood Times or something of that level.
00:07:13:03 - 00:07:40:06
Speaker 1
So they did that, but it was South County. And so he ran a small business, that my mom worked at home or worked at home. She was a, homemaker. And then eventually my dad started to realize that the suburban journals were getting bigger and bigger and starting to swallow up small newspapers. So he started a printing business in the back of the, newsroom, if you will.
00:07:40:06 - 00:08:12:10
Speaker 1
Or, you know, a newspaper and eventually built that into, a print business because the newspaper started to struggle. In fact, one of the few times I saw my dad cry growing up was one time when business almost went belly up. And that was, the newspaper. But then. And then it became a printing business. And now it is, still a printing business that my family, my three brothers run down in Fenton called Bender ink.
00:08:12:12 - 00:08:17:00
Speaker 2
What do you remember about that time? I mean, seeing your father, that was.
00:08:17:02 - 00:08:38:23
Speaker 1
Oh, it was it was a challenge because, first of all, one of the one of the elements in our family was you made fun of things. You didn't get emotional. Okay, now that that did, you didn't cry as a kid or whatever, but very rarely did you see that. My mom was very tough, very tough upbringing.
00:08:39:01 - 00:09:01:20
Speaker 1
And, so it was a shock. And, my parents, you know, my dad was not, I think many parents of that era wasn't around a lot. He was always, life of the party very well thought of, very community centric on the Chamber of Commerce, on the on certain things like that. It was just a moment that I saw.
00:09:01:22 - 00:09:25:16
Speaker 1
And in fact, it really meant a lot to me because I always said, God, I never want to feel that way again. That kind of vulnerability. And so not a lot of vulnerability in the family growing up, a lot of humor, a lot of, as I say, you showed how much you loved everybody by how much shit you gave them.
00:09:25:18 - 00:09:35:17
Speaker 1
And so we didn't take things at home a lot very seriously. And, to this day, it's still, sort of a trademark.
00:09:35:19 - 00:09:40:06
Speaker 2
You mentioned that your mom didn't like to go out. Who did your parents spend time with?
00:09:40:08 - 00:10:06:03
Speaker 1
They had a core group of friends. Friends from the Jaycees that they knew. In fact, one of the great I think one of the coolest things with my parents is they're, his friends from the Jaycees when he was in his 20s. Still friends, 86, 80. My dad's 85. He's got two best buddies. They're still alive. They are thick as thieves.
00:10:06:05 - 00:10:29:20
Speaker 1
I think that's kind of a cool thing. He had a lot of acquaintances, but really, when it gets right down to it, he had two very, very good friends. And they have maintained, my mom has just kind of followed along with that. She had a very close friend who in, high school, who she stayed close to for a while, but she's always sort of been her family is her friends.
00:10:29:22 - 00:10:52:01
Speaker 1
My mom is a terrific mother in law, you know, because they had five kids. Okay. In fact, my dad, because of my three brothers, my dad will say the best move I ever, ever made was having our best business move. I remain with him. Five kids. Because those three, my three brothers have done a hell of a job of taking care of them.
00:10:52:03 - 00:11:11:08
Speaker 1
My parents make more money in retirement than they did ever while they worked, and that I have to give the, the majority of that credit to, my three brothers. They've done special things with that family business that I had no vision for. I'm the oldest of the five.
00:11:11:10 - 00:11:15:17
Speaker 2
What, what kind of house did your mom keep?
00:11:15:19 - 00:11:32:19
Speaker 1
It was lived in, let's put it that way. Okay. It was a nice neighborhood. Nice place to grow up South Saint Louis County went to Melville High School. So it was a nice place to grow up. However, it really was lived in.
00:11:32:21 - 00:11:39:02
Speaker 2
What was growing up like? Did you know that your parents were financially strapped now?
00:11:39:04 - 00:11:58:12
Speaker 1
It didn't. I never felt it crept in the home. I just felt like, you know, I, I always had a pair of husky, tough skins when I needed them. You know, I always had a ball glove if I needed it. And a bat. It never felt like we were. We never went, without food.
00:11:58:16 - 00:12:17:13
Speaker 1
Okay, so it wasn't dramatic like that, although, you know, the the kids were so big, and and it was boy oriented that my mom at times would just make gravy and put it on white bread. And we would eat that because we would run out of food. But that wasn't as much because of, struggles financially.
00:12:17:14 - 00:12:18:19
Speaker 2
It's more of a volume issue.
00:12:18:20 - 00:12:40:20
Speaker 1
That was a volume issue. But my gran, my grandparents, my gran, because my dad was an only child, my paternal grandparents were very active in our house, so they came over at every holiday we were with them. I used to spend when I was little, every, almost every other weekend over there. And so they were very active with us.
00:12:40:20 - 00:13:03:00
Speaker 1
My grandfather came to every game we had most all of them, and so and he also never made a lot of money, but he always had a lot of money. And that's because he never spent any they never went out. They. I think the only time they ever went out to eat was bowling banquets. So my grandfather was always kind of there as a backstop.
00:13:03:02 - 00:13:08:16
Speaker 1
And I think there were probably some times when he jumped in a few times.
00:13:08:18 - 00:13:11:08
Speaker 2
What kind of man was he?
00:13:11:10 - 00:13:33:10
Speaker 1
He was a functional alcoholic. Okay. Never missed a day of work. In fact, he he said I have no middle name. Was, his first name was Jacob. And his last name Bender, obviously. And I used to say, grandfather, what's your middle name? And he says, work. So he was a worker. He had some. I don't want to say demons, but he could.
00:13:33:15 - 00:13:56:06
Speaker 1
He could, he was a drinker. As to what was emotionally behind it, I don't know, I think, his brother did die in World War two. I don't know if that anything to do with it, but he, he was, he drank, you know, generally he was a tavern guy, you know, sort of a Saint Louis City guy.
00:13:56:06 - 00:13:57:16
Speaker 2
What does that mean, a tavern guy?
00:13:57:19 - 00:14:25:16
Speaker 1
Well, in other words, if you go through South Saint Louis, a really Saint Louis in general, the city, there's a tavern on every corner. So he would he, when he worked at the subs. I worked at e when I was a kid. My grandmother would pick me up because she always drove the carpool. Okay? They only had one car, so she would drive the carpool, pick him up, pick and take three of his buddies back home and drive them to their house.
00:14:25:18 - 00:14:47:05
Speaker 1
And then we would go straight to, down in the city, and we'd go to the tavern and and for the life of me, I'm trying to remember what it was on you, Lena, but I cannot think of it. Oh, it's going to, upset me, but. And my grandfather and grandmother would go to the tavern. I would sit on the corner bar stool and he would get orange juice.
00:14:47:06 - 00:15:04:09
Speaker 1
You'd always. And he would talk about all the time. He brag he was big bragger. So he would brag about how big his grandson was. Look how big my grandson was. I was pretty big when I was a kid, and he would brag, and then my grandfather would just get silly drinking, and then my grandmother would go in the back room.
00:15:04:14 - 00:15:29:07
Speaker 1
She had a pink, hue stick, and she go back and shoot, pool in the back for money. During while we would be in the tavern. I still have that cue stick at my house in Rhode Island. My my dad gave that to me for Christmas one year when my grandfather died. They cleaned out the house was a, neat, neat experience growing up with them.
00:15:29:07 - 00:15:56:00
Speaker 1
They were very doting grandparents. German. They, would eat pickled herring on New Year's Eve, and they would, we had a lot of Spaetzle and German type food for on weekends. My grandfather, if you ever seen the movie Big Fish, you've ever seen that Tim Burton movie? He was like that big, big fish stories.
00:15:56:02 - 00:16:23:19
Speaker 1
And I could, you know, time permitting, I could tell a few of them. One in particular that is probably my favorite is the original Saint Louis Billiken. That is, the mascot for Saint Louis University was, the. It came from a distant relative of mine back in the early 1900s. The Saint Louis University football team was, was very good.
00:16:23:19 - 00:16:51:04
Speaker 1
And they, and they had a, they the coach hit Baird a resemblance to this doll, which was very popular at the time, kind of a Kewpie doll kind of thing. And it was called a Billiken. Okay. It's not flattering, by the way. I don't I wouldn't say our, our, family necessarily has the, the looks of, white of a movie, family.
00:16:51:04 - 00:17:18:14
Speaker 1
But but anyway, my grandfather used to tell a story about. Well, your great great uncle was a was the original Billiken, and I used to sit there, I go, what are you talking about? It's a mascot. And it turns out that the coach, looked like the doll. The people in the newspaper, probably the Globe Democrat, or at that time, bear the likeness to the coach and used to call the team benders.
00:17:18:14 - 00:17:47:21
Speaker 1
Billikens because the coach's name was John Bender. And so he was a distant relative from Sutton, which I remember when I told you they came over, they went to Sutton. And so the, the I'm related to the Billiken. Now, my grandfather used to tell stories like that where kids just like the guy in the movie, and we would look at him like, you have no idea what you're talking about, only to find out that they're everything he told, albeit embellished, was always had an element of truth.
00:17:47:21 - 00:17:51:11
Speaker 1
There.
00:17:51:13 - 00:17:54:01
Speaker 2
Did, your parents took you to church?
00:17:54:03 - 00:18:16:14
Speaker 1
Oh, it's a great question. The answer is yes. My dad was very religious when he was younger. Fact, he likes to say it's one of the reasons he got married so early, because it being in the Baptist, church, he couldn't, quote unquote, consummate it. Right? So, he likes to say that was one of the reasons that he got married so fast.
00:18:16:15 - 00:18:41:03
Speaker 1
But we used to go to a place called assumption down in Lima. I remember going there a few times. I sang in the church when I was five years, six, 5 or 6 years old. I sang You're nobody til Somebody Loves You in the front of the whole church congregation. That's how I, I like to say that was a defining moment in me liking to perform in front of people.
00:18:41:05 - 00:19:09:06
Speaker 1
Whether it's speaking or singing, I do vocals, things like that. So yeah, we would go and then when I got to be about eight, my parents just, I think my mom got sick addressing us up and never went to church again. Really never set foot in the church until, except for a funeral, or two until my, until I met my girlfriend, now.
00:19:09:06 - 00:19:20:12
Speaker 1
Wife, and that, and so not a lot of, I think a faithful family without a lot of practice.
00:19:20:14 - 00:19:26:23
Speaker 2
You had an awareness of singing, and at five, what kind of kid were you?
00:19:27:01 - 00:19:53:19
Speaker 1
I think I probably today would have been medicated. I think I probably had a lot of A.D.D. elements. I can remember certain times where I had trouble paying attention. I had trouble certainly reading, for I still have trouble reading for a long period of time. I found out pretty early, maybe kindergarten, that I had, a gift for telling stories.
00:19:53:21 - 00:20:18:21
Speaker 1
I can remember making kids laugh out on the recess. I can just remember that moment. And my mother, my mom's side of the family was very musical. So her stepbrothers, her brother, they all could play instruments. They were extremely good. And I can remember it 3 or 4 years old, probably sitting in the basement with just a haze of smoke.
00:20:18:23 - 00:20:36:02
Speaker 1
My mom would have to. And I think it was cigarets. I think it was. I don't think it was anything else, but she she I would not want to go to bed, not want to go to bed. She'd make me go to bed in my eyes would burn from the smoke and she had to put a like a wash rag, wet wash rag over my eyes.
00:20:36:08 - 00:21:01:06
Speaker 1
But I loved that it. It was very soothing for me. Music and, it still is. I've never done anything professionally with it, but I have used music a lot. There's some fun, stories and one in particular where when I used to run meetings for because I've done national anthem and different meetings and things, maybe 30 or 40 times.
00:21:01:08 - 00:21:22:15
Speaker 1
Okay. They're 30, so, but, when I would run a meeting when I was running my firm, we, you know, how you go on a break and you have the intermission, and then everybody gets back and everyone milling around and nobody's listening, and you're up on stage, and you're trying to get everybody back to focus.
00:21:22:17 - 00:21:49:00
Speaker 1
I would just start singing. Just a small town girl living in a lonely world. And then all of a sudden everybody would stop, look, and then sit down because they're listening to me sing. And then I'd sing just enough to where everybody got settled. And I'd say, okay, let's start the second half of the meeting. So I, I've used music a lot with in those types of things and see a lot of things.
00:21:49:02 - 00:22:20:17
Speaker 1
So that whole time that, that, that age five thing, just continued to rear its head over time. It was a unique thing that I just let lay dormant. Nobody ever pushed me to do that. Never took a lesson, never played an instrument. My parents never pushed any of that stuff. And then my when I got in high school, my junior year, offensive right tackle on the football team played first base on the baseball team.
00:22:20:19 - 00:22:40:12
Speaker 1
There was a girl I wanted to date who was trying out for the choir, and she said, Phil, you ought to come with me, you know? And you were always singing or singing, screwing around and whatnot. And I decided to, give it a shot. I went, I said, you know, for you, I'll do anything. And I went down there.
00:22:40:12 - 00:22:57:23
Speaker 1
She tried out, she came back out. He choir director came out and said, you're next. And I went in there. They even know what to do. I just did it. And he said, what would you like to sing? I couldn't think of a thing. So I sang Somewhere Over the Rainbow, believe it or not. And the next day, I made it.
00:22:57:23 - 00:23:26:00
Speaker 1
She didn't. So needless to say, that relationship went nowhere. But what came out of that and I was really. Now I'm freaking out because, you know, being in the choir, there's a little social suicide element in there for a guy playing football, right? But I was shocked. My buddies were always very supportive of it. I had so much fun in the choir that I, really have some lifelong friends from it.
00:23:26:02 - 00:23:53:04
Speaker 1
It actually introduced me to people who were different, diverse, met gay people for the first time, or at least that I was aware that I could have a friend that was like that. That was actually a pretty cool thing. And then eventually went to college, put it away. And except in our fraternity, we had a, Greek week type, mini Broadway production that they would do.
00:23:53:04 - 00:24:19:13
Speaker 1
It was a competitive thing. And so all of a sudden, boom, I'm back in there again, thrust into it. And so my senior year, was up, we, we walked our house one and I was up for best male vocals. I did a couple of songs and they were all tied into, like, a script. And, as I tell everybody all the time, one of the people that I was up against for best male Vocalist was Brad Pitt.
00:24:19:15 - 00:24:45:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. That guy. And guess who won? Right here. This guy, he never fully recovered. Struggled ever since. Right. But yeah, that was I used to drink beer with with Brad Pitt a few times. He is some of his best buddies are dear, dear friends of mine still to this day. They they were in a different fraternity house, sort of a not really a rival even, but a different one.
00:24:45:12 - 00:24:50:12
Speaker 1
And, and, some of his pledge brothers are very dear friends of mine.
00:24:50:14 - 00:24:53:13
Speaker 2
Were you a good student?
00:24:53:15 - 00:25:15:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. These are good. These are good questions. No. No, I was good as long as I went to class. So high school I did okay. I was pretty average. Maybe in the three, 3.0 kind of category. When I went to college and went to the I went to Mizzou, big school lecture halls.
00:25:15:21 - 00:25:40:02
Speaker 1
Remember how I told you I was almost overwhelmed me at times? I, I was a terrible student, almost flunked out my, my sophomore year, and then I then I started to realize, you know, if I have, I, if I have too much time, I am no good. So I had, so from that point on, I worked I worked two jobs at a in college and my grades got better.
00:25:40:06 - 00:26:19:18
Speaker 1
It's always good in classes where there was a project or even a paper. Not good in the traditional sense of question and answer, I fought it. I also was socializing way too much. I got through it and and from that point on knew I was going to be selling when I got out, which I ended up doing, I knew I was going to be, you know, I knew I was going to be, doing things, relationship building, you know, whether it be sales, whether it be fundraising, things like that, I still do.
00:26:19:20 - 00:26:23:20
Speaker 1
I kind of knew those pretty early on. I gravitated to those.
00:26:23:22 - 00:26:27:19
Speaker 2
When you made money, would you spend that money on,
00:26:27:21 - 00:26:36:15
Speaker 1
Well, early on, just, just the vital I mean, I, you know, food and clothing and shelter.
00:26:36:17 - 00:26:37:21
Speaker 2
But when you were a kid.
00:26:37:23 - 00:27:00:20
Speaker 1
Oh, what a kid. Cash. I really didn't work until college. And part of the reason was because I played on a very good baseball team. Very good basketball, baseball, little league, but, very good baseball team. And so all summer, instead of working, my dad always said, look, if you play competitive sports, you don't have to work. And so I didn't make a lot of money.
00:27:00:20 - 00:27:34:07
Speaker 1
I lived off my grandfather's. What I did, my grandfather used to always pay for performance. He'd pay for hits like, I get a buck or $0.50. My dad says $0.50. $0.50 for a single buck for a double, five bucks for a homer. You know, stuff like that. So you wonder why I'm so money motivated nowadays. But, but I would also I put a picture up and, and whenever he came over to LA till probably the day he passed, he would always put five bucks behind it.
00:27:34:09 - 00:28:01:13
Speaker 1
And that that and I would also say I lived off the change draw. The change, the change, saucer on the, in the washing machine. I used it for that stuff after baseball ended. Then I started working. And I'm a live to work person now. I have to be passionate about what I do. I could easily retire at this point, but I just can't see doing it.
00:28:01:13 - 00:28:27:01
Speaker 1
I like making money. I like making people money, I like fundraising, I monetize everything. I think a lot of it comes goes back to that time where everything was about performance. Good and bad. Okay, that's the the problem in my relationship with my dad growing up was that the gift in it was that okay, so there's gifts and wounds in every relationship.
00:28:27:03 - 00:28:45:23
Speaker 1
And that was definitely the case. My mom was pretty unconditional with she was a person who would always say, man, you'd be great at that. You know, you hit it, you hit a golf ball in the front yard or something, and she say, My God, you could be good at that. She was always very promote. If my dad was a was much more critical.
00:28:46:01 - 00:29:06:10
Speaker 1
And that was hard as the oldest dealing with it. I always felt like, I had no, connection with him during that time. It was just reporting. It was like reporting to your boss. And, our relationship, fortunately, is much stronger now. But it took a long time.
00:29:06:12 - 00:29:16:13
Speaker 2
Well, it seems like there's a conflict there. You were very confident, child. In order to be able to stand up and sing in front of people and then criticism and where those two fit together.
00:29:16:15 - 00:29:45:05
Speaker 1
Observant. I always say this, that I love to perform and I hate to be judged. And that's what you just described. I didn't like performing and being scrutinized or judged, but I, or the judged part of it, but I always gravitate to it. So if you had a group of people that want to, want to put on something or do something or put something together, I always gravitate to jumping in.
00:29:45:05 - 00:29:59:05
Speaker 1
And then as soon as I do it, I go, why the hell am I doing this right? What do I have to prove? It's like that foundational piece of always having to prove things. It's very innate with me.
00:29:59:06 - 00:30:05:06
Speaker 2
It sounds like a lot of self-awareness. Did you have this as you were going out into the world, about to start your.
00:30:05:08 - 00:30:28:22
Speaker 1
You know, the answer's no. And, I think you do that when they asked it, but but that. No. Gosh, no, I got I would say I knew from a vision standpoint, I had no clue when I was 15 what I would ever do. When I was 25, I had a I had a burst of clarity from a vision standpoint.
00:30:29:00 - 00:30:49:23
Speaker 1
2527 I knew that I wanted to do my own thing, build my own thing, whatever it was, I had to build my own thing, okay? And it wasn't going to be following anybody. It was going to be creating my own thing, do something, my deal, and I did. I opened an office, once I worked for Northwestern Mutual.
00:30:49:23 - 00:31:12:06
Speaker 1
I did that for till I could figure it out. Then I said, I want to open my own office. Everybody looked at me like I had two heads, and I did, and then so 25 was all about vision. 35 was when I learned about core values, emotional awareness. And a lot of it had to do with the fact I had accomplished in those ten years.
00:31:12:08 - 00:31:19:15
Speaker 1
So much I did way I, I went from being way behind to lapping the field in those ten years.
00:31:19:15 - 00:31:20:08
Speaker 2
In terms.
00:31:20:08 - 00:31:38:23
Speaker 1
Of, monetarily, goal achievement, things of that nature. So I ended up at that point at 35, saying, Jesus, this it I am way over my skis. I am way beyond what I ever thought I'd do.
00:31:39:01 - 00:31:42:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's a, loneliness in finding success.
00:31:42:03 - 00:32:04:15
Speaker 1
Scared the shit out of me, be honest with you. And and some of it also had to do with for the first time, it was stuff out of my control. Okay. And when my oldest son was born, he had some developmental challenges, early and, and so he was a tough kid to raise. He, he very in some ways a lot like me and depended that way.
00:32:04:17 - 00:32:23:11
Speaker 1
But it was really almost over the top with him at some time, at some points. So that and he was not athletic. That was probably the biggest part. I would throw 30 tennis balls to him and he couldn't hit one. And I found myself losing it. And I'm like, My God, that kid's five years old. Phil, what the hell?
00:32:23:13 - 00:32:45:14
Speaker 1
But I started thinking about my dad and my relationship with him and it caused me to really struggle with it. I started to do the things that I didn't like about him. I started to repeat them. Right. Unless you break the chain, you bear to repeat, right? So I, I at that point decided I'm going to break this chain.
00:32:45:16 - 00:33:04:12
Speaker 1
And my oldest son never played sports. Oh, he did till he was nine. And then it was like he's picking dandelions. And it was like, okay, we got to stop this, okay. No. So I but he had to have a relationship with him. So he ended up going more musical fact in high school sang in China, which was cool.
00:33:04:14 - 00:33:27:21
Speaker 1
Five different cities in China, which, you know, so he did his thing. Okay. But I would I had to deal with that. So at 35, I start to realize, okay, I cannot control everything that happens. I have got to accept some of that. So I hired my first executive coach. I did it primarily for for the reasons I mentioned.
00:33:27:21 - 00:33:46:15
Speaker 1
But there was also one other thing was I knew I was going to move up to the top of the food chain in my firm that I was a part of, and that might require me moving from Saint Louis, which is which was scary. So I was scared enough to say, you know, I'm going to let somebody in.
00:33:46:17 - 00:34:09:14
Speaker 1
Let's see what that's like. And I did that. And boy, once I met this guy, he had me pegged in 20 minutes. He threw stuff like I felt, well, almost like he was a, he almost like, you know, one of those soothsayers or, tarot readers or something, you know, it was that kind of thing. And so I just sat there and I said, my gosh, this is crazy.
00:34:09:16 - 00:34:16:06
Speaker 1
And I also said, I am going to do that someday. I was completely enamored by it.
00:34:16:08 - 00:34:18:10
Speaker 2
What did you do? They connected with you. Well, he.
00:34:18:13 - 00:34:40:18
Speaker 1
Just got he got through the veneer. He he understood. He had enough awareness to help me become aware of the things that triggered me, of the things that, you know, these he would say things to me like, you know, every everything you're saying right now is a part of your upbringing. It's a part of the relationships you had with your folks.
00:34:40:18 - 00:35:11:21
Speaker 1
It was very therapy oriented, but it was business centered. And my biggest fear, and the reason I did this was all my role models that ran firms were all divorced. And I was like, oh, well, wait a minute. I am going to have to sacrifice my marriage for my career. I didn't like it. Okay. One of the cool parts of my my, you know, my, siblings is they're all functionally married.
00:35:11:22 - 00:35:34:22
Speaker 1
Five of them are functionally married. My mom and dad functionally married. Okay, less probably my grandma. Grandpa. But that's different stage. But for for that to happen is pretty unique. And I and I really, give my folks a lot of credit. Core values were always very clear. My dad's a, you know, he's a normal guy, but he's very pure person.
00:35:35:00 - 00:36:03:20
Speaker 1
His pure heart almost get emotional. Think about that. He just really wants everybody to do well. Okay. Even to this day, he wants them to. He he is a crazy, quirky way of of saying it and dealing with it. But he really does. He's very pure that way. And that is a gift he gave me because I'm that same way.
00:36:03:22 - 00:36:27:13
Speaker 1
I don't like to be taken advantage of, but I will give and give and give to people. And then so 35, it was all about core values, okay? And emotional awareness. And then I got out to, I got out to the New York market, started working in a in a firm, got my ass kicked, and,
00:36:27:15 - 00:36:28:04
Speaker 2
Oh. So.
00:36:28:04 - 00:36:51:18
Speaker 1
Oh, just, there were so many layers to it. One was the my predecessor who retired was undermined me. He was, not a good person. Not to me, but he was very revered by the organization. And, and then, you know, some of it was just getting used to a different part of the world living.
00:36:51:18 - 00:37:16:03
Speaker 1
That was another one. You know, not people around you who had wealth that I couldn't comprehend. I thought I was doing well. And then, you know, I was making probably close to seven figures a year, but there were people around me making making double, triple, tens of millions in a year, you know, on Wall Street.
00:37:16:05 - 00:37:39:11
Speaker 1
So that was a interesting scenario, raising kids in a different environment, not having family around you. So there were a lot of layers to it. And I struggled pretty early. You know, who didn't struggle, interestingly enough, was my wife, though. She was the one that said there's no way she wanted to leave before we hired the executive coach, that they actually helped her.
00:37:39:11 - 00:38:07:10
Speaker 1
It was a couple, actually. They helped her get come along where she never looked back. I was like, oh boy, this is this is scary. And so, you know, the first five years of doing that, I felt like I didn't have any, bearings at all. I was just. I was just surviving. Yeah, I, I actually thought about stopping five years in because I couldn't figure out what to do.
00:38:07:10 - 00:38:28:18
Speaker 1
I used that phrase with you when we talked earlier about. I felt like Michael Scott at the office. I mean, it just felt like everything I touch turned to shit. What I got clear in, though, at 45. So it's like 25, 35, 45 at 45, I got clear. I stared down the abyss. Okay, I had been at this for seven years.
00:38:28:20 - 00:38:51:08
Speaker 1
Running a firm. Everything at home was fine. My relationship at home was fine. Kids were doing pretty, pretty good. My oldest had to go to boarding school. He was struggling, was seventh and eighth grade. So we. That was the hardest thing I ever dealt with there. But, moving him away. But I just was not fulfilled.
00:38:51:08 - 00:39:18:14
Speaker 1
Wasn't. And yet I was stubborn again to saying I'm going to I'm going to figure this out. And so I did hire another coach. And, the coach didn't help me on this, but I did finally at one point say, what happens if I get fired? That's how I felt it was it got that bad? I said, okay, so if I get fired, what would I do every day?
00:39:18:16 - 00:39:36:19
Speaker 1
And it was weird. I woke up one morning and I said, okay, I know what it is. And so I said, number one, meet somebody new every day. I live for that, I enjoy it. I don't care if it's the host host at my at dinner and I still need to meet somebody, I will know who they are.
00:39:36:23 - 00:39:57:16
Speaker 1
I know that where they're from, I know what motivates them. Those types of things meet somebody new every day. Number two hear hear your story. You know, I hired a listening coach you and I talked about there. We have a connection there, in that space. And so I heard it listening. Coach and I started to listen to people.
00:39:57:18 - 00:40:18:19
Speaker 1
Then I my next was help people put their puzzle together. Whatever it is, care if it's personal. I don't care if it's professional. I will help you in that because I felt like I had a gift in it. And lastly, walk with you to your destination. I didn't say direct. You didn't say push. You. I'm gonna walk with you.
00:40:18:21 - 00:40:39:08
Speaker 1
I this visual of walking alongside a lake with somebody where you're next to each other and you're talking about where you're headed. Those four things I said, I'm going to do these every day. And that got me through all this. Everything kind of turned, which was good. And then to this day, I still do those four things every day.
00:40:39:10 - 00:41:00:10
Speaker 1
I have not stopped and I'm now 60. So for 15 years I have done those four things. And everybody I coach, everybody I mentor, everybody I work with knows that I do those four things. And I every once while I remind them, you know, it's not about me, it's about these four things. And so that mission got clear there.
00:41:00:10 - 00:41:27:13
Speaker 1
And mission only comes only really comes into play during adversity. Clear mission. And it's because you're forced. You're pushed to make choices about how you're going to operate from here. For example, when somebody wins a Super Bowl, what's the first thing when they interview them? They say, well, I'm going to go to Disney World. But after that they say, nobody believed in us.
00:41:27:16 - 00:41:49:16
Speaker 1
We had we had injuries. We had everything's adversity all the way down, but we believed in ourselves. That's mission. We believed in us and made that happen. That's how I operate now in my professional and to less extent. But certainly their personal life. Okay.
00:41:49:18 - 00:41:58:15
Speaker 2
You mentioned staring down the abyss, and this sounds like it very far away from the abyss. So what changed when you came to this realization? How did that bring you back?
00:41:58:17 - 00:42:17:20
Speaker 1
Well, I just said, you know, I'm I'm good enough to do this. I've, I've gone. But I had one coach one time tell me I wrote down everything I've done successful in my life. I really this was very valuable. Wrote down everything successful in my life that happened. I had to literally brag. BA ba ba ba ba. Wrote them all down.
00:42:17:22 - 00:42:38:15
Speaker 1
And I looked at them because I had told them. I said, I'm not sure I should do this anymore, wrote all these things that got me there. And he says, just do those things. Just do those things. And I realized, you know what? There were a lot of those things, those foundational things. I what I stopped doing, I thought somehow it was different.
00:42:38:15 - 00:42:52:08
Speaker 1
It's not necessarily different. So the abyss was saying, okay, I'm going to get fired. This is going to end, what are you going to do every day? And that's what drove me to the mission.
00:42:52:10 - 00:42:54:18
Speaker 2
And so how much longer did you stay in that career?
00:42:54:18 - 00:43:28:10
Speaker 1
Another, let's see, that's oh seven, another 11 years of which really about four years after that, I, I again thought about moving on, but this time it was because I felt like I needed a new challenge. It was different that time. And then I if I, if I made a mistake, it was I stayed too long except financially, that that helped me get my kids through school.
00:43:28:10 - 00:43:51:23
Speaker 1
That helped me. I would have left when my kids were still in high school, and it was probably too soon. It wasn't that I didn't leave. Leave it on the field. Wasn't that I didn't show up. But I said I said, there's going to be a day, not 65 or 60. There's going to be a day before that where I'm going to move on and I did at 54.
00:43:52:01 - 00:43:54:10
Speaker 2
How did you meet your wife?
00:43:54:12 - 00:44:23:15
Speaker 1
You know, it's funny. We went all this distance, and I haven't mentioned that yet. We met, in journalism class in high school. So we sat next to each other. And she was the news editor. I was the managing editor of the school paper. And, and I was, as I like to say, she was right out of The Preppy Handbook.
00:44:23:17 - 00:44:44:12
Speaker 1
And I was, you know, the stages of. Man, I was the 1I3 quarters up right? Okay. I was a I was a mess. I don't think I ever wore a collared shirt till I met her. So it was a really a beauty and the beast kind of scenario. But I was, you know, I was popular in high school, I was athletic and so on.
00:44:44:17 - 00:45:11:07
Speaker 1
She was all academic, no athletes, no athleticism, really. And yet we laughed. We were friendly, sat next to each other, and that was it. Nothing ever romantic happened out of that. The next year, I was with a buddy of mine, my lifelong friend, Rob, and he, he said, he were in his Camaro and were driving over to pick up.
00:45:11:12 - 00:45:34:14
Speaker 1
We're meeting some friends, and we go to her house. Okay? And while we're in the car, we pick up a girlfriend of hers. And I just happened to say had a couple beers in me, and I said, I said, you know, I'd go out with Lisa Sentra. And her girlfriend took that. And while we were waiting for her because she.
00:45:34:14 - 00:45:57:13
Speaker 1
This was a sign of things to come. Always late when it came to going out. I mean, always late. I'm saying this just in case she ever sees it. The, she, her friend goes and talks to her in her room, comes back out and says to me, she'll go, oh, I didn't even remember what I said.
00:45:57:15 - 00:46:23:09
Speaker 1
I go, what? She says, Lisa, she'll go out with you. And I'm like, oh, okay. Now I had no game when I was in high school. Okay. With with girls. I just really didn't, I was still not, you know, I didn't dress up. I was, I was I had a lot of hair. I mean, I beared even then, you know, I was a, you know, I was unkempt a lot of times.
00:46:23:11 - 00:46:46:22
Speaker 1
And so, and so I, it still took me about, oh, maybe a month later to ask her. And then we went out and really hit it off. We went to see, I went on a double date. We went to Happy Joe's Pizza. A lot of Saint Louis references in here. And then we went to see the movie taps.
00:46:47:00 - 00:47:25:13
Speaker 1
Pre Brat Pack movie. Then, it was freezing cold, I remember. And, January 8th of 1982. Yeah. And, we dated for a while. Broke up, dated, broke up, dated, broke up. Date somewhere between 5 and 50 times. But went to college. I'm a year older than she is. And so we, ended up making it, and, we got engaged six months after I graduated from college, and she was still a senior at Mizzou.
00:47:25:14 - 00:47:44:01
Speaker 1
And, yeah, we've been together now 30 for 36 years. Marriage and dating, if you want to include that 43 somewhere in there. And it's a it's a, it's a great relationship. It's always been easy.
00:47:44:03 - 00:47:45:19
Speaker 2
What do you mean by easy? Easy?
00:47:45:19 - 00:48:14:15
Speaker 1
Meaning we just the only time we ever had arguments was about, raising the kids. That's it. Never. I have my role. She has hers. We're very comfortable in the role. The only time we've ever had marital challenges is when she's worked for me. And that's been in the last few years. That's been probably the toughest relationship time for us because, when I was running my firm, I took big risks.
00:48:14:15 - 00:48:45:09
Speaker 1
I would, you know, to lose $20,000 on something wasn't a big thing for me. But now that I do that here, she sees it, and she has. She has real deep trigger, sir. She has deep fear about financial ruin, and there's some reasons for it. But that's for her video, not mine. But it's a but it's that kind of thing that caused quite some friction because she would start to weigh in and judge.
00:48:45:09 - 00:49:05:10
Speaker 1
And if I hear judgment, you know, what's you're getting you're getting a whole can of what best for me because I don't I'm like, nope, not going there. So that has been a challenge. We've had to make some adjustments within the company, to really put her in a role that makes sense, where she can contribute without having to do that.
00:49:05:10 - 00:49:27:08
Speaker 1
Now she's been in real estate. She's been a lot of things very creative. I, I, I like to call her Martha Stewart. Out the legal trouble because she's, she's got, she's good at a lot of stuff and very good in crisis when people are struggling. She's really strong with my parents had some struggles. She just oh, here's what we're gonna do.
00:49:27:09 - 00:49:50:20
Speaker 1
Bump, bump bump bump bump, bump. She's real good that way. And so the relationship, when I say it's easy, it's just compatible. It's been fun. We do a lot of things together. We're both, social. I'm more even more so than she is. But it was a good, a good decision for both of us, I think.
00:49:50:22 - 00:49:54:14
Speaker 2
Speaking of judgment, what did her parents think of you?
00:49:54:16 - 00:50:19:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's funny. Well, her her mom and dad were divorced. Her dad left when she was 15. Okay? And so he was kinda out of the picture. Her mom is very passive person. Not really. You know, doesn't. Not in a bad way. Just doesn't give her opinion on a lot of things. So I never really I felt like I was kind of on her own, really.
00:50:19:20 - 00:50:45:01
Speaker 1
Her mom did a great job of raising five kids, especially without a heavy male influence. But I, because she never really engaged with anybody after that, but she was kind of on her own, and she is extremely resilient. She's not very emotional. Like I said, she just can take on a lot of stuff. She manages.
00:50:45:01 - 00:50:54:03
Speaker 1
She's a CEO of the house. Even now. I just generate revenue. Vice president of sales.
00:50:54:05 - 00:50:55:07
Speaker 2
Do you really view it that way?
00:50:55:07 - 00:51:22:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, kind of. I, she takes on a lot. I'm almost inept for follow through. And especially as we've had success and and the income to do so, I don't I always say I have a guy, you know, I she'll, you know, do the marital thing where she'll go. Could you go down I could you take a look at the furnace, you know, and I'll go downstairs and okay, call somebody.
00:51:22:08 - 00:51:41:18
Speaker 1
I don't know what to do. So I, I just really I wasn't raised to know a lot about taking care of a home. I'm not handy. I generated a lot of revenue to not have to deal with that, and and she isn't really either. So we have a lot. We have a complex life with a lot of handlers.
00:51:41:20 - 00:52:03:19
Speaker 1
I just like to do what I do. I feel like I've earned it. And sometimes, you know, she'll revert back to work, you know, in a in a moment, she'll say, you need to do this or you need to do that. And I'm like, nope. And, and so we have that little bit of back and forth, but we get through it.
00:52:03:21 - 00:52:08:07
Speaker 2
When you became a parent, were you ready for it?
00:52:08:09 - 00:52:32:11
Speaker 1
I would say yes. In this regard, I think we, we live in an apartment. Then we bought a small home, and then we were we were married already for four years. Maybe, kind of got rid of all the, you know, got the business off the ground. So I'd say we both sat there one day and said, you ready?
00:52:32:13 - 00:53:02:16
Speaker 1
So no surprise there. We did have a miscarriage before. First we had a miscarriage for the second. But overall I think we were ready. Three boys, all within about 11 weeks of each other, three years apart, which isn't like planned, but it all kind of worked out that way. And, you know, I kind of raise them like me, with regards to chores around the house.
00:53:02:18 - 00:53:17:09
Speaker 1
I used to, you know, when I used to do certain things I would do around the house, not mow, because we had three and a half acres by the time they were kids, you know? So could I have done that? Yes. Did I know? But, you know, let's say we were. We do mulch. They bring mulch by.
00:53:17:12 - 00:53:33:15
Speaker 1
And I would always say, let's do the mulch. And I'd always tell them, you know, you need to do 20 bushels for the family and then we'll talk money. Okay. So I would always throw in that you have an obligation here. Now what I've come to find is, is when they lived in the house, they didn't do shit.
00:53:33:17 - 00:53:57:07
Speaker 1
Now that they're raised, I think they're very respectable, responsible, young men. And, as I like to say, they're not on subsidized housing anymore at this point. Which is so funny to say that about a 30 year old, but because our oldest is 30, but it's a, they are, they're solid citizens. I'm.
00:53:57:10 - 00:54:18:04
Speaker 1
I'm pleased. I've never I never really pushed them, pushed them in athletics, which was a, you know, a blessing and a curse for me. But, I told them, you know, go cure cancer. Go do what you think you're passionate about. It could they be a little more ambitious, take more risks? Maybe not ambitious, more risks.
00:54:18:06 - 00:54:44:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, for me, but they were raised in wealth. They saw that. They saw the world differently than I did. Listen, I neither of us have ever had any money. Lisa didn't even have a car in college. Funny, story about our relationship when we broke up in college. She caught because we went the same high school. So she called me before Thanksgiving and said, I know we're broken up, but could you take me home for Thanksgiving?
00:54:44:05 - 00:54:55:18
Speaker 1
And I said, sure, of course I would. And halfway back home, we were back together. And so it's that kind of thing, right? It's it's, you know, being kids.
00:54:55:20 - 00:55:02:23
Speaker 2
You mentioned having to break some of the cycle with your dad. Do you think as a parent, you were like your parents, or did you try to be different than them?
00:55:02:23 - 00:55:34:12
Speaker 1
I think when it came to athletics, I was I unfortunately followed some of the same path, especially with my oldest not playing sports when my two other kids came along and they had some, I saw some gifts and some skills. I was I was probably a little over the top with it. I think if if we talked to them, they'd say that, as far as working on since then, working on staying connected to them is absolute.
00:55:34:12 - 00:55:57:00
Speaker 1
Most important thing to me is that my kids know that I get them, that I understand them. That's the piece that I, I never felt when I was younger. My dad was always, whether it be fear or whether now I know it to be fear or whether it be control he always wanted to fix. If you had a problem, it was always he had to fix it.
00:55:57:02 - 00:56:13:23
Speaker 1
Where, and and and it would come off as if he was trying to tell you what to do. I don't I don't approach it that way. I really have, worked on that as part of my part of my professional life, but also as part of my parenting.
00:56:14:01 - 00:56:16:13
Speaker 2
Did you have to make any tough decisions as a parent?
00:56:16:15 - 00:56:41:10
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. Yeah. The one I brought up earlier was sending my oldest to boarding school. My wife and he were just could not live in the same house together, you know? And, as he got to seventh and eighth grade, he wasn't going to class. He was, you know, just, could not find his way, very lazy.
00:56:41:12 - 00:57:01:04
Speaker 1
He basically, I always say that when my wife found out that he was developmentally slower, he was going too slow. He was going to develop slower. She started to do everything for him and compensated for it and and worked hard to help him through all that, you know, all the IEPs and things that needed to be done.
00:57:01:04 - 00:57:31:14
Speaker 1
She worked with him on. And but what happened was he was, you know, he got to be, seventh, eighth grade and he was acting out. He was and he was causing trouble in school. And some of it was, actually, you know, stuff that I would have done, but I would have played it differently, like, doing impressions of the teachers, but he'd get caught or something would happen like that, you know, and he just.
00:57:31:16 - 00:57:52:20
Speaker 1
And his. And so his classwork was struggling and, so my executive coach had always talked about alternative education. So we started looking at boarding school, taking him to eighth grade to live away from home was the toughest thing I think I did as a parent. I cried, I wept like a baby all the way home.
00:57:52:22 - 00:57:54:03
Speaker 2
What were you afraid of?
00:57:54:05 - 00:58:22:14
Speaker 1
It was just the fact that I felt like I failed. I felt like I had, and my dad reinforced some of that to said, you know, your son's going to go away to school. You know, he it's going to be social, social problem. You know, he, he he was not an advocate. Okay. And so that was an example of where he would he would interject when, when I didn't, he I didn't ask for any advice.
00:58:22:16 - 00:58:44:01
Speaker 1
And he was triggering me because I felt that way. I felt like I had fallen short. What could I have done differently? Better, that kind of thing. Lisa was not didn't feel as much the same. She was like, he has to go away, okay. And, and and so, you know, his whole high school, we were not a family unit.
00:58:44:03 - 00:59:06:00
Speaker 1
Now in a lot of ways, he was always in so much trouble. Probably helped us to younger brothers because he got so much attention because of how he acted. They got none. So I think in some ways it helped the unit. Now the three boys close as, unit as unique and different as they are very close. Okay.
00:59:06:01 - 00:59:29:19
Speaker 1
They'll go they'll go to. And a lot of it is my middle son who's a real, gem this way is he'll take he'll he'll, coordinate them. Even when we're in Florida for the winter, he'll coordinate them meeting together up in Newport for their birthdays. Okay. And it's a, And so they they they actually, during Covid, they all lived in our condo.
00:59:29:21 - 00:59:45:11
Speaker 1
We we lived in Newport. They lived together. Now, that was tough for them, but they made it. And, only because none of them had any money. One thing my wife and I did well was our kids, were poor when they were in college, just like we were.
00:59:45:13 - 00:59:47:05
Speaker 2
Why was that a good decision?
00:59:47:07 - 00:59:58:00
Speaker 1
Well, because they had to take some responsibility. They didn't have big unlimited accounts. They had friends with big unlimited accounts. Okay. But, we never went that route.
00:59:58:01 - 01:00:10:06
Speaker 2
When you look back and you were saying you wondered if it was your fault on your son going to school, what advice would you give that younger parent? That's agonizing over this decision?
01:00:10:08 - 01:00:31:01
Speaker 1
Well, I don't know if I've completely dealt with all of it. You know, for example, trying to give, trying to try some other sports, maybe, you know, I'll everyone wants to I'll go. God, I wish, because the challenge, the tough thing for him is, he is what sports do is it's a built in social setting.
01:00:31:03 - 01:00:53:08
Speaker 1
Okay. So there's when you're not playing sports, you know, it's it can be tough. And that, that became tough. And then he, he was very good on stage, but he didn't like it. Okay. He got to a point where he, I don't see outgrew it, but he didn't like it. He got a scholarship for college to do that, but he said, I just don't want to do that.
01:00:53:10 - 01:01:12:08
Speaker 1
And then he struggled coming out, even coming out of college, every new thing that he did, he always struggled with it. And then he's done well. You know, he's, he's doing fine now. You know, he works for fidelity. He got a series seven. You know, he's done, very well professionally, but it just took a little longer.
01:01:12:10 - 01:01:45:07
Speaker 1
So, to get back to an older parent, telling younger parent is, is. Don't don't try to impress anybody. I really felt like I went when I went up to New York. I was just trying to fit in to that way of doing things when I'm just not that way. It's a very intense community in where we lived, very competitive with people that you'd ask, where's your kid?
01:01:45:08 - 01:02:09:20
Speaker 1
Where's your kid going on college visits. And they say, I'm not. I don't want to say, because they were competing with you for that spot at the college. Could be an Ivy League school, could be a private school, that kind of thing. So it was really, really, at that time, really interesting and weird. Because I'm not built that way, you know, I went to Mizzou, I wanted tickets to go to Mizzou.
01:02:09:22 - 01:02:30:04
Speaker 1
You know, I, my wife didn't as much because she. I think she was afraid they wouldn't come back. She was a little afraid of that. But, you know, as it turned out, they they both ended up in public educations. And, it wasn't easy. Two of my boys, the first school they went to, they didn't end up at.
01:02:30:06 - 01:02:45:21
Speaker 1
But they've all they all finished. So, you know, it's hard for me even now to reconcile and say that I have wisdom around all that. I'm not sure I do.
01:02:45:23 - 01:02:55:13
Speaker 2
Let's move to the last section. The wisdom section? Yeah. What is success?
01:02:55:14 - 01:03:18:16
Speaker 1
That's a good one. You know, I'm writing a novel right now called The Voyage. It's going to be coming out in, January. And the last section is wisdom. Okay. It's about a mythical sea captain and going through, his life and telling stories about, the things that he's learned and whatnot. And we get to wisdom at the end.
01:03:18:18 - 01:03:47:07
Speaker 1
So what is wisdom? Wisdom and for me is relationships matter. When it's all said and done, it's so it's that memory, you know, if if something happens after this, after I stop breathing, okay. If and when that happens, I believe it's a, it's a when it'll at least be the memories and relationships. It's the legacy. So let's say a second one is what's the legacy you lead.
01:03:47:09 - 01:04:18:14
Speaker 1
And it doesn't have to be something formal like, and I used to think that, you know, like, I have to have a, a book or I have to have bricks, you know, and mortar or something with a name on it. That was always a thing for me. I always wanted to be a hero. Okay. But now that I'm, you know, getting to that wisdom space and having done some of those things now, it's really about, how do people, think about you when you're gone, you know, is there a moment where they tell a story?
01:04:18:16 - 01:04:37:01
Speaker 1
You know, I remember that story he told, or I remember that that funny thing he said or, I think that's really powerful for me. So I just can't get enough of making an impact on people, at whatever level it is.
01:04:37:03 - 01:04:40:04
Speaker 2
What do you think happens when we die?
01:04:40:05 - 01:05:10:14
Speaker 1
I think I'm at a point now where I think it is a there's something spiritual that goes on. I think it's a, it's a mindset. It's a, it's a letting go of, of that. I don't think that everything ends. And I think I don't think everything ends because I think there are people that where you leave something behind, a memory, a a story or whatnot.
01:05:10:16 - 01:05:31:19
Speaker 1
And, boy, I just I would love it to be that you can just sit above and observe that. Wouldn't that be fun? That would be a really cool thing for me to just sit and observe. And probably our penance would be or would be that we can't say anything about it. Right. Oh, shit. You're screwing up. What?
01:05:32:00 - 01:05:52:12
Speaker 1
You know, what are you. What do you say? But you got no wrong answer. Wrong answer? That's going to work out poorly, right? I would love for that to be in play, you know? You know, I take it back. I would love to meet people afterward. Again. I stopped short of saying I believe that, but I love that.
01:05:52:12 - 01:06:19:12
Speaker 1
That would be cool. You know, people that influenced you in some way. And maybe that's where your memory is just, you know, it's like your memory goes into a bank or something. You know, it's an interesting, story around my grandfather when he passed, he was 87, went to the doctor, excuse me, went to a wedding and with my dad, took him to see my dad.
01:06:19:13 - 01:06:43:13
Speaker 1
Only child. Took my grandfather out after my grandmother died, every single day for lunch for 15 years during the workweek. Okay. And then went to the same place, hilltop over on Loughborough and Margaret Ford. And my grandfather probably drank 3 to 6 beers every single day, and he, he has on table. He had a little thing there.
01:06:43:13 - 01:07:07:19
Speaker 1
I don't know if it's still there, but at the place. But it had a table, said Jake Bender's table. And he would go there, and it was a big thing for him. And then they went to a wedding, and he his heart felt weird. So they went to Deaconess Hospital and, and, and, my dad call me as a cardinal game of stone.
01:07:07:19 - 01:07:34:15
Speaker 1
Saint Louis said you should come over. Things are not going well. So we got there, and, he was, you know, in cardiac arrest. Congestive heart failure. Now, here's the thing. There's a guy standing there who's a, who was, male nurse, had a ponytail. I remember, and he was pulled my dad aside and said, Mr. Bender, your your your dad's bags are packed.
01:07:34:15 - 01:07:55:21
Speaker 1
It's time for you to tell him it's okay to go. My dad's like, no, he's coming out of here, coming out of here, coming out of here. You know, he was he was defiant. So finally, the we everybody shows up, the guy pulls him, Dallas gets side again. He says, your dad is, struggling. You it's you need it's bags are packed.
01:07:55:21 - 01:08:20:13
Speaker 1
Tell him it's time to go. He said, no, I'm not doing it. And he says, you know what? We're all going to go next door, have a beer. We'll talk about it. So we all go next door. My brothers, my dad, my mom. I think a couple other people showed up and, and we're telling stories about my grandfather because he was a big fish, you know, not not financially, but just a storyteller.
01:08:20:13 - 01:08:42:08
Speaker 1
And we were telling all goofy stories like the Billiken story. Right? And so all of a sudden, the the, the, the nurse male nurse calls over and he says, I'm leaving my shift. You need to tell your grandfather today that it's okay. Are your dad it's okay to go. He says, you know what? Come on over, have a beer with us.
01:08:42:10 - 01:09:03:00
Speaker 1
The nurse comes over. Can't make this up. Comes over, has beers with us at, schmoozing us was where it was. So anyway, he is, telling. We're telling all stories about my grandfather. My grandfather. Then he says. He finally says, I got to go home. He says, but you got to go back to the hospital. He shows us the way to sneak up.
01:09:03:02 - 01:09:24:14
Speaker 1
We all sneak up. We go up there and we all decide, okay, we're going to tell him it's okay to go. Everybody says they're peace. My brother Dave, who? My brother Dave, and, my grandfather had a not a great relationship. Okay. They were fine. But, my my brother Dave was, acted up as a case like Dennis the Menace kind of thing.
01:09:24:14 - 01:09:48:13
Speaker 1
And so my grandfather used to, you know, take the belt out, not hit him, but always threaten him. And so he he says his peace brother Dave was last goes over, kisses my grandfather on the forehead. He stopped breathing immediately after that. Everybody in the room told him it was okay to go. My brother day was the last one did that.
01:09:48:13 - 01:10:18:09
Speaker 1
Kissed him on the forehead. He stopped breathing right there like that. Now that saint. That was weird. Okay? Seemed divine. The next day, my brother Jim were, you know, talking about what happened the other day. And he says, you know, I don't. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure who that male nurse was. I don't know did did anybody was he even on the hospital staff?
01:10:18:11 - 01:10:33:16
Speaker 1
It was it was eerie. And it was like this guy, we don't know if it was an angel. We don't know if it was an actual nurse. All we know was that guy was there coaching my dad through this whole thing.
01:10:33:18 - 01:10:34:15
Speaker 2
Wow.
01:10:34:21 - 01:10:55:20
Speaker 1
It was pretty powerful. And so, you know, you start to have you hear a story like that, and I live that story and you start to changes a little bit of your perspective on things, right? Because you pay attention when stuff like that happens right now. He could have just been the nurse on the shift. I'd rather see it the other way.
01:10:55:22 - 01:11:19:02
Speaker 1
And I think we all would rather see it the other way. And so that's what I talk about when you know that there's so many metaphors and layers into that story itself, which is why thanks for indulging in it, because there's so many layers to that. There's us sharing all the stories about him, us sharing it with that nurse, and other people in the bar.
01:11:19:02 - 01:11:48:14
Speaker 1
It was it was hysterical. We had like a collection of people around us and, and then us sneaking in and then us and then reconciling. Okay, this guy lived his life with one child. Okay. Very overprotected because they had one, and they, and he, just wanted to advance the family. I know that was always the case.
01:11:48:16 - 01:12:26:18
Speaker 1
And what's interesting is he came from wealth in in Russia and just wanted to advance the family here. I think that was really when it was all said and done. I think he knew he couldn't do it himself. Okay. No. No education, no college education. Okay. And I think he that's why they fought like hell to get my dad to wash you and and then so I think a lot of this legacy that we're talking about, for me is that.
01:12:26:20 - 01:12:30:17
Speaker 1
Advancing family.
01:12:30:19 - 01:12:42:04
Speaker 1
Took me a long time to get there, but I really do believe that. And I feel a sense of responsibility on.
01:12:42:06 - 01:12:47:01
Speaker 2
What does it mean to be a bender?
01:12:47:03 - 01:13:05:06
Speaker 1
Well, I was just about to say that I think that the the family itself is, you know, what it is it to be a benders, to be a very, very good friend? Yeah.
01:13:05:08 - 01:13:22:23
Speaker 1
That's the. All the way down. All the way down to be a very, very good, loyal sometimes to a fault, friend to others.
01:13:23:01 - 01:13:37:11
Speaker 2
You talked about your dad being pure. Yeah. If future generations are listening to this and they're stuck at a spot, they don't. They don't know how to move forward. What can they know or learn from that idea of purity, of purity?
01:13:37:13 - 01:14:08:05
Speaker 1
I think that, it's it's a core values based understanding. My dad never talked about core values. He just had ground rules. He always, he he once had, wrote a, an editorial in his paper about the LeMay. I think it was LeMay or Afton Fire Department. And they firebombed his office. This was when I was a little kid.
01:14:08:07 - 01:14:34:17
Speaker 1
Maybe 8 or 9. And it was scary for him. Very scary. They did not like what he said. It was a different era back then. Okay. And so, you know, that was an example of doing the right thing. I always felt like he I think he did the right thing sometimes the wrong way, because he was stubborn about it.
01:14:34:19 - 01:14:57:10
Speaker 1
And, I used to always say if he had brothers, he would have understood how to compromise a little better. Understand? Other guy. You know, it's not always about what you think. But he. But he was very clear in the values when that's when I think a pure is just always centered on other people winning. Yeah.
01:14:57:10 - 01:15:19:12
Speaker 1
He's got flaws. That generation has certainly some of them, but a year. But I never hear him. I always wish when I was a kid that what he said about other people. He would say about me. That was the hard part for me. Wow. Because a lot of my buddies will say, God, we loved your dad.
01:15:19:12 - 01:15:41:02
Speaker 1
He. He was always built this up. He always helped it. But he. But I said, you didn't live with him growing up. That was the hard part for me. And of course, when you're a kid, you don't have. You have a choice. You just. And I chose not to fight. I chose to swallow until later on. And when?
01:15:41:04 - 01:15:57:20
Speaker 1
When I just had so many different problems, with, that I had to finally address them with him. Good news is, he. It took a while, but he got it. And that that that was a cool thing.
01:15:57:22 - 01:16:05:14
Speaker 2
And your boys are one day fathers. What do you hope they know about fatherhood?
01:16:05:16 - 01:16:43:03
Speaker 1
Well, that that you get one shot at it, but that you can make adjustments. And that you will regret some things. But if you, if you stick to foundational things that matter, that, that it helps and you can't control everything that happens. You can just adjust. You can just stay, present. And, and be there for kids.
01:16:43:03 - 01:17:17:16
Speaker 1
I, I think, again, value of all the parenting that I've seen, both on both sides, women and, you know, spouses and, is that I think that where my folks did a really nice job, there was, was was being, dedicated to it, like, it's, like it's a responsibility. I said, my my two boys, my younger boys were in York, and my brother Dave came in, and my brother is larger than life guy.
01:17:17:17 - 01:17:39:09
Speaker 1
Oh, my, oh my sibs are have this larger than life type quality. But Dave is just another another level. And he was holding court in this bar in New York City. And my, my boys were, you know, maybe ten and 13 or something like that. And they're, they I can remember looking at me because he's just cutting up and they're laughing at him.
01:17:39:09 - 01:18:04:07
Speaker 1
And they said, dad, how come you're not more like Uncle Dave? And without even hesitating, I said, it's because I'm your dad and I have responsibility and role to play. There will be a day. I'll be more like Uncle Dave. It's not now. And that, I think, is is what parenting is. I mean by design. I think it's there has to be a boundary.
01:18:04:09 - 01:18:29:14
Speaker 1
And I think parents nowadays are struggling with this because they want to be so much a friend to their kids. And the kid then loses a little bit of their bearings on this. Okay. I think generationally ago, when people all lived in the same communities, uncles probably took over from about the time 13 to 20 and sent the message for the parent right.
01:18:29:16 - 01:18:53:06
Speaker 1
And because everybody lives everywhere now, we live in different places and whatnot. I think there's been an element of that lost. So you have to so you don't have that option. And we moved away. So we we are an example of that. But I don't think that's one you talk about regret earlier with what would I have done differently as a parent that I wouldn't have done differently?
01:18:53:08 - 01:19:24:01
Speaker 1
I was a parent, not a friend to my kids, and I think that now, you know, I am working, I want to say, working toward getting it back, but I'm definitely more comfortable in that role of saying, of not judging. That's a that's the difference between what I did with my kids versus I think what my dad did with me is I don't judge them on things.
01:19:24:03 - 01:19:37:18
Speaker 1
I ask them what they think. I say, that sounds pretty good to me. Do you want my, thoughts on it? You know, things that I've learned from from, listening and learned from leadership.
01:19:37:20 - 01:19:40:00
Speaker 2
You've been with your wife for a very long time.
01:19:40:00 - 01:19:41:08
Speaker 1
Yep.
01:19:41:10 - 01:19:51:17
Speaker 2
What is a trait or something about her that you couldn't have known when you were just working on the newspaper together? But now, after having been with her all these years, you can see.
01:19:51:19 - 01:20:16:00
Speaker 1
Well, yeah, there's a couple of them. You know, I think the first one is maybe a little tongue in cheek, and that is I didn't realize you were like this when we were dating. Right. You get a little bit of that. And, that she is very particular, and, and, you know, she's impossible to buy a, Christmas gift for or any gift impossible.
01:20:16:02 - 01:20:41:02
Speaker 1
It is absolutely impossible to do. And she is she doesn't even fake her way through it. She'll look at you and go, what? What? You know, and and even or even the boys, we just all, you know, know that. Okay. I got mad at her one year, and I was so frustrated, I said, look, I'm going to dog your stuff all year.
01:20:41:06 - 01:21:04:05
Speaker 1
You dog your stuff, send it to me from catalogs, and I'm going to have my assistant, my executive assistant buy all the gifts for it. Will wrap them, put them on the tree. You know what she said? That sounds like a great idea. So she very self-centered that way. Okay, when it comes to that kind of thing, if she just wants it a certain way.
01:21:04:07 - 01:21:33:19
Speaker 1
What I what I appreciate most is how, dedicated she is to our marriage. Just dedicated to it. I never I never felt even an ounce of, you know, you got to stop doing this or I'm out. I never felt that. I've had a couple those moments. And I'm very open about those. But with her, I was.
01:21:33:21 - 01:22:00:11
Speaker 1
And. But I've never felt that one time. I never even felt it when we were dating. She has always been devoted to me. When we were dating, when we broke up, I always initiated the break ups. She had a date within 48 hours every time, but always when when I came back, she took me back. Was that the devotion?
01:22:00:12 - 01:22:23:15
Speaker 1
Is is significant to me. I don't think I've ever felt a an ounce of fear in our relationship, and I didn't. I don't want to say I it was different than I expected. It was just it's kind of an amazing thing. She is just very shy about pure. She is very pure that way and makes me better that way.
01:22:23:17 - 01:22:28:06
Speaker 1
Does make me better.
01:22:28:08 - 01:22:31:16
Speaker 2
Was there anything that I didn't ask that I should have.
01:22:31:18 - 01:22:54:01
Speaker 1
Or you covered? You covered, so many things, you know, maybe. What do you see into the future? That would maybe. Which would be a question I would ask. So maybe that's, you know, I would ask that on a podcast or I would ask that, you know, how do you see the future here? And, it's probably the only thing I can think of.
01:22:54:03 - 01:23:19:13
Speaker 1
Where do you go from here? Well, I, what I, what I know is I am going to I am going to stay a coach till, I keel over one day. I have a, one of my mentors just recently decided to step down. He's almost 80, and I just had this phone call just today with him.
01:23:19:13 - 01:23:42:04
Speaker 1
It's very funny. And he was very, a very instrumental in my transition out of being, a field leader into a, our managing partner, into what I do now, consulting. I will consult and coach as long as I'm coherent and relevant. Okay. So I think that's a visionary piece that want to change. I'd like to build scale in my firm.
01:23:42:06 - 01:24:03:07
Speaker 1
I'd like to have a piece of it or some of it be salable. That or provide a legacy in that space. That would be cool. But I'm not wed to it. It doesn't. If I get one day wake up, say, I'm tired of this, I'm done. I am a, dedicated, volunteer and, shameless fundraiser.
01:24:03:07 - 01:24:14:09
Speaker 1
So I continue those things, I'd like to see. I've never once put any pressure on my kids to date or. But, you know, you got to get Grant.
01:24:14:10 - 01:24:15:19
Speaker 2
We need when those grandkids.
01:24:15:19 - 01:24:44:21
Speaker 1
Come, you know, that kind of stuff. Lisa and I both are very, youthful in our age. And, I'm 60. I don't feel it. Other than a damn pinched nerve. Today, I feel I feel, very useful in it, and I, I, prescribe to this philosophy that if you're that the only time you ever become old is when your memories outweigh your new experiences.
01:24:44:22 - 01:25:20:03
Speaker 1
As long as your new experiences continue to outweigh memories, you're technically not old. And so I'm very devoted and dedicated. We both are to that. So our vision is about is about experiences. Not just travel. I think that's, an obvious one, but I think it's relationships. It's it's new friendships. It's, That type of thing, really thrive in that, and unique, unique, unique experiences.
01:25:20:05 - 01:25:36:20
Speaker 1
I'd love to see the kids happy and healthy and and, we have great friends, where we live now. And, I enjoy that. They act like glorified college kids, which I like. I like sophomoric stuff.
01:25:36:22 - 01:25:40:03
Speaker 2
If people wanted to learn more about your coaching business, where would they go?
01:25:40:08 - 01:26:05:14
Speaker 1
Well, they'll they'll go to Phil at sea. Captain coaching.com or Ahoy at sea captain coaching.com, which is the general email. Or they'll go to the website sea captain coaching.com. I love for everybody who views this too. By that by my new book, The Voyage, which is not even out yet, but, I don't it's not even about a financial thing.
01:26:05:14 - 01:26:31:12
Speaker 1
I just want I just want to see if you think it's cool. Because it's not autobiographical. I do have a novel that I wrote that semi-autobiographical. That's the one with the coming of age story. It's called marking the Twain, which I have not published yet. But I will this year, probably, or early next. And, and so just I'm, I'm into projects.
01:26:31:14 - 01:26:51:16
Speaker 1
We talk about vision for the future. I just dig projects. I'm like Shark Tank. I like to hear about people's projects and can I help? And that's that's really it. So if anybody wants to talk to me or one of our coaches because we have coaches in 15 industries, ahoy at sea captain coaching.com.
01:26:51:18 - 01:26:56:11
Speaker 2
Well, still, Bender, thank you so much. Yeah I'm down and doing this I really appreciate what fund.
01:26:56:11 - 01:27:08:19
Speaker 1
I tell you what, Vince. This was this I did not expect at this level. And, what a special treat. And I, I think everything that was said today, I would want my family to see.