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Tyson Popplestone is a Comedian from Melbourne Australia. Join him for a brand new interview each week.
tyson (00:01.338)
There we go, great. So what are we? We're at the end of your day, we're at the start of your day. Always get confused.
Akil (00:06.521)
Yeah, it's about 2 p.m., just midday here.
tyson (00:09.51)
Okay, so I'm just getting started on my Thursday morning. Yeah, I've been to LA a couple of times, but not enough to actually have to seriously consider what the time difference is. So, yeah, halfway through your day. But man, really, I'm really excited to have the opportunity to sit down with you. Obviously, a big fan of your work and the things that you're doing and teaching and so many of the conversations that you've had. And I was thinking about a nice place for us to start because the world of health is a scene that's very interesting to me. I've been fascinated.
Akil (00:18.859)
Oh, right.
tyson (00:39.582)
in the subject since I can remember. But one of the things which I'm constantly amazed by is 2024 now, we live in a society which I feel in many respects is really improving their knowledge around health and wellbeing. But one of the things that I'm constantly surprised by is despite the interest and the supplements and the teaching and the availability of resources, there seems to be a real disconnect still between the knowledge that we have
Akil (00:54.597)
Yes.
tyson (01:08.274)
and the decrease in things like autoimmune disease and Parkinson's disease. And so I guess as a way to kickstart the conversation, I'd be interested to hear you speak to that. What do you think's actually going on to cause such availability of information and still such increases in what should be fairly treatable diseases, ailments, illnesses?
Akil (01:31.881)
Yes. Yeah, that's a great question, Tyson. I think that what we're seeing is really a perfect storm of factors globally that are leading to this epidemic of chronic disease and autoimmune disease. You're totally right. We have a lot of the information in terms of research, diet, lifestyle, the gut microbiome, the effects of stress.
So we have the knowledge, but it's not translating into day-to-day life for most people in the world. And I believe one of the unrecognized factors is the rise of environmental toxins. So these have been rapidly increasing in the past years. And I feel not enough attention is paid to the effects on chronic illness, metabolism, immune health, gut microbiome, from toxins, as well as these other factors as well, like...
deterioration of our food supply, changes in our gut bacteria, of course the increased stress of modern living. So I think all of those factors in combination.
tyson (02:33.79)
Yeah, it's an interesting conversation and one that I think is the attraction of a person in a situation like what you're in. Because obviously, rightly so in so many respects, you go to a GP and they'll have certain treatments for certain illnesses and in many cases, they'll work. But in many cases, in my own experience, in those of my family and friends, they'll go there for what seems to be a relatively simple or frustrating little problem. They'll get diagnosed.
they'll go through the prescription and notice that, hey, a lot of what I've just been told or recommended has made absolutely no impact. So I'm interested in that combination of, I guess, a more holistic view, things that actually looks at the toxins, looks at the stressors, looks at the environmental factors, rather than just a one size fits all kind of tablet. So I know this is a field of yours that you're more specialized in. You've got a broader approach, I think, than...
what so many of the GPs that many of us go to for these problems seems to have. But in terms of the toxins, now I know you go through this in a lot more detail in your book, the toxins is one which I think is completely ignored, misunderstood, not known about. When you're talking about toxins, what are you talking about?
Akil (03:54.597)
Yeah, so there's different categories of toxins. There are things like heavy metals, mercury, lead, and so forth. There are pesticides, which can be found in the food, can be avoided if you choose more organic. And then there's environmental pollutants, things that show up in the water, in small quantities in foods.
things like endocrine disrupting chemicals that can show up in our personal care products, lotions and creams that we apply to the body every day and they get absorbed through the skin. And even in household, air, indoor air in some studies has been shown to be more contaminated than outdoor air because of things in the home that are off gassing and mold spores or other cleaning chemicals and so forth. And
So I think all of these together, you know, each, like an individual toxin is likely not going to be acutely harmful, but when you're combining dozens or hundreds of these, you know, a couple of studies have found the average person has more than a hundred measurable toxins in their blood. Then you start getting those synergistic negative effects, which are very hard to study, but we can see the effects of it.
tyson (05:11.514)
Yeah, I'm in the process of having a few amalgam feelings removed from like the early 2000s or so. I'm not sure if you've got much to speak to about that, but I decided to do a little bit of research because obviously, I mean, my health story goes back a long way, like all of ours, but I always thought I was a relatively healthy kid. And I look back now at my lifestyle as a 14-year-old kid and
It was that 99% fat free diet. Everything that we ate, it was healthy if it was fat free, supposedly. And so I opened my cupboard and it was fruit bars and it was muesli bars and it was cereals and it was yogurts and it was delicious. And I was like, look how healthy I am. And I could never understand why it was that I'd go to a dentist and he was like, hey, you need six new fillings. And so I'm in the process now of, I'd been learning a little bit about amalgam fillings. And I think it's mercury is the toxin that it contains or the metal that it contains.
Akil (05:38.064)
Ah.
Yes. Yeah.
Akil (05:45.324)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Akil (05:55.709)
Yeah.
tyson (06:04.278)
And I'd heard a lot about some of the negative side effects that this could have on, you know, brain health and a whole range of other factors. Can you speak to that at all? Like, is that something that I should be concerned about and you should go and get sorted?
Akil (06:11.527)
Yes.
Akil (06:18.117)
Yes, absolutely. I think the dental profession has been slowly shifting as well, just like all of our other understanding in terms of using less of mercury amalgams and switching more to composite or inert materials. I think it depends on the person. If it's maybe just one or two that are not posing an issue, maybe it's fine. But if there are...
multiple fillings, and then certain people are more sensitive to the release of mercury from those fillings over time, then it can be an issue. So yeah, I definitely am glad you're working with a more holistic dentist and they have approaches to replace and repair those fillings because mercury, as it builds up in the body, can have neurological effects. It's a neurotoxin. It impacts the brain. It can cause brain fog, fatigue, and other neurological symptoms.
Even in one published case in the literature, there was a patient with multiple sclerosis who was found to have high levels of heavy metals, mercury, and then she went through a chelation therapy and it actually put her into remission, whereas like medications and other things had not been able to. So the effects of heavy metals, yeah, can really accumulate over time. So I'm glad you're looking into that.
tyson (07:38.05)
Awesome, so interesting. That was gonna be my follow-up question. Once you've actually dealt with the feelings, is there a way that your body can actually get rid of, get like excrete this kind of stuff? And I often wonder as well, I still take part in a marathon runner or distance runner. Really interested in going out, running long distances and swimming and just doing these events where naturally you're gonna be sweating quite regularly. Like, is that one of the ways that your body's actually getting rid of these toxins? Like, what are some effective ways to actually
Akil (07:43.653)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (07:48.304)
Yes.
Akil (08:03.626)
Mm-mm. Yep.
tyson (08:05.922)
Obviously after you've addressed some of the things that are in your home, if you're on a process of going, all right, well, clearly I've been exposed to it, I'd love to eliminate the exposure, but also try and give my body an opportunity to recover, rejuvenate. What are some practical steps from that standpoint that you can take to get your body back to a healthier foundation to work from?
Akil (08:09.433)
Yes.
Akil (08:19.93)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (08:27.177)
Yes. So I think we shouldn't forget about the basics, like drinking enough water. A lot of my patients are dehydrated. So the kidney plays a key role in filtering toxins, so making sure you're drinking plenty of water every day, the hydration is important. And then elimination and healthy bowel movements are key because your liver packages toxins into the bile, which ends up in the stool. And it's meant to be excreted every day. That's part of your daily detox. And so
If you're struggling with that, then that's an area that definitely is good to work on. And then there's also the lymphatic system, which is important for moving lymph fluid throughout the body, which can carry toxins and infections out of the body. Any kind of movement will help with the lymphatics, yoga, walking, any type of physical activity. And then the final thing, which I'm a big fan of, is sweating, because through sweat, they've actually found many of these toxins are preferentially excreted.
So things like all the heavy metals, pesticides, and endocrine disrupting chemicals. There was an interesting study from Canada where they compared those who were sweating from exercise to those who were sweating in a sauna. And they actually found differences. So the sweating in a sauna was actually better than from exercise for the clearance of toxins. And they theorized that that's because
A lot of these toxins are stored in our subcutaneous fat just below the skin. And when the body's heated externally from a sauna, steam room, anything like that, then it's easier for those toxins to be excreted through the sweat. Of course, I'm a huge fan of exercise. I think that's a game changer. But it's not a duplicate to do both. Be very physically active and then a couple of times a week go to a sauna or steam room and do that sweating as well because the benefits are different.
tyson (10:19.962)
Yeah, so a couple of times a week would be a good place to start with access to a sauna and then for someone who has no idea, I've never really used sauna that much. I've become interested like I have become interested in ice baths and things. They just seem to be quite hot topics in many fields at the moment. I can see why I actually had a friend around the corner from me just have a sauna installed in his backyard fairly recently and I was asking him some questions at the gym the other day. But in terms of how long you should actually
Akil (10:21.921)
Yeah. Yes.
Akil (10:42.27)
Oh nice.
tyson (10:49.122)
kickstart your program in a sauna. Like how long are you looking at there?
Akil (10:53.777)
Yeah, so I always tell people, you know, start slowly, 10, 15 minutes, make sure you drink plenty of water. You might benefit from taking electrolytes, you know, afterwards. And then you can start up working up to 20, 30 minutes twice a week, so you're getting about an hour a week. In the studies done from Finland, where sauna use is very popular.
You know, two to three times a week seems to be a great way to get a lot of heart benefits, reducing risk of heart disease, promoting longevity. And those who do more, like if you go up to four to five times a week, they had even a bigger reduction, like 40% reduction in risk of heart disease. So there's really, I don't think there's much of a limit in terms of how high, the more you do, probably the more helpful it's going to be. But starting working up to twice a week, you know, 20 to 30 minutes is a good minimum.
tyson (11:46.502)
You sure? Is that something that's a part of your health and fitness routine?
Akil (11:50.761)
Yes. In fact, after doing the research for my book, I invested in a home sauna, a portable home. So it's not really like a fancy one. It's a portable one, which is a couple hundred dollars. It's a simple tent with a foldable chair. You sit inside the tent and you zip yourself up and then just inside of the tent is heated. Your head just sticks out above it. But it does the job. It heats up the body, sweat. And yeah, I've been using that regularly. I really love the way it makes me feel.
tyson (12:19.354)
Yeah, awesome. It's funny. I am a separate friend to the one that I just spoke about. So the one I just mentioned, he's got the legit one. It was carried in by a crane over his backyard. But another friend of mine, we spent some time with a few weeks ago, he has the exact one that you're speaking about 300 bucks from Amazon. He goes, mate, honestly, like you get 20 minutes into a sauna routine in this tent, and you get the workout you want, or you get the sweat that you want, which is
Akil (12:26.773)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. Okay.
tyson (12:44.846)
It's good to hear, because I had seen a couple of them on Amazon and just assumed based on the way they looked, they look so different to the traditional ones that they probably weren't going to be as effective. But in terms of what you're getting out of it, it's exactly what you need.
Akil (12:46.014)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Akil (12:57.645)
Yes, exactly. I think, you know, any type of heat to the body, so for people who don't have a sauna, even in doing a hot bath, like sitting in a bathtub, really with as hot water as you can tolerate, I think, you know, that's probably not the same as on but you're getting something you're getting some benefit. And a hot tub is, you know, better than nothing, but it doesn't really heat your body enough, compared to a sauna.
tyson (13:26.102)
Yeah, that's so interesting. I never even really thought about the option of a hot tub being something. So I had a little bit of a bug last week. I don't know if you call it this in the States, but we call it the man flu here in Australia, where I just had a little bit of a fever for whatever reason. First time in a long time, some tummy troubles, and I was laying in bed sweating, and I was craving a hot bath, and I was talking to this friend at the gym the other day, and he was saying he had the same thing. And it's interesting that some form of heat.
Akil (13:31.225)
Yeah.
Akil (13:37.397)
Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah
Hmm.
Akil (13:48.325)
Hmm.
Akil (13:52.219)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (13:54.882)
whether it's just the air or actually exposing yourself or immersing yourself, I should say, in the water is real beneficial to at least temporarily like alleviating that fever. I got out and I was like, okay, that was exactly what I needed. But you're seeing interesting, isn't it? Because you combine, it seems like, for lack of a better expression, maybe a little bit of the East in the terms of Ayurveda and a little bit of the West in terms of just that, what do you call it? Medicine, like the approach to medicine.
Akil (13:59.729)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (14:09.42)
Yeah.
Akil (14:17.729)
Yes.
Akil (14:23.949)
Yes. Yeah.
tyson (14:24.95)
But it is a really unique combination, I think. Those fields in many scenes seem to be mutually exclusive. You go to one if you want the medicine, you go to one if you're a bit of a hippie, at least that's how it is in Australia. And so when you have a guy in your situation who's combining the two fields, obviously your understanding of each is complimented. And I find it more helpful speaking to a person like that, because the idea of taking a bit more of a helicopter approach to...
Akil (14:36.661)
Right.
tyson (14:52.262)
all areas of your life in terms of what might be able to benefit your health. It seems like a smarter place to start, taking into consideration all the factors. But I was just curious to find out how you actually found your way there. Which scene did you start in? What's been the response to the worlds that you delve in?
Akil (15:06.565)
Oh, yes. Yeah. So we in the US call it integrative medicine, you know, where you're combining conventional medicine as well as holistic or alternative therapies. And, you know, I'm not opposed to Western medicine because I you know, prescribe drugs when indicated medications can be life saving.
If I ever got in a car accident, I wouldn't want to go to an Ayurvedic doctor, take me straight to the ER. There's a place for both. I think where holistic therapies excel is really chronic disease, where after that initial flare-up is resolved, what can you do on a proactive basis to prevent the illness from getting worse? That's where often conventional medicine doesn't have a lot of guidance.
cancer patients are told to eat whatever they want, just for example. But for me, yeah, I started out in biochemistry. That's what I studied in college and did research in clinical medicine and then began conventional medical training. And it was only through my own illness during medical school that I was kind of forced to explore other options and learn about Ayurveda and that really for the first time, but.
When I saw the impact on my own body, that's when I realized I really have to learn this for my future patients. So that's how I came to it.
tyson (16:33.994)
Yeah, so what were you going through yourself in college?
Akil (16:37.565)
Yeah, so it was basically kind of a mystery illness that with the chronic pain and I had unexplained weight loss, severe fatigue and back pain where I could no longer sit in a chair and attend classes anymore and I couldn't use a computer. So I had to actually stop my training, take a whole year off to try to recover because I was doing all the conventional treatments, anti-inflammatories, physical therapy and usual care.
And then I consulted an Ayurvedic doctor who diagnosed me with what's called a bata imbalance, which is VATA. Bata is one of the main forces in Ayurveda. And it's a completely different system where they believe that imbalances of these forces cause illness. And that was the first thing that actually fit all my symptoms. Nothing in Western medicine really fit. But...
It was kind of a textbook case of all the things seen in vata imbalance. And when I started addressing those, you know, with the proper diet, lifestyle, stress reduction, vitamins, herbs, natural things, then that's when my health really...
tyson (17:49.994)
Sure, and from an Ayurvedic perspective, what is a proper diet?
Akil (17:56.829)
Oh, yeah. So the great thing about Ayurveda is it's highly individualized. And so they believe that each person has a unique combination of the, you know, these what are called doshas or forces in the body. And there are three main ones and like bata, pita and kapha. And then the diet recommendations vary a lot depending on which is primary, which is secondary. You know, I write a lot about that in my books, but.
The great thing is it's completely individualized. So you might have the opposite recommendation as your neighbor if you have completely different body types. So for example, like Vata body type is recommended to kind of reduce raw foods and someone with a different, like for example, Pitta constitution is encouraged to have a lot of raw foods. So it really varies a lot, which is the strength of Ayurveda.
tyson (18:48.798)
Yeah, that is a real strength. That's one of the things that seems to come up in quite a lot of the conversations I have with people from the world of health on this podcast is just the overuse of generic recommendations for physical ailments. And one that I've heard you speak about, but I'd love to pick your brain a little more about is just the current trend of the carnivore diet and some of the crazy reports that we've seen on people's autoimmune disease. Jordan Peterson is a guy who comes to mind who's
Akil (19:00.677)
Yes.
Akil (19:15.589)
Yes.
tyson (19:18.146)
perhaps one of the most well-known people to use it, not necessarily claim that it's beneficial to everyone, credit to him, but I have heard him speak about the own, like the benefits to his own body and some of the depression and brain fog that he's had as a result of being on this carnivore diet. What are your thoughts on that as a, it seems like a trend at this point.
Akil (19:25.317)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (19:42.349)
Well, for sure. Yeah, I have many patients who are on the carnivore diet. And I think of it as under the category of elimination diets because we use those a lot in integrative medicine, whether you're eliminating gluten or eliminating sugar or, in this case, eliminating all plant products.
Elimination diets have the advantage of removing a lot of sensitivities, food sensitivities, food allergies, you know, this get taken out of the diet. So you're automatically bringing out inflammation. You're ideally incorporating healing foods, which can be, you know, the animal based foods, they can be healing. Like if you're having bone broth, if you're having plenty of nutrient dense foods, if you're having organ meats, you know, all these really nutrient rich foods. And then, you know, by bringing down all the...
inflammation through the elimination diet, you can really change symptoms and you can really, for some people, even with autoimmune disease, you can put things into remission. And yeah, and then with any elimination diet, my goal is always to try to broaden it out in the long run, because you might really benefit from it over a few weeks, few months. But then in the long term, I think you should always try to increase diversity in your diet, because
that's very important for your microbiome, the gut bacteria, and that's a key metric for longevity because the people who live the longest have the most diverse microbiome and that's caused by the most diverse diets. So in the long run, I think branching out on the diet is helpful, but I definitely see a role for any type of elimination diet and for some people, the carnivore diet for some time.
tyson (21:24.306)
Yeah, sure. You started to delve into the acronym of Tyga a little bit with the mention of toxins before. And obviously, like in terms of an actual, you know, bit more of a broad approach to what might be triggering someone's autoimmune disease, this is a really good place to start. But obviously, we're not going to go into the ins and outs of your book, you do a great job of, you know, explaining each chapter. But I thought perhaps as providing a little bit of a framework to people as to what it is that you are speaking about some of the things
Akil (21:29.519)
Oh yeah.
tyson (21:54.306)
that we can do to get started, or at least whet the appetite to learn a little more about this is perhaps walk through a couple more of the letters in the acronym of Tyger, because obviously each area plays a role in actually seeing someone's autoimmune health come back to hopefully, you know, 100%.
Akil (22:02.482)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (22:14.069)
Yes, absolutely. And what I've seen is that these five root causes drive inflammation, not just in autoimmune disease, but in other chronic diseases as well, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, a lot of our modern epidemics. So I think it's very important for everyone to look at these five factors. So the T is toxins, which we talked about. I is infections. So that could be any microbe.
bacterial, viral, fungal, parasite. My approach is more on making the body inhospitable to infections. So I think there are ways you can strengthen your immune system and then make your body environment, the inner terrain of the body inhospitable to these bad bugs. And one way to do that is actually making your intestinal pH somewhat acidic, because that has been.
proven to limit the overgrowth of bad bacteria, fungal species like candida. And so strategies to help acidify the intestine include intake of fermented foods. They have a lot of these beneficial acids, getting more plant fibers in the diet, getting prebiotic foods. So fermented foods are great, but I think prebiotic foods are less well-known, but maybe even more powerful. And that could include
things like artichokes and asparagus, leaks. There's a long list, but I think the, yeah, making the body inhospitable is my approach to the eye, the infection piece. And then the G is the gut. So the microbiome affects really every other system in the body, the immune system, the brain, the heart, pretty much inflammation throughout the body. So.
tyson (23:53.263)
Sure.
Akil (24:06.025)
keeping the microbiome really optimal is, health is key to maintaining health. And then the E refers to eating. And then in my approach, I break it down into the phase one and the phase two diet. So we talked a little bit about elimination diets, and that's what the phase one diet is. It's much more restricted, you're cutting out potentially a lot of foods, and then you're doing the reintroductions to then move towards the phase two diet.
So I walk people through systematically over eight weeks, how do you reintroduce foods? How do you keep a food journal? What symptoms do you track? Because people need a lot of guidance about that. It's not easy. And then in the long run, the phase two diet is more of a diverse, plant forward diet with a lot of these prebiotic foods as well as fermented foods. So I think that's really helpful.
And then the R refers to rest. So getting adequate sleep, managing stress, really working on that mind-body connection. I think that's one of the modern epidemics, our just busy lives and the level of stress we all deal with, often unconsciously. People, most of my patients, they don't realize they're under a lot of stress, but then as I'm talking to them, they kind of understand how all these factors are contributing. So yeah, I'm a big believer in...
mind-body practices, whether it be meditation, yoga, or mindfulness, or other things as well, therapy, guided imagery, there's a lot of different options out there.
tyson (25:42.958)
Sure, to rewind a little bit and go back to the pH levels or the blood acidity, this is something I've heard about briefly, a little bit. I mean, I've got apple cider vinegar sitting in the cupboard which is something that I'll take on a, not daily basis, but fairly regularly. And I started that habit years ago when I heard someone speak about this. And I thought, okay, that could just be a really good place to start. But the idea of fermented food in general through the rise of kombucha and completely blanking on the name, what's the German?
Akil (25:47.843)
Yes.
Akil (25:52.145)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Akil (25:59.267)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (26:07.414)
Yep.
tyson (26:14.346)
The cabbage fermentation of sauerkraut, sorry. Yeah, I completely blanked on it, but sauerkraut's obviously another one. So when we're talking about like that blood acidity, so disease flourishes in high acidic blood. Is that right?
Akil (26:14.405)
Oh, oh yeah, sauerkraut. Yeah. Yes.
Akil (26:30.349)
No, it's only the intestine. So it's not the blood pH, because blood pH is very tightly regulated. It doesn't really fluctuate. But intestinal pH varies quite a lot based on the diet. And yeah, because every organ has a different optimal pH. So we're talking only about the large intestine. But research shows, yeah, if you can get the pH down below 6.5, 6.0, that's really the optimal range. And
And then the main driver of that is what are called short chain fatty acids. So these are supposed to be produced by your gut bacteria. In a healthy gut, you know, the microbiome is abundant. There are plenty of these short chain fatty acids being produced, and that's what drives the pH down. And so the bacteria need all those prebiotic foods, the plant fibers to then produce those fatty acids, and that's the main driver.
tyson (27:27.986)
Yeah, so when you're talking about Ayurvedic medicine, when you're talking about more of a natural approach to medicine, I mean, it must be mind blowing to you. And I know the acronym, it's a little bit tongue in cheek, but the standard American diet, the SAD diet, it's very similar. I would bet good money that from what I've seen in Australia and what I've seen in America, the diets are very similar. Perhaps some of the serving sizes are a little bigger in the States, but I mean, we're not doing much better over here from what I can tell.
Akil (27:39.833)
Yes, right.
Akil (27:48.379)
Yes.
tyson (27:55.55)
So what are some of the really common foods that people are eating, which are just destroying any chance of actually being able to lay a baseline of an intestinal pH level, which is actually beneficial to being able to operate at full health? Is it the things you'd expect, like your high sugars and your high saturated fats, or there's some other little sneaky substances sneaking through the system, which are really destroying our ability to be able to maintain high...
Akil (27:55.569)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (28:24.38)
Hale Guza Health.
Akil (28:26.417)
Yeah, it's I think a very interesting area of research because more and more of these food additives are being linked to disturbances in the microbiome. So preservatives, emulsifiers, sweeteners, especially artificial sweeteners. So a lot of these things are really present in processed foods. So it's back to that kind of effect of highly processed packaged foods contain a lot of these negative ingredients.
Plus they often contain the added sugar and things that are inflammatory. So I think that there's the presence of some of these harmful foods. And then there's the absence of the things which can help, which are the prebiotic foods, the fermented foods. People in the US, they don't often have a taste for those, sour or pickled kind of foods, but yeah, those are also absent, but those are the foods which can help the pH.
tyson (29:20.91)
So what are we talking about in terms of differences? Because I've heard a lot about probiotics, but probiotics, what's taking place there that's different to probiotics?
Akil (29:25.627)
Yes.
Akil (29:29.993)
Yeah, so probiotics refer to the live bacteria, which can be found either in foods like fermented foods or probiotic supplements like capsules. And prebiotics are basically food for the bacteria. So they're basically fibers that feed those good bacteria. And prebiotic foods contain different categories of those prebiotics. So for example, there are polyphenols which feed your...
good bacteria, those include things like green tea, grapes, or red wine, any kind of berries. There's a lot of options there. And then there are the inulin-rich prebiotic foods like heart of choke, garlic, onion, asparagus, leeks, and so forth. There's resistant starch, which is another prebiotic, that broken down into three types.
one, two, and three. They're different grains, whole grains, certain legumes, beans that contain each of those three and so forth. So there's like many different categories of prebiotics. And yeah, and what I like to do, so in my book is to give people like dozens of choices in each category and explain that they don't need to eat all of them. It's not that you need to eat all of these 200 foods, but select some that you.
are not eating regularly and adding that in because you want to really try to vary your diet. You know, many of us get in the same habit eating the same 12 foods every week or whatever, which is convenient, but it's not ideal when it comes to the gut.
tyson (31:02.926)
Sure, and in terms of trying to follow seasons and things, like obviously with a worldwide market, we've got foods coming into Australia, which are clearly from last winter or last summer or sometime in between, and they seem to be available no matter what kind of the year it is. Do you have any personal preference when it comes to eating food in season? Is there much to show in terms of like the health benefits of eating in a way like that?
Akil (31:06.03)
Yes.
Akil (31:14.235)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Akil (31:28.717)
I think so, yeah. That's one thing Ayurveda highly recommends is eating locally, eating seasonally. So I suggest trying to shop at your local farmer's market, go directly to the farmers and finding out what's growing and eating seasonally that way is one of the easiest ways. You don't need to think about it. You just shop at a farmer's market and whatever is in season will be available.
tyson (31:52.054)
That's good, so you're doing that for yourself. You're going out to local farmers markets and have you got a preference on organic food as well?
Akil (31:54.809)
Yes. Yep.
Akil (32:01.222)
Yeah, I try to whenever possible. I think, you know, if there if a food has a thick skin that we're going to throw away, then typically we don't get organic like avocado or banana, for example. But whenever possible, it's definitely not like 100%. But I try to lean in that direction.
tyson (32:20.322)
Yeah, we're the same. I had a really interesting conversation on here with Dr. Ray Dorsey a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Dr. Ray Dorsey. I know too much about him, but he's a researcher in the field of Parkinson's disease. He was speaking about a number of the common factors which seem to correlate with an increased incidence of Parkinson's. He was speaking about, first of all, there was air pollution, but second of all, there was just exposure to paraquat, which is...
Akil (32:28.345)
Hmm. Uh, no.
Akil (32:45.484)
Mm.
Akil (32:48.65)
Oh wow. Yep. Yes.
tyson (32:49.594)
I don't know if you know what that is. It was an education to me, but for anyone listening who doesn't, it's essentially glyphosate, the lead ingredient in Roundup's more powerful older brother, from what I understand. And he was saying that it's, you know, in so many of our field sprayed crops. But he also explained as you did that there's really helpful ways around it. And that is like, if it's got a thick skin that you're going to throw away, don't stress too much.
The final one for anyone wondering was, like I can't remember what the name of it was, but it was a chemical found in so many dry cleaning areas or dry cleaning studios. A lot of people who'd been working there for a long period of time seemed to have increased incidents in that. But yeah, the conversation around organic food, like so many of the other things that we've mentioned, it seems to be coming to a bit more of a forefront in recent years. It's interesting to...
Akil (33:24.43)
Uh.
Akil (33:28.794)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (33:40.313)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (33:43.914)
I mean, this is a whole other direction that you could take the conversation, but it is mind blowing that 60 years ago, the cigarette companies were advertising the health benefits of smoking. And Dr. Ray Dorsey was saying that at the moment, some of these big producers of these farm fields sprays are promoting the, you know, not the health benefits, but the lack of health impact of some of the sprays that are on the food, but you dig a little bit deeper.
Akil (33:54.775)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (34:01.521)
Mmm.
tyson (34:11.338)
And I mean, the research seems to show that there's some pretty negative consequences as well. So in terms of, um, like, I don't know if you have a percentage or how passionate you are about it, but just, you would say, if you can eat organic, if you can't maybe try and wash it.
Akil (34:17.164)
Hmm.
Akil (34:27.081)
Yes, exactly. And I think that's a very interesting point that you've raised, which is important because as consumers, we live in a world where we're so exposed to marketing and we're really easily swayed by messages that are put out there. And many groups have taken advantage of that. And so starting with smoking and tobacco companies, but the same playbook has been used by many of the
manufacturers of ultra processed foods, in terms of how to market that to people. In fact, I was reading recently about how with the opioid epidemic in the US, we've had a really big problem with overuse of opioid or narcotic pain relievers. Same playbook, they found that many of these pharmaceutical companies, they had campaigns to minimize the negative perception or side effects of opioids.
and try to target vulnerable populations, veterans, young people, children, and really influence prescribers and physicians that way. So unfortunately, the same playbook is being used over and over again by so many of these different groups. So that makes it so hard for the average person to navigate.
tyson (35:40.942)
For sure, and it's interesting because you speak about the world of health and it does seem to be so murd and foggy and confusing and you'll speak to one expert and they'll say, hey, you have to be carnivore. And then you speak to another expert and they say, no, you have to be vegan. And then, I mean, what you're saying makes the most practical sense to me. Hey, have a bit of variety. I mean, the Blue Zones was a really great job for so many people with that degree in science for looking at, hey, what are the oldest, healthiest populations?
Akil (36:02.683)
Yes.
tyson (36:09.79)
in the world doing. Did you see that film or read that book by any chance? Yeah, it was really interesting to me that nothing that they were doing was that surprising. There was no carnivores, nothing. There was really any vegans. It was a lot of people doing a lot of the things that you're speaking about and also including, and I know with epidemiological studies, there's so many factors that could change the outcome, but it was really interesting to me to hear about the impact that faith had on certain community groups as well. Some of them
Akil (36:12.274)
Yes. Yep.
Akil (36:20.665)
Mm-hmm. Right.
tyson (36:39.77)
said that this was a really important part of the health aspect. I don't know exactly how that's measured, but it seems that regardless of whether you're speaking about religion or some form of spirituality, that connection with something higher than yourself seems to be a really important part of the health journey as well, or at least the meaning part of your life, I guess you could say.
Akil (36:49.584)
Yes.
Akil (36:55.793)
Mm-hmm.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, not only connecting to some type of purpose or meaning in life, I think that's important, but also social connection, you know, making sure you're in a community, you're not isolated, you're not dealing with loneliness. That's been shown to be a huge negative factor for health. So also an epidemic worldwide in terms of dealing with loneliness and isolation, but that as well, I believe this is critical.
tyson (37:26.486)
For sure. I went a little bit off the point that we were talking about there, but to rewind to one of the subjects we were speaking about in terms of just big companies' ability to be able to campaign or market the health benefits of their food, even in some instances where it's not really there. I find this a really frustrating and kind of disheartening factor around the health conversation. And I think that's what triggered that last little point was...
The confusion that is there due to the marketing budget that some of these companies have is really incredible. I can't help but think that the big meat world is celebrating this uptake of world carnival month and the health benefits of meat. It seems to be something that would really serve the interest of that. I mean, with the own business, I've got a running business and I know the challenge of trying to be...
honest with the feedback they're giving, if you know it's gonna cost you some money. I had a company reach out to me a while ago asking if I would be an ambassador for one of their sleep products. And it was an American one, FDA approved. And I mean, I took some capsules and I tried to do it and they were offering a nice pay pack and I really wanted to do it. But I mean, the fact was I'm a really good sleeper as it is and I took it and I was like, I can't notice.
Akil (38:21.713)
Hmm. Yes.
Akil (38:32.017)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (38:41.283)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
tyson (38:46.818)
that much of a benefit, but I could sense, and it took my discipline and maybe some of the discipline of my wife to go, hey, come on, if you're not being completely honest. But you can see how companies fall into the trap of going, hey, this is gonna make us a lot of money. Sure, we can find the silver lining.
Akil (38:53.36)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Akil (39:00.686)
Yes.
Akil (39:05.134)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (39:06.115)
for at least financial reasons. So I mean that psychology of that's a really interesting point, hey.
Akil (39:12.233)
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think with nutrition, people don't often realize the impact that industry and these big companies have on nutrition guidelines. Many of these large processed food manufacturers pay scientists to have certain opinions. And many of these scientists are forming these food guidelines. And that's how you get messages out in the media that processed foods can be out of the question.
part of a healthy diet, they're not necessarily harmful, as long as you're watching your overall calories, you know, on and on. So unfortunately, yeah, it really clouds the message because you hear these real experts who are have credentials, they're well qualified, and they're saying, you know, processed foods are not that bad for you. Soda is not that bad for you, and so forth. So it's really hard for the average person.
tyson (40:01.666)
Yeah, it's so interesting. In terms of the other factors, another one, I know I'm jumping around a little bit here, but there's so many interesting factors on the subject. I mean, a podcast like this could go for 10 hours and we'd still have weeks to discuss other options, as I'm sure you know better than anyone else. But you mentioned before about the lifestyle factors which are leading to stress. So whether that's, I mean, lack of sleep or difficult family, friendship situations, work situations.
Akil (40:10.135)
Yes.
Akil (40:13.913)
Right, right, yeah.
Akil (40:24.895)
Thank you.
tyson (40:28.162)
But I also heard you mention things like guided visualization, meditation, maybe prayer would be in that same element. I'm not sure what your actual protocol or your own journey is, but I'd be interested to hear a little more about what it is that you're doing to look after that part of your own life that those listening might find some value in.
Akil (40:35.214)
Yes.
Akil (40:48.113)
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, I think one thing is clear is there are many different ways to manage stress effectively for health benefit. And so people have to realize that it has to be something that you enjoy. So whether it be going out in nature, you know, being out in being out of the sun, or a practice like
prayer, meditation, visualization, hypnosis, even cognitive behavioral therapy, working with a psychotherapist, counseling can be really, really helpful. So I think that the main thing is, finding something that you enjoy, that you can do regularly. I'm a big fan of meditation, and there's more and more research about the brain effects of meditation, how it helps literally change the structure of your brain,
new brain cells in both gray matter and the white matter, and the hippocampus gets larger in those who meditate regularly. And that's the part of the brain that regulates stress. So that's why you get more resilient. And also meditation has been shown to reverse the, or prevent the normal age-related atrophy of brain cells. So what happens on typical aging is that the brain shrinks. You know, you lose cells every year. But in those who meditate, that effect is...
tyson (41:48.16)
Yeah.
Akil (42:06.625)
not seen. So it's kind of a protective effect on the brain for against the negative effects of aging. So I'm a big fan of that. But I think, you know, there are many paths to the mountaintop and people have to just see what works for them.
tyson (42:20.182)
So interesting. Do you know much about what's going on in the decrease in the brain size as we age? Is that like a combination of factors? Like you're not as invested in learning or is that simply an age related? I think that's such an interesting concept. I mean, it doesn't surprise me. I look at so many of the elderly people in my own life and their faculties aren't there in the way that they were 20 or 30 years ago. I mean, you can see it playing out and you put it down to old age, but I rarely think about the actual practical
Akil (42:33.709)
Yep. Yeah.
Akil (42:39.397)
Hmm.
Akil (42:47.074)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (42:49.514)
side of what's going on there. I'm not really thinking about the decrease in the size of their brain or the effectiveness of their brain function. When I think about that or notice it at least.
Akil (42:54.895)
Yes.
Akil (42:59.189)
Yeah, I think it's both factors, one factor being less engagement of the brain, you're retiring from work, you're not challenging yourself intellectually as much as you used to. And that is why brain exercises or learning a new language or learning an instrument in retirement has been shown to really be good for the brain. And the other piece of it is just normal age-related decline and death of brain cells, just like throughout the rest of the body.
So there is a slow normal loss of brain size, but meditation is one of the great ways to actually prevent that. So I think that's why meditation plus keeping the brain really active, that combination is so.
tyson (43:44.938)
Sure, and I know there's so many ways that people meditate, but when you're referring to the way you meditate, are you simply referring to a focus on your breath and sort of trying to, I guess, for lack of a better expression, disconnect from the emotional highs and lows that come through the thought?
Akil (44:02.121)
Yes, yeah, that's one of the ways that I practice it. And, you know, in my book, I described like five common techniques for meditation. There's different practices. There's breathing based practices, and then there's also more practices focusing on emotional or cognitive components. So there are many different ways I'll just like with other things to meditate. And main thing is, you know, I tell people always that the
point of meditation isn't to still your thoughts. And because so many people tell me, oh, I'm bad at meditation, or I can't do it, because I can't keep my mind still. And I tell them, well, that's not being bad at meditation. That is understanding the nature of the mind, because the nature of the mind is to produce thoughts. And the goal is not to completely still them, but just to be aware and then come back to whatever you're focusing on, breathing or part of the body or whatever it may be. So.
I think people sometimes you have to ask them what is their definition of meditation so that they don't feel they're like a failure and can't do it because they feel like they're not getting any benefit but that's not true at all.
tyson (45:04.159)
Huh.
tyson (45:10.19)
That is a really good point. I noticed that with nearly everyone, including myself when I first started meditation, that was my main objection. And that's something actually that I've probably let the ball drop a little bit on. I've got a three-year-old and a one-year-old boy at the moment. And I mean, naturally, since I've been trying to be a bit more of a hands-on dad, the availability of time in my day is a lot less than what it was three years ago. And I think if I'm honest, there's been certain things that I've probably dropped the ball on. And meditation's definitely...
Akil (45:16.218)
Bye. Yeah.
Akil (45:21.478)
Mm-hmm.
Oh yeah, sure, sure.
tyson (45:37.294)
one of those, but for about five or six years, I was practicing daily. And for the reasons that you've explained, I really noticed there was, um, a direct correlation between just how I handled stressful events in my day and their regularity of, of meditation. And perhaps I was actually thinking about this. I was, I was out running this morning and I'm like, Oh, gee, I feel like there's a real trigger in me at the moment where I'm riding the, uh, the rollercoaster of the emotional highs and lows. And perhaps it's just a little bit of atrophy in the
Akil (45:38.227)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (45:47.184)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Akil (45:54.138)
Yes.
Akil (46:03.525)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
tyson (46:07.258)
you know, the brain that I was developing through meditation. So I need to take an asterisk or put an asterisk next to that and make sure I get back on. It's also interesting the fact that you mentioned that there's a variety of ways to meditate. And I know, as you said, you've spoken about this in your book, but one thing that I notice in myself and so many people is this idea of analysis paralysis. There's so many great tools and strategies that you can apply, you know.
Akil (46:15.409)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (46:30.114)
Mm. Yup.
tyson (46:34.21)
whether it's in regard to your food or your mindset or exercise or family, or just literally insert any part of your life and there's a million ways that people recommend you can do different things. But so often the benefit comes in just deciding to choose one and actually creating a practice around that. Did you have any trouble getting to a point of going, okay, well, this is the actual meditation style for me, or if it wasn't meditation, perhaps there's another area of your life around diet or exercise that you've experienced, what it is that I'm trying to explain.
Akil (46:37.294)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (46:41.081)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (46:48.56)
Yes.
Akil (47:01.083)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (47:04.457)
Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. I think that's one of the challenges with our modern world is just the overwhelming abundance of choices. And I, you know, I have many patients struggling, struggling with that as well. I think that, yeah, mostly what I see is really in the area of diet, just because we, we have so many choices, we have so many differing voices that we're exposed to, you know, in the science in the media.
And so my patients are often just very confused, they don't know where to start, and therefore they just throw their hands up and eat whatever they feel like. And so, yeah, I think that is a very important issue in multiple areas.
tyson (47:48.874)
Yeah, so outside of sleep, outside of the various forms of meditation, I find exercise really beneficial in terms of a mental recovery. For me, it's a, my wife laughs at me because I often, a lot of people hate the idea of having to go out and exercise, but for me, it's just a, if I don't exercise, I'm not as happy, I don't feel as good. Like starting, as I mentioned, starting the day today with a run, I finish up and it's like my cells come alive and mentally I'm more ready for the day. But in terms of other ways that
Akil (47:59.281)
Oh yeah.
Akil (48:07.844)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
tyson (48:18.166)
rest can be developed. Have you got any recommendations? Because I'm not sure, I can't remember the exact numbers or dates, but essentially, and as I said, don't fact check me here, but I wanna say like the 30s or 40s, the average American was sleeping eight and a half hours a night. And in 2017, I think it was the average American sleeping six and a half hours a night. I can see there'd be some pretty obvious reasons, you know, access to.
Akil (48:37.765)
Hmm. Yes.
tyson (48:41.186)
the internet and movies and Netflix and whatever else might be going on, just the availability of light throughout all of their houses. It would obviously be a really big factor in that, but seemed mind-blowing that in 70 or 80 years, we could lose on average two hours of sleep a night and you think about the health impacts of that can't be great in terms of how it is that we're feeling, perhaps laying the foundation for why so many of our health elements of life are.
Akil (48:44.137)
Yep.
Akil (48:47.838)
Hmm.
Akil (49:03.417)
Hmm
tyson (49:09.058)
crumbling for many people, obviously. What else do you recommend? Or is there anything else that's a must have as a part of your life, your daily life in terms of mental, physical recovery outside of the obvious that we've just spoken about?
Akil (49:10.489)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (49:23.677)
Oh, yes. So I think for me, I share your view on exercise because I feel like the same way, you know, it really works as an antidepressant for me. And I feel that immediate, you know, upliftment of mood. And even though that was more recent in the past few years, you know, I was not always very physically active. But once I became more active, I really noticed the benefit and then I start to miss it if I go a day without, you know, moving and being active. So I totally relate to you on
on that one. And I think the topic of sleep is definitely one thing as well. For me, that was very important because, you know, in our medical training, we're basically skipping sleep for, you know, every a few days every week and being on call, staying in the hospital and doing that for years. And, and then coming out of that, it's quite hard to get into a regular routine and, you know, get prioritized sleep and
Yeah, so that was a struggle for me and took many years to get into the healthy pattern. And then now with the research on the benefits of sleep, I think it's amazing because I often tell people, if the single most powerful thing you can do for your health is getting an adequate night's sleep every night. And for many people, it's in that seven or eight hour range because there are some people who thrive on six hours of sleep, but not the average person. And...
It varies in terms of what the exact requirement is for hours of sleep, but I always tell my patients that if you wake up in the morning and you don't feel fresh and well rested, that means that you probably did not get enough sleep and use that simple guideline. So, yeah, I sometimes also recommend people use sleep trackers to get some more data about their sleep. Although I think there's a...
caveat there, sometimes people with this too much data, you know, then they start getting a, that has a negative effect, and then they're anxious because their sleep tracker told them they slept poorly, even when they slept well. And so you have to be careful there.
tyson (51:31.918)
Yeah, I had a mate come and stay with me in London a few years ago when I was living there and he slept on the floor of my little apartment. He woke up one morning and I don't know what it was he was tracking it with, but he had this big smile on his face. I was like, what are you so happy about? He goes, I just got a sleep PR. I go, what's a sleep PR? And he was just walking me through some of the numbers that he got with this particular sleep. And he was just pumped because the data suggested he got his best.
Akil (51:48.081)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (51:56.262)
Hmm.
tyson (51:58.07)
his best score essentially, which I thought was, a sign of the times at Rune with the availability of technology, but yeah, I really enjoy that. Like I liked the idea of actually being able to track it. I know that data, as you say, can be a little overwhelming for some people. Yeah, it's interesting. Have you heard much about or played much with the Aura Ring?
Akil (52:00.858)
Oh. Ha ha.
Akil (52:09.393)
Thanks for watching!
Akil (52:21.345)
Oh yeah, I haven't had that personally, but yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about using that to track different metrics.
tyson (52:29.042)
Yeah, I haven't had it either, but I'm always interested to know how it is. And this might be a subject for another guest, but I don't know how it is that these particular devices are tracking the effectiveness of the sleep. Has it got to do with heart rate or movement, or what are they actually looking for to monitor how effective that is?
Akil (52:45.289)
Um, I think, I think both, yeah, they look at your heart rate and heart rate variability. They look at skin temperature. They look at movement, um, you know, combination of those things.
tyson (52:58.378)
Yeah. What kind of exercise are you doing? What triggered your own exercise routine? You said just a few years ago was when it kickstarted.
Akil (53:04.193)
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, just, I think it was one of those New Year's resolutions that then just stuck with me. And yeah, I really got into resistance training, incorporating weight training, and which I had not done for many years, and, and then started adding in some cardio as well. And, yeah, so basically, pretty simple. But that combination seemed to really work for
tyson (53:30.978)
And you're doing one version of that throughout each day of the week? Yeah, awesome. One thing I wanted to ask you, you mentioned earlier about the artificial sweeteners, some of the emulsifiers that's in so many parts of their food. The one area of my own lifestyle where I can see these is I take sodium tablets from time to time after a long run. Like if I've sweat fairly significantly over the course of a 70 or 80 minute run, I might come home, have a sodium tablet.
Akil (53:34.157)
Yes, try to.
tyson (54:00.578)
And they're relatively sweet. It says it's sugar-free, but you look at the ingredients and there's sweeteners and emulsifiers and the bad things that you say, you probably should do your best to avoid. From an Ayurvedic perspective, is there any effective way outside of just like a salt water that could be good for athletes who are out there doing fairly intense physical activity who are trying to replace the salts and things that they're losing when they're out there running or?
Akil (54:09.893)
Mm-hmm.
Akil (54:19.801)
Mm-hmm.
tyson (54:28.343)
you know, cycling, swimming, whatever else is they're doing.
Akil (54:31.409)
Oh, well, I'm a big fan of coconut water, you know, because of the potassium, magnesium, other minerals. And for sodium, yeah, I think just plain old sea salt in a bottle of water is a good way, you know, it's, it's pretty much, it's pretty much equivalent. But yeah, for the other minerals, I really like coconut water.
tyson (54:34.838)
Yeah.
tyson (54:52.642)
for sure. I mean, we're starting to get to the tail end of the conversation, but I thought maybe as a way to hand it over, I've obviously got the book linked in the description to this episode for anyone who'd like to dig deep and actually find out more about the book, learn more about the subjects that we're talking about. Obviously, we're only just scratching the surface, but in terms of, you know, leaving the audience with any particular message or point of encouragement, is there anything that we haven't spoken about that you think the audience could consider in terms of not just...
autoimmune health, but just general health and, you know, bodily function.
Akil (55:24.269)
Mm hmm. Oh, yeah, I'm trying to raise awareness about the negative effects of sitting and prolonged sitting because, you know, that's something we all do, especially with the pandemic, more people working from home. And there's more and more research about the really harmful effects of prolonged sitting, not just on, you know, metabolism, body weight, and so forth, but even on inflammation, because
those who sit for prolonged periods were found to have higher blood markers of inflammation. And then also sitting, it does actually, so if you exercise every day and you're very physically active, but you also sit for eight hours a day, you actually don't get the benefits of the exercise because it's like the prolonged sitting cancels out the benefits of exercise in many areas. So
So I tell people to do both, be active, but then also try not to sit. Use a standing desk, try to get your 10,000 steps, try to mix it up, walking, standing, sitting, and so forth. So I think we should really give attention to the topic of sitting because that is not just bad for your posture and all that, but really for inflammation and metabolism and longevity.
tyson (56:43.442)
Sure. So in terms of on a day-to-day basis, when you're at the office or wherever it is that you're doing your work, how are you varying between the different structures of, you know, getting your work done? You've just mentioned between standing, sitting or something in between.
Akil (56:55.649)
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I pretty much I just have an adjustable workstation. So I stand for most of the day and then you know, once in a while sit but just say, yeah, I just tried to spend most of the day standing in the office.
tyson (57:09.306)
Okay, so that's foundational posture for you is standing up. That's funny, I've got you on a, right now, I've got the laptop set up on a, what is an adjustable desk as well. So I'm gonna have to keep that going. But Dr. Akhil, man, I really appreciate you making the time to come on, I was really looking forward to this conversation. I've heard so much about what you've had to say, I've been really inspired by you. So it means a lot that you come on here and spend some time answering questions and just going back and forth with me. So thank you very much.
Akil (57:13.127)
Yep.
Akil (57:19.677)
Oh, perfect. Yes, yes.
Akil (57:39.425)
Oh, my pleasure, Tyson. Yeah, thank you for inviting me.
tyson (57:42.258)
Awesome, I'll leave you there. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for tuning in. I'll see you all again next week. And I'll cut that off there. Man, that was a great conversation. Thanks so much, that was a lot of fun. I hope you didn't mind the random directions I was taking us, but there was so many interesting conversations, there were so many interesting topics. Ha ha. Awesome. What do you got on for the rest of your day now?
Akil (57:49.957)
OK, perfect. Yeah, likewise. Oh, not at all. No, that was great. Yeah, yeah, yes. Right, yeah, no, I think it flowed well. So yes, yes. Not much. Yeah, I think my daughter should be coming.