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The Resilient Path Podcast with Kyle Draper features powerful, honest conversations with people who have faced life's toughest challenges and found the strength to keep moving forward.
From trauma, loss and addiction to mental health struggles, setbacks and unexpected life-changing moments, each episode explores not only what people have been through, but how they found their way through it.
Through raw stories, hard-earned lessons and inspiring journeys, The Resilient Path reminds us that resilience isn't about avoiding adversity, it's about discovering the strength to rise, rebuild and keep going.
Everyone faces adversity. The question is: How will you respond?
And you're going to kill yourself if you do not find help or find something to help you get out of this. Cause Kyle, every day I was wrestling with suicide. Day I was waking up, rest. There are times I wake up in the morning, Kyle, I just want to go back to sleep because going to sleep was the only piece I had.
Kyle:Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Resilient Path Podcast with Kyle Draper. I'm Kyle Draper. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode. I'm super excited to talk to my guy, Kevin John.
Kyle:I'll introduce him coming up in just a little bit. But when you are done listening to this episode, the hope is that you will come out feeling inspired. You will feel like you are not alone. You'll also feel like, you know what? I'm gonna live a happier, healthier, and more resilient life.
Kyle:I'm so excited for this episode because this guy doesn't know it, but I've admired him from afar and not from your your on camera stuff, Kevin John. We know you're a talented broadcaster, but the thing I like about you the most, my man, you are uniquely yourself. Great guy. His resume reads long, sports broadcaster at ABC ten in Sacramento, adjunct professor at Cosumnes River College out here in the Sacramento area, big brother. I gotta talk about that.
Kyle:Mental health advocate. Michael Jackson fan probably got the best moonwalk in the game outside of Michael himself. Thanks for coming on, man. I really appreciate you.
Kevin:Well, first of all, Kyle, thanks for that warm introduction there. I feel like I have a lot to live up to.
Kyle:Y'all, you do. You actually do. You know, it's, it's exciting, man, because, know, the reason why I started this podcast is because a lot of times When we talk, not just me and you, I'm just talking people in general, it's a lot of superficial talk, you know, but a lot of us are suffering behind closed doors, including myself. And one thing I admire you about you is you've been open about depression, some of your challenges, and we're gonna get to that coming up in just a little bit.
Kyle:But first, let's let the people at home know a little bit more about you. Stockton, California kid. Right? Tell tell me about that. What's what's a young Kevin John looking like in Stockton?
Kevin:Oh, I don't know if
Kevin:I can disclose all the young Kevin John in Stockton. You know, I'm trying to keep this for a family show.
Kyle:Alright. You
Kevin:know, it's it's interesting you say that because I am born and raised in Stockton. For those who do not know, that's about an hour south of Sacramento. And growing up in Stockton in the late eighties, early nineties, Stockton was going through a lot. I mean, Stockton's still going through
Kevin:a lot.
Kevin:A lot of times people, when they hear of Stockton now, it's usually for bad stuff, negative stuff. We've had corruption that's gone on there. The city filed for bankruptcy. Crime rate was through the roof. Forbes Magazine voted Stockton the most miserable city in the nation to reside in.
Kevin:Absolutely. So you mentioned how happy and positive I am. That's weird. That's ironic coming out of the most miserable place in the nation of, in our nation. So, Stockton unfortunately has gotten a bad rep just historically.
Kevin:And I, and I'm not here to say that all of this stuff that people has heard about Stockton is false. There, there is sadly some validity to that. There sadly is some, you know, substantial, you know, significance that comes from those claims, which is unfortunate. But to get back to your question, coming out of Stockton was kinda challenging, Kyle, because when you come from a big city, whether that's, you know, Atlanta, LA, New York, Chicago, Philly, Boston, when you come from a big city, you're exposed to all different kinds of careers, avenues, paths, vocations, things that you could do for yourself coming out of Stockton. There's not much there.
Kevin:There really is not much. So most people growing up with me aspire to be one of two things, a rapper or an athlete. I would hate to say that, but that is the truth.
Kevin:Because that's really all that we were exposed to there in the city of Stockton. You know, we weren't really exposed to other opportunities that you see in bigger cities. And the city was going through just a lot of struggle to say the least. And I'm not sitting here to talk down on Stockton. I love Stockton.
Kevin:Anyone who knows me knows I bleed Stockton. I'm back there whenever I can to volunteer to give back, to help out, to empower the youth over there. I bleed Stockton and my high school shout out to Bear Creek High School. But yeah, Kyle, so growing up, it was, it was challenging because I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't know what I was going to be when I grew up.
Kevin:I was not really, I knew was I wanted to be alive when I grew up. Yeah. Especially seeing all the violence and friends of mine, friends of mine who have passed away due to violence, drug overdoses. You know, I can sit here and just go down the, the ringer of all that. So I just knew I wanted to be alive, but I didn't really know.
Kevin:Not much direction there.
Kyle:You know, it's interesting because your story and mine are pretty similar. You know, I did grow up in one of the big cities, Philadelphia. Okay. But rapping, playing basketball, drug selling, those were some of the career paths, you know, growing up on the block. And that's why I wanted to have you on this show because, you know, we're called The Resilient Path.
Kyle:There had to be points growing up where you had to be resilient. You could have went left and made the wrong turn, but you decided to go right. So let's talk about those early beginnings there in Stockton. Family atmosphere. What was that like, growing up at home?
Kevin:Well, you know, I do want to say I am blessed to, you know, I grew up in a household where I had two parents, were educated, had advanced degrees, and education was always something that my mother emphasized growing up. You know, she used always say, there's, there's grades that you have to make for the team, the football team, track team, basketball team, And then there's grades you have to make in my household. And she was like, you have to, because I think it was just a 2.0 in order to play sports.
Kyle:Right. 2.0 back then.
Kevin:She was like in my house, a 2.0 doesn't cut it. You gotta be higher than that. So, you know, I am blessed to have two parents who really emphasize and instilled good traits in me when I was young. But my parents did split when I was young, when I was, I think it was around eight years old when they split and my father moved out and, me and my brother were raised by my mother. Now my father, even though he moved out, he was still active in my life.
Kyle:Okay.
Kevin:He was still present. It wasn't one of those fathers who, you know, split and you hear from him, you know, once in a blue moon,
Kyle:once would you make it right? When you make it big, like, yeah, yeah,
Kevin:yeah, yeah. You know, my dad was still very much active. He had moved to Lodi, which was not, another city, which was close to Stockton. I would still be able to see him, you know, once I think it was once a week or once every other week that I would go out and see him. So he was still active in my life, but it still was challenging because it was me, my brother, my mom, you know, that that's kind of what it is.
Kevin:My mom was working a lot because she was trying to support us. So, you know, unfortunately there were outside influences in Stockton that did kind of raise or direct my brother and I, whether that was gangs, whether that was drugs, you know, all of those things, because when you're exposed to all of that, even as a parent, there's only so much you can do if you're working a lot or or whatnot. So that, that, that was challenging, but I, I'm sorry. When I answered your question, you said, what was it that got me on the correct path? Cause I could have went right and I went left or what have you.
Kevin:My mother got my brother and I into this program. It's called Jack and Jill of America.
Kyle:Yes. I know
Kevin:about Jack and Jill.
Kyle:My mom and dad told me about Jack and Jill. Yes.
Kevin:Wow. She
Kyle:still talks about Jack and Jill. My mom who's, what, 75 she'll be this year still talks about Jack and Jill.
Kevin:Wow. So for those out there who are unfamiliar with Jack and Jill of America, it's basically an organization for African Americans, and it's an organization that promotes education, empowerment. They have seminars. They, promote, you know, a healthy family atmosphere. And there were these things called teen conference.
Kevin:Right? So teen conference, basically, it was like this. It was a weekend conference for teenagers for Jack and Jill that you would go to on a college campus. And some people would say it was like the pre freak Nick. You don't know what freak Nick is.
Kevin:Just look it look it up, but it was basically a weekend where you went away. You were on a college campus, stayed in a dormitories and they would have a series of seminars, classes. And it would just be all about, you know, going to college, practicing healthy sexual habits. They would talk about real life stuff, financial literacy. So it was all of these things.
Kevin:When I came back from my very first team conference, Kyle, this was, I think I was 14 years old when I came back from my very first team conference and was exposed to all of that. That's when I knew, wow, there is more to Stockton. There are things out there. There's colleges, there's HBCUs, there's opportunities. So I would say that was a defining moment when I knew, okay, there's more to the city of Stockton.
Kyle:You know, the purpose of this podcast obviously is to inspire others because I'm sure there are kids home right now, maybe listening to this, that we're in the same positions you and I are. And so how did you, was it your parents? Was it mom? Because when you're walking down the street in the neighborhood, when you're hanging out with your friends who are doing dirt, I did that, you know, but when it was time for them to go out and do dirt, I said, all right guys, I'll see you next time. I'll catch you tomorrow.
Kyle:How did you navigate that growing up in your neighborhood?
Kevin:You know, it's interesting. I saw what happened to a couple of my friends, not a couple of friends who were North Side. Well, I'm not going say that the clique in Stockton, but, they were Crips. And I remember, I believe this was my freshman or sophomore year. They all had a serious run-in with the law.
Kevin:I won't disclose what they did, but I remember that scared the living bejesus out of me when I saw what happened to them, seeing them get incarcerated, seeing their life literally be thrown away. And I just remember these were two close friends of mine. And I remember looking at that and I was like, if I continue hanging around this circle and hanging around these individuals, guess what? That's going to be me in two years sitting in a, a five by seven gel cell, with, with nothing to say for myself and throwing it all away. And I think it was being exposed to situations like that.
Kevin:That made me realize Kyle, man, I I'm made for more than this. There's something else more that I want to do with this. And then also realizing that my parents, even though that they had split and, you know, it was challenging for us at times. I knew that they wanted more out of me and I knew that they spent a lot of time instilling good morals and values into me. And I didn't want to let them down and I didn't want to let God down and I didn't want to let, you know, people who were cheering for me down because even though I was involved in bad things at times, I always realized I did have a village of people who were still cheering me on and still really felt, you know, one of them was my high school track coach, Todd Osterman at Bear Creek and my freshman year, he was somebody who just really took on a mentoring role for me and made me realize some of my gifts and.
Kevin:Being having that exposure and being able to, see, find someone who was like, I believe in you, Kevin, you can do amazing things. Maybe it's not on the track, but still you have been equipped to do amazing things. So it was, it was that mentor, you know, my, my, my drama teacher, Karen Minnick, you know, there was a few people who actually kind of saw some things in me and inspired. So I answer your question. I'd say it was a combination seeing friends of mine who got incarcerated locked up, knowing that my parents wanted more for me.
Kevin:I didn't want to let them down. And then having mentors when I came into high school, came into my life and made me realize, you know, that I can do something.
Kyle:Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, going back to my child, it's sort of similar. My parents and my mom's decision to send me to a different school in fifth grade.
Kyle:Kevin, there's the neighborhood school Pennypacker. I went to shout out to Pennypacker. That was my elementary school. I did, first through fourth there, but I went to Masterman in Philadelphia and you talked earlier about seeing a whole different world. Well, me, all sorts of races, colors, creeds, that sort of opened my life.
Kyle:But one of my challenges was, all right, I'm going to this great school, but then I'm coming back to the neighborhood, you know? And, and, know, the people were great, but for me, it felt sort of. What's my identity at the time. Got my friends here and, and mastermind, all different colors, white, Asian, whatever. But then I'm coming back here to Walnut Lane in Philadelphia, hanging with Tyco and Corky and everything like that, you know?
Kyle:And so did you how did you, I guess, you know, were you sort of similar? I'm a hang with you, but when it comes time to do the real dirt and and were they accepting of that? Were they okay with that?
Kevin:You know, thank you for disclosing that.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kevin:Because you you you said something in that that resonated with me. Identity. Right. And certainly because, Kyle, interesting enough for elementary school, my mother and my dad sent me to this gate school that was in Lodi, which is outside of Stockton. I was the only black kid there in my class.
Kevin:Not in the school because my older brother went there. So I think we were both the only two black kids there, but I went there for elementary school. That wasn't the school in my neighborhood. The school in my neighborhood was Creekside elementary school. Everybody went.
Kevin:So that was a challenge for me initially because there were the friends, there were the friends I had in my neighborhood who went to Creekside and Delta Sierra middle school. And then there was me going to this other school in another city that was for a gate program for gifted students. There was no one there who looked like me. So you talk about identity struggles. That was me because I was here at this and I liked Henderson.
Kevin:I, you know, never had any issues there. They, they treated me well. I still, to this day, I still have friends, from Henderson elementary school, but I struggled because I was like, yes, here I am with these kids, you know, throughout this, throughout my school days. And then I'm coming back to Stockton in the evening with my other homies in the neighborhood. And it was hard because I wanted to kick it with my homies, But I realized that that gate school and being exposed to these students at that gate school was good for me as well, because everyone you talk about feeling like you're the dumbest person in the classroom.
Kevin:I mean, these kids, their parents were surgeons, right? Doctors, judges, all of this stuff. And they were super smart. And I think it was the first time in my life. I really felt like inadequate or, or, or unequipped to handle because Everyone in that class was brilliant.
Kevin:Like, you know, some of them went on to become brain surgeons and all this stuff. And then you had me who was there. So I was like, I don't know if I just like checked the box for the DEI quarter
Kyle:back there.
Kevin:They were like, you know,
Kyle:we got one.
Kevin:We got one. Kevin, you reached the quota. Okay. We got our token black kid in there. So I, there were times I asked myself, I was like, man, do I belong?
Kevin:Did I deserve this opportunity? Because, but it was hard getting back to what you're saying because I wanted to kick it with the guys in the hood. I wanted to kick it with the homies because I felt that was the right thing for me. So I struggle with my identity because I was like, woah, woah, woah, who am I? I want to be the Kevin who kicks it with my homies.
Kevin:Right. But I also see these students at this gate school that I'm going to and the benefits of that and the wonderful lives that they're living and seeing what education can truly do for you. So I was conflicted because the homies weren't necessarily excelling in school. They wanted to do other things, smoke weed, holler at women, stay out late, drink alcohol and all that other stuff. And I want it to be cool.
Kevin:I want it to be cool with the homies. Yeah. The kids at the gate school weren't doing those things. They were involved in like science Olympiad, right. Or, or rowing programs and stuff like that.
Kevin:I'm like, that's not cool. I can't come back to the hood and be like, Oh yeah. I had science Olympiad practice today or whatever. So it was hard because I wanted to kick it with the homies, but I also knew that that gate program was good for me. So it was really, really difficult.
Kevin:And I struggle with my identity a lot.
Kyle:Yeah. I wanna come back to that coming up in a minute because, you know, even at my age right now, I'm 51. I look back to those years and it's still impacting me to this day when it comes to identity. We'll talk about that coming up in a minute, but, know, growing up in Philly to your point, I gotta give my mom and dad a huge shout out because they sort of kept me on the straight and narrow. You know, there's this old line that, you know, you had to be home when the street lights came on.
Kyle:Yeah. My street light was my dad's voice. Like my dad had this booming voice and when it was time to come home, he wouldn't come looking for me. He wouldn't come try to find me. He stick his head out the door and say, Kyle.
Kyle:And it was like the bat signal came out. Like I'd be two miles away, but I heard his voice and I was like, sorry, guys. I gotta go. So shout out to mom and dad Draper for keeping me on the straight and narrow. You know, did you ever partake or I don't wanna use the words to come to some of the Yeah.
Kyle:The things, but, you know, how was things for you? You know, did you ever dabble in it, dip your toe in it
Kevin:a little bit? You know? I can be real
Kyle:with me, Kevin. Hey, this is, we are being vulnerable. Big fellow. We'd be a vulnerable here.
Kevin:I have go be vulnerable with you. It's funny you say, did you dip your toe in it or whatever? Man, I didn't dip my toe in it. I dove in it head first. Come on.
Kevin:You know, I would like to say, oh yeah, I tried to do it. Dove in it. Cause the thing was I wanted to be accepted so bad. I wanted validation. I wanted to be accepted by the homies.
Kevin:So if they were rolling up a joint, I would say, let me hit that first and all this. I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I was like, you know, but I, I, I did dabble. I succumb to, to, to, to drugs. I tried alcohol at an early age, women sex, all of those things.
Kevin:Was introduced to a lot of that stuff at a very early age. And why? Because I wanted to fit in. I wanted to be cool with the homies.
Kyle:That peer pressure is no man. You know, you want to be accepted. Right? Thank you.
Kevin:I don't want to be a square as they called it in there. Another name that I was called a lot was an Oreo and right. And for those who don't know, an Oreo is a black person who quote unquote acts white. Right. Which by the way, I still don't know what acting white is because I think if you talk proper and pull your pants up, I think that that's a wonderful thing.
Kevin:Could be anybody. Right. But the thing was, I did not wanna be, you know, labeled this square or this. So I did engage in a lot of things. I, you know, I remember smoking weed for the first time.
Kevin:I remember triking, trying alcohol for the first time, a black and mild, a cigarette, these things when I was young, like 11, 12 years old. Getting introduced to women and sex at a very young age, because I wanted to be cool and do what the homies were doing. So once again, I was letting my peers raise me and letting my peers direct me and guide me because at that time, Kyle, that's what I had to look up That's what I was like, okay, these, and this is, you know, when you're young, when you're in middle school and adolescent age, that's really when you're kind of coming into your own and you start making decisions or you start making bad judgment.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kevin:And doing that kind of stuff, Kyle, that made me feel like a man, shall I say? Because that made me feel like, oh, I'm doing drugs. I'm, being intimate with women. I am drinking. I'm a man now.
Kevin:I'm a man. I'm not just 11, 12. I'm not a square anymore. Put some respect on me. And, you know, I remember when I, after having my first and not to get too graphic or But I just remember after having my first, sexual relation with a woman when I was really young and coming out of the room and guys high fiving me.
Kevin:Hey, Kevin. Hey. Yeah. You know, and all of this stuff. And I felt that that was validation.
Kevin:I felt that, like, that's what.
Kyle:Because if you didn't, you were viewed as the square. Right? You were the outsider.
Kevin:100%. And I did not wanna be the outsider. I did not wanna be ostracized. I did not wanna be isolated because those were things that I had dealt with in my life and I dealt with later in my life, which we'll get to later, but I wanted to be part of, wanted to fit in. I wanted to be the person when they brought my name up there.
Kevin:Oh, Caban, that's the homie right there, man. I just smoked. I just got smoked with him the other day, man, cool cat and whatnot. Deep down, you're still kind of thinking, I don't know if this is right doing all of these things. You kind of have that conviction, but you wanted to do what all the homies were doing because you wanted to fit in.
Kevin:Didn't want to be a square. You know, squares in my neighborhood got jumped. Exactly. They got isolated. They got ostracized.
Kevin:They got made fun of. I didn't want to be a square cow.
Kyle:I get it. I I'm the same way. So I was a boy scout growing up. Was a boy. Were you really?
Kevin:Yeah. I was a boy scout. Below.
Kyle:Webelos before
Kevin:I got into Eagle scouts, but go ahead.
Kyle:That's what I, I think I made it to star scout, but our meetings were at this church probably five blocks away. And when I was younger, I used to wear the uniform and walk to church. There came a point where I was like, I can't wear this Boy Scout uniform in public. I would stuff it in my backpack, walk to church, change at church, and put on my uniform because I didn't want to be viewed as a square. I didn't wanna get thumped on on my way over to the church.
Kyle:Think about this as a 10, 11, 12, 13 year old kid having to navigate your community, your environment, your neighborhood, the people you know, but you gotta hide yourself. You can't put yourself out there fully. I'll be honest, Kevin, even to this day, there are repercussions from that. You know And what I so we'll get to that in a minute. And I wanna get back to your story because, you know, when I did my research, you know, I've known you for years.
Kyle:Me and me and you go way back, especially in this media business. Yep. But you know, you decide to go from Stockton to Atlanta, Georgia. Morehouse. Tell me
Kevin:about that decision, dude. It was a hell of a culture shock for one coming from Stockton to Hotlanta. I mean, I hope you're ready for that. I was not, but you know, it's funny you mentioned that because the reason I was inspired to go to Atlanta Morehouse was through team conference through Jack and Jill that opened me up and exposed me to other things when I, you know, that, that, where I had that defining moment. So I got a full ride scholarship to Morehouse College.
Kevin:And at the time Morehouse was not my, my top pick, but my mother, she was like, Kevin, you're going go where the money is at. Right. I don't blame her. Of course,
Kyle:of course.
Kevin:She didn't have money to send me to, you know, any of these other schools. Morehouse came through with a full ride scholarship. So I went out there. I graduated from high school in 2000, went out to Morehouse in fall of two thousand. And boy, I just remember hopping off that plane.
Kevin:First of all, when I hopped off that plane, I was like, what is this humidity? This is my clothes sticking to me. We are used to this in California. Right. You know, I just remember, you know, hopping off that plane, getting dropped off in the AUC.
Kevin:AUC is the Atlanta University Center where you have Morehouse, Spelman, Clark Atlanta, Morris Brown, ITC, and Morehouse School of Medicine.
Kevin:All in the same area. So you have these six colleges all within blocks of each other that you can walk to. And I just remember just looking around when I got there and I was like, wow, I had died and gone to heaven. Hallelujah. Thank you.
Kevin:Jesus. God is good. So, you know, I'm out there, Kyle, and just looking around and just taking all the descent, not exposed to any of this in Stockton. And, you know, I would say probably my, through my first six months out there, Kyle, I did get distracted. I was involving myself in, you know, the distractions of the city.
Kevin:Yeah, I get it. Because you're not used to any of these things in Stockton. Right.
Kyle:And you got that freedom too. Come on now. No curfew.
Kevin:Yep. Because see, when I was coming up in Stockton, I, you talked about your dad being the, the, the Batman signal. You had to come home. My mom had a curfew for me. So I had to be in by like midnight or earlier all throughout high school.
Kevin:My friends were able to hang out late 1AM, 2AM. I had to be back by, like, 11:30 or whatnot. So I was like, come on, mom. So going out to Atlanta and having no curfew in a city like that, man, that was just a playground for something disastrous to happen. Like, I mean, you're just asking for a perfect storm of things to happen.
Kevin:Uh-huh. And needless to say, after my first year there, I lost my scholarship because my GPA dropped.
Kyle:You too? Oh, me too. I do. I'm telling you, man.
Kevin:Join the club.
Kyle:Oh my, what was your first semester GPA? You remember?
Kevin:First semester was actually pretty good.
Kyle:Okay.
Kevin:Okay. First semester was like a 3.0 or something, but the second semester that dropped to like a two, I don't know, two, two, four, two, two, three, something like that. So I lost my scholarship after my first year because the distractions of the city, I was to try to, you know, come back and study every night and all that other stuff. There was other things I was trying to engage myself. So while it was a great experience going to Atlanta and seeing the opportunities out there and seeing all of these things I wasn't exposed to in, in Stockton, it was great on one hand.
Kevin:Cause you're like, wow, you know, the mayor is African American. Didn't even know that. And all of these wonderful things, you're seeing people who look like you in high positions, are executives, who are judges, who are, you know, politicians. So there's that inspiring aspect to it. But then there's also the other flip side of Atlanta, where, you know, the, the, the, the gentlemen's club and things of that sort, which I won't get into detail that I was exposed to.
Kevin:And, you know, that was, that was a distraction, Kyle. So, after that first year I did lose my scholarship, but I did fight to get it back my, sophomore year. Okay. Only to lose it again.
Kyle:Well, you know, and this is why I gotta have you on this podcast. It's called The Resilient Path. I'm listening to your story, whether it was, you know, trying drugs at a young age, sexual relations, neighborhood, parents splitting up, you know, losing your scholarship. You had to get knocked down and get back up and we're still doing it. And that's why I wanted to start this podcast.
Kyle:Let me ask you this though, because the people at home watching this, listening to this, they could see you're a big personality. Was that always how you were? Like even in the neighborhood growing up? I mean, you're on TV now. You've been on screen.
Kyle:Like, is this who you've always been?
Kevin:Would you say? That's a really good question, Kyle. So not initially because growing up, I had a speech impediment. I actually had to see a speech path. Yeah.
Kevin:True, true story. And it was embarrassing because all throughout elementary school, they would come in there and be like, oh, Kevin has to go to his speech therapist or whatever it is because they would come get me out of class. So I had a struggle pronouncing. See? There you go right there.
Kyle:There it is.
Kevin:I couldn't pronounce our words. So that's E R I R U R. Okay. I would say instead of saying brother, I would say brother or, you know, mother. Yeah.
Kevin:It was so difficult for me as a child to pronounce the R. So initially I was petrified to speak because of my speech impediment. And it took me a while to get over that. And then I think it was maybe around the time. I had gotten to maybe late elementary.
Kevin:And when I say late elementary, like, you know, fifth grade, six, right before middle school when a lot of my classmates would say I was funny. So whenever my classmates would say, Kevin, that was funny or that was hilarious. What that kind of did was that planted a seed of confidence in me like, Oh, maybe I can't speak out loud and things of that sort. So I think it was maybe around the fifth grade or whatnot when classmates were telling me I was funny and things of that sort, I realized like, oh man, okay, maybe I am a good speaker. So from that point on anytime in class, would raise my hand when it was like, I need someone to read.
Kevin:Most people would hide. I'd be like, oh, I'll read or really, you know, I'll present or or what. Well, the funny thing is Kyle, most of them, I wasn't the best student in elementary school, but I did know when it came to oral presentations or class participation, I would get my A in that. I was like, how'd you get when it comes to test quizzes, homework? But at least for participation, I knew I would excel Okay.
Kevin:So, so yeah, once I was able to get over that speech impediment and my peers would say, oh, you're, you know, you're, you're funny. That kind of planted a seed of confidence of, okay. Being more oral in class. Yeah.
Kyle:You know, for me, was, it's interesting because, you know, we're in this media space now and growing up, people used to always say, well, first of all, I hate it when they said you speak so well, you know, I, you know, because that was food words, you know, for a black person. But you know, they would always say, Kyle, you should join the debate team. I hated public speaking, dude. I hated putting myself out there. I hated being in front of people, you know?
Kyle:And it wasn't until I went to college. I was an engineering major in college. You know, you talk about your GPA. My first semester GPA was a 1.38.
Kevin:But you know what? That's acceptable because you were an engineering major.
Kevin:You had
Kevin:tough classes. Okay. I was a theater major.
Kyle:So there's no excuse. You're an engineer. You're the first person that ever said that. So I'll accept it, but you know, you know, my roommate in college, this was at Winona state when I transferred said, you should try broadcasting. I'm abroad.
Kyle:And I tried broadcasting and the light clicked, man. It was just like, damn, people have been telling me my whole life, you should do this. Now I'm doing it and I'm excelling. I'm thriving.
Kevin:You
Kyle:are. Was TV, was stage, was class, you know, being on television, always your path coming out
Kevin:of Morehouse? So it's funny you say that, Kyle, because when I went to college, I had no idea what I was going to major in. I had no idea what I wanted to do. And like I said, think part of that was just coming out of Stockton where I didn't see a lot of, I wasn't exposed to a lot of opportunities, careers and stuff like that until the conference. So I, and another thing is Kyle, like growing up, I wanted to be an athlete of course.
Kevin:So, you know, you had that realization like, okay, I'm not gonna be a professional athlete. What else do I enjoy doing? And I was thinking about all my classes and I was like, well, maybe if I was good at like critical thinking or English or whatever, maybe I would pursue like a career in law, or if I was good in science and all of my biology classes, maybe I'd pursue a career in medicine. Or maybe if I was great in math and, you know, excelled in algebra and all this stuff, I'd be like you and, pursue engineering, but I wasn't really good in a lot of things in high school. Kyle, the only thing I was good at was talking.
Kevin:Talking. Right. That was the only thing I was good at, So my senior year of high school, that's when I took my first theater class. And Karen Minnick, she was my theater instructor. And, you know, she had saw my energy on campus and, you know, she was able to channel that through the stage.
Kevin:I think that was the first time because, you know, growing up, I didn't know about broadcast journalism or making careers out of that. It was, so after, after she introduced that to me and I started doing theater, when I went off to college, when I didn't know what I wanted to major in, I was like, okay, well, I don't want to major in engineering. I'm not good at math. You know, I don't want to major in like, I don't know, law or pre law because I'm not good at like critical thinking or things of that sort. I had started off majoring in performing arts.
Kevin:The problem was like, I was discouraged to major in drama and performing arts because they're like, you know, Kevin, why go to Morehouse and major in performing arts? You know, go there and be an engineering major
Kyle:science
Kevin:or
Kyle:something. Yeah.
Kevin:Get a degree that actually means something.
Kyle:Yeah. So
Kevin:I was met with a lot of just opposition wanting to major in performing arts. I switched my major around like a 100 times, Kyle. I went to like business, then I tried psychology, then I tried all of these things just to please the masses out there. And finally, this is after my first year, after I lost my scholarship, I was talking to my academic advisor and she's like, Kevin, if you want to get the scholarship back, remember you only have four years for it. You need to major in something.
Kevin:Otherwise you're going be here five years or six years. So I ended up going back to what I initially wanted, which was performing arts against the direction and guidance of a lot of people. I was like, you know what, man? This is what I want to do. You know, I love performing arts.
Kevin:I love communications. I love acting. Love, you know, so screw it. If I graduate with this degree and I'm homeless in five years, Hey, I'll just, at least I have to live with that. That's myself.
Kevin:So I ended up going back and majoring in, drama. That's what I ended up graduating my degree in.
Kyle:You went on air and, you know, I watched your monologue, you know, during mental health awareness month. Check it out. It's on YouTube. It's, you know, on all of your social media pages. And you talked about your battle with depression.
Kyle:When did depression first come to your doorstep, do you think? When you first said, You know what? I got something going on.
Kevin:There's two answers to that. Okay. Because there's the times that I was for I I there were the times that I was first introduced to depression or came on my doorstep. But the and then there was a time when I actually embraced it, opened the door, realized and acknowledged depression. Because sometimes it'll come around, but you're kind of in denial.
Kevin:Right. Or you don't really want to embrace it or open the door and confront it. And there's times throughout my life when it would come around, but I would be in denial. Would stiff arm it or put it away because like, nah, you know, especially as men, especially as a black man, mental health is taboo. Right.
Kevin:It's not something we talk about. So when times when it did come around, I would stiff arm and be like, No, this don't happen to me. Is not me.
Kyle:It's just a bad day I'm having. It's a bad Yeah. Exactly.
Kevin:Brush it off like that.
Kyle:Yeah.
Kevin:So, Kyle, there were times when it came to my doorstep and I simply did not acknowledge it. And then there was a time that it came to my doorstep, and I realized this thing is real. It's not going anywhere, and I need to confront this demon that continuously is showing in rearing its ugly head. And that it it was at that time, and this was when I was in my twenties. It was at that time when I realized that, Kevin, you have a problem.
Kevin:You have something that is tearing you up inside and that is draining you emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually, And it's taking away from who you are. I became jaded. That's never been the person I've been my whole life. So when I realized that I was changing and realized that I was going down a very, very dark path, Kyle, And it was a combination of a series of events that took me down there, which I probably don't have a time to get into, but just a series of events, failure from career, breakups, rejection from the outside. It was all a, a cumulative, cumulative, effect of a lot of things that happened.
Kevin:And it culminated in this period where I just broke down and my, my world was shutting down. It was getting darker and darker. I just could not realize light at the end of the tunnel. I couldn't see myself out. And it continuously got worse.
Kevin:And, you know, most people say, oh man, you know, I have to, you know, there's no way I'm dying. Like most people will be like, you know, I would, I would have to find a reason to die because I have everything to live for with me. I had to try to find a reason to live because I had a million reasons to die, a gazillion reasons to die. It was trying to find a reason to stay alive because everything was just going downhill in my life, Kyle, everything. And I always, the hard thing was when I was going through all of this stuff in my late twenties and early thirties, it was like, I didn't want to share it because people always be like, Hey Kevin, how's it going?
Kevin:Oh man. Hey, it's, it's going good, man.
Kyle:I'm doing
Kevin:this, working on this. Like, I'm not telling this person, oh, just last night I was contemplating killing myself because everything in my world was dark and there was no sign of hope because you still want to put on the facade that you're doing okay and that you're aware, you don't want to be vulnerable and transparent and tell people that. So it was continue. And the thing too, with depression is there are times, and this is what really screws you up. There's times when you're deep in your pits and then there's like a little ray ray of sunshine or a ray of hope.
Kevin:And you're like, oh, okay, I'm out of this. And then it goes right back down
Kyle:and it could be something small that sets you off.
Kevin:It goes right back down. Right. Amen to that. Right. Small triggers,
Kyle:or
Kevin:things that just come up and they rear, and then you go back down and you up and you go back down. It's a rollercoaster and grief is never straight or lateral or, or whatever it is. It's never a straight line.
Kyle:Right.
Kevin:Grief is up and down and down. Depression's up and down. Anxiety is up and all of those things. And, I think when it got to me, when I realized that it was perpetually going down, that was for the first time in my life, Kyle, where I realized I needed help. And I went to a doctor to prescribe me medication.
Kevin:I went to a therapist. Went to, like, was, I was, I was just going and I was like, Kevin, you gotta suck up your pride. You gotta suck up everything because you're going down and you're going to kill yourself if you do not find help or find something to help you get out of this. Because Kyle, every day I was wrestling with suicide. Every day I was waking up, rest.
Kevin:There were times I wake up in the morning, Kyle, I just want to go back to sleep because going to sleep was the only piece I had when I was unconscious. That was the only piece I had. So sometimes I would wake up and be like, damn it. I don't wanna up in this reality of the world that I'm living in. I wanna go back to sleep and I just wanna sleep.
Kevin:I just don't, I don't wanna live in this reality. So it was a lot of darkness that I had went through, until I realized that. I'm gonna try to get some help.
Kyle:So I watched your, your video on ABC ten, you know, where you shared that and you showed a clip. You said you made a video to your loved ones and you showed a clip and it's you crying.
Kevin:Is that the video and why have you hung on to that? It's a good question. I remember shooting that video too. I was in my closet, in my room, and I was sitting on my closet floor in my room and I was was really struggling. And, you know, I wanted to tell my loved ones when they came in and found my body, I wanted them to know that, like, I I tried.
Kevin:I did, like, everything I could. I I, I fought. And I wanted because the the a lot of times with suicide is is the people who bear the majority of the grief are the loved ones, your friends, the people closer. Cause they bear the responsibility. They say, oh man, it's my fault.
Kevin:He did that. I wasn't there for him. I wasn't. And I, I kind of wanted them to know, like you guys, this is, this is not you. Like, this is me.
Kevin:You know, I'm fighting and I, I was just in a horrible and I, and I did keep that video because, after that particular moment, I wasn't convinced that I would not commit suicide. So I was like, okay, I'll just, you know, I'll keep that video. So, you know, next week, if I do it or whatever, at least they'll, you know, they'll know. And whether I send it through a group, text to everyone or whatnot, because the thing is, I just didn't want them to bear the guilt of a selfish act that I was going to commit. I wanted them to know that I love them and you guys, it was it was nothing that you guys did.
Kevin:This was internal demons that I had. And, that was probably the toughest video, I ever did on my phone. But it was it was it at that point in time, it was. It was, it was just hard. It was difficult.
Kevin:I'm just reliving that video in my head right now. And it was, it was very difficult, man.
Kyle:You know, you talk about going on medication, you know, I'm on antidepressants right now. And I remember going to my therapist and we're talking and she said, Have you ever thought about getting on antidepressants? I said, No, I don't need that. I'm good. I can handle this.
Kyle:Couple months go by, I go to my doctor. Kyle, you ever thought about going on antidepressants? Like, Nah, I'm good. A month later, I go into the doctor's office and I say, I think I need antidepressants. And I just started bawling in the doctor's office, Kevin, because at the time, I thought I was a failure.
Kyle:I thought I got beaten. I thought my whole life I have been able to overcome so much with just willpower, strength of my mind. This was a battle, and this is just two to three years ago. This was a battle I couldn't win on my own. How was it for you accepting the help that your doctor prescribed therapist talked about?
Kyle:Because at first for me, it was hard. It was difficult. And I bring this up because I know there are people like us out there right now who are wrestling with this, who are especially black men who are saying, I'm strong enough to do this on my own. How difficult was it to accept that help from the doctor, from the medication?
Kevin:First of all, Kyle, I want to say that I commend your strength for being able to go to the doctor and say, I surrender. I need medication because that takes a great deal of strength and courage to go in there, especially you being the person you are public figures, super talented. Everybody loves you to be able to go in there and say, I surrender. I need help. That's powerful.
Kevin:That is powerful.
Kyle:Thank you, man.
Kevin:And there's a lot of strength that comes from that. And I just gotta say, I admire the hell out of that. Cause just you saying that right there probably saved a few lives who are watching this seriously. So to, to, to get back to, to your question, I realized that I needed medication when I just could not function daily. You know, when your daily functions, your daily activities, the daily things, when I realized I couldn't do my daily things that I need to do, that's when I realized this is taking a toll on me and I cannot continuously go about my days feeling way down and feeling.
Kevin:You used a really good word when you said that failure. That's kind of what my, my first time around, what kind of, inspired those thoughts was failure, failure of being able to be anything in life, to be able to, have a relationship with somebody failure, to have a family failure to be successful. Everything was failure to me. That's all that was feeding my head was failure. So I completely, relate to you when you say that, but I realized that I needed help, Kyle, when my everyday activities, I struggled to do, it was challenging just to go to the grocery store, to go grocery shopping.
Kevin:It was challenging just to pay bills. It was not because it was a financial burden, but because I was just weighed down by it.
Kyle:Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin:So just any daily activity that it was challenging me. I'm a very social person, Kyle. When I knew that I was turning down, to social events or birthday parties, or cause I just wanted to be alone or isolated. That's when I knew that something's wrong and I'm gonna need help. And it was, it was one of those things where it just hit me.
Kevin:Like, I need help. Like I need to get medication. And like you, I struggle with it because people I've always been told, oh, if you're on medication, that makes you a weirdo, or that makes you you're weak or something like that. Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin:Yeah. You know? And I never wanted to be perceived like that. Like, oh, this is this weird guy that has to take medication because he's crazy in the head or things of that sort. But that's how it was always perceived to me growing up.
Kevin:So I realized I did need medication and I got on Sertraline, that my, my doctor had put me on. Yeah. Now keep in mind though, they did, I did have to do a series of psychological exams and stuff, and that's, I was, I was diagnosed with severe depression at that point in time. They did, you know, prescribe the medication to me, but I was so nervous. I had, I was kicking and screaming going in to take it because I did not want to do it.
Kevin:Kyle. I was in fear of doing it. And even while I was on it, I didn't tell anybody for a while that I was on medication. I didn't want anyone to know I was on meds initially other than my doctor and my therapist.
Kyle:Yeah. Same man, same, but I'm glad we're talking about it because, and this is the reason why I wanted to start the podcast is because, and you and I have talked, you know, there are so many people suffering in silence and I'm hoping my story, your story, the people we have on this podcast can really, you know, open the door and shed some light and really provide hope and inspiration to other people. Like I said, they're not alone. You know, if you think you're alone, no, I'm going through it. Kevin's going through, you know, The name of the podcast is The Resilient Path, and you've shown resilience in your entire career, now as, you know, ABC ten Sacramento sports anchor.
Kyle:What piece of advice, I guess, and we'll leave it at this, would you give to people listening right now, watching right now who are going through it, who are, whether it's depression, whether it's abuse, whether it's struggles, whether it's suicidal thoughts, like, you know what? I might not make it. What could you say to people?
Kevin:That's a really good question. And I'm going to try to give a concise answer because there's a lot of things that's going through my head when you talk about advice and what I would say. First thing that I would say is in life, you will suffer defeats, but you must not be defeated. And I can't take credit for that. The doc, the great, the, the late, great doctor Maya Angelou has a quote that's something like that.
Kevin:Maybe not verbatim, but a lot of times when we're defeated, we feel down. We feel like it that's it. Like you feel like you're at your wit's ends. It feels like the end of the world. You're going to suffer defeats in life.
Kevin:It's inevitable. If you want to be anything in life, it's inevitable that you're going to suffer failure. You're going to suffer rejection. That is not the end all be all. That is just one small defeat.
Kevin:You will be defeated. You will suffer defeats, but you must not be defeated. You can always come back from whatever it is. And I know that some defeats hurt harder than others, whether it's a breakup, whether it's, being fired from a job, whether it's your children walking out, whatever the defeat is, I, I can understand it feels like the end of the world, it's inevitable in anything that you do. Don't let that, don't let that, take you away.
Kevin:Second thing that I would say, we've heard this before, there's strength in numbers and have a strong village. It takes a village. I think a lot of times, and this was my mistake, Kyle, I used to always isolate myself when being depressed. Yes. I always isolated myself because a, I didn't want to be a burden to anybody, two, I didn't feel anyone would understand what I'm going through three.
Kevin:I always wanted to be, put on this image that I was strong and I could take care of stuff. So that's because I'm usually the friend people come to, to get cheered up. Right. I was like, you know, I want
Kyle:to be,
Kevin:be cheered up. I'm not the one who's, you know, needs the cheering up. So lean on your village and it's okay to have a village or, you know, it could be one person. It could be five people, whether that's close friends, whether that's family members, whoever it is, have a village or support system or accountability system, something like that to where these are individuals that you can turn to when you are going through dark times, or you can just text one of them and say, Hey, going through it right now or whatever it is. They know your code words.
Kevin:You know, I was in, not to get off subject, but at my church that I went to in LA, I was in this class called celebrate recovery. And we would just have code words where we would text people in the group and say struggling or whatever it is. And they understand.
Kyle:So,
Kevin:so have a village. Third thing I would say to that, advice is, and this may not work for everybody, but it works for myself. I truly think that being of service is one of the best things that you can do. There's a quote that says the best way to cheer up yourself is to cheer on somebody else. And I truly believe that by helping others that in a way makes yourself feel better.
Kevin:That truly, truly, makes you feel fulfilled, gives you a sense of purpose when you're helping other people. One of my favorite quotes of all time is by the evangelist, Rick Warren, and he says, God determines greatness by how many people you serve, not by how many people serve you. And that's one of the things I think about. Greatness is truly determined about service of others, not service to self. And I think when you're going through it and when you're going through difficult times, find ways to volunteer or to be of service to somebody else, because you may find purpose in that.
Kyle:Right.
Kevin:You may find a sense of fulfillment in that you, that may actually cheer you up in a way that you didn't think would be cheered up. Whether you're servicing at a convalescent home and an animal shelter, big brothers, whatever it is. And I always try to be of service when I can, because that truly gives me purpose and fulfillment. And that makes me, you know, like I said, the best way to cheer up yourself is to cheer on somebody else. So I would say definitely having a, you know, a, you know, being of service.
Kevin:And the last thing I would say, as far as advice to that is just knowing it's okay to feel ashamed. It is okay to feel rejected. It is okay to feel isolated, like embrace those feelings. You don't have to live in that, but just know that that is okay. Like you're going to get beat down and truth be told Kyle.
Kevin:I'm not a quote unquote, a 100% overcomer. There's times Kyle, when I get down on There's times I have bad days. There's times I still have to get myself out of funks and whatnot. No, it's okay to feel that. It is okay.
Kevin:It is not okay to sit in that forever, but it is okay to feel that. That is perfectly fine. And when you do feel that, try doing one of the three things that I mentioned before that as far as advice.
Kyle:Kevin, I want to leave you and the listeners with this quote, from Christine Cain, who's an Australian activist. Yeah. You, you heard it. You may, you might've heard
Kevin:this one. Christine Cain actually came in, and she used to preach at my church a lot, Oasis Christian She's good friends with my pastor, Philip and Holly Wagner. And Christine Cain used to come down there a lot. She's beloved in LA at Oasis Christian Center.
Kyle:She says, sometimes when you're in a dark place, you think you've been buried, but you've actually been planted. Kevin John, thanks for coming on the Resilient Path Podcast, man. This was excellent. You got a fan in me for life, man. I really appreciate you.
Kevin:Well, Kyle, thanks. Thanks. First of all, for having me on the podcast, I feel honored and special and privileged that you invited me on here. And I just wanna tell you, I wanna echo everything you say you've said to me. You are class personified.
Kevin:Yes. You are dynamic as a sportscaster. You're dynamic at what you do, but you're a dynamic individual. You're a dynamic person. You guys may not know Kyle actually came to speak to my class on his own time, drove all the way out to Elk Grove to impart some knowledge into my students free of cost.
Kevin:And that right there just talks to, is a testament to his heart and who he is. So, Kyle, I love what you're doing. Keep it up. And just like you get you said, fan for life, for me, you have a brother for life, man. If you need anything, brother
Kyle:Okay.
Kevin:I got your back.
Kyle:All All right. Appreciate you.
Kevin:I appreciate you.
Kyle:The great Kevin John here on the Resilient Path Podcast. Make sure you go out there, like, and subscribe on YouTube, The Resilient Path Podcast. We're also on Instagram, The Resilient Path Podcast, and, of course, on Spotify, Apple, wherever you get your podcast at. Take us on the go. You've been listening to The Resilient Path Podcast.