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Mental Selling: The Sales Performance Podcast is a show for motivated problem solvers in sales, leadership and customer service. Each episode features a conversation with sales leaders and industry experts who understand the importance of the mindset and skill set needed to be exceptional at building trusted customer relationships. In this podcast, we get below the surface, tapping into the emotional and psychological drivers of lasting sales and service success. You’ll hear stories and insights about overcoming the self-limiting beliefs that hold salespeople back, how to unlock the full potential in every salesperson, the complexities of today’s B2B buying cycles, and the rise of today’s virtual selling environment. We help you understand the mental and emotional aspects of sales performance that will empower you to deliver amazing customer experiences and get the results you want.
Welcome to Mental Selling!
[00:00:00] Jess Rose: When the reps aren’t following that process in place and they’re not taking those couple extra steps of adding those people and rushing notes and skipping fields because they just want to get through a requirement, the business is making decisions off of that data, and that’s such a challenge to kind of get through. And the entire revenue organization is just working with blind spots at that point.
[00:00:23] Hayley Parr: This is Mental Selling, the sales podcast for people who are dedicated to making a difference in customers’ lives. We’re here to help you unlock sales talent, win more relationships, and transform your business with integrity. I’m your host, Hayley Parr. Let’s get right into it. Welcome back to the Mental Selling podcast, brought to you by Integrity Solutions, where we explore the mindset and skillset behind high-performance sales leadership. In every episode, we dig into what drives today’s top performers, the beliefs, systems, and human behaviors that separate reactive selling from consistent, scalable growth. Today we’re joined by someone who sits at the center of that growth engine, even if most companies don’t fully realize it until something breaks. Jess Rose, Director of Revenue Operations here at Integrity Solutions, is joining us today. She may be new to the team, but she’s not new to solving the kinds of problems that silently drain revenue, stall deals, and make even the most seasoned sales leaders mutter.
[00:01:32] Hayley Parr: Why is this so hard? Rev Ops is often undervalued, misunderstood, or treated like the cleanup crew, but Jess believes it’s actually one of the most strategic functions in a modern revenue organization, and I’d have to agree with her, especially after having the pleasure of working with her and seeing her magic in action. So on today’s episode of Mental Selling, we’re unpacking why revenue operations shouldn’t be overlooked, what it looks like when it’s done right, and how aligning people, processes, and data can unlock serious, measurable bottom-line impact. Let’s dive in. Jess, welcome to the Mental Selling podcast. Thank you so much for joining today.
[00:02:20] Jess Rose: Thank you. I’m so excited to be here and speak.
[00:02:23] Hayley Parr: Revenue operations. Yes, we’ve been awaiting you, not just joining the podcast but joining Integrity Solutions. We’re on week three of your tenure with the team, is that correct?
[00:02:36] Jess Rose: Yes, week three, and it’s probably been the fastest three weeks of my life, but the most exciting and the most rewarding.
[00:02:43] Hayley Parr: Well, congratulations. Happy, happy third-week anniversary. Before we really dive in and start to unpack the strategy and impact of this work, I really want to just lay the foundation of revenue operations for our listeners because it can mean a lot of different things in different contexts, in different companies, for different roles. So tell me in your words, how would you define revenue operations? What is it exactly? And maybe touch a bit on some of your core areas of responsibility as the Director of Revenue Operations here at Integrity Solutions.
[00:03:20] Jess Rose: Yeah, definitely. So for me, revenue operations is the connective tissue of the business. It’s the function that aligns sales, marketing, and customer success around one shared goal: efficient, predictable revenue. At Integrity, my core responsibilities will kind of fall into three buckets. There’s systems — making sure that our tech stack actually works for humans and not against them. There’s process — creating clear, repeatable workflows that remove the friction from the buying journey. And then the insights — turning data into decisions that help leaders prioritize what really drives revenue. So if it’s a process that touches revenue, Rev Ops is either behind it, fixing it, or making it work better.
[00:04:05] Hayley Parr: I can see how that would be important across the gamut of functions throughout an organization, but as a marketer and for many of our listeners being in sales roles especially, how that is absolutely critical from a functional standpoint. And that’s an absolutely great foundation, especially as you mentioned, so much of what revenue operations touches can look invisible until you’re inside it and realize just how much it touches. So let’s zoom out just a bit. Again, you’re new, you’re stepping into this role, you’re on week three as the Director of Revenue Operations, but you’ve been doing this for a really long time and you’re stepping in here specifically at a time when expectations for this function have never been higher, and obviously the definition and what it really means keeps expanding and the importance is more prevalent than ever. Tell us a little bit about your career. What drew you into revenue operations? When did you really realize that the work that you’re doing might just have some of the biggest impacts from a revenue standpoint?
[00:05:15] Jess Rose: Yeah, I realized early on in my career that the invisible work behind revenue is often what creates the biggest impact. I once worked on this project where I consolidated over 300 Salesforce reports just down to a single dashboard. It was a big project, but one of those that completely paid off. It hit me at that point that the people selling don’t need more noise, they just need more clarity, and Rev Ops removes that friction and everybody will feel it. So I love being in that role when you can see the whole board and you get to make everything simpler, smarter, and more scalable. That’s what really turned me on to revenue operations.
[00:05:51] Hayley Parr: The people who are selling don’t need more noise, they need more clarity. That’s huge, and that’s really great context. I can see how that pulled you in and why that core vision is something that the go-to-market world really needs in terms of this role. It’s one of those functions leaders can obviously recognize that that’s something they need and something that they value, but when it’s time to say, hey, there’s a need on my team to do the data work, put this function on the staff, it’s time to fund it, I need this — otherwise, it often falls to anyone else who’s got bandwidth. And as we all know, especially on such a small lean team, that can be difficult, and suddenly it’s a nice-to-have, not a need-to-have. Help me unpack why this tends to be an underappreciated but expensive-to-ignore function in sales. What are those misconceptions around this role? What are some of those big misconceptions that leaders have about what this role actually means versus in reality what it is that you do?
[00:07:08] Jess Rose: Yeah, so I think the biggest misconception is that Rev Ops is just a technical support function. It’s just like a branch of IT. It’s the CRM person. But Rev Ops isn’t just clicking buttons. It’s really diagnosing revenue problems. It’s understanding where those deals die, where handoffs are breaking, where time is wasted, and ultimately where money is leaking. So it’s not just that technical support — it’s really somebody who’s understanding and being proactive in making sure that you’re not losing money.
[00:07:41] Hayley Parr: I mean, probably ten years ago in my career, I may have held those misconceptions as well. And would you say those are skill sets that you had thought were your natural skill sets, or what are some of the natural skill sets of someone who is going to excel in this role?
[00:07:57] Jess Rose: It’s funny. I inherited Salesforce in my last role, and I did sort of feel like just an admin for a little while until you really start to get excited by, this is such an incredibly powerful tool — how can we make this tool work for the business and where can we see the impact? And it’s funny, earlier in my career I heard Salesforce is almost just like a giant phone book. And yes, it is like that. It is where your contact information is, but there’s so much more power and automation to it. And all of these systems nowadays — it’s how can you really transform that so you’re not just implementing a technology, you’re actually bringing in new processes and making things move quicker and you’re optimizing what’s available in the market.
[00:08:43] Hayley Parr: You call it a giant phone book. I hear a very expensive phone. Yes. Holy cow, that too. Oh my goodness. Speaking of quantifying the cost of that misconception, what are some other costs you can quantify of not having a solid Rev Ops strategy in place? Where are some other areas that organizations might feel that pain?
[00:09:10] Jess Rose: Yeah, that pain will show up fast if you ignore revenue operations. It’s — dirty data can equal bad forecasting. Broken handoffs are lost deals. Reps are selling in all different ways, and leaders are ultimately flying blind, so they’re just being reactive instead of strategic. So it’s kind of like that death by a thousand cuts, and the cost is just compounding every quarter.
[00:09:32] Hayley Parr: Death by a thousand cuts. I think we’ve all felt that. So what are some simple fixes — and maybe you have an example where it was something small that created a meaningful revenue impact, something from your experience, maybe in a prior role or maybe something you’ve even seen here.
[00:09:51] Jess Rose: Yeah, so one fix in a prior role was just eliminating duplicate steps in the opportunity-creation process. We kind of took some time and said, we’re asking the same thing but in four different ways — why don’t we just simplify that and then do some enablement around what we’re really asking? So reps started creating opportunities earlier and more consistently, which gave leadership more visibility and allowed for proactive support. So sometimes it’s just that smallest reduction in friction that can deliver the biggest lift, and it’s just taking the time to understand where that friction is and what could be causing some lack of adoption or compliance.
[00:10:32] Hayley Parr: More support, not to mention more accurate — and you may have said this — more accurate forecasting, which who couldn’t benefit from that? By being able to better predict the future and have better insights into the data. When I think about this role, I can’t tell if it feels more like Rev Ops is the duct tape that holds sales and marketing and other functions together, or if it’s more like air traffic control, keeping everyone from flying into each other. What would you say if you had to pick one of those analogies?
[00:11:10] Jess Rose: Yeah, I would say Rev Ops is air traffic control. We’re not building the planes, but we’re making sure that they take off on time, they’re flying in the right direction, and most importantly, don’t collide.
[00:11:21] Hayley Parr: I love that. Let’s not collide into each other. Let’s not. Let’s prevent that, especially in 2025. So clearly you’re not just a back-office function. The Rev Ops role is an actual strategic growth lever. I think we’ve established that. But one thing that our listeners really, really appreciate — and we like to provide on the Mental Selling podcast — is actual practical application of what our guests have seen work in the field, how this role can actually accelerate performance on the ground. Understanding the value is one thing; seeing it in day-to-day execution — this is where the magic happens. So you’ve got actual experience. You were in your previous role for a long time, but you’re fresh here at Integrity Solutions, so you know exactly what it takes to come in on day one and come in, fix the revenue engine. What are some of the very initial levers you examine on day one of an organization that might not have this role?
[00:12:22] Jess Rose: Absolutely, yeah. So when I’m brought in to look at the revenue engine, I would say that I would start with data foundation. Is it clean? Is it structured? Can we trust it? Process clarity — does everyone know how leads move, how handoffs work, who owns what? Process is huge. And alongside process, I would say the documentation piece — if there’s a process in place, make sure it’s documented. But then my third would be the tech and enablement — are the tools actually helping reps sell, or are they slowing them down and just causing more of a headache and more of a time suck in their day?
[00:12:58] Hayley Parr: So data hygiene, tech enablement, and process. One of those areas I want to double click into just for our listeners’ sake, because we all talk about data hygiene a lot, but what does that actually mean from your perspective? Or what are some of the more important areas of hygiene from a sales function?
[00:13:18] Jess Rose: From a sales function specifically, I would say the opportunity data. Every missed field, every rushed note — those have such important downstream impacts. Are you skipping things? Are you putting half of the data in there? Is there a first name but no last name? It’s stuff like that — it really breaks the system. And then from a reporting perspective, it just leaves so many gaps, and that’s where the pain causes.
[00:13:46] Hayley Parr: And they seem like such small things, right?
[00:13:49] Jess Rose: Exactly. And I get it — it can come off as very administrative, and that’s why it’s so critical that you remove that friction of duplicative work so that if you have to put these notes down, you’re just putting them once. You’re not going to answer the same question five different times. But we just want to make sure that the data that we need to move forward and move in the smartest way is captured.
[00:14:12] Hayley Parr: Are there any other processes or workflows that Rev Ops touches that maybe reps aren’t thinking about, but they absolutely should because it’ll have a direct impact on their success?
[00:14:24] Jess Rose: Yeah, I think lead routing is huge. It might seem small, but slow or inconsistent lead routing can kill a deal before a rep even knew it existed. So lead-to-lead isn’t just a metric — those are dollars.
[00:14:37] Hayley Parr: You’re speaking my language. That’s one four-letter word that keeps me up at night — for all the right reasons. I’ll say it, the right ones. So you’re spot on there. Hi there. If you’re listening to this show, it means you believe in making a difference in your customers’ lives and are looking for tools to grow in your career. At the same time, at Integrity Solutions, we’re changing the stereotypes about sales training in ways your customers will feel and experience every day. If you want to learn more about how we could help you and your team, go to integritysolutions.com. As we know at Integrity Solutions, we’re a team of about 30 — so very small, small and scrappy. For other companies out there or similar sizes, but may have lean resources for other reasons, what are some low-effort, high-return-on-investment Rev Ops adjustments? Maybe they aren’t able to bring someone in-house. What are some things that they can do — adjustments they can make — to take advantage of the activities that you’re doing with what they have in a low-investment type of way?
[00:15:47] Jess Rose: I would say making sure that your sales stages are standardized and documented and clearly defined across sales, marketing, and customer success. If every rep is defining a qualified opportunity differently, then nothing else is going to really matter. It’s the conversion rates, the forecast, the pipeline reviews — it’s all just friction because there’s just a different definition across. So if you spend an afternoon of alignment and documentation, documentation, documentation, that can save you months of chaos if you really just have a clear path forward and everybody is following that same consistent process.
[00:16:25] Hayley Parr: So these systems, the structure, the process — these are all very operational things. But you bring up a really good point around something that can derail the best systems, the best structure, the best process, and that’s the fact that we are all human. At the end of the day — and this is the Mental Selling podcast — we’d be remiss if we didn’t talk about the psychology of it all. Often technology doesn’t break processes — it’s the people that do. And Rev Ops is, I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t sit in your seat, but it’s more than just the tools and the system, the workflow — it’s the people. The messy, emotional, inconsistent people. That’s where things get interesting. So with that, I want to talk about kind of the human side of the data and the operations and how you manage that within your role. Talk to me a little bit about how human habits — and I’m thinking things like rushed notes, skipped fields, inconsistent updates — can create some of that downstream chaos. We touched on a few of the examples, so if you have any others where there are some real business consequences, I think that might be a good lesson or red flag for our listeners to keep an eye out for in your experience.
[00:17:40] Jess Rose: Right. Yeah, I think definitely. It’s funny — in my last role and in this role, I’ve heard from speaking with the reps that one thing that they cannot stand doing is that such an extra step of connecting contacts to opportunities. And at the end of the day, those are the people that are your decision-makers and your buyers. And for us to get any kind of reliable data on that opportunity, we want to know who those people are. So it is a couple extra steps in the process, but the business and leaders are making decisions on this data, and without that, customer success is relying on it for handoffs. Marketing uses it for targeting and attribution. And when the reps aren’t following that process in place and they’re not taking those couple extra steps of adding those people — and again, to that point of rushing notes and skipping fields and just putting in n/a because they just want to get through a requirement — the business is making decisions off of that data, and that’s such a challenge to kind of get through. And the entire revenue organization is just working with blind spots at that point. This is where Rev Ops is so important because we don’t want to add more work. We don’t want to make it feel like you have to have six more processes, but it’s just focusing on those key things — like the person on the opportunity is quite important. So how do we make it as easy as possible to get that information from the rep without making it seem like it’s just an overly administrative role?
[00:19:08] Hayley Parr: You named two things there that can help teams take data accuracy seriously — one being calling out the why behind why it’s important. Leadership is using this data for these reasons. Two being: we want to make it as easy for you as possible. How are some other ways that you can really rally a team around making sure they’re taking these things seriously without adding more administrative function to their day or making them feel like they’re being policed or being micromanaged? Because nobody wants to feel that way. That’s not a great culture to work within.
[00:19:46] Jess Rose: You earn that compliance and you earn that adoption by trying to make it as easy as possible. So we do understand that some of these technologies have limits and there are certain things we can and can’t do. I wish we could magically make things work, but we’re working to the best of our ability too. So sometimes there are extra steps, but really trying to focus on removing those clicks and eliminating the duplicate work — that really creates, I think, the biggest change for the reps on their day-to-day work. It’s just knowing that we are taking them into consideration with some of these changes and understanding that there is a why and we need to make sure that we’re communicating that why. It’s highlighting the features and the benefits of the work that we’re asking them to do.
[00:20:31] Hayley Parr: Absolutely, and you do that very well. And another thing that you do very well, which I appreciate as a marketer, is translating technical processes and insights to non-technical leaders, which is an essential communication skill. How do you make that work? What are some tips or tricks for translating all of the data that you’re seeing into actual insights that are valuable and useful to the stakeholders who need that information to make those decisions?
[00:21:04] Jess Rose: The translation is everything. Rev Ops has to explain technical issues in business terms, and then business strategy in system terms. So if I can’t make something that’s complex sound simple, then the change is never going to stick. So what I really like to do — and what you’ll see in so many of my emails — is I’ll always use a really clear and simple example when I’m trying to explain why a process is broken and this is what’s happening because of that. So I use really clear examples to really get a point across, to understand: if this is breaking or if this isn’t working, this is the downstream effect and this is what is happening. So just really clear, simple examples can really paint a picture and can stick with somebody trying to understand maybe a technical term or process.
[00:21:48] Hayley Parr: It really is kind of a unicorn role because how many people have that communication ability to bridge that gap back and forth.
[00:21:57] Jess Rose: Definitely took me some time to kind of pick up on both sides, and I still feel like I don’t speak as well technical as some of my CRM developers and counterparts. But then on the business strategy side, it’s like, alright, how do I translate that? So it definitely takes some time and some work, but that’s where I love the examples because everybody can kind of understand an example of a process.
[00:22:17] Hayley Parr: You do it so well — not just from technical to non-technical, but also cross-functionally as well: sales, marketing, customer success, with our vendor partners who help us with our various systems. Another key skill set for this role is building trust. What have you found most effective in forging those relationships to build trust across departmentally?
[00:22:42] Jess Rose: I think consistency and clarity and follow-through can really make a big difference when you’re working cross-functionally. It’s making sure that the alignment across teams is in the front of your mind the entire time. The customer is at the center of every decision. Like I said before, with some of the processes and the changes that we make, we understand it might be adding a couple steps, but that could be a limitation of the technology. So it’s just finding that balance. And I think that trust will really grow when people know that you’re not optimizing for the system — you’re optimizing for them — and they are at the center of your decision-making, regardless if it doesn’t feel that way. But it truly is for the Rev Ops team.
[00:23:22] Hayley Parr: Absolutely. I think I say this on every episode, but I really do mean it when I say this has been such an incredibly rich conversation — one of my favorites. We’re really pulling the curtain back on a role that can be misunderstood but is obviously so critical to the success of any organization trying to generate revenue, any trying to connect the dots between their sales and marketing functions and understand their data in a way that’s meaningful so that they can make faster, better, smarter decisions. I cannot thank you enough for joining the team, for agreeing to come on the podcast, and for spending some time with our listeners today. Thank you. And if you don’t mind, before we wrap, I’d like to hit you with a few rapid-fire questions to send us home. You don’t need to elaborate on any of these — just shoot from the hip. If you could wave a magic wand and instantly fix one Rev Ops problem that is consistent across many organizations, what would it be?
[00:24:25] Jess Rose: Every organization would have clean, structured, and consistently used data. It is that foundation.
[00:24:34] Hayley Parr: Simple but not easy, right? That’s what’s so hard — but it’s not. I get it. I see you. That’s a good one. What is a quote, mantra, or mental model that guides how you approach systems alignment or cross-team collaboration?
[00:24:50] Jess Rose: If you want consistency, you need to create it. You can’t just expect it.
[00:24:56] Hayley Parr: Ooh, calling me out a little bit today, Jess. I love that. Where I’m feeling that most today is in my parenting style a little bit. So carrying that one into the weekend. Last rapid-fire wrap-up question, and then I will let you get on with your Friday. What is one thing a leader — a sales leader or otherwise — can do within the next week to make their revenue team more effective with no budget required?
[00:25:28] Jess Rose: Ask your revenue team one huge question: What is the biggest time waster in your day? And then do everything in your power to remove it, because I truly believe that eliminating friction is going to be your fastest path to revenue.
[00:25:45] Hayley Parr: So don’t just ask the question, but actually follow up on their response.
[00:25:49] Jess Rose: Exactly. That’s where the trust comes in.
[00:25:52] Hayley Parr: Excellent. Jess, this was a delight. Thank you so much for joining.
[00:25:56] Jess Rose: Thank you for joining. This was great. I’m so excited to share more about revenue operations, and I hope people get just as excited about this function.
[00:26:05] Hayley Parr: I think they will. Thanks again. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on Mental Selling. If today’s conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your network. For more insights on how to go beyond winning deals and build real customer relationships, visit integritysolutions.com. See you next time.