Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Did I Mess Up? With Nic Howe
00:00
Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast by Restoration Project. Excited that you've joined us again. My name's Jesse French. I'm one of the co-hosts along with Chris Bruno. Chris, how are you today? Man, I'm good. I'm doing really well. I'm glad to be back together with our good friend Nic. Yeah. Excited that Nic Howe can return to the podcast. Nic, thanks for joining us again. And yeah, just give us a little, it was a little long pressure, but I'll eat it. You know,
00:26
traffic was stopped up on the Internet Express, but you know, got here. You embraced and embarked the wilderness of Internet traffic. Glad you were here, man. That's such a dad. Internet traffic was bad, but I got here anyway. Well, speaking of dad jokes, you're a relatively new dad. I am. Yep. Got a little girl at home. She is...
00:51
the cutest human being on the planet, ratified by several random strangers in grocery stores and shops all over our neighborhood. That's official. He used the word ratified. He did use that word. I mean, all kids are cute and I've seen a lot of kids, but your daughter is just the cutest. I'm just like, yes, I know. In your defense, I know I've told you this, in the very unofficial competition of favorite.
01:16
Christmas cards that our family gets. You were the head and shoulders winner of greatest Christmas card of which your daughter had the leading role in that. So well done. Well done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She bonked me in the teeth and we caught it on camera where literally I'm just like in agony and pain as her skull just hit the front of my teeth in the perfect way. So I was like, he's going in the card. It's good. I love that you actually used that photo. Most people throw those away. I know.
01:46
It was too funny not to, it's too funny not to. Yeah. Well, Nic, we'd love to ask you and kind of tip our conversation today around what the last kind of three years has held that you had a big move physically, but even in deeper ways than that a few years ago. And so it just loved to maybe kind of start there three ish, three and a half years ago and start it there and, and see where our conversation leads. Yeah. And I appreciate us like being able to talk about this and you let me share a little bit of this.
02:15
disclaimer, I think I just do want to say like, I love that you're calling it the forge. And when you invited me like, thinking about sharing some of this, I was like, well, like y'all there, I'm still in the frickin forge. Like this is not. And here's how I learned how to like deal with this thing and how you can do it to like, just like disclaimer, like this is like, not resolved. And that's what we like. That's an honor to share it with you. And it's like, yeah.
02:44
don't have the nice three points of like how you can avoid where I'm at or learn from what I've learned kind of a thing. So yeah, rewind the clock about three and a half years ago, was living in Washington, had been there about seven years. My wife and I, Brooke had always wrestled, struggled with where we wanted to live. Washington was initially a move for schooling. So I think the thought was like, oh, three years for a degree and then back to Colorado.
03:12
where we had met and were from. Logically, that's how everyone should think about this. Sure. As a Colorado native. Three degree turns into four years, four and a half, because I want to get licensed and it's easier to get licensed. And then four and a half turns into seven as I start a new job and just getting things started. And it's boiling between us and my wife's family's from Minnesota here. And so there was all the trips and vacations and holidays to come back and see.
03:42
her side of the family and it had always been on the table. And we got to a point where I knew I wanted to launch off and start my own thing. I was grateful for where I was at working at a group practice, but was like, I feel this like deep calling, if you will, or like, yeah, what does that look like to start my own thing? And so that could happen where we were at or anywhere. So long story short, like Brooke gets a job offer for a teaching position. So it's like, okay.
04:10
So there would be some security there with a job for me to start something brand new and kind of start there. Had a moment praying at a park bench where I even feel like God spoke through like a little girl basically saying, come on, what are you waiting for? And like I think headed off to the Midwest with fear and anxiety, but a sense of adventure. Like we're going to do this and let's do something big. And like, man, I'm going to start my own therapy practice and you know, do my thing and like find my way.
04:39
That was also in the middle of pandemic. So I'll try and make it short, but landed and I'd say a backstory, did my undergrad in Wisconsin. So knew of the Midwest and some of the cultural pieces there. I grew up in Colorado and spent seven years in Washington, mountains and topography and water are near and dear to my heart. So I knew in the Midwest, I'm not saying Minnesota is not beautiful, but there's not a lot of topography. There's not a lot of elevation change in the entire state.
05:09
So there's a part of me, I'm like, God, I love beauty. This is a huge sacrifice for me. I don't always know, like Brooke knows that, but I'm like, do you really know? Like, man, if I don't have mountains, like that's really hard for me. It's the deal. Yeah. Let's go for here. So land, it's the middle of the pandemic. In some ways I'd even say like just interesting landing. Like we were apartment hunting during the week of George Floyd's murder. So the cities are literally on fire and it's chaotic.
05:38
we're looking at apartments and we're like, oh, that target's on fire over there. And like, God, what is going on in this city and moving. And so like getting to try and establish friendships during a pandemic doesn't happen super well where everyone's like stay away. And so in-laws, mother-in-law, father-in-law, Brooke's got a few siblings around in the area, kind of that pocket. And yeah, I was isolated doing all my work virtually in an apartment in a little breakfast nook.
06:08
depressed, anxious, like running headlong into this realization that an undergrad in Bible and a grad degree in therapy does not give one a lot of business training of like how do you start and launch your own business. So like doubt creeps in, shame creeps in, depression creeps in, I'm isolated. I'm starting off as a therapist to like look outside myself and go, you're not in a healthy place. You don't have community, you're by yourself all day, you're on your screen all day for work.
06:37
being a teacher and I'm just like, a person, a person, a person. And she's done talking with people having been with first graders all day. And so I'd say that first year was hard and there was a lot that I could skip over just to say making relationships I think is hard. We moved when I was 37. So realizing, yeah, people's friend circles are most of the time filled in by your like mid to late 30s.
07:04
wanting to try and make relationships and knowing in my head that relationships take time and wanting good and deep relationships and wrestling with all of my attempts to do that and my own struggles of what I'm longing for. And it kind of was like, this is not what I was hoping for. Like I knew it was a risk, but this is not what I was hoping for. Yeah, the last three and a half years, don't get me wrong, there has been goodness. There's been moments of, I mean, my daughter for one and one huge piece. And it's been this like,
07:34
Did I mess up? Did I do something wrong? Or when does it get better? Kind of a feeling. Or I'm just tired of calling it a season. Like, well, it's a season. Oh man, don't tell me that. That's all we get for so long, right? Yeah. Like seasons are like three to four months and then they change, right? Like, it's been a while since I've had a season. Yeah. So that's like the long and hot messy version of moving here. Like.
08:00
fell a lot like the alley and not the hoop. Like, oh, here we go. And not completely, but at times. I think, Nic, what you just said a moment ago about the whole season thing and also like, did I mess up? I mean, how many times in my life have I asked that question? Like I've made a move, big or small, did I mess up? Did I mess up? And like I said, big or small,
08:29
in the categories of a move all the way down to, did I choose the wrong grocery line? Did I mess up? You too. Yes. For some reason, I always- You're watching the other one? .. line. Always, always, always. If there's a lane of traffic and you get in the other one, then that one doesn't move? Yeah. Yeah. The gas station line, the grocery line, the traffic line, whatever line. Did I mess up though, is this-
08:56
in like almost innate response of if something is not going the way that I had hoped for, or if there are some challenges that I'm facing, the automatic response is there must be something that I did wrong that I messed up. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'd say my theology was constructed well enough that I'm not supposed to blame God because he's perfect and he's good. So he didn't mess up.
09:26
It must be ergo. Right, right. And again, I think that's probably like from a high level, I can go that's a false binary choice, either God messed up or I messed up. And I think the conversation is actually different than that. But I absolutely have found myself having to wrestle with that. Like, did I mess up? Am I not enough? It's still like, you know, did God set me up? And I'm the one who didn't really like be able to like take the opportunity the way I was supposed to do, which is another version of did I mess up? Right.
09:54
Either shouldn't I have been here or did I squander somehow like not do what I was supposed to do to be in a place that feels more vibrant or life-giving or good. So okay, so if it's not binary, then what are the other options? I think I'm beginning three and a half years in to be able to say, okay.
10:15
what am I learning that I wasn't aware of, right? Like my version of success and like, okay, if my practice looked like this, if my relationships looked like this, if my marriage looked like this, that means I'm successful. And I think it's been long enough to realize I'm in the incubator, I'm in the growing, like something's happening, but maybe just beginning to start seeing what that might be. Outside of the binary, I go, pardon me, goes Chris, like suffering is a fact of being alive.
10:44
It's not the way things are supposed to be, but like a man of humor and wisdom is Steve Colbert. I actually really appreciate, I appreciate his authenticity in any interview I've seen with him where he actually opens up about his faith. And there's a really poignant interview with him and Anderson Cooper talking about loss. And Anderson Cooper doesn't pull any punches asking Steve some hard questions about like how he's making sense of suffering. And I love how Colbert summed it up. He just says,
11:13
Because to be alive is a gift and to be alive is to suffer. And like those are just two of these things that are intention. That sounded nice when I think I even heard that bite like five, six years ago. And I think my mind at times has returned to that idea. At times I think remembering that helps me get out of this binary, but I don't have it solved. It's not like, well, just life sucks, deal with it. I think it's gotta be more than that. Yeah. I think the assumption is to your
11:43
experience that those three years are the three years of trying to figure things out and land there in the middle of such conflict in Minnesota and starting a practice and all those. The assumption is that if you had just stayed in Washington, then you would not have faced challenges. Yeah. And I can be really good at writing the alternate timeline where everything's really good over there. I think we all can.
12:10
If I had just chosen that line at the grocery store, or if I had just not moved my family over here or chosen this path, the assumption is that there is some other, I love how you just put that alternate timeline, that goodness would have resulted over there instead of the potential of it being equally challenging anywhere, any choice. Yeah. Wow.
12:39
The words that comes to mind is, as you're talking about, of the question of this is not, or the statement, this is not what I had hoped. Such an honest descriptor. And the word that comes to mind is just disillusionment. I am disillusioned with what, where, and what I find myself in. And I say this not, and I'm asking this because you're not the three point tie it in a bow guy, and I love that about you, but that feeling of as you have been in the disillusioned time,
13:08
What potential has that held or what invitation has that brought you as you think about life as gift and life as suffering? Because I would imagine that the easy response is like, this is not what I had expected. I don't want to sit in that space at all. Like let me just be cynical or super pissed or something like that. But it feels like there's, I'd imagine there's some sort of deeper invitation there. Can you speak to that? Yeah. I think three main things I would say about this.
13:38
You just can't set me up like that, Jesse. Sorry, sorry. I think what comes to mind for me, it was one, like being able to admit myself that I'm disillusioned. I think there was this strong performer of got to make it work, got to make it work. For the first time, I think more than ever, because I decided to like start my own business. So it's like, this isn't just like I can go and phone it in at work. Well guess what? I actually can. And that has huge consequences when you're trying to be responsible and be self-employed in those things.
14:07
But I think there was some denial around like, I don't even want to admit I'm disillusioned because I shouldn't be disillusioned. And there was that battle of like this alternate timeline, Nic, that even if he's here, he's full of confidence and connected to God and connected to himself and he's taking care of relationships and not real. So I think one, I had to just like wrestle with like, can I, can it be okay that I'm disillusioned? Can I be okay that this isn't okay? And I think the other thing recently,
14:36
Honestly, I feel like, God, it was maybe a couple weeks ago. Tears around, realizing, I think, what some of the wounds that this has brought up for me, my own expectations on myself, struggling with this whole thought I was further ahead because I thought I would have handled these challenges or these trials or these disappointments better. The piece that's beginning to emerge, I would say, is God going, Nic, what if it's okay that you're 40 and I'm pulling these things up out of you now, that I'm wanting to heal these places in you?
15:06
that you thought you were more healed here, or you thought you had dealt with this, and probably a much more linear process than life and God actually works in. And there was a beginning, I think, of a releasing of, can you trust me that it's okay that I'm pulling these things out of you now, that your disenfranchisement and your longing and your anxiety and your fear of, like, whatever midlife crisis, I'm 40, and I thought this was gonna be like, you know.
15:34
the tip of like something really awesome and just, you know, have, I never would have put this way, but I realized I had a lot of expectations of, oh, happily ever after, right? We move and things go great and like, yeah, it will be challenges, but not, I wouldn't have to find it like this stuff. And then doubt and existential, like where am I and who am I? And do I even like believe in like what I'm trying to counsel people that like God loves you and he wants to heal you? Like, so that's my first response is I think they've just been getting some buds of God just going.
16:03
can this be okay? That this is pulling stuff up out of you that I wanna tend to and not judging when it's coming out and how it's coming out, but that actually like, that God's like, I'm okay with this coming up out of you right now. And your heartache and your loss and your struggle and even the unhealthy ways that you're trying to deal with stress and disappointment, that's all. Like, I know what's coming up out of you, Nic. And I don't wanna tend to it now. I'm not like, yeah, you should have fixed this five years ago or 10 years ago.
16:33
Yeah. So that was, I think, the beginnings of some grace. Wow. I feel like that's such wisdom, just that even in kind of recognizing that our current situation circumstances is the opportunities that God uses to pull stuff up out of us to tend to. And that's not to say like, it's to make it easier, or it's not to put a little bow on it. It's not to say, hey, God's plan is good plan or whatever.
17:03
It's to say that just like you said that, and Colbert said that life is a gift and life is a struggle. And I think when we settle into the reality that I can live with gift and I can live with struggle and the both and can exist today in the midst of the disappointments, in the midst of the disillusionment, in the midst of the loneliness and challenges, like all of that, the struggle doesn't deny the gift and the gift doesn't deny the struggle. That feels important.
17:32
Yeah. Well, Nic, thanks so much for being a part of the show. Again, it's great to have you. And I feel like we just need to like dip the bucket into the well of wisdom that you bring even more and the goodness that you bring. And I hope that some of the listeners, you guys, as you're listening to Nic's story, you might find yourself in a situation similar where there was a great big move or a great big thing happening. And you're asking the question like, did I mess up? And I hope that.
18:00
somewhere in your journey, you can hear some experience from Nic on where he's been and is even, you just said, you're still in the midst of it. And I think there's places in my life that I can think, oh man, I need to go back to the journal, to the drawing board, to the prayer, to go like, oh Lord, what do you have for me in this space? So guys, thanks so much for being here today. Good to be with you. Thanks, Nic. Appreciate it, buddy. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Jesse. Good to be with you guys.