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A safe place to share, celebrate and unpack life's journeys.
Join us and special guests to discuss all things close to our hearts.
Podfire (00:00.162)
This podcast is brought to you by Meteor 8. We acknowledge and pay our respects to all First Nations people. In Australia, we honour the cultural connections and responsibilities of our custodians, past, present and future. This podcast is recorded on the lands of the Youganbe speaking people.
Podfire (00:34.222)
Welcome to Yarns with Linda and Preston. Well here we are for episode 7. We're grateful to have Norm back. Yes. We had Norm back episode 5. Before then you're speaking about a big trip out to Central Australia. Both you and Aunty Linda were excited about it Norm. We'll have time to catch up on that. But you've been good bud? Been very good. Busy. Yeah.
busy and try not to be busy. I don't know how that works but... would be quite difficult this day and age, wouldn't it?
Everything seems to overlap. Yes. You know, so I overlap on everything we do and just trying to find that space to take that breather. Just come back to this breath and then push on out into the big world again the next day. As soon as you wake up, you know, the brain's on. I've got to watch, I've got time, I've got to be here, this place. I've got to travel this way. Then I think.
I've got fuel in my car. And then off you go. know, without checking in with yourself. Have I carried anything from yesterday into today that could colour my viewpoint on today or this week or this month? Even this year, I bringing anything from the past into that today's opportunity to be present and to, you know, bring change, whatever that may be for us.
Yeah, it's important. You're always talking about the present. You're always talking about now. And we've spoken about it in the past, about us. You know, every now and again, it's nice to think about what was and maybe what is, but it's not always healthy for us, is it? To think back and think forward sometimes and, you know, depending on the position you are in today.
Podfire (02:44.118)
It's not always healthy for you. Not if you're using it as a, you know, to anchor in your mind. So the past can only live here. The future can only live in your head. If you're living there and if you've got an alternative reason to go looking for something because I want to make myself feel bad because I've just done something bad or something good's happening in my life and I don't trust it.
So I'm used to then trying to make myself hide behind other things. So we try and create controversy. We create distortion where we are not able to really be ourselves. And that's a place where an old story can live. So you're right. Living there is not good. To be mindful of it is like going up the highway, going to Brisbane or something like that.
Last time I knew that road flooded, like this morning coming up over the border and those roads were shut. I had to find another route. But if you stay in that place, you're just going to be sitting there in a rut. But then that's a part of our evolution too. We can learn from that when we're ready. Trying to talk the security or the police into letting you go through. Yeah, it didn't work.
See, well, they follow us there to keep us safe. That's right. You know, sometimes to keep us safe from ourselves, you know, but, you know, they get to play a role, you know, much like we do in society or in community. He was there to, you know, keep us safe. Same as parenting, right? Yeah. We think our parents were this and that. Yeah. You know, and they would just be in that policeman. And, I'm charged with the responsibility to make sure that, you know,
given my viewpoints and my life experiences and whatever to be able to make judgements of where you can and can't go or when and when you do that around whoever. We don't always agree with it like the policeman this morning. I had to submit. It was the law. And I was like, okay, because he's got a job to do. But that's the same as our parents being a parent these days.
Podfire (05:08.726)
or since forever. You charge with that responsibility, some step up to it, some step into it, some lean into it, some people do not. And there's that constant, you know, of letting us just talking to my oldest daughter here, she's 26, Jamila, just when you showed up and it was just that moment where probably two years she hadn't been listening to me on something and it's...
she said it, something's not working for her. And I didn't need to say I told you so or whatever. I was just happy as like, she's at that next, she sees that rock in her pathway. And now she sees that, she's owning how she got there. Now she's empowered through enlightenment on how she can go to the next stage in her life at 26 and moving forward. So beautiful to see that as a parent.
and which you would have seen on the weekend again. Yes. With Queen Illustrator. My Queen Illustrator. But it's amazing to, you know, and we all have that role. How do you get enjoyment out of that satisfaction? You know what I mean? Some of us as parents can sometimes be so rigid. then some of us can be flexible.
too flexible and I'm imagining, know, not everyone's perfect, especially as a parent. Not at all. But you need both, don't you? Self-assessment is one of the most hardest things as a human being in this experience to hold ourselves accountable to. Real, self-assessment. It's like driving in a car and up the highway, you've got a blind spot.
we all got that blind spot in our personalities, our behaviors. We only can see out that way. But what's it like when we have good people around us that can see, you're going too far that way in the lane, bring it back to the right. And we just did that in our road trip, you know, with a few cars heading to the central desert. And we had one of the best co-navigators at the back, Robin.
Podfire (07:34.606)
who was always just talking up what was coming up from behind, because we're a little bit slower in our motor homes. And she just was able to communicate that clearly. And then it got onto the next vehicle, and which then communicated up to me to tell me what was coming up. And then vice versa, was potholes or big kangaroos or emu on the road. Yes, definitely. How you communicate those things.
So I think going back to what you said, it's hard. You can be really rigid, but it's just that self-assessment. Sometimes our children challenge us for the better. But if you're confident in what you're speaking about, that doesn't really become a thing. You just say, well, no, that's just the way it is. Because it's a feeling, it's a gut instinct. That's just the way it is.
But when you need to press them, cause I'm going to look like I'm wrong, cause I'm older and I'm the father. So this, that's your ego. What we're talking about. We can step away back away from that more often, but definitely highlights our weaknesses and our strengths. And then as parents to say, you know what? I got it wrong. I'm sorry. to walk beside.
Too often we're so busy with having to be the leader or that I know the right thing and I'm doing this role because I know everything that's right and we forget to walk beside others whether it's as a parent or as a partner or auntie or uncle or even at work. We forget that ultimately it doesn't matter what age that
We need to walk beside everyone else and especially our children because we forget to learn from them the lessons that they have been brought into this world to teach us. It isn't our role to, it's our role to keep them safe and help them on their journey, but it's also our role to truly listen and learn from them and the lessons that are being missed are huge.
Podfire (10:01.748)
I know I reflect and go, okay, that was the lesson I probably should have learned last week when I was fighting with my little father. But I have to sit back and reflect and walk beside, celebrate together, cry together, and truly be equals. Even though my role is about keeping them safe and directing them in a certain way.
It's not that everything I say is right, because more often I'm probably wrong. I've got to admit that. Is that true? That I'm wrong? That I'm wrong? Yeah, don't think I've ever seen Auntie wrong. I you say anything wrong. ya. But it's one of those things. And look.
Kids, teach us a lot, you know, we've heard that a lot. But for me, on that self-reflection, they teach you a lot about yourself. Yes. You know, and you see where you can make adjustments to ensure that the relationship or your role, the responsibility that you have, you're able to do that to the best of your ability. And you can only do that when you understand that you have to grow as a parent as well.
You have to make adjustments to be a little flexible. But every now and again, you know that they can't be putting their hands in the fire or on the stove. So you have to be rigid in how you approach it. But even that, you have to do it in a way that's appropriate, respectful, the way you communicate it. Sometimes, even as parents, sometimes we can shame our kids.
And the more we shame our kids, the more they just, they go into their shells. They get shamed enough at school, they get shamed enough online. They look in the mirror and they shame themselves. us as parents, it's our role to keep them safe, is to protect them. And it's not to shame them. And no one went to let go.
Podfire (12:25.934)
gosh. When I literally... I don't know, think I need... Where's this going? Councilor, where are we going here? I don't know if I can handle this.
I don't like letting my babies go. But I know I have to. know I have to. You know, when we were all at some stage, you know, pulling ourselves up in a coffee table, grabbing dad's bloody jeans and dad turned around and going, hey, he's gonna walk. He's gonna walk. He's gonna walk. She's gonna walk. You take a couple of steps, you fall over. We didn't know fear back then. We didn't know for me.
two older sisters going and turn around and going, hey, my sisters, they did three steps. I'm a male, I've got a male body. I need to do three or more. Otherwise I'm a failure. You know, I can't be a man. I won't take that road. You fall over, you just get back up. You know, but then sooner or later, even though I love this, my baby's hands when they just, you know, just clutch onto you.
onto your finger, but then sooner or later they start letting go. They start letting go and you're like, come on, don't you need me anymore? Come on, just be a baby for a day. Now I start being a baby. The roles reverse them, but know when they, it's their lesson. It's their time. It's things coming full circle for them and they've got all of their answers right there. So for my kids, a whole seven of them.
is if I can stay in a good place mentally, emotionally, physically, then when they need some advice, sometimes, know, especially kids today, they don't really ask for your advice, but they are asking for your advice of when do you speak, when do you don't speak. But then that comes back to having that humility, is like, do I chance it and say something? No. Is this actually about them?
Podfire (14:35.944)
about me right now. And I think that's a big thing in our society. out? Yeah, exactly. Who am I talking to here? Sorry, was talking myself. I myself. that's one of the adjustments we have to make as we get older, as we become parents is...
Podfire (15:00.782)
Because you want to keep that strong relationship with your children. But if you're, for lack of a better way of putting it, sticking your nose in their business all the time, sometimes you can get further and further apart. Again, talk of shame. When we shame our kids, and sometimes we don't even realize we're doing it, they go under their shells.
That means they get further and further away from us. You know, sometimes our kids just don't want to talk to us for a reason and we should allow them that space. Absolutely. work it out. But always be there for them if they need us. That's a common thing across all relationships. know, just allowing people that space to come when they need to come. We just need to be more patient as parents. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's a big task.
It's hard, but there's no greater feeling than to, like you did with your daughter this morning, see your child making that next step and being able to celebrate who they truly are and celebrate the great decisions that they make in their lives. There's no greater feeling than that. And I think not only with your children, but others.
around you that if we learn to celebrate others, truly celebrate like it's your celebration, it's like the best feeling. look and encourage it. Yeah. We have to be happy for them. Yes. It's one of those things and I don't know, can I just shift the, just a little bit? I'll talk a little bit about rugby league.
no. I It's something that I didn't really take much notice of. But you know, Penrith Panthers, over the last five years, they've been in a grand final. First one they lost, but the next four they've won. That should be something that we celebrate. Yeah. You know, that's an amazing feat. It's inspiring. You know, we need to look into what they're doing so that we can take parts and put it in our own way so we can
Podfire (17:25.506)
find success much like they have. Whatever they're doing, it is inspirational. But I'm hearing so much negativity around like Penriff won four premierships. I think it's amazing. I'm so happy for them. But you have some people out there that are just like, for all reasons, I don't know, for all reasons, just to put them down. Is it because they're so great? Or...
What is it? I can't understand. I suppose I'm trying to ask a question. It's like, why do we criticize and judge so easily? Yeah. And these guys have been successful and I know it's rugby league, but we see it. We see it a lot in society. It's not just rugby league. It's human natures. Yeah. Human nature. Yeah. Characteristics, attitudes that come from. Yeah. But I feel like that attitude of like judgment and
having to pull each other down is learnt. Because I think if we go back to what would come naturally, I don't know that our, and that's where we could learn from our babies and our children. You see kids when they're young will go to a playground and easily play with other children. They don't hold that judgment or say to other children, you're doing that.
All they do when they get a bit older, but when they're younger, they don't have that. I think it's learned and I don't think it's a great lesson that society has. I think that so much more can be gained when we support each other and we celebrate each other. But that goes against how society is maintained. You look at Parliament House, this side or the other side.
And then I've got to make you look bad. So then I look good. And that justifies my existence in this party. But I don't know for as long as I know people who have confidence within themselves, don't put other people down. People who are in peace within themselves have that inner dimension and peace. So going back to what you said, when people are throwing throwing off at
Podfire (19:53.294)
at them, penrith or any successful, it's something that's different that I don't understand and that learnt behaviour then is to break it down so I don't, it doesn't highlight my weaknesses because I may be wrong and my ego is fragile. So I need then to make noise to then bring the masses on social media and get those likes to say, yeah, I'm right now, I can blend in.
And then whoever makes the loudest noise, the loudest or the most ticks or what he likes on something, then that gets heard. You know, but really, I think I said it last time, looking at actually what confidence or how confidence, true confidence is portrayed in society, because that's what is teaching our children.
And it's not confident at all just because I can make more noise and get other people. Cause some of us are just busy doing our own lives. I mean, we can't match it with them and go toe to toe in a, in a debate without putting somebody else down, without making that person wrong and bad to justify my decision or my choices. So that's why I keep always saying going back to.
the kids are the key. They are that allowing them to be those teachers to remind us of our inner child to connect with and move forward. Now, if we go and try and fix society too much as adults, now, that's, it's already on the downhill, you know, catching it on the up hop, like that, on the up hop, so when they...
children are, or those human beings are coming into form, their forms growing, their brain capacity is growing, their information being absorbed is like a super highway and allowing them to be in a, where they feel safe, secure and a healthy environment longer than,
Podfire (22:10.84)
They feel more comfortable with that. They don't get so challenged. What'd you call me? What'd you say? I love a saying I stole from somebody, a current member, but there's lots of them. People who stand tall don't fear crooked shadows. People who stand tall do not fear crooked shadows. I know that's not my shadow, but somebody said it is, and now they've got numbers.
Now got to, if I'm not confident within my truth, and by the way, can't, another one I stole, can't humiliate a humble person. know what they've done. They know where they've been, where they haven't been, what they haven't done. But we're so conditioned, then I've got to justify myself. And there's a lot of good people that can do it without having to justify themselves. But these day and age, a lot of people are having to come out and speak up.
A lot of people are having to come to that discussion that's based on such dysfunctionality where it is non-communication. is the narrative is designed, that framework is designed to create more fear, anxiety, the very thing we don't want. And it comes underneath one banner, ego. Bullshit doesn't discriminate.
right when in fact there's probably five rights. yeah. And I come to say if it comes down to your motive, what's your motive? You know, is it if coming from the right place and I honestly think this is the way it is and I feel that is having that self assessment. Do I just need this to get out and tell those people how it is or I just can share my point of view and am I open to listening? Are you hearing?
You can have, everyone should have a point of view. But it's more valid when you can hear, truly hear the other people's points of view. Instead of, this is my point of view, I've got to prove it no matter what. I'm going to sit here and listen to you because it's a process, but I'm not really listening to you. Or considering.
Podfire (24:37.28)
your words in what I believe. And that there highlights
That's highlighting the people's inadequacies. It highlights where there is no confidence. Confidence doesn't look like that. True confidence doesn't look like when you're just having to talk over people. And I'll just nod and say hello and yes, but really don't like you. Really don't. Sometimes you have to do that. But when you've got meaningful conversations on how to...
protect our children, our planet, our wildlife, our ecosystem, and our elderly. Doesn't matter what color skin or your mammal or your bloody marsupial. It doesn't matter. When you're coming from the heart, all beings are equal. It's all part of creation. But the ego, the only species on the planet has this type of mind, it's us.
Keeping it simple is very difficult for us on some days. Going back to when it's enough, when can I let go of my children's hands or my workmates and their opinions and their acceptances of me and where do I stand? And I think that's a constant shedding of our egos and that self-assessment of what's working and what's not working for me. What am I like as a friend? What am I like as a brother?
What am I like as a husband, as a father? What's it like on the end of me? I can tell you what it's like from this point of view, looking outwards. I'm sure my children and wife will let you know. I think every one of my children probably have a different thought about that at any one time. Yeah. Depending on what they're going through and how I show up for them.
Podfire (26:49.198)
So whether it's Penrith or it's Robbie Lee, but like you said, all relationships, that's the adopted behavioural space where it's to control that narrative, to control somebody else. I've got to make someone else look bad in order for me to be heard. Now that there should be an advert on TV, you know, and not political, not a race, not an age.
That's just a human trait and human behavior. When we look like that, that actually tells us you don't feel adequate right now. You feel you're out of your own depth and, or you don't feel like you, it's not acceptance, self-acceptance. And now you need to portray something and throw something out there to throw shade and judgment. It's okay. You don't need to do that. You're allowed to feel that. Yes. But we also have.
responsibility to stand right beside people when they are feeling that. Yeah. To help them through that. Yeah. Not make them feel worse in that. Meet them where they're at. Yeah. You need to be here. Work beside. Yeah. Yeah. You need to be here in life at this age and do this and this and this. It's like no, that's not where that person's at. Yeah. They don't have that capacity right now. They have the capacity.
but they're lost in something else. And that tool will come to the forefront. We all have those great tools. Every single one of us, isn't something you learn in life. I think you've more so learned when to use it. When it becomes apparent, then you're forced, I think pain, fear, anxiety, so that type of stuff is the biggest teacher. That will make you have to let go of things, of your ego and challenge yourself.
That's the biggest driver for change.
Podfire (28:53.292)
make you feel vulnerable, force you into vulnerability? The practice of that, what you're talking about, when we feel vulnerable, pain, grief, loss, what I've seen a lot of late, there's so much loss in society, in community, like my community in particular, we've seen so much loss. But the response from that,
Podfire (29:25.838)
probably hasn't been as positive as you'd hoped, you know what I mean? Like there's ways to deal with things and you speak of capacity. I think as human beings, we have the capacity to do great things, you know? But we also have had the capacity to do some of the most heinous things in the world, you know? Whether it's history, whether it's right now, and maybe into the future. It's just what capacity...
Do we want to feed the most, you And I can only speak on what I've seen in terms of loss over the last 18 months or so. There hasn't been too much change in these people. You know what I mean? We revert back to the things that keep us there wanting to get across that flooded water. You know, we don't want to take that longer road, that longer journey.
to make sure we get to the place where we need to be. You know what I mean? And we see it a lot in our communities. know we've spoken about it in the past, Andy, you know, we see a lot of drinking, we see a lot of fighting. That's how we deal with things. You know what I mean? And it keeps us stuck. We don't move forward from that. And you spoke a little bit before on some of the memories that we have in the past.
When I go back home, those stories always come up. Those stories that made them feel, at the time, made them feel good. And it's the only memory that they have, the only good memory that they have. there's so many great memories they can make moving forward. But they revert back to that time that they feel good. They feel on top of the world. And I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but I just feel that
where we can acknowledge where we're at. Whether it's just us as an individual, acknowledge where other people are in because that's what we're talking about. We need to acknowledge what's going on or how other people are feeling because when we can acknowledge somebody else, it actually makes you feel good. Say good-ay and be really genuine in that. It makes people, makes you feel good.
Podfire (31:51.554)
Yeah, because you don't suffer a loss. No, it doesn't. Because I've done something for somebody else, even if somebody was rude, and I didn't have to react to it. And just because it could have been over social media or in front of people. Nothing about me is diminished. It's my my sense of self, my false sense of self, the story then gets challenged. But when you stand in your truth, you're not your story.
You can't be your story. You live through those memories. You live through those moments in the present moment. So you cannot, it's nothing is diminished. And when you really accept that, have self-acceptance of your true worth, your true self, this beautiful, powerful, limitless being that then gets to function through this body. Somebody else's thoughts, they're just telling me about their thoughts and their makeup at their mouth hole.
It's coming out their mouth what's in their brain. Did you say mouth hole? But you know, yeah, I did. But you know, it's, they're just telling me right now what's in their brain and it's coming out. And there's a difference when people are speaking from thought or memory or the brain. And when people, as they say, speak from the heart, it's a different.
It comes across different, the energy is different because you got to sit there to connect what feels right, not what's good for right now. Just to attain something or to run away from something or run to something. Having that ability to anchor and then even though in adversity when you're having things thrown at you, being able to know that you can, without the judgment like you're saying.
And I don't like that, because that's bringing up, that's challenging my thoughts. It's challenging my feelings. I'll use Pauline Hanson, some of these other jockeys, radio jocks, and some of the stuff that's designed to do certain things. I use them when I listen, I see the rise in me. You that If you're having that reaction of fight or flight, at what point do you actually, I have to physically stop and go, okay.
Podfire (34:18.026)
I need to actually put a mirror up to them because what they're saying is coming from them. But I, and I've got to not react to that. Yeah. That it's a place that they're coming from. And that when you are truly within yourself and that's that, you know, you're not diminished when you hold true, but you can't help but feel.
a reaction to that and that's about how we understand that reaction and I guess cut it off at the pass a bit. And come back to, okay, let's flip that mirror, flip it back to yourself and be true to yourself in your reaction. Respond, don't react. Exactly. And they're the type of teachers I listen to, I look at and I just go, well, there's
Because otherwise I'm still the kid up at the corner at the bus stop being called all different types of names. And I need to stamp that out. Who said? I took that upon myself then to start fighting kids in the neighborhood and then at school to try and control that because it comes from fear. So it was taught to me that I didn't really need to go and do that.
in order for me to just sit there and realise they're just speaking about themselves. Yes. You know, don't know. can see I can actually see a beauty in that because now I don't need to change myself in order to not feel something. There's no different. I didn't know that I was this light skinned kid going to a school in Southport and getting called every name under the sun and then going out.
with mob and then getting called name from there and you belong in a city, you go by you this and like, I remember eight going, where do I belong? What am I? And at that age, I remember thinking, I know the difference between a good person and a bad person. Yes. And didn't matter if you were my auntie, my uncle, a teacher. I just knew the energy was different and I've been both good and bad. but I think, you know,
Podfire (36:42.126)
going back to looking at how people carry on, but there's always a lesson for us of, you don't stand there in one spot, keep getting hit in head either. You you got to stand up for yourself. There's a way in doing it, you know, for some of us.
I can just see you. I can't get that vision out of my head. But it's one of those things, understanding that it's going to make you feel a certain way. Yeah. You know, and that's why it's important when it comes to the ego. And, know, we talk about it a lot again. It's about being able to manage that so that we are able to respond in a way that's appropriate. Because we're not responsible for how people treat us. You know, we're responsible for how we respond or react.
react to it. And we see it a lot people react to it and they end up being the one that gets in the most trouble. Yep. You know what mean? We see it a lot in school, school yards, we see it in the public, you know, we see it on the footy field. You get penalized if you you react. And it may be justified, but it doesn't always work out for you. Well, I could have kept going back to that policeman. Yeah, I could have went back up to my home and then
Start out the driver to key out, close it all, get back in. I'll go down and it again. He's not moving. And so the insanity of keep trying to change something or that I've got no control. So what does it say about me? I need you to change. I need you to accept me and my point of view, what I've put together for me to feel whole. I was fucking born whole. I was born a limitless being. My story has got all these definitions of what that looks like.
when I'm not courageous about what I am courageous about, what I do have confidence in, what I feel inadequate about, but the world we go around to put ourselves in different positions, work, friends, clubs, whatever, then that there's acceptance. And I've got all these people working for me to validate my existence, but that's tiring.
Podfire (38:58.958)
And I need you today and I'm not having a good day. So I need, I'm going to ring this person up and they'll feel sorry for me. Or that person will say, yeah, you should have just gone and said something back on that post or whatever it is. But holding friends that they go, Hey, what are you doing? Plenty of times, you know, like on the trip, just up the front leading and I'm looking at kangaroos and that blend in.
to the highway, big balls. So my focus is just pinging. And then someone from behind can say, your tail light's out or, you know, something's coming up from behind. That's when you have that community effect or that friendship effect that isn't a positive impact. And that's one word you've used a lot is having impact.
So yeah, it's strange how we then grow up and everyone's got to fit inside my box, which then serves me. That's selfish, because they've got their hurts, they've got their bruises, they've got their qualities. And even if that's the case, if we do that for other people and be that crutch for them all the time, we are taking away their true opportunity to be their full self.
They must experience what they're experiencing right now. There's an answer there. Life goes, every stone we throw, every seed we plant goes full circle. And here it comes back, metaphysically, universally, here it comes back. What have you done? Are you going to deal with that maybe different situation, but the energy is the same, different person, different time, different place. But as an old thing that comes up when they say something.
And that's no longer that kid on the corner, but the reaction of where that came together when I first felt that there was a core belief system that was made. Now I need to be able to be present on that and see that before I react on that rather than get into it and then try and figure it out later. See, I haven't changed. I am from the wrong side of the tracks. I am what all those people said. Then the ego's there going, yeah, that's right.
Podfire (41:25.326)
Feel sorry for yourself. sorry for yourself. yourself up. Yeah. what happens in? Lash out. Well, then you find the right people again. Yeah. They say, okay, and you lick your wounds and then you start to re develop yourself again. Different way, different time when I'm ready. I always say to people, I'm going through this, I'm going through that. So when are you ready? When you're not ready to, you're not finished with holding onto that pain. That's your friend, man. Or that hatred, you calling them out.
It's called self-hatred, not other people hatred. I've never heard that terminology or other people hatred. That's, that's you self-hatred, self-worth, self-esteem, self. So your name doesn't mean what they're doing is not good or right, but you don't need to call them out from that space of ego that they've won four in a row. And there's got to be some conspiracy behind it.
The referee helped them, they're cheating. They come up with all reasons for why they, why can't we just say it. They worked hard. They created a culture there. They got skillful players, they got talented players. how they've been able to work as a team, as a club, they've built some sort of environment there that just breeds.
breeds success, breeds confidence, breeds trust, all of that sort of stuff. Why can't we just be happy for them? And why can't we look at what they're doing so that we may be able to take something we can put into our lives? It should be motivating. You know what I mean? I just found it interesting because I played for Penrith for four years. And they asked me, because I was a player for Penrith. And I'm honest about them.
about it, say I'm so happy for them. You know, I get inspired by this. I'd love to know in depth more how they've got here. You know, love to hear individual stories from the players, from the coaches perspective, but a club as a whole, because I know they've got a lot of people around them that are there, being there for them and just get the idea. Because that's, yeah.
Podfire (43:43.586)
That's why they've been successful. They've got this idea that's maybe, may not be different from this other club, O'Rear. They're just doing it in a way that's a little different. You know what I mean? Has that changed, like with the couch surfers or the internet surfers, has that changed, do you think, over the years since sports started or in this, since footy, where was the old school, like they're just, we lost, they're good on them. And now we've got to hate them because...
Is that where we're at? But it's been a thing for a long time. I just didn't realise it. Maybe because four in a row, they've won four in a row and that's an amazing feat in today's terms. mean, it's amazing back in the day as well. Well, I understand that being Queensland, you know, we had. Yeah. But it's not a fluke. No, it's not a fluke. It's not a fluke. But
It just amazed me and I just wanted to ask the question because it's been sitting with me for a while. I've had so many people come to me. They ask me what it's like. More than happy to tell me that how much they hated Penrith and how much the referee helped them during the year and how they were cheating. They're just really strong in their opinion of it or their view of it. And then when I say I'm happy for them.
Yeah, it's just, I don't know, I don't know it sits with them, but I just think it's great that we're able to experience something so beautiful. know what I mean? And it's something that we don't celebrate enough. We need to uplift more. We shouldn't be bringing them down, you know? Definitely. And we should be...
taking things from their success. There's lessons here. There's lessons, yeah. I think, like I'm forever saying, know, maximise the attention for positive behaviour and minimise the attention for negative behaviour. So, you know, we've got a platform now where everyone can just spit out because they've lost a bet or they don't like that team for whatever their make-up is and that team of those...
Podfire (46:09.772)
nationalities or the coach and his son and the father and son dynamics. could be people that just got so much distrust as in father and son relationships and that's just wrong. It's so many, but then I think it's a good lesson if we take that one step further of what we give our attention to. know, once again, that self assessment and being able to put some space in between that and just go, that breather.
and then just acknowledge where that is and how that gets done. And then what am I doing in my life? How do I communicate myself? Because then there's a, you cut ties to that and it's not then breeding so much, you know? And as we know, we see so much happen. There's this big thing that happens when there's a reaction over the internet or the news and in society, sooner or later it just dies off.
You know, somebody gets in trouble in sports for doing something that just dies off. Well, yeah, the season ends and another one comes back around. It's like, we'll forget about what happened last year. We'll just move on. And then that goes back to taking it to the kids, like you said, is what do they remind us about ourselves? What's the most fruitful, nourishing things that we have that cost us nothing?
It may cost us our ego. But we're all going like I keep saying, and we're all going to the same place. No one's getting out of this life alive in this form. you you're sort of like in an airplane and going up, there's these cliffs and it's not going to lift. You're seeing movies and they start chucking out all that extra shit to get over. They don't have enough fuel or they can't get over the Alps.
from whenever to take the seats out. know, so in life, I think you get old and you start chucking out that junk. It's not so valuable because it doesn't matter to me anymore. Go young man. Yes, you could do this to me and that. I wouldn't like to see what I'd be like on the front door of a nightclub after doing that for 14 years. You know, you had to stand there and really meet. And my job was to protect them from themselves.
Podfire (48:33.964)
My job wasn't then to go, well I'm that kid on the corner in Southport and now is my opportunity. I've got the law on my side. No, it's like, what are you doing? We all have that conscience. And we've got, you either be truthful to that or you're not.
But yeah. But life's in perfect.
If you're going to have a commentary, you're always going to find an imperfection. It's guaranteed. If you're going to focus on it, you're going to find it. If you're hell bent on pointing it out, you're going to find something. it's negative or positive. Nothing's perfect. Exactly. What's insane, because even if you think something, the clock's right. A broken clock that's broken is right twice a day.
So you're saying it's the same thing. Even if you're just going to focus on negative, you're going to find it. You're going to it. You'll create it. You don't need to look far to find you want to your focus on something else, you know? Yeah. What do want to focus on? Something that's positive or something that's going to make yourself and everyone else feel horrible? Yeah. It's like, yeah, OK, mate. You know, you're right. Those Panthers, yeah.
Anyway, that's all bagging on them and feel horrible with you. got energy for drama. too old. I used to sneak across from school, because we live right across from public school and I can smell my mum cooking the damper from across the road and I run over, lunchtime, days of our lives on. I was saving and throttling in the drama.
Podfire (50:24.974)
Yeah. What's going to happen today? this is something that we love. We're addicted to dramas. Yeah. it's that sensation. There's the information we see, we hear, we smell, we taste, we touch, and we relate that to a feeling or a sense in a dimension. we carry it, like you said, when you go home, you feel that you can feel those good things or remind me of home. Yeah. You know.
And as you get older, the drama sort of starts to drop off. know? Or you like to hope so. if you had enough. bigger focus. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. You know, I think so. I'm doing a bit of self-assessment as I'm thinking there. Never have enough. That's a good segue actually. And I know this episode is about you and about your trip out.
Yeah, we haven't gotten on the road yet. So before before we sort of touch on that a little bit, I'd like to ask why? Why what? Why did you feel the need to take this trip? That's a good question. It's because I know you'd been talking about it for a long time now you've done it. Yeah. But
I was actually quite interested in knowing why you felt like you needed to go. And to part two, Prosto's question then, and the reason why you started out is that has it changed any what or any moments you sat in, whether it's along the road or at the rock? Yeah. Did that get clearer or was it?
something deeper. Which is questions for you as well. Cut out more of it. Go on. But for me it was, and I think it's hard to explain what has been hard for me to explain because people kind of just say, you went out on this trip, you had a great road trip, but the essence of it was so different to that. So
Podfire (52:53.975)
What happened was that we were literally sitting around the fire on the beach when we had a discussion that norm goes regularly and as soon as it came out of our mouths, I had an overwhelming feeling that, just needs to happen. Like this is something that needs to happen and something that I felt very connected to.
And almost like nothing is going to stop this now. Like we put it out into the universe and it happened. And I knew, I just knew with every inch of my body that it was going to happen, regardless. And that it was a healing pilgrimage, but it was a trip.
based on our connections and our feeling. So we had to feel this trip. And we had many things thrown at us, but we knew that no matter what, it was going to happen. But we were led as well. So it was going in knowing that we couldn't set a clear structure. We knew roughly,
where we were going, but how we were getting there and how it was going to go and we needed to be led in that. We needed to be directed organically to take that journey and connect all together and know that what was going to happen, we weren't in control of. We needed to just go with that. And it stemmed back then obviously.
it's in conjunction with your charity and it's about walking the walk, driving the walk, driving the road, the journey, driving the journey, living and breathing the essence of love and connection, which is what the charity is about. And it's, living and breathing that.
Podfire (55:18.54)
we can walk beside trauma.
we can walk beside trauma together and be led in the right direction for the right reasons. So that's sort of, and you've got to be there to sort of see and feel that and understand that. And the moments that came were totally unexplainable and something that you've got to feel when you're there. But that I hope through that we can
further connect with people, connect with people that are on their life journey of trauma and know that we are right there beside them, that through love our journeys can keep moving forward and we can get stronger. And we kind of enacted that, I guess, on this journey because we were throwing some pretty amazing curve balls and challenges.
on the journey. wasn't just, let's go on the road and have a great time. It was go on the road, have to connect, proper connect with each country that we went through. And in that you're connecting not only with the country, but the essence of that country, the animals, the environment, the everything. And you can physically see the changes as you drive.
along and that things happened that were completely unexplainable, completely unplanned, but we knew that was, we accepted that's what had to happen and we worked through it together.
Podfire (57:07.756)
So it was incredible and something that we want to grow and build on that others will have that opportunity to travel that journey or feel that journey with us, whether it's physically coming on that journey with us that we plan to do more regularly now and build that.
or whether it's actually walking beside people in their trauma for them to know that they are not alone and that through love we will get through this.
So Norm, can we speak a little bit on trauma? And thanks for that, Auntie. You get a chance to tell your side of the story as well, but trauma is something that I have a little bit of trouble in understanding. We'll probably have our own views on it all, but do you think trauma, or in your opinion, is trauma something that's
ever gonna leave us? And,
How do we manage trauma?
Podfire (58:33.112)
Trauma can leave, it can be healed. And the first step is acknowledging something of what's there. The emotional residue of a past event. You can't get trauma from the future. So there's a pasting. circumstance, there's been a leisure residue of emotion.
There's certain frequency that's trapped in the body, an energy field, and there's a thought attached to that and it manifests itself through illness. It can manifest itself in relationships. So healing, which is what you were just talking about, all of those steps, the preparation, the discussions, along the way we've got the basics of life to go through and that's part of the framework of this big trip, the pilgrimage, is then
You can do all the basics, but still kind of have curve balls. And then, but knowing that I'm not alone, the biggest thing for me was knowing for the first time since I started the charity, if I couldn't get there, which I'm telling you, there was a lot of things happening in my family dynamics. There was trauma being activated that had.
mental composites were then being activated and it was showing up everywhere and I just knew for the first time that the message or the energy of that healing journey was going to get there if I couldn't get there and that was a really beautiful thing for me where I didn't feel I had the responsibility to take it and
but then have that self-assessment, am I doing everything I possibly can? There was a few things happening big time in my inner world, in my inner family, and that could have seen me just go, no, can't go, can't go. And then there was some beauty that come from that, because I made the decisions to go, and I had to catch up with these women. They were already gone, and were holding space.
Podfire (01:01:01.368)
for this. So there's that healing dynamic of trauma that happens. It does leave. So no matter what happened on that trip, what I'm trying to say is there's always a way forward. You leave that last country, you leave that last moment, then it's in our head or we have an emotional connection to it. But that can dissipate.
and the universe always shows us what we're holding on to. But if we let our brain then go, it's about this and I need to solve that answer or that feeling, I'll find it in a future event, which is never the future. Or if I can understand the past, then that will, I'll feel peace, because that's all we ever want is to feel loved, to feel safe and to feel peace, which is our true essence, not.
I feel peaceful now because of this. So I feel loved because of that person said that it's that transcendence into love, the energy field of what that is beyond our personality and behaviours and why we go the wise. So yeah, it does heal. And what was the second part? I can't remember. Just your experience in the trip. mean,
I suppose you just answer that now. And not all journeys are gonna be, you know, from one point to the other, You're have something which sounds like it happened to you. Other points are gonna come up and you might need to come back. Well, I did. We only got four hours into it. And then things had to turn around. I had to turn around. I had to get my family home safe. Then that promoted, you where I tell myself I'm the man.
I'm the head of the household and I've got to be here and do these things. But then it takes away, you know, with my wife needs to be able to stand in her truth and her strength and her power. And then step aside, mate. You know, who's saying that she can't handle this right now? I'm just scared. And which I said to her, I'm scared of this, and I'm scared of that. And that gave her the ability. She said, well, I'm scared of those things too. They are real. But then
Podfire (01:03:24.586)
experiencing or looking at those dynamics, if I stay, everything's still going to be all right. We're still going to that place. So getting on that trip, that's what it really represents. Getting on the road for a couple of weeks through some storms, I got some bad shots on the way home with the dust storm that chased me across South Australia.
out of Northern Territory. Across into Port Augusta. I was just probably two kilometres in front of this for a long time. so there was so much adversity. But the journey was different, the essence of that meeting that trauma. So if we ask children to show up in life and they've been given some of the worst
hands you could possibly get, you've got to experience that. You can't get any growth in being comfortable all the time. And it's living on the edge of like, you know, I've got this. And then challenging the mindset. I know you can't do this. You can't go any further. Now you can just, well, actually you can. What happens if I keep going? And being at peace with decisions we have in life.
and reflecting that back to kids. So we're trying to grow that trip out there to have more people, which we've got a few ideas to have different organisations come along with us next year. And so everyone experiences that trip alone. And like you said before, everyone's trauma is different. Everyone's perception of trauma is different. But it's not our journey to understand other people's trauma.
Our journey is to understand our own, our own strengths, our own weaknesses. When you know that and you meet that, that's when you truly connect and relate to other people. Because it's not me telling you how you are or how you should be. I can only speak for myself. I truly own that. So that was the trip out there, which was incredible because I had the...
Podfire (01:05:50.476)
three beautiful women, strong women, their spirits along with me on this journey and you know, going, just making those milestones as simple as, you know, looking after the tyres on your vehicle because you just can't roll into the next servo or ring up a tyre, an RMA and say, hey, I've got a flat tyre, this one's shredded. So it's the preparation before it, looking at the motor homes, looking at your stops where there's any
fires happening, whereas any flooding on your route, connecting to country, the essence of that. So was a continual self-assessment. And as a group, as a collective, that we've got this. And then getting to the rock, which just, you know, everything just drops off. And that energy, as we've all felt, it's just...
your story, your reasons why, what you started out to get there is no longer, you're basking that feeling or that sense you get from the central desert. I have not felt that anywhere else that I've traveled in the country, the place, even if you close your eyes and you can't see the rock. Just that essence, that energy, I don't know anywhere else that's got that same.
So that's the pinnacle of it is pushing through all the adversity that comes with it. And allowing it to guide us. Yeah. So we had a really rough idea, but we also went into it going wherever we're led, we're led. Yeah. And that was one thing you guys said to me, because there's multiple times when things were happening and you in particular just kept saying, you know,
You just let us know. You just let us know when you, where can we catch up? Are you going to get to this point? We're happy just to stay in New South Wales. Yeah. We're happy just to go there. So there was all that the message was still going to be given. Absolutely. The game plan may have changed a bit. Yeah. You know, we've got these vehicles, vehicle of life that we're sitting in and the message in essence doesn't change. It's just coming through those motions. So, you know,
Podfire (01:08:20.492)
coming off the back of that trip was and is still
Podfire (01:08:27.596)
just gives you, for me, gives me more deeper gratitude and the million thoughts I had in my head of why I can't go, I defeated.
Podfire (01:08:40.664)
but it also kind of started and ended with connections that kind of went, yeah, this is meant to happen. So we all gathered at Lennox Head to leave altogether from there. And that would have been about the middle of the day, I think it was, about the middle of the day. we were there and we had whales.
dolphins, like everywhere, was like the perfect natural send off. were like wishing you well, left with that sense of connection. And then coming back, because we both came back at different times through different routes. So you came back through New South Wales, we came back through Queensland. But I knew that the trip had to end with us back together again.
So I'd come down and we then gathered at Yamber and straight across the road from where we were staying in the field were like two of the biggest Mibbin I have ever seen. And they were just there in the field. And it was like, well,
they have said, because so Mibbin, which is the eagle, which is my totem, were there at the end of the trip. And it was like, that's it, like you've done well. And we'd connected and we connected there and it was just beautiful and perfect and no coincidence. Like, no coincidences at all. And then, of course, along the way, there was a lot of other connection points and very clear.
and obvious natural connection points and messages that we were getting from country, that they were looking after us on the way and that it was right.
Podfire (01:10:55.468)
So, you know, to me that was, we got very clear messages from country to say, you're doing the right thing. Yeah. For the right reasons. Comes from love. Yes. It's about the healing of the trauma. Yep. And then kids, no matter how they're raised, are gonna experience that human condition. And then if we can reflect back of our journeys of what is a way or a measure to be able to deal with that.
said before, is to manage those things, then they've already got that, those qualities, those tools, but then they don't know when to use it. You when do I have to go and use these things and how? So, you know, the whole trip, the the charity is just about that. You know, it's not just about children, it's what you find in yourself through that journey and sharing that back.
to our youth. So it goes full circle. And at the end, the children came together. Yeah. It was like the children came together at the end of the trip and it was perfect.
Podfire (01:12:14.284)
And I think too, we've, you were missed, you know, we're like, first day could be here. We're like, here we are flying out here. What do we do, our kids? But we knew too, you know, we sat there and that you had a place where you needed to be. You were with us. Your wisdom was carried with us. We meet that wisdom and it's a part of us. you know, I was at the second day there.
I went out to rock and rode around the rock by myself. I think you went to Cattatudum. Yes. And, but I was able to sit there and feel your energy. And I just asked for guidance, you know, how we can then grow something that's bigger than us.
That's of that particular, you know, why would bring in other organisations, other companies, other businesses, other people's journeys along this journey yearly or maybe every second year. It's a big drive. But how do we get that message out? And the state of affairs that what's on this planet, we can't fix all the things that everyone's doing.
But we can focus on what doesn't need fixing. Is the essence of ourselves and which is children. They don't need fixing. It's like society, we mess them up so we can fix them. You know, that justifies this job and this job and this job. But even then, don't do it because of that. Just have acceptance of just how beautiful they are. Let them guide us. What's a Whitney Houston?
song. Okay, don't start singing. Teach them well and let them lead the way. And you were with us, you know, the wonders of technology, were, because you were out on country as well in different parts, for different reasons. And we connected with each other to check in on both of our journeys. So, you know, you were certainly
Podfire (01:14:32.268)
with us along the way, which was really nice. I don't know how we went so long without seeing each other, mate. We have withdrawals. I think sometimes I got a couple cuddles out. I'm not Preston. Big sooks. Where's my brother? Yeah, right. But even though physically we weren't there.
All together, we were there in spirit and there were so many others too. And that was, you know, almost like the heart of it because that's what we want for our children to feel, right? Feel that they're always there with us and we're taking a journey together and stuff. And that's what we want on a yearly basis. Somebody's going.
Not exclusive. Whether it's from athletes to bloody businesses to schools or whatever that could get there. Somebody can go and activate that energy of that healing message. Bring the right energy. Bring the right energy, experience it, see how you start out, what's your purpose there, when you get there, what have you learnt and when you get home? How do you summarise all that together?
And once again, it enhanced your things can enhance our experience, but it doesn't enhance our sense of self. Our sense of self is already there. So it's our experience and relationships to those external things within ourselves. So whether it's food, whether it's schooling, education, driving a vehicle, it's those relationships. So for me, as you know, chocolate.
Still struggling. But, and learning that. And if you learn yourself, you learn other people. And if you learn other people, you can reflect back. And I don't need everyone in the world to accept me, to love me, to see me in order for me to live my life. And so these people behind the keyboards, you know, saying what they say.
Podfire (01:16:54.548)
out in the world with no accountability, they're really telling us. I think one thing for mob, you know, we still show up to the march. There's NAIDOC weeks, there's so many things we go to. And I don't see the rest of Australia do those types of things. They don't have those big marches. And that's something we do have, because we, you said it, we have responsibility.
And it's something that gathering that comes together, what comes from that, that voice is stronger, that energy field is stronger. How many times I wish it wasn't like this, but it is. It is. So we can stand in our truth and it's not about oppression and it's not about stopping anything, acknowledging what is here, which is that bigger dimension. Then people also invite other people's point of views into that conversation.
where they don't feel so threatened because a lot of people have grown up to be able to control the narrative, have to be right and they need to be the conductor when it's okay. You don't need to. You don't need to. We come together to look at all the social media stuff that's going on around the under 16, from 16 and under.
can't use social media. the band. The band. Yeah, You know, once again, it's in it's inciting a conversation, you know, whether it's good conversation or not, then but where do you sit with that? And is there any good points about it? What are they really saying? Why are they doing that? Where does that come from? And is anything that we leave? I think that's humans around the earth.
leave so many things open to when the police need to get involved. You know, then they don't, they're not meant to do that. Then there's got to be a department. It's got to be built. What is the human accountability? No matter who you are. Where we all step up. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how I think change in behaviour can come when you're acknowledging that, you know, what's my part, responsibility like is.
Podfire (01:19:19.598)
said, it's too easy. Sometimes in life just turn around, I don't want this. Go back to bed today. Do a U-turn. Keep knocking on the door what's not working. Keep talking to that police officer. Please, mate. Please let me through. It's not working, mate. Take the road that's less traveled. You just got to do it sometimes. It's got to do it. And it's not always as bad as what you're going to think. And you have those highlights, girl.
Bloody done it. And then celebrate that with people. Go, I've seen what you did, mate. Should be proud of you. That was amazing to see how you've come through all of that. no matter what, your trials and tribulations. And then when you hear from your daughter and she's saying those things and then the acknowledgement, and going, yeah, that's it. That's the human spirit right there. How beautiful. There's no codependency.
Podfire (01:20:19.438)
There you go. No, it was awesome. So moving forward for this trip, obviously you see real value in it.
Podfire (01:20:35.79)
Obviously people have choice. How are you going to get the word out there? You know what mean? Obviously this would be part of it, but are there going to be other ways? Is it yearly? it bi-yearly? Definitely yearly. That's not negotiable. For yourself? For the message. Someone's got to carry it.
But you know, that's the responsibility. Someone can carry that flame or carry that light no matter who they are. look, why I'm asking, I believe people should have the choice about whether they should go or not. Yeah. You know, but I think by listening to you and if people have the opportunity to listen to you, they'll want to be a part of it. I know I certainly do. Yeah. I know I certainly do. So well, we've got, you know, Robin.
We didn't even get to tap into her amazing depth. She should be here as well. Yeah. She would have some stories watching us drive in front of her. Yeah. What are these fellas doing up there? you wake up there. But you know, we're hoping to find one story. We pulled up to Lake Hart. Yes.
Being around this country many times, there's a lot of flies. It's no secret in our continent here. No matter what country in this country or this continent you go, there's flies, especially out west or central. We pulled up at Lake Hart and there was a lot of flies. That one next level. one's steroids, mate. I was like, I'm going on my bike down to the Salt Lake. I'm going to do a bit of filming and stuff. And hadn't been on a bike for a long time.
I'm glad that GoPro was on mute. Only one that had a bike. I don't think the bike was shaking. My legs were shaking. Got down, you know, and just had that moment. It was a big, big drive that day to get to that point. Yes. I think we went left Broken Hill and got over to South Australia all the way up to
Podfire (01:22:58.808)
Just, I think it's four hours outside Coober Pedy, something like that. You had to leave earlier because you had car issues. So you were trying to get that sorted in Port Augusta. Port Augusta. And then we were catching up with you. Yep. Got up with you at Lake Hart. Yeah. Yeah. We got there and I come back up the top and I don't know, you said, there's a number over there. Because we were going to stay. It was a rest stop.
and we were going to pull up the air and sleep the night. Yeah. That's right. And you said there's a number over there for this camp place. Yeah. It's 15 minutes up the road. Yep. She'll be ringing. I said, yeah, I'll go and get the number. I rang her up. This lady answered, Stacey and WikiCamps, I think it is. And she said, look, come on out, mate. We're minutes up the road and come and see me. It's 10 bucks per person or something like that. Yep.
We got there. So we were seeking a place to, you know, just to rest. Yes. Hopefully outside of these flies. And we got to her place and you had the first, the best moment to get us there because the sunset was just amazing. It was incredible. It was just us. In this whole place, this massive fireplace in the middle of it, just on the dirt.
Yep. Red dirt. And what we got from that was that gratitude for the day, journey, what we pushed through to get to there. But we got to meet this lady. Yes. And she had a story. We told her what we were here for. Yep. And so we're carrying a message and it's based on children being through domestic violence and trauma and loss on all type of levels. And it's a healing.
pilgrimage and then she had her story. Absolutely powerful. Do you want to touch on what that was? So she had some very traumatic experiences with Jarjums in her life. Young, young ones and was fighting currently deep in a legal battle for one and one had
Podfire (01:25:26.712)
committed suicide not long before. So she was fighting for the life of one grandchild and grieving the loss of another grandchild. And we just connected for all the right reasons. And even she had said, you're meant to be here, you're meant to come. yeah, it was one of those moments where it was just...
This is exactly why we're here. It's exactly why we're doing this trip. It's exactly why we are drawn to and need to connect with the right people who need us and we need them. Yeah. And just when we heard that, it just made everything right. was just right. was fitted. to hear her story, the pain in her eyes and
We need a place for our story. That's the route up through that part. And there's something we'll connect with her next year. can say we're gonna have this amount of caravans or motorhomes or cars or people. It's something that we wanna just then build on. And that's definitely a place, a watering hole there, a safe place for people to come together and create something that's well after we're gone.
Yes. You know, that our jarjums have taken their kids on this journey to the centre, which is all those trials and tribulations along the road, but get to see our country, the landscapes as it changes, with a good message. But that was one of the, I think that was one of the highest moments for all of us, just to let that lady, she's not alone.
let her know she's not alone. And there's many of us have been through that and are going through that. And it's okay. We see you. You're safe. Sorry. And there was a true reciprocity in that like, she provided us exactly what we needed for that night. And then she received something that she...
Podfire (01:27:49.006)
never thought she was going to receive in that condition. it was, yeah, it was perfect. Yeah.
Once again, it's just pushing, it's 15 minutes up the road. I'd already started. was the end of the day. End of the day. Yeah. You know, it was getting dark. Long day. The further you go up, the bigger the kangaroos. Yes. So the greater the risk, does the risk meet that, or does the reward meet that risk? It certainly did. Yeah. And then having that faith, trusting that process.
you know, sometimes you push things too far and you like a golf swing. Not that I can play golf, but sounds good. You can hook it or slice it, you know, too much strength was technique. It just what flows. Imagine me with a golf stick. But and that's where it got to, you know, and and the tribulations that we had along the way, just with my motorhome. Yeah.
and family dynamics that were happening and business dynamics. Also, you know, I pushed through all those and just listened to that deeper voice and that everything's gonna be all right. And it's exactly what my family dynamics and business needed. That they already have everything to do that on their own. Letting go, stepping back. You know, you already have that in you. So, maybe.
My little one was like, yeah, I already know that. Talking about. So we hope to get that along the way. Next journey, next chapters, how we get that out. That message and how do we organize that by other people joining that message? The right people, the right people for the right reasons and that organically.
Podfire (01:29:55.619)
can connect in the right way. all anybody can do is offer a choice. Yes. Offer an opportunity, really, and it sounds like a really good opportunity. the way, you two are speaking about it.
Podfire (01:30:14.85)
I'm sure there's still, there were a lot of rewards, but there's still a lot to think about your trip, you know, it takes a while, I guess, to sort of think about all those rewards or even the lessons that you can gain from a trip like that. So that might take until next trip. There you go. You know, so I'm really happy that you were able to go on that journey and hopefully the next one I come on the trip with you.
and others that really need it. Yep, certainly. And as we know, doesn't start or stop when you go to that trip. It's between the other part of the journey between now and then. know, surviving those things and life. Got to remember this afternoon not to go down Ross Lane.
It's closed. It's flooded. You wouldn't have known to go that way if you hadn't already taken the journey. But you've to give it another go. That's it. Might be different. But I want to say thank you. Yeah. So.
Podfire (01:31:28.942)
Yeah, it's a milestone that we will build on. Yeah, it was fantastic. I'm so happy that you were able to. It was very clear, no matter what was happening, you're in it. You're going. And then, you know, I was going through those, I don't want to let anyone down. I don't want to do this. And then I was like, OK, well, you've got to face, you've got to evaluate here, mate.
Do your self-assessment. Are you trying to hide from something or are you trying to freaking run to something to get something from not being here? You've got to go through this adversity right now. But like I said, the assurance that the energy that you brought was like, I'm going. We can do this however, but I'm here.
For the last three years, I've been thinking about buying one of those spears out there. And then finally, I was like, I'll get this spear, but it's bloody long. And then how am going to take it around to events? then, you know, it was a hunting spear. How am I going to take that around? And then we got to there, to that shop there at the rock.
And then I went back, it didn't feel right. I was gonna get it. And then it was the next day. And it presented itself as a digging stick. In construction, we call ourselves the wellness diggers. So here's this digging stick, pretty big lumpy stick. I was like, this is it. And we're looking at getting our own message stick to carry around as well. So we're gonna do that.
at your place. we, you know, just finding that digging stick which went with you. And then it was handed back to me on the other end and it was so fitting because it was women's business. There was another realization is like, I've got three females here that are taking their place around a conversation that they're already doing in their own lives and coming together as a collective around this.
Podfire (01:33:49.398)
And that was just so, yeah, once again, heartwarming. know, this message is not mine. It doesn't belong to the logo or a name. It's that essence, human essence of what we can do together. So that went all the way up to around Rockhampton, the Mount Isa. Yeah, so we went up through Tennant Creek, Mount Isa, and then back through central Queensland. Before I forget.
Devil's Marbles. Yes, went to the marbles. Tell me, because I haven't had this conversation with you. gosh. So all I knew is because of you, you were like, no, we've got to go to Devil's Marbles. I'd never been there before. And of course, we, you know, kind of run out time and stuff and you didn't get to go. So we kind of had to go to represent you in a way. And we took the digging stick with us and
Devil's Marbles is actually just right next to the highway. It's just like a little rest stop almost. And we pulled up there and it was just amazing. we took the digging stick there and had it at the marbles and I photographed it in different spots and wished you were there, but we had this to represent you.
Yeah, there were some areas there where you don't go that were, you you don't go into their caves and stuff like that. So we certainly didn't do that. But and we weren't there for as long as we probably would have liked to be. But we did walk around and to just be in the presence on country like at Uluru and Karadjuda was, yeah, it was really good. But we could then
put the spirit of that country, have that go into this digging stick. I hope that stick stays the time with it connecting. For a long time. Yeah. Yeah, so it was really, really lovely. How amazing are those rocks? This formation. They're just. It's unexplainable. Yeah, you just kind of go, okay. Well, like, yeah, they've got their scientific reasons. Everything's got this scientific reasoning.
Podfire (01:36:17.356)
But when you actually just stop and be in the presence and feel the energy that's there, that you need to be open to be able to do that. And what I noticed with at all the spots, tourists will race to read all the labels and the explanations and they're seeking.
the information that needs to be given to them on placards and billboards and all that kind of stuff. But not one of them stop and feel the presence. Feel Of what those words point to. Of what those words are actually saying or that's below, that's deeper than just this scientific reason or whatever it is that
They almost like miss this whole layer of connection because they're so busy in their heads, so busy looking for it in words. And you see them kind of racing from one to the other to read stuff. Okay, I've done that one. Yeah, yeah. See people, you know, go through the theme park. Yeah. I've been on that ride. I've been on that one. Rather than just embellish.
actually sit and be there and connect with what's there is lost often.
And I know something that we, that's something we spoke about and we all do that on different, you know, day to day things. We all do that. But on a trip like that, because every single person that's on the road is doing something that's, you just don't jump in a car and go around the corner or just up the highway or an hour to Brizzy or down to Byron. That's a big trip. So they've made that effort to get out to meet Australia.
Podfire (01:38:22.016)
and miss so much. But then just miss that, the thing between the words, which is space, the consciousness. But then there's opportunity in that maybe we can put that to those. Yes. do we get them to do some mindfulness? know, now that you're here in your physical, close your eyes, listen to this bird. Who can hear that one? You know, what did you hear? What did feel?
I just feel, yeah, a lot of people sitting there crying. dear. Yeah. We all can do with a bit more feeling of mystery as well. There's this thing that we see something or whatever it is, we need to know why. We need to know the answer. But sometimes not knowing the answers, it's all right.
And being in the mystery of it all just takes you on a whole other journey. The mystery of the history. Well, would just, you know, if and I know what you're saying. If you're just looking at those those marbles or the devil's marbles, it's like I'll be thinking. Why did they name it the devil's marbles or who named it the devil's marbles? And then in.
in the mystery of how did it happen? know? And I, that's where we all should be, you know? Just to sit and think and I guess that's what you're saying without going straight to the park and finding out, you know, what was written. know? Sometimes it's okay not knowing. Yeah. If you're not knowing, then you're feeling. Feel and trust. Exactly. And then feeling is healing.
go. Yeah, I like it. Sometimes we need to be led by those feelings, know. Yes. Stay human. Being. Human. I like what you said before, being in the presence.
Podfire (01:40:42.666)
I just stay present. Yes. The greatest present is your presence. 100%. But yeah. Sounds awesome. It was. And I look. Let's get ready. I know we could sit here all day about it. These fellas are running out of tape. How it's gonna run out of your suit. Yeah. And look, no doubt we'll be able to catch up outside the podcast, you? But Norm, appreciate you coming along again and yarning.
No doubt we'll get you back soon if you're up to it. You aren't about this journey that you're going on. And Aunty, it's always good sitting in the space with you. Thank you, You're going down to a leadership thing in Lismore? Ginalubar or something? yeah. Yeah, gonna go and check it out. Young Malcolm Saunders.
He sent me a text and said, are you going to this? So I may see you down there. Yeah, cool. for your show and creating something that's a safe environment for people to show up and use things. The current technology in a healthy and positive way to have a deeper impact that can help others. However, that lands on them. Yeah, well, it's like anything.
You just put it out there and it's people's choice as to whether they want to listen or watch it and take whatever they want from it. No pressure and no expectations. It's an offering. It's an offering and an invite. Absolutely. But it's always good sitting with you, bud. Yes, thank you. Likewise.
Stay tuned.