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Looking to lead, grow, and stay ahead in the trillion-dollar global chemical industry? The Chemical Show - the #1 business podcast for the chemical industry - is your go-to resource for leadership insights, business strategies, and real-world lessons from the executives shaping the future of chemicals. Grow your knowledge, your network, and your impact.
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Welcome to The Chemical Show, the
podcast where Chemical means business.
I'm your host, Victoria Meyer,
bringing you stories and insights
from leaders driving innovation and
growth across the chemical industry.
Each week we explore key trends,
real world challenges, and the
strategies that make an impact.
Let's get started.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Welcome back to The Chemical
Show Where Leaders Talk Business.
Today I am speaking with Dewey Johnson,
who is the Senior Vice President of Dow
Jones, and more importantly, perhaps the
global head of Chemical Market Analytics.
So we're gonna be talking a little
bit about Dewey Chemical Market
Analytics, and what the heck is
going on in chemical markets today.
So Dewey, welcome to the Chemical Show.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
Thanks, Victoria.
It's a pleasure to be here.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I
am really glad to have you here.
So let's just start with you.
What's your origin story?
How did you get into this
wonderful world of chemicals?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I've
always been interested in science
and how the world works and, uh, was
always, um, was good in math and, um,
so it was a kind of a natural fit.
I joined, um, the chemical
industry through Eastman Chemical
Company, which was the chemical
arm of Kodak, a few decades ago.
And, uh, did the, did the technical piece.
So it was process engineer, and then
project engineer building chemical
plants, uh, different parts of the world.
And then went into, um, I wanted to kind
of have a line of sight to where the money
flow is and went into commercial roles.
Global sourcing.
Eastman at one time was the largest
producer of PET of polyester, and so
in the strategy group there as well as,
uh, and then sourced for that group.
So, sourced aromatics and olefins
and then had commercial roles.
Eastman was also big in the asset
tills business, so, purchased
methanol, sold as, uh, asset tills,
the industrial gas contracts, you
know, kind of that varied area.
then somewhere along the way, uh,
taking some, uh, corporate strategy
roles very interested in kind of
modeling quantitative type models, and
everything from game theory on kind of.
What, you know, if we take this
move, what does our competitor take?
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and
kind of in a rigorous way, not, the
simplistic way, but found some experts
in game theory, that GM used and,
uh, and that's a whole community.
and from that also did a
lot of dynamic modeling.
Chemical industry, we know about feedback,
control theory used to control processes.
It can be applied to
socioeconomic systems too.
And MIT is a leader in that.
so I got very interested in that.
Uh, have worked with, number of,
uh, the staff at MIT as well as, uh,
you know, graduates of, of, uh, of
that program, system dynamics, and
found that to be very intriguing.
And, um, and so I've always.
Found it interesting to take the
real world behavior converted into
quantitatively rigorous models
and then be able to interpret
that back to the real world.
And think for CMA, that's kind of,
um, a skillset that we look for
and it's kind of a hard to find
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah, I
was gonna say that totally then connects
with what Chemical market analytics does.
So outta curiosity, when did you
venture out of working for a chemical
company to being this analyst,
and running an analytics business
that supports chemical companies?
How long have you been doing this?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Great question.
I'm, uh, I'm younger than I'll
look, lemme put it that way.
But, uh, so, um, a number of years at
Eastman, I was a big client of CM ai.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: you know,
again, appreciated market insight,
the data and the market insight,
in terms of causality of behavior
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
STEM AI was, , the leader in
that and that was a big client.
An opportunity came up in, uh, one
of the, uh, business areas for CMAI.
And, uh, I knew the firm well.
so I moved from, Tri-Cities,
Tennessee, which was the headquarters
of Eastman Chemical to, to
Houston and so I joined in 2009.
and then I've been leading,
uh, the research part of the
business and now OCMA since 2012.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
half of your, you know, you can
almost say half and half, right?
Uh, in terms of a career perspective.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I
enjoy the consultancy piece.
We talked to, know, we have many
clients across the industry.
It's, amazing to talk to, um,
different clients of different
cultures, the personalities involved.
so I find that a fascinating,
um, career choice.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I bet.
I bet it is.
Alright, so tell us a little bit
about Chemical Market Analytics,
because you know, and you and I
have talked about this before.
Um.
People are a little
confused as to who you are.
Like they know you're the, the
people in the organization.
In fact, Steve Lewandowski, of
course, has been on the Chemical show
several times, but sometimes I know
you probably see this, people keep
referring you to you by your old names.
But let's talk about chemical market
analytics and how you came to be.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah.
Thank you.
Um, a number of my directs
are, you know, their own brand.
I would say, you know, you mentioned
Steve Ladowski, Nick BFIs and
Polyolefins, or Joel Morales.
Pablo, uh, Georgie also
does Olefins, Duncan Clark.
Peter Fang does aromatics.
Ashish Bijari in Asia, uh, Nick Koic,
in the inorganics chloride bottles.
So, yeah.
Uh, our senior people are, are
known throughout the industry.
So formerly, again, almost the
whole organization, the body of
intellectual property, and many
carryovers came from CM ai and, um.
So the legacy CMAI was formed in 1979.
and then in, uh, it was managed as a
partnership, like much like a legal firm.
And then, uh, in 2012, uh, I Hs
acquired, uh, CMAI and then shortly
after that, well, I just acquired 50
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I was
gonna say IHS was in a huge acquisition
mode, so CMAI was not the only
company they acquired at that time.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: right?
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh,
they were given a heads up.
If you really want kind of the deep
chemical insight, you need to go hire
CM, AI or fi, um, To purchase CMAI.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: we were
acquired in 2012 and then I think around
2015 Market, which was a financial,
uh, entity, and IHS, merged and it
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Got it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and so
many people were pleased with that
because if you, uh, in the old days,
if you did at IHS, um, it always
deferred to his instead of hs.
So, um.
So we were the base chemicals,
coverage for IHS market.
And then in, in 2000, the deal
was closed in 2022 as s and p was
looking to acquire IHS market.
there was a couple issues, Opus,
which is also, um, we're together.
Opus and CMA.
so CMA has two business lines.
One is market insight, which is.
Why is the market behaving the way
it is and how is it expected to
behave in the future, a forecast?
And so the focus is really on
causality of behavior and forward look.
a key part of our business.
That was our legacy, is our legacy.
other part of the business is over
time we became a big price reporting
agency, meaning we do discovery
on how markets are transacting.
We talk to buyers and sellers.
Uh, we do the discovery, uh, sufficient
to characterize the market, and then we
provide an index or an assessment of
what the market is transacting at, and
clients often refer to that in contracts.
So that's the PRA Price reporting agency.
It was the PRA.
of the business that overlapped
with the plats, uh, at s and p.
So that overlap, uh, required
regulatory, uh, agencies required,
for that to be di uh, divested from
IHS market before the deal was done.
uh, Jones was the acquirer.
So.
We've had a new parent since
2022 and um, it's actually
been a great, um, a great ride.
really good parent.
And just to comment on that, Dow
Jones obviously known for its media
organization, the Wall Street Journal
and Barons, but over the last few
years, Dow Jones was, uh, seeking to.
Also be in the business where
unique content is important and
provided and leverages what Dow
Jones is really known for as well.
And that is integrity beyond,
question and trustworthiness.
And that has been, and
is our legacy as well.
So it's a perfect fit.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I love it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and
Dow Jones is fully supportive of,
of the investment is we continue
to grow to meet our client's
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
So the, so the current chemical
market analytics by, what is it?
Chemical Market Analytics
by Opus Odo Jones Company.
Is that the official long name?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
That's the long name We're.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
I'm on board with
collapsing that by the way.
So chemical market
analytics is actually it.
The formation, when it was formed,
it was the base chemicals business.
Plus the Price Reporting agency.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yes.
Well, and
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: it's
the two business streams, I
would say two work processes.
We provide the service to clients as a.
is one package
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: got it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: You
get the price assessments and
you get the causality for that as
well as a forecast in one service.
Deliverable in one's per report.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And then just
a little bit about CMA, we're 220 plus
will soon be two 50 people worldwide.
All the senior people and most of
the organization came from industry
with a commercial background.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Can got it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: understanding
the client's needs because we've
been the client and we've sat in the
chair and experienced the stress.
Um, and so, cover about 350 chemicals,
all of the core building blocks.
Uh, and then kind of the first order,
second order, tertiary derivatives.
we've always been global
for many, many years.
Even CMAI, so obviously big presence in
Houston, but, uh, we're in, uh, Asia and
Singapore, big office in China, and, uh,
but both in Shanghai and Beijing, we're
in Malaysia and then we're expanding
in the Middle East, uh, in Dubai,
uh, Qatar as well as Saudi Arabia.
so, um, still growing our footprint
in areas where where we need to
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: bigger.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Awesome.
Well, and and that's a,
that's a great segue.
'cause let's be honest, do we,
the global chemical markets
are something today, right?
Um, uh, I, I think, you know,
for some, both of us have been
in the industry a long time.
We've seen cycles.
We've seen super cycles.
I'm not sure what I would say
it is at the moment, uh, but
maybe you can tell us that.
But from your perspective, you know, what
are the biggest things that are shaping.
The global chemical markets and
you know, to a certain degree what
the heck is happening out there.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: yeah, it's
a period of high uncertainty, you know,
we'll, we'll use some overused words here.
Um, for the industry.
You know, good time to be a consultant,
uh, a good time to, you know, really
to be a student of the market,
which is kind of what I say we're.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and so,
you know, kind of some major issues.
Certainly the market is in
a period of, of oversupply.
I show often in, um, in more some of the
more recent events, kind of, I use the
ethylene cycle to as a, as one example.
you plot, you know, since the early
eighties, you know, through now,
and our forecast going forward,
this is the longest and deepest down
cycle ethylene has ever experienced,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
That's crazy.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And um, and
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Well,
okay, so I'm gonna ask you why, like,
it's easy to say it's about overbuilding
and we've overbuilt many a time,
but is that what's really the why as
to why it's such a deep down cycle?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah, I've had
that question even from, uh, we're gonna
point at Chi China, but even from our
Chinese clients and all the majors are
clients, you know, ask us the same thing.
It's like, okay.
but so there's a number of factors.
One is, China has been marching down the
pathway to over to self-sufficiency and.
Maybe the best example of that is in
2000, China's total global chemical
capacity was about 20 million tons,
but 2040 would be 400 million tons.
So
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Wow.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: has a,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I'll send
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: now
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: growth
has been, will be in that same
pathway, but, at the end point.
But, you know, China's capacity build is
just, you know, , 45 degrees, uh, angle.
so that pathway of, of moving towards
self-sufficiency, has been, you know,
China has traditionally been a very
capital efficient, uh, uh, make maker
or buy kind of, uh, player, but as they
move towards self-sufficiency, it's.
The first relief valve relief
valve is backing out imports.
And that's what they've been doing.
then when they overbuild, uh, and that's
happening across multiple value chains,
then they moved to export, export
the chemical, as well as the final
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
And so how did they get here?
So one is self-sufficiency, the
other one was the demand profile
that China was building to suddenly,
shifted downward dramatically.
And so, and all this capacity was still
in the pipeline and it kept coming.
And demand has still remained
significantly suppressed,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: What's so,
what's causing demand to be suppressed?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
primarily, uh, infrastructure
in the real estate market, you
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh, as well.
And consumer demand is down as well.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
multiple sectors of China.
growth rates are significantly less
than they were before, so they're
building against one demand profile
is suddenly shift dramatically.
The other element is, at kind
of exacerbating this is 2030.
China has set, will be the baseline
for emissions reductions going forward.
And so a number of clients now are
building, to become part of the baseline.
Um, and, um.
And then can start reducing after that,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Okay, so help me understand that.
So for, for China specifically,
this, and this I guess, ties into
a sustainability and, you know, the
greening of the industry, if you will.
Their baseline emissions don't
get set till 2030, so there's an
incentive to hurry up and build and
emit so that in the future you're
being measured in set 2030 number.
Is that basically the
implication of what's going on?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: China is
very efficient and effective at play
at, at understanding the capitalist
system, and that's kind of the rules
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And you
know, they're very good at, you know,
kind of, Operating within the rules.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh,
they're doing what rational
market participants would do.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
Which is a little, is that
timing different than other
countries and regions?
Because I feel like, you know,
'cause I feel like, let's talk
about sustainability maybe is one
of the trends that's really shaped.
Uh, certainly conversation across
the industry as well as behaviors.
we're targeting, heck, here we
are, 20, 25 goals and 2030 goals,
and 2040 goals, and reducing
emissions to a different timeline.
Um, so is that right?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yes.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: accord,
but, you know, originally it was
concern about, uh, or we showed.
Across the industry, there were
various, um, shown to how do
you, uh, get to no more than 1.5
degree sea warming.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I think the
general consensus is that the climate
will warm higher, more than that.
and then, there's various initiatives.
Uh, the EU certainly, Advancing
forward on, in terms of addressing
carbon emissions, the us you know,
under current administration?
a bit of a pause on that.
So I would just say that as I talk
to clients across the world, it is a
top of agenda item, at the C-suite.
but you know, it's also,
sustainability is also, you need
to be economically viable too.
that's part of being a
good citizen as well.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: um, it
remains a core initiative, I would say.
haven't met a CEO yet that it's not a
critical item and it's not on their, it,
it's not on, it's, it's on the CEO agenda.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Right, right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: let
me return back to China for one
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: There is
a black swan there that's kind of
not, not showing up in our models
yet, but it's a critical element.
When I talked to the major players,
the 15th five year plan is due,
uh, next year, early next year.
current refinery, operating rate's
about 70% expected to plateau and
perhaps decline further, is China leads
the way on vehicle electrification.
China, the business model in China
for the petrochemical industry is a
integrated refinery petrochemical complex.
That's the core
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: model.
And so as refining operating rates, uh,
are under pressure, downward pressure.
how do they maintain a viable
operating rate on refining?
And one way to do that is to build
out feedstocks and pet camps.
So the potential for even more
chemical growth, capacity growth
in China is reasonably high.
Uh, and that
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
more disruption.
They will look to export and uh,
and so again, that's calling a black
swan because we are still quantifying
what the implications of that are.
But it does have significant
implications for the global industry.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
That's interesting.
'cause I, because, um, so
basically because there.
oil demand for fuel for
transportation is declining.
They're, they're gonna be shifting
more potentially into chemicals.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: In China.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Wow.
Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And then
just the other element on oversupply
if your advantage cost structure,
people are still building, we still
have, a fair amount of capacity
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
in the Middle East.
have some capacity being added in
the us So again, when you combine
all that, but China's the most
noticeable and significant disruptor.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Yeah, that's interesting.
And of course, I guess what comes into
some of this then is tariffs, right?
So I know there's been a lot of discussion
and uncertainty and what's happening
and what's not really happening.
And I think kind of the, the truest.
Purpose that somebody could say is
for tariffs is to help manage some
of that, supply demand flow, uh,
and, you know, potentially dumping
if you wanna use that term or others.
and yet we have a lot of uncertainty.
How do, how do you see this playing out?
Do we, I mean, I know that your crystal
ball is as, uh, maybe not as clear
as anybody's had this moment in time.
It's all, it's all a little bit unclear,
but, but when you look at what's going
on with this degree of uncertainty.
what conversations are
you having around this?
Um, and what advice are you guys giving?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Uh, one
of the things, we'll, at least, uh,
predicting the world, nobody can do that.
How the world will come out, but at
least we'll provide a core set of
assumptions on that underpin our view.
I think clearly though we're seeing,
a desegregation of the world, uh, or,
or, um, segregation, I should say,
of the world, um, deglobalization.
and it goes, if you go back to history.
The chemical industry has been very
good at, uh, build to exports, been
the model trade flow has then been a
result of lowest cost optimization.
And when we actually do, you know,
we do this quanti quantified rigorous
models, we do a backcast of trade
flow across multiple chemicals,
it's amazing how if you just do a
low linear, low cost optimization.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Very predictive
of what historical trade flows have been.
And so going forward though, function,
the, the equation is not just, uh,
risk, uh, it's not just, um, cost
optimization, it's risk management.
And that's really changing.
COVID was the beginning to
show that, to just plan on
a global efficient, no, uh uh.
Disruptions is a little
bit too, uh, too naive.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and then
the trade, tariffs, uncertainty,
political uncertainty too has suggested.
Supply chain management.
Understanding supply chains is critical.
It's one of the things we'll talk
about in our, uh, our home events.
And it was an event that, it
was a conversation we had at
GPCA year, as we talked about.
Uh, it's now, it's also at the,
at the C-suite conversation of
the configuration of the supply
chain and how that might change.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
you use the word risk, and that's
maybe the right word to think about
because it's the geopolitical risks.
There's weather related risks.
Like we've certainly seen some supply
chain impacts as a result of that.
And then there's probably this
whole sense of, uh, security.
Not just security of supply, but security
of your own destiny, I would imagine.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Absolutely.
another trend this.
Changing competitive
landscape for feed stocks.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: if you look
at, for a large part of the world, it's
been this integrated refining d picks,
meaning na, to olefins, for example.
and yet we see many clients, you
know, moving to ethane and we're
seeing that in every region.
Europe, Latin America.
I was at the, um.
A APEC conference in May.
many China, clients are moving to,
many have already taken the decision to
move to some production, to ethane or
mixed feed, and Southeast Asia as well.
So, we continue to see more.
If, if they've not made the
decision, it's under contemplation.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
but that comes with risk.
Uh, ethane is a good example.
Um, will those exports get.
Tariff, will there be a tariff?
It's the supply is the US at the moment.
You know, will tariffs be applied?
Will supply chains be disrupted?
You know, there are a number of
US clients, chemical clients.
We have clients on the energy side as
well going, Hey, wait a minute, why are
we exporting our competitive advantage
outside the US to others, exporting Ethan?
So.
You know, kind of Ethan comes with risk.
And we also find that, um, as we do
bespoke work, clients often kind of.
Interestingly enough, costs, you
know, it's an advantage situation,
but you need to make sure you've,
uh, fully, captured all the CapEx
that's involved and, you know, what's
the return on investment there.
So not a simple answer.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And
the other thing on supply chain,
just the disruption there.
We've seen a number of assets in
Europe, shut down, shut down the
cracker, but not the derivatives.
And we see ethylene now flowing from
the US to, uh, supply those derivatives.
So there's some interim changes happening
as, uh, as we see this pressure on, uh,
of over and, and pressure on margins.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Yeah, I think I, in fact,
I'm glad you brought up that.
'cause I was, I was
wondering about this whole.
Uh, conversation around, you
know, we're seeing shutdowns.
It seems like a lot of shutdowns,
at least, you know, every other week
there's an announcement it feels like
about an asset in Europe shutting down.
we've seen some of that
in the North America.
I'm hearing less of that, uh,
in other parts of the world.
And yet, to your point, earlier with,
you know, if China's suffering some
of the same operating rates, you
would logically assume at some point
some assets are gonna shut down.
So that's one piece of this.
The other piece though, Doy, that
gets into some of this is, um, kind
of the whole free enterprise and the,
the freedom market freedoms, right?
So it's easy to say, well, why are we,
selling ethylene to a different country
or ethylene to a different country.
And yet, of course, at least in
Western economies, we're operating
actually with a very much of a free
market system, which maybe is more
controlled in other parts of the world.
Uh, I'm sure you're having
these conversations.
How are companies navigating these,
regional differences that are perhaps
causing them to shut down in a particular
region or balancing what their risks are
as they look at their global footprint?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah,
I mean the, in this kind of period
where, you know, oversupply, and
by the way, we haven't, we talked.
About the ethylene example
across most chemicals,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
really don't begin to improve
until the end of the decade.
And so, you know, that's a
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
that's, that's not something
anybody really wants to hear.
Dewey.
'cause everybody keeps
saying it's 26th the year.
Like, I don't know.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I think
critical item would be kind of
anticipate that could be the case.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
what, what's what I do in under
those set of circumstances?
So, I mean, I think that is the challenge.
and then the US operates
a very, you know, yes.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Alright,
sir, you have a tape, alright?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: one time I
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yes sir.
Yes sir.
Okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: was
at,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
very much appreciate it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: and um,
the European economist said that
the US practice ruthless capitalism.
And that maybe is a good example.
as does China pretty much, except
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Hmm.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
have the overlay as well
with, uh, government control.
So I think, um, you know, capitalism
under this stress period, the good thing
is the week will, you know, kind of
time the week it cleans out the market.
Um, and, you know, with a five
year duration, I think it's
gonna clean out the market.
either, you know, low cost or you
know, you, um, you look at where
the value's migrating and um, and
you know, you find the profit pools
that, that you can participate
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
So what do you think?
So, so if, if this holds true that we see
a five year recovery going forward, What's
gonna be critical for chemical companies
and for chemical leaders to do, um, to
ensure that they're still in existence
and successful, um, in running profitable
businesses over the next five years?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I
think it's a great question.
Um, I think we've talked about,
it's kind of like how do you balance
short term situation with long.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Yeah, absolutely.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: it reminded
me of kind of a workout, right?
There's metabolic conditioning,
cardio and there's muscle development,
and you gotta gotta do both
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Right.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And, um,
and so in that way I, you know, you
gotta kind of, you, you gotta survive.
And yet there, there's the long term.
What am I gonna be as I go forward?
So.
when I look at this, I think kind of
some of the keys to success is we are
looking at a chronic oversupply, or
at least one for a reasonable planning
duration, time to be decisive now.
It's not gonna get any better
in the near term horizon.
and so.
To delay means just prolonging,
you know, kind of a decision.
So, uh, and then the other thing
is I think we'll see, we will
see more m and a, you know, as we
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
work, we're seeing that we see
it before it becomes visible.
So, um, we're certainly seeing a
lot of activity from clients in,
not only in the market sector,
but in the financial sector.
, We have clients, um.
across the, the spectrum
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: you know,
we're seeing a lot of analysis being
done, uh, and kind of different kinds
of either asset reconfiguration or, uh,
acquisition, divestiture partnership.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: where
you draw the boundary around the
entity, um, I think we'll see more,
know, kind of collaborations that.
with how to be more
efficient and effective.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it is definitely an
opportunity for people to think about
reshaping their portfolios, uh, reshaping
not just their assets in their, in
their, their assets, their products.
They're people and I guess
their business relationships.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah.
You talk about people, uh, you know, one
of the, uh, I was thinking of disruptive
issues or kind of critical issues.
We can't have a conversation
and not at least spring it up.
And that's ai.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yes.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And, uh,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: with,
uh, with the Dow Trump, we had a Dow
Jones Leadership Summit last week.
AI was a topic.
and we had multiple speakers.
Everything from, you know.
The world's gonna be different and
it's, you got 35 months to deal with it.
you know, it's a world of huge
opportunity and it's kind of both
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: But you know,
when I think about, what I see and what
some of our clients are doing, you know,
it certainly affects product development.
You know, what's happening there?
Uh, technology.
service provision and
how we deliver services.
Staffing, you know, that's kind of
the big issue that's on in the news.
A lot of, you know, there's a
well doc, well publicized item.
I think McKenzie said that they, they're
going to 5,000, uh, staff members are
affected because they're putting that
investment in, uh, development of agents.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Wow.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: And there's
agents and then there's agen systems.
And so, that's more complicated
than I fully can explain, but I
think it definitely is the case.
I think, it will be a critical
issue that will affect us.
I think the chemical industry, I would
call us a laggard in this space, frankly.
and and I think, I do believe that
the wave is coming faster than, uh.
For
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Yeah, I agree with that.
And I think we're, um,
it's, it's not easy.
And I've had a number of,
uh, conversations and.
I was kind of at a quasi think tank
session earlier this year, specifically
around, digitization and AI and how,
companies inside of chemicals are
harnessing that and it's not easy.
, A lot of it is based on when
you think especially about.
A lot about AI requires really good
data, of which we have tons of data,
reams of data, thousands of, and
probably millions of data points.
our ability to harness it, our ability to
share it effectively across boundaries.
'cause of course, that's one of the
things that, makes it tricky, right.
Is uh, a lot of the boundary
conditions that we set.
but AI is, it's here.
I mean, I gotta be honest,
I use it all the time.
How about you?
Do you, do you guys use
much AI in business today?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
We we're definitely using it.
I'd say we're at different
levels across the business.
E even at the corporate level,
there's a strong initiative.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: you know,
we announced earlier this year, Dow
Jones has a partnership with Chat,
GBT, a strategic partnership, but
we're using it across the business.
and by the way, I'll give a, a
learning for me that I learned, uh,
last week is we had one of, uh, ai,
players, in terms of using the system.
A great prompt to ask, uh, whether it's
Gemini or whatever you're using, to
ask AI to continue to ask you questions
until you've met your objective.
And so instead of you having to think and
ask the next question, let it continue
to ask until you converge on what you
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Yeah, that's a brilliant one.
Mm-hmm.
I, I've started to use that myself.
So I'll go in and I'll ask, you know,
say, Hey, this is what I'm trying to do.
These are my, you know, and then I
will say, okay, is, is there more
questions or other information you need?
In order to gimme that result.
Um, and that's helpful.
Okay, so, so I, we're getting close
to wrapping up, but I do have a
couple more questions for you, Dewey.
So I'm just gonna ask, so how
is it being part of Dow Jones?
So, I gotta be honest, I am a long
time, I think about Dow Jones and I
think about the Wall Street Journal,
and I am a long time subscriber.
I love, um, I love the Wall Street
Journal, you know, shut out.
Um, but, but Dow Jones brings its own.
Presence and reach, and impact, how
is it for chemical market analytics
being part of the Dow Jones enterprise?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: so first
of all, I, you know, my team is
not my org chart, it's Dow Jones.
So, of starts with that kind
of a thought, thought process,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
uh, we're seeing.
first of all, I, I love
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: part
of the Wall Street Journal, 34
million unique viewers a month.
we've all often said in the chemical
industry that, you know, the general
public doesn't understand this, so
we continue to have the opportunity.
To be clear, the media group is
very independent and they will do
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
I've heard that.
Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: but,
it gives us, you know, we're,
we're asked to provide a view and
we, you know, we provide that.
So, and then they'll ask
everyone else as well.
So, uh, it's a huge opportunity there.
We
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: it's
also an opportunity as we look at,
you know, the Middle East and, uh.
And the country's there, you know,
as they continue to seek the news
and seek coverage, that's objective.
Um, you know, the media organization
provides that opportunity and the Dow
Jones footprint, and in a holistic way
is available, is there to support them.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Got it.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
think that's terrific.
and Dow Jones is really excited about
the energy in the chemical sector.
One of the most important sectors
affecting general public and, um, and
in industry or well, uh, the world.
And, uh, and so they have been
continued to be very supportive and,
they've provided us, uh, as we've asked
for resources to meet client needs,
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
been very supportive in, um,
in, in our investment request.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Awesome.
That's always good.
It's always good to have
a good parent company.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Uh, I'll
mention one other example, Victoria.
Um, so we're having our, our World
Chemical Forum is next March,
March 25th and 26th.
we have the choice to the opportunity
to make that unique and, and so,
uh, one of the unique items is
certainly, both participation and
coverage by the media groups, the
Wall Street Journal and Baron's.
and on the participation side, it
allows us to bring in the senior
journalists and their, you know,
core expertise is ensuring that the
right, that the issues are surfaced
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: uh, in detail.
And, um, as you know, from Wall
Street Journal articles, there's
not, they don't do fluff pieces.
It's really, you know, a detailed
analysis objectively done.
So I'm really excited about that.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: that's cool.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
I'm also excited.
From our core on insight, we'll definitely
discuss the issues, critical issues in
terms of what's happening, but we'll
go a lot deeper than that and talk
about where's the market going, are the
implications of that, and, and if the, if
the world evolves differently, you know,
what are the, some scenarios around that.
So if, if you think of it from a
game theory analogy, it's what's
the objective or what's the problem?
What are the constraints
around that problem?
What options do market participants have?
What are preferences
that are being looked at?
And then what are the
potential slate of outcomes?
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah,
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: kind of that
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: I.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: analysis
that leads to real action is where
the conference will go and it'll
be heavily focused on just kind of
momentum, but where are the disruptors
and where's the innovation happening.
It's gonna be, it'll be a big push
on innovation change disruption.
and, you know, momentum
will be what momentum is.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: I
think we're, I think we're in
a period of pretty big change.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Yeah, absolutely.
So therefore people need to keep, uh,
relying on some good, uh, data and
inputs and uh, and value and stuff.
So I think that's great.
And, uh, and World Chemical Farms
gonna be in Houston, is that right?
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: In
Houston, actually in the Woodlands.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Oh, okay.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: we wanted,
we wanted a resort like setting
because the focus again is on thought
leadership, innovation, disruption, So
it was, we really wanted to mix it up
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: again, the
focus is decision makers in the room.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Got it.
I like that.
I like that.
Awesome.
Well, do we, this has actually been great.
Um, not actually.
This has been great.
Of course.
It was great.
Uh, I really appreciate you taking
the time, um, and sharing a little
bit more about yourself and.
I'm gonna call it the new Chemical
Market analytics, even though
you guys are three years old, and
what's going on in markets today.
So thank you for this.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659: Yeah,
we're actually 46 year olds.
46 years old.
We've just been called
many things over time.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816:
Yeah, no kidding.
Right?
Well, uh, what's old is new again
and all that good jazz, I guess.
dewey_1_09-10-2025_123659:
Victoria, terrific.
Great to be with you.
victoria_2_09-10-2025_123816: Yeah.
Thank you and thank you
everyone for joining us today.
Keep listening, keep following,
keep sharing, and we will
talk with you again soon.