Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A faith-forward podcast for people who love Jesus but also love being honest about how weird and wonderful life can be. Hosts Kerrye and Jill tell stories about the Bible, talk about their faith, and dig into what it looks like to follow God through the ordinary chaos of everyday, imperfect life. Real conversations. Real stories. No pretending to have it all together. Pull up a chair, turn the page, and let's go.
Welcome to Chapter and Verse, where people
come on and tell their real stories,
faith, failure, redemption, and the
occasional, "Lord, what are you doing?"
moment.
Some inspiring, some messy, and some that
probably should have come with a warning
label, because through every chapter
of every story, God is still writing.
And He's not afraid of a little chaos.
This is Jill.
And Carrie.
Let's turn the page.
Well, it's Jill and I today, and we
are going to be talking about one
of our favorite Bible characters
and Bible stories, and that is Job.
Job.
Okay, we're not gonna sing the song.
We can't sing the song.
There's this kids song, um,
that is in our heads right now.
It is literally the funniest thing.
If you can find it on YouTube
... Well, man, last time we looked,
it was really hard to find.
It was hard to find.
Maybe we can post a link when we do this.
Yeah.
So you can get it in your head.
We'll, we'll see what we can do.
It's a earworm.
It is an earworm.
It is fantastic.
Well, we're gonna jump in because
Job is a very, uh, broad s- you
know, like, it's a long story.
It's broad.
It's got so many points, and
we will not cover it all.
No, there ain't no way.
But- But it's so good.
Yeah.
All of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so let's jump in.
So Job's story is a redemption
one, and you know, there's many
redemption stories in the Bible like
Joseph and, you know, Jacob and Job.
And of course, the most famous is our
redemption story through Jesus, you know?
Um, but this is one ... Now let's
talk about the history of the book.
This is, this is where you are
you, and I am filler commentary-
Okay ... 'cause hit it, Pastor Kate.
Well, Job is the first book
written of the whole entire Bible.
Um, it is not the first book
in your Bible, but it is the
first book written about.
Like, first one that was
ever written was Job.
Um- Listen, I can totally see why.
Yeah.
Well, and that's what we're, we're
gonna talk about it, but, um, but it's
a, it's a, you know, it's a good, it's
a good thing for us to ... I know no
one really likes to talk about it.
I just find it so relatable.
Yeah, but if you get into it,
you're like, "Yeah, this is me."
Mm-hmm.
Um, because you're gonna find physical
pain, emotional pain, relational pain,
professional pain, uh, theological pain.
Yeah.
Like, all the things that you deal
with is in the Book of Job, and I think
that's really important- That we look
at it first because we've all been where
he is, and maybe not to the extent,
because he completely lost everything.
I mean, uh, yes.
But even then, we, we do find ourselves,
at least I do, I'll, I'll speak freely
for myself, that there are definite
moments where even though I know I'm not
losing everything, it sure feels like it.
Yes, it feels like you are.
Or it feels like I am,
I'm, everything is at risk.
Yeah.
You know?
There have been moments
where I'm like, "Oh, no."
Yeah.
You know?
So it's a book about suffering, and
let's jump to the New Testament.
The first book of the New Testament
written is not Matthew, it is James.
And James starts out, James
1:2, um, "Count it all joy when
you fall into various trials."
So.
I mean, uh, knowing that
bit of information, which
I didn't know that, um...
I mean, I knew what James is about.
I know what- Yeah, yeah ... I know
what James says, but I did not know
that James was the first book of
the New Testament that was written.
Um, obviously, I know they're
not in chronological order.
Right.
You know?
Um, but I did not know it was James.
Having that piece of information
and knowing that it mirrors the fact
that Job is the first one, I, I think
that's pretty, it's a pretty clear
indicator that God is like, "Hey- You're
gonna- ... there's gonna be suffering."
You're gonna go through some stuff.
Yeah.
Um, but he says, "Count it all joy,"
and, you know, if he had said, "Count it
all sadness," you probably could relate.
Okay, yeah, I can do that.
I got it.
Yeah.
I can count it all sadness
when I'm going through trials.
Easy peasy.
Yeah.
Uh, but when, if you want me to count
it all joy, mm, that's gonna be hard.
That's gonna be hard.
Mm-hmm.
But that's what he said to do.
And so let's just jump in to this
story, and I'm gonna read again.
When we read, I'm gonna
read out of The Voice again.
Um, and Jill, what are
you gonna read out of?
I'll be, I'll be out of The Message.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, uh, Job had a really
wealthy, um, life at first.
He had, um, seven sons and
three daughters, I think.
It does kind of mention that he is already
a grandfather, so I'm sure that he...
I can't remember what verse
it is, but we'll find it.
I'm sure that he had grandchildren.
Um, he, he had cattle.
He ha- He was wealthy.
He was married, and he was
wealthy, and he had it going on.
So, um, in verse six of chapter one,
I'm gonna read, "Now, one day," and this
is, picture you're in heaven right now.
Um, "Now, one day it came time for the
sons of God, God's heavenly messengers,
to present themself to the Eternal One to
give reports and receive instructions."
Um, take a minute and think about that.
Like, is this a daily thing?
And I know he doesn't go by our, our time.
But how often does this happen,
that they go give reports to God?
Like, show up for a report session.
I don't know, for some reason that
makes me think of a staff meeting.
You know?
It does make me think of a staff meeting.
So, um, and the accuser
was with them there.
So- The, uh, the messenger, the Message
version calls him the designated
accuser, which reminds me of, like,
designated survivor and, you know.
Yeah.
So, and I find that interesting
that he shows up at this meeting.
He has to.
He has to do what God says.
Yeah.
So he ... But also, I view it
as no one can keep themself from
God's presence, because it's- Right
so, um, drawing.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you want to be in His presence.
And when you think about ... I
know Pastor Chris told me once,
like, when, you know, in the New
Testament when demons rushed to Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
Like, when they possess somebody or,
or whatever,, the demons rushed to
Jesus because even though, you know,
they didn't want Him to cast them out
or ... They wanted to be ... They,
they went to Him, not away from Him.
They didn't run away.
I find that interesting, too,
after Pastor Chris told me that.
I was like, "Yeah, that's true," you know?
But anyway, uh, the Eternal One, uh, said
to the accuser, "Where have you been?"
How, what tone did He say this in?
"Where have you been?"
Like, 'cause you know he already knows.
I mean, yeah, I, I get the impression
based on how we hear God talk to Job
later- ... and how God talks to me.
And me.
I'm like, I can see Him just kind of like
side-eyeing and be like, "Where you been?"
You know what I mean?
Like- Yeah ... let's hear it, buddy.
So the accuser says, "Oh, roaming
here and there, running about the
earth and observing its inhabitants."
That's not all you doing, Satan.
Mm-mm.
But- But conveniently,
he did, he did not lie.
No.
But he omitted- Well, he knows he can't.
Well, exactly, but he omitted the part
that he didn't, he didn't really wanna do.
And that's, that's how Satan treats us.
Yeah.
Like, he, he will omit the
important parts of what is going on.
And so he'll give you just enough
truth for you to be like, "Yeah."
Yeah, that's true.
And to believe what he's, the just
nonsense and- Yeah ... ridiculousness
coming out of that dude's mouth.
Yeah.
Um, so this is where, like, you
know ... Man, this is a hard part
to, to really, um, think about to me.
So God picks the fight with
Satan on behalf of Job.
Job, you know, is, like we've said,
he, he serves God, he loves God.
He's blessed because of it.
And then God says, "Well, have
you looked into my servant, Job?
Have you considered him, my ser- you know,
have you- Have you thought about him?
Which, you know, would Satan have?
Probably not, but God kinda pushes him to
Satan's forefront, and he, God says, "He
is unlike any other person on the whole
earth, a very good man, his character
spotless, his integrity unquestioned.
In fact, he so believes in me
that he seeks in all things
to honor me and deliberately
avoids evil in all his affairs."
Basically giving a report to
Satan about how great Job is
and what- He's bragging on Job.
Yeah, he's bragging on his boy.
The creator of the
universe- ... is bragging on Job.
And then, uh, Satan is like, "Well,
I won't argue with you that he is
pious, but is all of this believing
in you and honoring you for no reason?
Haven't you encircled him with your very
own protection and not only him but his
entire household and all that he has?
Not only this, but your blessing
accompanies whatever his hand touches.
And see how his possessions have grown?
It's easy to..."
You know, he's like, "It's easy to
be so pious, and bless you, God,
in the face of such prosperity.
So now extend your hand.
Destroy all these possessions
of his, and he will certainly
curse you right to your face."
So God's like, "Hmm, okay."
Let's give it a shot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he's like, "All right."
And notice he said, God's not gonna do it.
He's not gonna mess up Job.
Right.
He's like, "I delegate this task to you.
His possessions are now in your hand.
One thing, though.
There's one rule to this first part.
You can't lay a finger on Job,
not, he cannot be touched."
And I bet he, the accuser, shot
out of there like- As fast as
possible ... bat out of Hades.
Because it says, "All in one day."
Mm-hmm.
One day, Job loses everything.
So he, you know...
I think, what does it say?
Like, his, somebody steals all his biz.
It's like, as one person is giving Job
a report of having lost everything in
one spot- You've lost all your cattle.
Yeah You lost all your donkeys.
You lost everything Somebody else comes
in, and he's like, "Oh, by the way,
you've lost all this other stuff, too."
Yes.
And h- you know, all of his kids,
family, he had seven sons and three
dollar- daughters, like you said.
Mm-hmm.
They were all in the house, a house
together, basically having a party.
Mm-hmm.
And- A tornado came in ... a tornado.
It, it says something other
than tornado, but yeah.
The messenger calls it a tornado.
Yeah.
One, the version I was reading.
But yeah, it just comes in and destroys
them all, and they are all dead.
Now, that is a blow.
Um, things you can replace.
People, mm-mm, you cannot.
Yep.
So I don't know, you know,
ugh, I can't even imagine
that, but all of them at once.
So, like, the, this says, you
know, what he was losing, and
then it says, "While the words
were still leaving the messenger's
mouth, another messenger arrived."
There were three, no, four
messengers that came, and the
last one was about his family.
Yep.
Um, it, like, all the four
corners of the house collapsed.
Everyone is dead, all of those
young people, every last one.
I'm the only one- Except me ... that
could get out and tell you.
I'm the only one.
And conveniently, like,
he was not related.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, he was a servant, so yeah.
Well, yeah, but I'm just saying,
like- Yeah ... he, he lost everything.
Okay.
Everything.
This, this one dude.
Yeah.
And Job then, interestingly enough,
stood up, tore his robe, shaved his
head, and fell to the ground face
down, sprawled in the dirt to worship.
I don't know that I could have done it.
I don't know that that'd be
the first thing I would do.
Yeah.
Um, and he said, "I was naked."
What does your version say there?
But I, I mean, I- It says, "Naked
I came from my mother's womb.
Naked I'll return to
the womb of the earth.
God gives.
God takes.
God's name be ever blessed."
Yeah.
And this is where theology of mine
would be challenged because everybody
can get behind a God who gives.
Mm-hmm.
Yay, God, yeah, give, give, give
me, give me, give me, give me.
Mm-hmm.
But he says, "The Lord gives,
and the Lord takes away.
Blessed be the name of the Lord."
And it's hard to have a theology
for that, but there it is-
Mm-hmm ... in black and white.
Very first book written,
it's letting you know.
Very first chapter.
Yeah.
Still bless the name of the
Lord, 'cause that's what Job did.
Mm-hmm.
So that's, that's the first round.
But it also, at the end of that, it says,
"Not once through all of this did Job sin.
Not once did he blame God."
And I think that that's interesting
to see that it, he clearly grieved.
Yeah.
Grief is not the problem.
Yeah.
It is not...
It's not sinful to grieve.
It's not sinful to say, you
know, "I hate that I lost this."
Or to even question God.
Right.
What, what are you doing?
Right.
And it, it is, questioning God
is not the same as blaming God.
No.
Not, not the same.
So here we go for round two.
Yep.
Y'all ready for it?
Okay.
So, the, round two, round two starts in
chapter two, and it starts out, "Now, one
day it was time for the sons of God, God's
heavenly messengers, to present themselves
to the eternal, eternal one to give
reports, um, and receive instructions.
And the accuser was there again, also
ready pr- to present himself to him."
And the eternal one says,
"Where have you been?"
Like he doesn't know.
I just think that's so funny.
It, it just is- My version says,
"And what have you been up to?"
Like, so.
And he says again, "Oh, roaming here
and there, running about the earth
and observing its inhabitants."
And God says, "Well, have you looked
into the man, Job, my servant?"
He goes on to say the same things.
He, you know, basically is, like, bragging
on him again, and he says, um, you know,
"Despite the fact that you provoked me
to wreck him for no particular reason,
to take away my protection and his
prosperity," like, he still blesses me.
He blesses my name.
So the accuser says, "Well,
as they say, skin for skin.
It's easy to be so pious
in the face of such health.
Surely a man will give what he
has for the sake of his own life.
So now extend your hand, afflict
him, b- both bone and body, and he
will curse you right to your face."
And then God's like, "Mm..."
This is not in the Bible,
but he's like, "Mm, okay.
Go for it."
But you can't kill him.
That was the rule then.
You cannot kill him.
So again, Satan shot out like a bat out of
Hades and went and, you know, immediately
infected Job with a painful skin disease.
From the soles of his feet to the crown of
his head, his body was covered with boils.
And Job took a broken piece of
pottery to scrape his wounds.
And while he sat in the ashes just
outside of town, his wife comes in.
And I don't know if her, uh, his wife
loved God at all, so what does your
version say that she said to him?
She says, in verse nine it says,
"His wife said, 'Still holding onto
your precious integrity, are you?'"
"Curse God and be done with it."
I mean, that's like- And then-
Of course, she's grieving.
Yeah, she's grieving, and
we say things in grief.
Yes, we do.
But also, like, girl, get, get control.
Whatever.
But, you know, this just
happened the day before.
That's true.
You know, so she is in the midst of
grief, and I'm not gonna give her
too hard of a time because I have had
said something when I'm extremely sad
that I'm like, "What in the world?
Why did I say that?"
Yeah.
Clearly.
Even, like, 30 minutes
later I'm like, "Girl, wow."
Yeah.
So I'm gonna give her a little pass.
Yeah.
I mean, no, she shouldn't have said it.
And then Job says, you,
what- But then, yeah.
Then Je-hub, Job, he ponies up with her.
Yeah.
And I, I love it.
He says in verse 10, he told her, "You're
talking like an empty-headed fool."
"We take the good days from God.
Why not also take the bad days?"
Yeah.
Not once through all of this did Job sin.
He said nothing against God.
Yeah.
Oh, that's hard.
But that doesn't say he didn't
say anything- I know ... bad.
That doesn't say that he didn't complain.
That doesn't say that he wasn't
like Listen, in my mind's eye,
maybe Job's wife was just tired of
hearing about the itching boils.
Maybe she was just tired of
like- I mean, it just happened,
girl ... it did just happen.
But I don't know, maybe he's...
You know, like, the man flu.
Like- ... Ben can have the man flu for 10
minutes, and I'm like, "I've had enough."
Like- Yeah ... we've all been sick.
It's not that bad.
Right.
Like, come on.
Yeah.
Do you not think I'm
going through anything?
Like, if you're...
I almost read it like, if you hate life
so much, I guess curse God and go- die.
Like, I don't know.
Maybe.
Was she being sarcastic?
Maybe she said it in that tone.
I don't know.
Maybe.
We'll have to ask her.
You know, that's what we
don't get from text is tone.
Yeah.
That's true.
You have to inflect your own tone into it.
Yeah.
True.
I'm just trying to make her out to be
not as terrible- Yeah ... as it seems.
Well, and the point is, he
was not going to give in.
He was not gonna blame God.
He was still...
You know, he had his
faith and stuff, so oi.
But then his friends come, his good old
friends, and just to say the first three
friends, three friend- maybe four friends.
Mm, it was three, I think.
But then the fourth...
There's four.
There's three that are named initially.
Right away.
Yeah.
And it was...
You, you take it, girl.
You take their names.
Eliphaz.
Eliphaz.
Um, Zophar, and Bildad.
Okay.
I don't think I said those in order.
You wanna say Eli- I think it's
Eliphaz ... Bill, and Zo- Well,
there's another Eli later.
Oh, that's true.
That's true.
We can call him Faz.
Yeah, call him Faz.
Faz, Bill, and Zo.
Yep.
Okay.
They come, and they got together.
Well, this is- They left them
home ... what, this always sticks
out to me, that they say that they
each traveled from his own country.
So Job was so, like- Well-known
... well-traveled, well-known.
He was such an important dude,
was so well-established that his
buddies were in other countries.
Yeah.
And they were like, "Oh, my word."
Yes.
Like, "Let's go."
And when they got there, they s-
when they were still afar off,
they s- caught sight of Job.
His sores were so for- severe, um,
a- and his appearance so changed that
they almost didn't recognize him.
And it says that they cried out, burst
into tears, tore their robes, reached
down into the dust and covered themselves,
which I think, what great friends.
Yeah.
Like, for real, like, they're going...
It reminds me what Becky said, you know.
Mm-hmm.
"Can't believe this would happen to us.
Yeah, I never thought this would happen
to us," but, um, on our earlier episode.
But, um, and then they sat down
with him on the ground and stayed
with them, him there for seven
days and seven nights, mourning as
though he was, he were already dead.
Yeah.
Um, no one spoke a single word.
Because they saw his profound ... 'Cause
then you get, you get to a point
where you're just like, "I have
This is my closest friend, and I cannot
comfort them, so I'm just gonna sit here."
Yeah.
We've both done that for each other.
Mm-hmm.
Like- You just sit-
Yeah ... in the mess with them.
You're just like, "Okay."
And then you ... If you do say
something, you're like, "Well, that's
dumb," because I, I mean, I do.
I'm like, "Well, that's not helping."
But you feel like you
should say something.
But they sat there in silence it said.
So they, they were that moved and, you
know, felt so sorry for him at first.
So- At first.
At first.
Because, you know, friends, you
know, well, I mean, I mean, you know,
they try to solve your problems.
Yeah.
And, you know.
Provide perspective.
Yeah.
And help.
Yeah.
And I do think that they did try to help.
And- I think genuinely each
of them thought that they,
they had figured it out.
Yeah.
And they were trying to be like,
"Okay, I, I know, I know what to do."
Yeah.
Like, "Let's, let's do this."
So, um, then Job starts talking and breaks
the silence, and he spoke a curse not
upon God, but upon the day of his birth.
So he waxes- And he was thorough
about it ... waxes poetic.
He does.
And, uh, what does it ... Just give us
a little bit from the message 'cause
I bet- The first sentence of his curse
is, "Obliterate the day I was born."
Second sentence, "Blank out
the night I was conceived.
Let it be a black hole in space.
May God above forget it ever happened."
Mm.
"May the day of my birth be buried
in deep darkness, shrouded by
the fog, swallowed by the night.
And the night of my
conception, the devil take it."
Yeah.
And that's, uh, pretty much taking
care of the rest of chapter three.
We're not gonna go- Yeah ... chapter
by chapter, but- I mean, he unleashes
the sea beast Le- Leviathan on it.
Like, I mean- That's where the Leviathan
is mentioned, and everybody wants to
know where it talks about it because
this is a dragon-like creature.
Mm-hmm.
I looked that up last night for True,
because he was t- asking me about, uh,
if there were fire-breathing dragons.
And I was like, "Yeah, talks
about it in the Bible."
Yeah.
So that's where we first
hear about it, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It's a fire-breathing,
dragon-like creature.
So yes, kids, there was one.
Maybe more than one, I don't know.
Uh, it does talk about somewhere in the
Bible where God defeated one of them.
Mm-hmm.
Where ... We'll get into
that a different episode.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
That's a different story, different
chapter, but- That's just a teaser
for something to come later.
Yeah.
So okay.
Then his friends start in.
Um, Faz- Faz ... starts it.
'Cause okay, so we, they just
heard Job complaining about the day
he was born, and you don't wanna
hear your friend talk like that.
Mm-mm.
So he's like, "Okay, you're not, you
are not listening to your own advice."
Like, rebukes him, . And he's, just
saying, "You need to trust God," you know.
And in chapter five- 17 through 27,
he's like, "You need to trust God.
He'll heal you and protect you,
um, once He is done punishing you."
Right.
So, like- Clearly you've done something.
Yeah.
And then, um, Job's response, you
know, responds to him, um, he basically
saying, "I have the right to complain."
Like, I- it's not...
I'm, I'm the one going
through this, you know?
And, um- And these aren't small things.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
This isn't a hangnail, man.
Basically saying- Yeah ... show
me where I've been wrong.
Yeah.
Like, show me.
Show me.
And this is, guy is,
Job is, like, righteous.
So, , basically they're just
talking back and forth amongst
themselves and, you know, arguing.
Um- Mm-hmm ... then it gets, Bill comes
in and Good old Bill ... um, basically
saying, , "Confess your sins, Job.
You've obviously done something.
Um, confess it.
We're here.
We'll help you through it."
, Then Job answers him, basically saying,
, "I don't, I haven't done anything.
Why are y'all treating me bad?"
, , he's starting to then kind of go to
God and be like, "Uh, what's the deal?"
Yeah.
He wants a mediator- Yeah ... to
line up and be like, "Hey,
go talk to God on my behalf.
Figure out- Yeah ... w-
why is this happening."
Why?
Why?
Why, why is it happening?
Then everybody, everybody has been there.
Mm-hmm.
Everybody.
Even about tiny, ridiculous things.
Yeah.
Hangnails.
Like- Oh, geez, why is
this happening to me?
Why?
This is the worst thing
that's ever happened to me.
Yep.
You know.
So this goes on and on and on between
him and his friends for chapters,
chapters and chapters and chapters.
It's lengthy.
It is.
And you, if you wanna read it, read
it in something like The Message.
It's...
I'm not gonna say it's comical.
It's not comical.
It's not comical.
It's just so relatable.
Yeah.
Um, because you're like, I mean, some
of the things they say, how they say
it, um, course now we are watching this.
Like, we are observers
while we're reading it.
You know, like, we are
watching this play out.
But remember, they are living this
in real time with no scripture.
Right, with nothing to
go back to other- Right.
Yes ... I mean, clearly they're
not the first people on the planet.
No.
So they do have, like, folklore.
They have- Yes ... oral stories that
have gone back- That they now have- But
they don't have scripture to be like,
"God's, God's word says this, this, this."
Or such, you know, things are at such at
our fingertips now, and we can be like,
"How does God help with s- depression?"
Exactly.
Give me scripture, and then you're
like Googling- Exactly ... or
looking up in the Bible gate.
Chat GPT-ing or whatever.
Do not chat GPT the Bible,
'cause they will not tell.
Just ask for sources if you do.
I mean, they, they do.
And then check the sources.
Like, honestly, every time I
Google something, I go and see
if that's really what it says.
Mm-hmm.
Because I've caught so many mistakes.
So many.
And like, we all appreciate the reels,
or reels, the like G- GIFs or memes
people post about- Mm-hmm ... scripture,
but then I'm always looking it up.
Yeah.
Is that really what it says?
Exactly.
Well, you, you have to.
Yeah.
You have to get your, your
word out and make sure.
Listen, I've used Chat GPT.
Yeah.
Most of the time it's like
a, "Where do I find this?"
And then I go and l- read it for myself.
Yes, read it in your Bible.
But I do that for a lot of
things, not just the Bible.
You just can't trust Chat GPT- You
can't ... or Google for legitimate-
You can't ... information anymore.
And it, it goes back to, you know,
Adam and Eve and, like, Satan will try
to twist God's word any way he can.
Is that really what he said?
Yes, exactly.
Is that really what he said?
Let's, let's take what he said
and twist it and make it what
is gonna satisfy our flesh.
Yes.
Yes.
That's the oldest trick in the book.
Yep.
Thanks, Satan.
So this goes on, still goes
on for chapters and chapters.
I may have to take a little break here
so I can- So we can- Look at, look at
where he is ... go through our notes.
E- Elihu, start back here.
Elihu starts his little mon-
monologue, um, in chapter 32.
Jill, okay, tell us what Elihu
talks about, 'cause he's the
fourth friend that comes in.
He is younger-
Right ... than everyone else.
Yeah.
And tell us what he says.
So he comes in and he's
like, "Listen, I'm young.
I'm younger than y'all.
You are old and experienced, and
that's why I kept quiet and held back
from joining in this discussion."
Like, I thought, "Okay, these
e- these experienced guys,
they've lived longer than me.
They've been through more stuff than me.
They're gonna know how to handle this."
Mm-hmm.
"So I've just sat back and watched, but
you guys are, you're missing the point."
Like, it doesn't matter.
If, Job, if you've done something
wrong, you need to handle it.
But if you swear that you haven't,
that doesn't matter either because
God is clearly doing something here.
Yeah.
Like, God isn't wrong.
He's just, and maybe this
isn't about punishment.
Maybe it's about instruction.
Maybe it's about, you know, warning.
There, there's other stuff going on here.
You might be missing something.
Yeah.
So he really just kind of admonishes all
of them about like- Go Elihu ... this
isn't about punishment necessarily.
Yeah.
Okay, so in Job 38, um, this is when
God starts getting off his- Which one?
Getting off his chair, chapter 38.
Okay, let me jump ahead.
Yeah.
Um, and I like how, I can't remember
which version it is, but this one
says, "Out of the raging storm."
This one says, "Violent storm."
Um, in one of the versions it says,
"From the eye of a violent storm."
Now- That's this one ... it,
this is what I picture.
You know, I've never been in
the eye of a storm I don't
think, um, like the dead center.
But I've, really feel like
it's kind of quiet there.
It is.
Like, scientifically they talk about- Yeah
... like, it almost like imagine the movie,
in my head, imagine the movie Twister.
Yeah.
Like, where you're, they're in
it and they're looking around and
then, like, they see the cow go
by- Yes ... and all the things.
It's calm.
You can, you can stand in the middle.
Yeah.
... But you also see everything-
Mm-hmm ... that's going around
you when you're in a storm.
Yep.
Like, I've never been in the middle
of a tornado, but I can just imagine
what that would look like if I was
in the middle and every side of
me is surrounded by chaos and- Yep
destruction, and it'd be scary.
But- Yeah ... God's with him in the middle
of this storm and he starts talking.
I want Jill to do this one
Okay ... 'cause it's so good.
'Cause I mean, I feel like this
is, our very first discussion about
Job years ago, you're the one that
kinda got me interested in the story
because of the way you put things.
I don't even know where we were
and why we were talking about that.
I don't either, but- It
was so good, so go ahead.
Okay.
Well, I'll just read the
first little bit together.
All right.
And it says in ch- uh, chapter
38 verse one, "And now finally,"
like, I love that it says finally.
Like God's standing up.
Yep.
He's had enough.
"And now finally God answered Job
from the eye of a violent storm.
He said, 'Why do you confuse the issue?
Why do you talk without knowing
what you're talking about?
Pull yourself together, Job.
Stand up on your feet.
Stand tall.
I have some questions for you, and
I want some straight answers.'"
This is where the parent-
Yes ... I can see.
I'm just gonna have to call you out, Mom.
This is where I see my mom so much.
I probably have done this
with my kids too, but listen.
You don't mess with Judy.
No.
Um, listen, sidebar.
I have, I have sent Carrie, like,
potential posts on Facebook- ... and
Instagram, whatever, and I have been
like, "Is Judy gonna say this is tacky?"
'Cause if Judy says this is
tacky, I'm not posting it.
And I love Mama.
I love how she brought us up.
I'm not, like, downing that at
all, or I'm gonna get in trouble.
So, Mom- Yeah ... you did a great job.
I really do think that.
But- Yeah ... um- But
this is very parental.
Yeah.
Yes.
It is.
Go ahead.
He says, "I, I have some questions for
you, and I want some straight answers.
Where were you when I created the Earth?
Tell me, since you know so much."
The, and y'all, I'm telling you,
this is exactly how God talks to me.
Yeah.
So, like, oof.
Yes.
It says, "Who decided on its size?
Certainly you'll know that."
"Who came up with the blueprints
and the measurements, how
its foundation was poured?
And who set the cornerstone while
morning stars sang in chorus and
all the angels shouted praise?
And, and who took charge of the ocean when
it gushed forth like a baby from the womb?
That was me."
Mm-hmm.
"I wrapped it in soft clouds and
tucked it in safely at night, and
then I made a playpen for it, a strong
playpen so it couldn't run loose.
And I said, 'Stay here.
This is your place.
Your wild tantrums are
confined to this place.'
And have you ever ordered the morning,
'Get up,' told dawn, 'Get to work'?
No.
So you could seize Earth like a blanket
and shake out the wicked like cockroaches?
As the sun brings everything to light and
brings out all the colors and shapes and
the cover of darkness is snatched from the
wicked, they're caught in the very act.
Have you ever gotten to the true
bottom of things and explored the
labyrinth caves of the deep ocean?"
And he goes on, and then he
says, "Speak up if you ever have
the beginning of an answer."
Like, not even speak up
if you have an answer.
If you have the beginning of an answer.
Yeah.
Go on.
Speak up.
I'd love to hear it.
He goes on for two chapters.
Yeah.
Is this chapter 38 you're reading from?
Yeah.
So in chapter 40.
Okay.
Go to there, because this is,
uh, verse two, um- Okay ... he
says, "Have you had enough?"
Yeah.
"Have you heard enough from me?
Will you, will the one who finds fault
with the highest one now make his case?
Let God's accuser answer him."
And I love the way Job-
Job answers ... answers.
Go ahead and read that in The Message.
Um, in verse three it says, "Job
answered, 'I'm speechless, in awe.
Words fail me.
I should never have opened my mouth.
I've talked too much, way too much.
I'm ready to shut up and listen.'"
But God isn't done, like any good parent.
He's, he's like- That's so- This, this
gives me the picture of so many times,
like, trying to get out of a lecture.
Yes.
Like, I'm sorry.
I tried to jump the gun with- With
both my parents, not just my mom.
But like, "Okay, I'm sorry, I'm
sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry."
Like, I don't wanna, I
don't ... Okay, I'm sorry.
Yeah, you're right.
I'm wrong.
Uh-uh, this is me, if you can picture
Carrie walking down the hall to my
room and Judy following Carrie down the
ha- ... Oh, no, no, not done, not done.
No.
No, you're gonna sit here and
listen to the rest of this.
Right, because she knows,
like the, any parent knows,
you haven't gotten the point.
Nope.
Like, you're done lis-
Like, you're done wanting
to hear what it is.
Like, you've been begging for me to
tell you, and now I'm telling you, and
you're like, "Ooh, that's not exactly
what I thought was gonna happen.
I'm gonna back out."
And nope, you asked for the point,
we're gonna get to the point.
And he goes on for the rest of chapter 40.
Mm-hmm.
He ain't done after 40.
No.
'Cause 41 starts with,
"Now, let us not stop here."
And he goes on.
What of the Leviathan?
He talks about the Leviathan again.
Can you haul it out on the end of a hook
or strap down its tongue with your line?
Like, he just says, um, just goes on.
Like, on and on through chap,
that chapter too, as well.
Like, as well, I mean.
Mm-hmm.
Until 42, the top of 42.
Job.
Job says Job answers God, "I'm convinced.
I'm convinced."
Like, you don't have to tell me more.
"I'm convinced, God.
You can do anything and everything.
Nothing and no one can upset your plans.
You asked, 'Who is this muddying
the water, ignorantly confusing the
issue, second-guessing my purposes?'
I admit it.
I was the one.
I babbled about things far
beyond me and made small talk
about wonders way over my head.
You told me, 'Listen, and
let me do the talking.
Let me ask the questions.
You give the answers.'
I admit, I once lived by rumors of you."
Mm.
That's when he knows who God is.
After- Mm-hmm ... that was so
necessary for Job to hear, "No,
no, let me tell you who I am."
Right.
And told him how Like, just how
thoroughly in charge of- And
sovereign and- ... everything.
Yes ... like, I see the last detail.
And we've talked about that
on this podcast before.
He sees all the details, and He makes
things work, details we don't even
think that we care about, but we do.
Right.
So after that, um, after Job's
second apology, and I feel
like the second one is better.
Yep.
Like, um- I feel like it's- ... I get it.
I got you ... it's the beginning
of understanding, yeah.
Then Uh, is, is God done?
Nope.
Mm-mm.
'Cause then this would be
something that Judy would do,
too, 'cause she's a good parent.
Yep.
She gonna, He gonna, God's gonna
turn on his friends, too, and
just take care of them, too.
Yep.
'Cause, uh, my mom was not
afraid to get onto my friends.
Yep.
Um, not that she did it a lot.
A lot of times she would get
onto to them by getting onto me.
Like, "You need to let your friends
know," yeah, that they don't need
to be doing this or whatever.
They don't need to be talking
like that or whatever.
Um, but He just addresses them
because He's God, and He Kind
of whips them, too Straight up.
I've had it with you and your two friends.
I'm fed up.
Yeah.
So which two friends?
Uh, the message says, "After
God had finished addressing Job,
he turned to Eliphaz," so, or
Eliphaz, so Phaz, and, um- Bil?
I think Bil Think all of them.
Yeah.
And Zophar.
Yeah, and Zophar.
Zophar's later.
He left Elihu out.
He did leave Elihu out.
Because Elihu defended God.
Yeah.
Elihu was like- Yeah ... "You guys, you
better get your-" "Back up the train.
Yeah."
"I've been in..."
I feel like Elihu was like, "I've
been down this road before."
Warning, warning, warning.
I just feel like there's-
Stop talking about it.
it, there's always, God's gonna
put somebody in your, in your
circle that has at, at some, and
they might be quiet at first.
Yeah.
But there, there's gonna be somebody
who has some clear perspective.
I feel like you've done
that with me, for sure.
Well, same.
Like, you've been like- Yeah ... "Okay, I
listened to your complaining long enough.
This is who God is."
Yeah.
"Okay.
Whatever."
Like, but also, it's important
to have that time of complaint.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You g- you gotta be able to vent,
but you c- you just got to, you've
gotta accept that God knows and
He is going to restore eventually.
It may not be ... It, you may suffer long,
but when it's over, it's over suddenly.
Yeah.
You know?
It, there's a verse about that, and I'm
gonna try to look it up in a minute.
But why don't you, while I'm looking
that up, start with verse 10.
Okay.
And it's not very long till the end
of Job, and read what, what he says.
Okay.
So verse 10, we're, we're
still in chapter 42, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
So chapter 42, verse 10 says, "After
Job had interceded for his friends, God
restored his fortune and then doubled it.
All his brothers and sisters and friends
came to his house and celebrated.
They told him how sorry they
were and consoled him for all
the trouble God had brought him.
Each of them brought
generous housewarming gifts.
God blessed Job's later life
even more than his earlier life.
He ended up with 14,000 sheep,
6,000 camels, 1,000 teams
of oxen, and 1,000 donkeys.
He also had seven sons
and three daughters.
He named the first daughter
Dove, the second Cinnamon,"
, "and the third Dark Eyes.
There was not a woman in that country
as beautiful as Job's daughters.
Their father treated them as equals
with their brothers, providing
them the same inheritance.
Job lived on another 140 years,
living to see his grandchildren
and, um, four generations of them.
Then he died an old man, a full life."
That's, that's awesome.
And I mean, what else do you want?
You want- I wanna know
what happens with his wife.
Well, I mean, he had,
he had more children.
Yeah.
So- Clearly there was a wife There
was, and it might have been her.
Like we said- Yeah ... she was grieving.
Yeah.
Um, and, you know, God I'm
sure dealt with her too.
It's, it's interesting that he, they
don't discuss God dealing with her-
so in Luke 18, one of my favorite
passages too about the persistent widow.
Um, we're gonna look this in the King
James, because I think this is...
I've, I listened to someone preach
on this, and they said this is the
truest, um, translation with the
Hebrew version of it, um, because
the Go- do you have it pulled up?
Mm-hmm.
Then you can read it.
Yeah.
You read it.
So in Luke 18, um, verse seven it
says, "And shall not God avenge his
own elect, which cry day and night unto
him, though he bear long with them?"
Verse eight says, "I tell you
that he will avenge them speedily.
Nevertheless, when the Son of Man cometh,
shall he find faith on the earth?"
Okay, so even though you suffer long
and you feel like you are suffering a
long time, when it happens, when it's
done, because there is an end date
to pain- Correct ... and suffering.
Um, you, it will happen speedily.
So, um,
this is where your faith grows in times
like this, and if you can look at it
like God is trusting you with a trial,
because he, like, he trusted Job.
He knew, he already knew- Mm-hmm
... that it was going to, you know...
It was gonna be okay.
It was gonna be more than okay.
He was gonna get double, but he
trusted Job's, uh, personality and
his faith in him to weather the storm.
Right.
And his friends too, I guess.
You know, they had to learn a
lesson, too, and I'm sure they did.
Mm-hmm.
'Cause I'm sure they knew what happened
to Job after, and saw- Right ... saw him
prosper, and he lived a while after that.
140 more years.
Yeah, so he got to enjoy that.
I don't know how, how old Job
was, but we know he was a grandpa.
Um, so there you go.
But let's talk about just suffering
real quick before we end it.
So when you find yourself in a
situation of suffering, go after
God like it's your lifeline.
Like it's air.
Yeah.
And because the whole thing
is gonna get personal.
Because, I mean, just,
let's just look at Jesus.
When he had the nails in his feet and
his hands, it got personal real fast.
Yep.
And, and he even said, "My God, my God- Mm
why have you forsaken me?"
Um, it was personal for Jesus,
it was personal for Job, and
it's gonna be personal for you,
but you cannot blame God for it.
Mm-mm.
And your life may come to a halt
in, in certain areas, maybe just
mentally, and, but it's gonna be okay.
It's hard to see that when
you're in the middle of it.
Like, how is this gonna work out?
But I've seen God do it in my life.
Yeah.
Again, I mean, I know that we've
referenced this a lot on the podcast,
God is playing a different game.
Yeah.
We don't know.
I even hate to say it's a game,
'cause it's not, but you know.
Well, I just mean like, he's-
He's in it for the long- He's
doing a different activity.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
And, um, I think you...
I mean, this is why Job is so critical to
our walk of faith, because it shows God's
- his plan for redemption, restoration,
and, you know, that- His belief in us.
Yeah, we can sit there and look at Job
and his friends and be real snotty and be
like, "He didn't, he should've worried."
'Cause we can see the end.
Right.
But if you know that God can see
the end, what more do you need?
I'm preaching to myself too, so, um- It's
easy also, I think, for us to try to,
um, diminish the relatability with Job.
Yeah.
You know, because he did lose
everything, and so it's very easy to
be like, "Well, I, you know, I'm not
gonna, I'm not gonna get anything out
of Job while I'm going through this
particular trial because it's not
anywhere close to what Job dealt with."
So, like, it, in having the, you know,
quote-unquote, healthy perspective of
like you are not legitimately losing
everything- Right ... um, it's easy
for Satan to, again, give us just that
little bit of truth to keep you from
something that could really help you.
It's okay to ask God.
It's, it's okay to get super real with
God and be like, "Why are you doing this?"
But be prepared.
But be prepared 'cause he,
when you get real with God- It
don't- ... God will get real with you.
Yeah.
And, uh, one more thing
I thought of is, um,
we don't like the Book of Job
because, I mean, typically,
this is why I didn't like it.
I didn't wanna hear about his
suffering because it, if I really
heard about it and learned it, it
meant someday I could have a turn.
Ooh.
And I don't want a turn.
I didn't wear closed-toe shoes, Corie.
You just stomped all over them.
I don't wanna have a turn with suffering.
Mm-mm.
None of us do.
Um- Nobody's looking for it.
No.
But just keep your eyes on God, focus
on God, um, and let Him talk to you
in the eye of the storm, because He
will, and you will learn so much.
Well, I think also- In the process
... there have been times where I have, you
know, before I really dug into Job and
learned what God is trying to show me
through Job, um, Job was intimidating
because I, I doubted my own faith.
Like, I doubted if, if God did
bring me that much suffering, would
I be able to stand in my faith?
Like, would I, or would I be like his
wife and be like, "I'm do- I'm out."
Yeah.
"I can't do this."
Well, and it's, his was public.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
And sometimes our suffering is public,
and that's embarrassing sometimes.
Yeah.
Like, I'm just thinking of different
situations where I'm like ... And
sometimes it's not public.
Sometimes it's private, but if it does get
public, just know Job's was public, too.
Yep.
And people questioned his faith
and questioned who he was.
Well, and his very best friends, who
traveled miles and miles and miles to
be with him in his suffering, still
looked at him and said, "I know you
said that you didn't do anything, but
I think you might have done something."
Like, "Rack your brain.
Try to figure it out."
Yeah.
So like, they even were like,
"Uh, maybe you did, though."
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like, not everybody's gonna believe you.
And, and we don't know how
long this lasted with Job.
We know it was at least a week
because- They sat with him for
a week ... they sat with him.
But I mean, you know, I've ... There's
nobody who knows really, I don't
think, because I've looked up
before this, like, it could've been
months, it could've been years.
I don't know.
It could've been days.
I don't know.
Doesn't matter.
It was epic.
Mm-hmm.
And that's all that matters.
And, um, you know, you may
have to go through a, a public
horrible thing, I don't know.
Like- Yeah ... I hope you don't.
Um, but if you do, keep your
eye on God and go after him
like, like Jill said, err.
And s- share what you did with me the
other day about the quicksand thing.
And I'll say- ... in our
generation- Uh, listen ... weren't
we not petrified of quicksand?
Everything had quicksand in it.
Like- Like, the TV shows and
the cartoons and everything
and even at school.
Yeah.
They would teach you about quicksand.
I've really felt like quicksand- But it-
... was gonna be a way more present danger
... is there even any quicksand in Arkansas?
Is there?
I don't know.
I've never- I don't know either.
First of all, if I'm in somewhere
around quicksand, I'm in the
wrong place because I am not
I'll, I'll go outside, you know,
with my grands, have a good old time.
But if I'm somewhere in the forest,
I don't even know if it's in a
forest, there's something terribly
wrong with my life at this point.
Why am I in the woods?
Right.
So like- I don't like bugs.
I don't like ... I, I mean, I can
appreciate woods from a distance,
but I'm not going in there- Yeah
'cause the bugs.
Basically, it's because of the bugs.
Yeah.
Makes me wanna itch all over right now.
I'm with you right now.
But- I'm like, "Why'd we bring it up?"
So, I don't know.
Wherever quicksand is, I was
like, "I don't wanna be near it."
Yeah.
But go ahead.
So it, it really was, I mean, we were
talking about just a situation where,
you know, somebody that we know is, is
really, really going through some stuff.
And, um, and I was like, it, it
feels like things are getting worse.
You know?
It feels like, what is happening?
And I just thought to myself, I don't
know why it popped in my head, but it did.
And so, you know, when they taught
us about quicksand, the way that
they taught us how to get out of
quicksand, it sounds so ridiculous
to even talk about right now.
Like, why did we learn this?
Yeah.
Um, but that- 'Cause someday, who knows?
That and stop, drop and roll.
Like, I really thought- ... were gonna
be so much more prevalent in my life.
Um- Yeah.
But anyway, so with quicksand, the way
that they taught us how to, how to get
out of quicksand was to actually, like,
not struggle, like to be still- Mm-hmm
and to, like, spread out on top of
the quicks- like, to spread out-
Mm-hmm ... as much surface as possible.
So it doesn't make sense to get, like,
as close, like, I'm, I'm ... I don't know
how to- Mm-hmm ... describe this anymore,
but to, like, spread out evenly across the
quicksand so that y- there's more surface
area and you, you don't sink in- Yeah
as quickly, and you can, like ... Well,
and if you're struggling, you're gonna
sink- Yeah, exactly ... in quicksand.
Exactly.
And so when you are in the struggle
and it feels like everything is going
crazy and it's getting worse and worse
and worse, like, it, it can feel like-
Mm-hmm ... it doesn't make any sense.
But maybe you're just spreading
out over your quicksand.
And you've gotta be still.
And you're...
You have to be still.
And know.
You have to trust the process.
Yep.
And then you'll get out of it.
Yeah.
Be still and know.
Yeah.
That He's God and He's got it, and maybe
He, He allows things to happen to us.
I, I don't think He causes...
Like, He's not the reason.
Um, and yes, He can stop any
situation, uh, but He uses situations
to help our faith grow, so.
Well, m- I mean, isn't it- Obviously.
Obviously ... for not just for punishment.
No.
For protection, for warning, for
instruction, and for correction.
Yeah.
Like, punishment is not al- like,
correction isn't always punishment.
Mm-hmm.
But it can, it can feel rough.
So after we talk to Jonah, let's go
sit- Job ... with Job and- Mm-hmm.
I feel like I might wanna see Job first.
Yeah.
Jonah, you can wait.
Jerk.
Jerk.
Okay.
Well, that's...
All right.
I don't guess we have a, we don't have any
other funny questions to ask ourselves,
but- Um, if we wanna pause, we can.
We can plan.
I can look up something and see.
We're gonna pause then.
Okay.
We'll pause.
. Okay, I've got one.
Would you rather only be able to speak in
riddles or have to sing every sentence?
I think s- sing because I feel like
people would get really annoyed with me.
Yeah.
I'd have to sing every sentence.
Riddle me this.
Like- I, I know some people
who kinda do that anyway.
Yeah.
Like, they turn almost
everything into a sing-song.
Yeah, I know somebody like that.
It's not bad.
No.
I'd rather them do that than give
me a riddle because I'd be like,
"I'm not talking to you anymore."
For sure.
I'd be like- Okay.
So let's- ... "Give it to me straight.",
So s- on that note, we are
going to sing our outgoing song.
You ready?
Yep.
Here we go.
Jill and Carrie.
Jill and Carrie.
Jill and Carrie.