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What sets this podcast apart? We believe in the power of meaningful marketing—a holistic approach that prioritises authenticity, connection, and purpose, whilst still turning a profit.
Chantal Gerardy is an International Award Winning Marketing Strategist who empowers purpose-led businesses to revolutionise their online marketing approach and create a brand that resonates deeply with their online audience. If you're tired of cookie-cutter marketing advice, and seek strategies that truly make a difference, this podcast is for you.
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Social media, Google, email marketing, systems, website traffic, and the endless content creation that comes with marketing: it's overwhelming, right? Say goodbye to endless stress and hello to clarity with The Meaningful Marketing Podcast. In this podcast, I will share with you fast and free practical methods to help you manage, monetize, and market your business, all infused with a healthy dose of motivation.
Let's do this. Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Meaningful Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Chantal Gerardy, and I am super excited today to have Greg Gladman here from SalesLP. Greg is a sales and leadership performance coach working with B2B corporate-based businesses, um, who have national sales teams of about five plus, um, in their sales team.
So I'm super excited to have him here today because we're gonna get the juice on, on what is happening right now with selling and closing and sales teams. Um, because leads on their own mean nothing unless you can actually make sales, right? So excited to have you here today.
Thank you, Chantal. Glad to be here.
So how did you get into sales? I mean, let's be honest, a lot of people go, "Selling is icky."
Yeah.
And I know v- very much in the beginning I, I did not like selling at all. Yep. Um, I had to reframe it. I had to say I'm serving, and when I said that it felt better for me. Um, but how did you actually get into sales coaching as such?
Yeah, so, um, it's a very interesting story. So I actually, um, when I left, uh, when I left high school I went into account- did a- studied accountancy and hated it, and I went and took a filler job working at Heinz, uh, in a, as a quality assurance person. And as part of that role I ended up having to put in place, uh, the first ISO 9002 process for Australia and became the nat- and become the national training manager for that business as well.
So I started off doing training and development for people in a factory and found out that I really loved doing training, coaching, and helping the people to be the best they can be at what they do. And took me, uh, quite a while to be able to break away from doing what I'd actually sort of studied to do.
I actually became a m- microbiologist, food scientist. Wow. Then got out of that and started actually selling into the food industry. So that was my first job in sales, was, like, a junior salesperson selling cardboard packaging to food manufacturers.
But do you remember, like, a time when you were younger, like, d- when, when maybe you were a kid or something and, you know, s- maybe somebody said to you, "Oh, you can sell ice to Eskimos."
Like, was there ever that moment that you can think of?
Not for me. Um, I always thought that selling was, you know, being really loud and out there and being able to, you know, talk a lot. Um, turns out that, you know, we've now assessed 2.9 million salespeople around the world, and it's not the case. So the best salespeople are people that are good at asking questions and listening and being able to fix problems.
Oh, I love that. So for me, I was a problem solver. So all of my stuff I was doing in food science was fixing problems. If there was a problem, we had to find a, a, a first a corrective action and a preventative action. How do we put a system and process in place to make sure it never happens again?
Oh, love that.
That- Yeah ... that is, it's so well, well explained, um, and takes it away from that whole selling icky thing- Yeah.
Absolutely ...
as opposed to serving or solving a problem for someone, which is so much more pleasant.
Yes. Yeah, that's what we find is that... And it's funny 'cause, like, certain industries, like engineering and accounting firms, when you say sales training, they automatically, the first-
you know, hour and a half of the session we can see they're uncomfortable in their seat. Yeah. So we help them to position that, hey, sales is becoming a trusted advisor. Yes. Being able to find what their pain points, problems are, and find a solution that's gonna help them to get rid of that pain and frustration.
And then we find that engineers and accountants are our best students- ... because they like following a process.
Yes. Process driven. Yep. I love a process.
Yeah.
So communication, absolutely- Yep ... fundamental, um, in all of this, right?
Yeah.
100%. Being able to listen, obviously ask the right questions. So communication I think would be such a, a huge part of that.
Yeah. And something else you said there as well is that you said, you know, you thought that somebody would have to be out there, and obviously, you know, in our minds we might have this idea that salespeople are, um, extroverts or very loud or very confident people. Um, they're usually the bad salespeople - They are
in my experience.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that are very ego-driven and not, not, you know, focused on problem-solving. So talk to me a little bit about, um, you know, different personality types that you've found when it comes to, to selling.
We, we've got a, an assessment tool that we use, um, that we look at, you know, sales mindset, sales skillset, sales DNA.
We also use personality assessments for, more so for our coaching and how we adjust our coaching. So of those 2.9 million sales assessments, we've got also a good sample size of personality styles. So most people are familiar with the, the, the DISC personality style. Yes. You know, the D, the I, the S. Now, that steady relater, if we look at the top 10% of the 2.9 million, over 80% of the people in the top 10% are the steady relater.
Heart-driven- Yeah ... really able to, you know, th- more about it's around people, and they're h- and they're a little bit lower energy. They're not as out there and in your face, and it's a little bit introverted, but they're really people focused. They wanna actually help people to fix problems. And it's the opposite of what I was taught.
Like, you have to, oh, you know, you have to go into a call, and you have to be really high energy and really try to pump up your, your client. Uh, it's, it's nothing further from the truth.
Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. So you spoke there a little bit about mindset, so I wanna bring that in because obviously- Yeah
mindset and soul, um, in my business is really important for me. Um, and what I've noticed is I d- I did this mindset thing. I'll tell you what I did. I did this mindset activity with my team recently, and I pulled all of them into a call. We have, we have these weekly catch-ups, and I wanted to assess everybody's mindset, where it was at, where it was at.
Now, Brooke, um, she's my social media manager and email marketing person. She's in Brisbane. She's in her, in her mid-20s. I've got a Filipino, and then I've got a South African. Now, for myself, I come from South Africa, so I understand about the mindset stuff when it comes to money. Yeah. I also understand that as a South African, when we say yes and we wanna buy something, we actually mean it.
And when you say yes, you buy something. In Australia, I find you say yes, and then you still have to carry on the conversation. Yes doesn't mean take the money.
Yeah.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. Yeah. So very different from a cultural perspective. So I wanted to do this mindset thing, and I asked them about how much they, you know, whether or not they thought that the program that I was selling was expensive.
And it was really, really interesting getting different people's perspectives and then asking them how those thoughts were actually affecting their job. So if they thought that what we were selling was actually expensive, how they were communicating it through social media, email marketing, through sales calls- Yeah
through their customer service, how was it actually playing out? And it was an absolutely phenomenally interesting session that we had-
Yep ...
looking at the mindset, looking at the cultural differences as well. Um, and then when I brought out, like, all the 300 testimonials that we had and said, "Oh, but we've helped all these people," they could see it from a different perspective.
Yeah. Um, 'cause I think it's in the eye of the beholder. So mindset must play a huge part. If that person doesn't believe in the product, if they've got money mindset issues themselves, how does that play out when it comes to then, for example, asking for the sale?
Massive. Absolutely massive. So, um, we look for 45 different self-limiting beliefs.
Money weakness is one of them, right? Um, if you look at money weakness just as it's on its own, I'll give you a real-life example. So we did an assessment of 100 people selling solar in the home. So you think of a solar sale, it's usually between $6,000 and $30,000 between, you know, panels and batteries and all the other stuff that's there.
They are trying to get a one-call close in the home for a 6 to $30,000 sale, right? Yeah. So what we found is there was a, a direct correlation between those 100 people- The highly successful people had no money weakness. They were totally okay to talk about the price and the money and ask for the business on the spot.
Whereas the people with money weakness and the lower closing rates, they were actually saying, "Look, I know this sounds expensive, but..." And they were ac- so the, it's, it's the tone of voice changes, it's the way, the words that they use, and in some cases they were actually saying, "I know we're more expensive by 30% than the Chinese imports, but we're still gonna be here if there's a problem."
So d- after they said, "We're more expensive," that's all the client's hearing.
Yeah.
And in an ec- in an economy where people are trying to save money, and they're hearing, "Hey, we're 30% more expensive"- Yeah ... they'll actually encourage them to go and get more quotes. Yeah. Now, of these people who are doing that, most of them said, "We don't do that.
We don't say that." So we started to get them to record their calls.
Wow.
They were coming back to these calls and saying, "I cannot believe I said that. I did not know I was saying that." So the subconscious brain is so strong, hence why mindset's so critical.
Yeah. I love this. Yeah. Yesterday, um, we're doing this marketing doers program at the moment, and I've got a website developer inside- Yeah
my program. I'm actually the marketing agency other marketing agencies use, which is kinda cool, for their coaching and their strategy. Um, and she did a positioning statement, and she shared the positioning statement, and the positioning statement was exactly the same. It was like, um, "People don't wanna spend too much money on this.
Um, we're not that expensive. We'll meet you with your own budget." And I was like, "Take that positioning statement and burn it under the moon." I was like, "Please." Yeah. Like, and she, I said, "You've gotta, like, seriously have to have a look at some of your mindset stuff." I sent her some of our resources. But I was like like, that cannot be your positioning statement- Yeah
as your point of difference statement, is, "Oh, yeah, we'll try and work with you on your price," you know? Yeah. Um, and I know she'll listen to this and she'll laugh when she hears me say it,
so So what, what percentage of people do you think actually buy on price and price alone?
Ooh, percentage of people buy on price.
They all say they do, but I don't, yeah, I don't believe they all do. Isn't it on belief systems? Isn't it on their belief systems that they buy? Oh, I feel like I'm being tested now. Every,
every, every industry's a bit different- Okay ... but it's never more than 10%, and in most- Wow ... industries it's less than 5%.
Yeah.
Now, the reason that people... Um, price is the easiest one to say, "Hey, you're too expensive." Yeah. 'Cause it's, 'cause it's, it's trying to negotiate- Yeah, yeah ... a deal. But where that, if you actually were to go and poll and survey- uh, clients or past clients, very few of them buy purely on price. Where they're buying on price is where they're not seeing a value exchange.
Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Excellent. That's so good. Yeah. Oh my gosh, I thought of something now and now I've forgotten it, but it was so good. Yeah, um, I feel like when it comes to, um, buying on price, if you make it about price-
It will be ...
it will be about price. So in your marketing, if you're- Yeah ... making it about that, I don't mind a little bit of cost of inaction, a little bit of FOMO, like time's running out, and putting some of those like time-dependent things on it- Yep
um, uh, to kinda shorten the gap, but as soon as you start talking about price, straightaway they start thinking about it, and that's when- Yeah ... the ickiness st- steps in, right? Cool. So let's just talk about some of the marketing tactics that you've used inside your business, because obviously you work B2B, you work with large corporate ba- based businesses that might have like nationals- national sales team across the country.
Like, so what are some of the methods that you would use? 'Cause we know that B2B and B2C are completely different.
Yeah. So B2B for me has been a lot of speaking events over the years, um, speaking at a lot of CEO forums and, um, you know, things like, um, you know, Vistage and CEO Institute. Um, a lot of, um, I've done a lot of corporate speaking with banks, uh, and you know, where they're trying to bring in their high-wealth individuals who are business owners to help them to grow their business.
So speaking events is, was really huge. Um, took a bit of a dive during COVID, as you can imagine. Uh, and just starting to get back and doing a lot more of that now. Podcasts like this, I do a lot of podcasts all, for companies all around the world, to help them to have a, a different lens and a different view around, you know, things you can do to, to grow sales.
Um, uh, oh, for, probably for us, um, w- we, we do something a little different, uh, where when we're actually signing up a client, like they may have signed or they may not yet have signed, we tell them that, um, we don't spend a ton of money on marketing. Uh, we grow our business by having happy customers and CEOs tell everyone they know about how great we are.
So all that I ask of you is that once we actually deliver you an amazing result, that you're comfortable to give me the referral from other people in your network. Are you okay with that? So I'm asking for permission to ask for referrals before we even do the work.
Love that
Right? Yeah. And then I also let them know, a- and this is a benefit of my business, 'cause we're gonna teach their team how to get amazing at asking for referrals, and getting quality referrals that'll close.
So I've got the, I've got a bit of a h- head start from everyone else, 'cause I can say, "Now, I've gotta practice what I preach. So every quarter when we do our 90-day review- Yeah ... and we set up for the next quarter, I'm gonna ask you to give me two people from your network who can buy from me." So I set it up right from the get-go, and I don't, I do it in a way that's, it's not pushy, it's not rude.
It's just very conversational. "Hey, if I was to o- if I was able to get you some amazing results, why wouldn't you share me to your network?" Yeah. So that's been huge for us. I would say, it's a big figure, probably between 70 and 80% of our new clients come from referrals.
But how awesome is that? Because even you doing that before the sale is basically showing people that you are customer-focused, that you're outcome-focused- Yep
um, that you believe in what you, what it is that you're actually selling. Um, so I actually love that. So I call that the ask principle. It's one of the principles that I teach- Yep ... um, in marketing, because often people just don't ask. They don't ask for support, they don't ask for collaboration, they don't ask for reviews, for referrals.
It's just ridiculous, so.
So we, we look for, um, in, uh, in the assessment tool, we look for how often, how they do it, and how they feel about asking for referrals. And people who are con- consistently asking for referrals from happy customers to who else they know in their network who could benefit from what they do, it's less than 3%.
Right?
Wow. Um,
and if we do a, if we did a organization with 100 people, if we got two people who are consistently asking for referrals, that would be standard. So one of the first things that we do when we're looking at helping them to, to look at how do they get more of the right opportunities in the funnel, it's complementing marketing.
Like when it, don't just rely on marketing for everything, supplement. So be able to have proactive conversations with happy customers to find people in their network who are not competitors to them that they're happy to introduce you to. So if we can get that right, that is the gold nugget. It's the absolute gold nugget.
And again, this comes down to communication, right? But this is also part of the sales process, and this is also part of marketing, right? Yeah. So a lot of people, and we were talking about this earlier before we jumped on, where you said, you know, when it comes to, um, sales training, some people have like, ooh, sales training, what is sales training?
They don't understand that it's, it's the, it's the ecosystem, you know? You talk about sales ecosystem, I talk about marketing ecosystem. Yep. It's the whole thing. It's the structure, it's the systems, it's the conversation, it's the words that you say, the processes that, that you have, the planning that you do, reviewing the data, you know?
So talk to me a little bit about, you know, what that, that sales ecosystem should look like.
Yeah. So with any of our corporate clients that we work with, or even, even small family businesses, we've got some clients that might have, you know- dad, two sons, and an uncle, and that's the team. Um, but we still follow the same methodology.
It's sometimes harder with the larger corporate clients, 'cause it's harder to change the culture and some of the ecosystem that's behind there. But for us, we, we think of it like a, uh, think of it like a, um, like a diagnosis. So before we can actually work out what is the cure, we need to actually know what's working and what's not working.
Yeah. And, you know, what needs a little tweak and what needs a whole rebu- rebuild. So we're coming in to a business and we're looking at, you know, past three years of sales data. We're looking at their sales systems. Do they have a sales process? Is it documented? Is it, is it, um, has it got steps and stages with qualify, disqualify?
Um, do they have a CRM? Do they measure activity? Do they look at conversion rates between activity? Do they have sort of subject adamec- uh, uh, matter experts who they can pull in for key conversations? You know, are they asking great questions? Then we look at salespeople. Do they have the right mindset? Do they have the right DNA?
Or, you know, that, those hidden weaknesses we talked about. Do they have the right skills? Do they know what to do once they have a lead? Uh, we look at the managers, and do the managers know how to coach? Do they coach the team? Do they hold them accountable? Do they keep them motivated? Do they challenge them?
Do they, do they, do they really critique the pipeline? So it's only once we've got all that information that we can actually put together a solid plan.
Mm.
Our partnership programs go for a year, but some of our clients will say, "Look, let's take it for a test run for three months."
Yeah. "
And if that works, we'll keep going."
I'm totally fine with that- Yeah ... 'cause we know that it's gonna deliver the outcome- Yeah ... they're looking for.
People are so funny. You know, I had somebody yesterday say to me, "Oh, can you give me two hours? Can you do my marketing strategy for two hours? Uh, come in, have a look at my entire marketing strategy, and in two hours fix everything, uh, you know- Yep
fix my team, fix me as the delegator, 'cause I know I've got some issues as well." And I'm like, "No- Yeah ... no, you can't. Like, there's, there's no way you can do it." So I love a couple of things that you said there. The one was around looking at the data to be able to make those data-driven decisions. Yep. Most of the time business owners are not looking at it.
No.
I... Every time I talk to a business owner, they'll say to me, "Chantal, I have not looked at that in ages." Um, I, I went and saw a client this week, they hadn't looked at their abandoned cart sequence and insights in months. Luckily, since the last time I'd been there it had gone up by about 13,000 a month or something, um, which is fantastic.
But what she hadn't, what, what she hadn't realized was that she'd turned the second abandoned cart sequence off, so they were losing out on sales from the second abandoned cart sequence. And as the business owner, forgot to go back in and turn it back on again. At some point she was gonna make a change or something.
So this is why having- Yeah ... a fresh set of eyes come in and actually look at all of that is so important, right? Yeah. Um, and then the second part is the skills, and you'll get this all the time as well. When people invest in a marketing person or a salesperson, they'll say, "They should be able to do this job."
Yep
They should be able to understand the product straight away, understand the system and the structure straight away, and they should be able to close straight away. So talk to me a little bit about that.
So when we're assessing for salespeople, we're looking at the right mindset, the right sort of core DNA around, you know, certain things we look for that help or detract from their ability to put their skills into play and the skill sets.
It's also that they've, have experience selling into same or similar market. Price point of product can have a massive difference, and, and just their ability to pick up and learn new things. So you can have an absolute gun salesperson from one industry, you can throw them into a different industry and they'll fail dismally.
So it's not just, "Hey, you're a good salesperson." Um, even inside an industry, like you could have, um, you could have, uh, someone who might sell power tools, and they might have worked for Hilti, which is probably the most expensive power tool in the world, uh, and they are trying to come and sell Ryobi or something like that.
The reality is, is that selling one product versus the other is totally different. The base core skills need to be there, but the salesperson needs to be trained and coached on how to sell that specific product because it's the, the value proposition is different, the positioning statement's different, the pricing's different.
Yes. You know, if you think of someone, and I'll use that Hilti example, Hilti sells itself. It's got a brand awareness that's been around for 50 years. If you're a high-flying person, you've got to have Hilti brand, and they don't care about if there's anything that's better. They'll always buy that brand.
So that person for Hilti is more of a merchandiser, whereas the person for Ryobi, they're used to saying, "Hey, we're not Hilti, but we've got a really cheap product." So they're used to selling on price.
Yeah.
So you've got to make sure that you've got the right person for your product, your industry, and your value proposition, or coach them.
So let's go back to the ecosystem now because- Yep ... um, for the ecosystem, what we know is that people don't say yes straight away. All right? Mm-hmm. We know that people don't say yes straight away. They've got to be warmed up. They've got to be nurtured, and obviously for us, marketing's a huge part of that.
Yep. Um, but for a salesperson, for the following up at, in the, in the structured part of the ecosystem, how would that look? And obviously it's different. Yeah. I could understand it would be different for different sort of industries or businesses and that.
Yes and no. Yeah. Um, but for us, uh, when we're mapping out a sales process, we wanna make sure that there's very specific steps and qualify, disqualify.
Love that.
And if it's qualifying to go to the next stage, we always want the salesperson to get a commitment to that next stage or the next activity every single time. Where they don't is where deals stretch out.
Mm.
So for example, if someone was having a conversation to say, "Yep, this sounds really interesting.
I would love for you to put something a bit more formal together so we can walk through it," rather than saying, "Yep, no worries, I'll come back to you," we'd say, "Right, um, that's gonna ca- take a couple of days. Can we lock in a meeting for Tuesday at 10:00? Is that okay?" Lock it in, set an expectation on time, and then also you're time-bound to get that proposal done- Yeah
to get it done and back to them. But you've locked them in, you've got a verbal commitment to the next stage. Now, the subconscious brain is a very powerful tool. We spend 96% of our time in the subconscious brain. So if we can actually get that subconscious brain of the buyer to think, "Yes, I'm committing to the next stage", that's half the battle.
Yeah, love that. Yeah. I always say it's always about getting those yeses. So it might- Yep ... not be a verbal yes, but it's just about getting the, the yes to the next step, like you said. So that's awesome. Yep. Okay. So let's talk about, um, y- sales is trai- sales is changing all the time, right? Yep. Sales would've changed during COVID, sales changed after COVID.
Um, people are now saying with the looming war and, you know, the financial situation, people are being a little bit more conservative when it comes to certain things. But at the end of the day, we also know that people are always buying as well, right? Yeah. They are actually always b- buying. So what are some of the things that you've seen over the years that have changed, and how have you had to adapt the training that you do in order to be able to accommodate the sales market?
Yes, really great question. Um, I think the big thing, and ties back into obviously your specialty, is the marketing piece. Um, that's changed a lot where there's so much more information available-
Yeah ...
before they pick up the phone and talk to you.
More choice.
Um, so salespeople have to be a lot stronger with knowing the product, the features, the benefits, uh, because the client can-
if you're not cl- if you're not careful, can know more than you can. And that's embarrassing, and they think, "Oh, this guy does n- this guy or girl knows nothing. I'm, I'm gonna go somewhere else." So a lot of that buyer's journey is happening online before they even talk to you. So i- it's, it makes the, the job of a salesperson a lot harder, I feel.
Yeah.
Uh, so you've gotta, you've gotta be, be more aware that they're already aware of a lot of the stuff that you do and maybe don't do already when they're coming in. The other thing that we've seen as a big change is that there's a lot more willingness to do video sales or phone-based sales. So if we go back 10, or 10 or so years ago, everyone wanted to get in front of everybody to do a conversation, including me.
Um, I used to, you know, back in 2012, um, before I was presenting a, a large corporate client, um, I would be making an appointment to go and visit them in their offices. It'd be at least $1,000 round trip and a day out of my life to go and present a solution. Now, um, sometimes I'll, um, really believe in being vulnerable and sharing dumb things, uh, that I've done.
Uh, and, and we started selling into the UK, and in the s- in the space of six months, brought on 50 new clients in the UK. Now, at that time, the only video technology was GoTo Meeting. So I'm closing, you know, 60, $100,000 deals into the UK over video- And then someone says to me, "Well, if you're doing that for the UK, why are you flying around everywhere and closing deals face-to-face in Australia?"
And I went- ... "That's a really good question." So, uh, effective immediately, I stopped locking in face-to-face meetings, 'cause I knew that- Yeah ... I could close them over the phone or over, over, over video. So, you know, sometimes, you know, you get stuck in your own methodology. Even me, like I'm not perfect. Yeah. Uh, and you've gotta have someone just to go, "Hang- why are you doing that?"
Like, "Well, why couldn't you just do that on the video?" So what we do now, when we're helping sales managers to build out individual sales plans for individuals, we look at things like call cycles, but not just face-to-face visits. Phone calls, screen-to-screen, face-to-face. So the more we can get... And look, the- don't get me wrong, there are key activities that are much better to do face-to-face to build that rapport, trust and, and some industries really wanna still shake the hand and see the eyeballs- Yeah
of a human. Uh, but there are so many more things we can do in the front end of the process to speed up, uh, and get better return on time. Uh, and so the use of screen selling is absolutely critical in 2026 and beyond. And I think, um, something else we are seeing, uh, which is a flick back from COVID, is that we went so far the other way around trying to do everything from sitting behind a desk.
People wanna be around people again.
Yeah.
People are, are yearning for human contact. Yes. They want to see you. Yeah. They want you to come out and see them. Look, and obviously some products where it is B2C and it's a small dollar item, you just can't ever visit them face-to-face. Um, there's a lot of data we've gathered over the years, but a face-to-face visit, to go and visit a client face-to-face, is a minimum of 200 bucks to go and visit them.
So if your product is 1,000 bucks and you've got $200 profit, you've just lost money to visit that client.
Yeah.
So it's a lot of stuff around looking at return on time and what is worthwhile as a phone call versus screen-to-fr- screen, versus what justifies going out to visit them face-to-face.
Yeah. So good.
So, so, so good. Okay, so let's step back a little bit and, um, we'll go into the, um, the online marketing stuff, 'cause obviously- Yep ... that's my jam. Yep. And I love that. So for me, social media's all about, you know, lo- know, like, and trust content. It's all about credibility content and- Yep ... and offering, um, showing your expertise as well.
You know, like this podcast, we're sharing our expertise, we're collaborating. It goes out to my network, it'll go out to your network as well. Um, and then, um, people now know that there's a connection between us which is now kind of like a word of mouth referral. There's another- Yep ... trust factor there. Um, I can tell you now that- For us, most people when they're booking calls for us have watched one of my master classes, have watched a podcast, have watch- have re- read one of my blogs.
They have gone and stalked me and they will, they'll know certain things about me. Um, and it's actually a bit weird when I, when I get on a, a call with someone and they'll go, "Oh, this happened to you last week", or whatever, and I'm like, "Yeah, it did. Oh, I didn't even realise you were, like, looking." So.
Yeah.
Um, so I think it's important that, you know, that we really give it credibility, where we go, you know, there is an important part for marketing, right? Yeah, very much. And I think it is important, the, the part I wanna get to with this is that the marketing and the sales people need to talk. The marketing and the sales people need to talk.
This is a huge thing. So what we often see is that you'll have a sales department, you'll have a marketing department. Often there'll be a crossover in the CRM somewhere, but there's no actual communication about, um, the marketing person won't be talking to the salesperson. The salesperson's going, "These are the common objections we're getting," so that the marketing person can now create those, handle those objections in their marketing, and the marketing person will carry on doing the know, like, and trust stuff, but the salesperson will go, "Hold on.
These are some of the issues that we're having. Um, we need to create more marketing on that." Right? That's right. And the marketing person might go, "Look, we're finding that this works really well. We're getting a lot of engagement here." So when they go to the ma- when, when it gets to the salesperson, the salesperson goes, can actually use that content now and go, "We spoke about that.
We spoke about this. We spoke about that." So there's continuity between the marketing and the salesperson so that there's not loss of trust happening.
Yes. Um, it is a constant- Yeah ... challenge that we see, where it's like it's the two opposing forces. Yeah. And in, in, I hate to say this, but a lot of the time it's almost like the blame game.
Yes. "Oh, you're giving me really crap leads. That's why we're not closing more business." Yes. And then the marketing team saying, "We're giving you amazing leads, but you're not closing them." So it also be- almost becomes like a, a internal conflict between the two departments. So one of the things that we do to try and get around that is that when we're actually mapping out the strategy, the plan, the ideal target market, the target audience, the, the value proposition, the positioning statements, we insist that the marketing team must be there.
Love it.
They've gotta be there in the room. They've gotta hear all the stuff that we're walking the salespeople through so they're understanding the full buyer's journey from when they first have initial contact right through to when it's closed won, or lost, because it's important they learn about the losers as well.
Yeah.
And what happens all the way through that journey. We have marketing people coming out of these sales workshops and going- I, I actually now understand what I'm trying to do.
I
know. Right? Like, they- Yeah ... yeah, 'cause they're, the, it's, it often... And look, and some of that is, is, a- as you would know, uh, it's by businesses putting unrealistic expectations, saying, "You need to give me 20 leads a day."
Yeah. And so they just put in 20 crap leads- Yeah ... to tick a KPI- Yes ... uh, figure, as opposed to the quality of the leads that are- Yes ... coming through. So when we can get the sales and marketing team dovetailing in together, that just makes our job so much easier. Awesome. So it's really critical for us that we have that, that alignment.
The one other thing that's interesting is that if we look at how humans buy, there's, there's, there's lots of different filters and, and ways you can look at it. But one we like to look at is, um, it is either avoiding pain or moving towards a gain. So what we do find is when we start looking at websites and marketing collateral, generally, unless the marketing person has been trained to-
understand the difference, they will market and put all of their copy and all of their wording in their buying style. Mm. So if they're away from pain, like the consequences, the, you know, what's the disadvantage of, the marketing material will tend to be all that way. And if they're all, if they're all, if they're trying to be, you know, towards pleasure or towards, you know, a, a, a positive- Yeah
emotion, the marketing will be more that way. And so what we find is that once we help them to understand that there's 60% of the population's away from pain, 40 t- percent is towards gain, and you need to have a healthy mix of both in your marketing. Because otherwise you're, you're cutting out half the population- Yes
and you're not speaking their language.
Love that. So I always talk about, you know, pain, but also aspiration. Yes. A lot of people forget about the whole aspiration part of it. Um, for me, I also talk about, um, having done work with To- Tony Robbins, I also talk about DIS personality profiling. Yeah. You know how Tony every two minutes talks to a different personality profile in the DIS personality?
So if you haven't, check it out. I've done a blog on, it's called Call to Actions, and it's the language that you use on the buttons, the call to action buttons, and also in your call to action phrases, that changes whether or not- Yeah ... you're talking to a D, I, C or S. Absolutely. So, so, so, so important, so thank you so much for that.
So one more point before we end this, because we have to bring this up, right? We spoke about how people are craving connection right now, and I think that's a great opportunity for people right now to sell. Yep. I think it's great. If you do it right, and you're not about the money, but you're about serving and, and, you know, um, fixing people's problems, I think we're at a great, we have a great opportunity right now.
But a lot of people are going to quick fixes like AI, all right? It's a massive thing right now, and I get people... In fact, two days ago someone said to me, "Chantal, maybe you should, like, look for another job or try another angle because AI's gonna take your job." And I went, "Hell no, it's not." We are finding right now that AI is causing procrastination and overwhelm incredibly in businesses.
It is actually stopping people more than it is actually giving people a head start because they're literally going down vortexes of creating, creating, creating, creating. They can't make a decision on something, they're getting overwhelmed, they're not actually implementing, um, and, and they're getting lost.
They're not using critical thinking anymore, right? So I'm not worried about my job, which is a good thing. Yeah. But when it comes to AI and selling, everyone right now is, "We're gonna put bots in there. You know, who's gonna..." A- and I believe there's a place for bots, right? There's a s- at the end of the day, it's kinda like your Contact Us form.
They can answer some questions. I think that's great. Close the cycle. You know, we can train them. That's great. That's where I like it. But I'm a little bit concerned about some of the other stuff that's happening right now. Mm. For myself even, I took up indoor skydiving last year, and I called somebody, and literally they sounded like a bot.
And I went, "Are you a bot?" "Are you a bot or a human?" And they're like, "This is a human." I went, "Good." Said, "We can have a conversation."
Yeah.
So what are you seeing when it comes to sales and AI, and everybody rushing out for, I believe, a supposed quick fix?
Yeah. So- Or a
Band-Aid on their sales thing that's broken
we, we're very early adopters in that space, so conversational intelligence around analyzing phone calls and videos- Yep ... we've been doing that since 2018.
To me, that's automation. Right. Like, we've been doing automation and data. Yeah. Yep.
Yep. So we were one of the... We were the first, first distributor in Australia doing conversation intelligence back in 2018.
And still to this day, that con- that is not quite where it needs to be. It is helpful. It gives good- Mm ... some good insights, and we can actually train, um, a, we can train those bots or those, you know, AI technology to be able to look at have they followed the sales process that we've, we've, we've given, and give them some feedback.
The one thing that we still find is a major problem, and it is causing more trouble than it is giving value in most organizations, is there's no EQ.
Mm.
So it doesn't have any emotional intelligence to be able to, you know, filter or buffer the feedback. So it'll say, "Hey, Chantal. That was crap." "You did this wrong, you did this wrong, you did this wrong, you did this wrong, you did this wrong."
And then that person walks away feeling deflated, and, um, the, the, it affects their self-esteem, and it affects their ability to have the confidence to keep having great conversations on the phone. So, you know, a big part of what we do when we're working with managers is actually teach them how to coach.
So rather than telling people what they're doing wrong- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... and focusing on all the stuff that's incorrect, you've gotta have a healthy mix of telling them all the stuff that they're doing really well, and then asking permission to give them some really good feedback around what they could do better.
So there's a golden ratio around feedback, which is, uh, most people go, "Oh, crap, I do it the other way around."
Yeah
Is that for every one thing that you wanna coach someone on to get better at, you've got to give them five positive things.
Oh my gosh, I'll need to step up my game. Right?
So- I'm
probably doing about two or three
so, you know, Chantal, you're doing a fantastic job with- ... um, with the stuff that you're doing on, uh, Facebook. I'm really loving what you're doing- ... on the Instagram reels. Um, I, I really enjoy when I'm watching the stuff- Oh, my gosh ... that you're doing. Um, can I give you some feedback about one thing I've noticed?
And if you think about the human brain and how we're wired, if we've just had someone tell us four really great- ... or five really great things about what, what, what we liked about that- We can take a little
knock
You can take a little knock. But if I was to come around and say, "Uh, yeah, look, some things you're doing pretty well, but you're doing this wrong, and this wrong, and this wrong"- Yeah
where does your brain go straight to straight away?
Oh, I feel you completely. Um, as I said, I'm doing this indoor skydiving thing at the moment, right? And, um, I'm trying to- I've got a coach that I see every month, and I haven't been able to s- find the right coach. And, and the reason is, is because every time I get into the tunnel, and it's very expensive, and you're in there for a very short amount of time, the instructors get so disappointed in me.
They, their disappointment in my... in the, in the fact that I don't have a natural ability. I can see their disappointment. Yeah. And they can't talk to you. So if you watch, if you go to Instagram, you'll see, but they use hand language. Like, for those of you watching on YouTube, you'll see. Like, they use hand language and whatever, sign language, 'cause they can't, like, they can't talk to you, so they're mouthing, and they're doing this, and they've got a helmet on, and you just feel so deflated.
And, and then your, your one and a half minutes is up, and you're out the tunnel, and I've done nothing. So, like, I think there's only, like, one or two instructors that I go, "Oh, those are the only two instructors I'll go to," because I get a couple of thumbs ups, and that doesn't deflate me, and it keeps me going.
Yeah. So I love that you said that. I had to sneak in my story.
Yeah, I love it. I love
it. So thank you so much. Um, so how can people connect with you? I mean, for you, you work in the B2B space. Yeah. We're talking about national sales teams. If you've got five or, or more people and you want to invest in your team, um, to get the structure and this process right, and it should be an ongoing thing.
For me, I do sales training every single year. It's something that I'm... wasn't good at, hated doing, said not good at, hate doing, need to do.
Yep.
So I do it every year. So how can people connect with you?
Look, um, they could find me on, um, probably LinkedIn is probably the easiest way to find me. Just, um, Greg Laban for sales and leadership performance.
Um, or they could visit our website for, uh, it's just, um, saleslp.com. Um, probably the two easiest ways to get in touch. Um, yeah, it's, um, we're, we're, uh, we're pretty easy to find.
Awesome. Um, and you're offering a sales growth health check for everyone?
We are. So for any of your, uh, lovely viewers- ... we're, we're giving, giving...
happy to give them a complimentary sales, uh, growth health check. Um, so it's a little bit of a questionnaire and then a session with me just to have a look at where are you strong, where are some little gaps that you might need some tweaking in, what might need a rebuild.
Yeah. And don't worry, he's gonna give you five positive things first.
No, I'll give you five positive things before I give you the negative feedback. But no, look, it's, it, it's all about just trying to work out where you are on that, on that sales growth journey, and everyone will be in a different spot.
Yeah.
And what we don't wanna see is people throwing money at the wall.
Yes.
So, um, I hate the one day wonder. Um, you know, I can- Yeah ... go to a one day course and everything's gonna be fixed your problems. Yeah. It takes three months to, to turn around a sales team. Whether it's an individual or a large corporate team, we don't start to see any significant behavioral change for three months.
Wow. So just make sure that, you know, as a business owner, that you're aware, uh- ... if you're doing it yourself, it's gonna take longer than three months.
Yeah. '
Cause I, I'd, I'd care to say that most business owners are not great sales coaches.
Yeah. And they're so busy. They're busy stuck in- Yeah ... doing what they're doing and stuck in their own head and their own old ways of doing things.
I completely get that. Yeah, and it's the same, you know, same with the marketing, not gonna harp on about that, but same with the marketing. People just want quick fixes, and I'm like, "There isn't such a thing." There's
no such thing.
No such thing. I do not have
a magic wand.
No. No ma- And you know what? And you've got to get the fundamentals right.
You can't just- Yeah ... go in and Band-Aid it and duct tape it. I'm sorry, but some people will take your money. Some people will take your money, and they'll promise you quick fixes. They'll duct tape everything, give you a new tactic, a new trend. It is not gonna move the needle, and you're gonna be back...
You're actually gonna be in a worse position- Yeah ... than you were beforehand. Cool bananas. So thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure having you here today. Thank you. Um, and obviously everything's in the show notes below, so check out the website link there and jump on that, um, sales growth health check.
That'll be amazing. Uh, this has been another episode of the Meaningful Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Chantal Gerardy. If you'd like to connect with us, you can connect with us on onlin businessmarketing.com.au, um, where you can also connect to the YouTube channel and view us there. If you haven't already, please make sure to subscribe, like, comment, um, or even send me a private message on Facebook and let me know what you like, what you didn't like, um, but give me five things you did like first.
Uh, thanks so much for joining us. See ya.
See ya.
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