Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Long Game: A Heated Rivalry Podcast is a re-watch and deep-dive podcast dedicated to Heated Rivalry, hosted by Declan and Silvan. In each episode, we revisit key moments across the series, unpacking the slow-burn tension, character development, and emotional beats that make the heated rivalry world so compelling. Through thoughtful discussion, close reading, and a fan-informed lens, we explore themes of competition, intimacy, identity, and growth over time, celebrating not just the heat of the rivalry, but the long game it takes to truly understand these characters and their relationship.
New episodes published every Sunday
Silvan (00:00)
Hi everyone. Welcome to Long Game, a heated rivalry podcast. My name is Sylvan, and I'm of course joined by Declan. Now, this week we have a very special conversation planned for you. We've got director Caroline Plyler joining us to talk about her film next door.
So thank you so much for for joining us, Caroline.
Caroline Plyler (00:21)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm literally so excited.
Silvan (00:25)
And we are
too. Your film, how we found it, was through TikTok. It literally came up on my FYP and I legit was obsessed. I was scrolling through looking for the next episode. And Candy Jar will only release an episode every other day or so often. And we had to wait patiently for the next one. So legit I was obsessed.
Caroline Plyler (00:51)
so excited and that's very exciting that you found it through TikTok and social media ⁓ because that's how we market things and I'm so glad that our marketing got to the correct audience.
Silvan (01:03)
You found the guys, Caroline?
Declan (01:04)
Yeah.
Caroline Plyler (01:06)
Amazing. That's always who I'm looking for, right?
Declan (01:13)
Yeah, my for you page was doing its work for me that day. Because I didn't even like I wasn't aware that someone reached out to you and then when he says, ⁓ it's this next door, this this film that I've been watching on my TikToks, I'm like, my god, no, I've been watching it on my TikTok now and just from there I was like, Okay, yeah yeah, this needs to happen.
Caroline Plyler (01:17)
Amazing. ⁓
Amazing. Amazing. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. 'Cause this is also Candy Jar's first queer show that they put out. So, you know, we didn't really have a fan base or anything for that yet. So it's I'm so glad that it found the right people.
Declan (01:45)
Amazing.
Silvan (01:51)
trust me,
the fans are out there. and not even the people consuming the the film itself, but the reactions to the films are getting like thousands and thousands of hits.
Caroline Plyler (01:54)
Yes.
Yeah, it's kind of amazing. It's incredible. I mean, I got also got lucky with like the cutest actors ever who like really put their all into it and really made you believe like the story that they were telling. So I'm so lucky, so grateful for Nick and Justin and Sophia and ⁓ Bella and Nick with a K.
Silvan (02:29)
And I do want to
ask you more about the casting in a bit, but to start us off, I just want to ask like what's what does it feel like now that Nextdoor is out there in the world?
Caroline Plyler (02:41)
It feels amazing. I mean I didn't know if it was going to do well or flop and just the feedback that I've been getting about it has been
Incredible, like so overwhelming, so incredible. I'm so grateful. ⁓ especially because this is the first thing that I've ever directed. And the fact that I was able to make something that connected and resonated with so many people is like that's the reason why I want to tell stories. So it I it's my my heart is so full. I'm so grateful.
Silvan (03:18)
Yeah, and I know you mentioned this is your directorial debut and you would not have known that watching the movie. Like I would have just thought it would have been someone who's quite seasoned.
Caroline Plyler (03:26)
Amazing.
That's amazing. I mean, I have for the past three years been following around incredible directors as their script supervisor. So I've learned a whole lot ⁓ just being behind the camera and watching what other people do. ⁓ so I'm really grateful that all that hard work has paid off.
Silvan (03:51)
Yeah, and we learn so much from watching other people who have really honed in on their craft, right?
Caroline Plyler (03:59)
Yeah, absolutely. For me, it's the best way to learn. ⁓ I'm definitely the kind of person that likes to watch and then I want to do it. ⁓ so works super well for me.
Declan (04:13)
Yeah, what was there any reason in particular that you chose this sort of story, like this sort of like a scope of an MM romance instead of, you know, something that they've they've previously made before?
Caroline Plyler (04:25)
Yeah. well they came to me with this story and asked if I would be interested in making it. And I was beyond to be able to make a queer story. ⁓ I've been ⁓ I'm a bisexual person and I've always had
⁓ my closest friends in the queer community and I think it's ⁓ you know it's a like a very important group to me and I felt like I could authentically tell this story because I was a bisexual girl in high school that had a crush on my best friend. So I was like I understand deeply what's happening here and ⁓
You know, so it as soon as they th I heard that this was the story, I was like, I resonate and feel like I could ⁓ earnestly tell this. ⁓ yeah.
Silvan (05:24)
So were you a kit or a river?
Caroline Plyler (05:28)
⁓ I I was definitely a kit, but only in sexuality ways like river. Yeah, but definitely a kit. I was definitely a yearner for somebody that maybe didn't want me back. My story did not have a happy ending, unlike kids.
Silvan (05:37)
Yeah.
And I think you found the right
audience who are looking for that yearning. But for anyone who is listening and isn't familiar with Next Door, how would you describe the the movie to them?
Caroline Plyler (06:01)
I would describe it as ⁓ a young adult ⁓ high school love story.
Declan (06:07)
There's actually not there's surprisingly not a lot of like young adult queer films and TV shows. There's a few of like really big famous ones. So you would have like Heartstopper and you would have ⁓ was it Love I think it's a Love Victor, but there was also Fallen of Simon. But yeah, but in terms of like how you guys approached this one.
Caroline Plyler (06:09)
Yeah, queer.
Silvan (06:29)
Love Simon.
Caroline Plyler (06:31)
Yeah.
Declan (06:37)
⁓ I felt like it was falling a hole for something that is not sort of typically done a lot. And when it is done, if it's done well, it can rise to popularity really, really well. And so I'm glad it showed up my for you page because I got a lot of enjoyment out of it. And it feels like the kind of story that is very accessible to a young person who would be on TikTok scrolling and for you page and doing that and that and that and allowing them access to a story like that so easily.
is I think s it's filling a sort of hole that needs to be filled, I think.
Caroline Plyler (07:13)
That's so good. ⁓ that's ⁓ that was like a big part of what I was thinking about when I was making this. Of like my kind of thought was I want this to feel like a queer Disney Channel original that we never got, but like so deeply wanted, you know. ⁓ being a kid into the two thousands, you don't see
st love stories like that. So, you know, especially myself when I was a kid, I didn't know really what even bisexuality was or that like it was okay for me to like somebody of the same gender.
⁓ so seeing something like next door when I was a kid probably would have helped a lot of those confusing thoughts of like, is this normal? Is this okay? ⁓ because it is and I'm really thankful that I got to
⁓ relive a bit of my childhood and ⁓ you know hopefully show something to kids ⁓ show something to young people that they hadn't seen before to feel you know more included
Declan (08:20)
Mm. So in a way that did you find it was a bit healing for you to be able to make that story?
Caroline Plyler (08:25)
Yeah, absolutely. I even talked about it with my actors in the beginning where I was like, Nick, I'm kind of Nick who plays kit. I was like, Nick, I'm kind of going to resonate a lot with you. And Justin, I am so sorry I might beat up on you just a little tiny bit. ⁓ Justin is also a cancer and ⁓
I'm a Taurus and I have an ex who's a cancer. So there was there's like there were some things going on there for sure, which he totally knew about. We joked all about. But yeah, ⁓ this was definitely ⁓ personal to me. Absolutely.
Silvan (09:05)
Yeah, and that definitely comes across because I know you shared some behind the scenes footage on on your TikTok, and you can see how well the cast just really gelled together. Like you just genuinely looked like you were having fun.
Caroline Plyler (09:19)
We were having the best time. It was it was also a lot of our first times. It was ⁓ Justin's first time leading a movie ⁓ for Candy Jar. It was ⁓ Nick's first time, you know, doing something larger than a small short film. ⁓ Sophia ⁓ Sophie and Bella and Nick are seasoned professionals, but it was very cool for all of us ⁓ because we all also
At the end of the day, this was all of our first times being on a queer story like this. So it's very exciting.
Silvan (09:57)
Yeah, and I love that you talk about it feeling like a wholesome Disney Channel movie because that's the vibe I got. I got this can be watched by anyone and it would be so lovely to be able to watch this perhaps like as a parent with a child even, just to initiate some of that conversation in a really safe, wholesome way.
Caroline Plyler (10:20)
Yeah, absolutely. And to normalize loving anybody is just fine, you know? ⁓ and I I wanted it to feel safe and approachable and you know, especially because some of the bullying in there can I wanted to kind of figure out how to make that more digestible. and just
Make something easy and digestible for people to watch.
Declan (10:50)
Yeah, I think that's a really good idea as well. ⁓ I find and I've discussed this with Sylvan in the past, that a lot of like queer media tends to like go to the dark side of ⁓ the experience and what gay people go through, a lot of the traumas and and sort of mental health struggles, which is absolutely fine. There is definitely a place for those stories to be told and they deserve to be told, but
I think you get to miss out on the sort of fun and light hearted side of things. ⁓ whenever you're overly focusing on the sort of negative aspects of it. ⁓ so I can appreciate creating, you know, more media that is more diverse in terms of like queer representation so that people like young adults and like kids can dip into a story and not feel like everything
surrounding them is just this big dark thing and it's just this really messy, scary thing. But it can also be this really light, lovely thing that can be really fun. ⁓ so yeah, I'm glad that there's more stories being created to have like a a wider sort of spectrum of where they fall in the queer experience. I think that's it's really nice.
Caroline Plyler (12:03)
Yeah, absolutely. I ⁓ 100% felt that way when I was making this of just the excitement of being able to
move past the traumas, ⁓ and make something fun and easy and frankly kind of normal. You know, we see these stories all the time between straight white people all the time. And to have a different mix in there.
⁓ that this is these kind of love stories are allowed to happen for anyone. It's not just for straight white people, ⁓ was very important as well.
Silvan (12:46)
Yeah,
because as as important as something like Broke Back Mountain is, we need a bit more queer high school musical. I mean you can argue high school music is a little queer anyway, because I mean, let's be honest. Like, we were all brought up on high school musical, right?
Caroline Plyler (12:57)
One hundred percent.
Declan (12:58)
Mm. ⁓
Caroline Plyler (13:02)
One hundred percent, one hundred percent.
Silvan (13:05)
We need those queer characters to fall in love.
Declan (13:06)
Thank you.
Caroline Plyler (13:10)
Yeah, absolutely. What's so funny that you brought up high school musical is I based ⁓ Carrie and ⁓ Darius off of Sharpay and ⁓ what was his name? I forget his name. ⁓ Ryan, Ryan and Sharpay.
Declan (13:22)
Ryan. Yeah, yeah. I actually
like that idea as well because ⁓ the guy, the actor who played Ryan, ⁓ came out later ⁓ and said that he was definitely playing Ryan as a queer character, as this sort of closeted guy, this flamboyant big guy. ⁓ because obviously Dudley did not want to do anything overt at that time. Like this was like mid
Caroline Plyler (13:46)
Yeah.
Declan (13:52)
to early two thousands. ⁓ but he deliberately played Ryan like very camp just so that there was just the the hint of a bit of queer representation in there. I thought that was so fun.
Caroline Plyler (14:04)
⁓ I love that. I'm obsessed with that. That's also kind of ⁓ the the notes that I gave to Nick who was playing ⁓ Darius of like, I kind of want you to deliver your lines because he's the one who had to say most of the bullying lines. And I was like, You kind of talk like an old drag queen. I don't know, so maybe try and deliver them like this. And then I gave him the chapstick so he had like something to do.
⁓ anyway, so that was it was very fun to kind of make his character like Ryan ⁓ in high school musical of like very flamboyant but like covered up under all of this like big jock exterior, ⁓ which I also think is a very funny and kind of stereotypical trope as well. ⁓ so yeah, that was that was fun.
Silvan (14:58)
Yeah,
and Sharpe in itself, I mean, she is a gay icon anyway. I mean right. I mean, I wanted to ask w what's the audience reaction been like and has anything surprised you from who's been reaching out to you or who's been consuming the the movie?
Caroline Plyler (15:04)
My God, the best.
Declan (15:06)
Okay.
Caroline Plyler (15:19)
so the response has been amazing. There's been a lot of ⁓ younger people that I've noticed ⁓ that
really resonate with the story and have started following me and want, you know, more of next door, which I'm very excited about. I I I think it's more
just overwhelming than anything because you know you make something and you put it out there and you know that like I think this is actually good but you don't know if other people are really going to connect with it and think that it's good or you know resonate and to have this like overwhelming
feedback of just like joy and happiness and ⁓ thankfulness to have a story like this has been just it's overwhelming is really the only word that comes to mind and just so much gratitude. It's amazing.
Silvan (16:30)
Yeah, I can imagine the amount of DMs you must be getting and tags. Like I was just thankful that you answered one of my DMs and you were so sweet about it when we approached you to do this podcast. ⁓ I wanna ask have you always wanted to go 'cause when I looked up your resume on IMDB, you've done a lot. And like, you know, you've you've been an actor yourself, you you're a script supervisor, and now you're a director. I mean
And and the people that you've worked with, like I was going through the cost credits on some of the movies you worked on. Like you had Marissa Tomay in one of the movies you worked in, and I was like, Holy shit. That's that's huge. And so I'm wondering, like, did you always want to go into directing, or is that something that sort of came about later?
Caroline Plyler (17:09)
Okay.
Yeah.
Well ⁓ I wanted to be an actor originally and so that's where I started out. ⁓ and then after getting ⁓ quite a few acting credits, I kind of felt like this wasn't fulfilling me storytelling-wise like I thought that it would.
I've always been a writer. So it kind of made sense to get into directing because especially as an actor, that's kind of where I got to learn all of these other positions behind the camera. And seeing what a director does, ⁓ I was like, ⁓ that's kind of what I want to be doing. I kind of want to be the one.
with the vision and ⁓ you know working with everyone to create something. So ⁓ I was given the incredible advice to become a script supervisor to learn how to direct. I didn't go to film school or anything. So getting the advice to learn ⁓ how to direct by taking a job behind the camera and a job not only behind the camera, but a job directly next
to the director ⁓ was just incredible advice. And ⁓ yeah, so because of acting, I found directing. ⁓ And then through directing I found script supervision. So it's kind of cool.
Silvan (18:52)
Yeah, and we see this journey with some actors in Hollywood who have sort of gone more into the directing side, you know, like Bradley Cooper comes to mind, and there are so many others that are producing like Margot Robbie and things like that. And it feels like a really natural progression for some of the actors to to go down, just like yourself.
Caroline Plyler (19:12)
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ I think that, well, definitely, all actors are storytellers, and so inherently we want to tell as many stories as we possibly can. and you can only do so much as an actor, but you can do even more if you start to wear more hats, like directing or producing. ⁓ so it definitely feels like a natural progression.
Declan (19:41)
Yeah. Do you like which aspect of it do you prefer? More the sort of writing side of it or the actually being there and directing the actors and sort of putting your vision directly in front of you? Or is it more like you enjoy the build up, the creation of the story and how it's gonna unfold in your head?
Caroline Plyler (20:01)
Yeah, I think ⁓
Honestly, the prep is so much fun because you feel like you have the space and time to kind of flesh everything out. You get to talk to your department heads and your actors about, you know, character, how you see them looking, how you see the spaces that they're in looking. And by setting yourself up so well with prep, you're able to, once you get on set, just kind of let things go.
⁓ and let it be how it's going to be, which is amazing because it's such a whirlwind what you're on set. There's so many emotions going on within yourself. You're not sleeping because you're so wrapped up in this thing that you're making. It's like a bit of a manic episode. ⁓ so the prep is super nice. ⁓ and if you're
prepped well enough you're going to be able to go on set and just kind of let people do their thing, which is such a magical thing to witness as a director. ⁓ and I felt so lucky that on next door we had prepped in such a
you know, thorough way that once we got there, we all just kind of got to play around and have fun, which I think you can really tell in the movie that everything feels easy and lighthearted. Even if we're like punching somebody in the face, it's still we're having fun.
Silvan (21:37)
And you talked about sort of doing that prep work. I wonder, as an actor, were you able to sort of ⁓ identify with your fellow actors that you were directing in a way that maybe a director who hadn't acted might have done?
Caroline Plyler (21:54)
Maybe so. ⁓ I had a incredible acting coach named Anthony Abison in New York who gave me all of the language that I have now to be able to speak to actors to kind of pull a performance out of them that I would like. ⁓ I think it's very important to you ⁓ know.
Collaborate with your actors and hear what they want, and also you tell them what you want. ⁓ and I think definitely having a background in acting helps me to be able to talk and connect a bit easier. Absolutely. Because I'm able to put myself in their shoes and think about if I was trying to do this as an actor, what would I be thinking of?
Or where would I be pulling my motivation from? Or ⁓ what's a little, you know, thought that I can plant in their head so that way these emotions can grow from it.
Silvan (23:02)
feel like this is Declan's like domain. Like Declan studied film and movie studies. ⁓ so like y I feel like your this is like your expertise.
Caroline Plyler (23:14)
Amazing. What did you
Declan (23:14)
Yeah, like
I studied film studies and film production. ⁓ so it was like a like a college degree, ⁓ university degree. I did it for three years. I was working on some projects and I just realized that the lifestyle, the sort of constant self employment, like it just wasn't for me. And at the time I couldn't even drive, so I was having to show up.
Caroline Plyler (23:20)
Okay.
Declan (23:43)
to sets at five in the morning when I had no real way of getting there. And it just it the whole thing just didn't really work. But one aspect of it that I really, really loved was the writing side of it. I loved script writing. I really, really enjoyed it. And a lot of the time I would fall into the sort of when it came to my own projects, like the script writing or directing role. ⁓ which now that I'm looking back
I think it was more wanting to see your vision come to fruition and see it done justice and how you imagine it in your head. ⁓ obviously as a student you're really limited in how like effective you can be at that. Because obviously you don't have the expertise and you don't quite have the experience yet to get like performances out of people in the right way or to ⁓ you know, have lighting and a set done and sound done in a way that you feel is like really professional and crisp. So
Caroline Plyler (24:30)
Right.
Declan (24:43)
It's a it's really difficult as a student to try to make your vision come to reality. So when you're script writing, you don't really need to worry about that because the quality can be as good as you want it to be. ⁓ because there is no greater production. There is just you and the computer and your ideas and how well you're communicating them on the page. ⁓ and then you hand it over to someone who is much better at ⁓ making it a reality, like yourself.
Silvan (25:10)
And Caroline, you mentioned about being a script supervisor. For anyone who's sort of not familiar with what that was, and that includes me for for a long time, what would you say that involves or how does that work come about?
Caroline Plyler (25:24)
this is how I like to describe it.
you're basically the onset editor. So you sit next to the director, you tell them if there's a continuity error, like instead of picking up your drink with your camera right hand, you picked it up with your camera left hand. Now that's not necessarily going to cut because your drink is now in the wrong hand. and I also will help with matching shots. ⁓ so that way when you're in the edit,
the back and forths and the conversations will cut together seamlessly. ⁓ Definitely ⁓ tracking the the lines and the script is also a very important part of my job because you want to make sure that the actors say the lines exactly as written because they were written that way for a reason.
⁓ and also tracking ⁓ alt lines, like if they say something a little differently. ⁓ you are the queen of continuity.
Silvan (26:26)
I mean,
Declan (26:27)
Perfect.
Silvan (26:27)
it sounds like a big job because those are the things that people watching the shows and the movies are going to pick up so instantly when they have something like that go wrong, right?
Caroline Plyler (26:40)
Yes, it's ⁓ it definitely takes you out of the fantasy of just being thrown into a story because you're like, ⁓ I see that error. but you sometimes they're forgivable and you don't notice them, which is a very good thing because you can't get everything.
Silvan (26:57)
I think one thing that comes to mind is I don't know if you watched Game of Thrones, Caroline, but I think in the la Right
Caroline Plyler (27:03)
The infamous coffee cup.
Declan (27:06)
Coffee cup. ⁓
Caroline Plyler (27:07)
Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Absolutely crazy. ⁓
Declan (27:12)
Don't know how no one noticed that.
Caroline Plyler (27:15)
Yeah, ⁓ I heard through the grapevine that the ⁓ the distribution got the wrong version of the the cut. I don't know if this is true or not, but this was the hearsay. And that the coffee cup they shot the rehearsal and that was the rehearsal and the coffee cup that's why the coffee cup was there.
But who knows? It shouldn't have been there anyway if you're rolling the camera. So somebody made a mistake. You're so correct. Absolutely not.
Declan (27:39)
Yeah.
Silvan (27:44)
I feel like it wouldn't have happened if you were on set, Caroline.
Declan (27:52)
It's sounds like it's a lot of like attention to detail and knowing when like how do you usually approach the like the director and go, You're kind of doing that wrong or that's not quite right? Like is there like a a bit of an awkwardness at first about like trying to like kind of confront the fact that they're messing up a little bit?
Caroline Plyler (28:14)
Yeah, it's definitely very difficult to go to arguably one of the most important people on set and also your boss, frankly. ⁓ and to tell them you're wrong and we need to do that again. ⁓ so you definitely figure out how to say it respectfully ⁓ and also as concise as possible and with a fix.
⁓ so that way because time is so expensive on set. ⁓ so the quicker ⁓ and more efficient that you can do things and to take the emotion out of the situation, the better. ⁓ so I ⁓ but also script supervisors tend to kind of follow directors, ⁓ like
A lot of the script supervisors that I learned under, they always work with these same directors over and over and over again because you kind of get this shorthand with one another and you learn what's important to the director and what's not as important. Because obviously if everything was important, you would have
a litany of notes that you would never you'd never finish the movie. So ⁓ learning kind of what the director's taste is, ⁓
And also how to get your point across and making sure that you two actually vibe. ⁓ because ⁓ kind of an unspoken job of a script supervisor is to keep the director calm in between setups because everybody is worried about time and making their day, and so you know, just
Declan (29:53)
What
Caroline Plyler (30:00)
keeping the conversation going, maybe going for a walk to get a coffee while we're waiting for this light to get set up. ⁓ yeah, they're they're ⁓ they in so many ways become your best friend on set. And a lot of the directors that I script supervise for are people who I would consider very close friends.
⁓ now. Sometimes people, you know, sometimes I don't mesh with people and they don't mesh with me and we're maybe not the best people to work with one another since it is such a close knit job. But ⁓
Definitely. Once you find the correct fit, ⁓ being script supervisor and director, it's like it really is like best friends because then you can just go up and immediately tell somebody, hey, what was that? We need to fix that. ⁓ and know that there's no like ego or ⁓ you know, being put down that everything is done with respect with a little bit of humor, you know.
Declan (31:01)
Yeah.
Silvan (31:05)
Yeah,
and in a way what you were talking about the the speed in which you have to work on set and the prep that you do beforehand reminds me of this interview with Jacob Tierney, so the creator of Heated Rivalry, of course, and he was talking about how much time he spends doing all that kind of prep and you know, having the conversations with everyone on the crew and the actors about what they're doing and why they're doing it, but not necessarily having that conversation the day of the shoot because time is money.
Caroline Plyler (31:36)
Absolutely. ⁓ and also when you're already there and you're about to shoot it, like it's kind of too late at that point if you haven't gotten it already figured out. Now that's not to say that when you're there and filming the scene, that you don't find things that you didn't expect. That's kind of the whole point. Is like now we're all here with the sets and the costumes and all the actors, and so we really can play and find different beats that we may have not thought.
of while we were in rehearsal. Yeah, it's again, it's why prep is like the most important part of making any sort of narrative piece, in my opinion.
Declan (32:20)
Yeah, I I'm actually hearing a lot recently from like interviews with different actors talking about this. ⁓ like the most recent that comes to mind is Tom Holland. He was talking about the difference between working with st Christopher Nolan on the Odyssey. And apparently he is very precise, he's very organized. And when you arrive on set, there is a pre planned thing of what's gonna happen and it's gonna happen.
But he was comparing it to the experience he has when making like the Spider Man films and the Marvel ones, which there's almost like a relaxed go approach to like we'll figure out what we're shooting whenever you show up on set. Because they're obviously working CGI sets, they think that they can just, you know, make whatever story needs to happen happen. but apparently he sort of just put his foot down now with that. It's like, no, like if you want me to be the on set, you need to have something ready for me to go and I know what's gonna happen.
Caroline Plyler (33:04)
Sure.
Declan (33:15)
and I think another big example of that as well was The Hobbit. ⁓ I don't know if you're a Lord of the Rings fan. ⁓ like I was a huge fan of learning about how the production worked on the original trilogy. ⁓ like it was really inspirational for me for like pursuing ⁓ that sort of education in film and TV. ⁓ but the crew talked about the differences between filming the Hobbit.
Caroline Plyler (33:16)
Mm-hmm.
Love a Lord alert.
Declan (33:45)
And filming The Lord of Rings, where with the Lord of Rings, they had all this prep time and they had all the time in the world to make their production basically run as smoothly as possible. But then with The Hobbit, it was the opposite experience. Peter Jackson was not supposed to be the like leading director of that that film series. It was actually supposed to be Gil Gatel, I can't remember his name. ⁓ yes.
Caroline Plyler (34:11)
Yeah, my daughter.
Declan (34:14)
Exactly, yes, him. He was originally the one that was supposed to direct the project, but for whatever reason he pulled out then quite last minute. And so basically the crew was left with like weeks of pre production for a huge series of films that had to be had to be created. ⁓ and you can tell there's a difference in quality, definitely. So yeah, the idea that pre planning huge works like this here is vital is yeah, it
Hundred percent makes sense.
Caroline Plyler (34:47)
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ because again, once you get on set, you want to be able to play and have fun. You don't want to be thinking of, ⁓ I didn't even tell the costume designer like what I want this person to wear. Like you you just don't have time to think about stuff like that. and if you haven't done something like that, it really starts to show in the work because instead of doing things that
Could have prepared you for on the day to just literally be at set, literally, you know, be in the space, staring at your monitor, thinking about how you want the scene to go, deciding if you like the set deck. Like you're just not gonna have the time. And I don't think that that's
You know, especially to the actors, very fair because they have to like on a dime be able to come onto set, those cameras start rolling, and they kind of have to get it perfectly because there is no time. ⁓ so ⁓ out of respect for every crew member, ⁓ being as prepared as possible is definitely ⁓ the place where I want to be when I'm making something. Absolutely.
Silvan (36:06)
And speaking of directors, you know.
You've worked with some amazing directors as a script supervisor, you know, with Mark Gant on Fuck Valentine's Day and Maria Marituba on America, which was a short with MM themes. I'm wondering was there a a ⁓ style of direction that you were sort of, you know, attracted to?
Caroline Plyler (36:29)
Yes, so the style of directing that I've been super attracted to ⁓ is you can always tell the people that really, really know what they want. because some directors kind of like to find it, and I think that that's great. I'm a very type A personality, clearly, as a script supervisor. ⁓ so
Watching the directors who were like very clear about they what they want and their vision and very concise with explaining how they want it to happen, ⁓ really appealed to me. ⁓ versus ⁓ you know, kind of trying to find ⁓ the scene or whatever it may be. ⁓ yeah, I
I just recently got to work with an incredible ⁓ director and director of photography. His name is Ben Richardson. He shoots for a lot of the Taylor Sheridan shows. ⁓ and we did a commercial together, and he it's like one of the most amazing things to see because he started out as a director of photography and has moved on to directing. So his ability to like know where
the camera should be, all the different cameras should be, how the scene should work out. And just his like concise and easy delivery of all of that was like wow, like so inspiring and so great to be able to work with.
Declan (38:06)
do you have any like inspirations from like like directors, any particular films or media that just really spoke to you or maybe give you a bit of inspiration in in how you want to sort of take your career?
Caroline Plyler (38:20)
Yeah, ⁓ Sophia Coppola is definitely one of my favorite directors. I I feel like that's pretty obvious in my work. but I Lost in Translation is one of my most favorite movies ever. ⁓
And in fact, I just did this like really crazy thing. It's not that crazy, whatever. But ⁓ you know, ⁓ her is ⁓ Spike Jones's response to Lost in Translation. So I just recently watched those back to back and it completely changed the meaning of her to me, and that was so cool.
⁓ so I I really am inspired by directors who take their stories and take them to a personal place, ⁓ which is something like what Sophia Coppola does.
Silvan (39:12)
my god, such
a good choice. I loved Marie Antoinette.
Caroline Plyler (39:16)
Yes, so fun.
Silvan (39:18)
So
so fun, so right. Can I ask about Nextdoor? Because I have a hundred questions about this. So I know you talked about sort of candy jar approaching you for the project. I wonder if you can tell us a little bit more about sort of how that came about and and yeah, what happened there.
Caroline Plyler (39:26)
Yeah, let's get into it.
Yeah, so I have been working for Candy Jar as a script supervisor and their script coordinator for the past three years. ⁓ almost three and maybe three and a half years now, which is so crazy. ⁓ I made their first vertical with them and ⁓ with Ryan, ⁓ who is the director, who is now the head of direction at Candy Jar.
and Matt Burke, who is the DP and is still a DP for Candy Jar. So basically, we've all just been working together for the past three and a half years. This like group of us. Candy Jar has definitely grown, and there's a lot more of us now. ⁓ but it's been such an amazing job and like a great way to
⁓ really hone my craft. ⁓ since you know, you start out in this industry and you like kind of don't really know what you're doing. And to be able to you know work on such a high volume of movies, ⁓ because I think
I f I stopped counting at one point, but I've made probably about 40 of these candy jar movies. ⁓ they're not on my IMDV. So then those 26, I think, other movies plus like these 40 some odd movies. So in like four years, I've made over 60 productions, which is amazing. Just like the best learning experience I could ever ask for.
⁓ and because I've been with this company for so long, everybody's become friends, like very close and dear friends. ⁓ and so I ⁓ I kept telling them how interested I am in directing, and they finally came to me with this amazing script of next door and were like, What do you think? Do you want to direct this? And I was like, Absolutely, are you serious? Like, I couldn't have asked for a better script. And thank you so much for.
you know, believing in me that I actually have the ability to direct and to move up from being a script supervisor. It's really amazing.
Silvan (42:00)
talked about sort of, you know, how you developed this relationship with Candy Jar over several productions. I mean, you've made forty movies with them and forty projects with them, and then they came to you with with Nextdoor. What was it about Nextdoor specifically that you were like, This is the story I'm ready to tell?
Caroline Plyler (42:19)
Really, it was because I resonated with the story so much. ⁓ being bisexual and having a crush on my high school best friend. I I really understood, you know, what that feeling was like because
You know, I had lived it. So getting a script that I resonated with was so like I I was over the moon. ⁓ because you don't get that a lot.
Where you have to learn, like you have to find the ways in which it resonates with you. But this just like from the jump, I was like, my gosh, absolutely. I totally understand what it's like to have a crush on somebody as the same gender as you and know how confusing that can be. And, you know, wondering if they like you back or not, wondering if it's okay to even like them. ⁓
Yeah, so I and I also just thought that it was so much fun. Like I I don't know. I just I really resonated with the characters. Like turning Kit into kind of this like alt boy was definitely an expression of myself because I was definitely that like mall emo girl. And that I was like, make Kit and Hadley kind of feel like
Declan (43:40)
Yeah.
Caroline Plyler (43:48)
like the the two cool artsy kids to where like they think that they're the dorks, but actually everybody's just terrified of them because they're so hot and cool. and yeah, it just I I just like immediately got taken back to high school and was like, my gosh, I I so know how to tell a version of this story. So it was very exciting.
Silvan (44:11)
Right? Because I think we all have that experience of being in high school or for our side of the world, like comprehensive or secondary school, where you just tap into that emotionally because it's so present in your life and it's such a formative part of your your growing up years in your teens that you know, you could be the jock or you could be the emo kid or I was the choir boy, you know.
And there's such a resonance that draws you into this story.
Caroline Plyler (44:43)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's great. I mean, I I wanted it to feel as real and as lived in as possible, but I also like I wanted to bring in some camp to it as well because we have to. It's a very high drama, high stakes ⁓ you know, movie in that way. So I was like, let's make it camp and fun on top of it.
Declan (45:08)
Yeah,
but that's the fun of like queer stories in general. Like, see if you're like reading a lot of MM romance and stuff like that there, there is that vibe to them that is just so fun and it makes them really lighthearted and very easy to consume. So translating it onto film then and capturing that like that tone and that essence, yeah, just makes for a really, really fun time.
Caroline Plyler (45:32)
Yeah, absolutely. And ⁓
I haven't personally read any of the nextdoor books, but I think that the author, Michael Bienne, has a lot of different versions of the story of Nextdoor, which I think is super fun. ⁓ and obviously his books ⁓ you know brought ⁓ inspiration to the scripts. So I also don't think that these scripts and these stories would be so much fun if they weren't fleshed out so great and these
romance novels that he wrote.
Silvan (46:07)
Yeah, because we see this with, you know, Rachel Reed's books on the Heated Rivalry or the Game Changer series rather. And then you have people like Jacob Chenney who have come in, consumed these books and adapted them in in a in a very similar way. I was thinking about what kind of conversation you would like people to have after watching the movie.
Caroline Plyler (46:28)
Yeah, I would like for people to feel again, like they just watched a Disney Channel original that just so happened to be queer. ⁓ I I always like
imagine in my head like how great it'll be one day where we don't really have to like label ourselves like gender wise or sexuality wise. It's all just like a normal part of life. And I kind of feel like making a queer young romance, ⁓ lighthearted romance at that.
Silvan (47:02)
it's so true. That's what
you come away feeling when you're watching your movie. You feel that sense of there's this warmth that comes across.
Caroline Plyler (47:13)
Good. That's I mean, that's what I want totally. I think that we've all felt the vast majority of us, I should say, have felt like alienated in life and have felt like something that they're doing or feeling is wrong that like should be normal. And ⁓ you know, just being able to
Let especially younger people know that it's alright ⁓ to have a crush on somebody who's expressing the same gender as you is okay. ⁓ and is totally normal and not something that you should feel ashamed of. And everything is lighthearted and easy and can be fun and doesn't have to be filled with so much drama and anguish and mental illness and whatever.
We all have enough of that anyway. Let's just kind of try and live in the fantasy of Disneyland where you know you always get the boy and or you know the person that you're yearning for and everybody lives happily ever after. And your bully apologizes to you and comes out.
Silvan (48:29)
Spoiler alert.
Caroline Plyler (48:32)
Yeah, spoiler alert. Absolutely.
Declan (48:32)
Okay.
Silvan (48:38)
so next door is presented in a vertical format.
I wanted to ask you if that was a conscious decision with you in the studio or and and how that sort of how that came to be.
Caroline Plyler (48:52)
Yeah, so ⁓ Candy Jar has always shown their movies in a vertical format. ⁓ they've recently started showing their movies in 169, so horizontally. ⁓ you now have the option on your phone to watch it both ways. ⁓ but this has just been a surge in how people watch their shows now as they watch it on their phone, these little microdramas. ⁓
So that's all Candy Jar's decision. ⁓ and this is how they've been putting out their movies since I've been working for them, so since the beginning. ⁓ it's very exciting that we can now have the option to watch the movie both ways, because I don't know if y'all watched it horizontally, but you get to see so much more of the world, and it's really nice. ⁓ I had an amazing DP, Kenji Levin, who just shot
the most amazing, you know, sequences for us to make this into a movie. ⁓ so the vertical format I think is a great way to ⁓
initially bring people in because so much of us are on social media. So you you know, y'all saw it on your for you page. So it pops up for you on your for you page on TikTok in the vertical format. And then all of a sudden you're sucked into the movie. ⁓ and then you're on the candy jar app and you're like, I'm buying this movie right now. yeah, exactly. ⁓
Declan (50:18)
Yeah.
Silvan (50:22)
Take all my money.
Caroline Plyler (50:27)
And I I think it's just a very like digestible way for people to to watch a movie.
Silvan (50:33)
From that point of view, are you filming it like a traditional movie and then sort of cropping in a vertical format? Or are you filming specifically in that vertical format in mind?
Caroline Plyler (50:45)
So with Candy Jar, ⁓ we shoot four three. So that means we shoot the full whole entire frame. ⁓ on this project we shot
on an Alexa 35 ⁓ with vintage lenses from old fast glass which is kind of why it has that fun vintagey Disney Channel original feel and yeah so we shoot the whole frame the whole 4-3 and then we'll crop for our 16-9 our horizontal cut and then we'll crop within that 16-9 our nine by 16 vertical cut
Declan (51:22)
like when you're like storyboarding and you're planning your shots, are you planning it with the intention that this is going to be vertical or are you planning it like it's gonna be sort of shot traditionally? Like how do you usually decide your shot composition whenever you're having to do it in a style?
Caroline Plyler (51:42)
I definitely want to always make sure that the shot that I'm shooting for the 16-9 frame works in the vertical and looks just as good in the vertical as it does in the 16-9 because I don't want to take away anything from any of the frames, even the four three. I want it to look like a composed shot as well. So it's it's very interesting trying to think of shots and blocking that works for all three of those.
sizes. ⁓ We've definitely kind of gotten it down to a science a little bit ⁓ of what shots work and what shots don't. We'll put metadata onto our monitors so that way we can see the nine, ⁓ the nine by 16, the 169, and then the full 4.3. So we can see if our shot is working or not.
Silvan (52:36)
That makes sense. And I was thinking about some of the challenges that might kind of present and how you have to really think about almost each shot as an individual shot, but do they just work together anyway, right?
Caroline Plyler (52:50)
Yeah, absolutely. I
you know, shooting these kind of ⁓ microdramas, you're shooting for coverage. So you don't shoot it how you tech like wouldn't maybe necessarily shoot ⁓ a feature film or a short film because you want to be you want the audience to be able to see the whole thing that's happening. So we shoot a lot of, you know, close ups so that way you can really feel the emotion and the conversation that's happening that you wouldn't necessarily feel if you shot it how you would make
maybe
want to shoot ⁓ a a feature film ⁓ because you just in a feature you're alwa always watching it 16 9 so you can kind of see the full picture. But if somebody's watching nine by sixteen, they're maybe only going to be able to see one actor if you're not getting close enough on them. And these are so dramatic. You like want to see their face and you want to see what they're going through. ⁓ so shooting coverage is very important for
the success of these micro dramas.
Silvan (53:54)
Yeah, and you can
definitely see that when I watch the next door sh you know, the film. Like you can see all the expressions and you see the close-ups and it really allows you to immerse yourself into it.
Caroline Plyler (54:08)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that kind of goes hand in hand with romance. You know, you romance always has these like very tight, beautiful shots of these people where you can really feel what they're feeling and really be in their mind and in the moment with them. ⁓ so it's
really amazing and really important storytelling-wise to really be up in the actor's business. ⁓ so that way you can really fully feel the full effects of the story.
Silvan (54:41)
you talked a little bit about before how we are consuming so much of our content on our phones now. Do you sort of see vertical storytelling as sort of
a new artistic way or a new distribution format that people will get used to.
Caroline Plyler (54:58)
I absolutely think that it's here to stay. I think ⁓ it's ⁓ like I was mentioning before, it's very digestible. It's very easy to find, ⁓ you know, your audience, which I was shocked because I've ⁓
I've worked as a script supervisor, so I've not really followed the movie so much of, or even really know if they're reaching the right people. But now as a director, seeing how quickly my story was able to get to the correct audience because it's has this vertical aspect and was able to get in the algorithm to the specific groups of people that would like my story is kind of amazing. And everything that you're looking for in distribution.
And that's, you know, if we have these algorithms built in, I definitely think that this is here to stay. And I think that we're going to figure out, ⁓ you know, new and artistic ways to make this medium.
you know, ⁓ bigger and more accessible and have different kinds of stories. Like we've always said from the beginning of making these that like thriller is kind of perfect for this small frame because you miss out on seeing so much. So you're left to wondering what's like right right there behind their face. So I I'm really excited to see what happens with everything. ⁓ because
You know, these are legit projects and legit productions. We shoot with legit professional people and equipment. ⁓ we should absolutely keep this going.
Silvan (56:40)
Yeah, and
do you think there are any misconceptions about sort of vertical content or vertical filmmaking?
Caroline Plyler (56:47)
I think there's always ⁓ questions and confusion and wondering what something is when there's a new thing introduced. And I think that
That kind of happened in the vertical world a little bit of like, is this here to stay? Is this legitimate? What even is this? Do people even like this? And I think that we're overwhelmingly seeing that people do like this. This is a legitimate work, ⁓ source of work for people and a legitimate way for people to get their stories out there. So I think that we're now seeing ⁓
you know, what we've all seen from the beginning, that this is actually kind of cool and pretty great. ⁓ and I I I'm excited with how much more this vertical filmmaking is being accepted. Absolutely.
Declan (57:43)
I noticed it's become really commonly used for like K dramas. like I have a friend who nearly exclusively consumes K dramas, and most of them now are on this vertical format. And so that's when I first started like seeing them.
Caroline Plyler (57:48)
Mm-hmm.
Declan (58:02)
was whenever I ma they become my for you page and I would have to sit and watch a few, you know, just in case there was something good to be seen. ⁓ but then when I seen it sort of done through like a Western lens as well and it started coming out in different forms of stories being adapted here, I thought that it was such a clever art style to use whenever like trying to market, especially on social media and things like that, because
The Doom Scroll is a real thing. And so many people are like I think it's also a good way of getting people to watch movies again. ⁓ ha a lot of people will literally sit on their phone the entire time they're sat in front of a TV watching a film. And so it's a good way of like circumventing that by like, hmm, well, actually now you can watch the movie while you're scrolling. So yeah, you can enjoy it through that format instead. So
Caroline Plyler (58:36)
It way.
Declan (59:01)
Yeah, it it's definitely it definitely has a good place and it has a role that could be really, really helpful in getting projects and film and TVs to people that are sort of drifting away from it a little bit.
Caroline Plyler (59:18)
Yeah, I one hundred percent agree with that. It's you know, the the episodes are like a minute to two minutes long, so it's very digestible. And if you start to get
you know, bored or whatever it may be, you just scroll on past or come back to it later. ⁓ but typically these are so high drama you want to keep on scrolling. ⁓ I think it's I mean it's really fun. Soap operas have always been an important part of television and ⁓ now we just watch them on our phone, you know.
Silvan (59:52)
Yeah, I was gonna ask about the second screen watching and how that's impacted, you know, the industry you're in and what you're seeing around you. Because similar to what Dacan said, we are just consuming so much information on our phone whilst we're watching something that there's a distractibility there. And I mean I do it all the time. I'm not
Caroline Plyler (1:00:12)
Yeah.
Yeah, no, absolutely. We're all so plugged in and connected at all times and we've all been trained by our phones to like need dopamine constantly. And I think that this format kind of gives you that dopamine that you're searching for, ⁓ that kind of gets lost. ⁓
Especially with younger people when watching movies. ⁓ it's also why I think ⁓ movie theaters are so important because it is so different watching a movie in a movie theater. You're like fully immersed, you're sitting with these groups of people that you don't know and you're all experiencing this movie together. And ⁓ you're
I don't I personally don't feel tempted to scroll on my phone when I'm at the movie theater because I'm like in this artistic experience versus when I'm at home, I'm like, ⁓ did I remember to send that email while I'm like watching this movie instead of you know
just silly things get brought up when you're doing when you're watching at home, which is why I think casual watching ⁓ has become this kind of important ⁓ art form that's coming up and making these verticals and these micro dramas. ⁓ because it's an an an untapped market, you know? ⁓ we need something that we feel like we can casually watch while we're doing the dishes. We can prop our phone up and have, you know, next door playing in the background.
And I'm going to stop watching because every or stop washing because every once in a while there like some sort of crazy drama cliffhanger has happened. And I want to watch that, but then I want to go back to washing my dishes. So, you know, nothing wrong with that. And I think that that's an important art form because y'all still at the end of the day got the message of the movie and it impacted y'all, which is all that art is trying to do anyway.
Silvan (1:02:12)
completely agree. And can I just say whoever was editing next to the next door clips did such a good job because there were these cliffhangers. And I'm like, seriously, that's how they're gonna stop? Seriously?
Caroline Plyler (1:02:24)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. My editor, ⁓ Dan amazing. So great. Yeah.
Declan (1:02:28)
Okay.
Silvan (1:02:30)
Such a good job. I mean, and and you're right,
because I think I'm thinking back to the last TV show that I watched without my phone was was heated rivalry. Like I remember putting my phone away, like literally away, and I was completely immersed into it. I know Declan and I have had lots of conversations about the nuances of that show and the details that you miss when you're on your phone and you're not watching it with your full attention.
Do you see vertical storytelling as something that's going to take over in the mainstream?
Caroline Plyler (1:03:04)
I definitely think that it's headed into the mainstream if it's not already there. I mean, it's this vertical drama space is massive. And Declan, you mentioned before the K dramas. ⁓ I remember my brother lived in Busan, South Korea for a while and would talk to me about these K dramas and that you watch them on your phone. And I remember hearing that and being like, What are you talking about? And he was like, They're so dramatic, it's so crazy. You
Get sucked in. So it's already moved from the east over to the west and America and then, you know, Europe. And I mean, they're shooting these in like Turkey and all over. ⁓ so I definitely think that this is going to be a mainstream format that we start to see. I mean, YouTube is so popular. People love to watch YouTube. This isn't so different from that.
Silvan (1:04:01)
No, and YouTube have their own distribution now. I mean, there's always money to be made, right? And I think you're right. I think sometimes in the West we are playing catch up because I know, you know, Daclan talked about the K dramas being so popular and especially in India, you know, some of the Bollywood stuff is really, really popular in vertical format now as well. And I feel like we're always just maybe just catching up to them, you know? Like with with the Korean beauty products, we're always catching up.
Caroline Plyler (1:04:05)
Yeah.
Absolutely. ⁓
Declan (1:04:28)
Yes.
Silvan (1:04:32)
And so thinking about Candy Joe and them sort of using this vertical format mainly, what advantages do they have over a traditional publishing or movie studio, do you think?
Caroline Plyler (1:04:46)
Well, I think that they have something that's kind of similar to a lot of movie studios, which is they own all of their IP. A lot of movie studios own their own IP and make movies from that. so Candy Jar has, you know, ⁓ Ink It Publishing and Galatea stories behind it.
So they have these romance novels that have a ⁓ an already built-in fan base behind them. And so they know what stories people like and what stories people wanna be see told. So then they'll funnel it through ⁓ to candy jar.
To make these stories. ⁓ so I think that ⁓ that's how Candy Jar kind of stands out differently than some of these other vertical companies, is that they are very much like a studio in the fact that they have all of this IP ⁓ and built-in fan base, which is so great. And ⁓
you know, being able to ⁓ direct a movie for them, especially in an area that resonates with you as a director is kind of great because then you're put out on social media as this person who directed this movie, and then you can kind of start your fan base of people that are gonna wanna see your kinds of movies, which is super important as a director because you need to kind of you need to have your people.
that are interested in your movies.
Silvan (1:06:20)
Right.
And and you're so right, because what they've done really well is they've really tapped into the algorithm. And that can be so, so different for everyone. And and that's what I've noticed they did really well. Like I had never heard of Candy Jar, never heard of Nextdoor until it literally popped up on my FYP. And I was like, Okay, you've got my attention. Take some money now. but you talked about a little bit about the fan base as well, and I've seen that you've been reposting some of the edits from Nextdoor that
Caroline Plyler (1:06:26)
Yes.
Yeah. Yeah.
Silvan (1:06:49)
have been created f by fans, what what does that meant for you?
Caroline Plyler (1:06:54)
It's meant everything. ⁓ I mean it
It's been my dream to be able to connect with people in this way and to share stories this way. And so the fact that this is affecting people so much is like I'm just so beyond overwhelmed, and it's like crazy that this story is so impactful to people that they're making edits about it. I'm like, I have to show people. This is so cool. I I'm just like so happy. Like it it's the cool
coolest thing to put your art out there and have people receive it so well and then give you back their own version of the art that that like really s like spoke to them. Because they're a lot of time making edits about like moments that happened in the movie and I'm like, my god, that's so cool. Amazing.
Silvan (1:07:47)
And I've wondered about what it's like to be receiving your art back to you in a different lens almost, because they'll edit certain moments and pause or even put some different music in the background and what's that like for you receiving that back?
Caroline Plyler (1:08:05)
I think it's great. I think it's super cool. I mean, if my art is inspiring you to make art, like that's kind of what makes the world go round, right? It's I'm I think it's amazing and beautiful. And I'm just like I I feel like a broken record of being like, I'm so overwhelmed and I'm so grateful. But like I I literally have no other words because it's like it's the coolest thing ever. ⁓ like
Just seeing your art go super viral and then having people write you of like, this like meant so much to me. This is the best movie. I wanna see more. And then like I've had like artists make drawings of Kit and River and like post them and then or people
you know, make their f you know, fan edits or whatever. I I think it's amazing. And it also like helps with the marketing more too, because then they're posting and then I'm able to repost and maybe more and more people get to see this movie, which is kinda the point.
Silvan (1:09:07)
Definitely.
Declan (1:09:08)
just wanted to ask, is there any sort of projects or books that have like a queer center story that you would absolutely love to be able to adapt and direct?
Caroline Plyler (1:09:21)
Yes. so maybe not super queer, but definitely has like some queer undertones, is The Secret History by Donna Tart. I that is one of my all-time favorite books. I think it would be incredible to be able to make that into a movie. ⁓ also I've just finished reading ⁓ A Little Life, which is, I mean, it that is like
trauma on another level. But it could be such a beautiful movie, you know.
Silvan (1:09:58)
I can't see Declan's face right now, but I know Declan was not a fan, but I'll let him talk before I do.
Declan (1:10:06)
I
Caroline Plyler (1:10:07)
It's fine. It really
is kind of trauma porn in a way, but beautiful. Beautifully written. I mean, the prose is amazing. It's qu amazing.
Declan (1:10:12)
Yeah, I just
Yeah, the
the writing style and I and I'd say that that the writing style and the writing quality in the book is fantastic. But it was just getting to a point where I was like, I don't wanna read this anymore. Like this is like I'm no longer enjoying this. I'm no longer enjoying reading this. And then I just had to stop. Yeah.
Caroline Plyler (1:10:25)
Another level.
Yeah.
Totally. Totally. I
I did that point in that book too. But then I was like I I just fell in love with the writing style so much that I was like, I'm gonna keep pushing through. And I will say it was worth it to keep pushing through.
Silvan (1:10:52)
100%. And this is
where Declan and I very much disagree. And we don't disagree much on the podcast, to be fair, but I loved A Little Life. I read it, I listened to the audiobook as well. And I don't want to spoil it for anybody, but there is a point in the book, about three quarters of the way, where you can just stop reading and pretend that's the end. And that's fine. I, like you, Caroline, chose to push through. I even went to see, so they did ⁓ the
Declan (1:10:55)
Yeah.
Caroline Plyler (1:11:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yes.
Silvan (1:11:20)
Play on the West End very, very briefly a couple of years ago. And I know we were talking about the West End just before we went on camera. And that was my introduction to a little life. So I actually didn't know the story. I went in a little blind on purpose. And I remember at the interval looking over to my friend, who's it's his favorite book, saying, That's it, right? Like, no more bad stuff, right? And he kind of looked at me and laughed.
Caroline Plyler (1:11:23)
my God. Well
Yeah.
It's like overwhelming how bad it is. Like not not not that it's bad. It's just like trauma after trauma after trauma, which it's overwhelming, but it's so beautiful. And again, I think important to be written and told about because I
Declan (1:12:01)
Yeah.
Caroline Plyler (1:12:13)
some people one hundred percent connect with all of those traumas in a way. ⁓ yeah.
Silvan (1:12:20)
I am
surprised that it hasn't been made into a movie. They filmed the West End production and it was online very briefly and then they took it down and I cannot find it anywhere. So if there are any listeners who have like a sneaky link, please send it to me. Yeah, it's such a beautiful story, and it was done so well on in the play in London a few years ago. ⁓
Caroline Plyler (1:12:26)
I know.
Yes, and me.
I could really see this as a play, maybe even more so than a movie, you know.
Silvan (1:12:46)
Yes. Yeah.
Declan (1:12:49)
Yeah, I think it would work as a play. I think if you made this into a movie you would have ⁓ it would be very hard to sell to like an audience to sit through that for like three hours because it's a really long book. And to do the whole thing justice, you wouldn't need to make it that long. Like it wouldn't need to be like two and a half hours.
Silvan (1:13:01)
I I can s
Caroline Plyler (1:13:04)
Yeah.
Silvan (1:13:11)
I I can see it as a mini series or a limited series because it it so suits that. I mean, I'm sure there are people in the background. I'm manifesting this for you, Caroline. Please bring us a little life.
Caroline Plyler (1:13:12)
Totally.
Right, yeah, definitely.
Declan (1:13:17)
Mm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Caroline Plyler (1:13:27)
Yes, somebody call me to make a little life, please. I'd be happy to share my trauma through through a little life.
Declan (1:13:39)
I I got to I got to the point where they were together and it just was getting messy and complicated and hard. And then I like flip over to the next chapter and somebody is cheating on someone and I'm like I know.
Caroline Plyler (1:14:02)
Yeah.
Declan (1:14:02)
No,
no, no. I know where this is going. I see the car crash ahead. I've had enough. I am no longer told I am gone.
Caroline Plyler (1:14:08)
Yeah.
Silvan (1:14:11)
I remember
watching Declan's review of A Little Life when I was on holiday in Croatia and I think we had recorded our podcast episode last year for something else and I immediately messaged him like no you've got it wrong, you need to keep going. Please just keep going. ⁓ because it is such a beautiful it's a tragic story show.
Caroline Plyler (1:14:32)
He's not wrong. It is No, I'm on your side, Sylvan. I'm on your side. I'm saying you're not wrong. You need to keep going. Exactly. You absolutely need to keep going. I know it it sounds like it's a standard thing to hit a part and be like, ⁓ my gosh, how much more can go wrong? But if you just keep pushing and just keep following, falling in love with how it's written.
Silvan (1:14:35)
Caroline, whose side do you want? Do we want this movie or not?
Declan (1:14:56)
I do know what Yeah.
I know what happens and I'm not sold on continuous
Caroline Plyler (1:15:04)
Okay.
Silvan (1:15:07)
Look, in the words in the words
Declan (1:15:09)
Mm-hmm.
Silvan (1:15:09)
of Dory,
just keep swimming.
Caroline Plyler (1:15:12)
Yes, exactly. Exactly. Also, it's not about the destination. It's about the journey there. So the journey to get there is beautiful. It's it is a journey through hell, but it's a beautiful journey through hell.
Declan (1:15:12)
⁓ good.
The journeys for your health and
Silvan (1:15:26)
It is. I was in
tears. I think the only for me, the only books that I've cried sobbing are A Little Life and The Notebook.
Declan (1:15:28)
The views are great.
Caroline Plyler (1:15:36)
my gosh, yeah. I remember reading a notebook as a kid and like having that like pain in your left arm because like your heart aches so much. Yeah.
Silvan (1:15:47)
so coming back to sort of your journey as well, Caroline, is there any advice that you would give somebody who's coming into the industry or interested in directing, for example?
Caroline Plyler (1:16:01)
Yeah, I would say to just continue to do it. ⁓ without getting too far into anything, I have been ⁓
you know, kind of moving through life on more or less on my own since I was seventeen and have not had much direction and have kind of just been, you know, trying different things and seeing how things go. and I was always afraid to kind of follow my ultimate dream, which was to work in film. ⁓ I didn't know what aspect I wanted to work in in film. I ⁓
I just knew that ever since a little kid, I just love movies, I love writing, I love storytelling, and I would always envision as a little kid like being on movie sets and making a movie. ⁓ you know, typically as an actor, but that's really I think what most people think of when they think of movies. So if anyone has like an inkling or a dream or whatever, I think you should go out and try.
Everybody tells you that it's such a tough industry to break into, and that's not a lie. It is, but I don't think it's as hard as it as you. I think you'd be surprised at how much easier it is if this is actually something that you deeply want and you show so much ⁓ you know, enthusiasm. And also what's most important is putting in the work to be ⁓
you know, up to or putting in the work in order to have a job such as making a a film or working in production ⁓ at all. ⁓ because it is such
It's it's such a trade and like a skill. And I think a lot of people forget that. They think it's, you know, ideas or, you know, imagination or whatever that may be. And yes, it is those things, but it's also a skill that you really need to put in a lot of time to hone your craft. So that way when you do have the opportunity to step onto a set, you can really ⁓ impress people by how well you know how to do your
specific craft. So I 100% follow your dream and keep trying. Because also ⁓ you might find something else that you like. You might think, like for me, I thought that I wanted to be an actor and then all of a sudden I saw more and understood more of like what a director does. And I was like, ⁓ that seems interesting. And so many people start out with acting and then find that they actually are really into makeup and they want to put makeup on
people and learn how to make prosthetics or that they're more into the costume part and want to make costumes or they're really into like making things so they want to go into the art department and maybe be a a prop master or whatever that may be. ⁓ so I definitely think you should try and find and and be open to finding something different than what you thought that you were originally going ⁓
Therefore in the first place.
Silvan (1:19:28)
It's really
lovely.
the next section, Caroline, we'd like to ask you some quick fire questions to see what your instincts are telling you. How's that? So the first one is
Can you name one film that every aspiring director should watch?
Caroline Plyler (1:19:48)
Lost in translation. It's amazing. Amazing. I mean a masterclass and like in heartbreak, honestly.
Silvan (1:19:53)
Good choice.
Yeah.
so ⁓ the next one is can you name a director whose career you admire? I know we've kind of talked about this.
Caroline Plyler (1:20:07)
Sophia Coppola, obviously. ⁓ she's amazing, incredible. Paul Thomas Anderson, amazing. ⁓ yeah, I I mean if honestly, if I could have Sophia, Sophia Coppola's career, ⁓ where I get to write a lot of my movies and also, you know, make some ⁓ studio movies, that would be pretty cool with me. ⁓
Silvan (1:20:34)
Yeah.
The next one is what is your favorite part of filmmaking?
Caroline Plyler (1:20:42)
My favorite part of filmmaking is being able to collaborate with everyone. I like I as a director do not think that I'm like omniscient and know everything and am like am the one making this movie. I really truly think that this is like a collaborative experience. I love hearing other people's ideas about what they think.
⁓ a a certain thing or aspect of writing or character or whatever it may be should go. ⁓ I think that things work the best when you collaborate.
Silvan (1:21:22)
Yeah, yeah. The next one is what is the least glamorous part of filmmaking?
Caroline Plyler (1:21:30)
my gosh, the hours. The hours are brutal, as you know, Twin. It's brutal. you are on set, especially as a director, ⁓ because as as soon as you're
Declan (1:21:33)
Second.
Caroline Plyler (1:21:47)
like before you're on set, while you're on set and offset, you're having to think about so many different things, answer so many different questions. ⁓ also if you like you have a client involved, you're also talking with them and hearing their vision and just constantly ⁓ you know working. So even if you're not on set and working, you're still working. ⁓
get very little sleep during production. So the the hours are brutal. Absolutely. But yeah, no, it's definitely not. But there is a saying of like I'd rat like the worst day on set is way better than my best day off of set. ⁓ that we like to say.
Declan (1:22:24)
Yeah, it's not a job for people that find sleep.
Caroline Plyler (1:22:41)
⁓ which is it's true. You you have to absolutely love it. ⁓ otherwise it is very grueling the hours.
Silvan (1:22:49)
Yeah.
I like sleep away too much, I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie.
Caroline Plyler (1:22:53)
That's fair. You can just watch.
Silvan (1:22:56)
Give me a nine
to five any day. The next one, Caroline, is what's one thing audiences would be surprised to learn about making next door?
Caroline Plyler (1:22:59)
Yeah.
they'd be surprised to learn about. ⁓ I think that a lot of ⁓
That next door was a lot of firsts for us. It was my producer's ⁓ first time producing. I I love you, Danny, so much if you're watching this. ⁓ it was my first time directing. It was Justin's first time leading a candy jar movie. ⁓ and it was Nick's first time being on like a legitimate production, as I'm pretty sure that's how he put it. ⁓ so it was it was really amazing.
Declan (1:23:28)
Okay.
Caroline Plyler (1:23:48)
to have so much of this, you know, especially our two leading characters and then the director and producer having it all be our first time and having a crew that just like totally lifted us up and really supported us and you know helped bring our vision to life. It was amazing. And I think ⁓
Maybe kind of surprising that this was our first time because it seems to have done so well. It's crazy.
Silvan (1:24:19)
Definitely.
Yeah. And when people finish watching Next Door, what feeling do you hope stays with them afterwards?
Declan (1:24:20)
Yeah.
Caroline Plyler (1:24:30)
I hope inspiration and joy and happiness and peace and acceptance of themselves, 'cause that's really what the movie's about at the, you know, heart of it all is about acceptance.
Silvan (1:24:45)
And so for anyone who's wondering where can people watch next door, Caroline?
Caroline Plyler (1:24:52)
So you can watch next door on Candy Jar either on your phone or on your Apple TV. ⁓ and then or on Amazon Prime Live TV, there's a candy jar channel.
Silvan (1:25:04)
Amazing. And if you want to just dip your toes in, you can always check out the candy jar TikTok page, which have a lot of the first few episodes there, so you can sort of really get into the story as well.
Caroline Plyler (1:25:17)
Yes, they're on Instagram as well if you don't have TikTok.
Silvan (1:25:19)
Yeah.
And are there any projects that you have coming up that you're really excited about?
Caroline Plyler (1:25:27)
Yeah, so I've directed another project for Candy Jar. This one is not queer. This is a ⁓ plus-sized romance, and ⁓ it's college age this time. It's definitely much sexier. It's a sex education kind of story. and it was based off of the book Study Buddy that was written by Jen Cooper.
that's on the Galatea Stories app. And yeah, it should be coming out ⁓ June 26th, I believe is the date. That's very exciting. It's starring yeah, totally. It's starring ⁓ Noah Andre, who is a very prominent vertical actor right now. And then we also we had a brand new actress come on the scene. Her name is Sophia.
Silvan (1:26:04)
that's soon.
Caroline Plyler (1:26:21)
And she was incredible and I can't wait for y'all to see.
Silvan (1:26:24)
That's exact we're gonna have to get you back on for for when that release is, Caroline.
Caroline Plyler (1:26:29)
Yeah, totally, totally.
Silvan (1:26:32)
And where can people
find you on socials?
Caroline Plyler (1:26:36)
Y'all can find me, all of my socials are at Caroline GrayPliler. I have TikTok and Instagram.
Silvan (1:26:44)
Perfect. Thank you so much. Like genuinely, this has been such a treat for us. just from the whole journey, just popping having the videos pop up on our FYP to then contacting you is so lovely and so receptive and so happy to talk about this with us that we've we've just been really happy with the response that we've seen on our end as well.
Declan (1:26:49)
Yeah.
Caroline Plyler (1:27:05)
my gosh, I'm like literally dying. This is like a dream come true. I like can't. I'm dying. Pinch me moment, truly. So thank y'all for having me on and helping this like helping me live my like childhood dreams. I don't know. This is like crazy.
Declan (1:27:05)
Yeah.
Silvan (1:27:23)
Yeah, 'cause it's important. We need to be telling queer stories like this and they're important to tell.
Caroline Plyler (1:27:30)
Absolutely. And again, like we were mentioning, especially lighthearted queer stories.
Declan (1:27:31)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. A hundred percent. Caroline, thank you so much. You've been an absolutely amazing guest. We've had such a fun time.
Caroline Plyler (1:27:40)
Thank you.
I've had the best time. Thank y'all so much.
Declan (1:27:49)
Well, everyone, thank you so much for joining us. And again, thank you to Caroline for joining us. ⁓ we are across TikTok, Instagram. You can watch the podcast as well, not just on Spotify listening, but you can also watch us on YouTube too and other platforms as well.
on top of that as well, we also have a fable. ⁓ so a book club where we're looking at different MM Romance books and then getting in discussions about them. And those books will eventually end up on the podcast as well, where me and Selwyn will be discussing them in more detail. ⁓ at the moment, we just finished one of the Puckboy books and we are currently polling to see what everyone wants to read next. So if you would like to make a decision on that and choose which out of the select four I think I've set up.
⁓ that you want to read for the next couple of weeks, then get on there. ⁓ it's called the Long Game Podcast Book Club. So yeah, give that a try and don't forget to like, subscribe and check out all Caroline socials as well. And yeah, we'll see you for next time.