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Is there something in your life that’s been driving you crazy for a while? Some situation at work that you find yourself venting to your spouse about every night at dinner? Or maybe a recurring conflict with your partner or your kids that never seems to be adequately resolved? Do you find yourself ruminating over a problematic situation every time you have a moment alone in the car?
In this episode, Dr. Bethy Campbell and I are sharing a 4-step process that can help you exit that complaint loop and actually move toward positive change. Bethy is a clinical psychologist, a marriage and family therapist.
The technique that we’re talking about today is taken from her book on Helping Skills, a book that would be a great resource if you are in a situation where you’re frequently called upon to provide guidance and emotional support.
But this absolutely an approach that can (and should) apply to your own knotty situations.
Key Takeaways
In this episode, Dr. Bethy Campbell and I are sharing a 4-step process that can help you exit that complaint loop and actually move toward positive change. Bethy is a clinical psychologist, a marriage and family therapist.
The technique that we’re talking about today is taken from her book on Helping Skills, a book that would be a great resource if you are in a situation where you’re frequently called upon to provide guidance and emotional support.
But this absolutely an approach that can (and should) apply to your own knotty situations.
Key Takeaways
- Complaining has its place. When done constructively, it can help us acknowledge and process pent-up feelings, and encourage self-awareness and self-compassion.
- Repetitive, non-constructive complaining–in addition to wearing out our friends and loved ones patience–increases our stress and hinders problem-solving.
- Reorienting the language we use to talk about the problem can help us see more possibilities for resolution or change.
- If you don’t have a trusted partner to help you reflect, journaling or recording voice memos can help you spot and reframe unhelpful language.
Mentioned in this episode
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Creators and Guests
Host
Monica Reinagel
Monica Reinagel has been helping people create healthier lives for more than 15 years through her Nutrition Diva podcast, books, online coaching programs and in-person workshops. As a licensed and board-certified nutritionist, her approach is grounded in science but is also practical and realistic. Monica is also a former professional opera singer.
What is Change Academy?
Learn how to cultivate a more productive mindset, form sustainable habits, and create a lifestyle that supports both your goals and your wellbeing with host, Monica Reinagel. Drawing on decades of expertise and experience, Monica provides guidance on navigating the challenging process of behavior change in a fun and accessible way. Learn more and find show notes for every episode at https://changeacademypodcast.com
Is there something in your life that's been driving you crazy for a while? Maybe it's a situation at work that you find yourself venting to your spouse about every night at dinner, or maybe it's a recurring conflict with your partner or your kids that just never seems to be adequately resolved. Do you find yourself ruminating over the same problematic situation every time you have a minute alone in the car? Well, in this episode, doctor Bethy Campbell shares a 4 step process that can help you exit that complaint loop and actually move toward positive change.
Brock:Alright. Alright. If you want, take your seats or lace up your sneaks. We're about to get started.
Monica:Welcome to the Change Academy podcast. I'm your host, Monica Rineagle. And in this show, we talk about what it takes to create healthier mindsets and habits in our own lives, as well as how we can create healthier communities and workplaces. Whether you're working on your own health and well-being, or promoting healthy behaviors is your job, We're going to talk about what works, what's hard, what's needed and what's next. Let's jump in.
Monica:I sort of hope that my opening to today's episode brought to your mind a specific situation in your life, where you feel a little stuck in an unproductive complaint loop because that will give you the perfect opportunity to try out what we're talking about today. Doctor Betty Campbell has become a familiar voice on the Change Academy. She's a clinical psychologist, a marriage and family therapist, and during her academic career, she also pioneered a curriculum on helping skills, a process that people who are not trained therapists can safely use to support others or to help themselves when they're dealing with psychological or emotional challenges, and the technique that we're talking about today is taken from that curriculum. If you are in a situation where you're frequently called upon to provide guidance and emotional support, Bethy's book on helping skills would be an amazing resource for you. I'm going to include a link in the show notes, and I know that Bethy is also developing more resources in this area.
Monica:So if that is of personal or professional interest to you, you should definitely get on her mailing list at doctorbethie.com. But right now, let me get her in here so that we can share with you this great technique for getting out of those sticky self reinforcing complaint loops that we can all fall into so easily. Bethy Campbell, it is so nice to have you back on the Change Academy. Thanks so much for being here today.
Bethy:Thanks so much for having me. I'm so glad to be back.
Monica:And thank you so much for proposing this topic that we're gonna discuss today. I think this is a challenge that virtually everyone listening can relate to. That situation where you find yourself kind of spinning around a problem and you're rehearsing it to yourself. You're talking to anyone who will listen about all the things that are wrong with it, but you're not actually making any progress. You're kind of stuck in this complaint loop.
Monica:And what you have proposed and what we're going to share with listeners today is a process that when we're in that situation can help us reorient ourselves in relationship to that challenge in a way that opens up more possibilities for actual change, for an actual exit out of that loop.
Bethy:Absolutely. Yes. I love how you describe it. We've all been there, right? Where we just get stuck just looping back over and over, covering the same material and not being able to move forward.
Bethy:And there is a relatively simple switch that we can do that can help get us unstuck and moving forward again.
Monica:I love that. But before we get into that simple but powerful shift, there are times when just venting your frustrations can serve a valuable function.
Bethy:It certainly does sometimes. It does have benefits, and we can call this kind of complaining constructive complaining. So Okay. Voicing your complaints or acknowledging to them them to yourself, complaining to yourself, can help to release those pent up feelings so they're not just lingering inside. This then leads us to self awareness, having an understanding of what we're feeling inside, and can hopefully lead to just some self compassion, having an understanding for ourselves of what's happening.
Monica:There is a problem that may need our attention that we might want to be looking for solutions. If we're unwilling to admit that anything's wrong or that anything's bothering us, we can't get there.
Bethy:Exactly. And then if we choose to complain to someone else, it also can have some benefits to the relationship. It can strengthen the relationship through having a shared understanding, shared experience, and building empathy with each other.
Monica:That's true, but I know I've seen my partner's eyes glaze over when I'm complaining for the millionth time about the same thing. So. And we've probably done that to others as well. So where does it cross the line from a valuable way of acknowledging the issue, venting a little stress, getting some validation and becoming just a counterproductive use of our energy.
Bethy:Exactly. This is what we need to look out for is when it starts to have diminishing returns where constructive complaining then tips over into destructive or unproductive complaining. And sometimes we'll start to get that inkling ourselves, or our loved ones will give us that feedback, maybe through glazed eyes.
Monica:Right.
Bethy:If we continue to complain about the same issue over and over again or the same type of issue over and over, it can increase stress with that constant negativity. And with that too, that's gonna get in the way of problem solving. We tend to externalize the problem more and more, so we're focusing on other people and other things, which in the short term, that's okay. But if we continue to talk about how the world is this negative place, it can leave us feeling really powerless and helpless to do anything to change.
Monica:What's so interesting to me about the process that you're gonna be sharing with us today is that it's not an action based process. It is really about changing how we're talking about something in a way that can prepare us to see more opportunities for change.
Bethy:Exactly. I think that oftentimes, we expect that we need to do this this huge shift of just, okay, I'm complaining too much, so I've gotta shut that down and now just leap into action mode.
Monica:Right.
Bethy:And that is a huge leap. And so you see that even sometimes when people want to stop venting and start taking action, it's it's such a huge jump to make that they're not able to make it, and then they default back to the unproductive venting again. What I'm suggesting is that keep complaining. Actually, just complain better. Complain different just by if if we just if we just pivot our language in the way we talk about it, it can actually poise and position us for change and illuminate to us what's even possible to change.
Monica:Right. You are, going to be introducing us all to the 4 p's of change oriented language. Tell us what those are.
Bethy:Certainly. So this actually comes from my book, Helping Skills for Nonprofessional Counselors, where I teach people how to, when they're in conversation with someone else, what to do and say to help someone else shift their language. So if you're talking to someone who is, complaining excessively, that book talks about how you can shift the way you're talking to them to help them use more action oriented or change oriented language. But, today, we're gonna take that information and apply it to ourselves instead.
Monica:Mhmm.
Bethy:So when we feel that we're ready to stop venting and start to move towards change, we can use what I like to call the 4 Ps. And that means we just shift our focus and narrow down to talking about the person, the present, the problem, and perspectives.
Monica:Okay. Great. So let's take these 1 by 1. So the first of the 4 p's is person. And what you mean by that is that we need to make sure that we're focusing on our own experience in this particular scenario, because that's really the only one that we have any control over.
Bethy:Right? Excellent. Yes. And that's the whole point is we wanna narrow down and focus in on ourselves. So start using I statements.
Bethy:So rather than our natural urge to talk about the issue, the other players involved and what might be going on with them, we want to narrow in on our feelings, our thoughts, our behaviors, what we're doing and not doing. So, if we can look at an example of this, let's say that we're wanting to make some changes with our nutrition. We might start complaining about, my partner is sabotaging my nutrition goals, they're bringing snacks into the house that I can't stay out of. We would want to change that language rather than talking about the partner to using I statements. I'm struggling to stay out of the snacks in the house.
Monica:Bethy, this reminds me of standard advice that we often hear in interpersonal counseling that when we're having a conflict with another person and we are trying to talk with them about it, to always phrase everything in terms of I, I, I, and not you, you, you. It's the same thing, right?
Bethy:Yes. A 100%. Yes. And, initially, it is okay in in you know, when we're when we're working with, this issue, it's okay to say, oh, I'm frustrated with this person, and I think that they're thinking this or they're doing this. You know, that that can be short term helpful in just getting those feelings out.
Bethy:But exactly, if we're working towards something productive and helpful, Just like when we go to talk to someone about an issue, we wanna use I statements. The same thing here. When we're ready to be productive with the issue, we similarly wanna go to those I statements.
Monica:Okay. You had another great example here that might come up often in the workplace where I'm, I've got a lot to do. We've all got a lot on our plates and I can't get anything done because my colleagues are constantly interrupting complaining about my, how can I can't work like this? And my natural inclination would be to frame that problem in terms of my colleagues are constantly interrupting me. So now I'd wanna flip that around and say, I'm having a hard time meeting my deadlines.
Monica:Now, of course, I wanna add because my colleagues interrupt me too much, but we're gonna try to stop and just say, like, alright. What's, you know, what how does this affecting me? I'm having a hard time meeting my deadlines. Is that right?
Bethy:Exactly. And and we we so often see this. We can see it clearly in other people, but I think we can also see it in ourselves. When there's that complaining about the colleagues, it can get into this realm of they're not even thinking about me, they're being rude, they, they, they, they. And it's it's it seems subtle, but it is such a switch to say, I'm having a hard time.
Bethy:Yeah. This is my issue. And even if the end of that sentence is because I'm being interrupted by my colleagues, still the subject of the sentence
Monica:Mhmm.
Bethy:Is us, that we're focusing on what's going on with us rather than trying to mind read the motives of our colleagues.
Monica:Yeah. No, I can see how It would take a little discipline to do this, to catch those statements and translate them into I, but I can see already how this would begin to, as you said, reorient us to the problem. You offered another great example that plays out more just sort of in our our Public life and our community life where this happens to me all the time. I go to take a nice walk at the park and I see people throwing trash on the trail and leaving their dog bags by the side of the trail or their soda bottles that makes me so angry. You know, I'm very like would say, oh God, people are pigs.
Monica:There's just, there's just litter all over this park, but I guess really at the heart of it, I'm upset when I see a bunch of garbage in nature. Right.
Bethy:Absolutely. And there again, we're not, we're not taking responsibility for it or blaming ourselves. We're simply acknowledging our experience of it. Saying there's too much litter at the park, leaves us feeling really powerless to do anything by it. Life is just happening to us, and it's upsetting.
Bethy:When we say I'm upset by the garbage, it naturally leads to the idea that there are things that we could do about it, either about the garbage, about our upset, about Right. So, you know, we could we can handle it in different ways. And and, Monica, I think you made such a valuable point there of saying that this is challenging for us to catch on ourselves, which which is why it is helpful to talk this out with someone else who is helping you to shift your language. But one way or really a couple ways that we can, do this for ourselves if we're not able to catch ourselves in real time during a conversation, This is where, journaling can be really helpful if you journal about your complaints.
Monica:Mhmm.
Bethy:And then the most important part of that is going back and reading what you wrote. Yeah. Then you can identify kind of where you could shift to I statements and then write a response shifting the language to these 4 p's instead. Another way if if people aren't journalers, another way to do that is to record voice memos. Mhmm.
Bethy:Just record yourself talking it out, play it back, and hear yourself, and then trying it again with the 4 P's.
Monica:I am a journaler and I can visualize writing down my little rant, my screed, and then taking, I don't know, a colored marker or something and just circling every subject that isn't me in my complaint, just as a visual of how to gauge, you know, how much of this am I externalizing and how much of this am I focusing on the first person? And that is the first of our 4 P's, person. We're gonna focus on the first person. Let's keep going with the rest of these, so people can see how this all fits together. The second of these 4 P's is present, and in the sense of the present tense, we wanna focus on what's going on now in the current moment.
Bethy:Exactly. Yes. So once again, we're focusing on what we can change and wanting to laser in our venting to specifically what is changeable, which is the here and now. And so, we do have that tendency when we complain to loop back and talk about patterns or the past, and so we want to try to restrict ourselves to talking about the present. And the more specific we get with this, the better.
Bethy:So what has happened maybe today, this past week, or really kind of narrowing it down, if it's an ongoing problem rather than just saying all the time if there's any kind of specific period that it tends to happen, narrowing it down to that. So, for example, with our snacking example, rather than saying, oh, snacking has been this pervasive theme my entire life.
Monica:Mhmm. How often have I heard that statement?
Bethy:Right? When we're trying to position ourselves for change, instead focusing on this is an issue for me right now, and bonus points if we can get even more specific, this is an issue for me on the weekends.
Monica:Yeah. Narrowing the focus certainly can help us zero in on solutions where if I'm thinking like, yep, this has always been a problem for me my whole life. I mean, I I feel like I'm I'm defeated before I even begin. But as soon as you say, yep, this is mostly a problem on the weekends right now, my mind immediately starts thinking about, okay, what's happening on the weekends? What could happen differently on the weekends?
Bethy:Focusing on the person, we're focusing on I statements. Focusing on the present using the words right now can be really effective. This is the issue for me right now. That just automatically is a bit more hopeful and mobilizes us to do something.
Monica:Right. Yeah. I can really see what a strong pull that is to take a problem that's happening right now and expand it to include the past and maybe even the future. Instead of just, well, what's happening right now?
Bethy:Absolutely. And and I I I think it's important to note that talking about the past and the future, identifying patterns, gaining insight. Of course, as a therapist, I I very much value that deeper level work, and it definitely has its place. Just when we're talking about trying to get out of destructive complaining and trying to mobilize action, that is not the time to be delving into the past and future.
Monica:Right. Okay. So we've got person. We're gonna try to keep things in the first person. We're gonna try to keep things in the present tense.
Monica:And the third of our 4 p's is problem, by which you mean, we wanna break whatever this is down to the most pressing part of the problem. So what is the opposite of that?
Bethy:Yeah. So when we get into unproductive complaining, we tend to engage in gunnysacking, and this is that idea where just all negative emotions and unresolved issues that happen over time are triggered and then get dumped when we're upset about something, somewhat related. So if we take our work example where, we're having trouble with deadlines because we're getting interrupted, We might start talking about our coworkers and how they're not being mindful of our needs, and then that might grow into, this has happened at every job I've been in. This extends far beyond work and into my personal relationships too. It just grows and grows and grows, and the problem becomes, so much bigger than anything that we could tackle.
Monica:Yeah. It's a way of globalizing whatever the issue is in a way that makes it, again, just too big to solve. Right? Yes.
Bethy:And this is actually it is a classic cognitive distortion of overgeneralizing. This is a mind loop that our our our brains just naturally fall into that when we get distressed, when something gets triggered, our natural inclination is to grow it bigger, bigger, bigger. So if we're trying to stop that process, we wanna halt that and focus in on what is the most pressing problem or what is the most salient aspect of the problem. So we wanna break it down to as simple terms as possible.
Monica:This may be a little bit parallel to this, but I'm also, sometimes the problems that we are concerned about are really big are more than we can solve. And another really productive response to that, that I've seen other people model so beautifully is to recognize, right. I can't solve homelessness, but I have an idea for something that could relieve one little part of this in one small geographical area. So why not get started on doing that? But the danger is you, we immediately think like, oh yeah, but that's a drop in the bucket.
Monica:Is it even worth it? And the answer is yes, it really is worth it. So, right. Litter is a problem all over the world. We're drowning in a sea of trash and the oceans are full of plastic and everything.
Monica:But you know what? I do have the capacity to maybe focus on the problem of trash and litter in my neighborhood park where I walk every day.
Bethy:I love that. That was beautifully said. And really taking it down to, like, in this instance, what was the initial trigger? Yes. There it is attached to a much bigger issue that is too much to tackle.
Bethy:And let's go back to the beginning. Yeah. What was the original event issue that brought this all on? And just like you're saying with this with this example, it was the park. So let's let's start with the park.
Monica:Right. So we're going to try to keep the focus on the problem, the most pressing problem, or maybe the part of the problem that we have the most ability to impact. Exactly. And then finally, our 4th P stands for perspective. And this is sort of a perspective shifting technique where we step outside of ourselves and look at the problem as if it were happening to someone else.
Monica:And this one's a little tricky. Again, this really goes to the language we use because it's almost, in contrast to the first one where we make sure that we're speaking in I statements. Now we are actually purposely going to speak about our situation in the 3rd person as if it's happening to someone else. So explain how this works.
Bethy:Yeah. I think that this one, because of just what you described, you know, at first, we're we're trying to use I statements, and we're focusing on ourselves. Because this one is a pivot from that, I think it's helpful to do at the very end. So after we're able to talk about an issue from person, present, problem, focus, then the next step would be to take on, perspectives. And that one that one allows us to access our wise mind and remove the emotion from it.
Bethy:So, so far, we've stayed connected to the emotion, but we can simplify the problem further by simply taking an objective stance. So we can ask ourselves, okay. If if I were listening to someone talk about this issue, what would be my assessment of it, or how would I hear the problem?
Monica:Okay. So I'm venting to you.
Bethy:Oh, yeah.
Monica:I am never going to get my work done. I'm gonna be here all weekend because I can't get any work done here.
Bethy:So then from my objective standpoint, taking the emotion out of it and that that kind of extreme language of I'm never going to, I might say, she gets behind on some deadlines sometimes.
Monica:Mhmm. Which drains all of the sort of panic and despair out of it and helplessness out of it, and just kind of pins it back onto the mat as a, okay, here's a problem. Right. This one strikes me as another one that would be very fruitful to do on the page or maybe in voice memos, if you don't enjoy writing, because it might be easier again, you can see the part of speech that you're using, so you can take those I statements and actually play around with stating them in the 3rd person as if you were talking about someone that you care about, that you're invested in supporting, but see if you can state it as plainly and is non inflammatory way as possible.
Bethy:Great tip. Love that. Taking that objective stance or, like you're saying, imagine that it's it's a friend, somebody you care about, and you're listening to them. Mhmm. And so helpful to to be looking at the words.
Bethy:That's probably the the most helpful way to do it because they're easier to spot those emotional extremes. So looking you know, going through and looking for words like always, never, horrible, the worst, awful. You know, when we're looking for kind of strong extreme language that, that we want to soften soften or remove completely.
Monica:Packed nouns like struggle or emotion packed verbs like terrified or something, and challenge ourselves to replace them with a different noun, a different verb that conveys the same meaning, but with less intensity.
Bethy:Exactly. Yes.
Monica:Okay. So we have this process, which is really sort of language oriented. When we find ourselves in that complaint loop, where we have a problem, it's not going away. We're tired of complaining about it. Hearing us complain about it.
Monica:And we can use these 4 p's to start shifting our language, how we are expressing this problem. What is our payoff for, for going through this little exercise?
Bethy:What's great is that we've continued, to allow ourselves to vent in the process. So we're not pushing ourselves into something we're not ready for. Mhmm. But in doing that so, we can rephrase our upset in a way that is naturally geared toward highlighting several different possibilities for change. So if if we take our examples that we've been using, so, with the nutrition example.
Bethy:So if we use the 4 p's on that concern, we might end up with something like, I'm snacking more than I'd like on the weekends, which then it's not that huge of a leap to go to. So how can I change that? What could I try to change that?
Monica:I'm
Bethy:snacking more than I'd like on the weekends. There's a lot of different aspects. I mean, I'm sure when I see that, there's already several ideas that come to mind of things that could be tried.
Monica:Mhmm.
Bethy:It naturally leads us to start using our imagination and problem solving skills because we now have a very specific problem to try to address.
Monica:It's amazing how just walking through that process could shift our relationship to a problem and get revealed to us opportunities that we couldn't see before. This is, I can see why you were excited to share this because I can see how powerful this would be. And, and in the ways that we've rephrased our problems, we do end up with, with statements that naturally lead to that curiosity. So I'm getting behind on my deadlines when there are other people in the office. So what might I do to change that or to stop that?
Bethy:Excellent. Yes. There again, we, you know, we take this work example and we we use the 4 p's, and we get a statement, like, I'm getting behind on deadlines when others are in the office. The extreme emotion is taken out of it. The blame toward the coworkers is out of it.
Bethy:We've just got a simple issue.
Monica:You narrowed the focus.
Bethy:Yeah,
Monica:to a certain circumstance and a certain consequence. Right.
Bethy:And what's really cool is if we write that statement down, we could even go through and, using your idea, just highlight with different colors, different aspects of that sentence that could then branch off to different ideas. So I'm getting behind, getting behind. That's one thing. So, if we are falling behind, that's one area that we could focus on. Yeah.
Bethy:Deadlines. That's another area that's right for change.
Monica:Do we
Bethy:need your deadlines or right.
Monica:Are the deadlines unreasonable, or do we need to adjust the deadlines? Yeah.
Bethy:Right? Or working when others are in the office. Right. And then I love that. Oh, the mind map.
Bethy:Yeah. Then we can have all of these branches of, well, what could we do about that part of it of Yes. Working. Can we change our environment or how people interact with us in that environment? But there's a lot of different things that we could come up with, but only when we've got
Monica:Mhmm.
Bethy:This sentence that has us oriented toward it.
Monica:There's one final example that, that you offered that I want to get to, because I like the nuance that this offers. So we've, we've ended up with a phrase, a statement I'm upset when I see litter on the ground when I visit the park. So it's in the first person it's in the present tense. It's we focused in on the circumstance, but the question here we could say, so what can I do to reduce the litter? But you've also offered an alternate question, which is what can I do to reduce my upset?
Bethy:I love that you caught that, Monica. So great. Good. Right. It it it just goes to highlight and and that's really the purpose.
Bethy:It just goes to highlight that when we speak in the terms of the 4 p's, we can adjust the our focus on what is the subject of change here. And so in in this instance, yes, the subject of of change could be the litter on the ground, it could be visiting the park, or it could be on the upset itself that that's the target that we want to change.
Monica:And it doesn't have to be to the exclusion of other things that we might want to target, but it's another branch in the mind map. Right?
Bethy:Exactly. That's what's so great is, yeah, we have now. Now, we're not powerless. We're not helpless. We have options for agency.
Bethy:When we feel empowered that we actually can change something, and even better, when we feel empowered that we could change lots of things, and it's our choice what we change. That feels really good and makes it more likely, just like you were talking about in a previous episode, how important self efficacy is to the change process. Yeah. This is a way to very subtly shift language to build self efficacy.
Monica:I can see how powerful this would be, and I am excited about opportunities to, to try this out. So listeners, you have your marching orders, get out those journals, get out those colored pens, turn those journals sideways. So you have plenty of room for your mind map. And as you contemplate something that you feel like you've just been on repeat in terms of your venting, start with person, proceed to present. And I think it's important to do these in order for the reasons that we've discussed.
Monica:Proceed to problem, focusing on the most pressing aspect of the problem, and then finally inviting in an alternate perspective. And then you are ready to really start to see possibilities for where you have opportunities to shift your behavior, the circumstances, your response, in ways that can break you out of that unproductive loop. Bethy, how can we ever thank you for this?
Bethy:Oh, thank you so much for having me. It is such a joy to be here and to get to share this with you all. Thanks so much.
Monica:Alright. Till next time. I know that this episode is already a little longer than usual, but I do wanna take just a moment to sum up some takeaways for us. Number 1, complaining has its place. When it's done constructively, it can help us acknowledge and process pent up feelings and encourage self awareness and self compassion.
Monica:But repetitive, non constructive complaining, in addition to wearing out our friends' and our loved ones' patients, can actually increase our stress and hinder problem solving. Reorienting the language that we use to talk about the problem can help us see more possibilities for resolution or change. And, finally, if you don't have a trusted partner to help you reflect, journaling or recording a voice memo can help you spot and then reframe unhelpful language. As I said to Bethy, I'm almost looking forward to the next time that I catch myself in a complaint loop so that I can get out my colored markers and start mind mapping my way to more creative solutions. I'm excited about how much time and emotional energy this could free up.
Monica:If you find this helpful, I hope you'll let me and Bethy know by dropping us an email at hello at changeacademypodcast.com and maybe even sharing how you applied it. Check the show notes for links to that previous episode that Bethy mentioned where I was talking about self efficacy as well as a link to her book. She's even got a nice 30% discount code that you can use, and thanks for listening. Thanks for your emails and your voice mails, and, hey, thanks to Plant Based Chica for her very nice review that she posted on Apple Podcasts. She wrote, the podcast is amazing and informative.
Monica:I learn so much from listening. I listen to it while I'm driving, and I always find myself having conversations with the podcast. I love this so much because this is exactly what I want and hope the Change Academy to be about. Not a broadcast, but a conversation, something that actually moves you to respond in some way, to take action, to try something new. And I think today's episode gives us all a lot to work with.
Monica:Until next time.
Brock:Alright. Thanks, everyone. This has been the Change Academy podcast with Monica Rineagle. Our show is produced by me, Brock Armstrong. You'll find links to everything Monica mentioned in today's episode in our show notes as well as on our website at changeacademypodcast.com, where you can also send us an email or leave us a voice mail.
Brock:If you're finding this podcast helpful, we hope you'll subscribe or even better, give our show a rating or review in your favorite podcast app. Or best of all, share this episode with a friend or colleague you think would enjoy it. Now, here's to the changes we choose.