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You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
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Zach:You can mentor. On today's episode of the You Can Mentor podcast, we've got Benjamin Croshaw, director of member engagement for True Face and former creative director of high school ministry at North Point Community Church, and miss Brittany Coulson, director of content for True Face and licensed associate counselor specializing in young adult trauma. We're talking about their new book that is called The Path. We will be speaking about traditional approaches to discipleship and how they might fall short with Gen Z. We're talking about moving from performance to purpose.
Zach:There's a ton in here about identity and how to make teenagers feel safe and, cultivating environments that foster real transformation. We talk about unique challenges and opportunities in today's teens. It's such a good episode. Check out their book, The Path. You can find it, on Amazon or check out their ministry that is called True Face.
Zach:I think it is TrueFace.org. But, today's episode's fantastic. Share it with your volunteers. Share it with mentors. Give us a five star rating and check out True Face and the path.
Zach:Enjoy the listen. Welcome to the You Can Mentor podcast. This is your favorite mentor, Zach, and I am here with my friends, Brittany Coulson and Mr. Benjamin Croshaw. Guys, say hello today.
Brittany:Hello. Good to be with you, Zach.
Benjamin:Zach, thanks for, thanks for having us. And anybody out there who's watching a podcast about mentoring, thank you. That that's awesome.
Zach:Guys, I'm super excited about hearing, about you and what you do and your new book that is called The Path. Just talking about discipleship and man, anyone who can create a story that helps people make disciples, I'm just like, man, what a fantastic deal that is. So, so yeah. So why don't first off, we just talk about who you are? So we will go with you, Benjamin.
Benjamin:Yeah. Again, thanks for having us. Yeah. Benjamin Croshaw. I work with a ministry called True Face.
Benjamin:True Face has been around for a while. Some of you out there may have heard of it. Some of you, maybe a lot of you haven't, wrote a book called The Cure, several years ago that's had a huge impact on just a lot of people who felt stuck, reaching out to stuck Christians, trying to move them from this place of stuckness to a place of peace and freedom. And I started working a little bit with True Face and, working with our president, Robbie. And I was like, who's True Face for, Robbie?
Benjamin:And he said, yeah, we're, we're for middle aged stuck Christians. And I was like, that's me. It's perfect. So I was like, I'm, I'm in the perfect place. True Face is, does an incredible job of, connecting your identity to your theology, your view God as your creator, which informs your view of yourself.
Benjamin:But then also the part that really wrecked me was this idea of how it then transforms to authentic high trust relationships. And so I always say when I got to True Face, God and I were cool. It was just all of y'all that I had a problem with. And True Face was really instrumental in helping me uncross my arms and trust people with who I really am, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And, so, yeah, that's been my encounter with True Face.
Benjamin:I am I am True Face. So Britney, what about you?
Brittany:Yeah. So my name is Britney Coulson. I have been with True Face now for it's coming up ten years this year, which is crazy. I did not think I was staying longer than a month when I signed on. And I split my time right now between being the director of comp hunt for True Face, and then I'm actually a licensed counselor for twenty hours a week.
Brittany:I practice here in Scottsdale, Arizona. So that's how I split my time. And I actually encountered True Face when I was in college. So long before I started working here. I read The Cure, my senior year of college, and I thought that I really knew my theology and I was settled.
Brittany:Nothing's gonna rock me. I already figured it all out. Whoops. And I read The Cure, and I had never really understood the term sweetly broken before. But that's what it did for me.
Brittany:It showed me all these places. I didn't even realize I was trying to earn God's love. Even though I would say till I was blue in the face that you can't. And at the same time, open me up to this possibility of exactly what you were talking about, Benjamin, that maybe it could be different. Maybe I could actually feel free and loved.
Brittany:And yeah. And then several years later, came to work at Trucas. So then the winding road, but yeah, a little bit about me.
Benjamin:Yeah. Zach, we had our thirty year, True Face celebration. Sorry to jump in this past weekend. And, and it wa- a lot of people, they didn't use the term Britney used, sweetly broken. A lot of people talked about how True Face has has wrecked them, like, in the best way.
Benjamin:We kept hearing that a lot. It's just this message of grace, it wrecked them. So we get that a lot.
Zach:Man, anyone who has been in the game for thirty years, I just wanna take my hat off and just say kudos because that is hard to do. But, man, I actually, in doing my, doing some of my homework for this podcast, you got there book that I think one of your founders wrote that was called, Mr. Bo's Cafe. And one of my buddies swears by that book. And he does biblical groups every nine months, and every group, he has them pick up a copy of that book, and they talk about it because it is so hard to get over that that performance over just being accepted and being fully loved.
Zach:It is so easy in today's world just to believe that you have to earn God's love. You have to do more. And I just love that you guys are saying, well, maybe there's a different way. Perhaps that isn't the whole truth right there. So awesome job, guys.
Benjamin:Yeah. We do. We start a lot of our, we we're called nine month True Face Journey groups. We start with Bo's Cafe because that we really this is the precedent we're trying to establish with, with groups. And so for a lot of people, like reshaping your view of God, you know, it they're not even there yet.
Benjamin:They, they need to figure out if they can trust people around them enough to open up with who they really are. Talk about their past, talk about their story, and then begin to see if maybe, maybe based on the way I grew up, I was viewing God as just this angry toe tapping judge the whole time who was always just low grade mad at me. Well, we can, we can talk about that in the context of high trust relationships. And that's what Bo's Cafe does. So we start our journeys with Bo's Cafe to be like, Hey, let's just be real in this place.
Benjamin:You know, no need to show up and just try to act like you're somebody else. We're all just gonna be us.
Zach:Yeah. So, and, and, and that really is in today's world. I mean, miss Colson, you probably have a lot more experience with this than we do, just you being a, you know, a professional counselor. But I feel like kids today, teenagers, people who are younger, they are yearning for authenticity. They are yearning for someone to accept them for who they are.
Zach:They are sick and tired of having to pretend to be someone else. And any adult who is acting like that, they can see right through us. And so I feel like the Lord has us in this season where it's like the best way to connect with kids is through authenticity, is through being real and being just a complete open book. And if we can do that as mentors, then God tends to put his hand on the relationship that, that we have with our mentees. And so, can you just kinda speak some that, miss Brittney?
Brittany:Absolutely. I love that you called them out because who is it that this next generation values authenticity so much? Yeah. And they're so deeply searching for and yearning for who am I and can I be that person? I mean, that's that's an amazing question.
Brittany:I feel so encouraged every time I see them, like, really wrestling with that and, like, chasing after that. I wanna know who I am, and I wanna get to live out of that. And we think that the gospel has the coolest answer. It just has the most every other identity that we're gonna try to have in trying to know who we are is gonna be based on circumstances or our characteristics, our strengths, our relationships, and all kinds of things that can change and that we can't really stand on. They don't have that same stability because it could be different tomorrow.
Brittany:And yet Christ offers us this identity that doesn't change. It doesn't change depending on how well we're doing in the day. We could be absolutely a dumpster fire of a human on that day, or we could have just killed it and gotten that big promotion or whatever that next achievement is. And our identity is the same. And so I just I love and I have such a heart for this generation that that desires that.
Brittany:And just like every generation since Christ was here, we get to say, oh my gosh. Yes. Great question. And the gospel has the best answer. The answer that will actually let you rest in an identity instead of trying to keep an identity up or keep forming it or creating it or maintaining it.
Brittany:Instead, we get to just live in freedom of our identity, which is just I mean, is that not the sweetest?
Zach:Like, it's so backwards. Right? Because this world is all about performance, perform, perform, perform. You have to earn, earn, earn titles and this and that. And the two most important things, I think, for us is how we view God and how we view ourselves.
Zach:And, it's so opposite to what this world says, but I would just kinda love to hear, we'll start with you, mister Benjamin. Just how has traditional discipleship you know, how people have done discipleship maybe whenever we were kids or, you know, how has that fallen short?
Benjamin:Yeah. Man, I could talk for a while about this one. I'm gonna try to keep it concise, though, Zach. I know we only have how long your podcast typically goes. I think the, one of my first memories of my childhood is being my sister, who was about six years older than me, was placed in charge of me for a couple of hours.
Benjamin:So we went to a swing set, and she, at some point, was pushing me on the swing, she was like, Hey, you know you're going to hell, right? And I was like, What? And she's like, Yeah, because you're a And that was one of the first memories I have is being told that I was a sinner. Of course, it stuck with me because the consequences were so grave. And so, you know, that, that was really my first idea of who I am.
Benjamin:And then as, you know, I realized, well, I'm a sinner because of my sin, right? And thankfully, you know, God took care of that. And so put the belief in my heart, the trust in my life and the person of Jesus. And I was just told, trust and obey, for there's no other way to be happy in Jesus, right? So I went right back down into my sinner mindset, and I was like, man, I am going to do this.
Benjamin:I'm gonna white knuckle it more quiet times, early quiet time, late night prayer time. I went to a Christian college where we had chapel services, and I still went to church on a Sunday. So I was getting extra credit, FCA president, all this stuff. And I remember being out of college, and I went to this Bible study on Romans. You know, I'm still going to I work at a church.
Benjamin:I'm going to a Bible study. That's what you do. You go to Bible studies, right? And he was talking about Romans and started talking about identity. And it was like, oh my I heard about grace, but this was this was different.
Benjamin:And for people to understand, who who does God say you are? Brittany, I don't know the quote that farly. It's like, if we're we're trying to decide who we are, whose voice are we gonna listen to? Are we gonna listen to ours or our how does that quote go?
Brittany:I can look it up. Give me a moment. Yeah. It's something like, after all, if that's who God says we are, isn't he right? It's gonna be
Benjamin:I got the book right here. Sorry. Good.
Brittany:I do too. I'm gonna get there first. But I think Zach What if you truly here. What if you truly are who God says you are? After all, when our view of ourselves disagrees with God's view of us, who's right?
Benjamin:Yeah. Who's right? So the so the in this book right here, The Path, when Tao takes the leap with Jesus, takes this, this leap of trust, the first place Tao goes is to the table, to understand Tao's identity. And as opposed to going to the next chapter, which is all about the cave, which is trusting Jesus. You start by understanding who you are and who he says you are.
Benjamin:A chosen holy, dearly beloved son of a good loving God is a totally different way to start off in your walk with Jesus than the way I started off, which was, Hey, you're saved. Now trust and obey. Right? But to say, okay, what, what is my view of my creator? Because my view of creator is gonna shape my view of myself as His creation.
Benjamin:So that's why in the path, we started with identity. We didn't start with after the leap, we're we're gonna go to trust. Because in my own student ministry, working with with my students, if I start talking to them about trust, trusting God, well, how do I know if God can be trusted? You know, is God even relevant to my life? You're asking me to trust somebody I don't know.
Benjamin:So we start with identity, understanding who you are and who he is. When you understand that, you're a lot more prone to wanna trust somebody in that situation. So to answer your question, I think it, it, back in the day, Zach, it was guilt. It was trust, learn a lot more, the KMD model, no more, do better. And now the conversation of discipleship, in our opinion, it starts with identity.
Benjamin:It starts with you have a good and loving father, and you are a loved son or daughter of king Jesus who's a good father. We start there as opposed to starting with trust.
Zach:Well and that is what like, whenever I hear you say that, it just screams relationship. Right? Just relationship, relationship, relationship. It's not good for man to be alone. In the garden, we were connected to our God, and we were connected with other people.
Zach:All was right. And somehow, along the way, we've lost the connection, the relationship piece, and we've gone to the performance piece. And so I would love to hear from you, miss Brittney, just, like, in that shift of focusing in on identity based discipleship, I've been excuse me, Identity based mentoring. How can you help kids go from that performance to purpose and God's presence in that relationship piece?
Brittany:Yeah. I I love how you called that out, the relationship piece, Zach, because it makes me think about, you know, if you look at all of the literature in counseling, what matters more than your approach or your youth being a counselor or the demographic of who you're serving or any other factor is the relationship. It's the number one factor of whether or counseling will be effective is the relationship that the therapist and the client has with each other. And so when I sit down with a new client, with a new team, with a new young 20, whatever it is, the first thing we're gonna do is build relationships so that we can really trust each other. And I love that that is what that's what the Bible lays out in the first place, and we get to see it prove out in the literature too and in the research in this area of healing.
Brittany:So that's really cool. I think beyond really building that trusting relationship, which never goes away. Right? No matter how long we're mentoring, no matter how long we're walking with somebody, the relationship keeps being the number one conduit for God's truth and grace and love and protection. But I think one of the main ways that we help teens get unstuck and move forward is with our humility.
Brittany:When we can actually show up trusting God and others with who we really are, crazy transformation can take place because we're not saying, come join me. I figured it out. Let me explain to you how I did it. If you could just be like me, life will be great. But instead, we're actually inviting these teens into our lives, into our questions, our struggles.
Brittany:We're holding space when they have these really hard questions, and we're like, I don't know. That sounds really hard. How can we explore that together? That is such a safer place, for teens that are so longing for authenticity to be able to stand in that place of humility and saying, I don't know either. Or that's really hard for me too.
Brittany:You know, I think of my mentor is she's in her later years, sixties and seventies. And she so often I mean, she's so wise. She's been through so much life. I wanted to sit at her feet and learn from her. And every time we're meeting, she's sharing something that she's really struggling with or, something she's realizing that she thought she believed that it turns out she's really struggling to trust these days.
Brittany:And it makes me feel so safe with her. And so when we want to help teens get unstuck and move forward into purpose and learn about their identity, I think when we lead with that humility and the true honesty, not the, like, tying it up with a bow honesty where we're like, I had a hard time, but then I learned this thing, and now life is great. But really inviting teens and young twenties into, like, the messy, gritty stuff, that I think is how they actually can come alongside with us. More than any technique or book you can read, even the math, I think leading with humility and having that be the bedrock of your relationship is really where the the change happens.
Zach:What do you think, Benjamin?
Benjamin:Yeah. I mean, she said that way better than I would have said that. So I don't wanna add onto that. I do think to y'all's point, you know, they say we're in a, like a post Christian culture where I, you know, I grew up in the South in a Christian culture. I've even heard it called a post truth culture, right?
Benjamin:Where my 16 year old daughter will, you know, she has been trained to, to not believe things, you know, the fake news, you know, AI, you know, what, whatever. Even as her father, I was like, yeah, try that candy recipe on TikTok. See if it works, you know? I'm, I'm like trying to like train her not to believe everything that, that she sees. And so there is this sense of, of what is real and what, you know, what can be trusted.
Benjamin:And I was thinking about this podcast, last night. I drove one of my students and it, this is like the classic timeless move of mentorship, Zach. You know what I did? I went to his soccer match and he's the keeper. And so I sat on one end because the and, you know, they flipped at halftime.
Benjamin:I went and sat down at the other end, went down, hugged him afterwards. And, you know, there's like 14 people there, and I'm just watching him. And I'm like, oh my good you know, oh my goodness. Like, you didn't give any shots on goal in the first half. The second half, they were firing away at you.
Benjamin:I saw that one guy. He came in. I thought he was supposed to get a yellow card. Is he not supposed to get a yellow card? And we're just out there talking.
Benjamin:And it was like, you know what? That that's just real. And it's just I'm not like, you know, trying to fix anything. I'm not trying to I'm just like, dude, you're awesome. I texted him was like, man, you played so great.
Benjamin:You're such a good keeper. I'm so proud of you. And he's like, you know, thanks for coming out. I'm like, dude, that's that's what people are looking for still is, like, dude, I'm not gonna text you. I'm gonna go sit in these bleachers at your super long, boring soccer match, you know, because I just, I love you and I care about you.
Benjamin:And I think in, in student ministry, it's, I mean, I grew up where it was like, you know, the pizza party and everybody shows up and you got crazy games and they're like gonna sneak you, sneak around with this Jesus message. And you're like, woah, that's crazy. And it's like, nah, you know, that's like, those days are so over where it's like, who are you? Are you are you real? Can you be trusted?
Benjamin:And do you care about me? And that's almost the beginning and the end of the conversation right there.
Zach:And like, the lie is, as a mentor, you've gotta all have it all figured out. But just like was said, humility and putting your hands about, hey, look, I'm figuring it out. I might be older than you. I might know a couple more things. I might have experienced a couple more things, but by no means do I have it all figured out.
Zach:Come along with me in my journey as I try to figure it out. Come along with me as I try to figure out how to be a husband, how to provide for a family, how to follow Jesus, how to deal with hurts, how to deal with when I thought life would go this way and it went that way. And that is what our kids so desperate desperately want. If you as a mentor can just show up and if you can just try your best to be an example of someone who follows Jesus through thick and thin, And if you can allow them into your life and say, hey, I am not going to be perfect, but watch me as I try my best. That is what these kids want.
Zach:And that's why I think that this book is so good, Just to kind of, you know, put a spotlight on it, the path, what if the way of Jesus is different than what you thought? And I I just love how you take it in in story form, and you talk about identity. You talk about trust. You talk about the table, the cave, the dark season, the wound, and then my the gathering. And I just love that.
Zach:Just how you guys and and it's so entertaining. It is such a good read. And I'm just so excited, for people just to, you know, be able to use this as they, spend time with kiddos. But sorry for that pop you know, sorry for that plug. But one thing as the two of you guys were talking, one of my favorite things is how to create a safe environment where kids feel loved, where they don't just hear, but they they feel auth authenticity.
Zach:They feel like they matter because that is so attractive. So tell me just like, what are some things that you guys have seen in regards to creating environments that facilitate, change? We'll start with you, Brittney.
Brittany:Yeah. So it's funny. The first thing that comes to mind is, provide food. Eating around a table, actually eating together, there is legitimately something that creates safety of, like, eating and drinking and talking while you're doing it creates that that feeling of being able to let down a little bit. And so it sounds really simple, but I think and and that we can provide a meal, or or share a meal, share a coffee, whatever it is, it really does help.
Brittany:I think about our own small group that we host of 20 and teens, and just feeding everybody together is so important. And the other piece that I really think about is asking really good questions. And by really good questions, I really don't mean the ones that lead you're trying to lead them somewhere. But when we can genuinely, like, really curiously ask them questions to know them and to find out what they think about things, Not as part of a lesson, but to to show, like you were just saying, Zach, to actually show, like, I really care about not just getting to know you, but about what you think about this. I value that.
Brittany:I wanna know. I wanna understand. That's why we have the question on the front of the book. That's why all of our chapters in the path start the teaching section with a question because questions can just open people up in such a new way, especially if they are those really just curious questions about, you know, what did you think about that? You know?
Brittany:What really stood out to you in there? What was important to you about that? Oh, you love that book. You love that TV show. What is it that really just, like, sticks with you in that?
Brittany:Those are, like, really simple, maybe more shallow questions all the way down to questions about, like, who who do you think that you are? Where do you get that from? Or what are some of the things that you've been told that have really stuck with you in a in a hard way? What are some of those repeating messages that come up for you? Where do you think that came from?
Brittany:Obviously, I start to go towards some more of my counseling questions than that. But those are questions that I ask my friends too And then I ask people that are not like my professional clients. They're just mentees of mine. And so those those are two things that come to mind. First for me is food and questions and genuinely curious questions.
Brittany:So Yeah. Benjamin, what do you think?
Benjamin:Yeah. No, Zach. Go ahead. You had your hand up.
Zach:So, yeah. I have my hand up just like school. Hey, guys. So that's awesome that you said that. So for those of you guys who don't know, I grew up without a dad around, you know, had kind of a crazy life a little bit and didn't know what a family looked like until I was in my mid twenties.
Zach:And that's when I got a girlfriend and she invited me over to her house for dinner and just a healthy family, an amazing, mom and dad. And there was a bunch of siblings. And I sat down at the table and they are all just having conversations and asking really good questions and how, I mean, they're sitting at the table for hours. And I'm sitting there trying my hardest to act normal, but inside I am freaking out because I'm like, oh my gosh, this is what family is. Like, my gosh.
Zach:Like, these people are making eye contact and they're asking really good questions. And I could just see everyone at the table felt like they were so valued and so important. And who does not like that? Right? So there's so much power at the table.
Zach:There's so much power in asking really good questions because you are saying, hey, I'm going to stop everything and I'm important thing, my attention on you because you matter. And that does something to a kid, especially if a kid hasn't ever experienced that. So I'm I mean, Jesus knew what he was doing whenever he had meals with people. And, there's a lot of power towards inviting their mentees to sit at their table. So what do think, Benjamin?
Benjamin:Yeah. I think, the first thing that came to my mind was what Brittany said about asking questions where people feel, they feel seen and, and heard and listened to. I think that's such a big deal. I think too, I heard a counselor talking to a group of, parents about teenage mental health. And she basically, I really am gonna summarize this.
Benjamin:She basically said to parents, like, better check yourself first. You know, it was like, you know, you wanna have a conversation with your teenage son or daughter about mental health. Like, you need to check your own mental health first, right? And I think if we believe that walking with Jesus starts with identity and understanding who he is, who you are, who he says you are, Well, then as someone who is in a conversation with the next generation, I better check myself. Right?
Benjamin:I better, I better, you know, know that my identity is rooted and grounded. Well, that's a struggle. So to Brittany's point, I I'm open about stuff like that, you know, like when I have a tendency to wrap my myself up in it. But man, there's no part of me that goes into student ministry thinking, I gotta be cool. I gotta be the mo- I mean, that's like, they can see right through that.
Benjamin:It's just like, I just am me and doing my best to be secure in who God made me to be in this moment with these students. And that's, that's me checking myself before I lead them down a road of identity, right? Our student ministry is called sons and daughters. So every week, say you were sons and daughters of King Jesus, and he's a good father. And to Brittany's point, this is the identity that can't be stolen, lost, achieved, earned.
Benjamin:Is, it is there. Well, if I'm gonna talk about that and they don't see that in me, then we got a problem. So I do think part of that creating that trusting, kind of environment is walking in was a security in my own identity, which allows me to be known, which allows me to be real, which allows me to be imperfect and not have it all figured out. And then one last thing I was thinking about that. I had a guy, a young, cool student pastor at a big church ask me, you know, Hey, what are your thoughts on some things?
Benjamin:Was like, me? You know, I'm old. I'm at a, I got 30 students, you know, half of them are like my nieces and nephews. So, but I think because I've been doing student ministry for like three fifty years, he was like, let's ask the old guy for some wisdom. And I said, one of the things that I just try to do with my students, and I have a lot of students, you know, adopted.
Benjamin:A lot of them came from traumatic pregnancies with, you know, a mom on drugs or something like that. So, we, you know, we, we, we're a, we're, we're a band of misfits, so to speak, right, which I love. But the guys, I, I say their name and give them a hug. And the girls, I'll say their name and give them a high five. And it's not like weird or anything like that.
Benjamin:I'm just like, there are students in my student ministry who do not have dads, like a, a couple of them, or they have dads who don't just engage with them. And so I am saying people's names and I am like high fiving the girls and hugging some of the guys. Because it's like, no, you're gonna give me a hug, you know? So, that's another thing is just like letting them know I know their name. And I'm like, you know?
Benjamin:Yeah.
Zach:Well, Anne, I think also as I hear you guys talking about, you know, making them feel seen and safe places and all of that stuff, which is just like I mean, I just love that stuff. But also, one thing is, controlling your reactions. Right? So like if you're, hey, how's it going today? How's it going in school?
Zach:How's it going in this and that? And they say something that's kind of shocking. Right? Controlling that response, responding with curiosity instead of like, oh, no, no, no, Don't do that. Right?
Zach:Like fear based. Right? And so it's like, oh my gosh. Why don't you tell me more about that? Right?
Zach:Like that's one of my favorite questions. And, like, kids can, like, kids can tell me whatever they want, and I won't be shocked. And to watch their response when they see me not respond and just be like, oh my gosh, your hair is orange. Tell me more about that. Right?
Zach:Or like, oh my gosh, you got in a fist fight or man, you da da da. Tell me more about that. And then they're like, oh wow, like maybe, maybe I'm not going to get in trouble. Maybe I'm not going to get yelled at. Maybe this is a safe place.
Zach:Right? And then every so often, they like, hey, tell me why you, you know, got a tattoo. Right? And when you ask that, tell me more about that, really the why behind it is actually pretty powerful and cool, or they're saying something with their actions. So I don't know.
Zach:That's just kinda my 2¢. But
Brittany:Yeah. That's sweet, doc. It it makes me think. I often have clients that they need to say usually, it's, like, many sessions in, and they're like, so I haven't told you this yet. And I usually just tell them, oh, I'm always so excited for these because there's always gonna be something good at the end of that And in kind of a joking way, but not, I'll tell them, like, you can't out crazy this room.
Brittany:Like, these four walls and, like, this like, I've heard I've heard everything. Like, you're not gonna shock me. And even the follow-up after they make their confession that they tell me about this thing that they've been afraid to mention, checking in with them, I'm like, can you notice that I'm right here? I haven't moved away at all. Does that then freak me out?
Brittany:Can you act can you feel how grateful I am that you shared that with me? And checking in with them of, like, when we're trying to have this big response from people or maybe trying to shock people or we're expecting that they're gonna have some big response to that we got in a fist fight or whatever it is. Helping them to notice, like, hey. I'm not having that reaction. What is that like for you?
Brittany:Can be really helpful too. Because so often, that's where our shame comes in. Right? Shame is almost always relationally transmitted. So we had some feeling, somebody else in our life was not so chill with that.
Brittany:And so they communicated to us that it's not okay for you to feel that way. And so a lot of our work with with mentees, or be with some clients, with friends, whoever, is helping them to have that experience and notice not doing that thing. I'm not I'm not shaming you. It's okay for you to feel angry. It's okay for you to feel scared or sad or be just, like, absolutely losing it and sobbing your face off and right here.
Brittany:And so I love that you call that out, Zach, because having that calm, present response is often that is often the healing.
Zach:Yeah. And and, I mean, one of my favorite parts about the book purpose? And what if Jesus loves you just as you are? And what if I do too? Right?
Zach:Like, oh my gosh. Like if that's not unconditional love, if that's not like you were made on purpose for a purpose, like you matter, I see you, then I don't know what it is. But, I mean, I I just like, that's a consistent kind of theme throughout, the path that I just love. Okay. I got one more question.
Zach:Okay. And I don't know the answers, because, you know, I work with mentors now, not not necessarily the mentees so much, but in just today's, you know, wild society of cell phones and TikTok and Instagram and all of these things. And just can you and we'll start with you, Benjamin, just like, what are some, challenges? What are some opportunities? Just kind of tell us what you're seeing out there in regards to discipling the next generation.
Benjamin:Well, I do think that some of the things that we have tried to maybe offer up through the years that, maybe just didn't seem as appealing, they now become that much more appealing because of all the distractions and all the information and all the technology. For example, face to face conversation, human to human interaction, right? Like what I'm talking about high fiving, hugging people. It really now there is, I think, maybe more so a freedom with this next generation to be more real about just stuff because now there's, you know, there's the information all around them. So some of the, you know, some of these like core ideas that are, are timeless are almost becoming even more valuable because of all the distractions and, and all the stuff that's around them.
Benjamin:So for example, I mean, I, I think I maybe grew up in a family where, you know, I got hugged a lot and I didn't have social media. And so, you know, going and having face to face conversations, it really wasn't that big of a deal to me because what else was I gonna do with my life? Right? I'm just around people all the time because I don't have anything else to do. Where now this is like, this is a, this is a premium.
Benjamin:I mean, my, my daughter's county, there are a lot of people, they just do school virtually, or the Forsyth Virtual Academy. So there's not even, there's not even a given that that's hav- happening at school. So if I can offer somebody a human interaction with a face to face conversation where I'm looking you in the eye, I know your name, I care about you, I'm listening to what you say. I'm secure in who I am so I can approach you with a sense of curiosity. I'm not trying to fix you.
Benjamin:I'm not trying to change you. I'm just here. I mean, this sounds like crazy, but this is like rare stuff these days. Right? So I'm bringing something to the table that is becoming more and more, I guess, unique, particularly to the next generation where, where, you know, there's so much around them that they can lose themselves in.
Benjamin:Because I can get, if I'm a, you know, a teenager, I can give, have my identity affirmed anywhere. I can go find a digital community or whatever to affirm whatever I want, even if I say I don't need people. So I'm gonna go to a virtual community to affirm that I need people. Right? But there is still something to be said with let's look each other in the eye and let's have a conversation.
Benjamin:So I think we just offer in the good old goodness of human to human being in the, in the physical presence of each other. I don't know. Brittany, what do you think?
Brittany:I was actually thinking the same thing, Benjamin, of I was thinking about how knowledge and information is so available now. I mean, that's it's almost worthless. Like, knowledge is almost worthless because you can get it anywhere at any time. You're always connected to your phone, like, learning things like that, the whole, like, knowledge plus behavior model. Well, you can get knowledge whenever you want it.
Brittany:You don't need to retain it. But that means that experience matters so much more. Of getting to actually experience something different, expe like, so many of us grew up learning a lot about God without necessarily experiencing him. And now that's flipping where what you were saying, Benjamin. The desire for experience to actually live something out is so strong, and that is actually what a relationship with God is about.
Brittany:And so as we can call that out and create experiences for people to have something different happen in their life, it's so powerful. And I think we all I mean, we all know a lot of the dangers and difficulties with social media. I see it I see it in all my teens that they are just so surrounded by what everybody else is doing. I mean, no matter what, it would hurt in middle school if you weren't invited to a slumber party, but you might not find out about it. Now you're gonna get seven Snapchats about it, and you're gonna see a story about it, and you're gonna like, you know all the time how you aren't included.
Brittany:You know all the time what you weren't invited to and what you're not doing. You were having a great Thursday night, but then you found out that other people were having a better Thursday night. Now you're having not as good of a Thursday night. And so the more that we get to talk about what belonging really looks like, what value really looks like, what identity, secure identity feels like, it becomes so much more powerful because we're surrounded by we're just, like, pulled back and forth in all of these places. And I think that what you were saying, Benjamin, it it almost makes me think of, like, when you you're in some type of addiction or something like that, and you get to the end and you're like, oh, I just so deeply desire something different.
Brittany:A lot of teens are actually have been born into that of like, oh, there's so much and there's so much social media and there's so much influence. Ugh. I just want something different. I want something that feels real. I've, you know, eaten fast food for the last seven months, and I just really want a home cooked meal.
Brittany:It's that same kind of feel. So, yeah, those are some of my thoughts, but mainly really similar to you, Ben.
Benjamin:Yeah. And it sounds, Zach, like that's what you encountered as a 20 when you went to your girlfriend's family's house. You're like, wait, woah, woah, this is different from what I've been experiencing or what I haven't experienced. And I think that's, you know, those relationships, that's, that's timeless as far as being woven into who we are. And, you know, that's why with the path, you know, we, we immediately decided to create an experience guide so that groups of people could go through this together and not just ask questions and discuss, but actually do some stuff, like to get their body moving, move around a little bit, move from the left side of the brain into the body, into the right side of the brain and engage that relationally.
Benjamin:And so I, you know, in my student ministry, like half of them are readers. And then the other half, they wouldn't read a book, you know, if you threatened their life, you know? And so that's why we have these animation videos, these beautiful, you know, under five minute animation videos where people can watch them, and then we can talk about and discuss them. So it's not like, hey, did you read your chapter? Did you read the chapter?
Benjamin:It's like, hey, let's watch the chapter in a beautiful, powerful way together. Then let's not just talk about it, like, you know, we would say in typical small groups, then let's do something. For example, one of the things Britney created in Wound when we talk about shame is these ideas of writing down on these dry erase boards, these core lies that you believed about yourself, you know, like she said, usually being transmitted relationally, speaking truth over each other's lives and, and being able to erase that and replace that with the truth of what God says about you. Well, I read that, and I envision students doing that. And that's, to me, like, more powerful than envisioning them sitting beside a a lake and reading this book.
Benjamin:Now for some of them, they have to digest that information solo at first. They're not ready for the group experience. But I do think the Path Experience Guide has the potential to be even more impactful than the book, because people are gonna have the opportunity to live it out relationally and experience it relationally with their bodies.
Zach:Well, that's what's so cool. Right? Like, so if you're a mentor, if you're, you know, if you're a part of a mentoring not for profit and you have lots of kids, like, what a great resource, this book is just to give the mentor something to help facilitate these kinds of discussions. Yeah. I it is such, it is such good stuff.
Zach:It's it's important. It is, so powerful. And the fact that you guys have created something that's so easy for us to use to help start those, important conversations is just fantastic. So tell us how to find all of that stuff. Tell us how to get in, how to, you know, contact y'all and how to learn more.
Brittany:Yeah. So you can go to TruFace, that's just trueface,likeitdown,.org/thepath, and that has everything for the path. They have experience guide, the animations, all the links are there. It's also all on Amazon for the book or for the experience guide. Those are the easiest places.
Brittany:We're on social media and stuff like that, but if you want the quickest link to it, I would send you to that trueface.org/
Zach:It's awesome. Guys, thank you so much for today. Thank you for your your work, and thank you for this book and just for all of the time that you guys spent helping us make disciples by way of mentoring. I'm so thankful for y'all. And today was just fantastic.
Zach:So thanks, guys. Really appreciate it. Thank you.
Benjamin:Appreciate it, Mia.
Brittany:Thanks, Zach. Yeah. Thanks for having us on. Sure.
Zach:Of course. Hey. Thank you, listeners. Please contact The Path and find out more. And remember, You Mentor.
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