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Welcome to In-Orbit, the fortnightly podcast exploring how technology from space is empowering a better world.
[00:00:00] Dallas Campbell: Hello, and welcome to Outer Orbit. In these short bonus episodes, we will be continuing the conversation from our main episode, focusing in on a particular topic or a particular point of view, and today, we are joined by Ellie Sleightholm, delving into the Space Placements in Industry Program, otherwise known as SPIN. Ellie is currently Head of Software Developer Relations at Marqo, but she started her career in space with a SPIN placement with a company called S& AO, and we're going to be breaking down the SPIN program and exploring a little bit more about placements from the inside.
Let's start with Marqo. Let's start with where you are now. So Marqo, a company that lots of people won't have heard of. So just very briefly explain if people are coming to this fresh, what Marqo is.
[00:00:53] Ellie Sleightholm: Yeah, so Marqo is actually in the tech and AI industry and we are an end to end vector search engine. So basically we work with customers who essentially have a lot of data and they want to search through that data effectively and kind of retrieve relevant results. So an example that we typically use is e-commerce. So on websites, if people are wanting to do a bit of shopping, we essentially are the search engine behind what users would input into the search bar and then we would give the user, you know, relevant results to their query.
[00:01:25] Dallas Campbell: So is Marqo basically a bit like Google?
[00:01:27] Ellie Sleightholm: I think it's a search engine in itself, but there's kind of a lot that goes behind the search engine, quite technical stuff and we essentially handle a lot of the complicated stuff for users. So a user, say if they had, you know, a shop and they wanted to advertise all that online, they couldn't really use Google to do that, they would have to use a search engine and that's where we would come in and basically they would just use Marqo and then that would be their entire search engine on their website, done for them. That's pretty much what we do.
[00:01:56] Dallas Campbell: And here you are on a space podcast. What has all this got to do with the space industry?
[00:02:01] Ellie Sleightholm: So, well, before Marqo, I was actually in the space industry for two years. Previously, before that, I did the SPIN scheme, which is why we're here talking about it and yeah, kind of have been numerous outreach projects within the space industry itself. I think where I am now with the tech and AI industry, I absolutely love it and there is so much, so many applications that our software can be put towards and one of those is, for example, satellite imagery and so, I find the tech that I'm working on really cool and a big part of my role is basically educating others about the areas in AI machine learning, you know, not just about our software, but about the tech that goes behind our software and so that in itself helps, yeah, educate others about some really cool areas in STEM.
[00:02:46] Dallas Campbell: So let's talk about the SPIN program, the Space Placement In Industry. So just tell us about your journey. How did, so you went from undergraduates? So just, did you see an advert in the paper? I mean, what happened? Just take us through the, take us through the journey.
[00:03:01] Ellie Sleightholm: Yeah, so I was studying maths at uni, it was my second year of university and I really wanted to do an internship. I had a bit of a not typical way into the SPIN scheme. I essentially had a software engineering role lined up just for a normal kind of, well not normal, a non space company and it was the year of COVID and COVID cancelled that internship and I really wanted to do a remote internship, never really thought I could get into the space industry, came across the SPIN scheme just by Google really, I think I was typing in space placement, space internships and it cropped up and then I applied for an internship there. Very fortunate to get it and like I said, in the previous episode, I'm very glad that my other internship got canceled because I just had the best time on the SPIN scheme.
[00:03:49] Dallas Campbell: So what actually is it? What does SPIN do? Like, how does it work?
[00:03:53] Ellie Sleightholm: Yeah. So SPIN stands for, as we've said, Space Placements In Industry scheme and the idea behind it is it's partnered with Satellite Applications Catapult and the UK Space Agency, so they manage the scheme itself and the idea behind it is they get an amount of funding and they distribute this funding to different space companies in the UK. So for example, I was working for a startup called SNAO, which was in atmospheric observations. But as we saw in the previous episode, Astroscale, they also do the scheme and so the idea behind it is, it's essentially getting undergrads and basically anybody that's enrolled as a student, so you could be an undergrad, you can be a PhD student, and it provides them with the opportunity to do an internship, yeah, in the space industry over the summer for eight weeks.
[00:04:37] Dallas Campbell: How keen are the companies to do this? Because presumably the companies have to sign on to this scheme as well. Like, what's in it for them? Like, why do they want to hire you? I mean, obviously you're brilliant. That's a given.
[00:04:49] Ellie Sleightholm: I think it goes kind of towards training people, and a lot of the internships, we, you know, people come in, my previous company we had internships there through the SPIN scheme themselves and people come in, we train them up on a particular, you know, whether it's software, hardware, or even if it's just a general kind of part of the company and hopefully the idea is they then join us for a full time role. I think companies are keen to do it because they want to bring more people into the space industry. The year that I did it, there was 50 of us and I saw a picture of the SPIN scheme this year and I mean, I'm not entirely sure all the numbers, but I think it was over a hundred SPIN placements this year. So it's incredible to see it, you know, growing, even further.
[00:05:34] Dallas Campbell: So companies benefit because they get, I mean, these are paid as well, these aren't just, so companies get it because they're getting good people in to work for them and hopefully to stay on and work for the company and also you benefit because you're getting lots of amazing training in the field as it were. So you did your eight weeks. Is that right? Is it eight weeks? Did you say eight weeks, eight weeks on the job?
[00:05:54] Ellie Sleightholm: Eight weeks.
[00:05:55] Dallas Campbell: And did you stay at the company?
[00:05:56] Ellie Sleightholm: Yeah, so first point, I absolutely loved it. I remember actually having a meeting with Kathie Bowden at the time and it was just her catching up and seeing how the program was going, and I literally remember, like, I could not stop smiling in the meeting and I still can't stop smiling when I, you know, talk about the spin scheme, because it was just incredible. I had the most incredible eight weeks. I learned so much and I met some incredible people as well and then, so the company I applied for actually, they weren't hosting graduate positions afterwards. It was a very small startup and so there wasn't the, you know, option to do that. I was in my second year at the time. So, and I went on to do two more years, but interestingly, I actually applied for the SPIN scheme again, the kind of final, in my final year, and instead of getting the SPIN program, the company approached me and said, do you want a full time job? So I was fortunate enough to work in the space industry for two years, yeah, after I graduated as well.
[00:06:54] Dallas Campbell: And just, so you've been through this process and for you, I mean, you said you were smiling, just thinking about it. What was it about it that just appealed to you? Or what did you love about it? Was it learning new stuff? Was it the people or a mixture of lots of different things?
[00:07:08] Ellie Sleightholm: I think it was a mixture of a few different things. I am very much someone who loves learning and I just get excited when I learn new things and so I was continually learning throughout my placement. It was obviously a little bit more challenging because it was remote because of COVID and you know, when I did go into full time role after that, I was so excited about it remotely and I can only imagine what people, how people are experiencing it, you know, non remote and in person and how excited they must be. So yeah, I think the amount of stuff I learn was incredible. I got to code, I love coding, which is nice again, because you realise that there's so many different domains within the space industry and so I went down the software route, met some incredible people. My supervisor, Dirk, he is, was honestly like, I'm still in contact with him now, one of the best supervisors I've ever had and yeah, I learned a lot about the space industry through him and just like general, you know, working life. So yeah, there's loads of different things that made me enjoy the experience.
[00:08:05] Dallas Campbell: If you don't mind me asking, how old are you now? Where are you? I'm just trying to work gauge. So you're not back at university?
[00:08:10] Ellie Sleightholm: 24.
[00:08:10] Dallas Campbell: Are you sort of continuing education? Where are you now? Or are you going to stay in the sector?
[00:08:16] Ellie Sleightholm: Yeah, I mean, obviously I've got a master's in mathematics and I'm someone who obviously loves learning, but what I've realised is I love learning through industry and that's kind of an experience that, because I was considering doing a PhD, after I finished uni. I'm glad I didn't because I just love the learning aspect in the industry and part of my role now with Marqo is teaching people and so I love learning and then sharing that with other people and educating others as well.
[00:08:45] Dallas Campbell: I think that's really good to hear. I think people feel like, oh, crikey, I've done my masters. I then therefore have to go on and do my PhD and actually this idea of working in industry, I'd love to see it become more just the normal way of doing things. From where you are, is it becoming more normal? How do you see, I mean, with your peers, for example, or other people that you know doing similar things, or are they off doing PhDs?
[00:09:08] Ellie Sleightholm: Yeah, I think a lot of my friends kind of jumped from masters to PhD and a lot of them have said that they wish they had spent time in industry more because you know, you learn how to manage a nine to five role and kind of, a PhD can get very overwhelming because you seem to be working constantly and so, yeah, a lot of my friends have seemed to have gone into PhDs, wish they'd spent time in industry. But then I have friends who have gone into industry and realised that a PhD is what they need to get the job that they want. So, yeah, it's a mixed bag really. But I think, yeah, a lot of people jump because they've enjoyed uni and they don't want to leave the uni experience so they then go on to do a PhD, so yeah.
[00:09:50] Dallas Campbell: Great. Well, listen, thank you so much for joining us again and just very briefly, I'm interested in what your future aim of direction of travel is. Like, where do you want to end up in 10 years time?
[00:10:02] Ellie Sleightholm: Yeah. Oh, that's a big question.
[00:10:04] Dallas Campbell: I know, sorry.
[00:10:05] Ellie Sleightholm: I think, like I said, I absolutely love learning and so the role that I'm in now is, honestly, the most perfect role for me because I get to learn, I get to code and I get to then share that with others, and it's part of the reason I did my YouTube channel as well. So in 10 years, I'd love to just, you know, be inspiring more people to get into the STEM industry, into the space industry, into the tech industry and providing those free, accessible, you know, easily accessible resources to help people on their journey to, yeah, to whatever career that they want.
[00:10:36] Dallas Campbell: Let's do, let's do a plug for your YouTube channel. So you're teaching maths and physics to what sort of standard, what level we?
[00:10:43] Ellie Sleightholm: Yes. It's a kind of like a bit of a mix really. Yeah, a bit of everything. I kind of, I try and make it fun. It's literally just my name, it's, yeah, Ellie Sleightholm on YouTube. I try and make it a bit fun, so I've done a series on like, solving maths in movies, for example and just diving into some maths that we see in movies, but I've got a lot more videos planned.
[00:11:04] Dallas Campbell: Hey, it's been an absolute pleasure. Listen, thank you for stopping by and sharing your story and I hope, you know, other students, undergraduates or master's students, whoever is listening to this, they will find out about SPIN because I think it is a fantastic initiative and long may it continue.
[00:11:19] Ellie Sleightholm: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:11:20] Dallas Campbell: Ellie, a pleasure.
[00:11:21] Ellie Sleightholm: Thank you. Thank you so much.
[00:11:23] Dallas Campbell: To. Hear future episodes, be sure to subscribe on your favourite podcast app and to find out a bit more about how space is empowering industries between episodes, why not visit the Catapult website, or join them, or me, on social media.