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Welcome to The Legacy Investor Podcast, where we talk money, investing, business, and what it means to leave a legacy for generations to come. Hosted by Cameron Philgreen, this show dives deep into the intersection of entrepreneurship, investing, and legacy-building, all while keeping God at the center. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting out, you'll discover how to align your financial journey with your faith, grow wealth with integrity, and create a lasting impact for generations to come. Join in, as we explore practical strategies, real-world stories, and timeless biblical principles to help you honor God in every step of your journey.
One of my favorite episodes I've ever done on the Legacy Investor Podcast, the Turner method is what I call this one, the Mike Turner method. You got Mike Turner on the pod today. I'm learning guys in this episode right alongside you. We didn't talk off air about this method or what he's kind of figured out with buying mobile homes and then bringing I'm not even gonna share. I'm gonna let you learn about it from him. But really amazing way to get started in real estate. I think if I was a beginner in real estate, I would be taking Mike's course and putting this into action. I just think it's really powerful and a great way to stay out of debt, but also invest in real estate and also help people. like it's incredible real estate is amazing because everyone has a fundamental need and a right to housing to shelter to a roof over their head to safety and you as real estate investors we get to provide that for people and help people and part of the beauty of what mike does is he helps people have home ownership for very little out of pocket and he makes it very affordable for people while also you know making money for him and his partners his investors So really, really cool episode today. Super excited about this one. I'm going to be posting about this and trying to spread the word about Mike and this episode as much as I can. So I'm going to stop talking now. Let's hop into it with Mike Turner. See you guys. All right, guys, welcome back to The Legacy Investor with Cameron Filgreen. I'm here with Mike Turner. He has a new form of real estate that I've never heard of before. I'm excited to hear about this pension fund that he's got going. And I'm just going to be learning about it right alongside you guys. I have no idea what this conversation is going to consist of. So we're just going to get to know Mike. Let's get going. So Mike, where are you at in the world? And tell us your story. 20 years in real estate. Catch us up to speed. I grew up on an island in Alaska. My folks moved up there in the 60s. That's where I grew up. Eventually, I got off the rock and went into college and did things. I had no real intention of doing anything real estate investing at all. I was a ship captain and doing stuff along with that. Got married, going to seed didn't seem quite as exciting as it used to. And I read a book, right? I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad 20 some years ago. And I was like, wow. And it got me seeing real estate and business in a whole new light. And I just wanted to figure out a way to do that. I was living in California at the time. I had actually had bought a home there. It was doing really well in value. And so, but I wanted to get more properties at that point. I started looking at other markets, did a lot of research back then and stumbled upon Boise, Idaho. So came up to Boise, Idaho, bought a rental and a fixer upper and haven't really looked back. That was, you know, around 2004 and, you know, and pretty wild journey from that. So essentially since making that move, I haven't had a W-2 in all that time. I've somehow found a way to make enough from real estate. I retired my wife in 2009. As soon as I had the kids start coming along, I was able to figure that out. I've had a really cool journey. On paper, it looks amazing because I've taken my kids all over the world and I've done all these really cool things. I've created a nonprofit in my area that's helped donate over $600,000 to other local nonprofits in my area and using my entrepreneurial skills to do that. All that was great. The underlying problem was going on all during that time. is I had a lot of financial insecurity in the sense that I never knew what I was going to make next week, next month, next year. 100%. Yeah, right. So I would do these things that would often make me a good chunk of money, which was great, but I didn't know when the next one was going to come. And you can do a lot of different sales pipelines and funnels and different things in business, any kind of business, and try to get that more consistent. But as long as you're doing one-time sales, you're always going to be hunting. You're always going to be having to go for the next sale. You know, you start to kind of like get burned out after a while doing that. And so I was actually going to get out of real estate altogether in 2019. I was actually going to create a travel company. I had this idea of like, I had done a lot of traveling. So I was like, oh, I'll do this cool corporate travel business idea. And I basically started it, launched it, booked a couple venues where I wanted to do that in January 2020, right before, you know, COVID meltdown. So I was like, Oh, and so I went back to real estate at that point. And for a short period of time, because during the, the kind of the COVID period, real estate went nuts, right? Everyone thought it was going to crash, but no, it went the opposite direction, low supply, a lot of demand. And so I was flipping homes back then. And I was, I had my best year ever in 2021. And And I was like, sweet. Okay. I'm doing good. We're got house paid off money in the bank. Things look really good. And then 2022 comes along and you know, there's a lot of people getting in the game. I had tripled my ad spend. I'm doing all these things to try to keep it going. I'm struggling to get properties. And that's when interest rates also starts to creeping up creeping up creeping up and then i finally get like five or six properties you know like in april uh and i was like okay i'm i can do these this year this is gonna be fine i'm gonna be fine we're gonna be fine and then of course my market boise idaho swings a lot because it's very hyped up market and so it just it was already super red red red hot and that's what led me to do so well in 2021. But then 2022, I just got my butt kicked. I paid all my investors back, but I basically lost all the money that I had made the previous year. And I'm like, here we go again. I've been on this roller coaster. I know you're like mid-story, but can you explain what happened? What happened between 2021 and 2022? Because when interest rates went from 3.5% to basically 7% in a very short period of time, it just put a massive wet blanket on this tire market here. And then people really pulled back. So we had a dip about... about of like 75 to a hundred thousand in resale value. And that was just enough to, that was basically my margin on a lot of my deals. And so I was able to like to, to sell them and pay back my lenders. But I, I, the year was basically a loss, you know? So and so I was just like, okay, I'm good at this. I know how to do this, but I'm, I, I'm still, um, fragile. I'm still, you know, the market can still, you know, beat me. And so I didn't like, I didn't like that positioning at all. And so I started and in my area of Boise, Idaho, it's always been hard to have rentals either, you know, 20 years ago, it was either because rents were so low. Um, and now rents are higher. but so it but you know the sell prices are super higher it's like here it's almost like california prices it's it's kind of nuts and so compared to like the midwest where you can buy in a little price point and still have decent rent which is why the math works better there yeah you know we got into real estate from you know day one i you know you talk about this one percent rule Where, you know, if you're buy a property for not so much anymore. Yeah. Right. For a hundred thousand, hopefully you could rent it for, you know, a thousand bucks. Right. So this is like this nice formula that I was never attainable where I was living. And when I was trying to invest where I was living, I had some rentals, but it was always just like they, they made money because they appreciate it. Not so much because I was making money from the passive income. Yeah. So yeah. This has been this challenge because I wanted to get out of this trap of always having to go after these one-time sales. But then I accidentally found an opportunity. And so that opportunity came when my mother-in-law moved to town and said, Hey, I got this much, a little bit of cash and I want to pay cash. I want to live next to you guys and be near downtown and be walking us to a park, you know, benefit, benefit, all these things. And I was like, well, that, that doesn't exist. And so, and not here. And then I half jokingly said, unless, unless, know you got a mobile home or something and she's like i'd be open to that i'm like oh well let me look because maybe there's something that fits your you know your budget for that and i did i went out and i found a little estate sale of a manufactured home that fit all her criteria it was close to us close downtown it's right in town and so i basically bought this thing for 40 for 45 000. And then made a fatal mistake though. And that was, I showed it to her before I fixed it up. I know how to fix up houses. I've been doing that for a while. But, you know, she walked in, she's like, nope, it's not gonna work. And I'm like, oh, I'm gonna make this cute. I'm gonna change this, I'm gonna change this. She's like, nope, not gonna work. You know, and just walked out. So couldn't see it. It was nice, but it was like 1982 inside, right? So- Uh, so I was like, no, no big deal. I bought it already, but I'll fix it up. Well, I put it like 20 some into it. And then, uh, and then shockingly, I was like looking at the comps, like I knew I bought it well, but I was going to sell it for hopefully like 80 or something. And I ended up selling it for one 27. So I made over $50,000 on this mobile home flip. I'm like, what just happened? And so I'm like, that must've just been a fluke. And. So I did another one and it had a similar outcome. And I was like, huh, why is everybody avoiding this? I did my third one and I realized more why. And I've been in real estate for a long time. There's a lot of reasons that people avoid. I helped people. I was a broker for a while and also an investor. And so the mobile homes, especially in parks, they're kind of a pain. Like you got to deal with the park management. There's lot rents. There's all these little nuances. So most of the time, and they're kind of known to depreciate. Right? This is like their stigma on these things is that they depreciate over time, like a boat or an RV. And so I never really dealt with them, but then I started having these wins. And so then I just made sure I knew everything about them. And so the main thing is, is like one of the things about them is that they are the most affordable home in your community, but the banks won't touch them. The banks don't want anything to do with them, not the ones in the parks. And so even though they're the most affordable housing in your area. Why is that? Because they're not attached to the ground or they can be easily removed or what? You know, it's kind of odd because they'll give you a loan for your four-wheeler, your boat, and your RV, but not for the mobile home, right? And your car, of course, right? All of those depreciate. So the most likely reason is they don't like potentially being in second position to the lot rent, the landowner. right yeah and so they don't like that right so uh you can find loans out there but they're very special it's probably like a dozen in the across the nation there's not that many and the terms aren't that great so there's very limited options and realtors don't like dealing with it so they don't often don't even show these homes so i learned all this process because people start asking me what i own or finance and do this thing so i'm like i've been down the owner financing know uh place before because i had a bunch of those types of uh investments in oh six oh seven oh eight oh nine and they all just disintegrated um when everybody walked away from their their homes essentially yeah and their mortgages so i was like i had a lot of ptsd from doing that kind of stuff because you they one of the biggest downsides in real estate like let me put it this way There's a lot of, like people talk about passive income in real estate. And so people go out and they try to get a rental and they realize it's not passive at all. You're constantly writing checks for repairs and maintenance and you have turnover costs and these kinds of things. It's not really all that passive. One of the ideas that's been around for a while though is investing like a bank. And a bank, you don't have any landlord responsibilities. You just collect money. And so in that regard, it's wonderful. It's way more passive. If you look at it like an amortization schedule, a 30-year plan of how the banks created this, and you realize the first 10, 15 years, people are barely paying down this loan. It's all going to interest. It's all front-mounted. It's a very attractive investment model if you're investing like a bank. The problem is, the problem is, is that if you have a problem and you have to remove the person that's in there, they stop paying or whatever, like a foreclosure is way harder and way more expensive than an eviction, for example. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, now it's what I learned. I'm like, oh my gosh, it was so painful to go through that process. So when I talked to my attorney about mobile homes in a park and being the bank on them, I was like, what? what does it look like if I have to take one back? And they're like, well, it's actually personal property. And therefore, you don't actually have to follow the state and federal guidelines on the foreclosure process. You're going to still want to follow some process. So if you're ever in front of a judge, you're treating people fairly. But you don't have to like... So I asked him, well, what would it look like in the state that I'm in? And he said... It's actually not that similar to like an eviction process. It might take you a little bit longer if you went to the worst case scenario. If you had the worst case scenario and you had to go to court and the whole thing, it might take you two to three weeks longer than an eviction just because it takes longer to get that court date. It's a slightly different type of court. I'm like, oh, all right, well, that's better than three or four months. And so I tried it. And that's when I kind of found that. And when I did the math and got it all done, I was like, wow, I not only just hit the 1% rule, I hit almost a 2% rule. Because here's what I'm doing. I'm buying this asset that a lot of people have already assumed it devalues. But then I found through just through evidence that people were wanting these types of homes, particularly a nice affordable home, which I was making it. Right. And then I was like, well, do I even want to hold this long term? Because if this is going to lose value, is that going to be a problem? And then I tracked all the used mobile home sales over the last 20 years in my area and And I saw that they mirrored exactly what the traditional starter homes were doing in my area. Just $200,000 less. They were just tracking it the same way. And so they were following the same pattern. They were appreciating the same way. And so that's when I realized over time – because here's the thing about – mobile homes. The reason why they got the reputation was they made a lot of them. When they started coming out in the 50s and 60s and 70s, they were making a lot of these homes and they were putting in parks everywhere. So you always had a high supply problem in the whole supply demand issue, right? So this is the thing that had always existed. So if you bought one in 1982 and then you stayed in it for six years and you're like ready to upgrade, downgrade, whatever, you're ready to sell, you're always competing with new parks and new homes. And these new homes are coming in very low cost because these manufacturers are just pushing them out like crazy. And so they could afford to have them out at a low cost. Yeah. So you always had a drop. It's like your new car driving off the lot thing. It was that same kind of effect, right? It's like everyone just would prefer a new one because they're a good purchase, a good buy. This happened until about the – and so what happened is that people stopped taking care of them because like, oh, well, if it's not going to appreciate, I'm not going to paint it. I'm not going to fix the roof. I'm not going to update the windows, update the kitchen, all the stuff you might do with traditional housing, right? And so by the time the 90s and early 2000s comes along – All across the country, this has happened. They started changing the zoning laws. So they said, no more mobile home parks. They're a blight on the community. They look terrible. Like, we don't want them anymore. And this was true, right? Because a lot of them had become so bad. So that's... So they changed the zoning law so you stopped being able to put new mobile home parks in. So for the last 20 years, just try to put a mobile home park. Like, yeah, you can't put one. I mean, in very rare cases can you actually get approved to put one in. You might get approved for an RV park, but a mobile home park, it's almost impossible. So then the supply-demand changes a bunch, and there's the opportunity. Well, so that changed. Like, you think about things. If in America they stopped – building new cars, what would happen to the value of your used car? Go way up. Yeah, exactly. Right. Because all of a sudden the supply is changed. Right. So this is kind of what's been happening. So here you have all this affordable housing all over the US and there's millions of them. Right. And they all need repair and rehab just about. And they're affordable and they're in abundance, you know, that they need this work. And so if you go in and do your, what I would come in and start doing these fix and flip things on them. So just like anything, you fix it up nice and you can get a spread. So, You can have a lot of equity of what you can potentially sell it for. So when I become a bank, I'm being the bank on these things. I'm selling them on terms because most people don't have cash, especially the people looking for affordable housing. And then I can have – but I have a lot of equity already in it. So it's a very safe loan because I'm in it much less than I'm selling it for. Yeah. Yeah, so this allowed me to do, so this was the first step, phase of me going, cool, I'm getting 1%, almost 2% rule on these things. It's very passive, but there's a problem. My problem was, I don't have endless capital to invest with, right? And you can't really go out and get... And even getting investor loans is hard on these things because even the investors that provide funding don't like to do it on mobile homes, particularly ones in parks. So it's kind of like this chicken and the egg thing. You're like, ah, here's this great opportunity. I did a few of these, but I was stuck because I... And just to clarify one thing. So there's guys that listeners, there's two types of owner finance. You can, you know, do everything cash and then like literally you own the thing free and clear and you can finance it for the buyer or you can wrap it, which is where you have an existing first lien. position loan from a, just any old bank or a 30 year loan. And then you, you know, sell the house and you have a second lien position. It's like a second mortgage on the house. So you don't own the house, but you still have the first mortgage. I didn't do a very good job explaining wraps just now. Let's do a podcast on wraps soon. Yeah. So you are doing seller finance. You own all these free and clear these mobile home. Yeah. Right. I mean, I'd often be using sometimes my own equity or hard money to do the deal. But the problem was is that I had to pay off and do that. Right. Yeah. And so what I first did, which is kind of a band-aid idea, and I see this happen a lot in real estate investing. So what I first did is I went out to my sphere and said, hey, I got a good asset here. It's paying good cash flow. I'm looking for an investor loan. I'm willing to do like, you know, nine percent ten percent whatever i'll pay you um and then i'll have this property isn't this investment property is collateral So I did that on a couple of properties where that helped me get my basis out of it, right? So if I sold it for 100,000 for Easy Math, but I was in it for 60, then I would get a loan for 60,000 that I could pull out my basis, right? And the problem is, is like, this is working, this is working. So now I'm making good cashflow, I'm getting my basis out, I can go out and do another one. I'm like, wow, how many would it take for me to make 15 000 a month you know just from this idea and where were you getting your basis out of you said just like a personal loan or yeah so eventually initially i was just using my home equity you know that i had in my house right yeah so just to get started and then then i was trying to find but i kept running into issues with funding on this type of asset class um so i did get a couple people to come in and do that and this is a this work but the problem was i was like well if i can If I did the exact same thing and I was making $300 or $400 a piece on these things, how many would I need? Well, I was like, well, I'm going to need 40 of these things in order to hit that $15,000 a month, enough to cover all my household expenses and then a little extra. That's the goal. That's the idea of building my financial mode of what I wanted. But I also saw under that idea, I was going to have to have about two plus million dollars in debt carrying to make that happen. And I'm like, no. I've been down that road before. And so this is the problem with real estate investing. We're taught to use debt because this is our leverage thing. And this works. It helps us get the asset. It helps us. And a lot of these assets produce income. And it works. It works until... It doesn't. When the market changes, something happens. The property, you know, something happens where you're like- Spoken like a true veteran. I love it. Yeah, you're like, you just get your asking. Right. Because what happens is I've seen it just not, this has happened to myself three or four times, but also a lot, I've seen stuff being up millions. They're up millions. And then- whoosh, because what happens is if you go late on one lender, now that's marred your credit and now you can't even refinance. And then it just creates this cascading effect where it just sinks people so fast because they get up, they get up, they have to do a bigger bet. They go from houses to apartments to developments. They're just going and going. And that debt creates a house of cards is what it does. I'm not a fan of that. And so, but how do you, but how do you achieve that level of thing? So, but the answer has been simple and it's been sitting in front of us the entire time. The answer has always been there. And that's what I found out. And that's when I realized like, well, instead of going out and giving somebody a loan on this thing to help me, you know, cover this asset, why don't I already created this good money-making machine? Why don't I just share ownership in So what I started doing is just partnering and say, hey, I'll give you equity. You come in at $60,000. I'll give you 60% equity in this investment. And then you would make $600 a month. I'll make $400 a month. We're good. So I get cashed out. You're good. And so that's what I started doing. And then now – and then people like it because they like to be an equity owner. And by the way, I say to them, like, you can be – I'll be the active investor. You be the passive one. I don't have to do that much active stuff because we invested like a bank. There's not that much to do here, but I'm available in case there's something there is need to do, you know, that kind of thing. So you line out what happened, you know, if property needs to be turned over or whatever, there's a process for that. But I start setting these up. Well, I'm like, but it was still tricky. It was still hard to get people to come in. Cause like, ah, mobile homes. I don't know if I want to do a long-term note on a mobile home. You know, the stigma on these things is, is thick and real. Like people- Are you partnering with the new homeowner or some other investor and then you're renting it out? Here's how it looks. Let's say I buy a mobile home for 25,000. Okay. Need some work, but it's nice. Three bedroom, two bath, nice house. And I then buy that. And let's say I put $25,000 into it, fixing it up. So now I'm in it for $50,000. I sell it on terms for $100,000 to somebody. And then let's say they're paying $1,000 a month for that house. All right. So now this asset is paying $1,000. Basically, my average interest rate that I'm getting from these people because they can't get a loan from anywhere else is around 12% unless they put a bigger down payment. So that equals a 12% return, but I'm only in it for 50. So I'm kind of really making 24% on that $50,000 because of how that cash flow works out. So that's what I have. That's the asset that I have. Then I bring in and say, all right, this asset's doing well. Now I say, hey, friend, buddy, relative, partner, other investor, come in at 50,000. I'll give you half ownership in this note because that's what the asset is. When you sell it on terms to the buyer, you're not holding the real estate. You're holding the note, right? That's what investing as a bank means, right? So it's the note is the asset. Oh my gosh. That's so cool, dude. Right. So then it's like, but it's so simple though. Right. So you just, if, if someone's out there, it's so like to say, I become partners. So I just create like a simple partnership and say, all right, we, we now owe this and there's how the money is going to be distributed. And that has allowed me to go from, you know, no passive income to have, I have over 30 properties now. 30, 30, 30 ways to take care of. No, no debt and no debt. Right. And so that here's, so here's the, here's the aha. It's that it doesn't matter really what kind of real estate investing you're doing. The biggest aha that I've had in 20 years in real estate investing is it took me a long time to see what was right in front of me is that we shouldn't use banks as partners. We should use feather investors as partners. All right. And a lot of times we can have strong partnerships. Like we're now like somebody who's got the skills, the time, the availability to go out and find a deal and set it up and do this stuff. And someone else has got the money. Right. And so now you're partnering and that partnership is way stronger than going out and getting a loan from Wells Fargo. Okay. Because now you guys can adapt. It's almost like a startup and essentially, but still. Yeah. If you're buying smart and you're doing good investments, it's way less risky to do it this way. Way less. And now I'm basically hooking up all my friends because I have, they're making 12% on their money long-term. They don't have to do anything. And it just like comes, you know, like mailbox money. And some of them are taking that because they're setting up in their IRA, you know, Roth IRA. So they're making it tax-free and then they're reinvesting it. Some of them just putting it back in the S&P 500. Oh my gosh. Or some of them are buying more property. So now their effective rate is over 20% return because they're reinvesting the cash flow. And it's like, yeah. And no debt, small assets, lots of different things paying us. So that is a smart way to invest in real estate. And it's in front of all of us. It's there. And so now I teach people how to do this. I help other people invest their money this way. And it's yes it's way worth the mike turner method i'm going to call this the mike turner method you need you know pace has the morby method they came up with sure brandon turner coined the burr method this is the mike turner method i love it okay yeah it's and and the key is though it's like because you can do you can flip mobile homes and you sell them on terms but i really want to hammer the point about the partnering thing because because I've seen so many people get killed by the debt. You can be up so many properties and that debt is we're lured in because it's like, oh, tax write-offs and tax strategies, this, that, and the other, but it's a trap. It's a slippery slope. And so I still use debt, but I use it temporarily and I don't like it for long-term. And yes, I might miss out on some tax strategies. And if I get to a really high wealth level, situation and that's my main focus. Okay. All right. Maybe I'll play with it in some capacity then. But for the most of us who are just trying to get out of being a slave to the dollar, right? Having to go out and trade our time for it so we can protect our families and invest for the That's the thing. It's like the debt is like a, it's a, it's a dangerous tool. And I don't think we, we, we talk about that enough because we're used is talk about as tool to acquire, but it'll, it'll sink you fast. So I like the idea of partnering and a lot of people like who are just getting started, they might know somebody who's has, uh, a fair amount of money invested. And if you have developed a skill to finding opportunities and helping those happen, that's a great partnership. And, and so those kinds of things are, I'm trying to encourage people to find those more often because it's this much smarter way to invest. And then for me, it's like, We're all, I joke with all of them, like we're all building pensions now. If you do this the right way, like you can, like I'm at 30, my goal's about 75. That should put me, you know, about 250,000 a year in passive income. Wow, that's awesome. Just comes in, right? Great. From like 75 different sources. And people have a lot of concerns like about mobiles, like don't just turn over more and these, that. All I can say is like, here's for us, there's such a demand for affordable housing and they can't find it. And so if you can be in the forefront of providing something incredibly in need in your community, there's so much opportunity there. And so that's, That's been the extra fun part, too, because I get to have these closings or these buyers who didn't think they're going to be able to buy a home because they got so expensive and where they grew up. Yeah, it's really cool. It's an amazing. Yeah, it's an incredible way to solve the affordability problem. I'm curious. So with these mobile home parks, you know, there's smaller deals that it's expensive. You end the deal with about 50% equity, 60% or 40%. Does this work? In most of my deals, I end up around the 75% into the deal. 75% rule is usually how I calculate if I'm going to buy the deal or not. Can you make this work with 25% or 30% equity and have a partner in a deal? Maybe it's like a single family home or something. Yeah, so you can do this strategy, basically like a cash flow flip with any type of asset. But what you want to be looking for is, you know, a lot of times people are looking at, like, how much do I need to borrow, right? And that's the only piece that you change, right? You just, instead of that, like, bring in partners. I think... When I started flipping houses, one of the smartest things I did, and I didn't even realize it was, is that instead of trying to do this whole deal myself and make this return at the end, I went out to somebody I knew who had money and said, hey, I'll do everything. Let's just like, I'll find the properties. I'll do it. I'll fix up everything. I'll sell it. I'll do all the things and we'll just split it. Okay. And so, so what you're, what you're offering them. And then when you're, this works best on, um, single family you know traditional houses because you know a lot of times if you're gonna borrow money you know for a flip at 300 000 or 400 000 or even 200 000 it's that that cost of money is pretty high and so it can be pretty high so partnering it can be smart there you know sometimes i'll do like just like a hard money loan to acquire one of these like mobile homes just because I don't necessarily need the partnership on that side of the deal. But if you're getting started, this is what I'd recommend. And so as you're trying to calculate, there's so many different extra strategies too. That's another thing I teach. I have a community where I teach people how to invest in mobile homes because there's there's there's a lot of nuances ways to do it and um i teach a method called home bridging it's kind of like wholesaling but it's like uh transparent because i don't like a person i don't like the wholesaling because i don't like this trying to not tell the seller what i'm actually really selling it for and you're saying you're gonna buy it but you're not really gonna buy it and all these That's not how I like to do business. So what I do is something more transparent. It's like, hey, it doesn't make sense for me to buy this cash. However, I think I can resell this to someone. And here's what I can do, and I can do it differently than what a realtor would do. And so sometimes we're working with them in these different capacities, and sometimes I even make the seller, you brought this up earlier, sometimes you can make the seller your partner, meaning that now maybe it's a property, think of a commercial property that's sitting there forever and it's not selling, it's not selling. What if you just proposed to them, hey, what if I came in here and helped you sell this via owner? I'm experienced selling things on terms and they might be fearful of that. And that's why they haven't tried it. But if you, it's like, I'm experienced with this. I know how to do this. I have a team of people that I can lean on that, you know, for these kinds of things, whatever you want to say. And you can sometimes get a property sold because you can now can do creative financing on that backend. And that's sometimes how you get these deal done. So this, this opportunities of kind of partnering there. Yeah. And then selling on terms, it's everywhere in every asset class. I just happen to be in the most affordable housing class when I'm doing it. But it's available for all types of things. Okay, a couple questions. So for people that, there's a lot of people listening to this, they're like, I have $3,000 to my name. I can't even do this mobile home park thing, the Mike Turner method with mobile home park. Can you start off with... hard money or a bank or something and get the property, fix it up, and then bring a partner in to pay off the hard money and have 50% equity. Have you done that? Or you just feel like that's kind of dangerous? Yeah, people could do that. And here's the thing. Here's how you do it. Because no one's really going to want to lend you that money if you're not experienced and that's how much money you have. However, I have students that have succeeded in doing that. Because I tell them, well, go find somebody in your local area who's in an investment group and say you'll pay them 20% to 25%. And the reason why you can afford to do that is because you're only borrowing $20,000. So even over a few months, that's only going to cost you a grand or two. And so it's not that much expensive. So that's the way you can get started. You give somebody a very... you know, profitable, you could, yeah. And then you can put them and say no to that. Yeah. Right. Well, you just, you know, and then giving them, you know, uh, you know, all the collateral and the lean that they need on there to feel comfortable. So that's how you do that. What I would typically recommend though, instead is say, go out and find a contractor, someone else who's also wanting to do this and you, now you pitch in and so you don't even have to do that step. But yeah, you know, But yes, this is how you would do it. You go out and you find that. And so- We're starting to do that inside my community. We're trying to help people find the funding because the funding is hard on the mobile homes. If you're in that asset class, that's the hardest part because all the bigger, you know, lenders out there who will normally, you know, lend on fix and flip kind of stuff don't like to touch those mobile homes. So you have to sometimes find private lenders and it's not that hard, but it is part of the process, you know, it's just for this asset class. I always tell people it's scary when you're first starting out. $60,000 or $80,000 or $100,000 seems like so much, and you're like, I don't know anyone with that kind of money. You'd be surprised at how many people's contacts are in your phone that are waiting for the opportunity that they can make 12%, 15%, 20% on their money. Heck, there's lots of people that will do that. Well, it can't do that at 50, a hundred grand, but a lot of them have 10, 15, 20. Okay. They're willing to do it at that kind of price point. And especially if you show them your plan, you show them your homework, you show them what you're doing. You like, like you put some, you know, a lot of thought into that. That's where you're going to have a lot of success. And so I, and, and keep in mind too, if you really just have like 3000 to your name right now, a lot of times too, is that people, you can just, Avoid the massive rehab, all right? Your number one ROI you're going to do on that house is you're going to go in there and give it some elbow grease and just clean it from top to bottom. Just clean that thing, and it's going to be worth thousands of dollars more, and then you just sell it. okay just do that and so that is yeah yeah just right exactly just clean that's get the stink out of it okay and sometimes you got to put some kills paint down fine whatever but you're get the you know get it clean and that is going to be your dollar for dollar hour hour your best roi you can do on that property and sometimes that's enough and that is the least risky and sometimes you can just do that while you're under contract because you're not really changing anything and so you can have it kind of pre-sold essentially. Okay, where do people find these deals? You mentioned, like, I don't even see these on the MLS. I don't think, I don't know if they get posted on there. Maybe every state is different. But yeah, where do you find them? And like, yeah, where can people go? Cameron, where are you based out of? I'm in Waco, Texas. Yeah, so Texas, yeah, not so much in Texas, right? And Texas is tricky because it's also a non-sales disclosure state. And so the people that I have doing their, like, Sometimes you're finding them on Facebook Marketplace or find them on Craigslist. You find them by driving them through the parks themselves. And just opportunities like in places like Texas too, like there's some good opportunities that are just on these mobiles on land too. So that's another really cool, like a lot of these mobile homes, the best deals you'll see online are ones that need to be moved. And so now moving them is expensive. But if you can find a deal on land and then move them there and then do that whole process, all of a sudden now you can have these massive upsides. So some people are really playing in that space too. But yeah, the best way to find the deals is to, one, drive them. You can decide then if you even want to do business in there because some of them are so far gone that you may not – want to do like they're just too run down at this point or whatever yeah you know these may not decide to want to do business there but here's one right here guys on on zillow for 44k you know it's already in good condition or pretty good condition so then what my next step would be and what probably yours should be is to talk to a realtor figure out a way to pull comps the way mike has and he knows his arv is going to be about 100 or 120 and just run the deal this is such a great way to get started i love it yeah it's way less risky right yes so low cost and i'm gonna have my kids do it here pretty soon just because so they can see you know that they can do this part-time this doesn't have to be their career but this would be something you can do part-time and also set this up and now this pays for your car bill now this pays for your electrical bill now you know and it and it lasts like people don't understand like with In business, any business, you make your business more, like substantially more profitable if you have reoccurring income. So think about if you're going to try to sell your business, if you don't have reoccurring income, you're going to get maybe 2x, 3x, 4x of what you're normally getting. But if you find a way to have consistent reoccurring income, you can sell for like 20x, right? It's like a huge jump. And so- So if you can imagine having a customer, you go through the process of getting through the whole process, doing your service, and then, you know, getting, you know, get that process to where you make money, but they then stay on for decades. They pay you for decades. I don't know how to emphasize how impactful that is where you can have something that doesn't need your time for decades. I don't care what kind of business you have. If you can get more money on the reoccurring side, you're more bulletproof. You can last whatever comes with you because that money will come in more consistently. You can budget off of it. And so we think about that with your investments too. Even if you're in the stock market, make sure you have some things that are paying you dividends or you're some of those EFTs that are paying off income. Like those kinds of things, you're getting your return back right now and regularly versus like hoping it's going to be more in the late later. That's, it's very risky comparatively. So just thinking about your investments that way is smarter. And that's why with. I'm excited to be able to set up these assets by design to last for decades, each one, so that not only I'm set for a while, my family's set, to kind of take that pressure off so we don't actually have to go out and hunt for money every week. Yeah, yeah. It's no wonder that banks do pretty well. Exactly. That's why they have the tallest building in every city, right? Yeah, so be smart and invest like them. They've actually created some – very lucrative models and just like the, the loan amortization because it's just, you know, it gets people a lower payment. Yeah. So they can afford it. But, and I just say, Hey, I'm just, this is, I'm just, you know, just the bank's created this, you know, but yeah, I set it up just like them. And I, you know, and a lot of times people are, are, they're just about all the people that are buying my houses are renting and now this gives them a path to home ownership yeah and it's not perfect it's not perfect because they still got to pay a lot rent underneath that but at least they have an opportunity to own the house to write off those taxes or whatever on the interest on that and they can have an opportunity to pay it off and so and do what they want to it you know yeah right exactly you know that's the part of the kind of ownership yeah yeah okay i have so many questions but i'll just ask a couple that i'm sure are burning in people's minds so so and i i really could sit here for another hour with you it's so cool uh llc i'm sure do you like create a new partnership and a new llc with each partner and then in your community do you like provide people paperwork? I didn't know you had a community by the way, until we hopped on here, but do you like have a way for people to get access to your paperwork or, and do you create an LLC with each partner? Yeah. Yeah. So I, the answer is that yes. So the LLC question, how I structure it is yes. I, and there's a lot of ways to do this, but how I do it is I create a partnership type entity between myself and my partner, and that we might have multiple properties, notes, assets inside that partnership versus doing a separate LLC for every property. So I have some investors that have seven, eight, 10 properties, and I have other ones that have just one or two. okay yeah and so depending on how much you know they have available to invest um and usually their average amount i'm they're coming in is around 40 to 50 000 in my market some markets that might be 25 other markets that might be 75. it just depends on you know the different markets and what the things are selling for When you're selling, sorry, we have a tiny delay, so I'm trying not to interrupt, but I keep accidentally interrupting. When you're selling investors, or I guess they're going to be partners with you, into this, and you're telling them, hey, here's going to be the ROI, it looks like they're putting in 50, and then they're going to get... like 500 a month back so like six thousand a year like do you mention interest rate or is it just all about hey just a partnership and you get ownership in this thing So because most of my loans are around 12%, and even if not, I actually give them the equivalent of that because I'll discount how much they have to come in. It's the cashflow. I try to get all my investors to be scheduled to get about 12% on their money. And so what's convenient about that is that I tell them, if you have 40,000, expect about 400 a month. If you have a hundred thousand, expect a thousand a month. The math is easy. Okay. So it allows me to then have these, you know, it is these conversations quickly so they can kind of have an understanding of like, if they invest in this, here's what you can expect and a very simple way to explain it. Right. Um, so I do that with them and, and, and yeah, and that's what we're averaging on, on all of them is about 12%. And then the question about, you know, how can people learn, you know, what I'm using in the forums and all this stuff? Yes, I have a community on school that I created. It's called the Mobile Home Investing Club. It's free to join. Now, some of my stuff where I'm giving away and doing, you know, more mentoring and coaching is on a higher paid level, but compared to what most people charge, it's, it's a fraction. But basically what I'm doing there is just showing you, and I have a course that you can take. It's called, I call this method like a cashflow flip because it's, but it's more than that too. Cause with the pension stuff, those are my nickname, my pension bankers, we're all building our pension banks, but the, but, but yeah, it's, and this, this process is not any harder than any other, uh, strategy you've seen out there, because there's lots of ways to invest your money. But there is a learning curve to figure it out, right? And that's what I've been helping with. I had a significant one. I've been in real estate a long time, but this niche is... nuance dealing with park managers and and some of the nuances with that and because it's personal property and not real estate and and um how you structure things and how you securitize the the note because you don't normally there's not a deed of trust you know there's different documents that you use to make sure your money is protected and there's lots of ways to do that But that's what I had to go out and figure it out. And so I had all that brain damage figuring that out. So I share all that. I share all that because this opportunity is available in just about every market in the United States. Okay, now the numbers are gonna be different because I have some people I'm helping that are like, in detroit and things you know it's hard to get stuff over 50 000 in detroit you know um but they're acquiring it for five or six grand you know and then sometimes selling it for 25 or on terms for 35 or whatever and so you know there's a lot of this you can make it work but that's what it is if i was in certain areas i might shift it where maybe i'm doing stuff on land more it just depends on how the numbers shake out or the kind of the terms on each, every deal I do slightly different because I might inquire, acquire it differently because they're not taking my cash offer mount, but maybe I can do some other, uh, arrangement that gets them a little bit more money. And, and it helps me, you know, still be able to make the deal pencil on the backend, you know? That's cool. Guys, if there was ever a course to invest in, if I was a beginner in real estate, this would be the one. I mean, this is such a great way for people to get started. And in a day and age where there's a course for literally everything out there, I think this is a solid one to invest in. Mike, if you wouldn't mind, tell us a quick story of some impact you got to have on a buyer or just a quick story of a deal you did. Yeah, just last week, this gal who went through a divorce and had some kids, so she has her kids. And she was in this temporary housing of some kind, and that wasn't really working. And she thought she had a rental lined up, and then that fell through, and she just panicked. And she was in a place for a while, but then they decided to sell it. And it's kind of just going through this process. One of her main problems is that her credit got dinged up a bit through that divorce process. And she's making good income, and she has a decent job, but it's hard to get approved for anything. And she's not making a ton of income, but she just wanted stability. She just was trying to find it, and she just couldn't get her hands on it. But she had to stay local, and she had these challenges. And then she found one of my properties, and she's like – What kind of credit do I need to get in? It's like, well, you got to get approved by the park and I'm outside of that control. But this particular park, they're a little bit more flexible than some other ones. So try here first. I think this is going to work. And then if you get approved for here, you're probably going to get approved for us. And we walked through that process. And then I met her at the closing table just a couple of days ago. And she was signing the papers and she just broke down. she just started crying and she was just so relieved and thankful and she probably hugged me like 15 times you know it was getting a little weird it's funny because you know it was just so emotional and that now the title gal title officer she started crying too you know because she was just so real it was so real you know of a moment and i was like and you know, this was, you know, my, my main focus up to that point was like, okay, I gotta get this fix and that fix and doing this. I'm all like, you know, business minded, business minded. And then we get here and then the realness of what that's one of the parts about, you know, what I do. It surprises me every time. It's just so real that this is such a need. Building a business around such a critical need is a really cool way to spend your time. I hope to retire and not have to go out and have to find deals and stuff. I will always miss that. That will be – because that's really a special thing to be able to do that, to be there for someone's life like that. And I was kind of taking it for granted. But for her, it's like – the whole world yeah so that's amazing that's that's a common thing so cool real estate is so is so powerful in that way because it's so emotional and everybody has to live somewhere and everybody has emotions surrounding their home and their belongings and that roof over their head it's such a like fundamental human need and a almost a human right that to to shelter and safety and um it's so powerful that you get to help provide that for people and listeners that you get to help provide that for people so let's keep it up if you needed a why behind your investing journey or your business today that take that one that's a great one um awesome mike well okay man this has been amazing i feel like i could sit here for another hour with you but Got to let you go and tell people where they can find you, connect with you, be a part of your community, and get your course and all that, and we'll hop off. Yeah. I got like a free one you could take. You go to my website, miketurner.life is the website that will point you in the right direction. And then most of my social media handles say the same thing, miketurner.life. So anyway, that's how you find me. Love it, man. This is one of my favorite episodes I've ever done. I mean, I'm learning right along with you guys. And I just feel like, man, Mike, thank you for bringing your heart. You just seem like a very good-hearted person, really trying to bring good into the world. And I appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for doing this show. I love it. Keep it going. It's needed. See you guys. Guys, thank you so much for tuning into this episode of The Legacy Investor. Hey, if you want to help us grow and support us, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. That really helps a lot. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel, Cameron Filgreen. It's still new and growing, but I am going to start posting on there more regularly. Follow me on Instagram at Cameron underscore Filgreen. If you know someone who should be on this podcast, Go fill out the form on my website. It's CameronPhilGreen.com slash podcast. Fill out the form there. I'd love to have more guests on this podcast. It's been a blast. And music is by Eric Lopez Villaverde. Reach out to him for all your music needs. On Instagram, he's Eric Lopez Villaverde. Hope you guys have a great day and thank you for tuning in. Bye-bye.