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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast, episode 104.
Track 1: the post it note
is more, is mightier.
than the grazing reel.
Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast, episode 103.
You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
Cal: You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's episode, we have Clay
Connery of the Working Cows Podcast.
Very excited for him to come on, share
his journey, talk about the podcast,
and answer the famous four questions.
And just as a teaser, I don't
think you can guess what his
favorite tool for the farm is.
It's an excellent episode.
It's a dime.
It's a don't intentionally miss episode.
Anyway, before we talk to Clay, 10
seconds about my farm, and we're going to
talk about the grazing grass community.
By the time you listen to this, We
will have a thousand members, if not
really close, and if you're not a
member, you might want to run over
there and join because the thousandth
member, boy that th was hard for me, the
thousandth member will receive a prize.
Once we get to a thousand, I'll announce
it in the group, so we all know, but
so excited that group is growing, so
excited, excited for the discussion
that's happening there, and we can
support each other in our journeys.
Enough about me, about the
grazing grass community.
Let's talk to Clay.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Clay, we want to
welcome you to the Grazing Grass Podcast.
We're
excited you're here today.
Track 1: Cal, it's an honor to be here.
Thanks for the opportunity.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: To get started,
Clay, can you tell us about yourself and
your operation?
Track 1: Yeah.
Just I like the way that
one guest put it one time.
He said, I ranch on a postage stamp.
And so we're, we got a half section
of land, which, you know, maybe
for a guy in Northeast Oklahoma
or or Minnesota or Missouri.
That sounds significant, but it'll
run about nine cows for a year in our
neighborhood is what we're looking at.
And so my wife and I have been on
this journey of managing our own
place for about five years with our
four kids ages 15, 13, 11, and nine.
It's easy here for about six months
until the, Boys turn 16 and 14
this summer and then we've got
two two evens and two odds again.
But we've got two boys
or three boys and a girl.
Birth order goes boy, girl, boy.
So she's well protected and feisty.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: So.
Track 1: But yeah, so
We we run on, like I said,
a half section of land.
I look at the ranch as a side hustle
because I don't think that we should
try to ask it to do more than it can.
And so the way that fleshes it out
is we've got a resident sheep herd
which I appreciated your your episode
with Jared Luman because I am also
accidentally lambing right now.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh
Track 1: we are, we're recording
here at the end of February and
we're accidentally lambing just about
done actually from the looks of it.
And so anybody who I, as I said in a radio
interview the other day anybody who runs
sheep knows what that, knows what's that,
what that's about accidentally lambing.
So we have a resident sheep herd.
And then we also have we bring in
custom grazing cattle through in the
summer during the growing season May
to August ish, sometimes end of May
to end of August, sometimes beginning
of May to beginning of August, just
depends on what season you're in.
What the customer wants and that's how we
try to maximize or optimize, as you said.
That's how we
optimize
our forage availability and
quality throughout the year.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh, very good.
When we jumped back, Clay, did you
always knew you wanted to be here
running sheep and cattle?
Track 1: Absolutely not.
I knew actually, I knew really well
that I wanted n Very little, if
nothing, to do with agriculture.
I always say I grew up on a
ranch west of Belfouche, South
Dakota, my parents were heroes.
They started a ranch from
scratch in the eighties.
That wasn't easy to do back then.
But what
that meant was they both.
They both worked jobs,
full time jobs in town.
My dad worked for the phone
company and my mom was a teacher,
elementary school teacher.
And so that meant evenings, nights, and
weekends were cows, and they were good.
Looking back now and having my own kids
those ages we were involved in things.
We were involved in 4 H.
We were involved in wrestling and
baseball and they never missed any
of those events, also, on top of
starting ranch from nothing in the 80s.
They were present for activities
and had us involved in activities,
but nights and weekends were cows for us
outside of extracurricular activities.
And so I grew to resent the cows.
I probably, or maybe definitely
had a bit of a lazy streak and
didn't enjoy the work outside.
as much as somebody, as some other people.
And so I didn't grow up with that
story that I hear so often from
other people of, Oh, I love this.
I knew I wanted to do it from,
from my earliest days, I was
carpet farming, and always had
a fascination with the tractors.
That wasn't me.
Agriculture in general, cows
specifically didn't interest me.
And so I went away to Bible
school for a couple of years.
And In Milwaukee started to realize
that, Western South Dakota wasn't
as bad a place as I thought it was.
And I never really didn't like it.
It just, I was curious about other places.
I got, as they say, a belly full
of living in the city, got to find
out what that was all about.
and realized I do Western South Dakota.
And then, as I often say, I got
selectively involved on my dad's ranch
helping him calve heifers helping
him brand some of the other big cow
working days and then that involvement.
Morphed over time into greater and
greater involvement, and it started
to get in my blood, so to speak, and
started to get opened up through some
continuing education courses to a
whole different way of thinking about
grass and cows and business in general.
And that was the start of
the journey for me is getting
introduced to some of these ideas.
of regenerative agriculture.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321:
So after Bible college you
went back home.
Track 1: Yeah, so I went back to
I went back and started a job.
I worked some blue collar jobs odd jobs
flooring, did some flooring putting
carpet and tile and hardwood in houses.
I did I worked at a shop where
we installed custom living
quarters and horse trailers.
So think of those people who are on
the rodeo circuit living in their
horse trailers, 250 days a year.
Those are the kind of
trailers we were working on.
I did that for a while.
And then I worked at a bentonite
plant, which is bentonites and
everything from diapers to.
toothpaste and candy bars.
It's it's we use that.
I worked in a plant where we put that in
bags and shipped it all over the world.
And so I did that for about
18 months after school.
And then I got pitched a job working
as a youth pastor in a local church.
And so I did that.
I was a youth pastor in a local
church for about 12 years.
And like I said, I was
selectively involved in the
ranch during that whole time.
But I, I wasn't, there as
an employee or anything.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yeah, I know when
I left the farm originally and started
teaching, my selectively involvement
in dad's cattle was him calling me.
We got work to do, but I don't know if
I had much of an option to say, Hey, I
can't, but, actually, I am one of those
people that knew from an early age,
livestock was something I wanted to do.
My brother and sisters, I've
mentioned, they got as far
away as quickly as they could.
Track 1: I was just going to
say that's similar to me too.
My brother has he spent some years in
the oil field, but he's had cows of his
own for, most of his post college years
once he moved back from California.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh yeah.
Now one thing that I think is
interesting, you went a long
ways from home for college.
What was some contributing
factors for that?
Track 1: It was.
affordable.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: That's,
always important.
Track 1: So I went to New Tribes Bible
Institute in Waukesha, Wisconsin, which is
just outside of Milwaukee and all of the
teachers there are retired or not retired,
but missionaries who have returned home
for the most part from the mission field.
And so their salaries are
paid as missionaries.
So the student body doesn't have
to pay their salaries and then
and so it's just You end up just paying
room and board, basically, is what you're
paying for in your education there.
It's now called Ethnos 360, it's
still there same Bible school,
same curriculum, some of the same
teachers as were there 20 years ago,
but but it's now called Ethnos 360.
Goes by a different name, but anyways
and then the other thing was all the
credits would have transferred to Moody
Bible Institute And I'm pretty sure I
wanted to be a youth pastor at that point
And so I was going there because Moody
is similar in that it's affordable And
so it ends up being hard to get into
and so I wanted to go to New Tribes
So that all my credits would transfer
to Moody and then that's where I
was gonna go into Chicago,
actually, from Milwaukee to Chicago.
But yeah, that was just why I went there.
I ended up getting connected.
To New Tribes Bible Institute
through a mission trip that I
went on with a Christian boarding
high school that I was attending.
I attended my senior year of
high school was at Sunshine Bible
Academy in Miller, South Dakota.
And we took a mission trip to
the Milwaukee Rescue Mission.
And most of the students there
were, or most of the staff in the
youth department there were New
Tribes Bible Institute students.
And so that's how I got
connected to New Tribes.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321:
Oh, very interesting.
One reason I went to NEO Junior College,
one thing, it was close, it was fairly
affordable, I could still come home and
dairy, but all the credits transferred
to Oklahoma State University where I was.
Intended on being, so
yeah, planning ahead.
You talked about you got home, you
were able to be selectively involved
in your dad's ranch, and at some
point through continuing education,
you started being introduced to
these paradigm shifting practices.
Tell us a little bit about
that process and how you dove
in deeper to learn more.
Track 1: Sure.
Yeah.
So basically the, I needed
to supplement my income.
The church was not able to
continue to pay a full time salary.
And so I needed to supplement my income.
My dad had retired early, I
would say early, yeah, he retired
early from the phone company to
go ranch full time, basically.
And he was getting to a place
where he needed more help on the ranch.
And so he said, I'll hire
you a couple days a week.
There's some lessons there
that we can talk about.
But I'll hire you a couple days a week and
and, pay you this much a month and and it
would supplement my income at the church.
And then he said, but before you come
and work on the ranch you should go get
some continuing education related to
ranching and tri state livestock news is
a big publication in our neighborhood.
Agriculture, obviously,
publication in our neighborhood.
And they had an advertisement in there
for the High Plains Ranch Practicum.
Was taught by Dallas Mount, now the
CEO of Ranch Management Consultants.
Aaron Berger, who's an extension
agent in Southwest Nebraska.
And then Blake Hopman, who was
also an extension agent in Wyoming.
So it was basically University of Wyoming,
University of Nebraska going together
to put on this business based ranching.
Ranching class and so the
way it worked was it was two days a
month on in four separate months
So I think our classes were like
June August September November
maybe is when the classes
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh yeah.
Track 1: and so the first I don't know
if I remember this quite, right But
it seems to me the first Our or two of
class was they showed us a clip from
the movie Moneyball about thinking
differently about how to draft
players from that first kind of
meeting where Billy Beans pitching
a different way to draft players and
choose players and then they showed
us, a different way to peel a banana.
That was the first hour of this
ranching class and getting us to think
differently, look at things differently.
The Don Campbell quote if you
want to change the way you, if
you want to change small things,
change the way you do things.
If you want to change big things,
change the way things, they
were trying to help us look at
things from a different paradigm.
And so that was my introduction
to these ideas of let's look
at ranching differently.
And then it was all
about economic analysis.
It was all about, this
is a business first, not.
A lifestyle first and grazing, high
density, short duration grazing being the,
what we're really shooting for as high a
density as we can possibly get and for a
shorter duration as we can possibly get.
All practical factors being part
of that decision making process.
But yeah and those are some of
the things, basically the four
pillars of a ranching operation,
land, animals, money, and people.
We love to manage animals
and land maybe second.
As ranchers, right?
Money and people, we're not so much
a fawn, a fan of doing those things.
And so we spend a lot of time looking
at animals and land, not much time
thinking about money and people.
And that nets us pretty poor results from
a business perspective in our ranches.
And so that was the way that the
school was structured and just
totally changed my paradigm.
It did.
It just totally changed the
way I look at agriculture.
It, that was where the passion to
be involved in agriculture for the
rest of my life came from, because
I could see that now cows are a tool
to make what God has entrusted to us
in the form of His creation better.
And there, man, I was
all in at that point.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh,
Track 1: I wanted to
be a part of it.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yeah,
the opportunity to leave things
better off than we found them.
It's a blessing to be here
and being able to do this.
How can we leave it in better shape?
Excellent passion there to go with.
When you started going to these
classes, first off, I love that format.
A couple days every few months.
It gives you time to get information,
go back, do some work, Reflect,
do more research if you need
to, and then come back for more.
I love that format.
Of course, most things are more
short intervals or, it's almost
the high density, short interval.
You go a conference for three days
and you get slammed with everything,
which there's benefits from that.
But having that opportunity
just a few days, every month,
some logistics of getting there.
But I really liked that model better than
some of the other models I've seen.
Track 1: Yeah, it's got, it's
advantages and disadvantages both ways.
I
think there's no right answer,
but it's definitely
worth maybe doing both.
Because I think
that it's easier for, especially for
people who are in an old paradigm of
branching, it's easier for people to.
get away for a couple of days at a time
than it is for eight days for something
like ranching for profit or something,
Where
if you're in an, in a newer paradigm,
hopefully you're building in
vacation, you're building in time
away from the ranch for your family.
And so this is part of, that becomes
an easier thing, but from an, in
an older paradigm way of thinking
where, I don't need a vacation.
I love what I do,
Why would I go anywhere else?
This is God's country, which it is.
And everybody who, wherever you live
should be that for you, honestly.
But anyways, that, I think it is easier
from that perspective and the ability
to take things in, ruminate on them
for a while, decompress, think about
them, look at your own operation,
think, how do I implement that?
And then go back and get that.
another and ask questions, honestly,
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh, yeah.
Track 1: we were thinking about
implementing this, but
how would that work here?
So I think that's a, it
is a really great format.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: That
opportunity to think about questions.
My best questions occur about 2 a.
m.
the day or two after whatever I'm at.
So having that opportunity to
write those down and go back and
ask questions, I think is great.
You mentioned about vacations.
I'm currently trying to convince my
wife that we need to take a vacation to
the National Grazing Lands Conference.
And I don't know how
that's going to be honest.
I know it's a hard sell because
she says so many of our vacations
involve something about ag.
So we'll
see how that goes.
She said we can go, but not so
much that it counts as a vacation.
Track 1: Yes.
Yes.
It's going to be a business expense
for the grazing grass podcast.
Is that right?
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: it is.
Yes.
Yeah.
And she'll make sure that everything's
paid for from grazing grass.
It will not be coming
out of any other budget.
Yeah, so you start going to these classes.
Did you go home and
tell your dad about it?
Was he receptive
to these ideas?
Track 1: Yeah.
I think that part of my dad being,
starting the ranch from nothing in the
eighties and my parents doing that is that
they were always pretty receptive to it.
There's some practical things, the, what
my dad's operation, my parents operation
ended up becoming was just a small piece
of owned land, or two small pieces of
owned land, and then all leased land.
And in our neighborhood,
the leased land is most often leased
either from the National Forest.
A forest service grazing permit,
or it's leased from a retired
rancher who's actually willing to
give you full care of your animals.
You wouldn't necessarily have to show up.
You could drop them off and in six months
later, go pick them up and you would
know that they're going to be fine.
So that happens
quite a bit in our neighborhood.
And so there were some limitations
there as far as the forest service
and the ranch lease as to what.
He was able to implement, from a grazing
perspective and from a calving date
perspective and some of those things.
And so I think he was always receptive.
And actually I remember.
Long time ago, he probably went to
what has now more morphed into The
South Dakota grassland coalition's
grazing school before it was called
that before it was probably even called
the grassland coalition he went to
a course a long time ago and he came
home with a book by Stan Parsons.
If you want to be a cowboy, get a job
and so that, he hit, he had that kind
of introduction to it a long time ago.
And so I think he was always open to it,
but there was some limitations just based
on what we had for resources available
to us and what we were actually able
to change with our management, and he
was always an April calver anyways.
From what I remember,
We calved heifers
earlier.
And most of those actually were heifers
that we would buy, calve out and then
sell as pears in the spring when people
were getting ready to go to grass.
And that actually worked
out pretty well for us.
Aside from the.
Challenges of calving in February and
March in Western South Dakota, but,
It worked out financially.
And so I think he was always receptive,
but limited in what we could implement.
And now as his business has changed
a little bit, he's implementing
some of, more and more of those
things all the time, actually.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Very good.
I'm not familiar at all with grazing
public lands, so I don't know what
parameters are put on you through
that, but I do get the private
leases and that's it's almost.
Every person
has a different idea how it
should be done and one property.
I don't have a formal lease for it.
I brought it up on the podcast.
I do get to graze it a little bit
each year, but it's because there's
multiple people involved and they're
very concerned about overgrazing and
they're just, they're so apprehensive
about it, but they're letting me
graze it a little bit each year.
Track 1: Far as the public land is
concerned they set your turnout date.
And they set
your come home date, basically.
And infrastructure is pretty hard
to develop because you've got
all kinds of competing interests.
And you have to do,
you have to do archaeological surveys
to decide if there's, any Indian burial
grounds there, or anything like that.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh, yeah.
Track 1: so all these kinds of
challenges become part of what we do.
The problem, or you have to get over
those hurdles before you can do any
infrastructure and those kinds of things,
especially permanent infrastructure.
And then the other thing is they don't
care what size of calf you're running.
So I know a lot of guys in our
neighborhood that calve in February
and March, because you can come home
in November from the forest service
leaf lease with a 750 pound calf,
and so you basically get to run a
yearling.
In the hills at the same AUMs as a pair.
And so if you calve in April or you calve
in, in February, they don't really care
how big that calf is when you come home.
So it ends up being a one of the unfair
regional advantages that we have, that
some people take advantage of in that way.
And then the other thing
is going up there with baby calves, I
think turn out to sometime late May, early
June going up there with baby calves.
They're more susceptible to predators.
And so there's, there are mountain
lions there aren't wolves, but
there are really big coyotes,
In the black Hills,
if you know what I'm saying.
And there aren't bears but
there are gigantic trash
raccoons in the Black Hills.
And so, there's a There's those kinds of
things that you're thinking about too with
small baby calves going up there if they
were born in May and June.
And not the least of which is calving
up there would be a challenge too.
So I think that's, those are some
of the things that come into play
when you start to think about
changing calving date drastically
before turning out into the hills.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yeah those
would all be important factors there.
When you were going home and able to
help your parents, what were some,
or how did that work out for you?
Because we know so many people are
working with their families and going in.
And I know I've gone
through that experience.
I still am in that experience.
In fact, if I wasn't recording this
right now, I'd be outside helping dad
with some fence that he wants done.
So how has that worked?
Working with your parents.
What would you suggest to others
working with their parents?
Track 1: I think it's important
to understand who's, who's place
is this, just to be really blunt.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh,
I think I'm sorry to jump in.
I think that is a huge point
and that's real easy to forget
But you've got to remember that.
Okay, go ahead.
Track 1: yeah, no, I
think that's important.
I think from the older generation the
generation that's currently in, in
ownership, it's important for them to
tell everybody who might be the next
generation, what is, what's the next step.
Where are we going from here?
Who has an interest going forward
and figure out a way to decide that,
I really think that the, that it
comes down to clear communication of
what is your role
here?
Are you a co decision maker?
Are you a co owner or are you an employee?
And honestly, if those things
are communicated clearly it, it
relieves a lot of that stress of.
Junior coming home to the ranch
and trying to implement all the
crazy things he learned at whatever
conference he just went to,
And it helps everybody make
decisions for the future.
Is this a place that I want to
invest 15, 20, 30 years waiting
for my opportunity to manage it?
Or is it Going to be better for everybody
our Christmas dinner is going to be
more pleasant if I go somewhere else
and come home and visit occasionally
rather than trying to work here.
So I think that clarity of what
the future is probably the most
important thing in those deals.
And that just takes.
Admittedly uncomfortable conversations.
You just have to be willing to sit
down and say, Where are we headed?
What's the vision?
What's the mission?
Who's next, in terms of
management authority?
And, the bigger the family,
the harder those conversations
get.
As I,
I would expect that to be the case.
But, doesn't mean that we should
be scared of them or run from them.
We actually, I think, Would have a lot
better relationships in ranching if
we ran towards those conversations and
approached them a place of curiosity
rather than a place of trying to impose
our will on the situation And so I think
that's where I would go as far as Lessons
learned is we just need to be real clear.
And once we know those things, then we
can make decisions and we can understand
I'm here to put staples in fence
posts and sign the back of the check
rather than the front of the check.
And.
I am okay with that or I'm not,
and I'm going to make my plans
for the future accordingly.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: And I think
that's, those are all really good points.
That clarity for me just speaking about
my dad, my parents and my relationship.
It's always progressing,
getting better or getting worse.
My relationship with my parents
have just always gotten better.
But granted, some of that
is wisdom on my side.
I'm not the guy I was when I was
23 and thought I knew everything.
And that clarity on where you fall
into that's so important, and what
the succession plan is in the future.
I did some things based upon what I
thought the plan was, and that wasn't
the plan, which is not my parents fault.
That's my fault for not having that
conversation, and that's caused
me to do some things differently.
And had I had those conversations, I would
have started doing things differently
earlier, and so those conversations
while anxiety causing they need to be
had.
Track 1: Yeah, I've, man,
a couple of things on that.
First of all, there's a really
helpful graphic that goes around
social media every once in a
while, about when I was 18, or,
you can go back as far as you want.
When I was five, my dad was my hero.
When I was 15, I kind of.
Whatever.
My dad didn't know as much as
I thought he did when I was 18.
I thought my dad knew nothing, and I'm 25.
It's I'm going to really
going to teach the old man
what's going on.
And then you'll, the older you get,
you start to realize, he's a pretty
smart guy and I should learn from him
more,
And so I, I think that is an
important thing to recognize is that
Posture of humility and learning
from the previous generation.
So I think that's an important thing.
And then your last name doesn't entitle
you to anything, the only thing your
parents owe you is clarity about
what the plan is, really, I think.
Is the way we should look at that.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: I agree.
I'm here because I'm here.
Dad's able to do some things
he couldn't do otherwise.
And I've came it's, it hasn't been
just a straight line here, but.
It's my honor to be here and help
my dad get that enjoyment out of
it as long as he wants to do it.
But like I said, that wasn't me.
I hate to count up the years now,
two or three decades ago.
Track 1: I'm with ya.
There's more gray in the beard and
on the side of my head now than
there was a while ago for sure.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yes, and
I'm finding mine's increasing.
I trimmed this just today because I
can't pull off the Brian Alexander and
Track 1: Me neither.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: It was getting
a little bit long and my daughter
goes, there's a lot of gray in that.
I'm not talking to her right
now, but maybe later on I will.
Track 1: Yeah, the Bible says it's a
crown of glory, so we'll go with that.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: There we go.
Yes.
Now you talked a little
bit about your operation.
So transitioning to your operation and
what you're doing, you have sheep and
you're doing custom grazing cattle.
And do you own some
cattle as well?
Track 1: Just a couple of milk cows.
That's it.
I
live I live 35 miles at my house
from the nearest gas station.
And I live a 70 something
miles from the nearest Walmart.
And so
just tell you where my, how, where
my house sits in the world.
So yeah we try to keep something that
gives milk around because we like drinking
milk and we'd rather not have to buy eight
gallons of it at a time when we go to
the grocery store every week.
Two weeks to one month.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: When I hear that,
I think, Oh, wow, that sounds perfect.
My wife would be going, No, you're crazy.
Track 1: I think the sparsity of the
population is related to the productivity
of the land in a lot of cases, the more
productive the land, the
closer the places get
together.
And so
it comes with its
own unique set of challenges, but
whenever we turn off the pavement
onto the gravel road, and when we
turn onto the gravel road, we're.
At the closest, we're 13 miles from our
house when we turn onto the gravel road
and my
wife breathes a sigh of relief
and she's happy that she's in her
happy place now where the cows
outnumber the people and that's good.
But
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Very good, yeah.
On your sheep are you running hair
sheep, I'm assuming?
Track 1: wool sheep,
So
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: I'm sorry.
I made the wrong assumption
Track 1: oh, you're good.
You're good.
We I, everybody who comes from a
place with high parasite load makes
that assumption because we, and
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: I have
a little bit more rainfall.
Track 1: And we, so we don't
have the parasite issues and
we also live in a place where
we don't have to burn our wool.
The wool is very marketable here.
It's not lucrative, but
it is easy to market.
And there are still people here
who know how to shear sheep.
There are still crews
that'll show up at your house and shear
800 sheep in one day, there, that's
still a possibility in our neighborhood.
And so It makes sense for
us to run wool sheep here.
I think there are advantages to
hair sheep as I understand it.
They're easier to keep in from what
I understand and maybe a little bit
broader palette than a wool sheep.
So definitely.
They're interesting to me, hair sheep
are interesting to me, but we haven't,
we just started with wool sheep
because one of the larger wool, or
one of the larger sheep markets in the
world is 20, 35 miles from my house,
same place where the gas station is.
And And,
it's and I would say 90
percent of the sheep that run
through there are wool sheep.
I've been there for a few
sales and never seen a hair sheep run
through.
So that's just what I'm basing it on.
I'm sure there
I know there are hair sheep in the
neighborhood.
A lot of those actually
though get direct marketed.
They're marketed as lamb to the end
consumer, and so I'm not sure how many
of them even run through the sale barn
on a regular basis, but I know some
friends of mine who are experimenting
with the hair sheep, and yeah, they're,
that's definitely intriguing to me.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: just to
show the contrast when we sell sheep
through the sale barn, we sell them
in Diamond, Missouri, which is an
hour and a half from us to the east.
So as you go east,
you're getting more rain.
I've been to a sale a number of times,
and I'm trying to remember if I've seen
any wool sheep go through the sale.
I'm sure there's been some, but
Hare Sheep has just taken over the
sheep industry in this area, outside
of show lambs.
Track 1: Yeah, and and most of those
show lambs would probably be a Suffolk
or Suffolk cross, yeah.
Yeah,
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yeah.
Track 1: and we're all, almost
all rambla here.
Somebody told me one time
there's an invisible wall.
Between Montana and North Dakota that,
that keeps the Targheese from getting in.
But but it's almost all
Rambouillet Rambouillet Cross.
Some SAM, South African Meat Marinos have
been making their way
in here, but mostly Rambouillet.
Whiteface, wool sheep.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Are you
able to, you've talked about the
market for wool is available there.
Is this through local crafters or is
there a bigger market there?
Track 1: No, there's, again, one of the
largest wool marketing places also in
the world is in, in Belfouche, South
Dakota, which is 70 miles from me.
Same place where the
nearest stoplight is.
Same place where the, almost the
same place as the nearest Walmart.
That's 10 miles south in Spearfish.
But anyways so we're, So they sell they
group wool into pools and sell it by
the container ship load out of there.
I don't know if they fill a container
ship with wool, but they have a massive
warehouse and they just built onto it.
So Yeah.
so I can actually market wool, like just.
I can take, as my kids call it,
I can take wool to town in my
hippie van and sell it there.
I've got a big conversion van.
My kids call it the hippie van.
But anyways, I
can take wool to town in
that and sell it there.
And that's the, that's the
way our marketing works here.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: I remember
going through OSU, working on my animal
science degree, and I get towards the end
and I've got to have another elective.
And, so my friend and I, he was in
the same boat, we were trying to
figure out what we were going to take.
We decided to take sheep science.
And, the professor of it, he was very
adamant, quarter of land, which, I
think it's always funny when they
say quarter of a land, 160 acres.
In my area, no one calls it a quarter.
You go west of me, I don't
know, two hours, then you start
getting this terminology change.
I've got a quarter of
land, or half, or section.
So it's interesting that
change in verbiage there.
But he was all about, he's
Quarter of land, you can pay
for that land with sheep.
Of course, obviously, this is in the 90s.
Wool subsidy was there, and
that played a huge role in it.
But it caused me to always have
sheep on the back of my mind,
thinking, how's this work?
Because no one ran sheep in
my area, outside show sheep.
And then, of course, that paradigm's
been shifting with hair sheep, and
it's been coming in much greater.
Track 1: Yep.
And my dad always told me, he said,
there isn't a place north or west of
Belfouche that wasn't paid for with sheep.
And
as I moved out north and east of
Belfouche, I come to realize
that's the same here.
All of these,
all this land was paid for with
sheep.
Everybody, they call them
the mortgage lifters, right?
And so I think that they are an
incredibly profitable animal.
I think that the reason they're
incredibly profitable, especially in
this neighborhood, When you start to
talk about running cows the way that we
talk about running cows in regenerative
agriculture and calving in May and June
and not feeding any hay or feeding less
than 30 days of hay every year to maintain
profitability and all these things that
we start to talk about as part of running
cows, invariably somebody is going to say
to you, Why are you trying to run deer?
A sheep is basically a deer, right?
It's a smaller ruminant and
it's about the same weight as
a deer and the deer survive.
The deer don't just survive here.
They thrive here.
So why don't we
run an animal that's about the size
of the animals that do thrive here?
And why don't we run them in the
same way that the animals that do
thrive here, Do run and lamb in
May and June like the deer in our
neighborhood lamb or have their young.
And so
I think that it
does make a lot of sense here.
And I think the main reason it makes a lot
of sense here is because this environment
is well adapted to those critters.
And we should probably entertain more
of them rather than fewer of them.
As has been the case, the trend
over the last probably 40, 30 or 40
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh yeah.
Track 1: Slowly reduce
the sheep population,
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yeah for
us, when we figure numbers, the sheep
come out ahead than the cattle do.
Now granted, we're in a really uptick
market in cattle, and that, if you
figure at this point, the cattle
might be a little bit better, but
we all know that's not going to
last forever, and it'll be coming
back down.
. Track 1: You said a mouthful
there though, right?
The cows In record prices like
the highest prices we've ever had
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh, yeah,
Track 1: Are, they might beat the sheep.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yes.
Yeah, and that's when so when you
just look at the income possibility
from them it's really neck and neck
Cattle may be a little bit higher,
but then you go on the other end start
looking at their expenses The amount
of hay we have to feed, we'd love to
feed none, but we're not there yet.
The amount of hay that the sheep eat
is just crazy when you compare it to,
if you convert it to animal units and
compared it to what the cattle eat.
It's just crazy to me how little they
get by on and yet they're, We've covered
a few things, Clay, your journey, just
a little bit about your operation,
not very much, but we're already to
the time we need to transition to the
overgrazing section.
And this happens a lot of
times because I'm too long
winded and I'm working on that.
But the overgrazing section today,
we're going to take a deeper dive
into something about your operation.
Actually, we're going to off your
operation a little bit and we're going
to talk about the Working Cows podcast.
Thank you.
I assume for a lot of people
that may be an introduction.
It was an introduction to Ag podcasts
for me and I'm getting started.
So first off, why did you
start the Working Cows podcast?
Oh
Track 1: Dallas Mount.
So he was, as I said, he was an instructor
of the High Plains Ranch Practicum.
He was still working for
Extension at that time.
I think it might've been maybe, it
was probably less than a year after
I finished the High Plains Ranch
Practicum that he announced that he
was going to take over Ranch Management
Consultants from Dave and Kathy Pratt.
And that was, He was my introduction to
this kind of thinking, and he continued
to say throughout the course of that
class, that somebody in this room
should start a podcast for ranchers.
And I was like I grew up on a ranch.
I can ask a reasonably
intelligent question about cows.
I understand the recording side of it
and the publishing side of it because
I've been publishing a podcast of our
sermons from the church for at that
point, probably five or six years.
And so I knew that side of it.
And I'd been a podcast addict.
Actually the app I use to
download podcasts at that
time was called podcast addict
For a number of years.
And I had all those things.
in, in my back pocket and just never
really knew what my podcast would
be about if I was to start one.
And Dallas gave me that,
that push over the ledge.
And that was how I ended up getting
started in November of 2017.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: oh wow.
So you know your age of your
podcast just dwarfs the age of mine.
Mine started in May of 2020 and I had
some big breaks in there for reasons.
But getting started on
that, I knew nothing.
And, wait, let me clarify.
I like to say I know nothing.
I'm fairly good with technology.
I'd been doing a few YouTube
videos, so I knew the process there.
Podcasting was a little bit different,
but it was easier because it was just
audio versus video with the audio.
But I jumped in and
thought, I'll figure it out.
It sounds like you had
a better base going in.
You already knew a little
bit about the world.
Track 1: Yep, for sure.
And it was it was a little different.
Because I didn't do any editing.
There was no intro, no outro,
no, no theme music, nothing like
that for the church podcast.
It was just basically it would start
with Let's Pray , and that's how the
podcast,
the episode
or
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: a good
way to start.
Track 1: That's how usually the, first
words you would hear on the podcast.
It was a little different in that regard.
But the actual.
Going through and cutting out the,
anything that didn't need to be
part of the actual sermon podcast
and exporting it and uploading
it, all those things were similar.
And so I, I learned through, some
of the continuing education courses
that I did take, like the free
podcast course from John Lee Dumas.
Some of those things just about the
importance of editing and making things.
concise and consumable
and some of those things.
And, so I, I did learn some things in that
regard, but as far as managing the website
and uploading sermons and, or uploading
episodes and those kinds of things,
I had those kinds of things
in my back pocket.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321:
So getting started with the
podcast, how did it go at first?
Did you find it was well received?
Did you, getting guests was easy?
How was it received at
the beginning?
Track 1: Yeah.
Actually as things have progressed,
I can now say that I've never had
anybody finally, or ultimately turned
me down to be a guest on the podcast.
Everybody's Always eventually said yes.
Sometimes it took
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh, okay.
Actually, just on that, I got an email
just the other day from someone saying,
I don't know if you're still looking
for guests, but I'm interested, and
it's someone I had emailed last June.
Track 1: Yep.
It took a introduction from somebody
in their industry to get them to
say yes, but I had emailed them
probably after episode two and,
And so it
took years for them to come on.
But that's all right.
I, I don't begrudge anybody for saying no.
But so guests hasn't necessarily been
a struggle it took some convincing
for a couple of different individuals
but that, like I said, that's fine.
I don't begrudge anybody for
not being willing to do it.
Probably the biggest challenge for me has
always just been managing time trying to
figure out when I was going to sit down
to actually put the episode together
managing schedules and calendars and
getting our time synced up with somebody
else's to sit down and record, those
things are maybe the bigger challenge.
I think that as far as feedback and
reception, I think we work in an industry
where somebody will think you're stupid
way before they'll tell you're stupid.
And they'll probably listen once
and say, this is ridiculous.
this person has no idea
what they're talking about.
And they would be right.
But they'll shut it off, never
listen again, and never tell you.
And I think that's just
the everybody thinks Canada's nice.
All the people on the coast think
people in Canada are really nice
because they've never been to the
middle of the country and they don't
realize that we're all nice too.
And so we're not going to tell
you we think you're an idiot,
but we will think privately that
you're an idiot and then not.
pay attention anymore.
So I think that's probably happened
way more than people have reached
out to me and said, you don't
know what you're talking about.
Here's who you should listen to, or
here's who you should talk to, or here's
the question you should have asked, so I
haven't had a lot of negative feedback,
but that's probably, that's definitely
not because I didn't deserve it.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: You remind
me of an early feedback I got on
one of my, I couldn't say, maybe
teens or twenties on episodes.
I wish I could remember it better.
I hadn't thought about this in a long
time, but you saying that brought it up.
They're like you're doing okay with
your podcast, and if you listen to
early versions of Working Cows podcast.
You can see how much growth Clay has had.
You'll get there.
Oh, I paraphrase that some.
But the meeting was there.
I was like, Oh yeah, I, okay.
Track 1: Thanks.
I think you should have
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yeah.
Yeah.
Leash it was okay.
Track 1: you would have set the bar
higher than Clay's podcast, but.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh Yeah,
I remember getting that.
One thing I find in this area
of content creation, wherever.
Whatever media you're going through,
sometimes getting that feedback it
turns into a one way conversation
and I would love for more two way
conversation, and you don't get that
feedback and you're hoping you're
hitting, you're hoping people it
renaissance I can't even say that word.
I don't know why I try and say that word.
You hope it connects with people and
helps them Take that next step or
when I think about the grazing grass
that next step whatever that next step
may be for you But you're not getting
that feedback back and I come from
education as well and education is very
similar In that you go there every day.
You're trying to make the best you're
trying to make a difference and It's very
rarely you hear back that feedback saying,
Track 1: I think that's
the same impulse, right?
That where they say they're not willing
to send you something telling you're an
idiot, they also don't give the positive
feedback of you're doing a great job,
so it becomes, it can become lonely,
and so I, I
think that's I'll take that, honestly.
Cause
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yeah.
Track 1: I would handle, I
handled no feedback better than
I handled negative feedback.
And so I'm good with,
I'm good with no feedback if if I
don't have to have negative feedback.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321:
I'm there with you.
I will agree.
Now I will say I feel like, and not to
spend too much time talking about me
because this isn't about me, but I feel
like I'm on the right track because
just whenever I'm talking to my wife.
I just don't know.
I just, I get some kind of
feedback that encourages me.
I get an email.
I get something that pushes
me to take that next step.
And I think that's the Lord seeing, Hey,
he needs a little bit of encouragement
here, beyond what I'm giving him,
beyond what his wife's giving him.
Here's you a little bit.
Keep going.
You'll get there.
Track 1: Yep, no doubt.
I have the same experience and I would
chalk it up to the same source that
a lot of times negative feedback,
when it does come, and it's very
rare, but when it does come, it is
paired with positive feedback from
some other source, and most times, two
or three instances of positive feedback.
Over against the one sort, one,
one instance of negative feedback.
So yeah, thank God for that.
Yeah.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: What
would you say some of the biggest
takeaways you've had from doing
the podcast for almost seven
years?
Track 1: I think that early
on it was all about grazing.
It was all about just
the fun things, right?
The things that we really love to talk
about Back to the same reason we're
in the situation we are in ranching
we love the animals probably like the
land the money and the people we don't
really know what to do with that as
much And so that's always going to be
my tendency to write.
I want to talk about the money I want to
talk about the animals in the land and
for me as a At this point now I want to
talk about the land and the animals like
the soil life You know that all
that stuff is way more interesting to me.
The animals are just a tool to make that
better At this
point for me, they're not they're
definitely not the primary attraction
personally, and so So I think that
was probably early on the things that
I wanted to really really talk about.
And I've come to realize the importance
of business and the importance of
understanding this as a business and
focusing on the business side of it.
One way that, It synthesized in my
mind very recently is to say it this
way, it's easier to out business
a bad grazing plan than it is to
out graze a bad business plan.
And I think that's something
that I would have probably, in my
early career as a podcaster and
regenerative agriculturalist, I
probably would have wanted to burn
that person at a stake outside
of the convention center, if
they would have said that.
Because that's the way that
I think it goes, right?
We're very zealous.
We become zealots for whatever
whatever it is that we are becoming
newly introduced to, and then we
temper that zealotry a little bit,
and start to realize
there's more here than
just this one individual.
And so I think that these, this
business side of the thing of things and
leadership and how to have conversations,
uncomfortable conversations, how to make
sure everybody's on the same page is a
really important really important piece.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Very important.
As you Think about your podcast, and
you've been doing this almost seven years.
Where do you think the future holds
for that and for the media in general?
Because I'm asking this Tim Ferriss
on his, I think the latest episode,
he was talking about the future of
podcasts and why he thinks will happen.
Track 1: Yeah, I think maybe I'm, my
head's down too much to really pop
up and think about that very much.
For me right now, the most attractive
direction to go is YouTube.
To put this up in a video format rather
than just right now what you have up
on my YouTube channel is the audio with
a little squiggly line to let you know
something's going on.
And so I'm intrigued by making the video.
More of a part of it.
I think
it's silly not to be on YouTube on
some level because YouTube is the second
biggest search engine in the world.
And so if somebody is searching for a
cow related business practice, I want
them to be able to find my episodes
there too, and hopefully it's a front
door or a gateway at this point.
That's all it is for me, but maybe
someday it will become more of a
focus for the working cows podcast.
As far as the career is concerned, I
think that I would like to parlay it
into into some more speaking speaking out
in, in, at conferences and those kinds
of things that's something I'm still
trying to figure out how to do well.
I've spent 17 years as a public speaker
on a weekly basis, at least once a week.
A lot of times.
Two or three times a week.
And so it sounds weird for me to
say that I don't know how to speak.
Publicly, but whenever I get up
to speak on a Sunday morning, I've
got an outline and my authority
comes from the word of God.
And I know what I'm supposed
to be talking about there.
When it's, when I'm trying
to be the one speaking from that position
of authority the imposter syndrome.
is strong with this one.
And so I struggle a little bit
with the, with finding my voice
in the public speaking arena.
And the only comfort I have in that is
that I asked Nicole Masters one time if
she struggles with the imposter syndrome
and she said, without hesitation, cut
me off in the middle of my sentence.
She said, absolutely.
And I'm like, okay if Nicole
Masters struggles with the
imposter syndrome, it must not mean
that I don't have anything to say.
It's just I'm trying to figure
out what, how I should approach
those things and how I should
speak and
how I can stand up in front of a room
full of people who've been through
natural disasters and blizzards
and market downturns and all these
things and deliver anything to them.
of value.
So I, that's where, that's what I'm
still trying to hone those those skills.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Yeah I
agree on all that front there.
YouTube, I think, we try and get out
there on YouTube, but it's very small.
I'm trying to get in that space.
The imposter syndrome is huge.
Who am I for anyone to listen to me?
But I feel this passion for this, and
this drive to, to share what I can.
So yeah.
Clay, I have really enjoyed
the conversation thus far.
So appreciative of you coming
on here, but it's time for us to
shift gears just a little bit.
And we shift to our famous four
questions, same four questions
we ask of all of our guests.
Our first question, what is your
favorite grazing grass related book or
resource?
Track 1: I think it's probably
Ray Markster's Cowboy in a
Corporate World because it
documents his process of change.
It does a really good job of giving
very practical advice about how to
select cows that fit your environment.
It does a very good job of
talking about land stewardship and
connecting that to our corporate
or our, or not our corporate, but
our city neighbors and cousins.
So yeah, I think that's
probably one of my favorites.
Yeah, I think everybody, you've probably
gotten, maybe you haven't gotten a similar
answer to that question a lot of times,
but I think that's a newer one that
probably should be read by more people.
And I don't know how many people
have read it yet, but that's
More people should read it
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: It's a new
book to me, so it's getting added to my
to read list I'll have to get to it.
I was not familiar with it at all.
Which is always, I always think
it's so exciting when someone
tells me a book that I don't know.
Not that I know everything, but I
usually come across them and I have my
to read list, to be read list, is way
too long and I'm trying to work through
it, but not as fast as I'm adding
books to it.
Track 1: And I think that along those
lines like I have really important
responsibilities At the church that
demand me to be reading certain things
to make sure that I'm able to give good
answers in some of these different really.
And so that's where most
of my reading happens.
My reading relating to, related
to ranching is fairly sparse.
And so I could tell you all kinds
of books that were read by people
who I respect a lot in ranching,
Books by Alan Nation and those kinds
of things that are really important
knowledge, rich ranching and all those
kinds of things, but as far as books
that I've recently read related to
ranching Ray Markster's book, Cowboy
in a Corporate World is really good.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: No, very good.
Our second question.
What's your favorite tool
for the farm?
Track 1: I think this right
here, it's a post it note.
I think that's my favorite
tool for the farm.
If you've been through ranching for
profit, or if you've been through
a vision, a mission and vision
setting workshop, a lot of times it
is, starts out on a post it note.
And I think that if we can get
everybody who is a stakeholder in
the ranch In a room and get them to
write down some of their priorities
on a post it note and put them on a
wall and arrange them into topics and
categories and then develop that into
a sentence that everybody memorizes and
knows and It actually influences our
decisions on a day to day basis, and
it keeps us from doing certain things,
and it helps us to stay motivated in
doing certain things, right?
What we don't do is oftentimes
as important, if not more
important, than what we do.
And then why we do what we
do is often less important.
More important than what we do and
will keep us motivated to do it more.
And so I think that the post it note
is probably my favorite ranging tool.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: almost a hundred
episodes in and that's the first time
we've gotten the post it note, but I
think it's a great Reasons behind that
to do that and that's something I need to
do more of So we're all on the same page
because having that mission statement
keeps you from chasing Everything that
sparkles,
Track 1: Yep.
And we do too.
Our family needs that too.
And the last few months have revealed that
we need to do it and need to make sure
that we're all on the same page because is
it, are we going to stick with the sheep?
Or are we going to go
solely to custom grazing?
What are we going to do?
We need to decide why we're
doing it first, and then we
can decide whether or
not we're going to stick
with it.
And so this is just something that
we're still working through as well.
But I think that the post it
note is more, is mightier.
than the grazing reel.
If we're gonna, the pen is
mightier than the sword, right?
The post it note is mightier than the
grazing reel if we are going to if
we're gonna be, I think if we're gonna
think and write about these things.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321:
yeah that's excellent.
Yes, our third question.
What would you tell someone
just getting started?
Track 1: Back at my career in Bible school
and I, can't tell you how many people came
and spoke to us and told us, don't waste.
your years in Bible school.
You're never going to have another
opportunity like this, where you
get to devote yourself to two
years of just studying the Bible.
And I don't know how many people
didn't waste it, but I know that the
people who didn't waste that time are
probably the exception to the rule.
And I think that it's hard to give
people advice that they heed without,
looking back and saying, man, I wish
I would have heeded that advice.
But I think temper, the zealotry
would be something that I would
say to young people try to learn
from multiple channels of learning.
One of my favorite quotes, I don't know if
it was original to Tim Keller, but he said
if you read one author, you're a clone.
If you read two authors, you're confused.
If you read a thousand
authors, you're wise.
And so I think that, Pursue wisdom
rather than knowledge and do it from
many different sources and even sources
outside of ranching read books that
aren't necessarily just ranching books
read, like you mentioned, listening to
Tim Ferriss's podcast, go get outside of
the agricultural silo, no pun intended,
but get outside of the agricultural
silo and try and gain wisdom from
other places and don't, Just assume
that because somebody got somebody to
publish a book for them, that you have to
believe everything that was in the book.
Just take the good parts, apply it to
your scenario, and forget the stuff that
doesn't apply or doesn't apply right now
and maybe come back to it and read it
again later when maybe it will apply.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: I don't know that
I've ever read a book a second time and
didn't take something different from it.
Because we're all in a different
place, context is so much.
Yeah, but overall just
excellent advice there.
Wisdom rather than knowledge
and don't get narrowed focus
so that it's only ag related.
Really develop the whole
person, whole business.
Yeah.
And lastly, Clay, where
can others find out
more about you?
Track 1: Ranchingpodcast.
com is the best place to go.
You'll find a library
of every single episode.
I think yesterday, episode 352 released.
And if you go to ranchingpodcast.
com, they're all there.
And I, what I like to do when I go to
a place like that, rather than trying
to, rather than trying to consume them
all, I just hit in my web browser, I hit
control F or whatever your browser is.
And then I search for the things
that are interesting to me.
And if one if something
comes up, I start there.
And then if maybe they mentioned
another episode in the course of that
episode, I go to that one or whatever.
So I think that's why I've got that.
That page set up the way I do
is because that's the way that I
like to go to podcasts and figure
out what I'm going to listen to.
Ranchingpodcast.
com.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Oh, very good.
And I just pulled it up.
I was not familiar with
your episode list here.
That's really nice to have an episode
list so you can quickly go through it.
I know for me and my podcast consumption,
there's only two or three podcasts
I listen as soon as it comes out on.
Most of the others, it's in spurts
or I binge listen to a few episodes
and sometimes it's all of them.
Sometimes I pick and choose.
Track 1: Every good idea I've had in
podcasting, I've stolen from somebody
else that My podcast, the original
format of it, and still the format
of it, is borrowed heavily from Tom
Woods, who is a libertarian podcaster.
I've when I became a man, I put
away childish things, so I've
progressed beyond full blown
anarcho capitalist libertarianism.
But anyways.
I still do listen to a few episodes
of Tom's podcast here and there, but
he's got a webpage called Tom's podcast
and it forwards to his episode list.
And every one of his 2, 500
plus episodes is on that list.
And you can go through and search
for the topic you're looking for.
And so that's, like I said, every
good idea I've had in podcasting,
I stole from somebody else.
And that's how I, that's why I did that.
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: To be
honest, I'm probably gonna steal that
idea as well.
Track 1: Do it.
You can tell, I can see it on my on
my stats for my website when somebody
will find that page and there's just,
it'll be one person, probably, I'm
assuming, one person visiting a hundred
different pages on the site in one
cal_1_02-27-2024_120321: Very good.
Clay, I really appreciate you taking
time out of your day and coming on and
sharing about your journey, about the
podcast, letting us know more about what's
going on there.
Track 1: Cal, I really
appreciate the opportunity.
Thanks so much.