Tamar: Source of life

Tamar's story in the Bible is marked by loss, injustice and unanswered questions, making it easy to wonder where God was in the middle of it all. Yet her story ultimately reveals a God who brings life out of pain.

In this episode, Nikita Jensen joins us to explore the story of Tamar and the surprising hope woven through it. Together, we talk about healing after heartbreak, finding our worth in God rather than in relationships, and how God can redeem even the messiest chapters of our lives.

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What is Living Covenant?

The characters and stories of the Old Testament form a rich tapestry, revealing both the best and worst of the human condition—and, most importantly, how God relates to us.

Based on the Living Covenant book series, this podcast explores the sometimes messy lives of those who lived under God’s first covenant, asking what these blessedly unsanitised saints can teach us about living out our faith in relationship with a God who promises never to leave us or forsake us.

 Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Living Covenant Podcast

I have with us today. Nikita. Thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

Now

you wrote for asking Living Covenant on Tamer, and I would love to hear a little bit about why you chose her in a second. But first, can you tell us a little bit about yourself because I feel like sometimes when we get to know the people who wrote these pieces, it actually helps to understand where they're coming from and what they've written. So tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, what you do for work, and in your free time.

Okay. Well, I am currently in Ong because I've got my work just down the road at Adventist Heritage. So that's what I'm doing at the moment for this year. Whilst I'm writing two books based on Ellen White's twin sister and another one that's similar to Pilgrim's Progress.

So that's my mission field to an extent this year. Um. But I do love to do knitting, sewing, and baking. So that's some of my things I do in my leisure time when I've got it. If I had a rocking chair, I would be happy.

Well, is writing a book something that you have always dreamed of doing?

Definitely from a young age I really loved writing. One of the activities I was asked to do in primary school, we were all asked to in the class. It's like, okay, do a short story. And some people would just do one to two pages. I would have at least six to seven growing. Um, so short stories aren't necessarily my forte, but novel writing definitely is something I've been passionate about.

Yeah. What is one of the most interesting things that you have come across in writing about Ellen White or in either of the books?

Well, it's based on her twin sister. Mm-hmm. The one thing that I really love is we have one letter that Ellen wrote to Elizabeth is, the twin sister's name and just pouring out and asking Lizzie, do you know how much God loves you? Come to have a relationship with him so you may know how much he loves you despite the pain and the suffering you may be going through. It's worth actually having that relationship with him. So then the pain does slowly remove over time. It's not an instant fix, and I really love how she was still evangelizing to her sister even despite the different belief systems or even the semi acceptance, Ellen wasn't hiding her religion, her relationship with Jesus, she kept showing it despite the differences.

  Oh, that makes me excited to read the book. I feel like personal letters to people are always so interesting to read.

Absolutely. It really shows another side of a person, especially considering they wrote letters frequently back then compared to nowadays where you're just texting.

Yeah. Yeah. In comparison to say someone writing a book, it's a lot more personable.

Yes, very much so.

Very awesome. Well, tell us why you chose write on Tamer.

Tamer. For people who don't know, she's found in Genesis kind of further on in the book of Genesis, there's not a whole lot on her. I didn't know much about her until I read your piece. Kind of heard about her here and there, but was she someone that you chose because she inspired you, because she challenged you? What made you wanna write about her?

I actually didn't want to write about her.

Okay, nice.

Because there's actually technically two Taymar's, but I only knew about the one in Genesis 38 with Judah. It's, it's a bit of an interesting one because, when I first, received the list, I was praying and I was like, okay, God, there's some really good names here. And some of the names I wanted to do were already taken. I was already thinking of Enoch or there were a couple of other names that skipped my mind at the moment, but then I just kept going back to Tamer and feeling impressed to write about her. I don't want to do this, Lord, because I know a story, but how can I connect to it? It's an odd story. But it just wouldn't leave me the impression.

So I just went, okay, I'll do it. I'll suck it up and I'll ask you to reveal to me how this applies to me. And what really stood out to me was her determination and loyalty despite the circumstances she went through.

Hmm. Was it helpful for you to explore her story? Because I know for me, I also had the same situation. I, was going through the list and I felt like hosea was the one who was, was calling my name, but I really didn't wanna go there 'cause it was, just too close to home. Wasn't really sure if I wanted to share that part of my life with people. And I kept trying to look other characters to write about. Like I tried to find interesting things about, you know, the Enoch and the tamer and I just couldn't relate. For me though, I found, digging into the story of Hosea, a really like healing experience and I definitely connected a lot more with God than I probably would have if I had have tried to create something outta another character. But Was that your experience or? Um, definitely it

was mine. I definitely had that sort of experience. It was almost as if a weight had just been taken off of my chest, as well as revealing other little nooks and crannies that stemmed from that situation there too.

So I praise God, despite not wanting to have done it. It was the best thing for me.

Hmm,

that's awesome. Yeah. Well, you mentioned that it's an odd story. I'd love to go there a little bit because I do think this is an individual who kind of gets glossed over a lot in the Bible.

So can you briefly unpack, I know there's a small number of main characters in this story. Yes. Can you give us like a little family tree explanation so that we can get our bearings and follow you through it?

So this is kind of around the time where Judah separates from his brothers after Joseph is sold into slavery.

And he ends up marrying a Canaanite woman. And they have three sons, er, Onan, and shela. Then eventually over time he marries er, off to Tamer and that's when things start becoming a little bit more interesting. We don't know what error has done. But he does something wicked in the side of God and he ends up dying.

Then Judah passes on tamer to his second son Onan. Onan doesn't want to give Tamer a child. He wants to actually keep an heir for himself, but if he was to impregnate Tamar basically the first son wouldn't technically be his, it would be ER's son. And then since he didn't fulfill his role, he ended up passing away too.

And then Tamar was told, go be a widow in your father's home which was very disrespectful toward tamer, but she obeyed nonetheless and stayed with her father's home whilst Judah was selfishly not wanting his, I mean, it makes sense as well, selfishly not wanting his last son to die because he's had two sons really die in Tamar's presence.

And then within this process over time. Tamar notices that Shellah hasn't been given to her as a husband, and Judah doesn't show any signs that he's going to actually give that third son to her. So she takes things into her own hands saying, okay, if you are not going to give this to me, I'm going to fulfill my role.

I don't think she necessarily wanted to do it, but she knew what she had to do, and the only way that she found the right thing to do. I'd say that term loosely was to be a prostitute and, be impregnated by Judah. And eventually it comes around where, hey, your daughter-in-law who's a widow is pregnant, so she has committed adultery and then says, let her be burned.

But then when she was a harlet, she asked for three specific items that were almost similar to a person's credit card, passport and driver's license for us nowadays. Interesting. And basically said, have a look and see who's this is, because technically it's meant to be both parties that are stoned and burnt, not just the one.

So that's the whole conundrum. And Judah basically said she's more righteous than I am. So that was very interesting with his response.

Yeah. Wow. Such a crazy story. I think she would've been given to Irv was the first son. She only would've been about 13

she would've been quite young. And yeah, just going through such intense, intense things for a young woman, but can you explain why, 'cause this doesn't happen in our day, if you marry the eldest, you don't then get passed on to the next son and the next son. Was that the norm back then? And why was that the case?

It's an interesting situation with there because there's a Levitical Law, I'll read it out here 'cause it's found in Deuteronomy 25 versus five to 10. we wouldn't necessarily find it a good law per se, because we as women nowadays have security in being able to work for ourselves.

However, back then it wasn't the case. So this law was actually to protect women. And that's what God was trying to do if it was used correctly. So in Deuteronomy 25 versus five to 10, to summarize it, if you're with the first son and he ends up dying and you are, you don't have an heir, the second son is to fulfill that duty.

And then the first son between the, couple ends up being the first husband's son. So he then inherits the wealth that, the first husband was meant to get when the father passes away. Hmm. So that's where we kind of have that situation. And it's also because the law was actually oral back then.  It could be confused, a little bit with the Hitite law.

I had to do some research on this. It was very fascinating. Scary but fascinating.

Yeah.

I've read a book and it mentioned the ancient Assyrian and Hitite law. The Hitite law is number 193. I founded the document for it. says, if a man has a wife and the man dies, his brother shall take his widow as wife.

If the brother dies, his father shall take her. So the father-in-law would've taken, the daughter-in-law when afterwards, his father, so the father-in-law dies. The father's brother then shall take the woman as wife.

Hmm. So,

considering tamer is a, I mean, what would be considered as a heathen, you're not in the Israelite faith.

She'd only really have those laws to understand going, okay, well if you're not giving me your last son, well I need to go to you because I need to fulfill this law. And that was part of the tradition that could have easily been mixed around with the Leveritical law .

Hmm. Yeah. So it's kind of like a law that's meant to protect her, but in the end, she wasn't really protected, she was taken advantage of within that.

Very much so. And to imagine the amount of shame that she would've had in that space too, because she's given to her father's home. When you are married, you are with that marital family, so she is part of Judah's family to go back home without an heir, you have failed your family, therefore you're actually treated as a servant, not a daughter anymore.

I think it's like important to note as well that she married er quite young and ER was killed by the Lord for being wicked like that doesn't happen a lot in the Bible, and so Wicked was probably a lot more than just being a little unkind. It was probably like he was being abusive to her and when we are that young and we are being abused, we tend to take on all those kind of narratives, that it's our fault and that we are this and we are that. So she would've been holding a lot of that, I assume as well, because it happened again. She's essentially double widowed with the next, so I imagine that she would've had a lot of self blame, a lot of shame because of those situations.

Wicked in the sight. God doesn't use wicked for many people, for just random circumstances. Almost, dare I say, Pharaoh, choosing to cut off God. It's almost as if UR chose to do that and Judah's sons are also meant to represent who God is to tamer. So the way that their actions are constantly defying God.

And God wants to be able to witness to her. So they're failing in that space to the point where they've just gone, no. Okay. And God's gone. Okay. I accept what you're doing, but not for her sake.

Mm. What do we know of, Tamar's faith in this story?

She seems like she cries out to God at some point. Do we know much about her relationship with the Lord?

Well, later in Ruth, her name is put a very positive, light. She's mentioned in Ruth chapter four, verse 12.

And any time that people have been viewed positively in the Jewish mindset. The names of the family have been brought up.  I guess you can show a similarity where shame is brought into a situation between in the geneology of Jesus, where even Bathsheba's name isn't mentioned, but the wife of Uriah is mentioned.

So the very fact that Tamar's name was mentioned within Ruth, I think that actually shows that she ended up having a relationship with God down the line. So that actually gives a bit of hope that despite what she went through and the pain and suffering, I mean, the Messianic line goes through that as well.

So we all have a bit of mess, but God is the one that cleans us up at the end of the day when we turn to him. And I think that's a beautiful reality that we have today as well.

Hmm, absolutely. So that's not something we necessarily see directly in Genesis, but it's something that we can take note of later on.

Yes, very much so.

I think that's actually really encouraging. 'cause I feel like often things can happen to people and it can take a long time, sometimes, not even your lifetime to actually understand or see how God has worked in that situation.

Like things can just seem like a tragedy. Full stop. So I think that's cool that   we don't necessarily hear the story or read the story in Tamar's case until that later note.

Yeah, very much so. And piggybacking off that, at GYC, the recent ones called The Invisible, and we see we don't necessarily have to see God currently moving in the background, and that's the situation with the Tamer and Judah.

Sometimes  we can pray all we want, but are we doing anything about seeing, okay, God, I've prayed about this. Am I going to move forward or am I just going to stay here and hope that the ship sails and I'm sinking in the water though? Mm-hmm. So it's that situation where  we are living in the day and action. And sometimes what we think is the best action mightn't actually be the best. But God uses what, man tried to use for evil, what Satan tried to use for evil, for good. And we see that later down the track as well for Tamar.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. You mentioned that Taymar she takes things into her own hands and she has kind of a crazy risky plan.

And you know. Drastic circumstances sometimes call for drastic measures or we don't know what to do, so sometimes we just act mm-hmm. I think these Bible characters, they're not really there for us as like moral examples. It's more to learn about how God brings things out of tragic circumstances. And even if we do the wrong thing thinking it's the right thing, he can still make things right again. But how do we see her story end in Genesis?

Um, at the end it's really interesting because as I mentioned a little bit earlier, in verse, so it's Genesis 38 is the entire story. Verse 26 is when Judah acknowledges. The items that he had given her. And he says she has been more righteous than I because I did not give her to Shela my son, and he never knew her again.

Despite having gone through what she went through after that, she ended up having twins and. It's an odd situation, but she had two husbands that were completely rude to her and she managed to have an heir for each of those husbands. Hmm. And I think that's where the bittersweet moment of, despite what she went through, she's got two blessings from a curse that was trying to break her away from having that relationship with God.

So that's how it finishes off. It just talks about her giving birth and the first baby has a scarlet thread around his wrist, but technically other baby birds first, and then the, baby with the Scarlet Thread comes out. So I find it fascinating how God fulfills his two ass and one for each ex-husband basically.

Fascinating. Yeah. You are really in the realm of twins right now.

It's an odd one because when I read it. At first I didn't understand and I just went, yeah, okay. She had two babies. That's awesome. But then it was just kind of look back to what she went through. She had to get an heir for the first husband, and then the second husband, he dies, own and dies because he didn't fulfill the role.

But God chooses to fill both of those voids to try and make something better. And considering Tamar's also put in a good light later down in the Bible. That shows how well she, by God's grace, brought up the sons too. So I think that's fascinating.

Yeah, totally. It's one of those things that you're like, this can't be a coincidence

there's gotta be more to this. Mm-hmm.

You mentioned earlier in this episode that initially you didn't wanna write this story. Where do you find yourself or see yourself in Tamar's story?

Ooh.

Yeah. And be as, vague or as detailed as you want.

Thank you. I didn't grow up in the church, so I think I connected with Tamer a little bit in that way. When I've entered my first Christian relationship that kind of eventually went down south, and I don't know about you, like when you are young, you normally have things that you end up going to for comfort.

And being young in the faith, I didn't fully understand how to be able to just cope with the emotions of a breakup. I tried my best to begin with. I did actually begin with, okay, God, I'm going to your word. But I was seeking for just healing in myself without seeking that relationship with God first.

And so the only thing that I knew to do was to go into other relationships because that's what I did before coming into the church. Because as long as I have a relationship, I am worthy, I'm noticed at the end of the day. And that harmed other people. And when I reflected on Tamer also made me feel like a Judah because I hurt other people in the process too.

And Judah, at the end of the day, he hurt Tamer and Tamer ended up being righteous. So it was like that real tug of war  of, okay, like at the end of the day. Where am I at? Am I actually relying on God or am I not? And at that time, I wasn't relying on God.  But it definitely really gave a sense of peace, where I was able to lean on him more and more after, severing the, relationship after, the first breakup.

So the second relationship. Finished. It was almost as if God was saying, do you want to come to me or are you going to go to your old habit again? And that was where I was like, God, I'm gonna come to you. I can't do this on my own. I've obviously made more pain for other people and I've done an extra, load for myself, so I need healing.

And he's been faithful throughout that entire time. I think it was literally that year when I went to the prayer conference and hearing the, sermon by, pastor Dwayne Lemon about, if you don't have, your love, significance and security found in God, you're going to try and find it in other things.

And guess what? You're not going to find any of that available with man, because people will fail. You, friends, marriages, you name it. And that really struck me with this story. I have heard when I was studying for it, some people just going, oh, do you think she just wanted children?

Because it looks like she's just rushing after that. And I just went, I don't think so because she sees where her duty is and at times in my life, like sometimes it feels like I'm doing the wrong thing. But it's a duty that it feels like it's being impressed upon me, and we shouldn't be relying on feelings.

As long as we've got the biblical principle in front of us, it's going okay. I believe this is the right way to go. Tamar believed it was the right way to go, and at the end of the day, she was found righteous. So that was a good reflection for me on that part and going, okay, this is a path that God wants me to heal on for whatever blessing that might come in future.

It reminds me of that saying, hurt people, hurt people, and I think it's a really humbling experience. I feel like I've experienced this as well, where I was hurt by someone in a relationship, and then from that hurt I ended up hurting someone else in quite a similar way. It's like seeing yourself in the mirror. It's like seeing the Judah in yourself. When I realized what I had done I was like, oh, hectic. Like this is, yeah. Like I think we we're all so prone to that and we all turned to things to seek comforts and yeah, it's a journey. But tell us what you wish you had, have known back then that you've kind of learned, whether it's through the story of Tamer or that you've learned as you've gotten to know God more?

Oh, that's a really nice deep one. I wish I truly knew the simplicity of faith in a relationship with God.

Hmm.

Um. I'm sure there's many other people, like where you overthink things and then with the overthinking you feel overwhelmed, so then you shut down and you just go back to the old tendencies. I actually wish I stuck to memorizing scripture more back then. Because after the whole situation, I did start memorizing scripture every now and again, and the times where the temptations for some of those actions have popped up again.

I'd just go, no, the Bible says this. You know better. So renew your mind, Nikita. Renew the characteristics that you know are bad, and ask God to give you the strength. The value of prayer and having daily devotions is so important. And I think at times it's very easy to be flippant about it going, I don't have enough time.

Well, if I've got enough time to listen to my music or talk with my friends, if Jesus is meant to be a friend, why am I not spending that quality time with him as well? So those were some of the reflections I had, within that space.

I think many people, recognize that they're turning to other things to fulfill their needs, but I think a lot of people struggle to loosen that grip, like it seems almost like an addiction.

Mm-hmm. To go to those things and it feels like they fill us up quicker, whereas you know, sometimes going to God, praying, reading our Bible, it takes a while for that to really like click and it takes a while for us to feel any different in doing that.

So when you were in that period what helped you to kind of like pivot and actually turn your eyes to do this and surrender to him? Tell us about that process.

Was it a long process? Did you find certain things helpful during that time?

Each process is different I think because for this one specifically. it's very natural to long for affection. Like physical affection is quite nice, having hugs and being held and just knowing that someone is there with you.

And there would be times I would just cry and just go, God, I really want to hug, I want to be loved. And I just. I want that affection, and I know I can't find it elsewhere because that's going to hurt someone and I don't want to repeat that. So please, I'm begging you help me here, and I'd be curled up in my bed and this happened multiple times where I'm a very visual person, so he'd give me this image in my mind and each time it would be something different that would just touch my heart. One time it would be like a baby being lifted up in the air, being played around as a little baby with the father's hands, and it was just almost as if I was that baby in God's hands.

And he was like, do you trust me that I will catch you when it seems like you're flying And when you're dropping, do you trust that my hands will catch you properly? So there would be times like that and then other times I would struggle and I'd want to turn to my phone to message, but then I'd speak out loud basically saying, you know where this leads?

Do you want to go down that path again? Do you want that pain to be added on again? In all reality, no. So it would end up turning my phone elsewhere and just focusing on something else to do. And a lot of the times it would just be reading my bible, and trying to find those promises because there was a root cause for my desire for that relationship. For something that would be quite nice, like, people can easily have that in friendships as well. And so it was like, okay, God, please reveal unto me where to go, what to do, help me to read these passages. And he'd always guide. I'd feel impressed to read a certain passage, I'd read it.

But I had to be open to his guiding. Because the times where I was closed off, there would be some dips where I'd end up messaging or where I'd go and do something that I didn't want to do. And at the end of the day, it was just that process. But thankfully, I had good friends that were around me that knew what I was going through as well.

And despite not always saying it outright, their actions and some of the councils they gave me really impressed upon me how to be better. So tho those were some of the things for me. But the huge factor is I was willing to change. And there's times where if we're not fully willing, God's not going to force us so he can convict us as much as possible but we can turn around and be like Pharaoh or Ju and going, nuh don't want you to kill this idol of mine in all reality.

I guess we can see that we want to change things, but still kind of be holding onto them.

Yes, absolutely.

And we naturally go for that because we naturally choose idolatry because sometimes it's very scary to trust God, but when we truly trust with him and all, with all our heart leaning on his understanding and not ours, that's a relational process and growth that is worth the while, despite the pain that it might be at the time, it was painful for Tamar during that time.

Shame and humiliation would've been a huge thing. Yeah. But she was humble enough to go back to her home. And I think that's one thing that is very important, for us nowadays. And despite whoever might hurt us, we can also obey and heal in that space and move forward hoping that God will turn it for good.

Hmm. I like how you explained as well that part of that process for you was inviting God into the conversation. So when you felt tempted to do something, pausing and just asking him a question. Sometimes we do, I think, hear God's response in that and we do sense him giving us strength and giving us guidance.

Absolutely.

Now Tamer has a pretty intense tragic story in parts. I think many people, they, you know, don't believe in God, they grow up in difficult circumstances. Like I know you yourself, you didn't grow up in church and I don't know what the details of your life have been up until that point, but I think a lot of people tend to think how can God be real or how can he be good if he allowed these kinds of things to happen in my life? And I'm sure Tamer at some point also found herself asking these same questions, I think that's something a lot of us struggle to answer. But when we look at Tamar's story. Do we see like a flip side to that picture of God?

What have you learned about the character of God through reading her story?

I think through her story, despite the tragedy one goes through, he's always there.

We don't have to rely on feeling like he is with us. she's very much in the early processes of trying to understand God and there are some injustices, but at the end with the children there is justice as much of a painful journey that is to go through. And I think the way that we can see God's character here. He's allowing people to choose what they want to do despite how much it harms others. But when God sees the pain being inflicted upon tamer by people,  meaning to represent him. He actually rebukes them and it got to the point where he was like, I can't do anything else but kill you because you are harming her in such a bad way.

Mm-hmm. So for me, that's justice. God is someone who executes justice in the right manner. That might seem very harsh for us, but we don't know the full circumstances of why he executed that. And I think that's a beautiful thing when we go to heaven that we'll be able to see that too. Because he's just like, here you are. It's all laid out for you. Mm. And then, later, just with the blessing of his two heirs to cover both of the pains that you had. So she gets to choose to have joy with the children as I said, despite the circumstances she had, but she gets to choose how to grow those children up to follow the Lord,  and God gives that opportunity for her to be able to see the good side as well as the challenging side of children.

And it's kind of how you're able to see the fatherly element of God with us as his children.

It reminds me, of this whole idea, this series is called Living Covenant. And I think a lot of the times we see people inflict things under other people.

We see like, uh, inflict things under tamer and then we blame God instead of blaming Judah or whoever else in the story. You know, we point the finger at God. Um, but God throughout the whole story remains consistent, remains gracious on everyone, forgiving on everyone.

He has remained faithful to the covenant and we are the ones who break that

constantly. Yeah. It's an interesting one to be able to see that because it's something that it's difficult to see in the moment, but when you can reflect, in hindsight, it's just going.

Oh wait, hold on.

Mm.

Because we get so caught up in our emotions, and I think that's one of the difficult things when we are struggling to just go, okay, hold on, let me process this. But also let me just take a breather. And ask why? Like, I don't need to understand why, but I want to understand, can you help me and what am I doing that needs to be like character development.

Hmm. What is your big takeaway from this story? What is the thing that you have walked away After reading and exploring this story?

Despite the circumstances, God will always turn things for good.

Love it. Well thank you so much Nikita for joining us on this podcast. I have really loved learning more about Tamar's story and it's been really cool to hear your insights and thank you for sharing so openly and honestly as well. It's always a blessing for us.

For anyone who wants to read her article, you can find it on the record website or in the Living Covenant book with the rest of them. It is called Tamer Source of Life.

Awesome. Thank you for having me.