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Welcome to The HR Misfits — the podcast for people who care about work, leadership, and humans… but are tired of the corporate script. This is where HR, leadership, and workplace culture get real. Every episode dives into the messy, meaningful, and often unspoken side of work — from people leaders and founders to operators, creatives, and career rebels who don’t fit neatly in a box.
We talk about the moments that shape leaders, the systems that need rethinking, and the stories behind policies, power, burnout, belonging, and growth. No buzzwords. No performative culture talk. Just honest conversations about what it actually takes to build workplaces that work for people.
If you’ve ever felt like you didn’t belong in the “professional” version of work — welcome to the misfits. You’re one of us.
New episodes weekly!
It’s not about the destination; it’s about the story. Through honest conversations, we’ll uncover the moments that define careers, the challenges overcome, and the lessons learned along the way. These are real stories from real people, celebrating the diversity of work and the individuality of the people behind it.
Join us as we break down stereotypes, embrace the unexpected, and shine a light on the human side of work.
[00:00:00] LaToya Davis: People make a lot of assumptions about other people's situation based on what you see in this on the surface. And then you start to interact with them or say things that build on the biases that you have because of what you think you know. And a lot of times you don't really know anything. You don't know how these people's lives are, instead of trying to ask the right questions.
[00:00:19] Ami Graves: Welcome to the HR Misfits, the podcast about leadership decisions most organizations get wrong. Told from the HR seat that actually sees the fallout where business-minded, human-centered, and just bold enough to challenge the people systems that no longer work Where polished playbooks end and real leadership begins.
[00:00:40] Ami Graves: We're the HR leaders who've been in the room when things get messy political or uncomfortable leading with heart grit and a little bit of sass. If you believe HR should be a catalyst, not corporate, theater and leadership should actually work for humans. You're in the right place. Let's get into it.
[00:00:56] Ami Graves: Hey everybody. Welcome to HR Misfits. really excited. This is our first official episode. Our last one was our intro, so you could meet all of us. This is our first, uh, actual episode where we're, we've got a very specific topic that we are thrilled to talk about today. We are talking about the hit show called All Her Fault.
[00:01:15] Ami Graves: And of course, you might be asking why are three HR practitioners talking about some dark show
[00:01:20] Ami Graves: But I think that the reason is because there's a lot of themes in this show that we can all relate to. I mean, first of all, you can connect it so much to, power in the workplace. Being a woman, a working mom, there's a lot to dissect there.
[00:01:34] Ami Graves: So we're really thrilled to dig in. Don't worry, we're not gonna give anything away for the end. So if you haven't seen the show, don't panic. Although we are gonna highly recommend that you, take a watch because it's really, really good. So good that in fact, when Marci was watching it a couple of weeks ago after LaToya and I had already seen it, we were like, girl, you have to watch this.
[00:01:52] Ami Graves: Um, I think she was texting us all night long. You probably stopped at like midnight. You were like, maybe I'll let them sleep. But she was binging, binge watching it and like grabbing the wine. She was like, what the hell, what's happening with this character? Why are they doing it? So we were in it and LaToya and I were like, we know girl.
[00:02:07] Ami Graves: We know. So yeah. Great, great show. And we are here to, uh, we're here to dig in and just dissect it. So let's kick it off. Let's start Marci. LaToya tell me or tell our listeners.
[00:02:24] Ami Graves: When did you, at what point in the show did you say, oh, oh, this is a heavier topic than I thought it was gonna be, and what got you hooked?
[00:02:29] Marci Coppola: so for me. I think the relationship dynamics immediately, the way they just jumped out, where you could just read body language, you detected the tension that existed between everybody. I immediately knew, I was like, okay, yes, this is about, you know, a missing child, but immediately you could tell that. As the mother. There was a lot there where, that relationship dynamic between husband and wife, friends, you know, other moms.
[00:03:00] Marci Coppola: I was like, oh, we're gonna peel back layers on all relationship dynamics, that exists. So that grabbed me right away.
[00:03:08] Ami Graves: when I saw the show, like, so first of all, the show was introduced me to by a friend who was like, if you need something to watch, watch this show. And I'm like, I don't even think I have Peacock. Like what? Like what is it? Right? So and so was like, what is it about? And I'm. I'll tell you, I'm immediately triggered by the title, right?
[00:03:25] LaToya Davis: 'cause I'm just like, see, this is what I'm talking about. Why is
[00:03:27] LaToya Davis: it her fault? What did you do? I feel like this is gonna be
[00:03:29] LaToya Davis: like a female biased
[00:03:32] LaToya Davis: show. So I already went into it with the totally different expectations,
[00:03:36] LaToya Davis: than what it was, but credible source, who recommended it. So I was like, it's gotta be something here.
[00:03:40] LaToya Davis: And so
[00:03:41] LaToya Davis: like within the first five minutes, and I'm like, oh, so now everybody's gonna blame her because she agreed. To send her kid on a play date. Right.
[00:03:47] LaToya Davis: So, uh, and so I was very triggered, I would say in the first five minutes, which was why I was hooked. And so, because I was like at the, you know, I had a lot of preconceived notions about what was gonna happen based on my own
[00:03:58] Ami Graves: Yeah.
[00:03:59] LaToya Davis: Um, and then I kind of, as it started to unfold, to your point, Marci, the relationship dynamics
[00:04:04] LaToya Davis: became more and more interesting.
[00:04:05] Ami Graves: Yeah, I, I, I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, how in the world did this, powerful working mom? this meltdown that she absolutely deserved to have based on the circumstances of the story. But everybody around her, and quite honestly even herself, is. Jumping to assumptions or, and or maybe even conclusions before any of the facts are really laid out.
[00:04:32] Ami Graves: And that's truly what the whole entire show is about. I'm talking about her husband, other moms, even though some of their behaviors were couched in concern, it was
[00:04:42] Ami Graves: are you really concerned or are you just protecting yourself? Right. I, I dunno if I said this, the police, oh my gosh. The police questions were like.
[00:04:50] Ami Graves: I just was like, seriously, this is what we're doing. And then the, those kind of PTA moms on the side, her
[00:04:56] Marci Coppola: Oh God,
[00:04:57] Ami Graves: it just, it just, it just continued and continued. And I thought, oh, this, this is wild. But it's, so, this is reality, right? And not honestly, again, as an HR practitioner, like I'm of course thinking about it from a woman's perspective and a mom for myself, that's the first thought.
[00:05:12] Ami Graves: But also like, isn't that kind of what we do? We all do at work anyways, something happens. We get really uncomfortable with the unknown. And so it's almost this weird kind of human nature thing where we, we immediately have to tie a meaning to it or create a narrative because God forbid we sit with the unknown for a little bit.
[00:05:35] Ami Graves: 'cause that makes us really uncomfortable. So we have to attach a story totally.
[00:05:40] Marci Coppola: it's about control. I mean, the mind immediately panics if it can't create meaning to it or if it doesn't have an answer. And that's why in these situations, your mind ends up being the, the probably your worst enemy because it will take you down a path and it'll start telling narratives and looking for evidence of narratives that are often negative.
[00:05:58] Marci Coppola: And we see that happen in high stress situations. Such as this or
[00:06:02] Marci Coppola: even in the workplace. And the immediate reaction is to try to fix it. But it, it, it always is like that first reaction of, but we have to figure out who's at fault first
[00:06:15] Marci Coppola: and how did we get here? And sometimes it's like, well wait a minute, before we even go down this blame game, let's center ourselves and take a deep breath. Because making decisions from this state of frantic
[00:06:26] Ami Graves: Emotion.
[00:06:28] Marci Coppola: Emotion often leads to even, you know, more,decisions that you see where you're like, wow, this went off the rails. And if we had
[00:06:36] Marci Coppola: just dialed it back in a little bit and taken a deep breath and
[00:06:39] Marci Coppola: calmed the mind and had a rational conversation, we probably could have had better outcomes. but yeah, the show was well done. And yeah, LaToya, to your point, like I was triggered pretty. Quickly too, especially with that one. and I would love to hear from both of you on this because as mothers, the passive aggressive and even condescending tone of some of the other mothers
[00:07:04] Marci Coppola: around women who work.
[00:07:07] Ami Graves: Oh
[00:07:08] Marci Coppola: have to balance work life and being a mom and this, this, attitude towards women in the workplace who are also moms that you, you know, oh, I guess this is your choice, that you, you know, you chose to work. It's like,
[00:07:21] Ami Graves: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:07:24] LaToya Davis: there and. it couldn't have been more than like a solid 10 minutes in where, where you see all of these things have happened. Where it was like for me. As a working mom and having, especially elementary school, it's better after elementary school.
[00:07:39] LaToya Davis: I'll tell you, like
[00:07:40] LaToya Davis: Ami, you could probably attest
[00:07:41] Ami Graves: Yeah.
[00:07:41] Ami Graves: for sure.
[00:07:42] LaToya Davis: full cycle, but I remember my oldest, he went to a private school. Lovely people, but a lot of assumptions around socioeconomic. Circumstances when people are in private schools, especially like, or you live in certain neighborhoods and things like that.
[00:07:59] LaToya Davis: And so, you know, you've got some assumptions based on where people are in life and what, how they balance things. And so you should have the ability to. Navigate this in a different way.
[00:08:10] LaToya Davis: So again, not again, like I went to a private school growing up. My mom was a single mom and she worked in a steel mill, but like a lot of people probably would've assumed that she was like some
[00:08:19] LaToya Davis: corporate, like executive or something that was sending, so
[00:08:23] Ami Graves: Or, or,
[00:08:24] LaToya Davis: her money sending me to her private
[00:08:26] Ami Graves: yeah. Or they would
[00:08:27] LaToya Davis: Working was not an option. She could barely afford to send me there. And so as a, you know, in a slightly different circumstance, I remember when my son went to private school, I felt very much like people were like the whole PTM mom thing. Like, well, you and I had only one child for seven years.
[00:08:43] LaToya Davis: And
[00:08:43] LaToya Davis: so it was very much like, well You only have one.
[00:08:45] LaToya Davis: child, right? Like, I heard those words that I think this is why I, I got so triggered. 'cause I was like, this feels personal. This movie has nothing to
[00:08:52] LaToya Davis: do with me. But it felt like it did.
[00:08:54] Marci Coppola: I,
[00:08:54] Ami Graves: Yeah,
[00:08:55] Marci Coppola: don't, I don't blame you, honestly, that I think it was Sarah Larson was the character's name. I was like, Sarah Larson would get like the unhealed version of me if she came at me like that. Like
[00:09:04] Marci Coppola: it would be like earrings off, like
[00:09:06] Marci Coppola: meet at the swing set like we're doing this girl.
[00:09:08] Ami Graves: yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:09] Ami Graves: Yeah.
[00:09:10] LaToya Davis: Like, you should be able to do this. And I was like, look. I was like the person that was like, tell me how much, how much do you want me to donate? 'cause I don't have time to
[00:09:17] LaToya Davis: participate in all these things. I
[00:09:18] Ami Graves: Oh man.
[00:09:19] LaToya Davis: I'm struggling to get to aftercare before it closes. Like, don't sit my kid on
[00:09:22] LaToya Davis: the curb type of situation.
[00:09:24] LaToya Davis: This is where I am not like, I cannot be in all these, I can't be a room mom. I can't be at all these,
[00:09:29] LaToya Davis: all of these
[00:09:30] LaToya Davis: events. I'm doing my best here. Like to
[00:09:33] LaToya Davis: navigate the best that I can.
[00:09:35] LaToya Davis: Um, but there is a lot of pressure of like. You are supposed to be. And then what I've learned through my parenting journey is that our kids don't actually care as much as, as you think they do.
[00:09:46] LaToya Davis: But like I cared less about the parents than I did about like is my kid gonna be the only kid that doesn't have someone there? Am I gonna
[00:09:52] LaToya Davis: see like the only is everybody doing this but me? And I think what I loved about this is because it did show it in different scenarios. Like, I mean, you look
[00:10:01] LaToya Davis: at the neighborhood, it looked like, okay, this is a very like. upper maybe,
[00:10:05] LaToya Davis: probably upper middle class, working class people. But there were various different situations. There were people that could afford a nanny. There were one parent households, there were two parent house.
[00:10:13] LaToya Davis: There were all these dynamics and a lot, there were some clear biases and assumptions about what that looked like from different angles.
[00:10:19] LaToya Davis: But I
[00:10:19] LaToya Davis: think as this. As the show unpacks, you start to see literally behind the closed doors of all of these different households. And I think this is a good reminder. People make a lot of assumptions
[00:10:30] LaToya Davis: about other people's situation based on what you
[00:10:32] LaToya Davis: see in this on the surface. And then you
[00:10:34] LaToya Davis: start to. Interact with them or say things that build on the biases that you think you, that you have because of what you think you know. And a lot of times you don't really know anything. You don't know how these
[00:10:45] LaToya Davis: people's lives are. Instead of trying to, to your point earlier and ask the right questions
[00:10:50] LaToya Davis: and get to know people, people make assumptions and then tell you what you can or cannot do.
[00:10:55] Ami Graves: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:56] Marci Coppola: Very
[00:10:57] Marci Coppola: well said.
[00:10:58] Ami Graves: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I was thinking, you know, I don't wanna like read too much into it, but I just can't help it to have this thought that I noticed that the men that had judgment in the show, it felt like. It came and went quickly. Like it just passed. Like the police officer made it, made it as like, quick comment or, even the husband.
[00:11:19] Ami Graves: I, I, I think I shared with you guys one of my most favorite like lines or scenes in the show. That husband, oh man, Peter. What are we gonna do with you, Peter? Anyways, um, at one point he's like laying in bed with his wife and he looks at her and he is like, you are just, you just do it all. You are. So, I don't know how you do it.
[00:11:39] Ami Graves: You're so amazing. And then like, there's another scene where she's like, in a bathroom with a friend and, or you know, somebody, another woman, and she's like, I'm so fucking tired of being amazing. Like, I just want a little bit of help, you know? And I'm like, man, amen. Like, I, but I think too, like. But his intention was actually I felt like his intention was pure.
[00:11:59] Ami Graves: I, he wasn't, he really was saying, you're amazing, you know, and, and even the, the police officer, even though some of those police said some crazy things to her, like, I think it came and went, but for women. Man, we hold onto it. We take it everywhere With us. we're gonna have a, a thought or maybe even make a comment to you.
[00:12:17] Ami Graves: And then that assumption is ingrained in our mind. And I don't know that you'll ever get out of it. Like, why are women, so, and it's the same in the workplace. I have experienced this in the workplace.
[00:12:28] Ami Graves: my hardest, I think judgments have been from women in the workplace, not
[00:12:34] Marci Coppola: for sure.
[00:12:36] Ami Graves: Why that? I just, I love to solve that because I feel like that creates so many issues, for women and we, and so we already have it hard enough.
[00:12:45] Ami Graves: think about it, like I, I'll, I'll personalize this a bit. I remember. when I first took an executive HR job, there was another executive, you know, guy that worked there, and he had a bunch of kids, more kids than I had, which I was like, I had four at the time. So I'm like, this feels like a lot.
[00:12:59] Ami Graves: but I remember there'd be times where he couldn't attend, you know, like a dinner or, you know, a function after work. And I was not missing those. Like, like if your executive team is heading out, I'm there like, I don't care. Kids eat graham crackers and bacon for dinner. I don't care what you do. I'm not missing this executive meeting, be at dinner because I understand the importance of me being there and being present.
[00:13:19] Ami Graves: He understood it too, but in my mind, he had a pass if he didn't attend. Like even if it was for the exact same reasons that I might not attend sometime. Now, did anybody say that to me? Of course not. But it was in my mind, I was putting like a, a value on that, right? And so. Again, I think it's partly like the other people's judgment.
[00:13:39] Ami Graves: It's partly our own like insecurities of being judged in the workplace. Nobody said, Ami, you have to be every single one of these. Nobody ever said that. In fact, I have a wonderful CEO and executive team that, is gracious when I need to, be. More present with kids if there's something going on and y'all know about the health situation one of my kiddos had last year and I had a lot of support, but man, I can be critical of myself and just be mindful of how I don't want to be perceived.
[00:14:08] Ami Graves: And so I, I think I, I just don't think men deal with that like we do. I just think it's so different.
[00:14:15] Marci Coppola: Yeah, it is. It is very different and I, I think it's great to call out the fact that was a lot of it was also that selfimposed, you know, it's, wow, I'm really. Putting this on myself, like nobody's actually saying that to me. But there is this quiet internal pressure that I think crept up on women. And let's face it, I mean, we've evolved so much over the years.
[00:14:35] Marci Coppola: I mean, you know, back when my parents, you know, you think about like my parents when they were younger, like my mom had my brother and I, and she just immediately gave up her career and
[00:14:44] Marci Coppola: stayed home to raise us for years. And it was just an assumption that, you know, my dad was the breadwinner and my dad would do that and figure it out.
[00:14:51] Marci Coppola: And my mom stayed home with us.
[00:14:53] Marci Coppola: And you know, what's interesting is that, at the time, like of course, cost of living things were, it was different. Like you could probably do that.
[00:15:01] Marci Coppola: But as we've evolved, like it became impossible. And then if you were to ask my mom, she would tell you, quietly behind the scenes, she actually missed it.
[00:15:10] Marci Coppola: She missed having something else to do and, her entire identity became, I'm a mom. And meanwhile she was.
[00:15:18] Marci Coppola: A brilliant woman who had a lot to offer. I mean, she was, she was always wicked smart. And you know, she, and eventually went back to work later on in life. And I remember watching that and thinking, where's the balance?
[00:15:30] Marci Coppola: Like how do we strike this balance? And it's these narratives we tell ourselves that, you know, well we have to compete, right? We have to be able to
[00:15:36] Ami Graves: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:36] Marci Coppola: men in the workplace, so we need to not miss those dinners or not, and. Like you
[00:15:42] Marci Coppola: said it, then it becomes this guilt and this, this narrative that you're telling yourself.
[00:15:46] Marci Coppola: So yeah, I don't, it's a tough one 'cause I don't know if you can solve for it overnight,
[00:15:51] Marci Coppola: but even just that pause that you just did Ami to, to remember that, well wait a minute. Nobody's actually saying this to me. I'm
[00:15:57] Marci Coppola: saying this to myself. So how do you get to the root of that inner dialogue, I think is the bigger. Place to examine and I that I know that's a lot of what I
[00:16:06] Marci Coppola: used to do in the workplace as a coach, as HR is I would have female executives who would say that to me and they would call me at like seven, eight o'clock at night to talk about work. And I remember I would say to them, I'm like, what? Like what is driving this behavior?
[00:16:21] Marci Coppola: I literally asked an executive, I said, what is driving this behavior that you're calling me at 7:00 PM at night
[00:16:26] Marci Coppola: instead of being with your daughter
[00:16:27] Marci Coppola: who? Really needed her. Right? And she used to say that, oh, I feel so guilty. I should, I'm like, but who's asking you to work at seven 8:00 PM at night?
[00:16:34] Marci Coppola: Who's asking you that? So,
[00:16:38] LaToya Davis: can, I will tell you that I like, look, I was like, you know, stereotype workaholic. Like
[00:16:45] LaToya Davis: I did all the things and, and I had the same assumption. Like I
[00:16:50] LaToya Davis: had to do that. I mean, and then all I ever saw was people work hard to give. And I believe that like
[00:16:56] LaToya Davis: in my. Soul that you had to work hard and, given that I did not grow up in a family who had been in corporate America, then I just emulated what I saw other people do.
[00:17:05] LaToya Davis: For a good chunk of that. It
[00:17:07] LaToya Davis: was, even though I was in hr, like I did, like the people that were at the top, like it felt like all they worked all the time, they were
[00:17:12] LaToya Davis: always accessible. They were, to your
[00:17:14] Ami Graves: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:14] LaToya Davis: very. Visible. They were at all the things and
[00:17:17] LaToya Davis: they, they figured it out like I used to, I remember somebody had told me once, their trick was like, they may have to leave at like four o'clock to get their kids, but they do like a power out.
[00:17:26] LaToya Davis: Like they log back on at night. So I was like, okay,
[00:17:27] LaToya Davis: well then I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna log back on at night, like, I'm
[00:17:30] Ami Graves: Right. That's what you do.
[00:17:31] LaToya Davis: calls in the car and then I'm gonna get everybody's set up and then I'm gonna
[00:17:34] LaToya Davis: do it.
[00:17:44] LaToya Davis: And it's interesting for me, I will tell you, making it really personal, it wasn't until I couldn't do it anymore, like for me. This is not everybody's journey. my oldest child, quite frankly, was a gift and a breeze. And then I think, you know,
[00:17:51] Ami Graves: the twins.
[00:17:52] LaToya Davis: took, you know, I had a very unrealistic view of what this, I mean, it was all working out just. Just fine. We're just the one kid. And for those of you that dunno, I then seven years later have twin boys, which was a total different world.
[00:18:06] LaToya Davis: there's so many, so many unexpected life things happen than that, as you
[00:18:09] LaToya Davis: can imagine. But what you don't imagine when I tell people is like, I, it changed me as it should.
[00:18:15] LaToya Davis: Not as much as that did. Like motherhood changes you, right? Like as,
[00:18:18] Ami Graves: Yeah.
[00:18:19] LaToya Davis: This changed me for the, I think in a different way.
[00:18:22] LaToya Davis: I could no longer like this whole, like, you're such an amazing working mind u balance. This was no longer an option.
[00:18:28] LaToya Davis: there was no world in which I could do what I had been doing
[00:18:31] LaToya Davis: from a work standpoint and still navigate that. No, no matter how much I, I, all of the things that I had in my. in my. playbook were thrown completely out the window.
[00:18:41] LaToya Davis: Two weeks back
[00:18:42] LaToya Davis: into work. I was like, none of this is gonna work. Like they are up all the time. Like none of this is working. And you know what? I felt like, I would probably say this is probably one of those life inflection things. So Marci,
[00:18:52] LaToya Davis: you'll appreciate this for, is the first time that out in my out loud voice I said to somebody at work, actually I can't, I just,
[00:19:02] LaToya Davis: I'm not gonna be able to make that.
[00:19:03] LaToya Davis: work. And they
[00:19:04] LaToya Davis: said. I don't blame you. Like, we'll be fine. Do what you gotta do. And the, the, I mean like almost immediate, and for me personally, it was a man and it made a huge difference because it wasn't
[00:19:16] LaToya Davis: like, oh, well of course you can't LaToya, because you know.
[00:19:19] Ami Graves: You're a mom.
[00:19:20] LaToya Davis: was like, I don't even know how you've made it this long.
[00:19:23] LaToya Davis: Do what
[00:19:23] LaToya Davis: you have to do. You're still gonna, you're gonna knock it out the park. We got you. We got this. Do what you need to do.
[00:19:29] Ami Graves: Yes,
[00:19:29] LaToya Davis: in fact, you might need to like rethink some other things. It doesn't take away from your performance. And I think that I had like, it was liberating and it was also really. Wonderful to finally hear somebody like I had
[00:19:42] LaToya Davis: to say it out loud, to be able to like to get away from all the biases I had built in myself. To your point,
[00:19:47] LaToya Davis: Ami, that like if I ever say I can't do this, this is it, like this is
[00:19:51] LaToya Davis: career suicide, like it's over for
[00:19:52] LaToya Davis: me then, but that's not how I played out. And
[00:19:54] LaToya Davis: subsequently it was kind of like a little bit of a, like it was. Look, I gotta probably had too much fun with this. At some point. I was just like, I say no to everything.
[00:20:02] LaToya Davis: Nope, can't do it. Sorry. Decline that meeting too early, too late.
[00:20:06] LaToya Davis: I'm not available after four o'clock. I'm not logging
[00:20:08] LaToya Davis: back on like, okay, then I gotta control. You gotta
[00:20:10] LaToya Davis: balance a little bit. But it, you know, but it is, it's freeing to be like, to be honest with people and be your
[00:20:16] LaToya Davis: authentic self.
[00:20:17] LaToya Davis: And I know
[00:20:17] LaToya Davis: it's super cliche when people used to be like, bring your whole self to work, which I kind of hated.
[00:20:22] LaToya Davis: But
[00:20:22] LaToya Davis: also, I gotta say like deep down in what that was for
[00:20:25] Ami Graves: yeah.
[00:20:26] LaToya Davis: career wise, I actually would argue to say I've been more successful in my career
[00:20:31] LaToya Davis: until I stopped trying to be what I thought I needed to be, to be successful and, really open and honest and authentic with people about here's my situation, here's what I can do, here's what I can't do, here's what I can try to do to make what you need work.
[00:20:42] LaToya Davis: Or, I'll call for backup, but I'm not gonna be the person to do all the things.
[00:20:46] Marci Coppola: right. That's so powerful. I love that because
[00:20:49] Marci Coppola: it's true. We wear, we wear burnout like a badge of honor, don't we? Like, we
[00:20:53] Marci Coppola: really do. Like, we think that in order to be productive in society, it means being busy. And then we started this game of like one-upping each other. Oh, well I'm busy. I have this, and, and then, and I'm like, wow, we wear this as a badge of honor.
[00:21:06] Marci Coppola: But, it ultimately, and what you were experiencing too, is like, it doesn't make you feel fulfilled. Like you're not, you don't feel great at the end of the day.
[00:21:14] Marci Coppola: And you know, and I think, for both of you as mothers, it's even more pressure because you are, you're trying to fit that in and you're trying to, get ahead in the workplace and you have this mindset of like, well, I have to, in order to get promoted, I have to in order to be
[00:21:28] Marci Coppola: seen. Right. Ami, that was such like a, that was spot on. And, but at the end of the day, it's like, actually what you should do is pause and ask yourself like, what kind of life do you want?
[00:21:38] Marci Coppola: Like
[00:21:38] Marci Coppola: what is it that you want? You know, not what other people are dictating or society dictates. What is it that you want?
[00:21:44] Marci Coppola: And as a, as a mother, it's like, guess what? Like women, mother, in all different shapes, sizes, they have, one child, they have seven, you know,
[00:21:52] Marci Coppola: they have four, they have three. but you're still a mother at the end of the day. And
[00:21:56] Marci Coppola: how that looks is how you want it to look.
[00:21:59] Marci Coppola: And it's so easy for us to judge, like you said, and I think. It's like, but you don't really have the right to judge. Like you really don't. You don't know. So how about like, take a step back and, you know, realize that we're all just trying to make it in this world
[00:22:16] Marci Coppola: and maybe support one another instead of blaming finger-pointing Judging. It's like, where is that getting you ultimately,
[00:22:23] Ami Graves: And I think
[00:22:24] Ami Graves: that's what's so interesting about this show, all her fault and how we can so easily tie it back to the workplace and quite frankly, being a working, working woman, because I feel like motherhood. Doesn't come with grace, it comes with surveillance. But is that really true or is that what I think it has been?
[00:22:47] Ami Graves: And so I have responded to what I thought it was, because the truth is I've always thought that you know, you had to do a little bit more as a, as a woman, and then you had to do a little bit more and more as a working mom. Um. I didn't have those thoughts because I experienced them myself. I had those thoughts because I guess I just had read about it.
[00:23:09] Ami Graves: I heard about it. I, I listened to other women talk, and by the way, I'm not saying that those things haven't happened. I, I completely understand that over the years and over time, women have dealt with a lot in the workplace, especially working moms. And there have been those experiences where, someone, man or woman would say.
[00:23:27] Ami Graves: Are you sure you're gonna be able to do that, do that juggle or whatever. Right? And, but I, I haven't personally ever had anybody, say those things to me. And so I haven't experienced that, but I've still thought it.
[00:23:37] Ami Graves: but the truth is, All of that. What I was anticipating is being surveillance, or if Ami one time can't make it to the executive dinner, she's never gonna be invited again.
[00:23:46] Ami Graves: That's just not true. It's just not true.
[00:23:56] Ami Graves: I'll tell you last year when one of my daughters Cam was in the hospital, and I, I might have shared this before with you guys, but I'll never forget like being in the hospital. I mean, I'm my kid's really sick. We don't know what's wrong. I'm living there. I'm sleeping on an air mattress on the floor every single night, and I remember working a little bit too while I was there.
[00:24:10] Ami Graves: Not at first. 'cause obviously we're, and we were scared. But the longer you're there, I remember working a little bit and my CEO sending me a message or text saying, Hey, you know, like, you don't have to work. Like, you're right where you need to be. Your daughter's the most important thing.
[00:24:24] Ami Graves: And of course, in that moment I was like. For Not surprised. 'cause this is just who he is and, and the culture we've built at our company.
[00:24:32] Ami Graves: Um, which I love. But at the same time I was like, you know what? I am not doing this. I, I had to kind of have that conversation with myself. Why am I doing this right now?
[00:24:41] Ami Graves: There's no expectation that I'm like, I have to be working right now. Well, no, not from them, but for me it was. A little bit of, to be honest, just therapy. Like it's the only thing I had a little bit of, I'm gonna use this in quotes, control over, I had zero control over what was happening in that hospital.
[00:25:00] Ami Graves: I needed to feel a little bit of normalcy. So just let me plug in and get some things done that, like, don't take a lot of emotion or you know, there're kind of some things I can just. Knock off and keep my mind occupied,
[00:25:13] Ami Graves: but never once because I felt pressure from my CEO or even my team or my peers.
[00:25:19] Ami Graves: No one, everybody was so supportive. but in my mind I just was like. Is everybody gonna be supportive?
[00:25:27] Ami Graves: How long am I gonna be here? I don't know. You know,
[00:25:30] Ami Graves: it was that experience that really taught me.
[00:25:32] Ami Graves: And LaToya, you kind of mentioned this, is I stopped at that after that experience with my daughter in the hospital I stopped talking about, or even.
[00:25:43] Ami Graves: Believing in this whole concept of work-life balance, there's no such thing. There is work-life prioritization. There are times when I'm 110% locked in at work most of the time. because I love to work. I'm like, you LaToya, like I, I get a lot of my self-value and pride through work and I enjoy that. so I, love to work.
[00:26:01] Ami Graves: But there are times, guess what? When your family needs you, and you can't be 110% in the office or at work, you need to be prioritizing family at that time. It's taught me, that doesn't make me less, committed or loyal or engaged. This is just life, right? Life is lifeing, you know?
[00:26:18] Marci Coppola: Life does life. Yeah. No, I, I, I really, I love all that. I love what you both said, but it, it's true.
[00:26:25] Marci Coppola: And I think, I go back to a time when, this was years ago, I was a child, like my dad traveled, he was, constantly busy with work and, I remember, they were acquired at the time. The company he worked for was acquired and so he had to, he was told he had to let go his entire team,
[00:26:40] Marci Coppola: and it was a terrible conversation. You know, right
[00:26:43] Marci Coppola: before the holidays, he had to let, he had to let go his entire team. Two hours later, they let my father go after. He
[00:26:50] Ami Graves: He did all that.
[00:26:51] Marci Coppola: and I remember at that young age watching that happen, and he looked at me and he said. I was loyal to this company for, X amount of years, a very long time. I won't say the name of the company.
[00:27:01] Marci Coppola: and he said, you know, and look, what do I have to show for it?
[00:27:05] Marci Coppola: And that stayed with me for years.
[00:27:07] Marci Coppola: But even that situation, I found myself again in corporate America, the same mentality. LaToya like spot on, like I was like. You know, but I have to, you know, I have to, I have to earn, I have to, you know, and I liked having, you know, the job. I liked feeling like I added value.
[00:27:22] Marci Coppola: So Ami, to your point, I think is spot
[00:27:23] Marci Coppola: on. I do love helping people, adding value to businesses, assisting leaders, coaching. I love all that stuff, but it's not supposed to be at our detriment. And we're not supposed to self-sacrifice. We're not supposed to forget that we are the most important thing. Your health, your happiness, that is what is gonna be with you at the
[00:27:41] Marci Coppola: end of your life.
[00:27:42] Marci Coppola: You're not gonna be like laying around saying, oh, I wish I worked more hours.
[00:27:46] Marci Coppola: Oh, I really wish, I wish I nailed that PowerPoint presentation from five years ago. Like, those are not the things you're gonna be thinking about,
[00:27:53] Marci Coppola: And so that is where you do have to open that door and give yourself the out. Around that guilt because at the end of the day, these companies, anything can happen. As you know, we're in hr, we know how
[00:28:05] Marci Coppola: these things happen. We know the market, we know how it's
[00:28:07] Marci Coppola: up and down. We know how downsizing works, and you could be one of those people and it's like, wow. so that loyalty to self, I think, and with that show, like, I remember feeling that again and I was like, that loyalty to self is everything. but yeah, it
[00:28:23] Marci Coppola: was, uh. It was something else that show it really was the relationship dynamics, all of it. And the husband, so to your point too, but the husband was like, it's so important too to make sure you have the right people around you. It's like, man, when you start to audit your life and realize, I was like the
[00:28:41] Ami Graves: Don't marry a Peter.
[00:28:43] Marci Coppola: Oh,
[00:28:44] Marci Coppola: Peter, I would pile drive Peter.
[00:28:46] Marci Coppola: through the desk. Like really? Like he was just, Yeah.
[00:28:50] Marci Coppola: it's, it's so true. You know, so surrounding yourself with the right people as well, so that you don't feel like you have those narratives that are to your detriment is also, I think, an important theme that the show brought out.
[00:29:01] Ami Graves: Yeah, completely agree. How. again, in the show, everybody was really quick to point a finger, everybody, right? Because you, till the very end of the show. It was very unknown, right? What really happened? How did all of this come to be? It was such great, it was such a great show.
[00:29:19] Ami Graves: Go watch it everybody.
[00:29:34] Ami Graves: But I am curious, like how do we see that materializing in the workplace from an HR perspective? I think about it from like. Performance or somebody making a mistake or one situation and then you've got people saying, oh, are they the right leader? 'cause they made that mistake, you know, like the one thing you do wrong.
[00:29:42] Ami Graves: I think people, this is why people hate performance management so much because
[00:29:46] Ami Graves: there's so many biases that can creep in into a, a performance management process. So it's like, how are we seeing this materialize at work? I'm curious from either of you about your perspective on that.
[00:29:59] LaToya Davis: it was interesting. I'll tell you like. Preparing for this show and then also going down the rabbit hole after I watched the show. Like what were other people? Which is how we, I think this is how we ended up, but this as a topic because it was
[00:30:09] LaToya Davis: like, it was like this isn't just a TV series, like this is opening up a conversation that
[00:30:15] LaToya Davis: is very much like something in popular culture that has very much intersected the corporate world, everyday lives of people, especially for those of us in this kinda like sandwich generation situation.
[00:30:28] LaToya Davis: As well, like all these dynamics. But I will tell you one of the most compelling things I saw somebody wrote either an article, shout out to whoever wrote the article or the, blog about it. But they were talking about how oftentimes, and I think that we have an opportunity, especially as HR practitioners to help with this, is the biases that come into when
[00:30:48] LaToya Davis: you think about performance. From a gender perspective, men are usually assumed to be, successful or doing like, it's like they start, like at the, whatever achieved is they've achieved success until they do something, sometimes multiple things that would then change that perception, like. Like all of us have probably experienced, it was like you've done multiple things on the other side of this, and again, I've seen this and I've experienced, and I've poached around it,
[00:31:15] LaToya Davis: right? Because some of these, again, these are biases that society, life will bring to you. It doesn't mean that you really believe that it's, it's how things simply go.
[00:31:24] LaToya Davis: They said on the flip side, it happens more often that women have to prove that they are, that they should be seen as successful. So, so Ami where you, you know, your point earlier is like, has anyone actually said these things to you?
[00:31:35] LaToya Davis: I'd actually say I, I've experienced both. I've
[00:31:37] LaToya Davis: definitely put myself in a box that nobody asked me to be in.
[00:31:41] LaToya Davis: And then I've also been on the other side of it where. I have had someone make the little comments like, well, I'm sure you're really busy because you have the kids. And I'm like,
[00:31:49] LaToya Davis: I didn't say that. I'm actually, I don't even have my kids. They're like, they've been gone for two weeks. Whatcha talking about, you
[00:31:53] LaToya Davis: know, like, but you're making these assumptions. But again, it's like, am I successful because I'm a woman? Or am I successful because I'm really good at my job and I'm smart and I did all these
[00:32:04] LaToya Davis: things versus I've been in that in similar performance conversations where I've heard people say, oh, well, you know, like he went to this school or he did this, person did that.
[00:32:12] LaToya Davis: And so like, I'm sure he is gonna be fantastic. Like he's done. Absolutely none of, none of these are behavioral examples. These
[00:32:17] LaToya Davis: are assumptions,
[00:32:19] LaToya Davis: But you're also assuming that this other person is not able to or didn't do that because of their personal situation, which
[00:32:25] LaToya Davis: again. All of these are assumptions.
[00:32:27] LaToya Davis: And so I say that it's not just gender, it happens in lots of different dynamics. Age again, you know, like family situations, things that you know about, things that you don't like. You know, we make these assumptions and I think this
[00:32:38] LaToya Davis: is where we have a real opportunity. and I have always been, and I think this is where I've gotten a lot of respect from the, the business partners that I've had.
[00:32:46] LaToya Davis: It's like I'm not the HR person that's gonna sit in that room and say, okay, let me just take the notes. Okay, that's
[00:32:51] Marci Coppola: Oh God, no.
[00:32:52] LaToya Davis: you guys came in on the curb. No.
[00:32:55] LaToya Davis: I have a question for you, Mr. Or Mrs. X.
[00:32:58] LaToya Davis: So you've mentioned that
[00:33:00] LaToya Davis: Marci, blah, blah, blah. Do you have an example of
[00:33:02] LaToya Davis: that? Well, you know, it's just like a, it's just like a presence thing.
[00:33:05] LaToya Davis: Oh, okay. So let's talk about that.
[00:33:07] LaToya Davis: Right. So, you know, it's just, you know, I'm just picking up on some things. No, we're gonna keep, I'm gonna keep asking questions until we get to the point where you or someone in this room has the aha moment. That this isn't based on reality. This is
[00:33:20] LaToya Davis: based on your biases. And if
[00:33:21] LaToya Davis: you don't get there on your own, I'm just gonna keep challenging that assumption because that's how we get through some of these things. And I think, look, I think over years it has gotten. I mean 22 years in hr, just me. I've seen tremendous
[00:33:35] LaToya Davis: evolution in these types of biases and mindsets,
[00:33:37] Marci Coppola: I agree.
[00:33:38] Ami Graves: Yeah.
[00:33:38] LaToya Davis: pushing to get out of that.
[00:33:40] LaToya Davis: But they still exist and they
[00:33:41] LaToya Davis: still come up. every season there's always at least one comment where I'm like, okay, now you
[00:33:46] LaToya Davis: know that that's not a real example.
[00:33:49] Ami Graves: LaToya, do you know I had a woman say to me, she's made a comment like, oh, I, I know why you got this job. and at the time I had like long blonde hair and she was making a reference to, the person that hired me, selecting me because,my long blonde hair and I'm apparent a, a pretty enough white woman, you know, it's Like,
[00:34:13] Marci Coppola: just say,
[00:34:13] Marci Coppola: it. We'll corroborate because you're pretty,
[00:34:15] Ami Graves: mean, I, I, and I wasn't say I'm, I, you know what I'm saying? But, but no, seriously, like, and I thought I was so offended by it. Like
[00:34:23] Ami Graves: I'm not, this is not a compliment in any way. Like,
[00:34:27] Marci Coppola: It's not.
[00:34:28] Ami Graves: you're telling me I'm hired because of my blonde hair and I ha, you know, of, of, looks like I, that just pissed me off so much and it
[00:34:36] Marci Coppola: As It should.
[00:34:37] Ami Graves: it, and again, it was a woman that said that to me.
[00:34:40] Marci Coppola: And I was just gonna say, you know what, you know what I laugh about the most because I, as you both know, I do life coaching and professional coaching. And so sometimes the life coaching will be around relationship dynamics. And I say
[00:34:51] Marci Coppola: this a lot to women iid, if you want men to respect us in the workplace, and if you want men to, to give you that respect, then you need to stop cutting down other women.
[00:35:00] Marci Coppola: You need to be setting a better example. And that's ultimately what it is. So in that moment. seeing another woman who's in your position, right? LaToya, same thing, very two very successful women that I'm staring at right now. That to me, matters. So as a woman, I would be like, that's amazing.
[00:35:17] Marci Coppola: That's amazing. You know, tell me how did you get there? If they wanna know that, then it's like, Hey, you know, do you have any tips for me? Do you have any advice? Or, this is what I'm interested in doing, instead of looking for reasons to cut you down in that
[00:35:29] Marci Coppola: moment because it's something inside her that
[00:35:32] Marci Coppola: clearly needs work.
[00:35:33] Marci Coppola: Right. So, but that's my point is like, if we want to have that sense of comradery and we, and we want to uplift other women, then let's start doing it.
[00:35:43] Marci Coppola: you can't cut other women down and make these condescending or passive aggressive remarks and then turn around and wonder why men aren't respecting us.
[00:35:50] Marci Coppola: It's
[00:35:50] Marci Coppola: like, well set the example
[00:35:52] Marci Coppola: like, like, what are we doing? You know? And so that used to always, you know, and that's why that one character that, that PTA mom, that Sarah
[00:35:59] Marci Coppola: Larson mom, the one that I said I would like, you know, she'd get my earrings
[00:36:02] Marci Coppola: off. I worked with, I worked with a woman like that, and she used to make comments.
[00:36:07] Marci Coppola: To me similar, and I don't listen. I have like zero ego to be detected. LaToya knows this. She's worked with me before. I'm not. I'm, I don't think that of myself. I
[00:36:17] Marci Coppola: just show up. I do my job, I go home. You know, I live my
[00:36:20] Marci Coppola: life. But she would make these comments to me, these passive aggressive comments around, oh, well, everyone seems to love you, Marci and dah, dah, dah. And finally I remember I took her aside and I was like, we're just gonna have a private conversation. 'cause I'm like, you LaToya, I'm just gonna
[00:36:34] Marci Coppola: like, this is why I'm also an HR misfit. 'cause I'm like, I'm just gonna have this direct conversation with you so we can get it all out.
[00:36:40] Marci Coppola: And that literally is the conversation I had with her.
[00:36:43] Marci Coppola: I said, how do you expect. To get, men to respect you. 'cause you're complaining that you wanna climb the corporate ladder and you feel these other men are getting, I said, but here you are cutting me down and making these comments. I
[00:36:55] Marci Coppola: said, did you even look at my background? Do you even know my experience?
[00:36:58] Marci Coppola: Or are you making assumptions that you think I was hired based on my looks or based on this or
[00:37:04] Marci Coppola: that? I said, what are we doing here?
[00:37:07] Marci Coppola: And I'll tell you, she shut up real quick.
[00:37:09] Marci Coppola: She literally had not, like, she couldn't come back and, and offer anything 'cause she knew that I was right.
[00:37:15] Ami Graves: Yeah, I should have had that conversation, Marci. I just didn't have the guts in that moment and I would do it now. I think now I feel a lot more comfortable addressing those things and like, and I think the way we address it as when is so important, like it's respectful, it's, it's the kindness sandwich, but you have to be direct also.
[00:37:35] Ami Graves: And
[00:37:35] Ami Graves: I wasn't. Able to be that way in that moment, 10 years ago or whatever. But, certainly I think it's those experiences that you look back on and you, you learn from, you know, and, and you do it differently going forward and you become such an advocate for other women who, that they could be experiencing that.
[00:37:53] Ami Graves: Because now I'm very quick. I will never forget I had this experience, a handful of years ago. I was on a phone call and, with a a, a co, another executive woman and, um, a, a a a male employee. he wasn't an executive, but he was like, you know, he still is a people leader in the business and highly respected, had been there a long time.
[00:38:12] Ami Graves: And I'll never forget at the end of the call, he said, Hey, I'm just gonna call her Katie. Um, Hey Katie, do you mind, setting up that meeting? And he, it was his like, project, his thing to drive and he said to her, Hey, do you mind kind of setting that up? And she was kind of a more timid, quiet, reserved, but wicked smart, like doing all the right things.
[00:38:35] Ami Graves: and I, I just finally in that moment just chimed in and I said, actually. I'll call him Steve, actually, Steve, Katie, like you has a ton of things going on too. So if this is your kind of thing that you're leading, if you could set the meeting up, that would be great. Katie's not gonna be able to do that for you.
[00:38:51] Ami Graves: And I just couldn't believe that. And she called me right after. I was like, thank you for doing that. I couldn't, she's like, it pissed me off that he even asked me like, like, I'm here to fet you water and schedule meetings all day long. are you kidding me? So again, I've witnessed it. And,we have to be able to advocate for each other instead of
[00:39:09] Marci Coppola: we do.
[00:39:10] Ami Graves: tear each other down.
[00:39:10] Ami Graves: As women, it just, it's a must.
[00:39:12] LaToya Davis: Totally,
[00:39:12] Ami Graves: We could go on for hours about this 'cause there's so much like to unpack in this show. But I just wanna really wanna encourage everybody to watch and listen and, draw your own conclusions about.
[00:39:22] Ami Graves: I mean, of course what happens at the end? 'cause isn't that what it's all about? but also I think you will absolutely draw conclusions to how it relates to your life, your workplace. I know I have, I know the three of us have, we've talked about it quite a bit and um, it's just a very meaningful. Show that to LaToya's point earlier, it's not just a show, it's, it's bringing about a dialogue that is so important, which is why I'm so glad we're having this as our first kickoff show where we're talking about this, this, uh, this series called All Her Fault.
[00:39:52] Ami Graves: It's very good. Any parting words, LaToya or Marci?
[00:39:55] Marci Coppola: I, you know, I think that. for HR family out there, male, female. I think that not only from a personal perspective, but from a professional perspective to some of the points we made a lot of leadership coaching examples to be taken from this movie. So, you know,
[00:40:09] Ami Graves: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:10] LaToya Davis: all intents and purpose, you can consider it like work time, like I think you should totally watch this during business hours.
[00:40:14] LaToya Davis: But, uh.
[00:40:17] Ami Graves: I agree with that.
[00:40:18] LaToya Davis: It will take you down a rabbit hole. It's
[00:40:20] LaToya Davis: like, it's gonna be like an eight hour ordeal, but it, it really is like, there were so many things that, that I, I have seen come up and I, I've now, it's been a few weeks since I've seen it, and, and I saw before the performance cycle and so I was able to use some of these, like
[00:40:34] LaToya Davis: examples. But again, I. Use that as a, as an opportunity just to kind of like also help people to connect dots that maybe they don't see. Like, again, I, I think what we all talked about is like there were several characters and circumstances in there that I saw myself in, but I also saw people around me that have been in like different life dynamics.
[00:40:51] LaToya Davis: And I think sometimes for people it's easier to see to. To, instead of just telling people what they need to hear, sometimes they need to see it. And even though this is just, quote unquote a fictional story, I don't know if it's that fictional. It's a little bit too close to home in too
[00:41:03] LaToya Davis: many different ways.
[00:41:05] LaToya Davis: but I'm sure it's based on a lot of experience. But I, my takeaway for people is to take that lens and use it to draw examples. I mean, I know it's probably been a while since we use videos and things like that too.
[00:41:14] LaToya Davis: Bring our points home, but this might be an opportunity to,
[00:41:17] LaToya Davis: to, to use this in your coaching conversations with leaders or how you, how you, coach other leaders that you're around to, to see themselves in some of the circumstances that they may have biases with.
[00:41:28] Marci Coppola: I love
[00:41:29] Ami Graves: I love that.
[00:41:29] Marci Coppola: Yeah. So spot on and I know we're gonna probably unpack more around the performance conversation 'cause I know the
[00:41:35] Marci Coppola: three of us very
[00:41:36] Marci Coppola: passionate about.
[00:41:39] Ami Graves: That's a future episode for.
[00:41:40] Marci Coppola: we, yeah, absolutely. We have a lot to talk about around that. No, I love that, LaToya, it's, it's so spot on because I think it, it's true.
[00:41:47] Marci Coppola: It's like that, that assu those assumptions that get made and the bias that does creep in, and I agree with you, it, over the years, like things really have evolved. I think we're, we've luckily moved in the right direction, but I think. I think that radical candor sometimes is necessary, you know, and I'm not saying, you know, hey, call the person out in a public setting.
[00:42:05] Marci Coppola: In fact, I always
[00:42:05] Marci Coppola: advise against that. Like, take the person aside, you know, have
[00:42:08] Marci Coppola: that, but challenging, challenging in the room is such a powerful thing, and it's necessary because it's not about calling the person out or embarrassing them. It's about making us all better,
[00:42:18] Marci Coppola: right? Because. I don't know anybody that doesn't or hasn't experienced sometimes where you, you could potentially have a bias creep in and you catch yourself.
[00:42:25] Marci Coppola: You're like, Ooh, wait a minute. Maybe I'm making an assumption. And so none of us are perfect, and I think it's so important and powerful then to have that conversation and not shy away from it because it does, it makes you better and it does maybe challenge those assumptions a little bit and how we show up and how we work together and collaborate with one another. Is professional, but it's also personal, so we can't forget that. So I, I loved what this show did, and thank you to both of you for, making me binge watch it. And I did sit and watch it and all in one setting and I was like, oh my gosh, I was hooked. And the ending. So highly recommend the show because just when you think you,
[00:43:03] Marci Coppola: by episode like five or six, I was like, oh, I wonder where this is going.
[00:43:06] Marci Coppola: And then I was like, what? Like, it just, it really got crazy towards the end. So yeah, highly recommend,
[00:43:12] LaToya Davis: almost everyone in the show, except for like the, the older woman at the beginning, no, I think I had had her pegged at one point
[00:43:19] LaToya Davis: too. So no, everyone in the
[00:43:20] LaToya Davis: show was a possible suspect
[00:43:22] LaToya Davis: as far as I'm concerned, for the whole entire show at some
[00:43:25] Ami Graves: Yeah. And it, and it kept switching, like I see. Oh, no, no, no, no. It's her. Oh, no, no. Oh, Oh,
[00:43:30] LaToya Davis: oh, yeah,
[00:43:31] Ami Graves: Yeah, I couldn't Yeah. Till the very end. Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:34] Marci Coppola: was like, wow, you really don't like anybody. I was like, everyone
[00:43:37] Marci Coppola: is.
[00:43:38] LaToya Davis: Everyone's a
[00:43:38] LaToya Davis: problem.
[00:43:39] Marci Coppola: Everyone is a
[00:43:39] Marci Coppola: problem. everyone.
[00:43:41] Ami Graves: That's right.
[00:43:42] Marci Coppola: So yeah, it was
[00:43:43] Marci Coppola: really well done. So yeah, highly, highly recommend on Peacock.
[00:43:46] Ami Graves: That's great. my, my parting words and LaToya and Marci, such great advice. My parting words would be, it can be lonely in hr, particularly the higher you go in hr. So find a person that you trust,
[00:44:00] Ami Graves: a mentor, a friend, a confidant. You don't have to use names and divulge, you know, information that's confidential of course, but like, find that person that you really, really trust and can count on.
[00:44:12] Ami Graves: So they can, so you can kind of run your own biases by them. Because the truth is we all have them. Even us in hr, we might be a little more, In tune sometimes with these things so we can check them ourselves, but we, no one's perfect and we make mistakes and we need those people to speak truth into our lives too and say, ah, I don't know about that.
[00:44:32] Ami Graves: Ami, did you think about it from this perspective? Did you do what LaToya said? And say and and Marci and say, well, why? Give me an example. And then you can kind of talk through it. And then it's so helpful to have that, that person that, That sounding board that you really can't trust and rely on.
[00:44:46] Ami Graves: So find those people. Those are your people. Thank you for tuning in to the HR Misfits, our very first episode based on the show, all Her Fault,We will see you again soon. Bye.
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