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Unashamed Unafraid is a show dedicated to being unashamed about sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing. Pornography and sexual addiction are not something you are stuck with to manage your whole life. We share real stories of recovery, the best resources, information from experts, and answer anonymous questions with those who know. All to help you on the path of being 100% healed from pornography and sexual addiction.
Speaker 17: Tryna walk the walk.
Truth on the mic, no shame
here, just real talk.
Came from the outside, never fit in.
Now we tell the story
and the healing begins.
No front, no mask, just telling the truth.
Keep it real, keep it raw,
speaking straight from the booth.
If you feeling like an
outsider, this one's for you.
Uh.
Yeah
Sam: Welcome to another episode of
Unashamed, Unn afraid . We are unashamed
of sexual addiction recovery and unafraid
of coming unto Christ for healing
. Typically on
livv Unn ashamed Episodes we'll discuss a
topic that we need to work on in recovery
or that we're experiencing, and then we'll
commit, like, "This is what I need to do.
This is my next step in recovery."
But what we haven't done is come
back and say, "How are you doing
on that commitment that you made?"
Me, James, and Joshua are gonna
follow up on episode 151, which
was literally over a year ago.
Where we talked aboutâ Mm ⦠does anyone
remember the title of that episode?
Filling the Void of Addiction,
I believe- That's it.
That's what it was.
That's it.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker: And it was
Joshua's first episode.
Then Mason's gonna follow up on,
uh, some of the stuff he's been
learning and experiencing kind of in
his journey with God, since that's
a little bit more of a new thing.
Speaker 2: Referencing
what episode, roughly?
. Speaker 4: 193, How Can I Trust God?
Speaker: Yeah, we probably
recorded it about three months ago.
Yeah.
So let's do it.
James, I want you to start first because
Speaker 2: i'm the Cool old guy.
Uh, accountability to 151.
What did I say I needed to
be accountable for in 151?
Speaker 3: You said, uh- You'd
specifically talked about how when you
were, having occasional slip-ups- Yeah
you said they were, like, once
every six months or something,
but you were just kind of ignoring
them- Sure ⦠and not really being
accountable for them- Yeah ⦠and
Speaker: you wanted to change that.
Right.
And I think, if I remember correctly,
Chris kinda challenged you, like,
"What do you actually need to do in
recovery- to get to the place where
you feel like you are sober-" Mm-hmm.
"⦠you are recovered?"
Speaker 2: Mm.
Speaker: And you said-
Speaker 2: Probably be accountable
⦠Speaker: probably be accountable.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
All right.
So to report back, I decided to
be accountable, and for me, that
just I just needed to put some
accountability software on my phone.
I knew that I could probably figure out
how to override it, but I didn't try.
I didn't want to learn how it worked.
I tried not to learn how it worked.
I just assumed that it was recording
everything and that I would have to
be accountable for whatever happened.
So to this day, I have not bothered
to learn how it works Or tried to
figure out what the loopholes are.
I'm just gonna assume that it works, and
if I were to choose to engage that I would
have to talk about it with my people.
Speaker 3: Which software
did you download?
Speaker 2: I went with EverAccountable.
Speaker 3: Right on.
That's what I use.
Speaker: It's such a cool way
that you describe that, though.
It's so different than what
I've tried, which is I ramped up
accountability before I did any
healing in order to try to bypass-
The healing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it didn't work, I always say I spent
half my life setting up the filters
and half my life getting around them.
Yeah.
Them.
So that's what's really cool is
accountability done in a healthy way-
Yeah ⦠is a critical piece of recovery.
Speaker 2: Yep.
And, like, I needed accountability at
the beginning of the process to come
out of hiding, to learn to be honest,
for me, I probably, in that episode
we kinda talked about how it has
come and gone and evolved over time.
And I was right in that, yeah, I needed
to be accountable, and so I got that
software over a year ago, and surprise,
surprise, I'm over a year sober.
No slip-ups, nothing.
Speaker 3: Well, it's easy to be
accountable when you never act out.
Speaker 2: So, right.
And- Yep.
Way to
Speaker 3: go.
Speaker 2: It just, just knowing
that I was going to have to tell my
accountability partners, my wife, other
people, that was enough to be a deterrent-
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Yeah
⦠Speaker 2: uh, to the occasional slip-ups.
'Cause I was like, there was
no ramifications last time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was just like,
"Eh, I can slip up if I want to.
Every six months, it's not a big deal.
It's only a a couple minutes."
Like, I just didn'tâ¦
I kind of had gotten past, a lot of the
things that made pornography real rough
from a shame standpoint and all that.
It wasn't a big monster
in my life anymore.
It was just this thing that kinda
popped up that- Mm-hmm ⦠didn't
have a lot of energy for me anymore.
And so, accountability worked.
Speaker: Do you feel any different?
Because I know, like, for me, often
I have based my worth on sobriety
. Speaker 2: I guess if I feel different,
the only thing that feels different
is I just feel, proud of myself.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know?
Um,
like I'm just proud of the-
Speaker 3: You were in a
pretty good place, I think-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 3: before, too.
Speaker 2: I'm just proud of myself
for taking the final steps and working
through the whole process and for
it to have taken me, , 13 years
to really kinda get to this point,
like, for me, that was m- my journey.
I know some guys are faster at that,
and some are slower, and for me,
that was the speed that I needed.
I had felt for a long time that I was
essentially healed from a lot of the
stuff that was really driving it, and
now it was just sort of some old kinda
patterns or habits or nonchalance
that was causing me to just go
ahead and be like, "Yeah, whatever."
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Part of the "Eh,
whatever," was part of the healing.
I needed to make it so it wasn't so big
a monster and have it not define me, and
not have it all of a sudden be like, well,
if I looked at it, I'm not worthy to be
loved, not worthy to be in connection with
myself or with God or with anybody else.
I just had to go through
a healing process.
Have I had a temptation come
in, i- over the last year?
Yeah.
But I'm like, I'm just not going to."
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that was enough
Speaker 4: That's super, hopeful for
me to, know that somewhere down the
line, there can come a time where
you're not gonna have to be fighting
it every single moment all the time.
'Cause I feel like right now,
one temptation comes in and it's
like, "Ah, no, I don't wanna do that."
And then another one, then another one-
Right, right ⦠another one, eventually.
And so It's nice to hear that you've
gotten to a place where your values
are taking over and it's like, "Yeah,
no, I don't wanna do that," and then-
Yeah
it's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean- And obviously-
⦠values, it took a lot of healing.
It took a lot of- Sure
⦠perception shifts, therapy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, obviously-
You know ⦠13 years, right?
It hasn't come easy.
Yeah.
But-
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: Hmm ⦠it's nice
to know that it can come
.
Speaker 3: How about you, Sam?
What'd you,
Speaker: uh, commit to?
My commitment duringâ¦
I, I think was just to have aâ¦
to begin the process of developing
true connection with brothers
, which, a year ago, I sucked at.
In a non-shaming way of
myself, I was just terrible
Sam: at
Speaker: it.
I had no idea.
I had so much wounding
that I hadn't overcome.
I had a lot of stuff I was still
processing with my relationship with
my dad, and if, if your relationship
with your dad is like my relationship
was with my dad, then you've
learned a pattern of relating to
men that's very emotionally distant.
And so I just didn't see the
need for relationships with men-
Speaker 3: Hmm
Speaker: because I did just fine, in
quotations, without it for so long . And,
you know, I, I actually prayed for that
multiple times following that episode.
"God, lead me to the brothers.
I don't know where they are.
I need to find safe people in my life."
Speaker 2: Yeah.
" Speaker: Can you help me find them?"
Mason's sitting in the chair right there.
Joshua's sitting in the chair right there.
In fact, it's funny, I didn't
know that, Joshua, that we were
gonna become such good friends.
Been- While we were talking about
that- ⦠talking about it, yeah ⦠in
that episode The night where
Speaker 2: you heard the episode,
Speaker: that's awesome.
And we're very close.
, I came to your house
after you had surgery.
I've, you know, we've, we- Had dinner at
Speaker 3: my house
⦠Speaker: me and Jasmine- Met my
kids ⦠have come over to your house.
We've come to your daughter's-
Speaker 3: We took a ballet with us.
Speaker: Yeah, we, we came
to your daughter's ballet.
I considerâ¦
I mean, the, there's a, certainly a
geographical distance that's hard to
kinda conquer there, but we've just
become super close, now, what's left
for me to do in that work is, I just
got married within the last year, , I
think what I've noticed over the past
three months is that my moods often tend
to be severely affected by her moods
. Speaker 2: even when she's-
That's called codependence.
Speaker: Exactly.
I've relied on her to regulate
me emotionally way too much.
And that's no recipe for
recovery . so that's where I'm at.
I'd like to get to a point where
I'm reaching out more . I have
the brotherhood, it's a matter
of using it more often- So-
⦠Speaker 2: so
Speaker: I can get healthy
⦠Speaker 2: can, can you share with
our listeners, 'cause I know a lot
of guys out there would love to find
some brotherhood, what steps did you
take to cultivate the brotherhood?
Like, you were praying, "Hey, God, help me
ha- have, have some brothers in my life."
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, fortunately for you,
you were at a podcast and the two of
you- Yeah ⦠were there, so thatâ¦
Speaker: Well, that's how any, that's
how any- Right, it's- ⦠authentic
relationship is gonna come up, is
you're gonna meet someone somewhere.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker: Right?
And it was random for me as
well, but here's what happened.
Like-
Speaker 2: So like, I'm
imagining someone's going
like, "Well, how do you know?"
Yeah.
"How, how do I do it?"
Speaker: Yeah, so two
things that, that happened.
I started sharing my heart with
people who I, when I started
to feel like, "You know what?
This, this is a person who I
could share my heart with."
I was looking for it actively,
and I was praying for it.
That was number one.
Number two, and, uh, Mason, I hope
you, you're, you're, uh, okay if I
share this, but Chris actually set
me and Mason up- ⦠to go to lunch
. Speaker 4: Hmm.
Oh, yeah.
Speaker: And Mason, I, I don'tâ¦
Speaker 4: Well, what happened was
Steve, Steve was like, "Yo, Sam's
our boot camp's unofficial salesman."
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And I gave you a call.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: We met at boot camp,
and then we went to lunch.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then the
bromance was just born.
Speaker: Yes, but, but
before that, hold on.
Before that, though- A blind
date set up ⦠before that, I
actually went to Chick-fil-A.
Do you remember you missed lunch?
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Yeah.
And what I didn't do-
Right ⦠is spell you off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right.
Yeah.
But
Speaker 3: that's what we're doing
Speaker: now.
Like, you, you missed lunch
with me, and I showed up at
Chick-fil-A, and you never showed.
mm-hmm.
But I was like, "I'm gonna give him
a second chance-" Mm ⦠" 'cause
he seems like a cool dude."
Speaker 4: Mm.
Thank goodness.
Speaker 3: Mm.
Speaker: What I didn't do is just accept
that I was always gonna be alone and
that, like, I couldn't trust anyone.
Yeah.
I gave it a second chance, and now,
like, you're my best friend, dude.
Like, we- Yeah ⦠we
talk about, like- Love
Speaker 4: you, dude ⦠I had
Speaker: a slumber party
with you the other day.
You remember that?
Yeah.
Yeah, dude.
So, uh, and, uh, I just
genuinely believe in the power
of giving people a second chance.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker: Like, if you wanna develop
a relationship- I love it ⦠you
need to battle for people.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
And you- That's something, that's
something you do for me all the time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Just this last week, I, I
totally overbooked myself didn't show
up to you, Cap, and you were like,
"Bro," I texted you and you called
me, and you were just like, "Bro, just
letting you know, don't feel any shame.
You're good.
Battle on for your heart."
Totally changed it for me.
Speaker: Yeah, I could hear
the relief in your voice, dude.
Oh,
Speaker 4: so big.
Yeah.
' Speaker: Cause I know you well
enough now to know- when you didn't
show up for UCAP, you were, like,
Speaker 4: I was in my
head for sure ⦠you know?
Yeah, dude.
Speaker: And I was just like, "Hey, dude-
" Speaker 4: Is he gonna be pissed at me?"
⦠Speaker: battling for your heart."
Speaker 4: Yeah.
" Speaker: You and I are good.
I love you."
Yeah.
, Speaker 3: Everybody needs that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Joshua, you're up, dude.
Speaker 3: Sounds good.
So 151, was, like, my first time coming
on here, and I was, I was nervous.
You were scared so bad,
Speaker: dude.
Speaker 3: And then you guys asked
me a question, and if you go back and
listen, you'll just, you'll, they'll
be like, "So how about you, Josh?"
And I'm just like, I had blacked
out, and I was like- ⦠"I
don't know what you just said.
Help me out here."
And they asked again, and we kinda left
with me being like, "Maybe connection?
I don't know."
Uh, but, , there was something that
Chris said afterwards, actually,
that really connected with me,
which was to trust God more.
And I, I mentioned this in a different
episode we recorded today, but I, I do
tend to, Let God be my crisis manager.
You know, when things are going good,
it's easy for me to just forget about God.
And a lot of times too, uh, even
though He's shown up for me so many
times, I'll still find myself going,
"Man, is He, is He gonna do it again?
Is He gonna show up again
I just won't pray, 'cause I'm like, "Well,
what if He, what if He doesn't show up?"
And then I go back and think about
experiences I've had and, and
it's just like, it's, it's silly
for me to not trust Him anymore.
And I-- and that was what Chris
talked about a lot, was like, "I
need to be better at trusting God."
And when he mentioned that, I was
like, "That's probably something
I need to work on better."
I'm being less structured in the
way that I am connecting with
God than I have been in the past.
I'm not, as worried about making sure
that, you know, I'm checking the boxes
and allowing, uh, God to show up in
whatever way that turns out to be.
Um, i-ironically, I'm probably
doing better right now with, doing
my scripture study and, and trying
to do things, even though I'm not
trying so hard to do it anymore.
but I Do have a little bit of that,
that fear, that he won't show up.
So,
I think I should keep working on this
particular thing, and I think I need to,
to make sure that, um, that, uh, I have
that relationship with him, um, where
he can, he can help me through, through
everything, um, the good and the bad
Did I pass?
, Speaker: I feel like
you're dancing around it.
What do you really need
from God right now, Joshua?
Speaker 3: Sam had a really long
conversation with me before this.
Yeah, this is a thing that I am
passionate about, that I love, being
a part of, and it means a lot to me.
And I have other things like that
as well that I'm a part of that,
other recovery-oriented organizations
I'm a part of, and there's just
a lot of fear, in some of the
relationships that I've developed
there when I talked about things coming
to a head, I've, I feel like I'm,
I need to have some conversations.
Um, I'm worried about the outcomes, and I
feel like, I really need God's direction
in, in handling the way everything's
gonna, gonna go, 'cause it's, uhâ¦
I mean, I really care about,
Everybody that I'm involved
with, in these other groups,
I don't want any bridges burned, you know?
I just want everyone to act like
friggin' adults and just be okay.
But I'm worried that won't happen.
So I'm scared of dealing with that, and I
think I've been putting it off for a while
,
Speaker: I love you, brother.
Love you, man.
Thanks for letting me push you.
All right, Mase,
you wanna, finish us off?
193.
Speaker 4: We, uh, talked about,
a lot about my relationship with
God, and that was, that was a while
ago, so it's changed a little bit.
And we've, a mo- about a month ago,
we had a talk about God, and about the
shame that I feel in church and, in
religion and all that, and with God,
and James was like, "Dude, it's you."
Right?
"Like, it's the way you see it."
And honestly, I left it
being like, " Bullshit, dude.
That is not-" " No, it isn't, dude.
These guys have shamed me.
Stuff things have said have
sh- have been shaming."
And I just had a big old piece of
humble pie served to me last week.
I was just listening to something
on, and Richard Rohr, and he said,
"It's, people experience life as
they are, not as it actually is."
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 4: And I was just
like , "Dang, he was right
." Speaker 2: I'm always right.
This is, this is why
you have me on the show.
I've just walked a few steps ahead of you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just a few, right?
Speaker 2: And it just hap- I just
happen to know this path pretty well.
Speaker 4: So I've been working
with, with Jason, and I'm breaking
it down like crazy right now.
Black-and-white thinking,
tell me why this isn't true.
This is transactional."
And just, like, really, like, learning
and diving into those, but the main thing
that I'm going into right now is, the very
basic, just learning how to feel pain.
Because right now I'm numbing out
so much that I'm not even giving God
space to even be there with me, right?
Like, I, h- how can I feel God if
I'm not even acknowledging my pain?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I'm literally like act
out, straight to YouTube, straight to
music, straight to work, whatever it
is where I don't have to acknowledge
the fact that I just acted out, the
fact that I'm gonna have to go tell
Erica about it later that night, right?
And so I'm, I'm at very, at the
very basics of just, likeâ¦
And it's really sporadic.
Like, it's super s- it's
not consistent at all.
Like, there's still so many times where
I'm like, "I'm, I'm afraid to go to God."
And there's, like, once in a
little bit where I'm like, "Okay,
I'm gonna sit here with my pain.
I'm just gonna be here."
And so that's what I'm
working on right now.
I found something that
was really good for me.
M- me and Jason were talking about
this, and we talked about the
definition of recovery for me, 'cause
I, I found that I was piggybacking
off of everyone's recovery.
I was like, "Oh, James does it like this?
Well, let's just do it like this.
Then that way I can be done, and I
found the silver bullet, and I'm good.
That's the easy way."
And so I found the definition
right now for me is that I'm trying
to get my relationship with God.
The reason for all of this, the reason
for the porn, the reason for the years
of everything that's been going on
in my life, the shame, the things,
that God has made something beautiful
out of what's happened in my past.
And for so long, I've looked at it as just
primarily I need to get sober, and now
I've, looking at it so much bigger and
being able to say, "I, uh, uh, I think
that there's something bigger here, and
it's not just to quit looking at porn.
It's to find a relationship with God-
Speaker: Mm-hmm
⦠Speaker 4: with my Father."
And so I've been able to have
some cool experiences around that,
I'm just starting to learn . I'm
at, I'm at the very beginning, so.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
It's super normal for all of
us to wanna avoid pain, to not
sit with pain, go through pain,
experience, uncomfortable emotions.
I think it's worth pointing out that,
In Psalm 23, this is the Lord is my
shepherd, in verse five, it says,
"Thou preparest a table before me
in the presence of mine enemies."
God's preparing the table before
you in the presence of your enemies.
He doesn't prepare the table when
you're in a comfortable place.
"Yea, though I walk through the valley
of the shadow of death, I will fear
no evil: for thou art with me; and
thy rod and thy staff comfort me."
He is with you when you're
in the shadow of death
When you are facing the difficulty
And he leads you in paths of righteousness
If you believe that he's leading
you in the path of righteousness,
it might be a painful one still
But in the experience of that,
that he prepares your table.
Speaker 4: Mm.
Speaker 2: That's what allows
him to prepare the table.
Think about the Israelites
being led out of Egypt.
He led them to be so-called trapped
Why?
As he says in here, "he restoreth my soul.
He leadeth me in the paths of
righteousness for his name's sake."
The power of his arm was revealed
when they got to the water and
were like, "Great, we're trapped.
We're gonna die."
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: Trust in God more
And he parts the waters
In the difficulty, he's
preparing the table, the feast.
But when you're in the comfort,
there's no feast that can be prepared.
There's no table that can be prepared.
God can't make bare his arm and
his power when we aren't cornered.
Speaker 4: Hmm.
I didn't really have a
commitment last time, so kinda
wanna make another commitment-
Speaker: Yeah.
Mm-hmm
⦠Speaker 4: here.
Something I realized the other day,
I, I took some time, I acted out on
Sunday, and I just, I was like, I was
genuinely sad 'cause I was like, "Man,
I could have taken this pain and given
it to God and been there with it."
So I decided to go and do that with
the pain I was feeling from acting out.
And I realized with my prayers,
I'm always past or future.
I'm always thinking like, "Thank
you for this in the past," or,
"Please bless this in the future."
Right?
Mm.
That's my, that's my vocabulary.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
And I'm, my f- Jason was
talking about the now, right?
The, this Naked Now, the book that,
uh, Richard Rohr wrote, and I'm
listening to it right now, and that's
my, that's one of, that's my commitment
that I wanna do, is I'm try- I'm,
I wanna try to find God in the now.
Wow.
In the pain, in the now.
Yeah.
In what's going on, what I'm feeling.
Speaker 2: And talk to him in the now.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Yeah.
Just be here in the now.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: That's the only place
God is found, is in the present.
Speaker 4: Trying to figure out what
that looks like and go on that journey.
So.
Speaker 3: That is interesting.
That is how we're taught
to- Yeah ⦠pray.
That's the language we're taught to use.
Speaker 4: So that's my commitment.
Speaker 3: I never
Speaker: thought about that before.
Speaker 4: Try to find God in the now.
Yeah.
Speaker: I'm gonna piggyback on that
as we're closing up, and I'm gonna
say, I'm gonna try to find, God and
brotherhood with you in the now.
Speaker 4: That's
Speaker: Often when you and I
talk, we leave Jesus out of it.
Mm.
It's like, let's connect,
but we don't talk about-
Speaker 4: Mm.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 4: It's true.
Speaker: We don't, we don'tâ¦
I don't know.
I d- I, I guess I'm realizing that,
that's my commitment.
Sam: Shoot us an email,
Sam, James, Mason, joshua
at
Speaker 18: unashamedunafraid.com.
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