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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast, it's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo, tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Senator Pagoda, and Bam Bam, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some rum, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.
So take this as your 116th official invitation to join us. and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're gonna smoke a New World cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We discuss and review Fuente's newest line, we take issue with a big box retailer promoting plume on cigars, and we debate the merits of Gurkha's lawsuit against Davidoff over a fire breathing reptile, all among a variety of other things for the next 90 minutes.
So sit back, get your favorite drink, Light up a cigar and enjoy as we pair Brugal Extra Viejo Rum with the Arturo Fuente Vintage 1960s Series Rare Pink in Signature. A perfecto [00:01:00] tonight from Arturo Fuente on the pod. It's called the Rare Pink Vintage 1960s Series. in signature. It's a beautiful 46 ring gauge cigar by six inches long.
And boys, this is a revisit of an identical cigar in the Hemingway line that we did. Correct. The signature, just with a little bit different of a makeup. Yep. And, uh, I've seen some reviews of this online. I've seen a lot of people smoking it. It's certainly a hype cigar. So I have high hopes tonight.
**Bam Bam:** Some people like it, some don't.
Um, it's interesting.
**Gizmo:** It's definitely a little bit of a unique makeup for, uh, Arturo Fuente cigars, but we'll talk about that in a bit. And, you know, too, it's also the newest line. Yeah. From Arturo Fuente. Came out only, you know, three or four years ago during COVID. So It's a beautiful cigar. Yeah, looks great.
Let's cut this thing, boys. See, we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. Again, it's a perfecto, so both ends of the cigar are closed. The foot of the cigar comes to a near point. [00:02:00] Kind of like a plateaued point, which you don't want to cut. Right. I actually saw a guy cut Figurado the other day, both ends.
The other way. With a V cut. Both ends. Both ends with a V. Oh,
**Bam Bam:** that's brilliant. The cold draw on this is actually quite delicious, very fruity,
**Gizmo:** isn't it? It's very unique. Yeah. It's different. Fruit forward. Mm hmm. Getting a little earth though, like a little grassy note too. I'm not getting
**Bam Bam:** For me, it's all fruit.
**Gizmo:** And the draw is wide open, which is really, really nice. It's nice. Seems like you gotta cut a little bit more.
**Senator:** Yeah, I had the opposite experience, actually. The draw was very tight, so I had to go for a second cut, and now it's still a bit resistant, but should hopefully
**Gizmo:** be good. Mine's wide open.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, mine too.
Pagoda?
**Pagoda:** It's, uh, yeah, that's alright. Some
**Rooster:** resistance. Mm hmm. Yeah, you might have to cut it a little
**Bam Bam:** bit more. What are you guys getting in the cold draw?
**Senator:** I got a lot of fruit like Ben was talking about. It's definitely there. It's nice. [00:03:00]
**Gizmo:** I'm getting that grassy thing for sure. Just
**Bam Bam:** keep the horse foot away.
**Gizmo:** Alright boys, let's light this thing. The Arturo Fuente Rare Pink Vintage 1960s Series in signature. Again, it's a 46 ring gauge perfecto by 6 inches long. Really, really nice in the hand. So we were talking about before we came on air. So we'll see how this thing does tonight.
And as we talk about every time we do a figurado or a perfecto, it's very important to not overcook the foot of the cigar when you're lighting it. And to let the intention of the manufacturer. Play out and let it open up by itself, you know, over, let's say, this will probably take about 90 seconds or, you know, three minutes to get there.
**Bam Bam:** I personally like to just light the extreme tip of a figurado and nothing more than that. And just let it open up on its [00:04:00] own. It takes time, but it, it does
**Gizmo:** go. Great smoke output for me on the light. Pretty good flavor. And I like the flavor. It is nice. It's definitely a little bit more medium full than the Hemingway series, which I would say is kind of a light to, like, firmly medium, I guess.
**Bam Bam:** It's a, for me, it's a sweet forward cigar.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. A lot of fruit notes. I used to
**Rooster:** smoke a lot of the Hemingways, starting out. Right. Hemingways, and uh, Short Story in particular.
**Gizmo:** Those
**Bam Bam:** are more, for me, earthy and coffee and leather than this. Yeah. This,
**Gizmo:** to me, is more fruit.
**Rooster:** And then you kind of graduate to a Don Carlos line, which is a little bit bolder,
**Gizmo:** spicier.
Oh yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Fuller. And eventually you get to that
**Gizmo:** Shark.
**Rooster:** Yeah. That wasn't, that was like
**Gizmo:** much later. Yeah. This is really interesting. It's nice. I like it. I like it too. It's a little bit different of a flavor profile than I expect from Arturo Fuente, especially in the Hemingway series. What
**Rooster:** made you choose [00:05:00] this
**Bam Bam:** size?
So I found this at a cigar event and they had multiple rare pinks. And I went to this cause it looked like the perfect size. I didn't want a long commitment. And honestly, I've had two or three of these and I like it, you know, but like many new worlds to me, it's a one dimensional cigar, but enjoyable.
That's how I see it.
**Rooster:** Super
**Gizmo:** expensive
**Bam Bam:** or? 12 a stick.
**Gizmo:** Oh wow. Yeah. That's, that's
**Rooster:** kind of in line with the regular
**Gizmo:** Hemingway's. It's
**Bam Bam:** true. I thought these would be more
**Gizmo:** expensive, but they're not. I think they're right around the same price. Yeah.
**Rooster:** I mean, part of the proceeds, I think they go to cancer awareness.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. 13 a box. It's awesome. Goes to breast cancer awareness. 13 a box. So it's nice if you, if you do like this cigar to go out and buy a box of 25 for whatever that multiple is that, you know, Bam just laid out if it's 300 bucks for this and knowing that, you know, 13 bucks, 14 bucks or whatever goes to breast cancer awareness is pretty cool.
I don't think
**Bam Bam:** there's another cigar that has any charity attached to it.
**Gizmo:** No, I don't think it's as [00:06:00] explicit. It's certainly in a regular run of cigars, but it's nice to see, you know, the Fuente family, uh, the family
**Rooster:** does a lot of charity. This particular cigar. Carlito Fuente's daughter, she was pretty involved in this cigar and the whole charity thing, giving money to cancer awareness and hence, you know, it's called the rare pink, the boxes are pink, and there's even a little bit of pink on the, on the band.
**Bam Bam:** Honestly, I love the band.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, the bands are great. It's mostly gold, but yeah, gold
**Bam Bam:** with pink. Pink. It's reminiscent of the Schwab with the yellow there in the middle. It
**Gizmo:** does look like, it's like an El Ray del Mundo from Cuba.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Yeah. Just that center point. And the box presentations are actually
**Gizmo:** beautiful.
Yeah. The, the boxes are really nice. Yeah. It comes in a really beautiful varnished lacquer pink, bright pink, like as barbie pink as you can get on the box. Um, really, really nice presentation. Like you walk in a cigar shop, that box stands out from the rest of, like, it draws your eye immediately. Yeah. So, to, to Rooster's point, actually, Lania [00:07:00] shaved her head in, during COVID, in support of breast cancer awareness.
And, obviously, it was aligned with the launch of this. And Carlito shaved off his, his famous mustache. Really? Around the same time of the, the launch of these cigars in, in November 2020, during COVID. Which is pretty wild that, I remember these coming out as if it was yesterday, and You know, it's going on almost, uh, three and a half years.
**Senator:** Yeah. Do they have like, um, uh, a family member that they lost to breast cancer? I'm just curious.
**Gizmo:** I think there was a grandmother that was lost to breast cancer. So this Cigar Boys comes in six different sizes. It was originally launched in four. The short story that we're very familiar with, which is a 42 ring gauge cigar by four inches.
The work of art, which is another popular Hemingway line cigar. Which is 46 ring gauge by 4. 875 inches long. And the signature that we're smoking tonight, 46 by 6 as we mentioned. Those three were identical to the Hemingway sizes of the same [00:08:00] name. And then there was a fourth at launch called the Happy Ending.
Which was a 53 ring gauge cigar by 5. 5 inches long. And that was only in the rare pink. And then there's two more sizes in the line that were launched the following year in October 21, the queen of hearts, which is a 60 ring gauge cigar, huge by 4. 125 inches long. And finally, the oddest name of them all boys is the sophisticated hooker, which is a 53 ring gauge cigar by 7.
25 inches. And honestly, it is odd to me. To name a cigar that is in the interest of breast cancer awareness. The sophisticated hooker, you know, it's, it's not in line with
**Bam Bam:** the, it smacks the face of feminism, right?
**Gizmo:** Yeah, the whole mission. It's odd to me. Um, so this is the only one I've had from the line.
This is the first one that we're having tonight. I don't know if anybody, have you had any other sizes Bam
**Bam Bam:** or just this one? Just this one. I've had this, uh, twice before.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So. Like I said, this is in the same, uh, it's the exact same [00:09:00] size as the signature in the Hemingway series, which we did on episode 39.
So if you're interested in hearing the comparison, go back to episode 39. You can hear us talk about that. So what's cool about these cigars boys, is that, so the binder is identical to the Hemingway series, Dominican Republic. The filler is also Dominican, but incorporates Nicaraguan tobacco in the filler.
And the wrapper is really interesting. It's Ecuadorian and it's made by the Oliva family. So it's actually procured by Fuente from the Oliva factory. Uh, John Oliva Jr. Cree, uh, gave Carlito Fuente a special seed for the wrapper of the cigar. Comes from the Oliva farm known as La Meca. where Oliva first grew the wrappers for the Ashton VSG, the Virgin Sun Grown, which is another cigar that Carlito blended that we did a few of those on the podcast, um, There must have been
**Bam Bam:** attributes that they wanted to incorporate into the [00:10:00] cigar from there.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, there must have been, you know, and what's interesting, I think that was the first time in a long time that Carlito brought them in. You know, like I said, the VSG was blended, what, in the late 90s, I think we said. On that first episode on when we did the illusion, it's a long time. And to bring that back for the cigar.
Certainly he was looking for something different and special.
**Bam Bam:** Now that wrapper is deeper in color than this guy and a
**Senator:** bit toothier. I mean, I think that's a good move just because I associate most regular production Fuentes with being pretty mild. I agree. So just to give this a little more oomph, I mean, this has some richer flavors than I would say most Fuentes do, which works for my palate.
I think most of us, if not all of us.
**Bam Bam:** Right. What I like is that there's a little bit of a fruit. Undertone to that richness, which I love in this cigar. I think it kicks it up a bit.
**Gizmo:** It does, but the delivery is still very, very smooth, which is nice. You know, like it's, it's, it's more medium full. Right. But it's giving you some of that great flavor of Nicaraguan [00:11:00] tobacco.
The smoothness of Dominican. It's really delicious so
**Bam Bam:** far. I will say that the other two that I've had, I smoked one really fast. The first night I had it, it'll back right up into you. With ammonia, if you don't go a little slower on this thing.
**Gizmo:** So like I said, the cigar was announced during COVID in, I believe mid 2020.
It was late to market. Obviously the COVID supply chain issues pushed it back. Eventually came out in November of that year. And like I said, they added those two additional cigars a little under a year later in October 21. The first run of these was boxes of 500 boxes of each Fatola. Which obviously now has expanded.
I think this is going to be a continued regular line for Arturo Fuente. They they've had a lot of success. So, uh, we'll see if they add any more Vitolas. Every, every single one of the cigars in this line is either a perfecto or a figurado. That's distinct to the line. Very similar to Hemingway. I believe there are a little bit of a.
Uh, might be a few in the Hemingway line that are not Perfecto [00:12:00] or Figurado, but everyone in this line is one of those two types of, uh,
**Bam Bam:** Varying lengths
**Gizmo:** and ring gauges. Exactly. So Rooster, what do we know about the, uh, about the Fuentes? So Arturo
**Rooster:** Fuente in 1912 founded, uh, the Fuente factory in Florida. And he was a 24 year old Cuban immigrant.
And by 1924 Fuente already had 500 employees rolling
**Gizmo:** cigars. That's amazing. That's incredible. Pretty cool.
**Rooster:** Uh, but then there was a fire that destroyed the entire factory and the factory was shut down for 22 years. And then came his son, Carlos Fuente, who mortgaged his house and reinvested in a factory in the Dominican Republic.
And, uh, And currently they produce about 30 million cigars.
**Gizmo:** That is just so absurd.
**Rooster:** So it went from [00:13:00] Arturo Fuente to Carlos Fuente and now Carlito Fuente. Wow. And Carlito's sister is also pretty involved, Cynthia Fuentes. Suarez.
**Gizmo:** With that kind of
**Bam Bam:** revenue, I'm sure.
**Gizmo:** It's a family
**Rooster:** affair. It's a family affair, yeah.
And, um, you know, we've all had. We have all smoked Fuentes cigars here and there. I think we used to, I, at least me, I mean, I used to smoke a lot more starting out. Short Story was one of my go to cigars in the beginning. Some of the Hemingway series and then to Don Carlos and others. What year was that? Uh, 1942.
1996. About that.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, the Hemingway series has been around quite some time. So this is, you know, I'm sure when they were looking to try to do a refresh of that. That entire line incorporating the breast cancer awareness and the charity thing was, this was a good opportunity for them to bring awareness to that line that's been around for 30 some odd years.[00:14:00]
**Bam Bam:** I will say I still love that, sorry, that short story from time to time. I love that cigar. Yeah. It's a great one. On
**Senator:** occasion. Yeah. I mean, to Fuente's credit, this is probably one of the only brands that every single cigar smoker would say at some point they've had a Fuente cigar.
**Gizmo:** Exactly right. And likely had a positive experience.
Right. Oh yeah. I mean, I
**Rooster:** would, I would say like Davidoff. Padrón and then Fuentes, right? I mean, what, what other name comes to mind? I mean, as a mass production
**Bam Bam:** cigar house. And monikers of quality. Right. And reputation. Right. You know. Yeah, but I, but
**Pagoda:** I think like a lot of the people I've met, they haven't really tried Padrón's.
I'm shocked. And many
**Senator:** haven't tried Davidoff. That's true too. You can't even find Davidoff at most retailers. This is true. It's only some. Because
**Bam Bam:** of, yeah. The point of entry for the retailer.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, what do they have to spend? Almost a hundred thousand dollars to host Davidoff and they have crazy radius clauses and stuff.
Yeah. You know, for retailers. It's tough. It's, it's tough to get into Davidoff business. Yeah, well Davidoff
**Rooster:** makes you kind of carry the entire line.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. [00:15:00] Ashton, uh, is it Ashton? No, no.
**Senator:** Havo. Excuse me. Havo.
**Gizmo:** Havo. Yeah, yeah. That's
**Pagoda:** right. Yeah. And now, Ferro Tego. Ferro Tego.
**Bam Bam:** But I'd venture, I guess, all of us in this room had all three of those cigars early in our smoking.
Definitely. Over the first few years. Right. I would think.
**Senator:** But I'm saying, that's the difference with Fuente, right? Like, to go back to the story when I first met Giz, right? He hadn't had a Padron, but I know he, of course, had a Fuente. Like, that's the one thing, even early Did he though? I'm sure. Did you have a Fuente?
Did you have a Fuente at that point when I met you? Absolutely. I would love to know I just
**Bam Bam:** think that's the only brand everybody has. what cigars he had.
**Senator:** I wish I could
**Bam Bam:** remember. All I know is I asked him to show me. That would be like insider information.
**Senator:** I know. To hold over his hand. I wish I could have taken a photo.
I can, I can,
**Rooster:** I can name a couple.
**Gizmo:** You know, you guys are not nice. I was a young buck trying to get into the, You were. Trying to get into the game. Yes, sir. That wasn't too long ago. You know what, look at you now. Hey, it was not long ago. What are we talking, 2019?
**Rooster:** [00:16:00] Yeah. Now 19 Global Cigar
**Gizmo:** Insider. Listen, I always tell people it's just eight.
Eight. Uh, and ladies and
**Bam Bam:** gentlemen, Lucy Caps, ladies, I am not exaggerating. That's a fact.
**Rooster:** leaps and bounds . It's so dramatic.
**Bam Bam:** We all know secretly we're proud of you. I'm well. There's pride in this room, man, for you. Thanks, man. Come
**Pagoda:** on, dude. It was a LR all the way. We know it. ,
**Gizmo:** there was no Rocky Patel in there.
Promise you that.
**Rooster:** So
**Gizmo:** what did you smoke before? I smoked some Avos. I smoked a lot of Hemingway series, namely the Work of Art and the, uh, the, uh, Short Story. I smoked a lot of the Drew Estate Undercrown series. I kind of like that. The Red Label one. I think they've discontinued them now. Oh, I never had that.
Uh, Undercrown Sungrown, was the red label. I think they discontinued them, but
**Rooster:** when, uh, when did you have your first
**Gizmo:** cigar? Like how old were you? Uh, it was 2014. So I was 27, 26. So I've been smoking about [00:17:00] 10 years now. And I actually fell in love with cigars. This is crazy I was, I was on a boat in my former life working on a cruise Uh, we were on it for a week.
The love boat? It was not the love boat. And, uh, I was working. It was not like a fun time, you know? And I realized that the only place I could hide out and the people I was working for couldn't find me was in this cigar lounge. So I went there with one of the other crew members and I totally fell in love with cigars and I smoked like a fiend for a week and came home and it was, all bets were off.
But you know, to your point about the journey, even in the last four years, it's a combination of meeting guys like you, obviously. This has turned into something. Totally beyond our wild imaginations and very special. And two, I think there's an element of, of a deeper curiosity that we've all kind of gone down with this journey of wanting to learn more and understand more and certainly experience more in our smoking and getting into Cuban cigars, just another avenue.
Understanding the dynamics and, and we've [00:18:00] immersed ourselves in it. So it's, it's not a matter of like we joke with rooster connoisseur corner. He's been smoking longer than all of us for sure. It's not a matter that we're experts. It's just a deep dive, a curious deep dive. Yeah. Into this thing of ours. It takes
**Bam Bam:** effort and research to find those optional smokes and try them.
It does. You really, you really have to spend the time. And it,
**Gizmo:** you know what? It's very easy for a novice smoker to get stuck in certain lanes of cigars and not venture out until they meet someone who helps them discover, like this eye opening experience, you know? So that's the, uh, that's certainly the journey we've all been down.
I have to make a correction.
**Rooster:** The daughter's name is Liana Fuentes. I might've called her Lania. Lania.
**Gizmo:** Okay. So boys, we're into the, well into the first third here. On the Arturo Fuente, Rare Pink and Signature. What do you guys think? I'm
**Bam Bam:** enjoying it. I think the retrohale is delicious. Mm hmm. And I'm still getting a lot of [00:19:00] richness with the undertone of fruit notes.
**Gizmo:** I'm finding the, uh, I'm finding the combustion to be very inconsistent for me. Like when I first lit, I found the combustion to be very, very robust. I was getting a lot of smoke output. And I just don't feel that the cigar is keeping up. I don't know if I'm smoking it too slowly or if it's just a blending thing.
**Pagoda:** I found, I found it to be the same. I I had to re-light it a couple of times. Yeah. Smoke is thinner, but I think a lot of cigars, but think it's, there's a little bit of heat. I think it blows well. Mm.
**Senator:** What strange is I'm having the opposite experience where when I lit it, the combustion was pretty minimal.
And as I've now gotten well into the first third, all of a sudden, it's actually pretty significant, the combustion,
**Gizmo:** which is nice. Yeah. So, boys, let's talk about our pairing tonight. I'm very, very excited to get into this. And, uh, Senator, what's the name of this? I don't want to butcher it. So, this is
**Senator:** the Brugal Extra Viejo.
**Gizmo:** So, Extra Aged Brugal Rum. That's right. And it's [00:20:00] from
**Senator:** Dominican? That's right.
From
**Gizmo:** the Dominican Republic. So this is the first rum that we've done from the Dominican Republic on the pod, right?
**Senator:** Correct. It is. And the funny thing is I was in our lounge a few weeks ago and, uh, one of the members, um, uh, Lizard Johnny, uh, had introduced me to it.
And the funny thing is the first thing I said when I tried it, I said, this is so smooth, like a Cuban rum. And I just kept, the association I have in my head is around Cuban rum, and the funny thing is, when we were doing the pairing tonight, just looking into some of the history, which they've actually got a very, very cool history, there's a tie to Cuba.
Which now kind of makes this all make sense for me. So Brugal was founded in 1888 by a guy named Andres Brugal, a Spaniard who migrated to Cuba before making his way to Puerto Plata in the Dominican Republic. Wow. Amazing thing is that, um, he learned how to make rum in Cuba and then brought that to the Dominican Republic where he actually started Brugal.
So [00:21:00] his style is very Cuban esque where it's smooth, it's soft, it's not an aggressive rum. Not at all. While still being rich in flavor, which is nice. So um, I think very much kind of up our power alley given how much we love Cuban rum.
**Gizmo:** I'm sorry to interrupt you. This is
**Bam Bam:** phenomenal. It is, and dare I say, it's somewhat reminiscent of the Santiago that we had.
It is. I have to say. I say that. Right? There's a slight reminiscence of that. A
**Senator:** little bit. I
**Gizmo:** agree.
**Rooster:** Right? The Santiago 20 has a little bit of a sweet, sweet
**Bam Bam:** note. But even the 11, the Santiago 11 that we had. So
**Senator:** Brugal's got a pretty long history for 130 years and five generations. It's been family, a family operated company.
Um, by 1920, the company had opened its first warehouses full of oak barrels for aging their own rum. Uh, today the company has three distilleries in the Dominican Republic, which I was surprised by. I feel like most of these brands, they have one on the island. Um, so you can imagine the volume that these guys do.
[00:22:00] There's one in Puerto Plata and two in San Pedro de, uh, Macri's in. 1888 when they were founded, they first started producing just traditional dark rum with limited age. So probably just maybe, you know, two at most three years. And then Brugal Añejo, which is age five years started being produced in 1952.
Then the Brugal Extra Viejo that we're drinking right now, which is aged eight years was released in 1976. And they have Two of their kind of top expressions, which, given this, I would love to try. One is called the Siglo d'Oro, the Golden Age, which is age 12 years. And another is Brugal Unico, which is a 30 year rum.
Wow. Wow. I think we need to add some to the shopping list. Oh, yeah. For future episodes. The only thing that was surprising, so with all the family history they've had, and they kept in the family for a very long time, in 2008, it was actually bought by a Scottish distilling [00:23:00] company, the Edrington Group.
Which acquired a majority share in Brugal, uh, but the family is still involved and leads the operation of it, which is good. That was a promise that they made that they would keep the family still, um, heavily involved and Edgerton group actually owns McAllen Highland Park and Famous Grouse. Cool. So. To be bought by anyone.
These are people who take, you know, premium spirits very seriously. So I'm sure the commitment to quality is there, which is good. Um, last things I'll say Bergalla counts for 80 percent of the rum in the Dominican Republic. So it is like the gold standard of rum in the DR. Um, and then other popular runs, because I don't know much about, about, uh, Dominican rum, Barcello and Bermudez are kind of the other two big ones.
So they, Collectively sort of call them the three B's are like the rums of the Dominican. There are obviously tons of smaller brands, but those are the big three, which you'll notice on the bottle. I thought this was so bizarre when I saw this, this like fishnet that's basically on here. So funny story [00:24:00] that a rooster and Pagoda will appreciate.
Apparently this started after a founding member of the Brugal family visited India and noticed that a lot of premium luxury goods there were presented in net bags. And so they wanted to kind of do it on their bottles as a sign of like, this is a high end. high quality product.
**Gizmo:** Nice. I hear the uh, sophisticated hooker in this line also comes with fishnet around the box.
**Bam Bam:** So this is, this is really quite impressive. There's a, um, step down to this Brugal that I've had. You have to have it with ice. It's drinkable with ice, but without it's impossible. No, but
**Pagoda:** I like that one. I like with Coke, actually. Yeah, yeah. Rum and Coke. Cuba Libre.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it's a mixing drink. Is that the one that's the Añejo that you were talking about?
That's the five year. Right.
**Senator:** We're
**Bam Bam:** all drinking this neat without ice. Yeah, it's
**Gizmo:** incredible. It's incredibly smooth. The nose is just pure maple. It's fantastic. You're right. Absolutely. Pure maple. It's pure maple
**Bam Bam:** syrup. Now, I don't think you can get this bottle here in the [00:25:00] States. I was told that you cannot.
**Senator:** So what's funny is, uh, Lizard Johnny, who had actually gifted me the bottle, he was telling me that you can get it here, but it's not the same as when you get it there. Is that right? So he bought this duty free when he was leaving the Dominican and just brought it back for us to do on the podcast. But, uh, I did look it up.
I saw it at Total Wine on their website. They have it for like 35 bucks a bottle. Really? He says you will notice a difference in the taste.
**Gizmo:** So it's not the same product?
**Bam Bam:** You want the bottle that comes off the island, I think.
**Gizmo:** Because
**Rooster:** it's maybe licensed to be bottled
**Gizmo:** in the U. S.? That could be. Do we know how much this is at duty free in
**Senator:** the Dominican?
I think probably around like 30 bucks. Wow! 30
**Gizmo:** dollars! Well, it's, it's
**Rooster:** in line with Havana. Actually,
**Senator:** no, probably. When, when, when Pagoda and I were in Panama, I saw this at duty free in the airport and I'm pretty sure it was like 28, 30 bucks. That's incredible.
**Gizmo:** So in line
**Rooster:** with Havana Club 7. Yeah. About the
**Gizmo:** same price.
Right. I gotta say the, the, [00:26:00] the finish is so robust and, and, and lengthy. Like it, it's just the, the way it lingers, it don't. It's such a wonderful compliment to the cigar. Don't throw
**Bam Bam:** your shoe at me, but I think I may like this better than the Havana club
**Senator:** seven. I mean, the one thing I will say to Gizmo's point there, I think the finish is longer and I actually think this is even smoother
**Gizmo:** than Havana.
It's definitely smoother than Havana club seven agreed, but there's some charm to the, to the character of Havana club seven that for me, maybe it's the nostalgia, maybe I have a little bit of a bias certainly because we've had so many great. Memories relating to times that we've had Havana club seven with us or Havana club 12 or whatever it is But this is a really amazing spirit for 30 bucks.
Oh, yeah I can't believe it. It's incredible. Very impressive. Very
**Senator:** nice. I was shocked the first time I had this. That's why I was so excited to do this on the podcast. And then when he mentioned that there's kind of a difference in the DR, I wasn't going to be able to go get it obviously there. So I was very glad when he came back, he brought me a bottle.
**Gizmo:** So that's very important for the listeners to note. Do not chase [00:27:00] this bottle as it's found in American liquor stores. This is one you're going to want to get at a Duty Free or in Dominican when you go on
**Bam Bam:** And I learned that playing espionage one of my many nights.
**Gizmo:** So you heard about this over there? Are
**Bam Bam:** you
**Senator:** really teeing up another accountability hour?
**Bam Bam:** This is an accountability hour. You will lose. I fight for variety of my life.
**Senator:** Your attorney's not present today.
**Gizmo:** Well,
**Rooster:** there is a little bit of an accountability hour. We need to. You know, dwell upon that. Oh,
**Pagoda:** boy. A trip to Dubai comes into mind, doesn't it? Yeah, it was something
**Rooster:** about Dubai. Ah,
**Gizmo:** the
**Bam Bam:** Dubais, yeah.
**Gizmo:** Oh, that's another Fuente. That is a Fuente. Yeah, so Bam Bam, Bam Bam showed up with the, what was that Bam? So Bam, Bam
**Rooster:** was actually, if you don't mind me talking about this a little bit. He was sitting next to me. Pipe down. And, uh, he was smoking a cigar that had like, I don't know, like three bands on it, so obviously I was curious.
I'm like, [00:28:00] Bam, what are you smoking? So Bam goes, um It's an Opus. I'm like, what Opus is that? He said, it's an Opus Dubai. I'm like, Opus Dubai? I'm like, I've never even heard of it. He said, I have a box. I'm like, you
**Gizmo:** have a box? Yes. That's, that's
**Bam Bam:** awesome. Acquired during my espionage escapades. How much,
**Gizmo:** how much is that
**Rooster:** cigar?
And he said, it's a hundred dollars a stick. And I paid 1, 900 for that
**Senator:** box.
**Gizmo:** Of 20 cigars.
**Senator:** Yeah. I, I, I This is espionage in the first degree. Alright, sorry. That's
**Bam Bam:** fine. I, I had that cigar once a while back and I love that cigar. It's, and I'm, you never mentioned
**Senator:** that. It's funny you never mentioned it to any
**Bam Bam:** of us.
I mentioned it to Rooster that
**Senator:** he asked you about. It didn't mention
**Bam Bam:** recently. Okay. So I recently got that box and I think I, no. Opus is, that's, that Marca, that the Tola has, you know, it's a little controversial in this room, but I think that would be a POD worthy
**Gizmo:** cigar. We should do it for a [00:29:00] special occasion.
Well, it's a good thing Rooster
**Senator:** saw you smoke it, because you may have never told us had he Well, I had to
**Bam Bam:** try it again, because I haven't had it in a couple of years.
**Rooster:** Although Bam did mention that we should do it on the POD. I did. That night. Thank you. Thank you. So, and
**Gizmo:** when it will happen? So serious question for you, as you said, you know, Opus X is hit or miss in the room.
And certainly we've only done one Opus on the podcast and it did not perform well, certainly. Perform way worse than this 12 cigar that we have in our hands right now. This is much better. So for that 100 cigar, genuinely, I'm curious, what about it attracts you to the flavor? Is it just
**Bam Bam:** Well, the, the, the length and the ring gauge are substantial.
Yeah, it is a big cigar. I saw that. It's a big cigar and it burns beautifully. It's very consistent, great combustion and it's kind of reminiscent to what I'm getting in this where there's, there's a lot of earth notes that are rich and the fruit notes that are very sweet for me. I get both of those in that, in that opus.
Eight times more. It's a lot more. Yeah. Now the thing of it is like, is it worth that money? I like those [00:30:00] conversations and it's worth trying that cigar and when the group to get everyone's input. Yeah, but
**Gizmo:** obviously you'd
**Rooster:** love that cigar to buy a box. Well,
**Gizmo:** I just
**Bam Bam:** wanted, I mean, it was there and available.
**Senator:** Just 1, 900 to try it. You
**Pagoda:** know what? No, that's my budget for
**Bam Bam:** the year. You only live once. For the, for the week, you mean.
**Gizmo:** Well, I look forward to trying it at some point in the future. It sounds, uh, sounds really interesting. You name the day. I will. Yeah. So boys, we're about halfway through here on the Arturo Fuente rare pink in signature.
What are you guys thinking?
**Bam Bam:** I want to know what, um, Senator and Pagoda think, really think about this cigar. Because I haven't had Mitch, I haven't heard input over here. Yeah,
**Senator:** I, I have strong thoughts. So I, I like that this is a more robust flavor profile than most Fuentes I've had. So that's up my alley. I like the shape.
I just, the thing I'm having a hard time with is I'm getting a rich, deep flavor, but the notes are just not as defined or pronounced [00:31:00] as I want them to be. Like. All I'm, all that's left on my palate is just like something deep and rich that's like kind of walnutty, nutmeg, and
**Rooster:** baking spice a little
**Gizmo:** bit, some
**Senator:** baking spice, but, nutmeg is real for me, kind of like the, you know, the fruit that was present early on has kind of gotten lost for me a bit in the mix, and Um, Um, Even those, those like nutty baking spice flavors, they're just, they're not pronounced.
They're not pronounced. They're just not like, you know, certain cigars, you just, you take a draw and it's like each flavor feels like it's literally dancing on your taste buds. Like you can just pick out every moment of what you're getting. And with this, I'm just getting a whole lot of like rich flavor.
But that's too close to the taste of tobacco that I'm not able to really pull those notes out that well. So that's my only complaint. I just, for some reason, the blend to me has not lended itself to like the complexity of this cigar really shining through. It's all just kind of muddled [00:32:00] together, but at least it has enough flavor that it's satisfying me somewhat.
To keep going with it, but I just wish it was more defined.
**Bam Bam:** You know, honestly, this is, this is the issue with a lot of new worlds. And I was thinking about this earlier today, what are we going to discuss? How's it going to go? I don't
**Senator:** think new worlds, by the way. Well, like I think, uh, like the old Fuentes
**Bam Bam:** or like the olive that oliva figurado that we spoke a while back.
Yeah. That kind of started off great too, like this. And it eventually becomes a generalized note that you can't put your finger on. That happens, I think, more often than not in the New World category than in the Cuban category for sure. That's fair. You know? There are some highlights in the New World that are incredible.
Like, of course, the Davros that we love and the Padrones, and this Warp that you were smoking earlier tonight. Yeah. Those are highlights
**Senator:** in the leave a Vin Lancero.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, that's, oh, that's tremendous.
**Pagoda:** So for me, I think in the beginning, uh, like in the first third, uh, I was, um, in addition to, and I don't know whether it's really dried fruit, but I get this [00:33:00] flavor of tea, which I've kind of mentioned before.
He's not wrong. It's, it's, it's a, it's a very interesting flavor and because, you know, I've grown up drinking tea that I do really like that flavor profile, but it was only in, in, uh, the first third and it was coming after. You know, more of an aftertaste, um, which I really kind of enjoyed the finish. The finish was, yeah.
And, um, yeah. And since then it's somewhat dissipated, but. So,
**Rooster:** so when you say tea, you know, Indians, when we drink tea, it has milk in it, but there's also some spices that we add to it. You could have cloves. Green cardamom, black cardamom, cinnamon. So when we add that, that's kind of like the same mix of like baking spices.
Is that what you mean?
**Gizmo:** No, no.
**Pagoda:** So you know how you just like tea leaf. So, so tea leaf, you know, when you smell it, you get that really distinct, uh, deep, uh, flavor. It's somewhat, I don't know, reminiscent of that. I [00:34:00] can't really. pinpointed, but it just, um, and I think this is the second cigar I felt it. I think I mentioned it another cigar.
I
**Gizmo:** remember, I don't remember which cigar, but I remember this is probably the second or third time. So you've mentioned it. I've gotten tea notes
**Senator:** in certain cigars before. I mean, I can count them on one hand, but there's different types of tea. What I think I'm getting, if I'm getting the same thing you are, the tea thing is starting to register for me, but it's like a black tea.
It's like a very just deep, rich, like, dry kind of tea, where I've had certain cigars, the one that really comes to mind, the EP Carrillo Encore, that I think won Cigar of the Year a few years ago, uh, that was like a white tea. It was like a very light, sweet kind of tea, where this is just like a very Dry, dark,
**Pagoda:** black.
Yeah, the way we drink it is typically the black tea leaves. We boil it with water and then we put a little bit of milk. Uh, yeah. So, but it's got a very distinct smell to it. And if you've grown up with it, it's, it's like one of those things where you can [00:35:00] identify, uh, at least some notes of, uh, that particular flavor
**Senator:** profile.
Yeah. And this is tea without milk. I don't get any creaminess.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I need, I need. And I'll tell you, I think that would have made the cigar even better. But I think E. P. Correa gives a little bit more of the creaminess and, um, you know, the
**Senator:** encore. I agree.
**Bam Bam:** Completely agree. There is still smoothness though to the cigar.
Halfway through. There is. Yeah. There is.
**Gizmo:** It's quite smooth. I'm still finding the combustion to be inconsistent. I'm having to touch it more than I'd like. Um, I'm finding the flavor Aligning with the amount of combustion. So when I get a draw after I've touched it up, the flavor is really, really there and complete and and full.
Interesting. And then when I'm, when it's not combusting the same way, or whatever's happening in this cigar, the flavor is odd. I'm getting a weird aftertaste after I push the draw outta my mouth. Like there's inconsistency in the cigar, which. It's something I do not expect from Arturo Fuente. Are you drawing at a [00:36:00] consistent pace?
I am. I'm smoking it the same as I do every other cigar. I'm not smoking it fast. You know, I'm, I'm trying to take my time with it. I'll keep my eye on you. I don't know what's going on. But, uh, the combustion's definitely inconsistent for me. So, boys, we mentioned Davidoff a few times earlier, certainly from a quality standpoint.
And I know that this was another cigar. I think, Rooster, I think you have a box of these. And, Bam, you have some, right? The Year of the Dragon, the Zodiac Series 4. I I have one left released in 2023. So first off, how is that cigar? One box, one cigar,
**Bam Bam:** unlike you, I have to ask,
**Gizmo:** you never know. So that's a Churchill.
We've talked about that a few times on the pod. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** I'll be, I'm going to be blunt. I, I really, really liked that cigar a lot. I think it's very complex. The notes are pretty accurate. If you read the description, there's a lot of almond and nuttiness, and then it goes through a journey to some, there's some baking spice in there.
Deep coffee [00:37:00] toward the beginning of the last third and then it gets really rich toward the end. It's, it's quite a, it's, it's quite an experience.
**Gizmo:** You know, that cigar, uh,
**Rooster:** the foot of that cigar is
**Gizmo:** naked. There's no wrapper on
**Bam Bam:** it. That's true. Why that is, I
**Gizmo:** don't
**Rooster:** know. It's unique. Yeah, it's different. Well, there's a
**Bam Bam:** band at the
**Rooster:** bottom, right?
I mean, at the foot, at the, you know, when you light it, you're lighting straight.
**Bam Bam:** There's no wrapper. When you take the band off, the half inch is exposed tobacco. Really? Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Wow. They want you to taste.
**Rooster:** The, the binder and the filler as opposed to the wrapper.
**Gizmo:** But it
**Bam Bam:** burns beautifully though. It doesn't, it doesn't frail or fall apart.
But
**Senator:** just for 20 minutes.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, maybe. That's really interesting. It's such a strange. It is strange. So the reason why I bring up the Davidoff Year of the Dragon and Bam and Rooster's experiences with it is, I haven't had one. Oh. Davidoff. Davidoff has been sued by Gurkha over [00:38:00] trademark infringement of use of the red dragon on their packaging, which is really, really interesting.
So Davidoff, you know, keeps it kind of in line every year. They put out a year of the release. We talked about this, I think in October or November, this was the biggest, it's a Churchill, it's the most expensive one they released, I think it's 65 or 70. And Gurkha, who's held a patent, a trademark on dragon as, as it relates to.
Cigars, I think, since 2009, Really? Filed a trademark lawsuit against Davidoff for this.
**Bam Bam:** Even though it's a completely different image. It's completely Of a
**Gizmo:** dragon. That's exactly it. It's completely different. And what's interesting about this is that I think Davidoff certainly knew it was coming. So Davidoff is, is opposing the trademark application.
Gurkha, I guess, reapplied in, in November of 2022, expecting that this was coming 2023, obviously, because the Chinese calendar is set. I
**Rooster:** mean, can Gurkha actually go [00:39:00] out and produce better cigars than sowing Davidoff?
**Gizmo:** No, they
**Rooster:** come out with the year off. You know, rabbit, ear of the ox,
**Gizmo:** ear of the rooster, another
**Rooster:** ear of the dragon.
I mean, that's
**Bam Bam:** So I don't know what It's their right. I don't know what patent information looks like when you file a patent. There has to be specific descriptions. It's based on the Chinese New Year. But for the imagery itself, there has to be specific language as to how the image of the dragon can look.
For a competitor's design of some kind there has to be there has to be some sort of language there that confines the design of a dragon And this doesn't look anything like the Gurkha box. So how could they have a problem? It all depends on the patent
**Gizmo:** I hope there's no lizard on a Gurkha box. Otherwise, we would get sued
Or we'll sue them. Yeah, there you go.
**Senator:** I like that Yeah, but I'm sorry. I mean, this whole thing is just so ridiculous to me. Davidoff did not invent like Chinese New Year and these different, you know, and animals that symbolize these different years and things like that. So [00:40:00] I'm sorry. There's tons of cigar brands that come out with year of for Chinese New Year.
I think it's outrageous to suggest that no other brand can use a dragon when it is the year of the dragon by the Chinese calendar and to file lawsuit for that is just insane. I think to Bam's point, like if the artwork were literally the identical, unique dragon that Gurkha has made, well, sure, but there's no way.
I mean, I'm looking at a photo of the boxes. They don't look that similar. And number two, I would love, I can only imagine whoever the attorney is representing Davidoff. I mean, all that guy's going to get up in court and say is. If you think that Davidoff wants any association with Gurkha, I have news for you.
That's like the last brand that we would ever want to be associated with. Especially if he's a cigar smoker. Right. So it's like, there's no way that they ever tried to mimic anything Gurkha's doing because Gurkha's not doing anything right in the cigar business. Well,
**Rooster:** apparently Gurkha has a very expensive cigar.
Yeah, they
**Gizmo:** do. Well, that's what they say all the time. Yeah. One of the
**Senator:** [00:41:00] most expensive cigars, which no one buys and they just make that claim. Like we could come out with a cigar and price it at 40 million and say, we have the most expensive cigar. You know, nobody will buy it, but we have that cigar. The
**Pagoda:** attorney
**Bam Bam:** could like, Hey, Judge, I got to come up to the bench.
You know, I smoked the Gurkha and I smoked the cigar. It's like light years in difference. It
**Gizmo:** can't be the
**Senator:** same
**Gizmo:** and judge math. I would say I'm throwing this out. I love judge Mason, man. He's our guy. It's really, really interesting that, that Gurkha is being this aggressive about their trademark. Like I said, they say they've owned it since 2009, but as you guys said, there's really no.
Likeness infringement on, on the box here. I mean, certainly the colors are red and gold or red and yellow. If you want to call it that, which is just classic Chinese colors. I mean, that's just the Chinese, you know, culture is, is there's a lot of red and gold. And I'll read you a quote here that, uh, that [00:42:00] Gurkha provided.
Uh, the director of marketing said we've owned the trademark dragon since 2009, and we've always protected it. We've brought it to people's attention when they've infringed. And this is the exact same. Matter. Gurkha is seeking damages for lost profits, enhanced damages, and their costs of attorney's
**Bam Bam:** fees.
Oh, because they, they're not selling enough of those Gurkhas. Correct. They
**Gizmo:** have no profits. This is how they profit.
**Pagoda:** I think one of my ex bosses will call the dragon slayer. I think David should come up with a new line called the dragon slayer.
**Bam Bam:** The
**Gizmo:** Gurkha killer. What's interesting too, Maya Selva. sold a year of the dragon release in the U S I guess that's a manufacturer, Maya Selva and Gurkha did not file a lawsuit against them.
So they're certainly cause they have no money in depth. They're selectively absolutely choosing, uh, You know, and like you said, Zodiac series was, has been an immensely popular release, not only for Davidoff, but other [00:43:00] companies, as you said, that have done it drew a state Habano SSA every year does a year of the namely in Cohiba because, uh, you know, that, that performs really, really well in China, Placentia Scandinavian tobacco group who owns a ton of, a ton of stuff and Tabaclara SLU among others.
So it's really, really interesting to see. Litigation like this over branding as it relates to the Chinese new year, which is so
**Senator:** silly to me. My prediction is they're going to lose and Davidoff is going to counter Sue for all the legal fees for this. And Gert is going to end up actually having to pay Davidoff just for this bullshit.
I mean, this is so silly.
**Gizmo:** So hopefully they do. I
**Bam Bam:** would like Rooster's input on that cigar whenever he has
**Gizmo:** it. Yeah, you gotta try that, Rooster. Why are you letting him sit like that? You've had it for a while, right? I'm waiting until
**Rooster:** Bam finishes his so I can sell him to him.
**Bam Bam:** For 1900 bucks.
**Gizmo:** He's a buyer. I
**Bam Bam:** am a
**Gizmo:** buyer.[00:44:00]
So boys, this rum is really the star of the show tonight. Dude, it's off the charts. It's, it's for me wiping the floor with the cigar right now. I'm really impressed and I can't believe that this was 30. If Senator came in and said this was 130 bottle of rum. You wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised and I'd be as enthusiastic as I am right now.
Really, really excellent. What do you guys think of the pairing?
**Bam Bam:** It's okay. I mean, I think I agree with him. The cigar doesn't meet the standards
**Senator:** of what we're drinking though. It doesn't, but the one thing I will say about the flavor profile, and this is one of those kind of fortuitous moments, because I've never had a rare pink, so I wouldn't know how this would pair.
Um, But the rare pink, the notes that I'm getting, you know, I've described like that fruit is gone for me and it's a more dry finish on the cigar and more nutty and the Brugal for a rum. This, you know, Havana club is much sweeter than this is. This is, I would say a [00:45:00] dryer rum recognize that all rums are sweet, right?
They're made from sugar cane, but I think the dryness. Uh, yeah. Um, Um, And the cigar and the rum actually work well together, fully recognizing that obviously the cigar is not performing in any kind of stellar way to live up to this. So I just, from a flavor standpoint, like if this rum were very sweet, like many rums with this cigar that I consider to be much drier, I think the flavors would be competing or clashing a little bit where I actually think the flavors are kind of on the same playing field.
And so neither is detracting from the other, which I'm very happy about. It's pretty spot
**Gizmo:** on, man. Yeah, I got a question for you guys, so Speaking of this cigar, which is mostly Dominican, I know we talked about some of the components in it, but it's a Dominican cigar in its heart, has Ecuadorian, has Nicaraguan tobacco.
If you were to talk about pairing this rum with a Padron, and also on the other end of it, pairing it with a Cuban cigar, How do you think it would perform, you know, kind of across the range of tobacco flavors that we experience? [00:46:00] Because I, I have a very strong opinion on it. I'm curious if we're
**Bam Bam:** aligned.
I can't see how this wouldn't pair beautifully with virtually any cigar.
**Gizmo:** That's exactly where I'm at. I
**Senator:** agree. And you, you mentioned Padron, I think especially brands that have a drier Flavor profile, like the Padron 64 line, I'll, I'll use the Exclusivo because every Vitola smokes a bit different and has kind of different notes, but for the Exclusivo, like you're getting cocoa, not like milk chocolate, more like dark chocolate, earth, they're drier, less sweet.
No, it's leather, agree. That pairs really well with this where, you know, other rums that are a lot sweeter, I think. While they can pair with almost any cigar pair best with cigars that bring out some more milk chocolate or sweeter notes in them. So I think I agree with them. This would drink well with anything, but I think especially cigars that have rich, deep flavors that skew a little bit on the drier side.
I think that's like a perfect [00:47:00] pairing. I think
**Bam Bam:** this spirit's proven to be a very sophisticated drink tonight. I agree. For the cost, regardless of the cost honestly, I think it's more sophisticated than the
**Gizmo:** Havana Club. I got a question. What's the proof on this? Do we know? Yeah, great question. Because it doesn't drink We're drinking it neat.
It doesn't feel hot at all. No, we're going
**Senator:** to kill that tonight. Oh, interesting. Great question. Great question. Because. I'm full of great questions, Ben. Because. No, no. This will be the first spirit we've ever done. You are. This will be the first spirit we've ever done. That's actually under 40 percent. Wow.
The first spirit. It's 37 and a half percent. And you know what? I like that.
**Gizmo:** I do, too. It drinks so easily. It drinks easily. It doesn't feel hot. Like it doesn't have that kind of. Punch to it that it's like, I'm gonna have a rough morning tomorrow if I drink a bunch of this, like 37%. I, I'm, I, I like the under proofing of, of
**Bam Bam:** the spirit.
I'm gonna, next time we go to Cuba, I'm gonna sneak this bottle into Cuba. Make sure Juan Moya is there. I'm gonna open this bottle and I'm gonna show him the bottle. You know what he's gonna say? [00:48:00] Amen. You wouldn't have on you. Well,
**Senator:** tell him the guy who made it. It's true. Learned how to make rum in
**Gizmo:** Cuba.
Very true. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Seems like everything begins in Cuba. Uh huh. It's true. Yeah. Even the cigar tonight. The Fuente story. Correct. He was a Cuban national. Yeah. You know,
**Rooster:** I'm, I'm kind of surprised that
**Gizmo:** Arturo Fuente,
**Rooster:** um, how early he came from Cuba and why. Yeah. I mean, there were really no issues.
I mean, there were issues, but it wasn't like, you know, after,
**Gizmo:** after Fidel took over. Yeah. What, what year did
**Senator:** he come over?
**Gizmo:** Um,
**Rooster:** well, he founded the factory in 1912. So it had to be before that.
**Gizmo:** Wow.
**Rooster:** Yeah. You know, he was born, I think, in 1867.
**Gizmo:** So it's amazing. And to have 500 employees, like you were saying by the 20s, I mean, 1924, he had 500 employees.
Well, I
**Senator:** guess, sorry though, the, I mean, the problem in Cuba at that time, it was still under Spanish control, right? It was. So that, that would be the reason to leave. For a while.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. [00:49:00] So boys, I got a fun one for you. Speaking of spirits. So I, you know, I was doing our, our typical pod shop and texting you guys.
And we were buying, you know, 10 or 12 spirits at a time for the podcast as we do. And I decided, you know, I was at Bottle King, which is a great retailer that we'd love for spirits. And I decided to look at their. Humidor that they have, you know, a lot of total wine has a lot of cigars in their humidor.
Total
**Senator:** Wine has a full walk-in Humidor. It was different than that. That's true. And they have Padron and some quality
**Gizmo:** cigars, drones, some nice brands. That's true. Yeah. At decent prices. Yeah. . Yeah. And Bottle King had a humidor too. And at the Bottle King I was at, there was a sign on the door. Oh right. Of the bottle King.
In their branding. So this is what concerns me. It's like, I want to put bottle King on blast. I don't know if it was just the Wayne, New Jersey location, or if this is at every bottle King on the door. Yeah. When I get sued. It was a cigar fun fact, it says, and it says, do you, did you know [00:50:00] the white dusty powder is called plume, a.
k. a. bloom, and many long time cigar fans only hope That this occurs to their cigars. Plume is evidence that you have a well aged and properly cared for cigar. The white dust, the white dust is crystallized oils from the cigar itself. Enjoy. Complete propaganda. That is the biggest load of BS I have ever seen, and I'm shocked that a big box retailer Is promoting such horseshit in their stores.
I think what
**Rooster:** they're talking about is sometimes on older cigars, you'll get these mineral deposits, little spots. They're like deep green
**Senator:** in color. That's not what they're talking about. That's not what
**Gizmo:** they're talking about. You're giving them the benefit of the doubt. That's not what they're talking about.
At least they're trying to say, I mean,
**Rooster:** that's what
**Pagoda:** We've talked about that, I think, in one of the episodes where we said that [00:51:00] it's crystallization and it's
**Bam Bam:** Wow. Well, on the 80th episode, when we have aged four year old, not nine year, not nine years aged, the crystallization on the wrapper was glistening.
It was like a disco ball. Yeah. So that's the crystallization that you want
**Gizmo:** to pursue. We're not talking about a white powder. That is in all it's in all cases, in 100 percent of cases, if you have white powder, Or white growth on your cigars. It is mold. Yeah. 100 percent of the time. There is no situation in which plume exists and is not mold.
Correct. It's mold. And it is destructive. And it means that your cigars are in an over humidified situation.
**Senator:** Correct. And the good thing is it's very fixable.
**Gizmo:** If you have white. If it's not on the foot.
**Senator:** You have white mold on the cigar. It wipes right off. And that just tells you that those are being stored at too high a temperature.
I'm sorry, too high a humidity. And that can easily be resolved. Now, if you have like black mold or some kind of green mold, then you
**Gizmo:** have a [00:52:00] problem. Oh, yeah. And if you have white mold on the foot, that's a cause for concern. If your white mold has gone to the foot of the cigar, you've really kind of destroyed that cigar and it's not worth smoking.
It's not worth the health risks. So, I want to point to the science on this. So, You know, obviously FOH, Friends of El Habano, we love that, that forum. It's one of my favorites on the, on the, on the entire internet. They did a full mold study in 2017. And the idea was to study a, as many varieties of plume, quote unquote, and mold as they could find, and they found four different varieties of it.
Across a different, you know, many different cigars, uh, and you can see the pictures here, guys. I'll just scroll through them for you so you understand what I'm showing you here. That looks ugly. It doesn't look good, but this is what, you know, Bottle King is promoting. This is what you can only hope to have on your cigars.
Exactly. So The conclusion, and I guess the scientist did this on the, on the forum here, three guys, there were [00:53:00] two cigars that showed potential for being something other than mold, aka plume. That proved to be false hope. All 10 cigars in this study tested proved to be one of four different mold types.
The positive to be taken from the testing. Is now they have a system to test into the future. And since that time in six years, nobody's been able to prove, and there was a reward to do it, that a crystalline substance on a cigar is not mold. So at any time that you have a white growth on your cigars, it is not.
Cause for celebration. No, it is cause for a an absolute correction in your tower And if I ever saw white on my cigars, I would absolutely start to panic Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** I've never had that but as senator said you can wipe it off most of the time I recommend if it's in a single box take the cigars out wipe that box out Wipe every cigar and you can put it right back.
And of course adjust your humidity [00:54:00]
**Gizmo:** And a lot of guys are experiencing this, you know, guys who are carrying their, you know, keeping their cigars and Tupperware with sea, you know, that's a sealed environment. We've talked ad nauseum about Boveda and other humidity packs, especially when you're buying 69 percent Boveda packs and you put them in an airtight situation, they are going to run into the, yeah, they're running hot.
So they're going to run closer to 72, 73, 74. If you're in a climate. Where the temperature's high, if you keep them in a storage unit that's not temperature controlled, that's when you're risking not only mold, You're entire collection you're risking. You're risking bugs, you're risking everything about them.
Like I said, if it gets on the foot, it turns into a real problem, so the entire plume thing is a complete myth. And if you celebrate it, or you know someone who celebrates it, It's time to calibrate your thinking here and get away from the celebration of white spots on your cigars. Good advice. And that's [00:55:00] that, boys.
So I'm curious what Bottle King is going to say because I want to hear from corporate on this one because, you know, if they're selling cigars that they just have a lazy situation in which they're humidifying their cigars, like It's not fair to the consumer to be, you know, promoting this kind of BS. For the
**Senator:** record, everybody does this.
So I remember years ago, I had ordered some cigars from, uh, J. R. Cigar from their website. And when I got them, they had plume, a. k. a. mold on them. So I called and said, There is mold on these cigars. And they're like, well, can you send us a photo? What are you talking about? I send a photo. You see it plain as day.
They're like, oh, well, that's plume. They gave literally the exact same story that you saw on there. And I said, I'm sorry. That's an indictment. I want. A new box that does not have any mold. And they were like, we'll happily replace it. Like, like we said, it's totally good. It's a good thing. It's a safe thing, but I understand you're not happy.
So we'll replace them. But this is what so many people do, right? It's so much [00:56:00] easier for any retailer to just bullshit the consumer and say, this is not a problem so that they don't have to do anything about it. And they don't even have to worry about how they're keeping and maintaining these cigars than to just tell them the truth.
**Bam Bam:** But for a cigar retailer to say that? It's understandable for a wine purveyor. It's true. Who doesn't understand what a cigar really is? That's true.
**Senator:** This is J. R. Cigar. Very
**Gizmo:** interesting. Yeah. And is this sign at all the bottle kicks or is it? I don't know. I'm going to find out. I
**Senator:** don't think so because I mean I spent a lot of time in the one in Glen Rock.
I've never seen
**Gizmo:** that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna email corporate and see what their, uh, see what their comment is. Because I just don't think it's fair if you're a novice smoker buying a cigar with mold all over it because Bottle King told you that that's the way that it should be smoked. It's incorrect. And it's like, now you're smoking mold?
Like, what are we doing? It's incorrect. That's, it's just crazy. And an over, over humidified cigar, period, is going to not taste the same as a properly humidified cigar. It's just the nature of introducing more Moisture [00:57:00] to the cigar than is necessary, it's going to change the flavor. I
**Bam Bam:** do like the idea of communicating with them because you're advocating for the
**Gizmo:** cigar itself.
Yeah. You know, also, if you ask
**Rooster:** a cigar smoker Who is just starting out and maybe not, maybe who's been smoking cigars for a while. If you ask anybody, like what do you like the RH, the humidity at for your cigars? I guarantee most everyone would say closer to
**Gizmo:** 70%. Correct. Yeah,
**Senator:** that's what they all tell you.
They say 70, 70, 70 degrees, 70 RH. It's bullshit. I mean, I'm sorry. Like
**Bam Bam:** Don't ask a Cuban national what they want. You know what they wanted at. 79.
**Senator:** Yeah, oh
**Gizmo:** yeah. No, but it's true. I mean, every cigar that I smoke. performs better at 65 for new world and Cuban closer to 62, 61, 60, there is no situation in which I've had a better experience by, in my case, in my view, over humidifying my cigars.
[00:58:00] So I encourage all of our listeners to advocate. Not only for their own collection, but the people around them, the people in their lounge, there is no reason to be keeping your cigars at that humidity, especially if you're in a climate where the temperature is extreme. You know, if you're in, in Florida, if you're in California and you, you know, you don't have a controlled situation, you're going to run into problems.
If you're running your. Humidity
**Senator:** that high. You know when you get a box of cigars and you take a stick out and you start feeling it and it feels spongy, you know it's way over humidified. That's not how they're meant to be. Yeah. They should be a little
**Rooster:** bit of give, but not like
**Gizmo:** spongy. Right? Yeah. It shouldn't feel like a cracker in your hand, right?
Yeah. You know, like a saltine, right? But it should not feel like you said, like a sponge, you know? Plain and simple. Mm-Hmm. . So boys, we're into the last third here of the Arturo Fuente Vintage 1960 series. Rare Pink and Signature. What are you guys thinking? I mean, it's it's good. You know, there's nothing offensive
**Rooster:** about it.
Um, The [00:59:00] flavors are kind of, kind of mixed together. I mean, it's not like very pronounced notes that you're
**Gizmo:** getting. It's a bit muddled now. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I find it very dry. I do too. I'm getting no
**Senator:** fruit, no sweetness. I'm just, it's very dry and like woody and. Gives you a reason to
**Bam Bam:** drink that delicious spirit.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it does. Thank God for the rum because this cigar is, is very much, it's, it's, it's. For me, it's, it's actually become a little harsh on the palate in the last third as it's heated up toward the end here. It's definitely not as pleasurable as it was.
**Bam Bam:** I don't get any of that, but, um, I agree with Rooster and it's muddled, but I'm still, I put it down, I was down to a half inch.
I don't mind it. It's another one of those cigars that I'll smoke if I have no other options. Um, fairly
**Senator:** enjoyable. I'm also going to say, I mean, I can't say I've had a tremendous amount of experience with The Fuente line, but having [01:00:00] had this now in this signature Vitola and the What was the other one we did in Signature?
The Hemingway. The Hemingway series. I don't love the way Fuente makes that shape. I think, like, so we did the Signature and I bought some because I was like, you know, this is such an easy everyday cigar. The Hemingway. The Hemingway line. I'm like, just for a friend who comes by who, you know, doesn't smoke very often, that person could enjoy that cigar.
And I lit one after I had it just sit in my tower for a while. And kind of similar to this, like the combustion was just very inconsistent. I, you know, I love with Padrone or even I'll give Oliva credit. I mean, we didn't love the flavor that we were getting out of that Oliva V Figueroa, but the combustion was great.
Yeah. And it was consistent. Exactly. I mean, it was wide open, very easy to smoke and drive and smooth. And so I just, I mean, this is now two lines of Fuente in [01:01:00] this kind of size that I just don't think I get. As consistent in experience as other brands put out that make a perfecto or a figurado. So, I, I, if I were to have this again, I would definitely try this in another Vittola.
I just don't love how Fuente does a figurado or a perfecto.
**Bam Bam:** Maybe a larger ring
**Gizmo:** gauge. You think so? Maybe. I also wonder how this, this line does in the short story size. You know, I wonder if this would perform in line with, with what we're having tonight or closer to the Hemingway version. Yeah, it's identical.
Yeah. So boys, before we get to the rating, I want to share one more thing with you. Uh, we had one of our. Listeners reach out. Lizard Gabe, who messaged us and said, I live in Fort Worth, Texas, and today on the road, there was a Tesla in front of me with a lizard pod sticker on it. You mean a Tesla? A Tesla. I said a Tesla, so we didn't have to go through the pronoun.
Listen, I'm beyond [01:02:00] pronunciation. That was last year. Hey, kiss.
**Bam Bam:** Get it right.
**Gizmo:** So he sent me a picture of this, and it was absolutely. Our lizard, which we commissioned that, that illustration, you know, that wasn't something we found on the internet, but we don't sell stickers. We don't sell stickers. So someone made that. This was a rogue sticker, which I made by Gorka.
**Bam Bam:** That's infringement.
**Gizmo:** So Gabe goes on to say it's underground merch. You guys are probably not aware of yet. He said, you got to give the people what they want. The people demand more merch. And he closed with saying It was good to see a fellow listener. So I love that listeners are driving around in Texas, seeing bumper stickers on the car that someone clearly printed out.
It's an extraordinary compliment. I have a confession.
**Senator:** Uh oh. I took a road trip
**Bam Bam:** to Fort Worth. Well, you have an office down there somewhere, so. It's true, Houston. No,
**Senator:** I'm kidding. But can you imagine? I can't believe that someone actually took our logo, had it [01:03:00] printed on a bumper sticker, and put it on their car.
**Gizmo:** That's unbelievable. Huge compliment. Let me tell you something. If I ever saw someone driving around with a lizard sticker that they printed out, I know what you're going to do. I would chase them down and I would hand them a Vegas Robania classical on the spot. Wow. Or I'd mail it to him if I didn't have
**Senator:** D4.
I have a lizard sticker on my
**Pagoda:** car. Yeah, right? I think I'm going to get one now.
**Gizmo:** I just think that's so cool to the point where someone, you know, a listener enjoys the pod to the point where they print out a sticker, put it on their car. That's incredible. That's incredible. And, and for. Lizard Gabe to see that on another listener's car is just fantastic.
I'm actually
**Senator:** going to put out a challenge to our listeners. Any listener who sends us a photo of our logo on their bumper, we're going to send them a special stick.
**Gizmo:** That's a great, I like it. Great idea. That's perfect. I'll double down on that. I'll double down on that when we're at PCA in March. Yes. In Las Vegas.
If we see anyone wearing lizard merch. [01:04:00] Or we see a bumper sticker, we will come prepared to deliver on Senator's promise. Oh boy, you better
**Bam Bam:** get those boxes ready. I'm
**Gizmo:** ready. I'm ready. We will deliver. It is amazing to see lizards in the wild and I can't wait. I can't wait to have this experience. Seeing another car with a bumper sticker on it.
That's so cool. So that's awesome. So if the lizard who, uh, Put that bumper sticker on their car, shoot, shoot us an email with a picture of it. Cause we'd love to see it in greater detail and tell us what you did and uh, tell us what you're smoking. So boys, it's time to move into the ratings tonight. First up is the Brugal Extra Viejo Rum from the Dominican Republic.
You guys ready to do the uh, formal liquor rating on this thing? Yeah. Bam Bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** While I'm out, I would like to have had a sip before my rating. We can fix that. Okay. But as you're delivering that bottle over, I will tell you, for 30, for this, this spirit to be reminiscent to a Santiago 20, which is over 150, [01:05:00] this drink's incredibly smooth, very sophisticated.
I happen to love that it's a dryer. less sweet of a, of a, of a delivery. I'm giving this a 10. There's just no way I can rate this lower than a 10 because this bottle I can take down myself. And that's it. I agree. And feel perfectly fine.
**Gizmo:** All right, Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, this is tough. I think Bam's just raised the bar.
I was definitely at a nine, but I think it does deserve a ten considering the price point. Very easy to drink. Um, you know, the low, the low proof count, it was, uh, it's fantastic. I think I'll give it a ten as well. Yeah. And I'm not even a big rum guy. So this is very, very enjoyable. But
**Bam Bam:** you've had, you've had rum in Cuba
**Pagoda:** with this.
Yeah, I have. Yeah. And I like, I like the Havana, uh, the Havana
**Gizmo:** Club Seven. Yeah. I like the entire Havana, you know, club offering, as well as Santiago. I think it's all excellent. So, yeah, for me, the
**Bam Bam:** Santiago is an elevated
**Gizmo:** experience. Yeah, the Santiago 20, I [01:06:00] think, does, does edge this for sure. But even
**Bam Bam:** the Santiago 11 is quite an experience.
**Gizmo:** I totally agree. Yeah, for 30
**Senator:** bucks.
**Pagoda:** It's crazy. You know, that's what I pay for a drink in the city. It's ridiculous.
**Gizmo:** Senator.
**Senator:** I mean, I'm just blown away. I mean, again, you know, we've talked about with cigars, how we'll socially be smoking a cigar in our lounge or elsewhere. And you have a great experience and then you kind of smoke that cigar under the microscope here and you maybe feel a little bit differently about it.
I was worried with this rum because I had this socially with some of our members at our lounge and I loved it. And I said to myself, and I, and I had plenty of it and I said, you know, maybe it wasn't as good as I remember, but it's definitely worth doing on the podcast. And the fact that I'm sitting here under the microscope feeling just as strongly as I did that day, it is absolutely a 10.
It's one of the best rums I have had, period. The price [01:07:00] point, as everyone said, is just outrageous. I would pay double or triple for this and not at all feel like I'm getting ripped off in any way, shape, or form. Um, Bam said this and I couldn't agree more. You know, there is a ton of merit to this being a drier rum.
It is not easy to do that. I mean, rum is sugarcane. It is inherently sweet. How they've done that, I have no idea, but it really works well. And, uh, it has utility in every setting. I mean, before dinner, after dinner, in the afternoon, I mean, literally any time I could enjoy this rum. I'm just so thrilled we found this because we're going to have to get more.
And
**Gizmo:** you don't need ice at all. No, no ice at
**Senator:** all. That's the other crazy thing. Extraordinary. No ice. And the fact that this bottle, we've got four guys here who drink and the bottle's empty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We, we've had seven guys here with a spirit and it's, we don't [01:08:00] crush the bottle. Correct. Four guys.
That's how good this stuff is. I can't wait to get another
**Gizmo:** one of these. I totally agree. I mean, to your point about, you know, drinking this and the impact, like I don't feel. That it's hitting me hard. I don't feel that kind of hangover, like, is coming. Like, it drinks so well. And, you know, I'm not gonna repeat everything he just, that Senator just said, or you guys just said.
The thing that, for me, so I'm at a 10 for sure. Absolutely a 10. I've been since I first sipped it. The thing that really validates that for me, even in comparison to some of the other great rums we've had, is the value. Is knowing that you can get this bottle for 30 and compare it to Santiago 20, which we did on one of the Cuba Recap episodes, we give like you said, it's like a five times the price or six times the price.
The fact that this is a 30 bottle and is drinking comparably to that. Yeah. And is pairing so well with cigars. And when we light up a cigar after we [01:09:00] finished recording tonight, you know, some of us are going to probably smoke a Cuban. Some might smoke a Padron, whatever it may be, knowing that this is going to pair perfectly with any of those is really, really a high merit for this spirit.
Now,
**Bam Bam:** I don't think we've come across a cigar or a spirit. Ever, that gives us the value that we're getting here. I agree with you. I don't think we've experienced that yet.
**Gizmo:** Cigars, yes. No.
**Senator:** I mean, the Oliva V
**Gizmo:** Lancero, for sure. This is in line with the Oliva V. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** and we gave that a 7, so that's, that's an, you're right, correct.
It's close. It's close. I mean,
**Senator:** the, the other thing, I'm sorry, let's not forget, you know, why, I think many of us love this rum is the, the Cuban origin story with this rum. Right. And in the founder learning how to make rum in Cuba, and then obviously bringing that over to Dominican. I would not be surprised if Havana club seven had to score close to, or at a 10.
**Gizmo:** So the Havana club seven year we did on episode 74, which was the second, uh, [01:10:00] that was the El Aguito episode. 9.
**Senator:** 8. Wow. Wow. I mean, I say that because that in Cuba is 20 a bottle, even duty free in the airport when Pagoda and I were in Panama now founded for 25 in the airport. That's an insane value. It is.
But this is honestly it needs it, bro. Maybe
**Bam Bam:** we were very enthusiastic that night. But this trumps that spirit. I'm sorry. No, but
**Senator:** look, we can say we're enthusiastic. For that to be a 20 bottle, this is a 30, 35 bottle. Like, the value of both is tremendous for what they deliver. But this does edge it out. And that's why it's also a little bit more expensive.
**Gizmo:** So the other one, too, that we mentioned we did on episode 76, the Santiago de Cuba 20, aligns with this at a 10. So the former Licorating Boys on the Bregol Extra Viejo tonight is a flat 10. 0. Incredible. In line with that Santiago de Cuba 20 that we did on episode 76, which again, it comes down to value. I mean, it's, it's, it's really, really performed brilliantly for 30.
You can't beat it.
**Bam Bam:** [01:11:00] The only difficult thing is you can't have the domestic version of that. So getting your hands on that bottle is not easy. Let's also
**Senator:** say this. This is what I've heard. We haven't tried. Let's try. We gotta try. So, we're gonna source a bottle from Bottle, uh, Bottle King, I'm not sure if they have it.
But I know Total Wine does. Okay. And let's compare it. We should
**Gizmo:** do that. The Bottle King bottles actually have a little bit of plume on them. A little bit of age. That's what you want on a bottle. Well, you can wipe it off.
**Senator:** Just wipe it right into your glass.
**Gizmo:** So boys, are you ready to do the formal lizard rating on the Arturo Fuente Vintage 1960 Series Rare Pink in Signature? Our pairing tonight. Rooster, you're up. Yeah,
**Rooster:** so, I mean, this cigar, it doesn't quite match the hype. You know, the flavors don't match the hype. There's so much hype about the rare pink.
They create these special boxes. They're all decorated. They're pink. It's got a beautiful, you know, double band. [01:12:00] It's an ornate band. But the flavor is lacking. It's not quite there. It kind of makes me want more out of this cigar, which it didn't deliver. So, for that reason It's a six.
**Gizmo:** Oh, wow. All right, Senator.
So
**Senator:** I'm at a seven and. The reason I'm at a seven. So I actually smoked this pretty far down, like bam. And I, for me, I did not get any rough edges throughout this cigar. So I do think it's smooth. I, I think, you know, my just guess as to why there's some hype around this. I think if you're a Fuente smoker, if you like the Fuente profile, which skews on the milder side.
I think you like this and this has got more flavor than many Fuentes cigars have. That's true. So that's probably kind of a shock to the system of, wow, much more flavor than I normally expect out of a Fuente, regular production line. But the problem is in its attempt to deliver more flavor, it just doesn't do it in a [01:13:00] defined way that you're really able to enjoy and appreciate each of the notes that I'm sure they intended for us to experience, but just gets lost in the mix.
The more you kind of smoke this cigar, you know, it doesn't get any better as you smoke it, right? The sign of a great cigar, you know, it actually gets better and you want more even after you're done with the cigar. Typically you'll get an
**Bam Bam:** improvement in richness, right? As you go through
**Senator:** it. Exactly. And so with this, for me, you know, I give it a seven because.
Would I smoke it again if someone handed it to me? Sure. I'm not going to be, there's nothing that was offensive about the cigar. It's just, am I going to actually actively seek this out and pursue it? No, because there are countless other cigars at this price point, even below it, and certainly above it, that deliver a much more defined and memorable flavor profile that I would pursue.
So, you know, it's a noble cause. I love the whole breast cancer tie, but, um, I think it's a seven for me, just a soft recommend.
**Rooster:** It's also the finish is very dry.[01:14:00]
**Gizmo:** So for me, it's also i'm with rooster. This is a six for me. Wow. It started at a seven, maybe an eight And very quickly fell off the cliff Uh, I I was very frustrated with the combustion throughout as I mentioned a few times Uh, I, I thought that very, very explicitly affected the flavor for me. I did not think that it was well made.
Uh, and unfortunately I thought that it could have been way better. And, and for my expectation of Fuente is it should have been way better. And I don't think that this cigar stacks up to the classic Hemingway line in the way that it should at even a 12 price point. You know, this is, this, this is only an hour, 15 minutes, cigar, 75 minutes cigar, and it just did not perform well for me.
So I didn't like the flavor. I didn't like the combustion. Um, and it really disappointed me. So I'm, I'm at a six
**Rooster:** also to any listener who wants to try this, you have to cut. Quite a bit [01:15:00] of the cigar at the end. I mean, normally you would cut like one eighth of an inch. You have to go a little deeper.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, so it depends.
Because otherwise the draw is not
**Senator:** going to be there. That's why I honestly would recommend a larger ring gauge in this
**Bam Bam:** cigar. Yeah, I would try a larger ring gauge. But I think you start off with an eighth of an inch as we've always professed. And then take a little bit more as you go through it. Right.
As you need to.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Yeah. Pagoda. Yeah. So I've been between a six and a seven. I think, uh, from, uh, um, a positive, uh, perspective, uh, I really enjoyed the tea notes in the, in the beginning, which was, uh, you know, somewhat reminiscent of a flavor profile, which I really, really like. But having said that, uh, like is I had to light the cigar up quite a few times.
I had to take a really deep cut, uh, into the cigar. And then, after the first third, I think, uh, you know, it was pretty much flat for me. Uh, with, with those very reasonably consistent, you know, muddled flavors. Uh, although, on the other hand, Is it an oxymoron?
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it is reasonably [01:16:00] consistent. So
**Pagoda:** it's flat, meaning it's, there's no, there's no development of the cigar.
I love the flavor. Yeah. You know,
**Gizmo:** so it's muddled the entire way through, but it's
**Bam Bam:** reasonably
**Gizmo:** consistent. It's actually perfectly described. It is an oxymoron. Yeah,
**Pagoda:** it is. Uh, but you know, I've been smoking right to the end, so it is definitely a smokable cigar, I guess, but, uh, something I'm not going to pursue.
**Gizmo:** So what's your rating? It's a six.
**Bam Bam:** That's important. Bam Bam. So I've been at a mild recommend the very first time I had the cigar. I did think it was worthy to review it because of its fame and how many people pursue the cigar. But I thought the first two thirds for me were really enjoyable. And then the fruit notes for me carried all the way through to that point.
But then it did get a little bit bolder for me, just a little bit. But it did get muddled in that last third, which, you know, I've had that same experience the two previous times that I've had it. So I'm at a seven
**Gizmo:** at the beginning was definitely better. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** I liked the first two [01:17:00] thirds.
**Gizmo:** Worked for me.
All right, boys. The former lizard rating on the Arturo Fuente vintage 1960 series rare pink in signature is a 6. 4, which is not great. Not a recommend. So let's compare that to some of the other Fuente we've done on the podcast. We'll start, unfortunately for this cigar with the Don Carlos, I have the shark on episode 12, which was a 9.
9. That's a holy
**Bam Bam:** grail
**Gizmo:** cigar. Holy grail. Not a good way to start for this. The Opus X perfection 888 on episode 31 got a 6. 6, a little bit higher than this. Actually. The Hemingway short story on episode 55 got a 7. 0 and the. identical cigar to this in the Hemingway line scored eight points higher on episode 39 at a 7.
2. Okay. The other two I want to mention, because we talked about it a little bit, was the Ashton VSG, which Carlito blended for Ashton. On episode 51, we did the [01:18:00] illusion, which was a major hit at an 8. 8. And on episode 97, we did the torpedo at an 8. 0. So this falls certainly at the weakest of all the Fuentes that we've done on the podcast which is unfortunate.
I had high hopes for this tonight.
**Senator:** Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll say this. So I felt the opposite. I actually did not have high expectations for the cigar coming in. But what's the most disappointing for me is having smoked it. This could have been a great cigar. Like the last third from a strength perspective is exactly kind of the medium full strength I'm looking for.
But like everyone said, the flavor was just muddled. It just wasn't delivering what we wanted. So it's just a shame because I don't associate Fuente with medium full, like a almost Padron like strength. That's true. But the last third had it just the flavor was not there to
**Gizmo:** me. You know, it could have been a seven for me if the combustion was more consistent.
Like that's really what took it from a soft [01:19:00] recommend to an I'm not going to ever reach for this cigar again is the fact that when I have to fight a cigar, especially a 12 Arturo Fuente cigar, that's the end of it for me. It's
**Bam Bam:** strange. I didn't have to relight mine at all.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I just had real combustion issues the whole way through.
You know, we all did. I did. I did too. All right, boys. So the Bergall Extra Viejo scored a 10. 0 tonight. And our cigar, the Arturo Fuente Vintage 1960 Series Rare Pink in signature got a 6. 4. The rum was the star of the show. What a combo. And like you said, Senator, we need to find the domestic version of this and rate that for the listener.
Yeah. The one that you can find it at the big box retailers. We need to do that so that we
**Senator:** can see how it compares. I'm optimistic. The reason I say that there are a lot of rums in particular from the Caribbean that for many years, there was always kind of a tale of you have to get it [01:20:00] there. Or you have to get a duty free.
It's not the same in the States. And my experience has been that in recent years, that that for some rums has changed where the version you get in the U S is the same that you get there. I mean, for instance, you know, we did Appleton estate, 12 year, uh, Jamaican rum. That was always the tail. You have to have it there.
It's not the same here. And having had it here first and then having it in Jamaica when I was there last year. It was the same and I think that like, finally, they're distributing the same stuff and there's not this weird difference in what's happening. I hope that's the case with this because the feedback I'm getting, I know that that's from bottles that they've tried, I'm sure, 10, 20 years ago.
Sure.
**Gizmo:** Well, I hope that's the case, boys. Yeah. Alright, great conversation tonight. Great rum. Mediocre cigar. Yes, sir. And we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website. Lounge lizards, pod. com that's lounge lizards, p o [01:21:00] d.
com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking. Email us. Hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.