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Social Justice - A Conversation
Unknown Speaker 0:00
You're listening to locally produced programming created in KU NV studios on public radio K, u and v. 91.5. Hi, I'm Charles Stanton. I'm on the faculty of the Honors College of UNLV and the Boyd School of Law.
Unknown Speaker 0:18
I'm Lana weatherald. I'm a third year law student and welcome to social justice, social
Unknown Speaker 0:22
justice to conversation conversation.
Unknown Speaker 0:28
Good evening, everybody. Happy Thursday, once again. So we open our show with a fortunately professor, not a another school shooting, we're gonna knock on wood here because there's still hours left in the day. But we are going to open with some shakeups around media. So you know, we're show largely about media and politics and two major news corporations let go of two major talking heads this past week. So that's Fox News with Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon at CNN. And both situations seem to be shrouded in some level of mystery. I mean, we got both kind of kind of know what happened there. But it seems like neither have released many details about what exactly went down in either case. So with that, I'm gonna pass it to the professor and get his thoughts on it. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:11
Well, I think, I think in the Tucker Carlson case, it was it was certainly misogynistic views, plus a ton of many things other than that, I think personal attacks on the people who own Fox media, the owners, the revelation of redacted text messages, and other messages to people in fox that were completely inappropriate or racist, or what have you. Right. And I think that he believed that he was bigger than the network.
Unknown Speaker 1:52
He was fine. A little bit too close to the song. Yeah. And
Unknown Speaker 1:55
I think that I think he did a lot of harm, though. And his time on the air, because I think a lot of people really took him at his word. He really believed what he said. And I think that, you know, in all this talk about the insurrection, and Donald Trump and, you know, the various people who worked with Donald Trump, in the White House to ferment this upheaval, the media, particularly, particularly Fox, has a large responsibility there. I think that, you know, there, there was a certain point when they knew that these claims of, you know, had no merit and regular rigged election, he had no merit. And they just should have said, listen, the guy he lost the election, Joe Biden is the president and now would have tamped down a lot of this. But because there's there are alternative networks to Fox that they were afraid the viewership would go to if they said stuff like this. They just went with it. And they just went with it until the point where you actually have this upheaval in the country. And then the question is, how do you come back from that? Because even if you even if you made an apology, as part of a settlement, which they didn't do, but even even if you do that, right, you have so brainwashed these people that they're not going to believe anything. So
Unknown Speaker 3:26
is a way of life. You know, I went and visited up north and when I tell you, Fox News is on every television, Fox News is on every radio I mean it is it is a way of life it is it is very much what they do you know how some people like to golf and some people like to watch sports and how somebody they like Fox News, I mean, that it really is something but here's the thing about Tucker Carlson, Tucker Carlson was palyed palatable, I think to people that just were normally apathetic to politics, to see a Tucker Carlson clip, I think is engaging and I think was and this was a mistake by by Fox and you know, God bless them glad they got rid of who I believe to be their most popular evening hosts the only one that was still pulling any kind of viewership, you know, no one watches Hannity anymore. So I really I mean, I think this was a mistake by them, Newsmax will probably pick this guy up and give them a fat payday and I think he'll still be platformed and I think he'll still be allowed to spread things he doesn't believe in because he's a conservative grifter. Like they all are Grifters, but it wasn't mistake by Fox because Tucker Carlson is charming and Tucker Carlson was able to articulate what I think a lot of these people feel on their insides and he was able to do it well and do it in a shiny way and package it in this product that they all want to consume. And I this was a mistake and let's you know, well let's let's see how it plays out as they continue to lose viewership.
Unknown Speaker 4:43
Yeah, well, it's you know, Don Lemon is another case.
Unknown Speaker 4:48
Donlin is a weird one. Yeah, if you didn't see he did release. You know, Tucker did not really come out with a statement but Don did it but it was an odd one was a weird little Twitter post that was like, strangely in a strange font string. each caption, and it didn't say much. And it does not seem like it was, you know, clearly not amicable. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 5:04
Well, I just don't understand though. Right? You he left, the 10 o'clock hour. And of course, what killed CNN was Chris Cuomo is departure, because he was enormously popular. And he was the lead into Don Lemon show. Okay, so he's not pulling the ratings they put him on in the morning. They put him on in the morning with two women. Yeah. I mean, how stupid Could you be? Right? I mean, you're not gonna insult the people who you're doing the broadcast with. And a lot of the people who watch the broadcast, so you don't you don't you don't get into anything like that, you know, Nikki Haley. And you can even there was even a way out of it by saying, Nikki Haley has been around for a long time in politics. People want a different face. And just leave it like that. Just leave it like that. So he was the second guy and then the guy. That guy Jeff Snell, who was the head of Universal Studios. He was forced out too. And that was because he had that he had an inappropriate whatever inappropriate means relationship with one of the employees but but universal had another guy whose name was Ron Meyer, who was was who was way back before this, right. It was like one of the kings of Hollywood. He had worked at CAA for a long time with my Gove. It's, and he was like this guy who, you know, was like the overlord of the Overlord. And, you know, he was fired. So you have so many of these men, man, I
Unknown Speaker 6:44
mean, it's like think, right that you know, they're untouchable and that this kind of thing will never happen to them. And then here we go. But the vast majority of them Tucker, Don Lemon, either they will find jobs. These people will never go starving, I don't believe but I do think it's interesting how diamond does and now certain talking heads and media figures can be an RN are viewed as replaceable. Probably for the better because I think a lot of them are up to very nefarious, I don't think Tucker's the worst of them. I don't think Don Lemon is the worst of them. I think there's worse out there. So hopefully, you know, it's good to see some people held accountable for their misdeeds right, and if nobody else's. I find
Unknown Speaker 7:22
it interesting, though, that I think there's a double standard there. Because if you look at when Roger Ailes was fired at Fox, and Gretchen Carlson was the prime mover in that, and then Megan Kelly, and then of course, well, I
Unknown Speaker 7:39
will say Megyn Kelly never really found a job.
Unknown Speaker 7:41
Well, well, well, well, no, no attack on podcasts was as many podcasters out there. But but but it is to say that things dried up for her right things dried up for Gretchen Carlson, I guess you're right there there will be there will be there will be a network that will be somebody who pick up all these rejects, who will pick up Tucker Carlson, certainly there will be somebody probably, who will pick up Don Lemon, but these women who complain justly, for like egregious behavior growing over decades. You know, you can see why women are afraid to come forward. Right? Because the not only the fact that you you face all this attacks from people on social media and other places, but just as far as your career is concerned, your career is basically destroyed. Most of the time, most of the time. I mean, Megyn Kelly Megyn Kelly was a moderator of a presidential debate and and asked, you know, uncomfortable questions. And from those uncomfortable questions, her career that made a complete downward slide. Gretchen Carlson the same thing Gretchen Carlson was on in the evening. And she said a few things that were not with what the network network wanted to hear, right. And then she was on in the afternoon, and then she wasn't on at all. So it's a really difficult thing. You know, it was it was you know, and in reviewing the she said movie with which we were doing yesterday in the class. These women had had a lot of courage that came forward with hybrid Harvey Weinstein, they really did. Because this guy, man, he, he destroyed people, he destroyed lives, he destroyed careers. He really was a bad evil person. And was just that, that the times basically gave total support there to the writers and allowed them to, you know, to really pursue this. And you really need somebody like that behind you to do this as an independent person to go out there and basically try to get to the truth is is really a scary proposition today. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 9:57
well, no, and I think you know, I'll credit we're proud do so much of this is just on the heels of the metoo moment. And you know, 10 years ago, yeah, people didn't get fired for sexual harassment, they never did see the light of day, nobody did care. And I do think we're seeing a slight shifting of the tides. I think women, by and large, are still scared to report and as they probably should be, but I do think we're seeing some level of accountability that certainly was never there. And I do think that it's getting better, not worse, which is one of the few things in this country, I can say that for. So I, you know, I don't want to be all doom and gloom here. I do think we were reaching a state where people feel more comfortable report, they feel more comfortable that their report will then lead to direct action. And then those people that do end up, you know, receiving credible reports of sexual assault ultimately, don't end up in positions of power as frequently as they once did. And so I think, hey, credit where credit is due? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 10:49
well, I mean, you know, we can segue from that into E. Jean Carroll, of course, right? It was bringing the lawsuit in Manhattan against Trump. And, but this was one of many things. Right? See, the thing that I always amazes me is, this guy was doing this stuff for years, Harvey Weinstein was doing this stuff for years. And it was interesting is when when you see when you look at the she said movie, where they're talking to the lawyers, and the guys basically saying, Well, you know, these were men of a certain generation, what does that mean? Well,
Unknown Speaker 11:28
you know, I, I mean, I kind of guessed, though, they, a lot of them, a lot of them were women beaters, and a lot of them were, you know, people that and if it wasn't direct physical abuse, the vast majority of men of a certain generation, so I sort of get the comment, we're okay with a level of emotional abuse and domestic, it's sort of issues at home where it was this woman is not capable of anything other than child rearing in my dinner, and I really feel I see that, you know, I see that with people of a certain generation. And then, you know, all this stuff coming out about all of these actors who had weird sexual assault things coming out. Like I just heard Jack Nicholson paralyzed a chick I never knew that little did. Great. No, I just think that there is a certain thing to be said about men of a certain generation. And I think some of it is what I just talked about before this level of accountability in the past decade, maybe two decades, that was not there. And a lot of it in the past five years because of the me to movement. So I do I do think men of a certain generation were different and scarier, and things were less public. And it wasn't the girl got out her cell phone and tweeted about her man beater or the girl got out a video and was able to record these things. So I do think we do have a changing of the tides in that men can't be as abusive as they once were, just by way of like videophones, which which sounds a little bit crass and a little bit rudimentary to just say, Oh, we got cameras now. They can't beat us as much. But yeah, they can't. I do think men of a certain generation were that way. And I do think, you know, Donald Trump is just part of that old guard of people that were used to women being subservient and behaving in subservient ways. And then they were viewed as subservient. So I think
Unknown Speaker 13:09
I think that I think that I believe this for a long time. I think that ties into the abortion thing too. i There are, you know, in the always in the always movie, there are some people who sincerely believe abortion is wrong. From from a religious
Unknown Speaker 13:29
Yes. And so I find it hard. I don't I don't usually entertain the argument with people that believe it's murder. What am I going to do to convince you if you believe I'm, you know,
Unknown Speaker 13:39
they since they sincerely believe that I
Unknown Speaker 13:41
be capable of murder if I had an abortion, right, I don't I can't have that conversation. However,
Unknown Speaker 13:45
well, I can't, you can't. In other words, I can't. You're not going to change their mind. I believe that they sincerely believe I
Unknown Speaker 13:52
wouldn't want it. Right, I would feel disingenuous, and I would be trying to, you know, harbor different beliefs to get rid of their own religious beliefs. And I'm a freedom of religion girl. That's what your religion tells you to believe, whether I think it's heinous or not whatever. But that's not what the vast majority think first of all, the vast majority of them had little girlfriends Republican are not or themselves if they're a female, Republican, use that pill. Use the abortion pill, it's a lot more common. I mean, I think the percentages on it, I don't want to just spit ball here, but they're high of people that have somehow or couples or individuals that have needed access to those pills. The problem is, is that too many women are now using it. Instead of you know, having this on this child usually out of wedlock or young. And it's it's the idea of freedom. It's the idea that they can become single independent, not need kids idea of women, much like we were just talking about in the last 10 minutes outside of the idea of child rearing, they're not child mirrors anymore, their career girls, there are women that do do something beyond staying to the home and being tied to their value to a man as a family unit. Yeah, that's what it really is. It's how these women can get abortions and then they don't have to be stuck. that'll hit home with me. That's really what I think it is truly,
Unknown Speaker 15:04
I think I think, too, as you were saying, I think it's a way to keep women under control. I don't think it I mean, as far as the child aspect of it, the protection of children, our record of child protection is abysmal. Very bad, I hold it, there's all kinds of terrible things are being done to children and everything. Right. And and as you say, a lot of these people who are the ones talking about restricting women's right to choose, have had personal experiences in their own lives, where they completely change that viewpoint, because it affects them personally. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So So that's, that's an interesting, that's an interesting thing that that, that you brought up. And of course, you know, it's interesting also to see how our political system has changed so much regarding basic human rights, and one of our rights, supposedly, in our country, is freedom of speech. And we're seeing this in Montana now with this woman who's an advocate for, for trends for transgender young people. Okay. And the the position that she has basic, which has been supported by the American Society of pediatrics and a number of papers, is that children and young people with these issues, issues about transgender identity, need medical care, and they need all kinds of psychological care and everything to help them. Now that seems like a very humane common sense, no argument about position. But this is a woman who has who has advocated for it. And when you think about it, when you think about it, and let's leave the transgender part of it aside, that in the legislature, of basically 98 people, this is the one person who's speaking about this. And I'm saying to myself, transgender or not, there's something radically wrong there. When you've got one person out of basic 100 people, and they're the only ones the only person who sees as a human social justice, humanity issue. And then when she speaks out about it about the ramifications of not getting these children and young people care, which had been time and time again, been verified by the American Association of Pediatrics, what do we do? We remove her from the floor of the legislature. So she's unable to speak in public? I mean, come on here.
Unknown Speaker 17:41
It's their thing. It's their stick. They've picked trans people. Yeah, they've picked them. And I don't know if it's because the community is so small, because they've made it seem so big, but it really is just a very small subset of our population that identifies as transgender and the you know, it's not they can't pick on someone their own size. I'm talking about, you know, right wing, because that's usually where this is coming from in general and media sources in general. I don't know why this is their thing. This is what they've picked. And it's I've never seen something so militant, so bizarre. So it's, you know, you then then you see these polls, and the vast majority of them don't even know what transpires. Yeah, it's like, so they're like picking this imaginary battle with with a group that struggles to get by, regardless of their intervention, or, you know, supposed intervention. And it's, it's so I wish I could understand it, Professor, I wish I could articulate why I think they hold so much vitriol for this one particular group of people. It's, it's some of the worst stuff I've ever seen or said about these people. I mean, and it's, it's, it's so it's so wrong, because it's it's just I can't understand it. And I don't know why they pick trans people I can't imagine. Other than I think it's a small group of people that you know, struggles financially and struggles with medical care and struggles, you know, day to day. So that's they, that's what they pick. That's their target. But, man, oh, man, do I wish that they would pick on someone their own size.
Unknown Speaker 19:11
I was talking with somebody last night. And this was I was kind of surprising. It was a woman. Yeah, we were talking and this person says you have to understand the mindset of a lot of these people. A man is a man and a woman as a woman. And they can't go past that. Right. It is just something that's ingrained in them. They they don't see any kind of gender fluidity. They don't see any any of those things.
Unknown Speaker 19:40
But I don't I mean, there were like, people were cross dressing in movies. I mean, dating back 100 years ago, for the beginning of film, people were cross dressing. And you know, RuPaul was handing out awards in the 90s at the American Music Awards, and this, you know, this isn't that new.
Unknown Speaker 19:57
Yeah, this is not no news.
Unknown Speaker 19:59
Why now? And why, why this? And why are you so militant? And why is it? Why is it the thing? I mean, it's just so mind boggling to me because they have nothing else to do and then pick on trans people. It is so which Oh, that it really gets me because it's the only thing I can't I can't understand when it takes them to have a trans kid that have empathy or so it's just so bizarre.
Unknown Speaker 20:20
Well, it's, it's, it's like what's going on in Florida now, basically, where you have an administration that wants to limit the teaching history. They want to limit what books children are available to read. They want to take over colleges, and change those colleges to their ideology. They want to punish corporations who have tried to back LGBT rights in the you see all these things going on. But ultimately, ultimately, though, when you talk about Ron DeSantis, or you talk about Donald Trump, or you talk about all these people, ultimately, the question is in our country, why? Why? Why are so many people? Okay with that? Right? What is that mentality?
Unknown Speaker 21:17
It is so mind boggling. I mean, people that I believe to be intelligent people I have taken advice from both, you know, in life and academically have been sucked into this. Yeah. And believe it wholeheartedly. And, you know, I just, well, I'll give you I'm from Florida, I lived in Florida for many, many, many years. And I see nothing of value left anymore. I used to have, you know, such a belief in the higher education system, because I, you know, thought that's what made me special. Well, that's, you know, that's down that I used to believe that the public school system, especially for you in the right neighborhoods, it did sort of foster and keep the right kids, there's nothing left. And then you know, 10 years ago to it was semi affordable to buy a home there. And because there are no income taxes, the middle class could live a little bit better in Florida than maybe they could in the northeast, or, you know, parts of the Midwest. So I did I did have this, there is not a thing redeemable left about that state at all. And God bless anybody who flocks there. And God bless them. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 22:19
no, it's I just the book thing is like, really, really disturbing, though. Oh, and
Unknown Speaker 22:25
when I talked to people from Florida, and I've talked to many, what you should see the books that they've banned. Doesn't matter what the books are banned, it doesn't matter what they say. If a kid reaches for them, and can somehow learn and somehow, you know, look, it doesn't matter what the books and your kid has access to worst books on the internet. If your kid has an iPhone, iPad, they can find worse on the internet than whatever they could find in their, you know, elementary school library. I promise. It's
Unknown Speaker 22:52
not it's not usually people who would say are well read. No. And that was this not people say well, I've read Catcher in the Rye and I've read, you know, Aleta read one of these things. This is outrageous. And these are people who basically don't read and they want they seem to want the next generation to be as ignorant as as they are. There it is. Bingo. And that's the answer that you got a bunch of people go I don't want to condemn everybody. But there are there's a section of people in the country they don't want to they don't want to know truth. They don't want to learn they're not intellectually curious people.
Unknown Speaker 23:27
Right. Truth equals liberalism equals indoctrination. Equals Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. They have associated Learning in Higher Education with like a liberal indoctrination. And they are, you cannot like sever those ties. Well,
Unknown Speaker 23:41
that's how sure that ties in now to the AP studies thing was what was black history and black culture, we're now the College Board now is going to go back from where they were sort of agreeing with the Santas, they're gonna go back and they're gonna try to restore
Unknown Speaker 24:00
good those racist to do something right, the racist at the College Board, let me add, they're gonna
Unknown Speaker 24:04
try to restore what was the original intent of the course, which was to teach the history of our country that rarely, if ever has been taught, you
Unknown Speaker 24:16
know what, I'll get what I'm gonna take 60 seconds on the board. The College Board knows right that the vast majority of the people that they are charging for these exams, which can range anywhere from 100 to 200 300 $400, for AP exams for the SATs for the AC T, are taking a lot of the times if they're low, or even middle class can take these exams a once. So you got one time to prep as best as you can. And then the kids that will take it 234 or five times those are rich kids. So who's going to get get them placed in these better schools? It's not going to be low income. It's not going to be people with bad socioeconomic backgrounds. It's going to be rich whites. That's where the College Board benefits and always has and always will. And I have such a problem with the College Board. pasteurizing Oh, well, we're going to put this class in. Oh, well, well, yeah. Well, and I'm sure that clear plan all along was to I have this African Studies class, and they might have just been a parrot into Ron DeSantis, or, you know, appeased him momentarily. And then this was going to be the plan all along, because they have a history of being really racist and being really bad and being. So I have more problems with the College Board than I can name. I'm not, you know, glad they did this, whatever, but it's not going to the College Board is a part of the systematic problems we have in our higher education system. And I think they are one of the institutions that are most racist until they start keeping it free, if not have some sort of waiver system, some sort to keep low income kids from having the same opportunities from high income earning. College. Well, let
Unknown Speaker 25:39
me let me throw something happy in here. Sure. And that is the Catholic Church. kind of shocking, right, that the bishops Synod now, according to the edict from Pope Francis, must include at least a minimum of 40 women, wow, who will be able to vote on matters of faith and morals? And I guess other things that these bishops usually decide. I think that's kind of momentous, well, long overdue, but better late than never better late than never. And I always say, I always I've always thought this that I think if women had been given a much bigger role in the church, yes. Particularly, you know, in positions of authority, yes. This child abuse case would have been marched and managed. No, no, no, no.
Unknown Speaker 26:26
Yeah. No, I agree with you. And I think I know, I think generally women in the church, it would be winning. Not that I want to, you know, give any power to the Republican Party. But I think sort of women, especially young women, Gen X, sort of started it, but it's become even more omnipresent in these later generations are not hyper religious. Single women, especially are one of the least religious groups in this country. So I think there would be some benefit, especially for political groups that benefit from religiosity to bring more women in. So I, you know, I'm sure this is sent miss my political movement. And but I do think, you know, religious women are sort of lost now, a single religious woman is not as likely as it was, you know, 3040 years ago at all. So I think a changing of the tides in that direction would would probably help, you know, the right in some way and the voting base that has been lost to certainly single white women. I think that'd be interesting. Yeah. Interesting. How that would play out long term to a party that I feel has lost. Yeah. Well, he, he and white women, he
Unknown Speaker 27:27
he's actually Francis's has tried to be a modernizing for us. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Against a tremendous opposition from the established way of things.
Unknown Speaker 27:38
If he was the first gay friendly ice, Pope, wasn't he? He was
Unknown Speaker 27:43
that and he was. He was also the first pope that really articulated, not looking down on other people who, you know, might have committed what the church considered a sin, right, but rather said basically, that we're all sinners, and that basically, it's a higher authority that judges us. It's not for me, he said it as far as the gay thing. He said, You know, it's not for me to judge you and help the person saw, that's not my thing. I knew I knew a priest one time and it was very interesting. He was a very good man. He said, He says, I'm just a priest. I'm just a man. He says, You don't you don't worship me or idolize a priest, or anyway, you do pray and you hope that God will help you. But I'm a person, I'm flawed. Right? You know, and I think that got lost somewhere where they sort of those people replaced the original idea of what, you know, religion, whether it be Judaic religion or Islamic aggression, right. Have you across the board? They became gods in themselves.
Unknown Speaker 28:53
Yes. Very much. So. And then you know, we talk about these media figureheads sort of viewing themselves as being without rules and sort of above the law and fine, too close to the sun. And I think we saw a lot of that in the church. And I think that's why there is so much fundamental distrust in religion and in how that is handled, because I think, you know, younger people are now a little bit more in tuned to believing that these people aren't bigger than God and how can I be told x by my Priester? How do I know that? You know, religious circles believe X thing when I know that they're so flawed? Yeah. So I do. Yeah, I think that that's been part of why there's been a loss in religiosity, wholesale, and in these later generations that we will see as they get older. Yeah. So as we start closing out this show here, I do want to remind you guys that we're coming up on sort of the end here with me, I'm graduating law school. So as we come to our last shows, again, we would love to hear from anybody who is listening. My email address is w e t h e l one at UNLV dot Nevada, not edu. We're happy to take any last requests for our final show as we wind down here, Professor, is there anything else you'd like to close out with? Well,
Unknown Speaker 29:57
I will I will say I will say Is that? You know, and it's been a pleasure working with you all the shows that we've done together, and you're another person may fill that chair, but they will not replace you. Oh,
Unknown Speaker 30:12
that's lovely. Well, I've got faith in our youth, right. I think I think someone can be me because someone can do better than what I've done here. So with that, we will see you all not next week because I will be taking some finals and hopefully getting out of this place with a JD right. So we will see you two weeks from now for our final and last show. Thank you all for listening and we will see you in two weeks.
Unknown Speaker 30:33
Thank you and good night.
Unknown Speaker 30:34
Thank you for listening to our show. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at weather one that's w e t h e l one@nevada.unlv.edu. Or to contact Professor Charles Stanton, contact him at CHA R L E S That's Charles dot Stanton s t a n t o n@unlv.edu cn N SR
Transcribed by https://otter.ai